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February 26

The Arabs Surprised by the Franks

I once heard medieval Islamic sources report that the Arabs were surprised by the Franks at the time.
They speaek publicly and openly with their women, even with women of other man. This was apparently not at all common in the Middle East at that time and surprised the Muslims in the Holy Land.
Can somebody help me to find scource for this? 2A02:8071:60A0:92E0:DB1:B8E0:9138:3D02 (talk) 17:36, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Some such sources are to be extrapolated from (WHAOE) Islamic views on the crusades. --Askedonty (talk) 19:53, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

It comes from Kitab al-I'tibar by Usama ibn Munqidh (1095-1188); a translation of the text that describes the Franks is here:

The Franks are void of all zeal and jealousy. One of them may be walking along with his wife. He meets another man who takes the wife by the hand and steps aside to converse with her while the husband is standing on one side waiting for his wife to conclude the conversation. If she lingers too long for him, he leaves her alone with the conversant and goes away.

He is similarly unimpressed with Western medicine and jurisprudence. Alansplodge (talk) 22:05, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll nitpick here, Alansplodge which is unfair, because you've basically nailed it. (Sorry, I'm a pedant!) You could choose to read that as complimentary or unimpressed. I would suggest that to my western mind the idea that the Franks were devoid of "jealousy" sounds like a compliment, and I wouldn't be sure from it what he really thought. I appreciate that ibn Munqidh was quite reasonably really unimpressed with a swathe of Frankish behaviours and mores, with a small number of notable exceptions, but on this matter the fact that he's clearly shocked doesn't mean he's necessarily disparaging of it. --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 11:25, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

You may well be right Dweller, but I took the thrust of his account to be that the Franks were unconcerned about being dishonoured in this way; it would be interesting to know if the original Arabic word carries the negative connotations that "jealousy" has to modern Western readers. However, I'm no Arabist. Alansplodge (talk) 13:56, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

So yes now, that's very interesting. Edward William Lane somewhere emphathizes that the word for “evil eye”, in Arabic means simply “envy.” This was in relation with practices, amulets etc,. but it may be important keeping in mind too that the observation comes with a date, in effect the 1830's ( history might be cyclical, who knows, or its sociology or whatever that is.) --Askedonty (talk) 17:39, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

February 27

Ethnic borders ≠ national boundaries

Having huge numbers of one's co-ethnics end up outside of the borders of their nation-state after the collapse of a large multinational state?

Which cases were there where a large number of one's co-ethnics ended up outside of the borders of their nation-state after the collapse of a large multinational state? I can think of both ethnic Germans and ethnic Hungarians after the end of World War I (when Austria-Hungary broke up and collapsed), of ethnic Serbs after the collapse of Yugoslavia, and of ethnic Russians after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Which other examples of this have there been? 172.56.187.204 (talk) 02:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Really, when one thinks about it, the position of ethnic Hungarians and ethnic Germans in the 1920s was rather similar to the position of ethnic Serbs and ethnic Russians in the 1990s. 172.56.187.204 (talk) 02:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

The Berlin conference of 1884-1885 notoriously carved up the map of Africa with little regard for keeping people of same ethnic group in the same political unit (in some regions, the areas inhabited by different ethnic groups weren't even known to the map-makers), eventually leading to much turmoil with respect to some of the boundaries in the second half of the 20th century. This isn't exactly the breakup of a large existing state, but the way the French later divided up French West Africa and French Equatorial Africa could be considered such... AnonMoos (talk) 04:10, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

The Partition of India? - though not so much the collapse of a state as the unravelling of an empire. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 10:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

• The collapse of the British Empire left people of English, Scottish and Irish descent all over the globe. Especially in North America, Australia & NZ - and fewer (but still significant) numbers of ethic Brits remaining in India, Singapore, Hong Kong and various African states. Blueboar (talk) 11:16, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

You should include the US's secession from the British Empire as well! 172.56.186.104 (talk) 01:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Armenia, when it was re-created by the USSR as a Soviet republic, only included a minority of the region's Armenian population. The vast majority of them had been living in the Ottoman Empire before World War I. Xuxl (talk) 18:15, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but weren't they already ethnically cleansed to Armenia or, alternatively, to places like Lebanon and Syria by the time that the Soviet Union was created? (Also, can I ask you alternate history questions on your talk page, please?) 172.56.186.104 (talk) 01:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

The Round O

"For gaining the Round O of the year 1889"

What is "the Round O", in the context of the above prize, awarded by a Presbyterian Church Sunday School in 1889? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

It's likely a prize for perfect attendance: for example, in this 1885 book, there is a description of "Round O" membership and a "Round O class" with an annual tea party and prizes. [1]. Modocc (talk) 17:17, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, a couple of mentions "Fifteen scholars obtained the “Round O” prize for complete attendance" and "Those marked thus * obtained what is called the Round O Prize, having made every possible attendance during the year". The obvious next question is - why "the Round O"? DuncanHill (talk) 02:57, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Personally I would suspect that it's supposed to symbolize the number 0, as in 0 days missed. No sources to back that up though. GalacticShoe (talk) 17:23, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

It's common for school reports here in Australia to have a simple entry showing number of days absent. A big 0 would be the most desirable entry. HiLo48 (talk) 22:08, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

February 28

A bottle of fifteen

In the Prosper Mérimée short stopry 'The Blue Room', an Englishman has ordered a bottle of port in a French hotel. The hotel has run out, but the landlord will not lose the sale, exclaiming "I will find him his bottle of port! Bring me a bottle of ratafia, a bottle of fifteen, and a decanter of brandy" he proceeds to manufacture the "port". What is fifteen? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 02:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

1815 vintage? 15% ABV? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 03:11, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

In the French original, it's "une bouteille à quinze". Looking up that particular phrase, it seems it referred to "une bouteille à quinze sous", i.e. just about the cheapest bottle of wine one could buy in a drinking establishment at the time. Mérimée's story comes up all over the search results, but there are other instances that point to "quinze sous" as the correct meaning , for example in "Histoire de Robert Macaire" by Louis-François Raban. Xuxl (talk) 14:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, that would make perfect sense. DuncanHill (talk) 18:09, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

