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On 13 May 2018, it was proposed that this article be moved from Shinola to Shinola Detroit. The result of the discussion was moved.

Edit request to correct text

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JS at Shinola (talk · contribs) has been paid by Shinola.

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Hello. My name is John and I've created a Wikipedia account in an attempt to update the company's page by submitting requests here for others to review.

I've noticed the second paragraph of the History section has some incorrect text:

Every Shinola product is technically assembled in the United States. However, many parts used in Shinola watches are manufactured in China and Thailand. These factories are owned by companies based in Switzerland

Based on the sources already used as citations and the additional one I've shared below, I propose the following changes (see bold):

Every Shinola watch is technically assembled in the United States. However, many parts used in Shinola watches are manufactured in Europe, China and Thailand. Certain components factories are owned by companies based in Switzerland.

The citations focus on watches, not all Shinola products. This source confirms Europe is a watch manufacturing site.

I'm not editing the article directly because of my conflict of interest, so can someone please review the proposed changes and update the page on my behalf? Thank you! JS at Shinola (talk) 18:42, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Heartmusic678 (talk) 12:05, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request to update text re: tagline

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Hello again, I am back with another request for the History section. Currently, the end of the second paragraph has the following outdated text:

Shinola's current tagline is "Where American is Made", and the company has actively utilized Detroit's reputation as a worldwide manufacturing hub in its marketing of the brand.

There's an entire section called "Made in America marketing". I propose removing this sentence to eliminate repetition, OR updating the text to the following:

Shinola's tagline was "Where American is Made", but that was abandoned after the FTC requested changes in certain marketing and labeling practices. The company has actively utilized Detroit's reputation as a worldwide manufacturing hub in its marketing of the brand.

This source should help support this change. Does someone mind updating the page appropriately?

Thanks again! JS at Shinola (talk) 20:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Heartmusic678 (talk) 12:05, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request to update history text

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Hi again! I'd like to request a couple additional updates to the end of the History section:

1. The article says, "The company's headquarters and watch factory are housed within the College for Creative Studies (CCS) on the fifth floor of the Alfred A. Taubman Building in Detroit, a former automotive research lab."

The company occupies the 4th and 5th floors. This Wired source supports the claim. I propose changing "fifth floor" to "fourth and fifth floors".

2. Also, the last paragraph says, "Most of the workers assembling watches are local Detroiters, and many of them come from the auto business. Since the company's founding in 2011, it has grown to over 400 people by 2014.

"Auto business" is quite vague. I propose changing the text to the following: "Most of the workers assembling watches are local Detroiters, and some come from automotive manufacturing."
I propose changing "2014" to "2021" per this source.

Thanks again for reviewing and updating on my behalf! JS at Shinola (talk) 20:50, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Heartmusic678 (talk) 12:05, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gilbert

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@Heartmusic678: Thanks for reviewing the above requests. I'd like to submit a request to remove this text at the end of the Gentrification controversy section:

This concept is not new to the city, however, with businessmen like Dan Gilbert also coming into the city with the intent to "revitalize" the once great city, but also receiving criticism from the residents of Detroit that argue the city was great without them.

Dan Gilbert's massive real estate holdings in Detroit and his businesses, including Quicken Loans, really have nothing to do with the criticism Moy and Modrak aim at Shinola. I hope editors will agree this content is not appropriate for the Shinola page.

Can someone please update the page on my behalf? Thanks again for reviewing, JS at Shinola (talk) 18:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done. The content is unsourced, so I have no problem removing it.

Jewelry and eyewear subsection for Products

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Currently, the Products section is missing information about jewelry and eyewear. I propose adding the following "Jewelry and eyewear" subsection:

Shinola launched a jewelry line in 2016, with initial pieces designed by New York City designer Pamela Love.^[1]^[2] In 2021, eyewear was added to the product line with the launch of three styles: the Rambler, the Bixly, and the Mackinac.^[3]

Done.

