Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Middayexpress: Difference between revisions
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{{SPIarchive notice|Middayexpress}} |
{{SPIarchive notice|Middayexpress}} |
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{{SPIpriorcases}} |
{{SPIpriorcases}} |
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===27 November 2020=== |
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{{SPI case status|close}} |
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====Suspected sockpuppets==== |
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* {{checkuser|1=GoldenDragonHorn|master name={{#titleparts:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}}} |
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<!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--> |
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*'''Tools''': <span class="plainlinks">[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{#titleparts:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}}}&users={{urlencode:GoldenDragonHorn}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&user={{urlencode:{{#titleparts:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}}}&user={{urlencode:GoldenDragonHorn}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{#titleparts:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}}}.html User compare report]</span> <small>''Auto-generated every hour.''</small> |
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In a separate SPI case [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO/Archive#24_November_2020], behavioural evidence regarding GoldenDragonHorn being a new socking account of Middayexpress was discussed. The evidence is compelling and warrants its own SPI report so I have compiled it below. The sockmaster has demonstrated willingness and an ability to try and evade technical scrutiny, as such I am not requesting a checkuser report. Behavioural evidence below: |
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* [[WP:PRECOCIOUS|Precocious]] editing history. GoldenDragonHorn is clearly not a new editor, this is their first ever edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Somalia&diff=prev&oldid=982338812&diffmode=source]. Subsequent edits made within 15 minutes of registration confirm this [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:GoldenDragonHorn&oldid=982338899], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ragnimo&diff=prev&oldid=982340250&diffmode=source], as does the rest of their editing history [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/GoldenDragonHorn&offset=&limit=500&target=GoldenDragonHorn]. |
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* Highly unusual activity for a new account, and knowledge of various discussions taking place throughout English Wikipedia: |
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: - Joining SPI discussions concerning possible socks without prior involvement in the SPI [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=990471080&oldid=990396611&diffmode=source]. |
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: - Similarly, knowledge of and participation in Arbitration discussion on the subject of disruption caused by Middayexpress (and others) across Horn of Africa projects [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=prev&oldid=991006109&diffmode=source]. Their statement attempts to minimise damage caused by disruption e.g. "..They are literally ‘carpet-bombed’, as TomStar81 pointed out above, just to capture two banned individuals who have been active for decades...", as well as downplay the importance of behavioural evidence in cases where sockmaster has proven an ability to evade technical scrutiny (please see below). |
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* Their top 5 edited articles [https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/GoldenDragonHorn], all have Middayexpress (as well as multiple confirmed socks in some cases) as top authorship/editors: [https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Ethiopian%E2%80%93Adal_war#tool-authorship], [https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Sultanate_of_Mogadishu#top-editors], [https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Mogadishu#top-editors], [https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Somalia#tool-authorship], [https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Sultanate_of_the_Geledi#top-editors], |
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* Identical interest in "collage" files on Commons: GoldenDragon uploaded a collage file to Commons [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Mogadishu.png&diff=497814291&oldid=497397894], confirmed sock Soupforone had a similar interest in collages [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Collage_of_ethnic_groups.jpg&diff=291258511&oldid=291258472]. Another cross-wiki similarity is targeting of files related to [[Isaaq genocide]] on Commons, e.g. GoldenDragonHorn [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Deletion_requests/2020/11/26&diff=prev&oldid=515092932], images related to this article also disrupted by confirmed sock Soupforone [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Exhumed_skeletal_remains_of_victims_of_the_Isaaq_genocide.jpg&diff=prev&oldid=248251580]. |
