Talk:Cantonese cuisine

removed from article

The following was moved from the article olivier 10:01 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)

I once saw a Chinese calligraphy in a Cantonese restaurant which depicted over 40 Chinese characters each representing a method of cooking. some good Cantonese cook please expand on this.

Hi. I am not sure I got 40 but let me get a few offhand, and I don't know all the characters btw: Stir-fry（炒）, double-boil, boil, simmer, steam (蒸), roast, fry (炸), bake... ok i'm out of ideas --Seifen 02:17, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

The following are also used in Cantonese menu (note that most e.g. 灼, 燉, 爆, 焗, 燜 etc., have different meaning from the Mandarin usage): 灼=blanch, 炊=boil/steam? 烘=dry by fire, 烤=roast, 烙=sear, 烹=cook?, 煮=boil?, 煎=pan fry, 熬=long boil/simmer, 煨=char, smoke?, 煲=long boil/simmer, 煙,燻,熏=smoke, 燉=double boil(Cantonese meaning), 燒=roast, 燜=simmer, 爆=quick stir fry, 焗=bake. Kowloonese 19:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

roast

Hi, I'm david. I like to know how to roast duck and chicken ( Hong Kong Type ) I really like to learn that. can you teach me? My email : abcklcc@yahoo.com. thank you.

涼茶

Is there any expert in 涼茶 (cool tea)? The article does not seem to have mentioned it at all. :-) — Instantnood 20:23, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Are you referring to "5 flowers tea" or "14 flavored tea" etc.? I doubt if these should be classified as cuisine. I wrote about the Cantonese centric Chinese food therapy which is where the "cool tea" belong. Kowloonese 00:47, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll add a pointer from Cantonese cuisine to Chinese food therapy. — Instantnood 13:00, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Cantonese cuisine lost its Cantonese name

I don't understand why some people changed all the Cantonese dish names to pinyin. For god sake, this article is about Cantonese food, please preserve the Cantonese names and throw out those pinyin, if you like pinyin so much, put them in parathesis as pronouciation guide, don't change the Cantonese names! Kowloonese 00:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

POV

Isn't the word "favorite" in the following sentence problemetic in this context? Who's favorite?

Some favorite dishes include: taro duck, salt and pepper fried squid, salt and pepper fried shrimp, and roast duck.

Ox penis

A statement in the article regarding the wide range of meats in Cantonese cuisine mentioned "ox genitals" as one example to illustrate some uncommon taste. The item was removed on Jan 23, 2006, by user 82.148.97.68. I am okay with such removal if the inclusion is offensive to some people who'd rather hide the truth, but the statement is weaker without a strong example to illustrate the point. Ox penis is sold in butcher shop as "ox whip" (牛鞭, an euphenmism) and the same dish can be found in some special restaurants. Kowloonese 21:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I've seen it for sale in a Chinese supermarket in Mississauga labelled as "beef dick". Talk about your euphemisms! - Cybergoth 20:35, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

If it has got four legs ... the Cantonese will eat it

This is actually a Chinese saying, not a Western slur. I've heard it in Central China in person and later read it in a book on Chinese culture. I could try and look for it, but could someone based in China just ask somebody if it's their saying? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.30.101.7 (talk) 05:23, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Chinese sayings are usually a little cryptic. This one is simple and direct, and makes references to submarines. Benjwong 02:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Is it "Cantonese eat anything with four legs except table; everything that flies except airplane; and everything that swims except submarine"? Badagnani 02:47, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Benjwong 03:17, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just heard in on the Discovery Channel, said by a Singaporean Chinese. Benjwong, I heard this line from a Chinese student of English, a peasant girl. She was quite clear it is a Chinese saying. It's quite possible it's been modernised, but it's hardly an example of western prejudices. Dawidbernard 19:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

This man said the exact line in 1986, though I don't know if he is the one who started it. If he is, it is possible that the line was translated into Chinese and spread via Hong Kong. _dk 03:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

