User talk:Rinpoche

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Welcome!

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Japonaiserie (van Gogh)

Hi. Just to say great work on the page. Ceoil (talk) 09:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Rinpoche (talk) 10:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Sutor, ne ultra crepidam for deletion

A discussion has begun about whether the article Sutor, ne ultra crepidam, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sutor, ne ultra crepidam until a concensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

You may edit the article during the discussion, including to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Bobby122 Contact Me (C) 04:43, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you sort of think it's a dictionary item? It's a celebrated Latin phrase (for which Wikipedia has a category and many entries) and neither does it have the character of a dictionary entry (whose hallmark is that they have multiple definitions). You sort of marked this for deletion within literally minutes of my contributing it. Why? Don't you think you should have sort of discussed your concerns with the community first on the talk page? It strikes me as very high handed of you. Are you in fact an administrator? I do feel abused and I do think you sort of owe me an apology. At any rate please clarify your concerns on the deletion page so we can move on here. Rinpoche (talk) 12:59, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a new page patroller who looked at the article and thought it looked like a dictionary entry so I submitted it to AFD to get a consensus on whether or not it should be transwikied. There I saw the reasons why the article should by kept at the English Wikipedia. Bobby122 Contact Me (C) 14:23, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Civility

I can clearly see that you are trying to make fun of my statements and also you should not even mention the word "stupid" in a discussion as you are likely to offend other editors. I kindly ask you to review wp:civility and respond kindly like other editors have. Bobby122 Contact Me (C) 18:28, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby122. I'm not making fun of your statements. Rather I am expressing irritation at your unwanted interference with my contibution in much the same spirit as Appeles did when he uttered Sutor, ne ultra crepidam. Call it ironic. Do you agree the article should stand? Have we reached consensus? Your response on my talk page suggests you have. On the delete page you remain equivocal. Rinpoche (talk) 19:35, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Buddhist sex abuse cases

I would appreciate any observation and advice readers may be able to supply as to how I can have this page restored. The page iself can be seen here as a draft page in my user space.Rinpoche (talk) 04:56, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have deleted the userspace copy iof the article under G10. Please do not repost it again unless there is first a consensus that it is OK. Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:06, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I would be obliged if you could tell me where the article can be viewed to reach a consensus. The article was deleted without warning me that it had been tagged for deletion and I don't know whether it was ever discussed. Why shouldn't it be suitable? What is controversial about it? I have asked for the article's deletion to be reviewed. I would be grateful if you would give me a fuller account of your action failing which I do propose to restore the article in my userspace so that interested parties can understand what the dispute (from which I was nevertheless ever given the opportunity to contribute to) refers to. Rinpoche (talk) 07:00, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - It can't unless you have multiple concrete incontrovertible sources that name each and everyone one of the list as a sex offender then you cannot host this material on wikipedia. Spartaz ^Humbug! 09:59, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - First of all you introduce the term 'sex offender', once again conflating abuse necessarily with criminality. This really is very remiss indeed of you. I'm surprised you are seemingly unembarrassed by this persistent error you perpetrate. Regarding your remark about sources, with the exception of Ole Nydahl all of the cases I cite are to be found sourced on the individuals' concerned own wiki pages, are adequately sourced by me and are entirely not contentious either because the behaviour had led to resignation or (in the case of Trungpa, Tendzin and Sogyal) is indeed multiply and incontrovertibly sourced. In the case of Nydahl the situation is unusual since he makes no secret of his sexual relationships with his students but justifies it as equipowered and this is noted by me in the article. Will you please now address the question of your confounding of abuse with criminality and let me know your proposals? Rinpoche (talk) 10:41, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      - Rinpoche, I think if you are going to write something on this topic, to start with, you need a more cautious title. My understanding is the article concerns 'inappropriate sexual relationships' as opposed to what is more usually considered 'sex abuse'. From there you need a lead section, which clearly explains, perhaps even emphasizes, that inclusion on the list doesn't imply any illegal activity, merely there was a relationship that was inappropriate. The actual body of the article I thought was reasonably ok, but perhaps the 'literature' section should come first, with some sort of introduction to this section, commenting on shared themes, and noting any significant disagreements. Whether or not there should be a 'Recent alleged cases involving teachers in the Western Buddhist community' is debatable, but if included, it would require better sourcing - blogs certainly shouldn't be used. Finally, I would comment that criticism of this sort is possible, for example Western Buddhist Order#The Guardian report, however it should be noted this takes a very cautious approach. PhilKnight (talk) 22:36, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this. I don't agree with the remark about 'inappropiate sexual relationships'. That strikes me as just a euphemism for abusive relationships. But I shan't be rewriting this article if the deletion is not undone. It's too much trouble and I have other projects underway as well my own work. This was supposed to be a service to the community. I am profoundly distressed it is treated like this. Consider the list in Sexual_abuse#Positions_of_power of cases in the 'Southern Baptist religion^[1], Catholic Church, Episcopalian religion^[2], Islam^[3], Jehovah's Witnesses, Lutheran church^[4], Methodist Church^[5], The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints^[6], the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Orthodox Judaism^[7], Buddhism and various cults'. I merely sought to include Buddhism.

Rinpoche (talk) 00:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your suggestion that the 'Literature' section should perhaps come first indeed sensible on reflection as your remark about a lead section and I will revise the article if it is restored. The list has to stay though. Really the whole reason I wrote the artcile was because I was so struck that every emerging Western Buddhism group I offhand know of over the past fifty years has been tarnished, not just peripherally but at its heart, by this sort of sexual scandal and this is what makes it notable (I saw a remark that perhaps the page wasn't needed and but for this I would be inclined to agree - the trouble is if I make much of that then I fall into the 'original research' trap ). The first paper I reference essentially addresses the issue in an interesting, and I think correct, way. I did look at the FWBO article you mention and list it as an external source and I think one of the references (essentially favourable) I supplied came from there. It was also the basis of the remark I made that the community remained supportive of its founder. But I stress I'm not prepared to interest myself further in a page like this unless my original version is restored. Thank you for your remarks. Appreciated. Rinpoche (talk) 09:33, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

^ Stop Baptist Predators
^ Episcopalian Ministers
^ [1]
^ The Lutheran Lutheran abuse
^ Methodist abuse
^ Case Reports of the Mormon Alliance
^ Abuse Scandal Plagues Hasidic Jews In Brooklyn by Barbara Bradley Hagerty. All Things Considered, National Public Radio. 2 Feb 2009.

[1] Stop Baptist Predators

[2] Episcopalian Ministers

[3] [1]

[4] The Lutheran Lutheran abuse

[5] Methodist abuse

[6] Case Reports of the Mormon Alliance

[7] Abuse Scandal Plagues Hasidic Jews In Brooklyn by Barbara Bradley Hagerty. All Things Considered, National Public Radio. 2 Feb 2009.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

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