No front of the American War of Independence was more consistently violent than the northern frontier in what is today central New York State. Relative to the size of the forces involved, the costliest battle of the war took place at Oriskany near present-day Rome, New York, where the Patriot casualty rate exceeded 50 percent. In the infamous Cherry Valley Massacre southwest of Canajoharie, New York, thirty non-combatant women and children were killed by flintlock and tomahawk. Lying undefended from the north, west and south, the Mohawk River Valley was ravaged by Crown forces descending out of Canada every year from 1777 to 1782, laying waste to homes, mills, and crops. Small raids upon frontier settlements by parties of Native Americans and Loyalists occurred repeatedly with the goal both of destruction and capture. Over the six years of active fighting on the northern frontier, hundreds of men and boys from New York settlements were force-marched to Canada and pressed into Native families, British military service, or prison.
One of the best documented of these frontier attacks was the raid on Remensnyder’s Bush in present-day Manheim, Herkimer County, New York, on April 3, 1780.[1] Precisely because this raid was so well documented, the information we have is often contradictory. Being the third assault on this little settlement in the course of the war and the second that year, no small degree of confusion has cropped up among chroniclers mixing the three incidents together or mistaking the events of one for those of another. No previous writer has produced an accurate list of those captured, nor have any attempted a broad accounting of their fates after the raid.
Even careful historians have fallen short of producing an accurate list of the captives. Historian Jeptha Root Simms devoted two full pages of a book to the event.[2] Based primarily on the testimony of John Windecker, captured that day when just thirteen years old, it stands as the most thorough single description of the raid in print. Yet from the very beginning of his account, Simms got the date wrong.[3] He included names of men who were not captured that day, claimed some who were captured were not, and misstated the names of still others. Although a valuable text, it is subject to too many verifiable errors to be allowed to stand uncorrected.
A more recent treatment is that of the prolific contemporary Canadian historian Gavin K. Watt.[4] While Watt’s description of the raid is very brief, he includes in an appendix what appears to be a complete list of the captives. Unfortunately Watt missed one name while including another who was captured in 1778. He also overcounted the men and boys captured from a single family as well as overcounting the total number of captives taken to Canada.
Thankfully we have a contemporary document written by a Loyalist officer in Canada that stands as the most reliable starting point for assembling a definitive list of captives. Titled “Prisoners Names taken on the Royal Grant in Tryon County in April 1780,” this document in undated but appears in the Haldimand Papers placed between letters dated April 24 and May 1, 1780.[5] This strongly suggests a creation date very near the time the captives arrived at Carleton Island around April 20.[6] The document was written by Col. Daniel Claus, a Loyalist officer engaged with the Six Nations in Canada and stationed in Montreal at the time. Claus’s name is well known to students of the Revolutionary War in New York; he was a son-in-law of and deputy to Sir William Johnson, Superintendent of Indian Affairs of the Northern Department of the British Indian Department until his death in 1774. Claus was also a brother-in-law to Sir John Johnson, commander of the King’s Royal Regiment of New York during the war and Sir William’s heir. Both Claus and Johnson were significant—although by 1780, effectively former—landowners in the upper Mohawk Valley and may have known some of the captives personally. Claus’s list reads:
Prisoners Names taken on the Royal Grant in Tryon County in April 1780
John Seifer ……. Sr Jn Johnsons Tent.
Jacobus Van Slyke ..
John Forbes …
Jacob Youcker …… do. do.
John Garter
John Helmer … Col. Clauss Tent.
John Windecker.
Gerard Van Slyke
Barthol.w Pickert
Joseph Newman,
Daniel Lobdell Sen.r Sr. Jn.o Johns.n Tent.