...or he might have heard it in China and repeated it to a wide coverage so that it was considered his own. We just don't know, but the article fails to point out that it either has always been or at least has become a Chinese saying as well. I think it's worth pointing that out and because I've finally found a respectable source, I decided to clear things up in the article. Dawidbernard 18:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like something he picked up and repeated (like many of us have done). Badagnani 19:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I find it difficult that the north would say that. They have massive food supply problems to the point where they can barely sustain their cuisine style. Let alone do cantonese cuisines. Isn't insects a northerner thing still? Benjwong 22:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not purely a northern thing. I've heard the same line from people in Shanghai and Hangzhou. It's a pretty widely held stereotype of Guangdong. There's another joke about an alien coming down and meeting three guys: one from Beijing, one from Shanghai and one from Guangzhou. The Shanghai guy tries to buy it, the Beijinger tries to dissect and classify it, and the guy from Guangzhou tries to eat it. ;) Rpine75 (talk) 00:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Badagnani

Alright, I would like an explanation from you. I have been doing quite a bit of work all afternoon to expanding the contents of this article, and I don't need you to come in, undo what I did and simply call it "undiscussed blanking" without actual proof that I've blanked anything out of the article into oblivion. I did not delete anything indiscriminately, all I did was to re-organize the sauce section into sauces and condiments section, and move certain entries into other parts of the article. Haleth (talk) 04:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

If you want to remove ingredients or text, at least state why you are doing so. When an anonymous editor removes text without edit summary, it is usually questioned. Badagnani (talk) 04:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I didn't really remove anything at all. Like I said, carefully read through what I actually did. I merely removed an entry of five spice powder from the Includes list, as it was already mentioned in the paragraph preceding it. It's a spice/flavouring like ginger or star anise, not a sauce or condiment as the paragraph suggests. Haleth (talk) 04:59, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

That's clear now; I've fixed the subheading, which made it appear as though it were a list of spices before, due to the text immediately preceding. Badagnani (talk) 05:01, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

That's cool. Thank you. :-) Haleth (talk) 05:04, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Please restore

This text was just blanked without comment:

"Stir-fried vegetables with ginger and garlic." Badagnani (talk) 07:41, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Please restore

This text was just blanked without comment:

"* Siu haau sauce (烧烤酱)"

Can removals without comment please stop?

Badagnani (talk) 19:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone doesn't think it belongs here? Benjwong (talk) 06:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Intro

I removed a chunk out of the intro because it is possible for northern cuisine to be more popular in some countries in the west. Benjwong (talk) 06:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

This has changed over time. Certainly for nearly 100 years Cantonese was the most prominent. But it shouldn't be deleted, just moved, if you feel it's out of place. Badagnani (talk) 07:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking that the section may not ever be reference-able. Therefore it will just be another "need citation". Benjwong (talk) 07:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

It can certainly be cited. The history of Chinese food in the U.S. is well documented, as are the Cantonese dish names and proprietors of restaurants dating back to the 1800s. The New York Times has even done stories on the introduction of northern foods (many introduced by Taiwanese people), for the first time in the 1970s in New York City. Badagnani (talk) 07:25, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

But that does not represent all of western cities. See edits like this by other users. Benjwong (talk) 07:48, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not correct. Most editors here are quite young and don't realize that in most places it was Cantonese that was most widely available before the 1970s. The text can easily be changed to "in North America" if the other places are not nailed down. But I'm certain that most Chinese in England, for example, were also Cantonese from early on. Badagnani (talk) 07:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually I was more tempted to get rid of the citation-needed, since this is so easy to debate. If you can reword it to not require any more research, please do. Benjwong (talk) 08:12, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention that the famous "Chop Suey" and fortune cookies are an American Chinese invention, and that dishes abroad are mostly westernized (see American chinese cuisine) and NOT "authentic". In (continental) Europe, it is actually rather rare to find a cantonese-influenced Chinese restaurant (this also has changed a bit over the last decade). You find mainly Beijing cuisine. (both westernized, of course). "Authentic" restaurants are actually rare and are explicitly advertised as such. (and cater mostly for Chinese people living abroad and adventurous Europeans). So the generalization in the intro is actually only true for USA and (possibly) the UK. "Authentic" should be replaced with "influenced" or "westernized". -- megA (talk) 22:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Even in the US, it will vary depending on the state. Which is why I wanted to delete that intro western-influence paragraph altogether. Benjwong (talk) 07:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Probably "Dubbed"?

The end of the article contains the sentence 'The meat is doubted by the mainland media as "bad intention pork meat".' I find it hard to believe that this sentence doesn't contain some sort of typo. I'm guessing it should be 'dubbed' instead of 'doubted'. -tonyb