References

^ Wolfson, Julie (December 2, 2016). "Shinola's Jewelry and Watches for Women". Cool Hunting. Retrieved January 4, 2022.
^ Anyanwu, Obi (October 30, 2016). "Shinola launches first-ever women's jewelry line with Pamela Love". Fashion Network. Retrieved January 4, 2022.
^ Winn, Ashley (May 21, 2021). "Shinola Unveils Eyewear Inspired by Its Watches and Luxury Wares". Hour Detroit. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

Thanks for updating the article appropriately, JS at Shinola (talk) 18:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shinola Hotel

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The Products section is currently missing mention of Shinola Hotel. I propose the following "Shinola Hotel" subsection:

Shinola, in partnership with a Detroit real estate company, opened a 129-room, eight-story boutique hotel as part of a multimillion-dollar development project in January 2019. Located on Detroit's Woodward Avenue, the hotel occupies five buildings. It also has a restaurant called San Morello and a retail store.^[1]^[2] In 2021, Shinola Hotel provided lodging for the launch of the "Decked out Detroit" initiative, an effort to highlight local activities and businesses.^[3]

Done.

References

^ Conlin, Jennifer (April 13, 2019). "Hotel Review: Shinola Hotel, Detroit". The New York Times. Retrieved January 4, 2022.
^ Klug, Emma (November 30, 2018). "The Makings of the Shinola Hotel". Hour Detroit. Retrieved January 4, 2022.
^ Leasca, Stacey (January 29, 2021). "Detroit's Shinola Hotel Just Curated the Perfect Weekend Escape". Travel + Leisure. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

Like before, I'm hoping editors can review and update the article on my behalf. Thanks again! JS at Shinola (talk) 18:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shinola Pet

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Shinola Pet is defunct. To bring the article more to up to date, I propose removing the "Shinola Pet" section, or at least updating the tense (was a collection; supported the Michigan Humane Society; were produced in partnership). I don't think this is a controversial suggestion but I'll let editors decide what's best and update the page appropriately. Thanks again for reviewing! JS at Shinola (talk) 18:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done.

Partnerships

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My final request for today is adding mention of a couple recent partnerships with notable companies. I propose adding the following text, either as a new section called "Partnerships" or within one of the existing sections ("History" or "Products"):

In 2021, Shinola partnered with Crate and Barrel to create a 115-piece furniture line and with the Ford Motor Company to create a concept for the Lincoln Aviator at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance.^[1]^[2]^[3]

Done. Heartmusic678 (talk) 12:10, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Taylor, Elise (September 20, 2021). "September's Best Home Collections Are Perfect For Those Who Want a Fall Refresh". Vogue. Retrieved January 4, 2022.
^ Cook, Kim (September 15, 2021). "Fall décor gets personal: `Your house becomes your story'". Associated Press. Retrieved January 4, 2022.
^ Dorian, Drew (August 2, 2021). "Lincoln to Show Shinola-Inspired Aviator Concept at Pebble Beach". Car and Driver. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

Thank you for reviewing and updating on my behalf. JS at Shinola (talk) 18:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Community involvement

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@Heartmusic678: Thanks (again!) for reviewing the above requests. I have a few more improvements in mind, if you're available.

Currently, the Community involvement section has a single sentence about the dog park. I propose a slight expansion of the section to include mention of select community organizations receiving proceeds from Shinola products. I've drafted the following content for consideration, based on Wikipedia appropriate sourcing:

In 2014, Shinola partnered with Midtown Detroit, Inc., to open an off-leash dog park in Detroit.^[1]^[2] Following the legalization of recreational marijuana in Michigan, Shinola released the "Twenty After Four" watch line in partnership with rapper Common and actor Woody Harrelson in 2020. Proceeds from the sale, just over $176,000, were split between two criminal justice charities: the Anti-Recidivism Coalition and Cabrini Green Legal Aide.^[3]^[4]

In 2021, Shinola produced 1,969 Pride watches to commemorate the 1969 Stonewall riots. The company donated $120,000 of the proceeds to the LGBT+ nonprofits SAGE Metro Detroit and the Ruth Ellis Center.^[5] Also in 2021, the company launched the Most Likely to Succeed watch line, with $40,000 in proceeds going to Money Matters for Youth, a nonprofit that teaches children financial literacy.^[6]

Thanks again for reviewing! JS at Shinola (talk) 19:24, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done.

