Wikivoyage talk:Listings

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Price changes and typo fixes considered as breach of guidelines?

I am the owner of Discover Ishigaki tours from Ishigaki island Japan.

I tried to change our listed prices due to an actual price change and to fix a few Typos but for some reason I was declined due to Guidelines breach.

I followed the guidelines and even pretty much copied the way other businesses have listed themselves but I was denied.

Please teach me what I did wrong as the listing here is important to us and we would hate to see our customers disappointed when thy arrive and realize the price is different then our listing here. Discoverishigaki (talk) 11:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ibaman: Ground Zero (talk) 11:25, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I reverted the edit for now. Rollbacks for such constructive edits aren't productive. SHB2000 (t | c | m) 12:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Digital platforms for guided tours

Swept in from the pub

What is your experience for digital platforms for guided tours, and which opportunities are there to integrate them with Wikivoyage? The Stockholm City Museum just launched Historiska vandringar ("history walks"); an experimental platform for walking tours, with interactive maps and audioguides. It is free of charge, but copyrighted. Currently they have one tour for the history of Roma and Travellers in Stockholm. On Wikivoyage, we can make itineraries which paraphrase proprietary guidebooks, as long as they respect copyright and avoid plagiarism (see Haunted Stockholm tour). Should we allow links to these platforms, if they are free of charge, in English, and reasonably useful? If they are in foreign language, shall we use them as source material for Wikivoyage articles? /Yvwv (talk) 19:59, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Beamz, which I think has closed down, kept me sane through lockdowns. Professional guides provided live walking tours of their cities, for tips, and answered viewers questions submitted through the chat function. I quite enjoyed them. I think that Wikivoyage's concept of travel should be broad enough to include digital tours. They can also be a useful tool for trip planning -- I watch YouTube videos as part of my trip planning to supplement my research through Wikivoyage and travel blogs. I have stopped buying guidebooks. Ground Zero (talk) 20:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

A Roma and Traveller tour would certainly make sense to have as a complement to Stockholm history tour in a manner similar to Jewish Stockholm tour; for copyright and originality the text should however be rewritten from scratch. Probably, a few other waypoints should be added; possibly a suggested detour to Villa Jularbo in Nacka, or the Roma site in Flaten. /Yvwv (talk) 20:30, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Restaurant noise

Swept in from the pub

The restaurant critic at the Washington Post says the most common question he gets from the (mostly American) public is about tipping, and the second most common question is whether he could recommend a quiet restaurant. He has been giving noise ratings in his reviews for years.

Noisy restaurants are a problem for people who are hard of hearing (about one in six adults), but also for people who are tired or jetlagged, so I would like to suggest that we try to include this information when we can. It doesn't have to be a decibel rating or in every entry. Try something like "energetic atmosphere with live music" for a noisier place, or "good place for a quiet conversation" for a quieter place. Different readers will have different goals, so I don't think we should frame the sound level as a problem, though I suppose "ear protection recommended" might be appropriate in a few instances. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

This is something that most travel guides don't do very well in, but one that we could potentially capitalise on. Unlike tipping culture, issues with noise are a thing everywhere, though good luck trying to find a quiet restaurant in large parts of South Asia and Southeast Asia. I'd be interested to hear suggestions on how to integrate restaurant noise levels into eat listings. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 02:45, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

If nothing else, it could be included in the description when a place is notably quiet or noisy for its location. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

This seems to be obviously useful information to add to the description of a restaurant if you have it. I don't see the need for discussion. Plunge forward. Ground Zero (talk) 21:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

For travellers who are not native speakers of the local language, a quieter restaurant would also be useful. /Yvwv (talk) 12:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Missing "add listing"

Swept in from the pub

The [add listing] now suddenly is only present at "==" headings and not anymore at "===" headings. FredTC (talk) 14:44, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Jdlrobson: Any insight on this? --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 21:55, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

This relates to upstream changes relating to heading markup in a recent MediaWiki release. I have had no time to look into this yet due to personal reasons and it is likely to take me some time to understand and fix it given the existing state of the code 😓.

If someone is technical and wants to debug this and send a pull request we can get to a fix quicker.

The only workaround right now is to use Vector 2022. It is the default Wikimedia skin for good reason but I realize that might not be what you want to hear.

