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November 6

Fake vote

Hi, I am reposting my request with the hope of better luck. Now, with the understanding that the thing itself is worthless as obvious, the image in the link depicts fake Arizona electors casting their “votes” on a fake ballot for Trump in 2020. If you look at the image, I even tried to enlarge it but couldn't understand much, how were these “electors” casting this fake vote? The ballot seems drawn in such a way that maybe they had to put their signatures on it, but you can't see much. It's just a little curiosity, but I want to take it off anyway. Thank you. https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2022/01/22/how-arizonas-trump-electors-planned-deliver-him-victory/6604574001/ 93.147.230.249 (talk) 17:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your link is behind a paywall, so it is not accessible. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 18:16, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Page 353 of the final report of the January 6 Select Committee contains an image of the true and the fake Arizona ballots, side by side. It can also be seen, with a lower resolution, here. --Lambiam 07:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 7

Vote-counting mode

Hi. Ballots are counted by scanners in a central counting station, along with postal ballots. If there is this general counting mode, why can the machines (again optical scanners) placed in polling stations with closed ballot boxes, since they are configured to do so, also print the results, before the ballots can be transported to the counting center? If then the central count and precicnt count do not match? Thank you very much. 93.147.230.249 (talk) 13:01, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your question does not make sense. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You need to specify exactly which voting location you are referring to. There are many wildly different methods of voting across the United States. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 18:20, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let's take Miami-Dade County. This county uses ballot-counting machines (optical scanners), which print the results on a paper ribbon once the polls are closed. After counting at the precinct level, the ballots are equally transported and counted in a central facility?

I’ve been an official poll watcher, a few years ago. I got to stay and watch the ballots be counted at the polling place immediately after voting was done. We had witnessed that the ballot boxes were empty before voting started, that only ballots properly given to registered voters for that precinct went into the box, and that the number of ballots at the end of the day equaled the correct number. The ballots went through tabulating machine and the totals were printed out, with a copy for each party, for the reporters who stopped by and for the city clerk. Printout and ballots were turned in. Local counting and multiple copies would have made it evident if ballots had been altered or replaced. Today we can select electronic voting or a paper ballot. With electronic voting, a paper ballot is printed when done, and the voter oks it if it reflects his choices. Again the votes are locally tabulated and the totals preserved in multiple copies, as a check against fraud, but totals are sent in electronically to the clerk for quick reporting. Edison (talk) 22:53, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Language

I want to know more about English language.when it started 105.234.178.192 (talk) 13:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See History of English. --Wrongfilter (talk) 14:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 8

is Hong Kong and Macao "sovereign" states?

i just found this (List of sovereign states by Internet connection speeds) article and it lists both hk and macao (all are parts of the PR China), so that makes me wonder: are these two even be considered "sovereign"? Coddlebean (talk) 06:21, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously not, a cursory look at Sovereign state would've disabused you of this possibility. They're clearly there because the article is titled or scoped awkwardly and their inclusion in such a list seems worthwhile, not because that claim to their sovereignty is actually being made. In general, you should double-check and then discuss problems with pages on their respective talk pages, not obliquely litigate them at the Reference Desk. Remsense ‥ 论 06:29, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Their existence in the article comes from a time before the article was moved in 2022. Whether it was the move, or is the current inclusion, that is questionable is an exercise for editors and if necessary the talk page. Also @PK2: who made the move. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 12

Military budget of the USSR

At its all-time historical peak during World War 2, what percentage of the Soviet Union's GDP (or GNP) was its military budget? 2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E (talk) 16:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is highly unlikely that there is a useful answer to this question. It would require knowing the size of the USSR economy, defining those parts that are strictly part of the budget (as different from, say, survival consumption), and then defining those parts that were strictly reserved for the military (which may / may not include non-military security forces). The key issue is why do you want to know, and what might be a reasonable substitute for this particular answer? DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 20:04, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to CIA (https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00809A000700230019-4.pdf), the defense budget of USSR in 1940 and 1941 were 57.1 billion rubles and 70.9 billion rubles respectively.

According to “Harrison, M (2005) Why Didn't the Soviet Economy Collapse in 1942?”, GDP of USSR in 1940 and 1941 were US$417 billion and US$359 billion respectively.