A French Franc was apparently worth only about US$0.20 in 1900, so fifteen sous (= 75 centimes) would be $0.15, or in Sterling about 6d (= 2½ new pence) if I've done the maths right. Alansplodge (talk) 21:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Assuming you mean $0.15 in 1900 US dollars rather than modern day dollars, this would be around $5.53 today. GalacticShoe (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, 15 cents in 1900. Alansplodge (talk) 22:26, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I haven't priced Two Buck Chuck lately but I expect $5.53 would be more than enough for a 750 ml bottle. Of course that relies on a production and distribution model that didn't exist in 1900, which is one of the many reasons that comparing prices across large time intervals is ... fraught. --Trovatore (talk) 21:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Funny enough that was the very first thing I thought of, and I found a Reddit post from I think around 4 months ago that had the price of Chuck listed as roughly 4 bucks. But yeah, I also imagine that the wine economy in 1900s France would have worked probably at least somewhat differently from the wine economy today. GalacticShoe (talk) 22:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

A quick Google finds this French plonk for €3.95 for a 75cl bottle. Wine is heavily taxed in the UK, but you don't get much under £6. Alansplodge (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Note that Mérimée's story was published in 1866 - well before 1900. The other citations I found were also from the middle of the 19th Century. Xuxl (talk) 14:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, the earliest edition Google could find me was 1902. Alansplodge (talk) 13:04, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

With a status of the Englishman vs. Paris slightly evolving in the meantime ( La dame de fer taking its toll by the way). The assorted beverage anecdote 1900: workers-a-bicycle. --Askedonty (talk) 18:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Being partial to port, I'll have to obtain some ratafia and then try out this recipe! {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.126.225.254 (talk) 19:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

What do reliable sources say was Pim Fortuyn's last government appointed or elected office?

Pim Fortuyn was a Dutch politician assassinated in May 2002. I was wondering what was his government office.
In the article Pim Fortuyn, I read

Heading the list of the Livable Rotterdam party, [...] he achieved a major victory in the Rotterdam municipal council elections in early March 2002. The new party won about 36% of the seats, making it the largest party in the council. For the first time since the Second World War, the Labour Party was out of power in Rotterdam.

In the article Government of Rotterdam, Fortuyn is listed as the chief executive for the period 2002-2006 (he died in 2002), but there is not citation for the info. In the article Livable Rotterdam, he is listed as leader of a coalition that won the 2002 elections. But I am still left with the doubt, what do reliable sources say was Pim Fortuyn's last government appointed or elected office? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 03:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

He was the political leader of the largest party forming the city's governing coalition, but that's not an official office. I've never heard the term "chief executive" as part of the government of a city; the closest would be mayor, but that was Ivo Opstelten. I don't think (but am not entirely sure) that Pim Fortuyn was wethouder (alderman, more or less), he was too busy with campaigning for national politics, so his only office would have been member of the municipal council. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

The article does not use the term "chief executive" but "city executive", which for a city means the same as "municipal executive", being the executive board formed by the mayor and aldermen. The mayor, appointed by the Queen, was not a member of Livable Rotterdam. Of the five aldermen, three were members of Livable Rotterdam: Rabella de Faria, Marco Pastors and Wim van Sluis.  --Lambiam 16:34, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, Fortuyn never held any office.  --Lambiam 16:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

When the party he led won the city elections, was he set to become councilman, or was his function was merely within the party and not as candidate? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 23:07, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Dutch wikipedia mentions that he became fraction leader (no source, but it matches my memories), which implies that he took his seat as member of the municipal council. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:55, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

February 29

Is there any more information about the creation of the Boot Monument?

Hello. In the article Boot Monument, there is a section on the creation of the monument. I was wondering if there's any more information on what Peyster did for the monument to be created or how Bissell sculpted it, etc. Thank you~ ‍ Relativity 02:46, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

See what the RefDesk found for you in December about the Boot Monument. Alansplodge (talk) 12:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Nostromo

According to our article Nostromo "Conrad ... relates how, as a young man of about seventeen, while serving aboard a ship in the Gulf of Mexico, he heard the story of a man who had stolen, single-handedly, "a whole lighter-full of silver". As Conrad goes on to relate, he forgot about the story until some twenty-five years later when he came across a travelogue in a used-book shop in which the author related how he worked for years aboard a schooner whose master claimed to be that very thief who had stolen the silver". Has anyone ever identified the travelogue? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 22:59, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

This article (I've only looked at the first page) points to On Many Seas: The Life and Exploits of a Yankee Sailor by Frederick Benton Williams. --Wrongfilter (talk) 10:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

@Wrongfilter: Many thanks. I wonder if he ever knew! DuncanHill (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

DuncanHill, does your "he" refer to Conrad, the man/master, or the author, and what was it that he might have known? {The poster formerly known as 87.891.230.195} 2.127.56.230 (talk) 15:37, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I meant I wonder if Frederick Barton Williams ever knew that Conrad had picked up a copy of his book, been reminded of an old tale, and written Nostromo? DuncanHill (talk) 17:36, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

How much would a "lighter-full" amount to? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

A lighter was/is a barge used to transport cargo between a ship and the shore, when the ship cannot dock, so a substantial amount. In the 19th century they were propelled by oars, sometimes by one man as in this case: I would guess that the capacity of one such as might have been involved (in the period 1864–76) would have been of the order of a ton. Probably Williams' book goes into details.

Regarding what Williams knew, he died in 1908, and although Nostromo was published in 1904, the Author's Note about the story only appeared in later editions in and after October 1917, so Williams cannot have known his book had reminded Conrad of the tale, though he could have read Nostromo and recognised the inspiration. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.127.56.230 (talk) 09:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Out of interest, the art of propelling a lighter with oars is preserved by The Thames Barge Driving Race. Alansplodge (talk) 18:41, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I notice that those lighters are 30-ton barges (which presumably indicates their cargo capacity). Thirty tons would be a lot of silver, but we cannot know (unless Williams or another source tells us) what the capacity of a mid-19th century lighter in Peru would have been. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 176.24.44.161 (talk) 21:24, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

The size of a lighter would depend upon where it went from the ship. A Thames lighter would normally lie alongside a quay and so might be quite large, a lighter landing stuff onto a beach might be not much larger that a big rowing boat. Another factor is tides, where there is a larger range a larger lighter can come inshore and wait for the tide to go out allowing carts or other means to come alongside. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Nowadays the writer would probably just say "a boatload" of whatever. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:42, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

2022 Japan flood northern and central regions evacuation order

There was a flood in Japan in 2022[2], and around 500,000 people were given an evacuation order. I am trying to find a map, or a list of areas that this evacuation order covers.