I'll be sure to update here when I have capacity to look into this issue more. Jdlrobson (talk) 23:10, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Tracked in https://github.com/jdlrobson/Gadget-Workshop/issues/8

A fix should be out in beta by end of week. Jdlrobson (talk) 22:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I've pushed a potential fix to the beta. Once I hear from at least 2 people that the bug is gone and there are no other bugs, I'll update the non-beta version. Thanks in advance! Jdlrobson (talk) 04:55, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Seems to be fixed in beta. I haven't checked for other bugs. —Granger (talk · contribs) 03:07, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Zip codes in consulate listings

In the User talk:Anyone150#"Emergency situations" thread, User:Anyone150 gave a special reason for deviating from the usual practice of not including zip codes in U.S. addresses in listings for consulates:

"The zip codes were added should they only accept documents by mail/courier which can be the case."

If this is correct, it would be a good reason to change our guidelines on zip codes and agree that they can be included in listings for consulates and embassies in the U.S. Your opinions? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support, but make this worldwide (and not just for the US). Typically we don't include it because they tend to be obvious, but this is a clear instance in which they're needed. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 10:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: Nobody should expect WV to provide guidance about consular policies. If a consulate wants mailed documents, a traveler should contact the consulate (or at least visit their web page) for ''official'' information (including full address to which documents can be mailed). Though it ostensibly sounds reasonable to include such info here, it's actually unreasonable and simply creates another detail that can quickly become outdates, either creating a maintenance headache or simply mis-informing a traveler. Mrkstvns (talk) 16:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

  "Though it ostensibly sounds reasonable to include such info here, it's actually unreasonable and simply creates another detail that can quickly become outdates.." Just them moving to another address altogether outdates quickly is already maintenance headache. They do move, some more frequently then others. So it's already a maintenance headache for anyone editing it and a frustration for anyone who's relying on WV to give accurate and up to date information. Anyone150 (talk) 19:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support In the U.S. postal (zip) codes are part of the addresses. I've included the two letter state code and five digit zip codes on several consulate listings as they can require documents to be sent to them by mail or by courier especially if the applicant lives (or is staying) further away from the consulate and cannot come in or being told to send it in. So everything is right there in front of the user. We can revert back to the older standards if the majority consensus decides to leave out the additional information as the users can also figure out by looking up the zip codes in the websites or on the USPS website. Anyone150 (talk) 14:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Arguing that zip codes are part of addresses would seem to be an argument for including them in every U.S. address. Is that the argument you mean to make? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:29, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: per Mrkstvns, anyone sending documents to a consulate should verify its current address on the consulate's website. It would be foolish to rely on second-hand information from Wikivoyage or another website. Ground Zero (talk) 19:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose For most listings we should include the information that the reader would use to make first contact with the business, particularly if it is somewhere that I reader won't just pop into because they are passing. 30 years ago a guidebook would include a full postal address because people would write to the consulate saying "please send me a visa application form". Today the traveller will look at the consulate's website, email or phone before writing a letter. AlasdairW (talk) 21:10, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
• I feel neutral on this proposal. On the whole, I'd probably approve of adding zip codes to all addresses, because everyone adds them all the time except here, but only if it were less of an effort to make every address a full mailing address than to waste time telling people to stop doing that. So basically, I think the mistake was made a couple of decades ago, and we're stuck with it, but on the more limited question addressed in this thread, I'm neutral. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I suppose requirement of using snail mail depends on the country the consulate represents rather than the host country, so this should not be about a single country. I also think it is natural to check the postal address from their web page, or when being asked to post some documents. If we do add postal codes, I'd remind that the postal code of the physical location may differ from the postal code to use for mail; over here postal codes for post boxes differ from those of street addresses. –LPfi (talk) 06:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Add shorter, more complete list of what doesn't get a listing template

There's a lot of really useful information on this page, but I think we need to have an illustrative list of what doesn't get a listing template, and also what doesn't get listed at all. In the first category, we should include things like names of dishes, mere names of activities (e.g. "Agricultural tours") or generic-sounding places (e.g. "Local market") without any specific location information, contact information or other details, in addition to other types of potential listings covered in their own sections, which we'll naturally keep and link to. In the second category, I think we should put limo companies and bus charter companies, but that's a different issue. I'll probably start working on wordings within the next few days. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think the Do example should also be changed. Although a flight tour of Chicago is a an allowable listing, it may suggest to those offering private limo tours that they are also welcome. Something like a short local walking track would be a better example. AlasdairW (talk) 22:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)