If you could find the exchange rate of US$ to rubles in 1940 and 1941, then you would find the answer. Stanleykswong (talk) 22:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably the black-market exchange rate, not the official one. --Lambiam 23:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, but it is difficult to estimate the size of black-market. Stanleykswong (talk) 09:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I just did find the exchange rate -- 5.3 rubles to a dollar (this was the official figure, but it squares pretty well with the figures from later years that I know with certainty), which makes the percentage -- WHAT?! Only 3.7 percent?! Are my own calculations off by one zero somewhere, or is the exchange rate way off??? 2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E (talk) 05:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in an economy not based on trade, there's no need to express everything in money. There was quite a lot of trade going on in the Soviet Union (it was certainly not a fully communist economy), but still, things like budgets and GDP could to some extend be arbitrary. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The transfer of industrially manufactured commodities in the economy of USSR was also based on trade. Barter played a minor role in the whole economy. A reasonably accurate way of describing the economic system of the USSR is as state capitalism: like capitalism, but with one difference with Western capitalism: the enterprises are not privately owned but owned by the state. The consequence is that there is a single all-encompassing monopoly; domestic market competition is ruled out. For the rest, it is business as usual. In particular, the separate enterprises were required to make a profit, otherwise their management would be replaced. --Lambiam 11:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[un-indent] As for why I want to know this: I'm trying to find out the approximate maximum for military spending as a % of GDP which can be sustained without causing widespread starvation, and given the USSR's experience during World War 2, the percentage they had would be close to it! But the percentage I calculated based on the 5.3 rubles per dollar exchange ratio is obviously wrong (it's simply not conceivable that the Soviet population would suffer so much with their military budget being a mere 3.7% of their GDP, while we Americans spent forty percent of our GDP on our military with much less hardship, even taking into account the obvious inefficiency of the Soviet economy, and in fact it's inconceivable even that they would spend so little of their budget on their military while literally fighting for their very survival), so I guess the exchange ratio was way off! (Of course, if someone here knows of another example of a nation which had to suffer severe hardship due to being forced to spend most of their GDP on war, you're welcome to share it here as well -- but it would have to be from the last 2 centuries or so, because total war is a fairly recent phenomenon!) 2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6 (talk) 12:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The USA entered the industrial age about a century before Russia. The US spent the entire 19th century developing coal mines, ore mines, steel mills, railways, education centres, modern farming methods, oil refineries etc. Russia had not much of that until the communists rose to power, so the industrial base that could be repurposed to the war effort was much weaker; a far larger fraction of their economy was just producing food.

Actually, they closed the gap rather quickly, going from a mostly agrarian country to a space-faring nuclear-armed superpower in just 40 years. And so did China. Something about copying western technology, avoiding the errors western countries made, a bit of good planning.

As for countries spending a lot of their economy on the military, consider North Korea. I remember reading something like 20% some years ago. Maybe it would be better to look at the number of people working in defense, as this is harder to manipulate the the amount of money involved. PiusImpavidus (talk) 17:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 14

Air travel by ethnicity in the USA in the 1960s

What data is available on the breakdown by ethnicity of people in the USA taking commercial flights in the 1960s? I'm mostly interested in long-haul flights, but domestic flights could be useful too. Thanks, --Viennese Waltz 08:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When booking a flight, one's ethnicity is not recorded, so it would be surprising if any remotely reliable data exists. --Lambiam 10:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there's this, which relates to 2015. The source of that data seems to be a survey, not information recorded at the time of booking. It would be good to know if any similar survey was carried out in the 1960s. --Viennese Waltz 15:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See [1], [2], [3], [4] for some general discussion on the topic but very few stats. Nanonic (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1960s is long before deregulation. Flight costs were very high. If you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly. Most people could not afford tickets at the time. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 17:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but there's also the question of what would actually happen. Civil rights activists from the time could give some insight into that. At least, those that weren't killed for doing things that were actually legal (or for helping others do them). --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Regardless of skin color, passengers could fly if they could afford a ticket. In the 1960s, it was not profitable for airlines to turn customers away. I feel that the point that airlines were regulated in the 1960s is being overlooked or there is a lack of understanding about how expensive tickets were during regulation. It was nothing at all like modern air travel. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why you keep bringing up regulation and pricing. You say that "if you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly", which is undoubtedly true. But that still holds true today, and it doesn't get us anywhere closer to answering my question of what percentage of air passengers in the 1960s were white, black, Asian etc. I think Lambiam is right that there is no reliable data on this. --Viennese Waltz 06:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I keep bringing it up because I do not believe it is understood. In the 1960s, being able to fly was based on money, not race, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc... All minorities that were mostly middle-class or below were unable to afford tickets. It is not accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse airline tickets based on skin color. It is accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse to sell tickets to people who didn't have enough money to purchase them. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 15