References

^ Muller, David (April 3, 2019). "Shinola opens Midtown Detroit dog park Friday, hosts block party". MLive. Retrieved January 10, 2022.
^ Green, Dennis (July 28, 2016). "The controversial and fascinating Detroit company behind Bill Clinton's favorite watch". Business Insider. Retrieved January 10, 2022.
^ Vesilind, Emili (April 21, 2020). "Shinola's 420 Detrola Watch Supports Criminal Justice Reform". JCK. Retrieved January 10, 2022.
^ Pener, Degen (April 20, 2020). "Common, Woody Harrelson and Shinola Launch Cannabis-Leaf Watch for 4/20 Day". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved January 10, 2022.
^ Frank, Annalise (June 6, 2020). "As corporate Pride marketing proliferates, LGBTQ entrepreneurs carve out space". Crain's Detroit Business. Retrieved January 10, 2022.
^ Dybis, Karen (September 23, 2021). "Shinola Drops First Fall Catalog And Playful Crayola Detrola Watch". JCK. Retrieved January 10, 2022.

Section order

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I'd like to make a suggestion regarding the article's structure.

Currently the page has sections ordered History, Criticism, Products, etc. The Criticism section is about specific products and marketing, but the information is presented before readers have learned about the company's products. I propose changing the section order to History, Products, Criticism, etc.

While I take issue with some of the content within the Criticism, for now I am simply seeking to change the article framework for improved flow and readability.

I understand editors will have the final say here. Thanks for your consideration, JS at Shinola (talk) 19:24, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I moved the section lower on the page. It falls before the Community involvement section. Heartmusic678 (talk) 12:23, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bicycles

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Currently, the Bicycles section says, "The chromoly steel frames and forks are made by Richard Schwinn's Waterford Precision Cycles in Waterford, Wisconsin, with complete assembly taking place at Shinola's flagship retail store at 441 W. Canfield Street in Detroit."

I propose removing "with complete assembly taking place at Shinola's flagship retail store at 441 W. Canfield Street in Detroit" because assembly is not currently taking place at the flagship store due to supply constraints. Additionally, seems like unnecessary detail to include the exact address.

My goal here is to update the text, which is accurate if the last part of the sentence is removed. Thanks! JS at Shinola (talk) 19:24, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done

Journals

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Currently, the article's Journals section says, "Shinola makes journals in partnership with Edwards Brothers Malloy, an Ann Arbor, Michigan-based company. The journals come with paper, soft linen or hard linen covers, with a price point of US$12-$20 for a linen covered journal."

This is inaccurate and outdated. Shinola has sold but did not make journals. Additionally, Ref. #50 does not work and Edwards Brothers Malloy has closed.

I propose updating the section to say: "Shinola sold journals with soft linen and hard linen in partnership with Ann Arbor, Michigan-based Edwards Brothers Malloy, prior to the printer's closure in 2018." This source confirms the closure. Thanks again! JS at Shinola (talk) 19:24, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done.

Hello @JS at Shinola: Thanks for your message. Your requests have been answered. Heartmusic678 (talk) 12:23, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

History text

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@Heartmusic678: Thank you once again for assisting with this series of edit requests. I have a few more suggestions for improving this article, if you're available.

Currently, the "History" section says, "The modern company was founded in 2011 by Tom Kartsotis under his investment company, Bedrock Manufacturing (now Bedrock Brands)." To disambiguate the polish brand and the subject more clearly, I propose changing the text to "The Detroit-based retail company was founded in 2011 by Tom Kartsotis under his investment company, Bedrock." You'll also see I've trimmed "Bedrock Manufacturing (now Bedrock Brands)" to simply "Bedrock", since there seems to be a bit of confusion re: Bedrock Manufacturing, Bedrock Brands, and Bedrock Group LP. Also, "Bedrock" is used throughout the article. Done

Thanks for reviewing, JS at Shinola (talk) 16:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quartz movements

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I'd like to address the "Quartz movements" section. Currently, the opening sentence reads, "Shinola has faced criticism for producing mostly quartz watches instead of mechanical or automatic self-winding movements found in nearly all higher-end luxury watches, which require substantially more skill to produce." Neither of the citations used in this section are critical of the company; the sources simply describe the types of movements and how the watches are made.

