Talk:Samuel Isaac Joseph Schereschewsky

Saints banner and category

Based on this individual being included in the Calendar of saints (Episcopal Church in the United States of America), I am adding the Category:Anglican saints and the Saints WikiProject banner to this article. I am awaiting reliable sources which can be used to add the content to the article. John Carter 19:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Boxer rebellion?

I noticed that Schereschewsky died in Tokyo after the Boxer rebellion in China. The article mentions only that he died poor and used a wheelchair during his last few years, but nothing about his evacuation from China. Unfortunately, I know little about the Anglican/Episcopal missions in either China or Japan, and don't have the time or resources now to do the research. Thus I hope someone can fill in this gap.Jweaver28 (talk) 13:06, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Move back to SIJ Schereschewksy?

I appreciate the idea of making the name of the article approachable, but a few searches seem to show that the "common name" was the previous one, SIJS.

• Google Search + Joseph Schereschewsky on the first three pages gets only one hits for Joseph S., the rest are SIJS. This is nearly conclusive that the common name is SIJS.

• WorldCat Search = Joseph Schereschewsky returns books by or about SIJS. The items by "Joseph" are another person.
• WorldCat Authority Page = Schereschewsky, S. I. J. (Samuel Isaac Joseph) 1831-1906, doesn't give Joseph. The books by or about him use SIJS or initials, but I don't see "Joseph S."
• Google Search "Joseph Schereschewsky -samuel", that is, to see how many hits there are for "Joseph S." without "Samuel," does indeed return a lot of hits, but many are to some other form of the name including "Joseph," not to "Joseph S."
• Calendar of saints (Episcopal Church)#Calendar (October) gives SIJS.

I may be missing something, but I don't see a common reference to him as "Joseph S." Would it be ok to move it back?

ch (talk) 04:46, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Although they also include his full name, both THIS WEBPAGE and THIS ONE, which I am assuming are based on official Episcopal Church sources, refer to him simply in the prayers as Joseph Schereschewsky. This is a very strong indication that this is how he was commonly known by those who did actually know him.

It is not surprising that older and more formal sources include his full name. That was once common practice in older church sources with bishops. Such sources can be misleading as they can give the false impression that this was how bishops were normally known.

It seems clear to me, however, that his usual name was Joseph Schereschewsky and that this is therefore the appropriate article name. Cheers, Anglicanus (talk) 08:20, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt reply and the insights. Still, Wikipedia WP:COMMONNAME guidelines should be followed, and these two examples are further indications that SIJS was the Common Name in the Wikipedia sense even if he was known as JS to his friends. As you say, SIJS was "more formal" and was his "full name," which are just what the guidelines say we should use. The Google, Google Scholar, and WOrldCat searches overwhelmingly show that the Common Name was SIJS, and not just in "older sources" but in recent writings. Tiedemann's Handbook of Christianity in China Vol Two, for instance, indexes him under Samuel Isaac. But it's hard to find public references to him as JS.

While we're at it, would you like to add a pronunciation of his name? This would be a service! ch (talk) 20:52, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Although I appreciate that these things can sometimes be complicated, I believe that my comments do accurately express the WP:COMMONNAME principles. The principles do not say that we should use people's full names for article names unless that is how they were also commonly known.

Also, I did not say anything about how he was known to his friends (this is not necessarily a person's "common name") and I have provided recent online sources which I believe reliably and clearly show that his common name was in fact "Joseph". Which of his first names he was commonly known by is much more important than how many formal sources use his full name. You seem to be confused about what "common name" actually means as opposed to a person's full name or formal name as usually used in the kinds of references you have mentioned. Those kind of sources would normally use his full or formal name rather than his common name. And the Handbook of Christianity in China has obviously made a mistake by not including "Joseph" at all in his name. This is not an uncommon mistake in publications when people are not known by the first of their "first names" ~ especially when it also isn't the second of the person's names.

The following part of the WP:COMMONNAMES guidelines needs noting:

Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources,

are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources.

On this principle I would maintain that using his full name, "even though (it) may be more frequently used by reliable sources", is "inaccurate" for the article subject as it appears clear from other sources that his common name was actually Joseph Schereschewsky. If you are still unconvinced then I suggest that you consider seeking other editors' thoughts on how the common name principles apply to this article.

I am not the person to ask about the pronunciation of his surname. Cheers, Anglicanus (talk) 04:06, 20 January 2014 (UTC)