Talk:2012 Chardon High School shooting

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2012 Chardon High School shooting article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

A fact from 2012 Chardon High School shooting appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 March 2012 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that a student witness to the Chardon High School shooting said her math teacher had a bulletproof vest in his classroom that he wore during the crisis?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2012/March.

Wikipedia

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Ohio Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Ohio portal This article is supported by WikiProject Ohio (assessed as Low-importance).

Schools Low‑importance

	Schools portal This article is related to WikiProject Schools, a collaborative effort to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.SchoolsWikipedia:WikiProject SchoolsTemplate:WikiProject Schoolsschool
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Anticipated notability

It is anticipated that this topic will meet the notability standards. It is being reported nationally. It is one of several crimes of its type that are happening at a phenomenal rate in the USA. A person has died as a result. It will, in MHO, be used as a case study of the phenomenon (it has already been reported as being typical of this type of crime). It not only effects the people who live and attend school in the immediate area, but students and teachers through out the country (USA) because it is part of a phenomenon. I believe that is the future people will want to look this subject up to clarify the details, just as they do the Columbine High School massacre and the Virginia Tech shooting.--Ishtar456 (talk) 18:27, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's a school shooting, so almost certainly to be notable... 70.24.251.71 (talk) 20:51, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is the count correct?

The article reads: gunman shot four male students, Daniel Parmertor, Russell King, Nate Mueller, Demetrius Hewlin and Nick Walczak in the cafeteria."

That's 5 by my count, and then the article adds another name and sates that 5 people were injured. Can someone check this and fix the discrepancy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.247.114.63 (talk) 13:32, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Really good question. Nate Meuller was grazed by a bullet in the ear. He was not one of the injured that were taken to the hospital. His name was not originally in that sentence and his name is not mentioned in the citation for that sentence. It was a detail that was probably inserted by one of the several unregistered editors that are running a muck on this article. I guess I will go fix it now.--Ishtar456 (talk) 13:43, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alledged shooter

As the person who started this article, I have to say that I am opposed to putting the name of the suspect in the article before the police have identified him. I just read an article about how photos that have been publicized supposedly of the suspect were not even him. I know this is being reported on CNN, but the identification comes from a high school student, not the police and I think that it is a big mistake to put it here at this time. --Ishtar456 (talk) 00:14, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The wording used in the article is very clear in stating that this is an allegation, and it specifies who is making it. At no point does the article say anything along the lines of "T.J. Lane is the shooter". I think there is more than enough press information and he's certainly a person of interest in this event, so I don't see any problem with his name being included as long as we continue to keep it clear that he is not an official suspect. Also, don't forget WP:OWN...the fact that you started this article is irrelevant to its' content. 206.28.38.227 (talk) 00:43, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I did not say I owned it, but I do feel responsible if people start reporting on it in a reckless manner and I really think that the name should be left out until the police ID him.--Ishtar456 (talk) 01:18, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the name should be left out until it is official. The media set a bad example to be followed. May we forever hope that wikipedia has better standards than the newspapers.72.187.98.128 (talk) 07:00, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Declaring people dead

I just want to point out that Action 19 News may have reported that King was dead the evening of the 27th, but no one else was. Actually, I did not even see where they had named him at that point, but unfortunately, this article reported it as so. He was not pronounced brain dead until 12:42 AM on the 28th. Since there is still one more victim in critical condition and another in serious condition, I really hope that editors of this page don't pronounce anyone else dead before the doctors do. It has actually happened already here today when someone wrote that a third victim had died (it was quickly edited, thank goodness).--Ishtar456 (talk) 16:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, major media outlets say that there are indeed three deaths now. —AySz88 \^-^ 18:19, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Now they are. Can you imagine that you are a friend of one of these guys and you are wondering how they are and the word has not gotten to you yet that they have died... and WOW, you read it on wikipedia. I hope there are not any more deaths. There is still one in serious condition. --Ishtar456 (talk) 18:58, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This help request has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please replace the code {{help me-helped}} on this page with {{help me}}, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

Can this article be semi-protected? There seems to be a tendency for the article to report one more death than the news is reporting. Thanks--Ishtar456 (talk) 20:05, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

PS it has happened three times.--Ishtar456 (talk) 20:06, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're looking for WP:Requests for page protection. Read up on the protection policy, and if it fits, just submit your request. Dori ☾Talk ⁘ Contribs☽ 02:37, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have semi-protected for three days. Terrible for someone to look at the article and see someone reported as having died when they have not. By the way, Hi Ishtar, long time no speak.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:06, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Victim's age

Danny Parmertor was 16, not 17. Can someone correct this in the article? http://obits.cleveland.com/obituaries/cleveland/obituary.aspx?n=daniel-vincent-parmertor-danny&pid=156186297 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.107.180 (talk) 20:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you to whoever corrected Danny Parmertor's age to 16. But the link next to his name in the "Inujries and Deaths" box is to an MSNBC article which has the age wrong. Can you put one or both of these links next to his name in the Injuries and Deaths box instead?; they have the correct age: http://obits.cleveland.com/obituaries/cleveland/obituary.aspx?n=daniel-vincent-parmertor-danny&pid=156186297 or http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/index.ssf/2012/02/daniel_parmertor_who_died_in_s.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.107.180 (talk) 21:55, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Social media

I removed the following section for the article and condensed it into one paragraph, because I believe that it is too soon to refer to this. Unless it comes up at the trial or in analysis of the incident it is actually irrelevant. It is very hard to say if this had anything to do with it and I think that presenting it as a fact that the shooter even wrote it is on shaky ground. Lets please leave it out for now and see if it is ever brought up again. Thanks, --Ishtar456 (talk) 20:39, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Social media There were rumors that there had been a warnings about the shooting posted on Twitter.^[1] News agencies published excerpts from the Facebook profile of a boy named "T.J. Lane". The profile did not give a location but several of the user' s friends were listed as being from Chardon.^[1] One entry in particular, dated December 30, 2011, caught attention and was published in its entirety by Global Grind:

In a time long since, a time of repent, The Renaissance. In a quaint lonely town, sits a man with a frown. No job. No family. No crown. His luck had run out. Lost and alone.