Level 4 evacuation orders are in place across Akita, Aomori, Fukui, Fukushima, Ishikawa, Iwate, Niigata, and Yamagata prefectures, affecting more than 324,000 people.

Yamagata prefecture alone has around 1,000,000 people, so I am guessing that the evacuation order only covered parts of Yamagata prefecture. I am guessing that the government published some sort of list of towns and cities that were covered by the evacuation order, and this list was available back in 2022. (Or it could have been a map.) Now I am trying to find that list/map. OptoFidelty (talk) 23:48, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

The page to which you linked has, "Officials are expanding evacuation orders to include parts of Akita, Aomori, Fukui, Fukushima, Ishikawa, Iwate, Niigata, and Yamagata prefectures" [my underlining. --L.], so the evacuation orders presumably also covered only parts of other prefectures.  --Lambiam 12:52, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that's correct. Only parts of those prefectures are covered. I am trying to find which parts exactly. OptoFidelty (talk) 08:53, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

March 1

33 Gods not 330 million gods

Thirty-three gods

Many reliable sources and many Western publication has mentioned that Hindus have 33 crore Gods, 33 million gods and 330 million Gods.

‘33 mn Gods…not one producing oxygen’: Charlie Hebdo releases cartoon on India’s Covid crisis

The 33 Million Gods of Hinduism

https://www.asianstudies.org/publications/eaa/archives/hinduism-330-million-gods/

Many have debated that the word koti is misinterpreted as crore.

The word ‘koti’ in Sanskrit means crores and also it means ‘type’. In this term ‘33 koti’ means 33 types and not 33 crores. (10 million) Nightingagleyt (talk) 09:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Did you have a question you wanted us to respond to about this? Blueboar (talk) 12:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

March 2

Entering the Australian House of Representatives

I live in Dunkley, so I would have been paying attention to yesterday's by-election even if I didn't want to. Now that Jodie Belyea has won, is she my federal member, or is there a date in the future when she will become my federal member? I know in the US, election winners take office on a certain date, and in the UK, they take office instantly, but I don't know about here. Nyttend (talk) 19:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't find an exact answer, but I assume that since Australia follows the Westminster system, that they hold their office as soon as they are elected. However: A Member may not take part in any proceedings of the House until sworn in. It is also considered that a Member should not participate in the work of committees until sworn in. House of Representatives Practice: Swearing-in. Alansplodge (talk) 20:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

In Canada, the swearing in takes place within days following a by-election, as soon as the winner is certified. This is usually almost immediate, except in very close races where a re-count may be ordered, in which case it can take a few weeks for the process to unfold. I expect it's the same for Australia as our political systems are very much alike. Xuxl (talk) 21:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Nyttend -- Congressmembers elected in a regularly-scheduled election take office on a fixed date, but sometimes those elected to fill an unexpectedly vacant seat can take office quickly even in the U.S. What info Wikipedia has is apparently at By-election#United States, though we don't call them "By-elections", but instead "Special elections"... AnonMoos (talk) 02:25, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

AnonMoos, oops, yes, I wasn't thinking there. Of course winners of special elections take office soon, or otherwise David Curson wouldn't have been in Congress at all. I don't remember ever having a special election in districts where I lived, or maybe I wouldn't have made that mistake. Nyttend (talk) 02:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Presumably the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) gets to declare the winner, and that person becomes the new member at that moment. The swearing in matters for actually participating in parliament or being in any formal position. HiLo48 (talk) 02:33, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Specifically the returning officer. Alansplodge (talk) 14:37, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

The answer is that Jodie Belyea is not officially your member - yet. That's because the Australian Electoral Commission has not yet certified the result, which they cannot do until the last of the postal votes arrive in about a week or so, even if the numbers of them could not possibly affect the result. And then there may be preferences that have to be allocated yada yada. But when the AEC is finally able to make its certification, Belyea will have been your member since election day, 2 March, and she will be backpaid accordingly. It's true that she must be sworn in, in order to participate in the business of the House of Reps, but that doesn't impinge on the fact that she will have been the member for Dunkley since 2 March. That's no different from the winning US presidential candidate becoming president at noon on 20 January because the US Constitution says so, but being unable to execute the functions of their office until they're sworn in (usually within an hour of noon anyway). -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:38, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Out of intersest, in the UK, the winner of the 2024 Rochdale by-election on 29 February, was sworn in yesterday, only six days later. Alansplodge (talk) 14:05, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

March 4

Missouri Republican Caucus - popular vote

Is the popular vote result of the 2024 Missouri Republican presidential caucuses - statewide and/or per county - published anywhere? --KnightMove (talk) 12:04, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

"The MO GOP state party is only reporting the results in terms of state delegate equivalents and will not be providing the raw vote totals."[3] --jpgordon^{𝄢&#jffjjx1d106;𝄐𝄇} 23:42, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

March 6

Ukrainian irredentism

Someone on the interwebs, in connection with Victoria Nuland's recently announced upcoming retirement,[4] described Nuland as a "Ukrainian irredentist". I think that was supposed to be a snarky perjorative since that person has considered Nuland to be perennially hostile to Russia. But I had to look up irredentism and I'm having trouble understanding this usage. Is the writer insinuating that Nuland wants Ukraine to annex Russia? Obviously that goes beyond her opposing Russia's efforts to annex Ukraine. Thanks. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:0:0:0:5612 (talk) 04:43, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Probably a question for your "someone on the interwebs" rather than us. We have a (very short) article on Ukrainian irredentism, but I don't see a connection with Ms Nuland Chuntuk (talk) 09:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps they were referring to the Krim, Donbas and Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts, which, as is well known, are Russian territory. Those vile Ukrainian fascist nationalists want to annex them, claiming that they are historically Ukrainian.  --Lambiam 12:14, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Comparable to German nationalists wanting to reconquer the Polish Corridor in the 1920s lol. Which they actually did during World War II, only to have their conquest be reversed once they lost that war. They also ended up losing a whole lot more territory after the end of that war. 172.56.186.104 (talk) 00:45, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

The Egyptian singer Nazek (1928-1999)

Could someone please finally write already the long overdue article about Egyptian singer Nazek (also spelled Nazik): I can't create articles.

There's enough stuff to get you started at the Egyptian Arabic wiki: https://arz.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B2%D9%83

On Google 'Nazek' will probably take your farther than 'Nazik'. Ideally use the Arabic script 'نازك'.