I also take issue with the text "crediting the delay to the time it took their Swiss suppliers to develop one". The Swiss supplier did not develop the watch. I propose changing "develop one" to "finish making the mechanical movement". Additionally, I propose adding the following brief and neutral update, per this source: In May 2021, Shinola released its first automatic chronograph, the Canfield Speedway. I propose updating this section to the following:

Shinola began by producing watches with quartz analog movements.^[1] In November 2017, the company unveiled its first mechanical watch, called the Lake Erie Monster, in response to public demand, attributing the delay to the time it took their Swiss suppliers to finish making the mechanical movement.^[2] In May 2021, Shinola released its first automatic chronograph, the Canfield Speedway.^[3]

References

^ KIRKLAND, JEREMY (10 November 2017). "Shinola's New Automatic Watch Is a Monster. (No, Really.)". Esquire. Retrieved 12 October 2018.
^ PRICE, EMILY (November 7, 2017). "Shinola Unveils Its First Mechanical Watch". Fortune. Retrieved 12 October 2018.
^ Vesilind, Emili (May 19, 2021). "Shinola Debuts Its Most Complicated Watch To Date". JCK. Retrieved January 13, 2022.

Finally, since this section is really just describing watches and not actual criticism of the company, can this content be moved from the "Criticism" section to the "Watches" subsection? Thanks again for reviewing and updating the article on my behalf. JS at Shinola (talk) 16:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done with edits. I included the first sentence at the beginning of the Watches section and the other content at the end of the section to keep everything in chronological order. Heartmusic678 (talk) 15:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Leather

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I've identified a couple issues with the "Leather" section, which currently says, "In 2014, Shinola opened its own leather factory in Detroit, and has begun manufacturing leather watch straps under the leadership of Braloba, a Swiss-based, family-owned company run by Thomas Schori. The leather factory is equipped with custom-designed machines produced by Galli S.P.A. The company will also begin producing small leather goods and accessories in-house."

The source focuses on the leather factory and watch straps, but says Shinola "will expand to small leather goods and eventually handbags". There seems to be some forecasting here. Therefore, I propose removing the following third sentence: "The company will also begin producing small leather goods and accessories in-house." One more minor request: In the last paragraph, I propose changing "come from Hadley Roma..." to "have been sourced from Hadley Roma..." for clarity. Done.

Thanks again for reviewing, JS at Shinola (talk) 16:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Retail locations

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Currently, the list of flagship stores in the "Retail locations" section ends with Cleveland. Columbus, Denver, Waikiki, and King of Prussia are missing.

Additionally, the current Ann Arbor claim is unsourced. Therefore, I propose moving mention of Ann Arbor and expanding the list of cities with the following:

"... Columbus,^[1] Denver,^[2] Waikiki,^[3] Ann Arbor,^[4] and King of Prussia.^[5]"

Done.

References

^ SUTTELL, SCOTT (May 23, 2019). "Set your watch: The Shinola store at the Van Aken District opens June 6". Crain's Cleveland Business. Archived from the original on May 23, 2019. Retrieved January 13, 2022. This will be Shinola's second traditional retail store in Ohio; the company in fall 2017 opened one at Easton Town Center in Columbus.
^ "Detroit watchmaker Shinola to open first Colorado store". The Denver Post. May 3, 2017. Retrieved January 13, 2022.
^ Prichard, James (August 18, 2016). "Grand opening set for Shinola store at International Market Place". Pacific Business News. Retrieved January 13, 2022.
^ Durr, Matt (February 25, 2015). "Shinola opening in downtown Ann Arbor". MLive. Retrieved January 13, 2022.
^ Hatmaker, Julia (October 28, 2016). "These are the 26 new King of Prussia stores (just in time for the holiday shopping season)". The Patriot-News. Retrieved January 13, 2022.

