Talk:Antisemitism

Adding ‘irrational and unjustified’?

On the Wiki page about Islamophobia, Islamophobia is described as 'the irrational and unjustified fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against the religion of Islam or Muslims in general, especially when seen as a geopolitical force or a source of terrorism.'

In the intro on the Wiki about antisemitism on the other hand, the words 'irrational and unjustified' are not included.

When looked at in context one could understand this as if to say that 1) there is no such thing as rational and justified Islamophobia and/or 2) antisemitism can be rational and justified.

I think this discrepancy has to be resolved. The easiest road to travel would be to add the words 'irrational and unjustified' to the intro on the wiki page about antisemitism (think of the uproar when you would suggest leaving these words out of the intro on Islamophobia..). I have no experience in editing Wiki articles though.

What are other peoples views on this? And could someone help editing the page? Dadavalobe (talk) 20:14, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Wise to highlight this juxtaposition given how closely linked islamophobia and anti-semitism are. 70.51.63.96 (talk) 17:05, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

That shouldn’t be in the lede for Islamophobia. I doubt sources land on a consensus definition including that caveat. Zanahary (talk) 18:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

POV tag: discussion regarding contemporary antisemitism and weaponization of antisemitism

The section on contemporary antisemitism, in the lede and the main body, does not appear to describe the parallel phenomenon of weaponization of antisemitism. Is there a reason for this? Without mention of this parallel phenomenon the article's description of contemporary antisemitism is unbalanced. Onceinawhile (talk) 18:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

A parallel phenomenon? Says who? Why should it deserve significant weight in this lead? I noticed you just created this article a few weeks ago. "Weaponization" is not widely recognized or commonly discussed when addressing antisemitism from an encyclopedic perspective. I don't see why it should be mentioned in the lead for this extremely important and widely researched topic as if it was a notable main topic. It's certainly not. HaOfa (talk) 18:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

The lede currently says (and the body follows):

In the contemporary era, a manifestation known as "new antisemitism" was identified. This concept argues the exploitation of the Arab–Israeli conflict by a large number of concealed antisemites, who may attempt to gain traction or legitimacy for their antisemitic hoaxes by portraying themselves as criticizing the Israeli government's actions.[15]Likewise, as the State of Israel has a Jewish-majority population, it is common for antisemitic rhetoric to be manifested in expressions of anti-Israeli sentiment,[16][17]though this is not always the case and such expressions may sometimes be part of wider anti–Middle Eastern sentimentwithout an exclusively antisemitic motive.[18]

This concept described here, in a large number of scholarly publications, is mirrored by the suggestion that this "new antisemitism" was coined and exaggerated for the purpose of silencing political debate about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Both phenomena are real phenomena, i.e. there really is antisemitism driven by or concealed by anti-Zionism, and there really is weaponization of false antisemitism claims in order to silence anti-Zionists.

Describing one side of this phenomenon, without the other, is clear POV – the sources treat them together, and so should we. Onceinawhile (talk) 19:17, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Use your good sources and add to this article Zanahary (talk) 15:19, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Equally: why does our article on racism not mention playing the race card? Why does our article on rape not give lots of space to False accusation of rape? Why does our article on climate change not mention climate change denial in the lead? Because these are not "parallel phenomena". Antisemitism has a long history and played a major role in world history; so-called "weaponisation" is something a few people have written about recently. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

However, I agree that new antisemitism gets too much space in the lead, and also note it's worded really weirdly. Why is the word "hoaxes" there? Presumably that should be "tropes"? BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

It definitely shouldn't occupy an entire paragraph out of four - that is ridiculously disproportionate and undue. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

According to WP:LEAD, the lead section should summarize the most important points covered in an article in a concise manner. The "weaponization of antisemitism" is not central to the broader topic of the article, which deals with the millennia-old plus phenomenon of antisemitism. The idea to devote significant portions of the little real estate we have in the lead to these accusations is ridiculous. Marokwitz (talk) 19:54, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Whatever the "phenomenon" of "weaponization of antisemitism" is, it most certainly does not meet the threshold to be mentioned in the lede of this article.

Editors should be aware this POV tag was placed by the article creator and principal author/contributor of weaponization of antisemitism, which is currently both under a renaming discussion as well as a neutrality dispute pertaining to both its title and definition/article scope.

Given the above neutrality and title disputes (along with WP:POVNAME and WP:FRINGE accusations which have been (2) on the "weaponization" page almost as long as the article has existed), the insertion of this tag could be construed as a WP:TENDENTIOUS and WP:GAMING bad faith response to those long standing neutrality discussions (if not an attempt to WP:FORUMSHOP and WP:SOAPBOX an item under currently WP:FRINGE accusation).

This tag should be removed immediately and initiating editor should follow normal procedure and attempt to include items cleanly supported by RS instead of dragging us (and this article) into a pre-litigation around a clearly contested topic. There are no grounds to contest the neutrality of the page based on the initiating argument. Mistamystery (talk) 15:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Both of which "disputes" were initiated primarily by your good self, just sayin' Selfstudier (talk) 15:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Not true. Only an informal poll and a POV tag were (recently) initiated by me in response to multiple and lengthy renaming and neutrality discussions - none of which I initiated myself (nor the recent RM, which you yourself initiated...just sayin' ;) Mistamystery (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)