Talk:Micronation

Please keep in mind the rules about personal attacks have recently changed. In particular, check out Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Remove personal attacks. Samboy 23:19, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Old discussion moved to

• Talk:Micronation/Archive1 by Samboy 23:19, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Talk:Micronation/Archive2 by Infrogmation 00:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
• Talk:Micronation/Archive3 by Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 13:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Republic of Mirage Islands

Someone converted a stub on the "Republic of Mirage Islands" into a redirect that points here. However, there is no mention made of it in the article. Would someone here who knows what category it belongs to add it? TIA, Askari Mark (Talk) 18:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted the redirect. I can't find any verifiable evidence from any reliable source that this exists, other than the information given on the website linked in the article. Werrington Downs, the location given for their "consulate", is landlocked, and the website does not give any location for the islands themselves, so I think WP:WEB applies, unless there is some external evidence that this is more than just a website. I've now put it up for AfD. -- The Anome 19:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm the one who redirected. I couldn't find any sources either, but I guess I was being cautious. Deletion is probably a better course of action. PubliusFL 19:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Would it be appropriate to place it in the "fraudulent" subsection of this article? Askari Mark (Talk) 23:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I actually bought a strange single-face coin from this micronation recently, so I know it definitely "exists". The last time I looked at their website they had also published a street address in the far western suburbs of Sydney as their "embassy" - but I've not yet been able to verify this with a drive-by. I suspect it's probably largely the product of some teenager's over-active imagination. --Gene_poole 00:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that is an impulsive comment, we should give user Askari Mark, a chance to prove the nations claims. Sloveniaiscool 17:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Askari Mark doesn't support the nation's claims. In fact, he voted to delete the article in question. PubliusFL 18:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

PubliusFL is correct, I am not a proponent. I help wikify Dead-end pages and when I came across Republic of Mirage Islands, I deemed that it was unsuited to be a Wikipedia article in its own right. However, I was unsure whether it might be appropriate to merge into this article, if only to include it as one of the frauds as an aid to readers. I feel the editors active here would be a better judge of that than I. Askari Mark (Talk) 19:37, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Sloveniaiscool is just trolling again. Best to ignore him. --Gene_poole 12:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

User Gene Poole is just being negative again, how is giving someone time to show valid sources trolling? Sloveniaiscool 23:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Legitimacy

A micro-nation meets the requirements of the Monte Video Accord. It is biased to place the sentence that micronations do not meet the requirements and may, therefore, not be a nation.

I also do not understand how it does not meet said requirements.

Wikifriendawesome 19:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The Montevideo Convention you're referring to is just that - a convention. It's merely one way of defining what a sovereign state is and isn't. In any case, no micronation unequivocally meets the terms of the Montevideo Convention, and no micronation has bilateral relations with any established sovereign state. If it did it would no longer be a micronation. --Gene_poole 21:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Successful Microstates

Could we list some successful microstates? Examples might include Israel and other aspirational states which were successful in getting independence. --MacRusgail 15:19, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Every single real country was without exception, at some point, a gleam in someone's eye - in effect, a microstate. Your index of successful microstates can therefore be found at list of real countries. If you mean a list of such states in modern living memory, I'm not sure those aren't better discussed as political movements rather than microstates. Rhialto 16:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I like Bill Bryson's comment "A language is a dialect with an army." The same could probably be said of the difference between a state and a microstate. ElizaBarrington (talk) 09:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Seborga

The inclusion of Seborga amoung historical anomalies is wrong, because it is a normal municipality of Italy. I'm graduated in History and NEVER heard about it before these days. The "document" cited by micronationals as the ancient base for their claim is a fake, or, better, it doesn't exist. I wrote to their official site asking WHERE this document is, planning to ask the permission to examine it, if existing, but they simply ignored my mail. By the way, the "principality" attracted a lot of tourists, expecially from abroad (the few Italians knowning about only laugh at it), which means it was a good tourist-call. The so-called "prince", a retired hand in agriculture, is often around places attended by tourists, expecially Sanremo, trying to call attention. Recently, I heard that a business man involved in the project of Gemini Islands micronation (really, Gemini Islands are only two reefs on Elba Island, where a natural park has to be established)is involved in Seborga, too. I recommend to move this voice to the one about micronations created fo some specifical purpose (in this case: tourist-calling). If some of you knows WHERE this "ancient document" is, please let me know. I'll read this discussion for news. Valerio from Italy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.51.118.40 (talk) 10:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

What "ancient document" are you referring to? Seborga has never, to my knowledge, claimed that its alleged legitimacy is based on any "ancient document". --Gene_poole 11:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

He may be referring to the fact that Seborga was not accounted for in the Congress of Vienna, or the Act of Unification of Italy 1912, a fact upon which it bases its claims for independence. Neither of these, however, are ancient. Izax143 (talk) 16:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

differentiation

Hi, we should distinguish between two things:

1. Micronations in terms of small states which are not accepted as states but are real existing

1. Virtual states in terms of communities or role-play-games in the internet.

Although they sometimes use the same word "micronation", they are to completly different things and should be treated in two different articles.