History of skiplagging

Airline booking ploys describes the odd practice of airlines making it cheaper to buy a ticket from A to C with a stopover at B, than to buy a ticket from A to B. If the passenger just doesn't get back on the plane or the connecting flight from B to C, he saves money and the airline gets angry and wants to punish him. The article does not explain why prices are set that way. or what harm there is to the airline, if the skip lagger doesn't leave checked luggage on the plane. I'm pretty sure they never incur many delays waiting for him to reboard. Family emergencies, business crises, getting lost in an airport, or medical issues might cause an innocent passenger not to rebound. I can't find evidence of such a pricing or punishment practice in, say Greyhound buses or Amtrak trains.

The CAB apparently regulated US airline prices before 1978. Did they price multipart trips this way under regulation? Did they or airlines seek to punish passengers before 1978 who did not complete a multistage trip? Is the word "skiplag" of long standing in this usage, or just a pun from "skip a leg" of a trip? I got no help with Google book search or asking LLMs Edison (talk) 19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why does skiplagging exist? Assume you are an airline. You have a flight from A to C with a layover in B. You have no problem selling tickets from A to B, so you can charge a premium for those. However, you have trouble selling from A to C (or even B to C). There is enough to keep the flight going, but not enough to keep a good profit going. So, you discount A to C to get more people to take that flight. You might even add an extra flight from A to B at an even higher premium. As this continues, there will be a point at which the A to C is discounted to a price less than A to B.

Did this happen before deregulation? Most likely not because the government set routes and prices. They would set the route from A to B. They would set the route from A to C which may be direct and not allow a layover in B. They would set the price. They don't care about profit or popularity. They just regulate. Keep in mind that a hidden agenda of airline regulation was to keep trains and busses a viable alternative for transportation. So, they don't want planes to be cheap or routes sensible.

Now, you have A to C (with a B layover) cheaper at your airline than A to B. So, Joe the Skiplagger buys a ticket for A to C and back. He hops off at B and doesn't get back on the flight. Then, on the return flight, he tries to get back on at B even though he wasn't on the plane from C to B. What could possibly be a problem?

His luggage will go to C, not B. He will complain that his luggage is lost. It will be lost. Nobody will pick it up at C. Now, you, as the airline, have to hunt down his bags and get them to him.
FAA reporting will be wrong. You, as the airline, must report exactly who is in each seat. If you report incorrectly, you can be fined. Add up all the fines for every skiplagger. Do you want to take on that cost?
You want to turn a profit. You know that if you sell 100 tickets, only about 80 people will show up for the flight. So, you sell 120 tickets and you have people on standby to keep the plane full. On the return flight from C to B, Joe the Skiplagger didn't show up. You put someone in his seat. Then, at B, Joe shows up and tries to board. There is no seat. He has a tantrum. Social media trends that your airline refuses to seat paying customers. No point in trying to explain it because everyone knows that skiplagging isn't a problem and airlines should be happy to have as many skiplaggers as possible. Perhaps it was a bad idea to start your airline.
Back to the return flight. Joe the Skiplagger has to check in to be able to get on at B. The flight has to keep calling him at C. Joe? Where are you Joe? Your seat is here Joe? We're going to give it away if you don't show up Joe. The plane sits and waits. Joe never shows up because he is in B, not C. Finally, the gate people let someone take his seat. That means that have to "uncheck" Joe and check in another passenger. Everyone has to wait for that passenger to get on the plane, hunt for a place to put baggage, and find a seat when the plane should be pulling away from the gate. And, just because it is your airline, you get the fine from the airport for spending too many minutes at the gate. Why did you get into the airline business in the first place?
What if Joe bought a ticket for A to B instead of A to C and didn't skiplag? You'd know that the seat from B to C was empty. You could sell it. But, what is more important? Should Joe save %10 by skiplagging or should you be able to sell a $100 seat?
This list is not complete. I am only covering the main points that you need to know so you realize you don't want to run an airline.

