Wikipedia:Featured article review/Joel Selwood/archive1
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was delisted by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 2:38, 20 August 2022 (UTC) [1].
- Notified: User talk:Boomtish, User talk:Allied45, User talk:Johnny Stormer, User talk:LM150, WP:AFL, WP:AWNB, WP:WPBIO, Notice from July 2021
Review section
I am nominating this featured article for review because the article is out of date with very little information on post-2015 activity (subject is still an active player) Bumbubookworm (talk) 01:40, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Bumbubookworm do you have examples of what is missing, eg, with reliable sources? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:05, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Joel_Selwood#2012–present:_Captaining_the_Cats - You can see there is one small para about the 2020 season at the end, but only one sentence is actually about him, and one sentence before that he reached 250 games in 2018. Apart from that, there is nothing on his activities 2016-19 and 2021. He is still a full-time player, you can see in the stats table that in these years, he played 20+ games as he had done in previous years (2020 was shortened due to COVID) and he was still productive; his stats in those years are similar to his career averages, and he is still the captain, eg he was also All-Australian in 2016 and 2017, so still one of the more prominent players in the league, but there is no coverage of these years. Bumbubookworm (talk) 20:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Move to FARC plenty of news stories just in the last year[2] interestingly a Guardian opinion piece declared that he was behaving "antithetical to AFL principles" in June 2021.[3] Not sure if this particular controversy merits discussion but I'm convinced the article has not been updated sufficiently. (t · c) buidhe 05:16, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Move to FARC - post-2015 material is not properly fleshed out. Hog Farm Talk 07:05, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FARC section
- Issues raised in the review section include currency and sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:52, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Delist issues identified above have not been addressed (t · c) buidhe 21:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delist, zero progress on issues raised. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:01, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]Hold, per Sportsfan77777.SandyGeorgia (Talk) 07:41, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delist, no edits since October. Hog Farm Talk 15:35, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]- Hold, if this is going to be worked on. Hog Farm Talk 15:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Hold in FARC – This is straightforward to save. It's just a matter of filling in five missing years. The rest of the article will be largely unchanged. I can work on it if no one else does. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:32, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Sportsfan77777, no one has edited this article since 28 October. Do you have a timeframe for completing the work? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 10:22, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll finish most if not all of it by next month. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 17:57, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- All right, strike again; but please do keep us posted. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:42, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll finish most if not all of it by next month. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 17:57, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delist, Sportsfan77777 has been actively editing, but has not edited this article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:46, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]- Could we get an update on status here? Sportsfan77777? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:34, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Started working on it! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:59, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Sportsfan77777, how are things going here? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:15, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I filled in just about all of the missing information, but I still need to proofread everything and fix some of the existing sourcing. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 11:06, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Sportsfan77777 - Have you been able to complete proofreading and fixing the original sources? Hog Farm Talk 15:00, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Apologies for the delay. I should have time to get back to it soon. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 09:21, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Sportsfan77777 - Have you been able to complete proofreading and fixing the original sources? Hog Farm Talk 15:00, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I filled in just about all of the missing information, but I still need to proofread everything and fix some of the existing sourcing. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 11:06, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @Bumbubookworm: - any thoughts on the state of the article at this point? Hog Farm Talk 13:26, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The Slattery book is self-published. Does Slattery have any credentials for the topic? (This is a subject of which I have essentially no familiarity). Hog Farm Talk 13:28, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Sportsfan77777@Bumbubookworm:@Hog Farm: Is the book actually written by Geoff Slattery? It's called an official souvenir, so I presume it's written by the team's PR department and published by Slattery Group Media. DrKay (talk) 12:34, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Slattery is probably fine. It looks like it's semi-official, the author is prolific in the field, as has written for the AFL itself. Hog Farm Talk 02:12, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delist, source-text integrity issues. And there's still some uncited text in the 2009-2011 section. For instance:
- "During the off-season, Selwood was appointed as the national team captain of Australia for the 2014 International Rules Series against Ireland. Playing in the midfield, Selwood kicked one over in the lone test match and led Australia to a 56–46 win against Ireland. Winning their 20th test match against Ireland, Australia reclaimed the Cormac McAnallen Trophy for the first time since 2010" - I'm not seeing where the source supports the midfield or the kicking one over, or most of the last sentence
- "Selwood highlighted his consistency by gathering over 20 disposals in 21 of 24 games" - this is original research to a stats line
- "while in a round nineteen match against Collingwood he gathered a career-high 20 contested possessions" - no longer supported by the source, which may have changed formats because the title is now different