Thanks. 178.51.93.5 (talk) 18:22, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

You can create a draft WP:AfC. 2A02:C7B:210:BA00:8458:F303:FDB1:5E14 (talk) 18:30, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can see, arz:نازك does not have a single citation to a published source.

Whatever may be the case in other Wikipedias, in English Wikipedia an article without published reliable sources is impossible.

Whether you write it yourself, or in the (unlikely but possible) case that you find somebody else willing to write it, absolutely the very first task will be finding reliable published sources which meet all the criteria in golden rule - these do not have to be in English, and they do not have to be online, but they do have to have been reliably published. If such sources do not exist, then there cannot be an article on Nazik in English Wikipedia. ColinFine (talk) 15:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Sadly, the article on the Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia does not have even a single source. However, she also has an article on the Arabic Wikipedia, ar:نازك, which cites two sources. I cannot evaluate whether they are reliable.  --Lambiam 08:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Suffolk Gazette Batman

I've stumbled upon this story, but the gazette's about page rather frankly admits they publish hoaxes. If so, where does that bearded Batman photo comes from? At first glance doesn't look like AI-generated to me. Brandmeister^talk 23:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Snopes has covered this before. It's the work of Foto Marvellini. GalacticShoe (talk) 23:37, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Sly asses... Brandmeister^talk 01:02, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

March 7

Women in war

What war had the highest percentage of combatants that were women? Was there ever an extreme case where it was a significant number, perhaps in antiquity or medieval times? Even in some of their most notable cases like in the USSR during WWII, they were only a single digit percentage at best, I believe. — THORNFIELD HALL ^(Talk) 11:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

The January Uprising of 1863 was described as the "Women's War" because the number of women participants "exceeded any previous armed struggles" (but without giving exact proportion / number, from what I see). Also, worth of investigating what proportion did the Dahomey Amazons constitute in their native army (our article says that "the lack of men likely led the kings of Dahomey to recruit women into the army"). Brandmeister^talk 12:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

We have an article The Maidens' War, for what it's worth... AnonMoos (talk) 23:03, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

March 8

UK House of Commons votes

Does anybody know where I can find the ayes and nays on bills passed in the House of Commons 1960s-1990s? This keeps coming up with no results even when you enter the correct criteria. — THORNFIELD HALL ^(Talk) 05:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Does this help? https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/divisions/index.html doktorb _words^deeds 05:25, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

I think so, thanks. — THORNFIELD HALL ^(Talk) 05:36, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Being pedantic, it's "Aye and No" in the Commons. "Nay" is from the US Congress (how quaint). Alansplodge (talk) 15:25, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Trump v. Anderson

Regarding the Scoutus ruling in Trump v. Anderson, has it been (reasonably) argued that the Article One of the United States Constitution prohibition against ex post facto laws makes it impossible for Congress to issue a law or ruling that disqualifies Donald Trump fron the presidency? Sjö (talk) 13:20, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

An ex post facto ("after the fact") law is intended to punish someone for doing something that was legal at the time they did it. Inciting an insurrection is already illegal. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:15, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

A lawyer may furthermore (reasonably) argue that the term "ex post facto" is understood to be confined to laws of a criminal or penal nature,^[5] and that the disqualification clause of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment does not have the intention or effect of criminalizing acts or imposing penalties any more than the disqualification of minors or non-citizens does, and neither will new legislation for enforcing this provision.  --Lambiam 16:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Notwithstanding what I consider to be the clear logic of Baseball Bugs’ position, disqualification laws in other contexts have been held to be unlawfully retroactive when applied to unlawful conduct preceding the enactment of the disqualification law. In this particular context, however, the historical evidence shows that the 14th Amendment was intended to apply to a past insurrection, so I do not think an ex post facto argument would work. John M Baker (talk) 18:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Did the OP intend that this law pass both houses, and be signed into law, prior to this year’s election? That’s highly optimistic thinking, but since the election has not yet been held, then it would not (likely) be a case of ex post facto legislation. If it were to be enacted after the vote, it might be argued otherwise. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 12:36, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

If someone's actions are considered crimes because of some law, but the law was only enacted after these actions were committed, then it is (with respect to these actions) an ex post facto law. This is independent of the question whether these consequences can have a retroactive effect.  --Lambiam 16:48, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Muhammad and the Bible

Hello, reference desk! At Talk:Muhammad_and_the_Bible#Baháʼí we're struggling to find some WP-good sources that has written about what the Bahai faith thinks of the article topic. Please join and help us, if you can. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:53, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Medicare

Medicare asks subscribers under many circumstances if a person has "end stage renal disease" or "black lung" for this matter. Why do they ask those questions? Thanks 107.191.0.90 (talk) 21:27, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Because US legislation gives Medicare additional resources to provide special services for patients with end stage renal disease. Black lung coverage is a separate program, since it is an occupational disease. Cullen328 (talk) 21:35, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

See this fact sheet on end state renal disease care and this fact sheet on the black lung program. Cullen328 (talk) 21:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Alabama state income tax

Alabama apparently allows a $300 individual income tax deduction for each dependent.[6] Does anyone know if this has been successfully claimed when the dependent is a frozen embryo? Is there a limit to how many you can have? Just wondering, not seeking advice. I don't currently live in Alabama, but maybe California can set up a similar program. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:4043:7961:893C:EC1 (talk) 21:55, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

I can see where you might be going with this, but I suspect that the annual cost of keeping an embryo frozen exceeds $300. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 176.24.44.161 (talk) 00:20, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

You can't deduct not-yet-born children on your income tax forms, so presumably that same rule would apply to frozen embryos. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

The current tax year (in which this fanciful ruling was made) ends December 31, 2024 … so, the answer is “No, no one has filed their 2024 taxes yet.” DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 12:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Why is this reminding me the crazy marshmallows episode in the 2021 Ghostbusters: Afterlife movie? - That would be, because I've seen the movie, obviously.--Askedonty (talk) 13:24, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh, YOU were the one! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:53, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Well, yes. The one I had not seen, was that the one --Askedonty (talk) 18:21, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

March 9

George Eliot, Harriet Taylor, John Stuart Mill

Did George Eliot have much contact and friendship with Harriet Taylor and John Stuart Mill?Rich (talk) 01:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

A Google search revealed nothing obvious, but note that:

The Mills spent most of their married life in their Blackheath Park home, with just Haji and Helen Taylor for company. They had already largely withdrawn from society, perhaps due to the gossip that their relationship generated. [7]