If you look at it from the skiplagger's point of view, they are not doing anything illegal and it is the airline's fault for making the process available. If you look at it from the airline's point of view, they are losing money, increasing hassle, and dealing with FAA regulations. 68.187.174.155 (talk) 20:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of mention of the FAA here. Is this purely an American problem? HiLo48 (talk) 23:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably mostly a US thing. You need a widely used hub and spokes system for this to become common. Hidden-city ticketing mentions New Zealand for COVID-19 restrictions shenanigans and British Rail. 85.76.117.61 (talk) 15:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Further to this, in relation to ticketing on National Rail (the British railway system): it is permissible to do this (i.e. skiplagging) with "walk-up" (non-Advance) tickets, but it is explicitly prohibited if using an Advance ticket. Attempting to do this with an Advance ticket makes the passenger liable to a penalty fare or, potentially, prosecution. Advance tickets are quota-controlled and are issued for a specific service, and usually have a specific seat allocated (although some train operating companies do not offer reservable seating), whereas "walk-up" tickets such as Off-Peak Returns and Anytime Day Returns can be used on any service, sometimes subject to time restrictions. Anomalies in the fare system such that an A–C via B ticket is cheaper than A–B are not particularly common, but there are a few. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And its even possible to claim delay repay on this (compensation when passengers arrive to their destination at least 30 mins late, or 15 for specific operators). The relevant operator will ask whether you hold multiple tickets to make a claim. Additionally, its possible to claim compensation even outside the operators' control, unlike EU261. Using Trainline and possible ScotRail will give you the option of using split tickets, as well as Trainsplit.

And you didn't point out that if you have a ticket from A-B and B-C, it has to stop at station B for it to be valid. JuniperChill (talk) 19:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's true, with the slightly obscure exception that if one of the tickets held is a season ticket between A and B (or B and C), the A–C train doesn't have to stop at B as long as at least one train operated by that train operating company does stop at B. (I think that's right!) Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 22:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at NRCOT section 14, (specifically 14.3) it does seem like that's one exception I didn't know about. JuniperChill (talk) 00:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't seem like the airline loses anything if you assume the alternatives are 1) "passenger pays for flight A->B->C and flies A->B->C" or 2) "passenger pays for flight A->B->C and flies A->B". Then the price is fixed and the destination is negotiable. But that isn't how passengers work: they need to get to a particular place, and they want to pay the least possible fare. So the passenger wants to choose between 2) "passenger pays less for flight A->B->C and flies A->B" or 3) "passenger pays more for flight A->B and flies A->B". The passenger would like to pay the lower fare, but the airline would like to collect the higher fare. The airline wants the passenger to choose between 3) "passenger pays more for flight A->B and flies A->B" and 4) "passenger doesn't fly", because they believe that sufficient passengers on this route will pay the higher price if their alternative is to stay home. So the cost to the airline of skiplagging is that they lose the ability to collect the higher fare. It's then a form of price discrimination, which generally requires some mechanism to segment consumers by ability to pay rather than by the cost of providing the goods or services. --Amble (talk) 21:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 16

Equivalents to boba liberals

Is there an equivalent to boba liberals who are a) South Asian, b) African-immigrant, c) Hispanic, d) Middle Eastern or West Asian, e) Central Asian? Donmust90 (talk) 23:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 18

Please give me some ideas of accomplishments I could make for me to become notable enough to meet WP:N