The streets were his home. His thoughts would solely consist of "why do we exist?" His only company to confide in was the vermin in the street. He longed for only one thing, the world to bow at his feet.
They too should feel his secret fear. The dismal drear. His pain had made him sincere. He was better than the rest, all those ones he detests, within their castles, so vain. Selfish and conceited.
They couldn't care less about the peasents they mistreated. They were in their own world, it was a joyous one too. That castle, she stood just to do all she could to keep the peasents at bay, not the enemy away.

They had no enemies in their filthy orgy. And in her, the castles every story, was just another chamber of Lucifer's Laboratory. The world is a sandbox for all the wretched sinners.
They simply create what they want and make themselves the winners. But the true winner, he has nothing at all. Enduring the pain of waiting for that castle to fall. Through his good deeds, the rats and the fleas.
He will have for what he pleads, through the eradication of disease. So, to the castle he proceeds, like an ominous breeze through the trees. "Stay back!" The Guards screamed as they were thrown to their knees. "Oh God, have mercy, please!"
The castle, she gasped and then so imprisoned her breath, to the shallow confines of her fragile chest. I'm on the lamb but I ain't no sheep. I am Death. And you have always been the sod. So repulsive and so odd.
You never even deserved the presence of God, and yet, I am here. Around your cradle I plod. Came on foot, without shod. How improper, how rude. However, they shall not mind the mud on my feet if there is blood on your sheet.
Now! Feel death, not just mocking you. Not just stalking you but inside of you. Wriggle and writhe. Feel smaller beneath my might. Seizure in the Pestilence that is my scythe. Die, all of you. ^[2]

According to a comment posted by Lane on January 20, 2012, he "wrote it [himself] in class one day."^[2]^[1]

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Cite error: The named reference IBT was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b "'Die, All Of You' T.J. Lane, Alleged Gunmen In High School Shooting, Writes Chilling Letter (DETAILS)", GlobalGrind. Retrieved on February 27, 2012.

Type of Gun

The gun has been identified as both a semi-automatic and a revolver, and as such I feel it should be simply left as handgun or pistol. It has however never been identified as a Mark 3, and there seems to be a consensus that it was indeed a Ruger (Ruger makes both revolvers and semi-automatics)

It was emphatically described as a revolver here http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204653604577250930031134726.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.201.116.15 (talk) 01:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody know date of shooter's birthday?=PRAVEDNIK 96 (talk) 18:30, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It seems correct that it was a Mark III by this article http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=233077 . It also goes over the fact that his grandfather is missing a .22 revolver but LE had released that it was a Rugar Mark III that was bought by his uncle and stolen by him.

The fact that the gun was bought legally makes no difference it was a stolen gun which would make it an illegal gun, a pet peeve of mine that people think that a legally bought gun is always a "legal gun" if it is taken by someone that shouldn't have access to it it's no longer legal. Latendresse76 (talk) 00:07, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suspect->perpetrator

He is no longer a suspect, now that the sentencing has been done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.47.102.164 (talk) 07:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Filmed Deaths

why is this thereWikiOriginal-9 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:35, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nvm, surveillance videoWikiOriginal-9 (talk)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 September 2014

This edit request to Chardon High School shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the "Shooter" section: the second sentence states, "law enforcement officials had surrounded a house belonging to Lane." According to the reference article the house belonged to Thomas Lane, the shooter's father, and not to the "Lane" who is the subject of the sentence and article. The sentence should be rewritten to say, "law enforcement officials had surrounded a house belonging to Thomas M. Lane Jr., the suspect's father." 72.224.235.175 (talk) 13:28, 12 September 2014 (UTC) Not done: The page's protection level and/or your user rights have changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Stickee (talk) 06:07, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Looks like the lead needs a little tidying up. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 19:20, 19 December 2014 (UTC).

Edit after the fact

Summarize Lead and article to read less like breaking news. Note the unusual aspect of the personal rivalry between Lane and King, as this is distinctive to this case. Delete speculation by neighbor that gun belonged to grandfather; this was disproven and does not need to be included just because it was published. Delete political responses from Lead; these are not unusual.Parkwells (talk) 18:09, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Add wrongful death suits of 2014-2019

Added news about families' wrongful death suits against the school systems and certain employees, and against T. J. Lane's family.Parkwells (talk) 18:23, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weapon

The gun and knife were recovered with Lane when he was arrested.Sparky61984 (talk) 05:06, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[IBT-1] Cite error: The named reference IBT was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[GlobalGrind-2] "'Die, All Of You' T.J. Lane, Alleged Gunmen In High School Shooting, Writes Chilling Letter (DETAILS)", GlobalGrind. Retrieved on February 27, 2012.

[1]

[2]