Alansplodge (talk) 17:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok. I thought, all being famous, and having similar sentiments, and George Eliot being scandalous herself, they would have certainly known of each other and felt comfortable communicating or even spending time together. Rich (talk) 22:10, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

In 1875, five years before her death, George Eliot wrote to a correspondent that "I never had any personal acquaintance with J. S. Mill – never saw him, to my knowledge, except in the House of Commons". In the six volumes of Mill's collected letters George Eliot isn't mentioned by name once. That looks pretty conclusive. --Antiquary (talk) 17:22, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Teatre Lliure/Mercat de les Flors

Question on something not covered at all in the English-language article on the Teatre Lliure (possibly the leading Catalan-language theater). Their current main stage, Teatre Fabià Puigserver, is in a building that was originally the Agriculture building of the 1929 Barcelona International Exposition (and has a sign over the main entrance saying "AGRICVLTURA"). There is another building next to it which currently has signs designating it (in Catalan) as "Mercat de les Flors. Centre de les Arts en Moviment" (i.e. "Flower Market. Center for Arts in Motion"). That latter building also looks the correct style and age to have been built for the Exposition.

The Spanish-language es:Teatre Lliure says, without clear citation, "En 1991, el alcalde de Barcelona Pasqual Maragall les ofreció ser parte del proyecto Ciutat del Teatre que abarcaba la rehabilitación del antiguo edificio del es:Mercado de las Flores, un edificio de nueva construcción para el es:Instituto del Teatro y el Palacio de la Agricultura de la Exposición Internacional de Barcelona de 1929 para el Lliure," which seems clear enough: the theater building is the former Palace of Architecture, and the Mercat de les Flors is a separate building, as is the new Institut del Teatre. All of this is easy to reconcile with what I can see on the ground.

The Catalan-language ca:Teatre Lliure refers to "l'antic Palau de l'Agricultura" and "rehabilitació en el mateix Palau de l'Agricultura" (again, lacking citations).

All of this would suggest that the former Palace of Agriculture, current Teatre Lliure, is an entirely different building than the Mercat de les Flors. However, all but three pictures at commons:Category:Mercat de les Flors appear to be of the Palace of Agriculture/Teatre Lliure; the Catalan-language description of the category says, "Antic Mercat de les Flors a Barcelona (Catalunya), ubicat en un dels edificis del Palau de l'Agricultura de l'Exposició Universal de 1929… actualment… una de les dues seus del Teatre Lliure" (the other location being the rehabilitated theater in Gràcia, their original location). commons:User:Estendartlluent, who wrote the gist of that, is long gone. The English and Spanish descriptions there look like they just trusted his word.

In short, I think Commons conflated and confounded the two buildings, and has very few images of the real Mercat de les Flors. But since everything else I'm dealing with is without citation, I was hoping someone who knows Barcelona well might sort this out more quickly than I would. In particular:

1. Was the Palace of Agriculture at some time part of the flower market (in which case Estendartlluent might have been less wrong than I am inclined to think)?
2. Am I correct that the building now designated "Mercat de les Flors. Centre de les Arts en Moviment" also dates back to the Exposition?
3. If I am correct about that, what role did it have during the Exposition?

Jmabel | Talk 21:53, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

The article Exposició Internacional de Barcelona on the Catalan Wikipedia states that the Palau de l'Agricultura "is currently known as 'Mercat de les Flors' and is occupied by the Ciutat del Teatre, which comprises the Institut del Teatre, the Teatre Lliure Foundation, the Mercat de les Flors Municipal Theater and the Teatre Fabià Puigserver".  --Lambiam 07:14, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

The article on the Ciutat del Teatre has this: "It brings together three large facilities: the Teatre del Mercat de les Flors in Plaça Margarida Xirgu; the Teatre Lliure in the old Palau de l'Agricultura which houses two halls: Fabià Puigserver and th Lliure Space as well as the Institut del Teatre, with the classrooms, two performance rooms, and the Centre de Documentació i Museu de les Arts Escèniques." This is confusing. The Teatre Lliure is found on Google maps here. Where is the main entrance with the text "AGRICVLTVRA" (photo) located? Not just the Commons, but several other sources, label images of the building housing the Teatre Lliure as "Mercat de les Flors",^[8][9][10] while other images of the Mercat de les Flors, including on Commons, seem to show a different building. It seems to be here, in a separate building, but it is possible that in 1929 it was part of a larger connected complex.  --Lambiam 08:03, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

It may be useful for me to upload my photos first, so I can illustrate. I was hoping to get the information straight before uploading, but that may be a lost cause. I should get to that within 24 hours. (The Institut del Teatre being a modern building, and Spain lacking true commercial Freedom of Panorama, I can't upload pictures of that third building to Commons, but I'll put a couple on Flickr.) - Jmabel | Talk 09:02, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

My best explanation of the situation is that the original Palace of Agriculture covered quite some area, and was either one large and complex building with several halls, or a building complex. This whole complex building, or building complex, became later known as "Mercat de les Flors". Parts of the complex building or building complex were demolished and new constructions were erected. The name "Mercat de les Flors" does not now refer to one specific building but to the whole area covered by the current complex of buildings that were once part of the Palace of Agriculture or newly built on its area. Floor plans of the 1929 Exposition might be helpful. My hypothesis that the name "Mercat de les Flors" does not refer to a building explains all things that appeared confusing.  --Lambiam 15:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

The complex shown in this photo of the Palacio de la Agricultura, also seen in slightly cropped form in an old postcard here, shows a contiguous building that is larger than any of the older buildings currently on the site. It seems to form three sides of a pentagon, while the two sides not visible because they are to the back of the camera appear to be still mostly extant, visible here.  --Lambiam 16:14, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Interesting. That last looks like except for a small part at right, that might be a now entirely demolished wing. - Jmabel | Talk 17:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

A (presumably historic) drawing of the Palace, seen in bird view, is found here. It shows one huge contiguous building, considerably more convoluted than a simple pentagon. The enclosed plaza is non-convex and has more than five sides (seven to eight depending on what one counts as a "side"). It may have enough detail to locate the remaining pieces of the Palace in this image.  --Lambiam 17:06, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

That's not as useful as File:Expo1929-PlanolUbicacions.jpg. Compare the Palace of Agriculture there (Number 5, at lower left) to this from Google maps. Yes, that picture showed a now-demolished wing (except for the part at extreme right, which is where the present-day restaurant of the theater is). And then working from both maps: the building now known as "Mercat de les Flors. Centre de les Arts en Moviment" was always a separate building, and used to be more extensive, covering much of the ground now covered by the Institut de Teatre.