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* Staunch opposition to the use of behavioural evidence for cases like the ones that plague the project [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990471080&diffmode=source], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990476291&diffmode=source]. Very unusual for a new editor with a registration date of 7 October 2020, almost reads as what someone previously blocked through behaviour evidence would say. This is the same stance adopted by confirmed sock Soupforone [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=next&oldid=831548274&diffmode=source], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=830331283&oldid=830331158&diffmode=source]. |
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* GoldenDragonHorn's insistence on use of technical checkuser tools only ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=prev&oldid=991381124&diffmode=source], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=991392740&oldid=991385783&diffmode=source]) is identical to Middayexpress socks e.g. Soupforone demanding only checkuser tools be used in the case [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=828775221&oldid=828739831&diffmode=source], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=830166420&oldid=830094937&diffmode=source], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=830331283&oldid=830331158&diffmode=source], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=next&oldid=831548274&diffmode=source] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=828924402&oldid=828877075&diffmode=source] (...etc). |
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* Identical preference for confrontational and lengthy walls of text in SPI cases as means of obfuscating the discussion, compare GoldenDragonHorn's comments here [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO/Archive#Comments_by_other_users_6], to confirmed sock Soupforone's here [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress/Archive#18_February_2018]. |
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* Using identical talking points to confirmed socks regarding "intimidation" and "targeting of Somali editors". Compare these statements: |
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:- GoldenDragonHorn: |
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:1) "There is clearly a witch-hunt against 'active' Somali editors, who are either blocked, intimidated or discredited by repeatedly tying them to two banned individuals who happen to be from the same background." [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990662420&diffmode=source], |
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:2) "... but this is one of the intimidation tactics I have observed before used against Somali editors" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990681530&diffmode=source], |
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:3) "... stating or highlighting this fact is not justification to 'block' a person (again more intimidation)" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990683289&diffmode=source]. |
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Compare the above to confirmed sock Soupforone's attack on Nick-D: |
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:"I am concerned that the Middayexpress user is now being used as a convenient scapegoat to slander new editors and intimidate/discourage them from editing pages related to the Horn of Africa. Moreover, I suspect that the moderator Nick-D (who is a WP:INVOLVED administrator that had at least one previous run-in with Middayexpress) or another party will try again to capitalize on this situation and attempt to block these editors on false "behavioral evidence" grounds, without Checkuser due process" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Soupforone&type=revision&diff=839310999&oldid=839310724&diffmode=source]. |
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* In addition to the "witch-hunt" against "active Somali editors" narrative, Soupforone would also repackage the same talking points around feigning concern for rights of "new editors", e.g. "''It now appears that similar [[WP:BAIT]] tactics are being used against new editors"'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Soupforone&diff=prev&oldid=839310999&diffmode=source], needless to say, the "new accounts Soupforone were concerned about (Egezal, Odriejh and Geneticanthro) were later checkuser confirmed [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress/Archive#Clerk,_CheckUser,_and/or_patrolling_admin_comments_4]. Compare Soupforone's rhetoric to GoldenDragonHorn's: "''The issue I currently have is that there are no safeguards to protect new editors with an interest in the region"'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=991006109&oldid=990969584&diffmode=source], also "''Looking if there were any existing safeguards for new editors...''" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=prev&oldid=991512298&diffmode=source]. [[User:Kzl55|Kzl55]] ([[User talk:Kzl55|talk]]) 22:22, 27 November 2020 (UTC) |
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* Supplementary off-wiki behavioural evidence: |
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: There appears to be clear off-wiki recruitment on places like Twitter e.g.: "''Be smart about it. 1st edit a few dozen unrelated Somali articles about your interests like football, films, etc then move to something more related to Somalia and then start cleaning up. This way they can't ban you on sight. Also later on join the WikiProject Somalia. Tactics''", [https://imgur.com/JvhLDvy Image link]. [https://twitter.com/Captain_Somalia/status/1294410718024994816 Link to tweet]/[https://web.archive.org/web/20200814230939/https://twitter.com/Captain_Somalia/status/1294410718024994816 Archive.org link]. |