Also, I propose removing the sentence "A Willys Detroit, a sister store to Shinola, is a home for distinctive American brands" because Willys Detroit has closed. Done.

Thank you! JS at Shinola (talk) 16:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at A. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

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@Heartmusic678: I want to thank you once again for taking time to review these requests and update the article.

I'd like to start addressing some issues with the "Criticism" section:

The section leads with the opinion of John Moy, a brand consultant and fashion writer, sharing his personal thoughts in a piece published by the website Four Pins. I'm not seeing evidence that the Complex Networks channel is a journalistic publication with strong vetting standards.
- The section gives a lot of space to this (non-notable) person's opinion and has statements like "On the other hand, many commentators to this article consider this criticism unfair, given that the company has created American manufacturing jobs." Commentators to this article? I'm not even sure what this means.

The section's third paragraph says, "In 2014, men's style site compared Shinola to a 'trust fund kid that decided one day he wanted to start a company and had his dad buy him all the cool stuff.'" The sentence is unsourced, but I see the quote is also taken from the Four Pins piece.

Since this content is based on a non-notable individual's opinion published in a non-notable publication, I propose removing the section's first paragraph as well as the "trust fund kid" sentence in the third paragraph. Thank you for reviewing, JS at Shinola (talk) 18:49, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @JS at Shinola: I cannot remove this content in good faith, because Four Pins is affiliated with Complex/Complex Networks which is a reliable source. If you have suggestions for how to revise the current content, I will be happy to review it. Heartmusic678 (talk) 13:02, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Second paragraph

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Shinola (retail company). (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

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Related to above, I'd also like to point out issues with the "Criticism" section's third paragraph, which has no citations (but refers to Reference Number 66: "Shinola Takes Its 'Detroit Cool' Message on the Road").

First of all, the section leads with "Alex Williams in the New York Times criticized Shinola's use of "Detroit" as a marketing tool". The New York Times piece was not a criticism in the least. It had an appropriate level of skepticism, but I don't think anyone reading the article would see it as criticism. Alex Williams writes about the marketing strength of Shinola's Detroit connection. There are references in this piece about the criticism Shinola has taken, but this does not appear to be the personal opinion of Alex Williams.
The paragraph says "... but a 'job-creating vehicle' and because of Detroit's association with manufacturing". This isn't criticism or controversial.
The next sentences read, "His job argument is a driving argument in support of the company. In an interview with the New York Times, Carlos Quirarte, the cultural director, even states...". This is poorly written. The following is more accurate: "In an interview with Williams for his New York Times piece, Carlos Quirarte, Shinola's former cultural director, asks...".

In summary, the section's currently-unsourced second paragraph is problematic for multiple reasons. Someone has bloated this section with text which is not representative of sourcing. I'm hoping someone can remove the text, or at least trim and re-write in a neutral manner. I have other issues with this section, but I will pause for now and not submit too many changes at once. Thanks again for reviewing. JS at Shinola (talk) 18:49, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[Cool1-1] Wolfson, Julie (December 2, 2016). "Shinola's Jewelry and Watches for Women". Cool Hunting. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[2] Anyanwu, Obi (October 30, 2016). "Shinola launches first-ever women's jewelry line with Pamela Love". Fashion Network. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[Hour1-3] Winn, Ashley (May 21, 2021). "Shinola Unveils Eyewear Inspired by Its Watches and Luxury Wares". Hour Detroit. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[NYT1-4] Conlin, Jennifer (April 13, 2019). "Hotel Review: Shinola Hotel, Detroit". The New York Times. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[Hour2-5] Klug, Emma (November 30, 2018). "The Makings of the Shinola Hotel". Hour Detroit. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[Travel1-6] Leasca, Stacey (January 29, 2021). "Detroit's Shinola Hotel Just Curated the Perfect Weekend Escape". Travel + Leisure. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[Vogue1-7] Taylor, Elise (September 20, 2021). "September's Best Home Collections Are Perfect For Those Who Want a Fall Refresh". Vogue. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[AP1-8] Cook, Kim (September 15, 2021). "Fall décor gets personal: `Your house becomes your story'". Associated Press. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[Car1-9] Dorian, Drew (August 2, 2021). "Lincoln to Show Shinola-Inspired Aviator Concept at Pebble Beach". Car and Driver. Retrieved January 4, 2022.