Yes, it was all part of the Palacio de Agricultura during the Exposition. I still have some doubts as to whether the whole thing was later known as the Mercat de les Flors, and I'd love to see a citation for that, but at least it is now making sense. - Jmabel | Talk 17:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

According to the accompanying text here one of the preserved parts after a large part of the Palace was demolished became the Mercat de les Flors, I guess because it actually served as a flower market. It is possible, though, that this term is popularly used today to refer to the whole complex. For figuring out if this is indeed the case, we need to examine current usage by locals.  --Lambiam 17:26, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, something like that. https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/informaciourbanistica/cerca/ca/fitxa/3072/--/--/cp/ is official from the city of Barcelona, shows both buildings and gives both names. Also, in the text, it acknowledges that part of the complex has been destroyed and that the use of part of the complex for some years as a flower market resulted in the entire complex becoming known as the Mercat de les Flors.

So now I think I have what I need in order to do cleanup on Commons & Wikidata. I leave it to someone else to follow through on the various Wikipedias. - Jmabel | Talk 17:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

@Lambiam, thank you very much for your help here, especially that older photo showing the now-demolished wing. - Jmabel | Talk 19:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

March 10

Is this vessel unique?

Are there any parallels to the lovely item on the block? https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/256977 Temerarius (talk) 14:53, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

M. Daumer, painter

Who is the artist, signed M. Daumer, on this print [11]? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

By far the most famous artist with a similar name was Daumier, but he had different initials and was not really into birds and flowers, so it's not him. AnonMoos (talk) 23:05, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Some searches online found an artist by the name of Mike Daumer, but none of the signatures seem to match. GalacticShoe (talk) 01:07, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Where to find information on a subject

Hello, I would like to know about the legality of farting on someone. Would it be considered assault or battery? And if so, under what circumstances? Has anyone ever been successfully prosecuted for farting on someone else? Swomlord (talk) 18:28, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

As stated at the top of this page, we cannot give you legal advice. In any case, the law will vary from one country to another. Consult a lawyer. Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Ancient paving stone tiling

I don't know whether this question is best asked in humanities, mathematics, or science.

Many years ago I ran across an online article about ways to tile various sizes of rectangular and square stones in ancient times, for use as outdoor paving in well-to-do yards and possibly public spaces. I recall the article showed examples of patterns used in history.

The tile article on Wikipedia mentions tiling in an ancient context but not the specific technique of arranging squares and rectangles in a modular periodic way, but it looks non-periodic due to the arrangement.

Searching online, I can find examples of what modern flooring marketers call a "Versailles" pattern: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/527061962610986488/ - that one is made of four shapes, two sizes of square and two sizes of rectangle. Here is a similar one tiled out: https://www.tilesbay.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/thumbnail/1000x1000/fcd7d8d06e95a3dc3254afa7d33852f2/m/o/montauk_blue_16_sft_ashlar_pattern_gauged_slate_6_.jpg - although that site calls it an "Ashlar" pattern.

The online article I read years ago had examples that were far more complex, using more or less variations of squares and rectangles. I could swear there was a name for this tiling technique but I cannot find anything except that "Versailles" marketing term. Does anyone know what this is called? ~Anachronist (talk) 23:24, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Tesselation ? --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 06:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

I found Typical Flagstone Paving Patterns (maybe not the exact site you had in mind). AnonMoos (talk) 06:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

March 11

Books about the post-WWI peace settlement by contemporary authors that were written during WWI?

Which books about the post-WWI peace settlement (predictions or proposals for it) were written by contemporary authors during WWI (in anticipation for the future, when WWI would have ended and there would need to be a crafting of the post-WWI peace settlement)? 172.56.186.238 (talk) 04:02, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

By far the most famous during-the-war statement about the principles of a future peace (though not a book) was Wilson's Fourteen Points, and the Wikipedia article has a lot about issues considered for a post-war settlement. Anyway, there was a limited ability to plan ahead, since it wasn't too clear that Germany was losing the war until the 1918 German spring offensive failed to land a knockout blow (just before that, Germany had removed Russia from the war in the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk). AnonMoos (talk) 06:43, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Friedrich Naumann, Mitteleuropa (1915). — Kpalion^(talk) 11:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks; got any other examples? List all of the other ones that you can think of, please. 172.56.186.104 (talk) 00:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Write in candidates

In the few states that do not require registration of write in candidates, how do election officials know who the person is in the unlikely event they win? — THORNFIELD HALL ^(Talk) 07:37, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Are you using "states" as a synonym for "countries", or are you referring to subdivisions of a particular country? If the latter, which one out of the roughly 200 countries of the World? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.186.221 (talk) 08:53, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Not many of these roughly 200 countries of the World have (a) subdivisions referred to as "states"; (b) electoral systems regulated not nationally, but separately by these states; that (c) include, specifically, systems that allow write-in candidates.  --Lambiam 11:19, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

True, but for those of us without these facts pertaining to all countries at our fingertips, are we expected to check them for all 200, or to wait for the Querant to tell us which they meant? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.186.221 (talk) 23:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Experience tells me that the majority of people on the refdesk asking questions about unspecified countries mean the US. USAns are far more likely than most people to forget that the world is larger than their home country. This can be somewhat explained by the fact that they don't have to use a foreign language here, but I doubt that's the only reason. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

American states. — THORNFIELD HALL ^(Talk) 09:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

It is (IMO) a safe bet that such candidates will only win after a strong write-in campaign, which, to even stand a chance, must identify the candidate. This means that false claimants can easily be ruled out.  --Lambiam 11:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Rules will vary state-by-state. Our write-in candidate article links to the relevant rules. However, having had a quick search through the rules for New Hampshire, New Jersey and Oregon, I can't see any explicit rules on identifying the candidate.