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: GoldenDragonHorn has followed the advice above very carefully, from making edits unrelated to the Somali project to joining the WikiProject Somalia. Their first ever Wikipedia edit was to add their name to WikiProject Somalia as per instructions [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Somalia&diff=prev&oldid=982338812&diffmode=source], they also made a point to make a couple of edits out-with the project as advised e.g. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Python_(programming_language)&diff=prev&oldid=989973975], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dart_(programming_language)&diff=prev&oldid=989975745]. Soon after GoldenDragonHorn edited WikiProject Somalia, editor Ragnimo followed as well: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Somalia&diff=next&oldid=985084692&diffmode=source]. -- [[User:Kzl55|Kzl55]] ([[User talk:Kzl55|talk]]) 19:54, 29 November 2020 (UTC) |
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====<big>Comments by other users</big>==== |
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<small>''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''</small> |
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Notifying {{ping|TomStar81}} who is very familiar with this SPI file for any further input. Best regards --[[User:Kzl55|Kzl55]] ([[User talk:Kzl55|talk]]) 22:25, 27 November 2020 (UTC) |
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@[[User:Kzl55|Kzl55]] So who am I supposed to be Souperone or MiddayExpress? This is just another attempt at trying to take down an editor you consider a threat to your advocacy. I already discredited your problematic style of tying two people together when I connected you to someone else [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990820340]. Also can an admin look through these two flawed cases[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress/Archive#01_July_2020],[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress/Archive#02_April_2019], as well as my sporadic IP contribs that date back to June. |
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Additional observations, since you're moving the goal-posts: |
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*Looking if there were any existing safeguards for new editors, I came across an amazing article on Wikipedia titled: [[Wikipedia:Don't be quick to assume that someone is a sockpuppet|Don't be quick to assume that someone is a sockpuppet]], which breaks down what's going on here point by point; from the fixation on my 'first edit', which was me going legit as an ip to a real account, to the so-called authorship similarities in the most common Somali articles, to the ''guilty-before-innocent'' reverts of my edits[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Mogadishu&diff=991044075&oldid=988976600], that were discussed on talk-pages beforehand. It all reeks of [[Wikipedia:Don%27t_be_quick_to_assume_that_someone_is_a_sockpuppet#Sockophobia|Sockphobia]] |
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*SPI filer refused a CU knowing it will clear me of any wrong doing. |
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*Opted for behavioral analysis only to be pointed out below that our POVs don't even sync on the most fundamental issue behind my presence on Wikipedia, which is history. |
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*Used the [[Mogadishu]] collage as evidence, when its actually inspired by the [[Ankara]] collage, including the distinctive white lines, since I didn't know how to create a collage effect via the info-box with several images (If I had spend an hour figuring that out you probably would use that as evidence of [[Precocious]] editing). |
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*Claims a new user couldn't possibly edit so well, when in-fact my IP contribs would show my presence going back to June. I have learned programming frameworks in less time than that. |
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*Claims my talking-points are exactly like that of Souprefone yet another innocently accused editor [[User:Lad gudu|Lad gudu]] made the exact same observation[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress/Archive#01_July_2020]. |
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*Seeing that none of the above sticks, the Filer is now casting a wider net of conspiracy by citing off-wiki canvassing, yet my first edits are all Somali related, which directly contradicts the above off-wiki advice. I also directly approached a Somali editor on Wikipedia and asked if they were going to make any changes to an article that got me to sign up. If I'm working off-site why would I do it so openly on someone's talk-page? It makes no sense. -- Can an CU/clerk make a decision on this already? I'm getting completely put off from Wikipedia by this individual. I have zero interest in commenting on this farce beyond this statement, so do your thing. --[[User:GoldenDragonHorn|GoldenDragonHorn]] ([[User talk:GoldenDragonHorn|talk]]) 20:37, 29 November 2020 (UTC) |
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*Nothing more to add save that for the sake of putting to bed concerns over socking it would be a good idea to look at [[User:Ayaltimo]], [[User:Ragnimo]] and [[User:WanderingGeeljire]] to put the issues of the accounts and their collaboration with either farm to bed once and for all, as none of these accounts can possibly be this new to the site and contribute this perfectly to the site without having been on this sight for some time - by which I mean more than 6-8 weeks. [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] ([[User talk:TomStar81|Talk]]) 19:06, 28 November 2020 (UTC) |