--JazzmanDE 02:01, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

They are not different things. Micronations do not neccesarily have to exist in the real world and can be purely internet based, as many are. Izax143 (talk) 16:40, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Include pop culture links?

Based on the examples presented in Australia and elsewhere, a great example in pop culture can be found in Petoria from Famliy Guy. Goodnight3455 15:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I seem to recall that Petoria was mentioned in this article at one point. I'm fairly certain there are enough general cultural references to micronations to justify the addition of such a section. --Gene_poole 23:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Duchy of Bohemia

An apparent SPA keeps adding this micronation to the article, with no source other than the micronation's own web site. Is anyone aware of any independent reliable sources to verify the notability of this micronation? PubliusFL (talk) 16:34, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I would be willing to stake my life on the likelihood that there is no such source. --Gene_poole (talk) 21:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I´m from Bohemia and I never hear of it. Yopie 23:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Peaceland

I added ′′Peaceland ′′ in the activist states. It´s notable, because was cited in official Czech press agency, Russian press agency and in Czech main news page. Probably it is same as Waveland.Yopie 23:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, looks like Waveland v2.0. Good find! PubliusFL (talk) 19:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Forvik

Here's another: the 2.5 acre island of Forvik Should it be included? You decide, I'm just a visitor. –TS

got coverage on The News Quiz, but that's about it so far! Not sure it's notable enough yet.ninety:one 21:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Aside from the Reuters coverage cited above, there's this article in The Guardian and a few other news articles. I think it might merit a mention. PubliusFL (talk) 22:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Reorganising the page

Here is a plan on how I would reorganise this article. This should cut down on the amount of sections.

--> Introduction

--> Definition

--> History

---> Early history

---> 1960-1980

---> Australian developments

---> Effects of the internet

--> Categories

---> Social, economic, or political simulations

---> Exercises in personal entertainment or self-aggrandisement

---> Exercises in fantasy or creative fiction

---> Vehicles for agenda promotion

---> Entities created for allegedly fraudulent purposes

---> Historical anomalies and aspirant states

---> New-country projects

--> Legitimacy (See also: constitutive theory of statehood and declarative theory of statehood)

--> Academic, literary and media attention

--> Micronational currencies (See also: List of micronational currency systems)

--> Gallery

--> See also

--> References

--> External Links

We also need some more images, particularly photographs of the micronations and micronational currency. I own quite a few stamps, coins and banknotes from micronations which I can scan and add to Wikipedia. Also, we only need a few examples per category, this isn't the list of micronations. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 08:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

• Please, this great change need be discussed with others contributors, all deleted micronations must be moved to list of micronations or can be created new articles. --Yopie 15:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

They are examples, which means that we only need a few (3,4 or 5) to represent each category. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 16:09, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I have moved all the deleted micronation to the list of micronations talk page so we can simultaneously improve this article and keep all the information on the deleted micronations available. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 16:22, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

• Don't edit my words in talk. --Yopie 22:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Words? - I never edited any of your words. You mean those bullet points? They're not words, they're not even supposed to be here, please read WP:TP on how to reply to comments. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 11:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Citation from [page guidelines]: "It is not necessary to bring talk pages to publishing standards, so there is no need to correct typing errors, grammar, etc. It tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. Do not strike out the comments of other editors without their permission.".--Yopie 18:47, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Could you please point out where I struck out your comments? You have still failed to explain how I edited your words, and now you say that I struck them out? So please explain to me why anybody would strike out words which they changed to favor their argument, and how bullet points are "words".

As I said, I'm not going to change it back, even though I have explained several times why bullet points aren't used. This is my last comment on the matter. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 20:01, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

adding references

I just happened to read this article today. It is really interesting but it looks like it needs more references. May I get started on that? I am a newbie so I won't make any edits in the article itself (other than the references) and I would be happy to hear suggestions or to help out any other way also.aharon42 (talk) 20:23, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. This article definitely needs some improvement, especially with references. Edit the article itself if you think any mistakes need to be corrected, and if you are interested in micronations you can join our WikiProject here: WP:MICRON. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 20:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Micro cover.jpg

The image Image:Micro cover.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --06:47, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

North Dumpling Island

Eccentric inventor Dean Kamen declared the independence of North Dumpling Island and signed a non-aggression treaty (albeit tongue-in-cheek) with US President George Bush Snr. Surely this is at least noteworthy. 210.50.142.164 (talk) 05:00, 25 November 2008 (UTC) Ian Ison

Sure... show us a reliable source to prove this claim... - Adolphus79 (talk) 13:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

North Dumpling does exist, it's in Lonely Planet. - Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 19:05, 30 November 2008 (UTC)