I haven't given this one a super-thorough look, but with this open for 7 months and this sort of issue still outstanding, I think it's time to consider delisting. Pinging @FAR coordinators: . Hog Farm Talk 02:23, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll get to it. This was what I was referring to when I said "I still need to proofread everything and fix some of the existing sourcing". Sportsfan77777 (talk) 17:30, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there a timeframe for this? There's a certain point where it's more effective to delist and then re-submit to FAC so that FAR doesn't become completely bogged down. Given that it's been about 4 months since substantive work has occurred, I'm wondering if that point is being reached ... Hog Farm Talk 04:12, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll make it a priority after I finish the current article I'm working on, so probably July. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:17, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there a timeframe for this? There's a certain point where it's more effective to delist and then re-submit to FAC so that FAR doesn't become completely bogged down. Given that it's been about 4 months since substantive work has occurred, I'm wondering if that point is being reached ... Hog Farm Talk 04:12, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Sportsfan77777, are you still intending to work on this? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:55, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes! I'm close to finished with the other article I'm working on. After that, I'll get to this. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 21:19, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Sportsfan77777, could we get a status update? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @FAR coordinators: "Gleeson, Michael (26 November 2006). "Geelong captures a Selwood and calms a mother's heart". Big Footy. The Age. Archived from the original on 16 April 2013. Retrieved 23 July 2022." - this ref is a web forum. The failed verification and uncited text pointed out two months ago are still present. At nine months in, it's concerning that there's still these sourcing issues. @Sportsfan77777: - Would it be better to close this as delisted now so that you can work on this outside of FAR and then renominate at FAC at some point in the future? Hog Farm Talk 14:24, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The Gleeson ref is to The Age, which is a newspaper. The text from the article itself was copied into a web forum. I don't see an issue with that. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 21:18, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- It's still most certainly an issue for two reasons - 1) the source is unreliable so we can't trust that it's accurately copying the newspaper text and 2) it's a WP:COPYLINK violation if accurate, as the newspaper text would be under copyright. Hog Farm Talk 23:02, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Is it okay to de-link it then and cite it as a newspaper source? I'm not concerned about the accuracy. The point of copying it into the forum is typically because it requires a paid subscription, hence why the link to the original article included isn't archived. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 21:40, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there a way to verify that information from another source? I don't like the idea of essentially sourcing something to something copied into a forum, even if the copying is probably right. Hog Farm Talk 13:40, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Is it okay to de-link it then and cite it as a newspaper source? I'm not concerned about the accuracy. The point of copying it into the forum is typically because it requires a paid subscription, hence why the link to the original article included isn't archived. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 21:40, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- It's still most certainly an issue for two reasons - 1) the source is unreliable so we can't trust that it's accurately copying the newspaper text and 2) it's a WP:COPYLINK violation if accurate, as the newspaper text would be under copyright. Hog Farm Talk 23:02, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The failed verification you pointed out I wasn't concerned with. The link is supposed to go to his individual page, which is already linked in the article numerous times. The 2009-2011 section is the last big section I need to get to. I finished most if not all of the 2007-2008 references a few weeks ago.
- I think I can finish everything in not that much time. If someone else didn't nominate 10 sport GAs to delist last month, I would have gotten to more of this in July. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 21:18, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The Gleeson ref is to The Age, which is a newspaper. The text from the article itself was copied into a web forum. I don't see an issue with that. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 21:18, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @FAR coordinators: "Gleeson, Michael (26 November 2006). "Geelong captures a Selwood and calms a mother's heart". Big Footy. The Age. Archived from the original on 16 April 2013. Retrieved 23 July 2022." - this ref is a web forum. The failed verification and uncited text pointed out two months ago are still present. At nine months in, it's concerning that there's still these sourcing issues. @Sportsfan77777: - Would it be better to close this as delisted now so that you can work on this outside of FAR and then renominate at FAC at some point in the future? Hog Farm Talk 14:24, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@FAR coordinators: Buidhe has a Delist declaration above, Hog Farm has a Delist declaration, and now my patience is also exhausted. I am reinstating my struck Delist; not only are we not moving forward, but it appears we are even moving backwards. This article can be revisited via FAC. The nomination was from last November !!!!! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:49, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know what you mean by moving backwards. Everything is moving forward. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 21:18, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- November to August is not moving forward; it's time to wrap this up. If the article is worthy, it can come back to FA status via FAC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:58, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Delist: The three examples of text not properly supported by the source raised by Hogfarm on 12 June are still not properly supported by the source. On a more picky level, consistent formatting of references (WP:FACR#2c) is a problem: why, for instance, is The Age sometimes wrapped in {{cite news}} and sometimes in {{cite web}}? Why does one of the references to The Age give location= and publisher= information when none of the others do? Why is the publisher for "Naitanui already making headlines" listed as the AFL rather than Collingwood Football Club? Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 11:34, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Closing note: This removal candidate has been delisted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please leave the {{featured article review}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:38, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.