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[[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] Actually check user cleared us we are all unrelated to eachother:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO/Archive#Clerk,_CheckUser,_and/or_patrolling_admin_comments_6] , and WanderingGeeljire and GoldenDragonHorn are proven by clerk and check user to be unrelated to eachother[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/GoldenDragonHorn/Archive#Clerk,_CheckUser,_and/or_patrolling_admin_comments] and also i have actually shown that i am infact new to editing on wiki [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990746334]: infact i don't contribute perfectly to this site and i make lots of mistakes and learn on the fly. |
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Also i gave my comment already on the Midday/sock false accusations you and Kz155 love throw at random Somali editors on the same page:[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990737042] |
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Anyways cheers. Continue the gatekeeping witch hunt as you may. [[User:Ragnimo|Ragnimo]] ([[User talk:Ragnimo|talk]]) 19:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC) |
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**{{ping|Cordless Larry}} That is fundamentally the problems with behavioral evidence: more than one person can share the same opinion. Gather enough people in place and you're bound to find those who think enough alike that they can work together in unison for a goal - good or bad - and no one would be the wiser. That's also why technical evidence is used to make the final decision, and why those who suspect a sock must lay out the evidence they have here first instead of simply blocking and tagging. We've falsely accused others in the past, and on a few occasions blocked without a significant appreciate for what happens when participants are locked out, and it is for that reason that we all come here first. Its better to air our suspicions and be informed of the outcome than to simply guess and test. In fairness here, I've never seen a Middayexpress sock edit Gunpowder articles, [[Python (programming language)]], [[Dart (programming language)]], or [[Conan O'Brien]], which does lend some credibility to the "I'm not him/them" argument being made here. All the same, the easiest way to settle this would be with a look under the hood, for which a checkuser is required and an SPI cases typically needed. [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] ([[User talk:TomStar81|Talk]]) 19:50, 28 November 2020 (UTC) |
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::*Yes, agreed on behavioural evidence - but my point below was that the comment by GoldenDragonHorn I linked to seems to be quite a different opinion to Middayexpress/Soupforone's POV regarding "Afrocentrism". [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 19:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC) |
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:::* CordlessLarry and TomStar81, we have previously seen the sockmaster pepper a few edits out with normal Middayexpress interest/POV, as well as perform unusual editing as means of evading scrutiny, and it later emerges they are checkuser confirmed. Examples of this include them trying to hide socking activity by having two socking accounts revert one another or display public disagreement, examples include Troyoleg reverting Odriejh [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Somalis&diff=prev&oldid=837710650] (both were later checkuser confirmed) and Qevoja reverting Geneticanthro (again, both confirmed socks) [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Somalis&type=revision&diff=839430372&oldid=838992078]. Thylacoop5 took this a step further by starting an SPI against socks Vukharttara and Zavaiw [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress&diff=prev&oldid=842716650], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cordless_Larry&diff=prev&oldid=842871685]. This perhaps would explain the few edits outside of Middayexpress' POV. --[[User:Kzl55|Kzl55]] ([[User talk:Kzl55|talk]]) 21:21, 28 November 2020 (UTC) |
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Im concerned that this user GoldenDragonHorn is going to encourage disruption on the platform, he seems to be coaching others and giving advice while clearly behaving like a disgruntled user who didnt have his way on wikipedia. Lots of allegations were thrown on the SPI case I had opened couple days ago against Ragnimo/Ayaltimo including the fact that there's a conspiracy against certain editors. Many of the editors who remain blocked in this project are incompetent yet GoldenDragonHorn overlooks that and starts pointing fingers of bias. There's only one possible reason for that, the editor is likely part of the problem. What I find interesting between GoldenHorn and the other two editors is their agenda to discredit Arab influence on Somalia by pushing fringe theories on multiple articles and being adamant on ethnicity sections in the lede [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sultanate_of_Mogadishu&diff=prev&oldid=982347325] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yusuf_bin_Ahmad_al-Kawneyn&type=revision&diff=990315761&oldid=990315581] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yusuf_bin_Ahmad_al-Kawneyn&type=revision&diff=990156571&oldid=990137364] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yusuf_bin_Ahmad_al-Kawneyn&type=revision&diff=990026584&oldid=979466541]. Not to mention the copying of each others SPI case rebuttals which prompted GoldenHorn to comment on my SPI case inorder to tell Ayaltimo to cease doing that as it may implicate him, Ayaltimo continued to copy some of his texts even after that. One wonders how did GoldenHorn come across an obscure SPI case that he wasnt even mentioned in? I would also like to point out that Ragnimo doesnt seem to mind the scrutiny as he continued to make identical edits of GoldenDragonHorn even after this SPI case was opened. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adal_Sultanate&type=revision&diff=985420415&oldid=983681870] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adal_Sultanate&type=revision&diff=991178559&oldid=990969133] [[User:Magherbin|Magherbin]] ([[User talk:Magherbin|talk]]) 11:29, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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First of all Magherbin you are in no position to be accusatory of disruption. When you have a long history of edit warring and have been blocked before for vandalizing.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Magherbin&diff=prev&oldid=919512751#edit_war] You have also been blocked for socking and misusing other accounts to push propaganda [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress/Archive#02_April_2019]. What appears to me is that your dispute and disagreements with me on the Yusuf talk page[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yusuf_bin_Ahmad_al-Kawneyn#RFC_regarding_appropriate_ethnicity_content] has made you enter this conversation to push this agenda further. So what you and Kz115 want is to silence opposition/opposing views or what you consider a threat to your own advocacies and hence launch these false accusations. It is ironic you are making personal attacks on other editors when you have been blocked and is a frequent edit warrior and has been caught socking. You also talk about incompetency when you put down text that are not in the sources you add or twist words from sources and has beeen caught while doing so. Everything you are saying is projection. |
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It's also ironic that you ask other editors like I to hold you in Good Faith[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ragnimo#Talk:Yusuf_bin_Ahmad_al-Kawneyn] but have no problem launching these unfounded accusations to shut people down and toss personal attacks at editors. In violation of [[ WP:AOBF]]. You and Kzl55 view Wikipedia as a lanching pad for you own nationalistic propaganda and distortions and anyone who even opposes this is accused of socking or dispruption. Which time and time again has been proven to be untrue.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO/Archive#Clerk,_CheckUser,_and/or_patrolling_admin_comments_6][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/GoldenDragonHorn/Archive#Clerk,_CheckUser,_and/or_patrolling_admin_comments] As both of these cases have shown, we are all unrelated to eachother. (See Check user comment) And i don't know a single one of them. |
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There is no coaching happening, GoldenDragonHorn is being a Good Faith editor (unlike some of you) and being supportive and inclusive to wikiproject contributions from other editors and also being for its progress and inclusion of neutrality. Wikipedia is supposed to be a collaboration [[WP:TEAMWORK]]. There is no rule against editors interracting with eachother on wiki in that way. He is a good editor in my book , as are many others. Kzl55 tried to link me to Golden before on the sole basis he sent me a message on my talk page one time[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990628047]. But conveniently left out how i actually responded back to him only several weeks after[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ragnimo#Fringe_theories_about_Mogadishu] and he did so after leaving a comment on the Mogadishu talkpage in response to my section[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMogadishu#Al-Zanj_and_Mogadishu's_founding] and after me not responding back for some time he sent me notif on my talk page. |
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How come it took me several weeks to respond back and come back to wikipedia again? If i know him or linked to him somehow? Also if someone is off site canvasing, with familiarity to wiki they wouldn't leave messages to peoples talk pages as well to draw in that type of suspicion. It seems pretty idiotic at that. His message to me is nothing short of [[WP:APPNOTE]]. And actually proves we r unrelated. |
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[[User:Ragnimo|Ragnimo]] ([[User talk:Ragnimo|talk]]) 13:55, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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::Reminder that [[User:Magherbin|Magherbin]] was accused of being a MiddayExpress sock by '''Kzl55''' with a similar so-called compelling wall of text as above, only to be caught as an entirely different sock-farm[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Middayexpress/Archive#02_April_2019], so I find his concerns about 'disruption' quite funny. This comment is clearly retaliatory in nature, because I decided to encourage falsely accused editors from giving up on this platform, and I did it out in the open with clear consequences for myself. How is that coaching to 'disrupt'? Since when is civil-discourse disruption? Only thing I might be guilty of is being a little too passionate in my replies, and that's only because of the desolate state of WPSomalia, which can never prosper if all of its proponents are chased away through false SPIs. Also you ask; how did I find the aforementioned SPI? There is a feature on Wikipedia called 'contribs', everybody checks the contribs of other editors' they find interesting, its how you got here as well despite not being pinged. Ragnimo reverting a page to what's actually being said