I am well aware of WP:N, and I most definitely won't write an article about myself and violate WP:AB. Therefore, what accomplishments could I try to achieve to have myself covered enough in WP:RS sources, thus making myself eligible to pass WP:N? I know this is a very open-ended question, but I think having a Wikipedia article about myself would be a fun accomplishment in my life, and I would like to do it the "correct"/"proper" way by actually making a notable accomplishment in my life, instead of the hundreds of new editors rushing onto WP:AFC to write an WP:AB about themselves. Please help suggest some ideas of accomplishments (e.g. sports, programming, careers, digital content/media) I could attempt that WP:RS would pick up on, thus making myself notable enough for editors to write an article about myself. Thanks! Félix An (talk) 11:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You don't need to do anything at all. You need people, unrelated to you, to publish notable things about you. How often have you shown up in newspaper articles, magazine articles, television news programs? Has a movie been made about you? Have books been written about you? It isn't about what you have done. It is about what all those authors have done. The point of Wikipedia is to say "This guy has been discussed in media. This is a summary of what it all said. Here are the links to the original media sources."

I have wondered why nobody has started a "Get me a Wikipedia article" campaign. Hit up every news organization asking them to interview you about your campaign to get a Wikipedia article. Then, eventually, you will be notable in the fact that you are trying to be notable, except there are many resources published to show your notability (or lack of notability, which makes you notable for being well published as not notable). 68.187.174.155 (talk) 14:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With the exception of 68's suggestion, how could we possibly do that? We don't know anything about you, your strengths or background (and don't post any of that stuff here). Besides, if we had a good idea, why would we share it with you rather than do it ourselves? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of the things you enjoy doing, which one do you predictably enjoy most? Or do you have a dream, like tackling some really tough problem? Concentrate on that one thing, putting all your energy and enthousiasm into getting very good at it. Better yet, do this because you enjoy it, not for possible recognition. --Lambiam 04:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I enjoy getting a Wikipedia article about myself! Also eating cake and sleeping past noon. Card Zero (talk) 05:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably something to do with creating media. I wouldn't consider myself very athletic. I had an idea for writing a stage play/musical inspired by the incidents in this article, and I personally know someone who experienced the school in question: https://thewalrus.ca/robert-land-academy/ Félix An (talk) 12:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at your profile, and came up with a scheme where you take up ski mountaineering and the Canadian Olympic Committee selects you for the 2026 Winter Olympics because it's a new olympic sport and nobody else was available. Then you perform really poorly but get a stub article anyway. But I suppose there are accomplished Canadian ski mountaineers already. I wish the world stone skipping champions were notable, but that one's more of an idea for myself. Card Zero (talk) 06:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, these people beat me to it: https://smcc.ski/team-canada/ Félix An (talk) 12:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Félix An I urge you to read Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I read that essay, and it seems to be targeted towards people who would perform WP:COI or WP:AB writing. I don't mind, since I know people are going to write very embarrassing things about me, but as the old quote goes, I think "there's no such thing as bad publicity", and I definitely wouldn't violate WP:COI or WP:AB. Félix An (talk) 06:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You could write a song like "When Will I Be Famous?". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 20

@@ Line 75: / Line 75: @@
 :::Yes. Regardless of skin color, passengers could fly if they could afford a ticket. In the 1960s, it was not profitable for airlines to turn customers away. I feel that the point that airlines were regulated in the 1960s is being overlooked or there is a lack of understanding about how expensive tickets were during regulation. It was nothing at all like modern air travel. [[Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155|68.187.174.155]] ([[User talk:68.187.174.155|talk]]) 19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
 ::::I don't know why you keep bringing up regulation and pricing. You say that "if you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly", which is undoubtedly true. But that still holds true today, and it doesn't get us anywhere closer to answering my question of what percentage of air passengers in the 1960s were white, black, Asian etc. I think Lambiam is right that there is no reliable data on this. --[[User:Viennese Waltz|Viennese Waltz]] 06:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
+:::::I keep bringing it up because I do not believe it is understood. In the 1960s, being able to fly was based on money, not race, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc... All minorities that were mostly middle-class or below were unable to afford tickets. It is not accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse airline tickets based on skin color. It is accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse to sell tickets to people who didn't have enough money to purchase them. [[Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155|68.187.174.155]] ([[User talk:68.187.174.155|talk]]) 18:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
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