[MLive1-10] Muller, David (April 3, 2019). "Shinola opens Midtown Detroit dog park Friday, hosts block party". MLive. Retrieved January 10, 2022.

[Insider1-11] Green, Dennis (July 28, 2016). "The controversial and fascinating Detroit company behind Bill Clinton's favorite watch". Business Insider. Retrieved January 10, 2022.

[JCK1-12] Vesilind, Emili (April 21, 2020). "Shinola's 420 Detrola Watch Supports Criminal Justice Reform". JCK. Retrieved January 10, 2022.

[THR1-13] Pener, Degen (April 20, 2020). "Common, Woody Harrelson and Shinola Launch Cannabis-Leaf Watch for 4/20 Day". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved January 10, 2022.

[Crains1-14] Frank, Annalise (June 6, 2020). "As corporate Pride marketing proliferates, LGBTQ entrepreneurs carve out space". Crain's Detroit Business. Retrieved January 10, 2022.

[JCK2-15] Dybis, Karen (September 23, 2021). "Shinola Drops First Fall Catalog And Playful Crayola Detrola Watch". JCK. Retrieved January 10, 2022.

[kirkland-16] KIRKLAND, JEREMY (10 November 2017). "Shinola's New Automatic Watch Is a Monster. (No, Really.)". Esquire. Retrieved 12 October 2018.

[price-17] PRICE, EMILY (November 7, 2017). "Shinola Unveils Its First Mechanical Watch". Fortune. Retrieved 12 October 2018.

[18] Vesilind, Emili (May 19, 2021). "Shinola Debuts Its Most Complicated Watch To Date". JCK. Retrieved January 13, 2022.

[19] SUTTELL, SCOTT (May 23, 2019). "Set your watch: The Shinola store at the Van Aken District opens June 6". Crain's Cleveland Business. Archived from the original on May 23, 2019. Retrieved January 13, 2022. This will be Shinola's second traditional retail store in Ohio; the company in fall 2017 opened one at Easton Town Center in Columbus.

[20] "Detroit watchmaker Shinola to open first Colorado store". The Denver Post. May 3, 2017. Retrieved January 13, 2022.

[21] Prichard, James (August 18, 2016). "Grand opening set for Shinola store at International Market Place". Pacific Business News. Retrieved January 13, 2022.

[22] Durr, Matt (February 25, 2015). "Shinola opening in downtown Ann Arbor". MLive. Retrieved January 13, 2022.

[23] Hatmaker, Julia (October 28, 2016). "These are the 26 new King of Prussia stores (just in time for the holiday shopping season)". The Patriot-News. Retrieved January 13, 2022.

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@@ Line 209: / Line 209: @@
 == Criticism ==
-{{Request edit}}
+{{Request edit|a}}
 {{Reply to|Heartmusic678}} I want to thank you once again for taking time to review these requests and update the article.
@@ Line 220: / Line 220: @@
 Since this content is based on a non-notable individual's opinion published in a non-notable publication, I propose removing the section's first paragraph as well as the "trust fund kid" sentence in the third paragraph. Thank you for reviewing, [[User:JS at Shinola|JS at Shinola]] ([[User talk:JS at Shinola|talk]]) 18:49, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
+: Hi {{re|JS at Shinola}} I cannot remove this content in good faith, because Four Pins is affiliated with Complex/Complex Networks which is a reliable source. If you have suggestions for how to revise the current content, I will be happy to review it. [[User:Heartmusic678|Heartmusic678]] ([[User talk:Heartmusic678|talk]]) 13:02, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 ===Second paragraph===