in the source (that is available in PDF form) doesn't equal ''identical edits''. Also, I discuss all of my editorial changes on their respective talk-pages[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Ancient_history#Horn_of_Africa],[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ogaden_War#Article_is_not_written_in_a_neutral_POV],[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sultanate_of_Mogadishu#New_section:_Ethnicity] and actively seek debate because I let the sources do the talking for me. Contrast that with your history of accusing editors you're having a content-dispute with of being socks, unilateral changes on articles as well as for years maintained a POV through the use of four accounts, and I have to wonder who has a clear history of disruption here, me or you? (rhetorical btw) --[[User:GoldenDragonHorn|GoldenDragonHorn]] ([[User talk:GoldenDragonHorn|talk]]) 13:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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GoldenDragon i revert edits that are unsourced [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ahmad_ibn_Ibrahim_al-Ghazi&diff=990176067&oldid=990158277]. I also changed Ayaltimo's edit even[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ahmad_ibn_Ibrahim_al-Ghazi&diff=prev&oldid=990900919]. Because he put down something that was not in the sources he added. I have done the same on other articles. For me it's important that what's included is supported by the sources and whats sourced isn't removed maliciously. I have contributed to creating a balanced point of view on Ahmed Gureys ethnicity section. Even stuff that doesn't fall inline with my own view point. |
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I have various articles on my watchlist. The same reverting of a page edit was used to accuse me of being MostafaO or Aqooni.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990816671] What i edited was a longstanding edition to the page and has been there for several years and i only restored it after looking at the contribution history and the talk page to see if there was a valid reason but now he is saying i am you on the same basis. So i am several seperate people at once? I just have to laugh. |
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[[User:Ragnimo|Ragnimo]] ([[User talk:Ragnimo|talk]]) 15:36, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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*In lew of the above, I draw attention to [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Regarding_Ted_Kennedy#Sockpuppets]], which states "''For the purpose of dispute resolution when there is uncertainty whether a party is one user with sockpuppets or several users with similar editing habits they may be treated as one user with sockpuppets.''" Accordingly, per [[WP:MEATPUPPET]], "''A new user who engages in the same behavior as another user in the same context, and who appears to be editing Wikipedia solely for that purpose, may be subject to the remedies applied to the user whose behavior they are joining. Sanctions have been applied to editors of longer standing who have not, in the opinion of Wikipedia's administrative bodies, consistently exercised independent judgment.''" Therefore, even if we can not prove GoldenDragonHorn ''et al'' are either Middayexpress or MustafO, if we can clearly and unmistakably demonstrate that their behavior, disruption, and ethnic-center editing is part of the patterns clearly and unmistakably established at at the other SPI cases, we have leave to consider them part of the aforemention sockfarms for purposes of enforcing Wikipolicy and Wikiguidelines. I urge the checkuser corps to keep this in mind when taking up the case. [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] ([[User talk:TomStar81|Talk]]) 15:09, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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:*Those banned members and my POV aren't even the same, never backed their edits, never voted in their favor. How could my edit history ever be misconstrued as Meat-puppetry? This is quite a reach. I have also not engaged in any disruptive editing, and left clear responses on talk-pages to spark discussions before making editorial changes. If you don't want my presence on Wikipedia, you can just say that. I might oblige and leave on my accord if the mistrust is this high and with no safeguards in place to protect new editors. --[[User:GoldenDragonHorn|GoldenDragonHorn]] ([[User talk:GoldenDragonHorn|talk]]) 15:20, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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The same goes for me i actually look for consensus and discourse before i edit instead of edit warring. I have done so numerous times on different talk pages [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barbaria_(East_Africa)#Need_explanation_behind_new_edits_and_sections.] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mogadishu#Al-Zanj_and_Mogadishu's_founding][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yusuf_bin_Ahmad_al-Kawneyn#Arabian_origin_story_explained]. Other editors even enquire me on my talk page.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ragnimo#Barbaria] and i open to it. But they keep repeating disruption without bringing proof or describing how we made them. |