Dan. Lobdell Jun.r …. d.o
Lockwood Street …. d.o
Isaac Lobdell ….. d.o
Ekbert Williams …. d.o
Interestingly, Claus recorded the tenancy of captives who lived on his land or the land of his brother-in-law. Eight of the fifteen were residents of the Royal Grant, also known as Kingsland, a tract of land of some ninety thousand acres that abutted Remensnyder’s Bush to the north and east.[7] The other seven settlers have no recorded residency, most likely because they were not Royal Grant tenants and thus of less interest to Claus.
Thirteen of the fifteen names are easily corroborated with contemporaneous documentation produced by Crown officials in Canada and in some cases Patriot records as well. The final two names in the list, however, pose a challenge. Ekbert Williams appears nowhere else in any known documents, but an Albert Williams is mentioned in both Patriot lists of captives from Tryon County and in Crown documents. Taking “Ekbert” to be the same person as Albert corroborates fourteen of the fifteen. Isaac Lobdell poses a special problem discussed below.
Both Crown and Patriot documents suggest that Claus’s list is incomplete. Two letters written around the time of the raid by Loyalist officers to Gen. Frederick Haldimand, governor of Quebec, indicate that seventeen captives in total were taken.[8] Col. Jacob Klock, commander of the 2nd Regiment of the Tryon County (New York) Militia, wrote two letters to his superiors immediately after the raid claiming the total was nineteen.[9]
American military pension applications show that two boys, each a son of a captive listed by Claus, were overlooked in the original list. One was fourteen-year-old John Garter Junior. In his 1835 application, Garter (now spelling his name Carter) went into impressive detail about the raid, his capture, his own fate, and the fate of his father.[10] The other was eleven-year-old Zadock Lobdell, son of Daniel Lobdell Senior. Zadock’s 1832 testimony of his capture and captivity was written in support of his brother Joseph’s pension application.[11] The addition of these two boys brings Claus’s list to seventeen, matching the figure reported to General Haldimand.
There remains the matter of the younger Lobdell boys to resolve. While Isaac Lobdell appears on Claus’s original list, that name does not appear in any other Crown documents, even those listing Daniel Lobdell Senior and his sons. Zadock Lobdell does not appear in any contemporary documents at all, although James Lobdell does. Gavin K. Watt collected all these names and concluded that six Lobdells were captured at Remensnyder’s Bush. Care must be taken here. In a 1793 document attesting to Daniel Lobdell Senior’s loyalty to the Patriot cause during the war, two Tryon County Militia officers testified that Daniel “was Taken prisoner by a party of Indians, himself and three sons, one of abought Sixteen years of age, the other two younger.”[12] It is highly likely this information came directly from Daniel himself. The number three is further supported by a 1782 list of Tryon County settlers held captive by the British and generated for New York Gov. George Clinton, as well as a 1783 Crown list of American prisoners held in Montreal at the end of the war. Each of those lists records Daniel followed by three more Lobdells.[13]
Isaac Lobdell does not appear in either of these lists, nor do the two lists agree. The Patriot list gives Daniel, Daniel Junior, Hezekial, and Calap. The Crown list gives Daniel, Daniel Junior, Joseph, and James. Although Hezekial and Calap never appear again, James can be found in several records: with his father as a prisoner at Fort Chambly outside Montreal in June, July, and August 1780;[14] with his father (or possibly his brother Daniel Junior) on the muster roll of the First Battalion of the King’s Royal Regiment of New York in May 1781;[15] and on a similar muster roll with his father in December 1782.[16]