If two identically-named individuals claimed to be the winner then it would probably be obvious whose claim was valid, as Lambian said, though I suspect it might end up going to court. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:37, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) See Write-in candidate. I find American electoral law rather opaque. This website [12] suggests accessing your state election office's website and entering "write-in-candidate" in the search bar. There's a state-by-state guide at [13]. Two more detailed explanations from Pennsylvania: [14], [15]. 2A00:23D0:F66:7901:DB0:CE41:B3FB:AC2F (talk) 12:11, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

These more detailed explanations state that the Board of Elections will send a letter asking for confirmation to a write-in winner, but do not explain how the Board of Elections will decide which address to send the letter to in case of an undeclared write-in winner, who may even have namesakes.  --Lambiam 13:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

First Letter of Michael I Cerularius to Peter of Antioch

Hi there, where can I find a full text version of the First Letter (item #2) of Cerularius? If using Migne, please give the exact volume and page number AND a link to the exact page where the letter starts. Thank you! 64.231.206.241 (talk) 09:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

"Migne" = Patrologia Graeca.  --Lambiam 10:44, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Is this it? Volume 120, page 781–2: letter labeled Γ′.  --Lambiam 11:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

British MPs changing party

Lee "beautiful capital city" Anderson has now joined Reform UK. So many of those who voted him into office as a Tory MP may be a bit upset. But what can they do? What if he had defected to the Official Monster Raving Loony Party? Or to some other made-up crackpot party?? 205.239.40.3 (talk) 13:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

They can vote for someone else at the next election. Until then, they just have to be upset. Blueboar (talk) 13:24, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Democracy in action. What's next, I wonder. What if he decides to join Hamas? 205.239.40.3 (talk) 13:27, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

He (or indeed any other Briton, MP or not, who did so) would almost certainly be charged with membership of a proscribed organisation contrary to section 11(1) of the Terrorism Act 2000. The maximum sentence is 14 years' imprisonment. If he were convicted and sentenced to more than a year's imprisonment, he would automatically be disqualified from sitting as an MP under the Representation of the People Act 1981, and so would lose his seat. If he were convicted and sentenced to imprisonment of a year or less, he would be subject to the recall provisions of the Recall of MPs Act 2015; if a recall petition were successful, he would lose his seat. None of this, of course, is even remotely plausible. Proteus (Talk) 13:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, because there's such a backlog in the criminal courts, there'd be a General Election before he even appeared. 205.239.40.3 (talk) 14:00, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

There tends to be a miraculous opening in the listings whenever a high-profile case needs to be heard. Make of that what you will. Proteus (Talk) 15:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

They can run in circles, scream and shout. Or they may rejoice, because they themselves too think Reform UK is the better party. Or they may regret he did not instead join the Official Monster Raving Loony Party. Or they may just shrug and go about their business.  --Lambiam 13:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

I think they only do running through fields of wheat.... 205.239.40.3 (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

In the British electoral system you elect an individual to represent the constituency at Westminster. Technically you don't vote for a party, though if a candidate wishes to align himself with a particular party that may help you to decide. Anderson is free to act as he sees fit in (hopefully) the best interests of the country and his constituency. As Blueboar said, the electorate can voice their opinion at the next election. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:48, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

In 2020 Anderson voted for Anthony Mangnall's Recall of MPs (Change of Party Affiliation) Bill, which stated it was "clearly a breach of the spirit of the contract between ourselves and our constituents" to change political party. The legislation would have meant that any defecting MP would become subject to a recall petition. If it was successful, with at least 10 per cent of eligible voters having signed it, this would trigger a by-election. [16] 86.170.222.3 (talk) 17:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Such people can choose to remain in parliament and take their chances at the next election, or resign (it's not technically that in the UK, but the process produces an equivalent result) and cause a by-election. Then they are usually on the horns of a dilemma: on the one hand, face attacks from those who object to a member changing allegiances in mid-stream, contrary to the wishes of those who voted for them, and insist they resign immediately; or, on the other hand, face attacks from those who object to having their precious lives disrupted by having to vote in by-election ... except, they don't have to vote at all in the UK. In Australia, where voting is compulsory, these are the usual scenarios. Nobody wins. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:31, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Strewth! But then it is pretty hot down there, isn't it... Martinevans123 (talk) 20:02, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

There's an Official Monster Raving Loony Party in the US. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Meh… during his years in parliament, Winston Churchill changed party multiple times. It isn’t always a bad thing. Blueboar (talk) 21:08, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Whoah! He'd be well chuffed, I'm sure. "A seditious Middle Temple Lawyer" now "posing as a half-naked fakir".... Lee Anderson on Keir Starmer? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:24, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Ranleigh, England

The Australian contralto Kate Rooney (later Kirkham) was reported in 1909 as saying she had some successes at Ranleigh:

"I have sung each year at Ranleigh for a long time now, and always thoroughly enjoyed the season there, it is so interesting to see the most important people in London in that way. Royalty is often there, the King of Spain is a member, and always goes to Ranleigh when he is in England, and nearly everyone else is a celebrity in his or her own way."

I can find no place or institution of similar name of the relevant period (1902 to 1908). Can anyone shed some light? I'm also stymied by vital dates for the lady in question. What I have so far is at User:Doug butler/Kate Rooney (singer). Doug butler (talk) 22:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Maybe Ranelagh Gardens (the article states that an alternate spelling is Ranleigh)? Clarityfiend (talk) 23:07, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

I thought that too, but that article seems to say it closed down a hundred years earlier Doug butler (talk) 23:16, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

(ec)"Ranleigh" is, of course, a good representation of the English pronunciation of Ranelagh. And we read in The Queenslander of 17th July 1909 that "For the seventh year in succession Miss Kate Rooney is now fulfilling her engagement during the "London season" as solo vocalist at Ranelagh Club, where her singing is received with the greatest enthusiasm. This engagement will occupy her time till the eve of her departure for Australia". DuncanHill (talk) 23:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

You've nailed it! Thank you. Doug butler (talk) 23:20, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

March 12

Afghan Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Turkemen: Emigration from Afghanistan?

Why aren't Afghan Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Turkmen emigrating from Afghanistan and into their own nation-states (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan) in large numbers? They would have a better quality of life there, both economically and in terms of personal freedoms (maybe with the possible exception of totalitarian Turkmenistan; both Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, while still dictatorships, are likely freer right now than Afghanistan is, which is oppressive as Hell ever since 2021 under the Deobandi-influenced Islamic fundamentalist Taliban). Is it because those countries don't want them moving over there? If so, why exactly? Existing high unemployment?