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[[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] Also what the heck do you mean by an ethnic-center editing? I joined Somalia Wikiproject to further pages related to such. A lot of these articles lack details, structure and need work. If you look at all the links i have shown thus far you can see there is no nationalist editing. Your acussations are baseless. [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] let me remind you what nationalist/ethnic editing isn't [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Nationalist_editing#What_nationalist_editing_is_not WP:NAT] '''''Nationalist editing is not promoting a view based on reliable sources that another editor disagrees with, or being in the minority in local consensus.''' Editing on a single topic is not in violation of policy. Having an interest in ethnic groups, nations or countries is not inherently a conflict. Many editors are proud of the place they live in, which means that they make many constructive and well sourced contributions about an ethnic group, nation or country. '''Oftentimes editors in poorly covered regions are uniquely placed to improve critical articles. Just because an editor only makes edits to articles about a country, or topics related to certain place, does not mean they are breaking policy.''''' |
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When your fellow editor @Kzl55 who you are biased to is the most prolific editor on mainly/only Somaliland topics. The whole acussations he is making is against people people who he feels are against his advocacy for it. Why don't you hold him to that mistrust and suspicion.? How do you know he is not meat puppet or sock of the various [[WP:SOMALILAND]] members that always sweep in to agree with him? and vote on issues? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Isaaq_genocide] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dilla_Massacre_(2nd_nomination)] |
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Btw the afromentioned behavioral evidence i have shown in the above responses proves that i am not related to Ayaltimo or GoldenDragonHorn and we are infact seperate people that happen to share interest in furthering Somali wiki articles. It's interesting to me that most of you went silent around this subject and shifted the goal post to a different type of accussations [[User:Ragnimo|Ragnimo]] ([[User talk:Ragnimo|talk]]) 16:52, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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: I have no idea why I am being mentioned here? The false SPI investigation launched on me has already been done and it was proven that I am unrelated to both Ragnimo and Goldenhorn. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO/Archive#Clerk,_CheckUser,_and/or_patrolling_admin_comments_6] I find it ironic Magherbin a user who has a history of abusing multiple accounts and using fringe theories to accuse individuals of socking. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Magherbin&oldid=936996875] |
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: MiddayExpress was a very disruptive editor not by just abusing multiple accounts but pushing his Arab theory onto the Somali history and if you look at Goldenhorn. He's literally the polar opposite. He's been removing/changing edits previously made by MiddayExpress. He's been engaging in good faith on talk pages. He's very kind to users, hardly engages in edit warring, and is a very good contributor to Somali Wikiproject. There are barely any good editors on the Somali wikiproject and they are desperately needed because there are literally so many Somali pages that are neglected and need so much development. If Somali pages keep getting developed it'll be good for Wikipedia because more people will learn about the country and promote a good view to the world. I just want to say something quickly for the user [[User:GoldenDragonHorn|GoldenDragonHorn]]. I'm very proud for all the contributions you did for Wikipedia and I wish you the best in the coming future. I can't wait to see more work you do. Don't let anyone deter you from editing. How many times these investigations have been proven wrong? This one will fly yet again further strengthening your case. [[User:Ayaltimo|Ayaltimo]] ([[User talk:Ayaltimo|talk]]) 18:07, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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[[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] You seem like a reasonable editor can you or [[User:GeneralNotability|GeneralNotability]] run CheckUser on Ayaltimo with [[User:AlaskaLava|AlaskaLava]]. Real quick. |
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This one user joined wikipedia very very recently 29.oct, around the time me and the two other editors in question had disagreements with AlaskaLava on the Mogadishu page content [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mogadishu#Ajuran_,_Hirab_rule_Mogadishu](see the talk section above it as well). And immediately added himself to the Somalia Wikiprojects [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ayaltimo&oldid=985976295]. And Alaskalava has since gone inactive [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/AlaskaLava]. And its obvious this editor isn't a new user as Robert pointed out in the previous Sockpuppet investigation[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO/Archive#Clerk,_CheckUser,_and/or_patrolling_admin_comments_6]. His first second edit is him having knowledge about sockpuppetry of some other editor. In the above response he is familiar with Middayexpress editing habits. |
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Most of his early edits and contributions have been only on topics related to such as Hiraab , Geledi and Ajuuran associated with Mogadishu where spent time chasing around WanderingGeeljire. Then other times it's following me around in Barbaria, or Adal, Aw-Barkhadle or other related wiki articles that i am on. He obsessively is thanking every edit i make. He once even tried to copy GoldenDragonHorns words from the sockpuppet case that Alaskalava unsucessfully launched against him and Wanderingeeljire following a dispute in the Mogadishu talk page and got called out for it.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO&diff=prev&oldid=990471080] He watches all our contributions very closely and tries to enter to hyper to allign and agree with us on every turn and sink his POV with my own or with the other two editors involved in the Mogadishu page dispute. He leaves messages to the same editors involved in that dispute , the weirdest fake support comments and banrstar and even left one on my own talk page[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ragnimo#Important] to try and bait me into canvassing I left it without a response and i didn't join it. All while getting himself forcefully involved in my disagreements and disputed with other editors on other pages just to side with me. He tries to sink his editing time/activity with my own. Which is something i have noticed from looking at his contribs these past 2 days, as soon as he sees me editing he edits and when sees me inactive, he is inactive. |
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I am fairly certain that this is an account Ayaltimo run by [[User:AlaskaLava|AlaskaLava]] in an attempt to tie us together and make it looks like we are in some sort off site alliance or in cohoots. And try to lend proof to his own sock allegations to get the 3 editors involved in disagreements with him about Mogadishu blocked or banned [[User:Ragnimo|Ragnimo]] ([[User talk:Ragnimo|talk]]) 06:38, 1 December 2020 (UTC) |
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:Only a very small group of editors have access to the checkuser tool, {{u|Ragnimo}}, and I'm not one of them. See [[Wikipedia:CheckUser#Users with CheckUser permissions]]. [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 08:50, 1 December 2020 (UTC) |
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I see now. I guess i will have to launch my own sockpuppet investigation and request a check user. I just have to figure out how this all works first [[User:Ragnimo|Ragnimo]] ([[User talk:Ragnimo|talk]]) 09:06, 1 December 2020 (UTC) |
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: @[[User:Ragnimo|Ragnimo]] Lol, I don't follow around anyone but I was interested in seeing the progress of Geledi Sultanate and saw a few grammatical mistakes wandering Geeljire made so I helped him out but I never touched most of the stuff he edited. What happened in Barbaria was my own. I was lurking and checking the user out Yacoob316 and I saw his latest edits. I came across a sock and reverted his edits. I never helped you out or removed anything you removed. I've already explained myself what I was doing on that page, on Al-kawneyn, and everything else you're accusing me of. Please read again properly and see the evidence before you make your own ideas in your mind. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MustafaO/Archive#Comments_by_other_users_6] I didn't copy GoldenDragonHorn comment. I made it into my own comment but I wasn't aware of check user so I apologized. |
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: I don't follow you around or touch anything you edit. It's simple we both have share similar interests and if you want to know the truth about Alaska Lava. He's either Midday Express since they both push the Arab theory on Somali history or MustafaO who focuses on Gadabursi pages and is active when Mustafa0 socks are not around but if you feel like he's me go ahead and you'll see how wrong you are about me. [[User:Ayaltimo|Ayaltimo]] ([[User talk:Ayaltimo|talk]]) 15:50, 01 December 2020 (UTC) |
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: Ask yourself [[User:Ragnimo|Ragnimo]] if I was really here for that as you suggested wouldn't I back you up against Kzl55? Wouldn't I back you up in other edit wars you've been in? There are so many instances where I could've supported you but I didn't. Hopefully, that answers your question that I'm my own person. |
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====<big>Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments</big>==== |
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*The evidence does seem to cast doubt on GoldenDragonHorn being a new editor, although I'm not convinced the comment made [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sultanate_of_Mogadishu&diff=prev&oldid=982347325 here] is consistent with the POV reflected [[Talk:Somalis/Archive_3#Winters_et_al._(2010)|here]] and [[Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources/Archive_58#Are_Afrocentric_works_reliable_or_partisan?|here]]. [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 19:30, 28 November 2020 (UTC) |
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* {{clerknote}} There is certainly overlap in topic areas of interest, but I am not convinced that these are the same people. I also privately talked to a checkuser about GoldenDragonHorn during the MustafaO SPI and was told that they don't match either old Middayexpress socks or MustafaO. I feel fairly confident that there is some kind of off-wiki coordination afoot, but I am not willing to block. If these editors are being disruptive, deal with them as individuals. Closing without action. [[User:GeneralNotability|GeneralNotability]] ([[User talk:GeneralNotability|talk]]) 19:37, 30 November 2020 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 20:37, 14 November 2021
Middayexpress
Middayexpress (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
For archived investigations, see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Middayexpress/Archive.