Kazakhstan accepted large numbers (around a million) of Oralman from other countries post-independence, but what made Kazakhstan unique in being willing to do this relative to southern Central Asia? 172.56.186.104 (talk) 00:48, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure that the "pull" factors are as strong as you think. Just because someone is ethnically X, it doesn't automatically follow that he wants to live in the country of X-stan. Uzbekistan was a semi-hellhole under Islam Karimov, and Turkmenistan is still kind of one today -- we have whole articles on Corruption in Uzbekistan and Corruption in Turkmenistan. And Tajikistan is a rather small country. AnonMoos (talk) 03:05, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Uzbekistan was a shithole under Karimov, but his successor Mirziyoyev appears to be making Uzbekistan better. Uzbekistan's Freedom in the World rating has significantly improved under Mirziyoyev, albeit from extraordinarily low levels. And Tajikistan's population density isn't that high. Granted, most of Tajikistan is mountainous, but surely Dushanbe is capable of massively increasing in size, no? (You are correct about Turkmenistan, though. It's much wealthier than Afghanistan but still a very totalitarian place. I mentioned this in my OP here.)

As for why someone from a particular ethnic group would want to live in their ethnic homeland, that's because this is how it has often happened throughout history, especially over the last couple of centuries. When the various national borders were being redrawn after WWI, they were often redrawn on ethnic lines, sometimes with plebiscites. The areas that didn't get plebiscites sometimes saw border revisions later on, such as the Sudetenland and (violently) Danzig. Putin regathered Crimea in 2014 on national self-determination grounds, which might be legit (certainly nowhere near 97% support at the time of this referendum, though) though there is no way of knowing for sure yet because the 2014 referendum there was almost certainly rigged. And there have been cases of diaspora immigration to the homeland: In addition to Kazakhstan, both Germany and Israel come to mind as having this on a huge scale. Granted, some of this immigration was likely for financial reasons, but this factor also applies here, or at least it should. 172.56.186.104 (talk) 04:49, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

There's also another very concrete way that southern Central Asia is better than Afghanistan: Women's rights. Southern Central Asian governments are nowhere near as oppressive towards women as the Taliban are, perhaps because Communism has instilled a sense of secularization in them. While most Afghans who care about women's rights would probably prefer to move to the West, one would think that southern Central Asia would be an attractive alternative destination for them if they can't actually enter the West--or at least would be if southern Central Asia will have its doors be open to Afghan immigrants, even only to those of their own titular nationalities (Turkmens, Uzbeks, and Tajiks). 172.56.186.104 (talk) 05:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Grandchildren of Jews in the Diaspora being raised Jewish

What percentage of grandchildren of Jews in the Diaspora are raised Jewish? Does anyone here have any data for this?

AFAIK, it appears likely that a majority/most of the ones who live in Israel identify as Jewish (even if they did not necessarily identify that way before they moved to Israel), but I'm curious about the ones who live in the Diaspora specifically here.

(For the source about how the ones in Israel identify, I made the relevant deduction based on this:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/even-among-its-advocates-changing-the-law-of-return-proves-trickier-than-expected/#:~:text=Rabbi%20Shmuel%20David%2C%20the%20chief,from%20the%20former%20Soviet%20Union.

"Elkin, Malinovsky, Rif and Belenky all noted that while Israelis of "no religion" may not be Jewish according to Jewish law, or halacha, they nevertheless consider themselves to be Jewish. Indeed, a survey by the One Million Lobby found that 94 percent of Russian-speaking Israelis said they identify as Jewish, even though only 74 percent said they are considered Jewish by the Chief Rabbinate.")

172.56.186.104 (talk) 00:59, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean "Raised in the knowledge that they are ethnically Jewish" or "Raised to follow Jewish religious beliefs and practices"? AnonMoos (talk) 02:42, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Either one. Especially if they are not raised in any other religion, such as Christianity. 172.56.186.104 (talk) 04:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Which Jewish diaspora are you referring to?  --Lambiam 10:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Korean War and Vietnam War draft registration cards for American men?

Do American men of military age during the Korean War and Vietnam War have draft registration cards comparable to those that American men of military age during both WWI and WWII have? 172.56.186.104 (talk) 01:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything in the "Selective Service System" article, but Draft-card burning wouldn't have been possible without it... AnonMoos (talk) 02:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks; I wonder if the draft cards themselves looked similar to the WWI and WWII era US ones.

Fun fact: WWI and WWII era US draft cards are a great way to find a document from early on in one's life, or at least from the middle of one's life, that has a full date of birth for people who subsequently became supercentenarians or at least close to it and who don't have either birth records or baptismal records. US Census entries don't give full dates of birth, and before the 1970 US Census, only the 1900 US Census even gave a month of birth in addition to the birth year (exceptions for babies were made in earlier US Censuses). 172.56.186.104 (talk) 04:54, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

See File:DraftcardRenJuan.jpg for Vietnam and File:King,_Stoddard_WW1_draft_card.jpg for WWI RudolfRed (talk) 05:08, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I already know what both WWI and WWII draft cards look like from FamilySearch.org. But if you also have a photo of a Korean War draft card, I'd like to please see it. 172.56.186.104 (talk) 05:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Here's Elvis's 1953 draft card [17] and here's a 1969 card: [18]. Abductive (reasoning) 07:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Korean War and Vietnam War draft cards don't list people's race like WWI and WWII draft cards do. Was this due to the US becoming less racist? 172.56.186.104 (talk) 07:53, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

The racist filth resisted: see Racial segregation in the United States Armed Forces. Abductive (reasoning) 08:24, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Afghan separatist movements?

Has Afghanistan ever had any serious separatist movements? I don't mean local warlords ruling over just a part of the country, but actual Afghan territories that want to secede from Afghanistan.

I'm wondering if had the Niedermayer-Hentig Expedition succeeded and Afghanistan entered World War I on the Central Powers side, the Entente Powers would have tried to support any separatist movements in Afghanistan similar to what they did with the Arab Revolt in the Ottoman Empire. 172.56.186.104 (talk) 04:59, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Afghanistan was kind of a buffer state between Russia and British India, which means that declaring war on both simultaneously would have been an extremely risky move... AnonMoos (talk) 10:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

It's perhaps worth remembering that in "a country" where local warlords ruling over parts is the norm, the people ruled by those warlords are less likely to think of the current officially appointed central government at all. And if you're unlikely to even recognize such form of higher power, the less you'll consider establishing one yourself. That said, Ahmad Shah Durrani did "break away" parts of what was what the British considered Afghanistan to form his own eponymous empire (which, despite the name, couldn't have succeeded without a broader social movement). InedibleHulk (talk) 14:39, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

The article Failed State nay be relevant. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 18:57, 12 March 2024 (UTC)