The problem here is that Daniel Lobdell had no son named James.[17] Thankfully the 1783 Crown list of American prisoners at Montreal provides both names and ages, information that makes it possible to sort out this tangle. That list gives the captive Lobdells as: Daniel Senior, forty-two, Daniel Junior, nineteen; Joseph, seventeen; and James, fifteen. The name Joseph is accurate and confirmed by several documents besides his own 1832 military pension application, including: his record of baptism;[18] a May 1783 pay certificate granted for service in the Tryon County Militia from April 1, 1780 inclusive of the time “during my captivity”;[19] and historian Nathaniel Benton’s mention of “Joe,” the son of “Old Mr. Lobdell . . . who at an early period of the war went to Canada with a party of Indians, and remained there until after peace was proclaimed.”[20] It is certain that “Isaac” in Claus’s original list is actually Joseph, indicated by the appearance of “Isaac Lobdell” in a 1785 audit of payments to Tryon County Militia men for service “during their captivity.” The rate of payment (five and three-quarters shillings per month), length of service (thirty-seven months, twenty-seven days), and total payment (£100.10.3) are each exactly the same as those of Joseph Lobdell.[21]
The ages of the captives provided by the Crown documents allow us to also identify the third Lobdell son. The youngest of the three, usually recorded as “James,” is listed as age twelve in July 1780, fourteen in December 1782, and fifteen in August 1783. In Zadock Lobdell’s 1832 testimony in support of his brother Joseph’s pension application, he states he “was about Eleven Years old when he was taken prisoner.” This is strong indication that “James” is actually Zadock, born in April, May, or June 1768.[22]
One last inconsistency demands resolution. As mentioned above, the Patriot side claimed nineteen settlers were taken captive while the Crown tally was only seventeen. The difference between the two accounts rests most likely on two men who were captured in the raid but never arrived in Canada. Simms reported that both Albert Williams and his father were captured on the Royal Grant.[23] But Albert’s father, “owing to his age and infirmities, was permitted to return home.” The second man was George Eadle, captured along with Jacob Youker on scout. At some point during the march, Eadle escaped and returned home to Remensnyder’s Bush.[24]
This research enables a definitive list to be compiled of the men and boys captured on April 3, 1780 at Remensnyder’s Bush. Included in the accompanying table are the captives’ names, ages at the time of capture, location of capture, and notes regarding their fates through the course of the war and afterwards so far as I have been able to discover. Further research would surely turn up more interesting information on these settlers.
The captives of the raid on Remensnyder’s Bush, Tryon County, New York, 3 April 1780
| Name & sources | Alt. surname | Age | Where captured | Notes |
| George Eadle
(source ee) |
Adle
Etel |
̴47 | On scout to the Royal Grant | Private, 2TCM. Escaped during the march to Canada and returned home. Received pay for 22 days service (April 3-35, 1780). |
| John Forbes
(sources a b c e f n w x z) |
Forbus
Forbush |
32 | Home of Frederick Windecker, Remensnyder’s Bush | Private, 1TCM. Prisoner at Fort Chambly, June-September 1780. Sent to Quebec for exchange, October 1782. Died c1788 from effects of imprisonment. |
| John/Johannes Garter Sr.
(sources a b c e f i j w x y) |
Carter | 34 | Grist mill, Remensnyder’s Bush | Prisoner at Fort Chambly, June-September 1780. Private, 2KRRNY, enlisted November 25, 1780. Convicted of mutiny, June 6, 1781. Sentenced to punishment of 1000 lashes, June 25, 1781. Died of his wounds. |
| John/Johannes Garter Jr.
(sources m w x y) |
ditto | 14 | Grist mill, Remensnyder’s Bush | Son of John Garter Senior. Servant to Col. John Campbell of the British Indian Department for the duration of the war. Prisoner in service to “Coll Campbell” in Montreal, July 22, 1782. |
| John/Johannes Helmer
(sources a b c e f i p t w aa) |
23 | Remensnyder’s Bush | Possibly Private, 3TCM. Prisoner at Fort Chambly, June-September 1780. Claimed to be a prisoner in irons for the duration of the war. Private, 2KRRNY, enlisted November 25, 1780, on roll April 25, 1783. | |
| Daniel Lobdell Sr.
(sources a b c e g o q w x) |
Labdel
Labdon Lapton |
40 | Royal Grant | Corporal, 2TCM. Prisoner at Fort Chambly, June-August 1780. Private, 1KRRNY, likely enlisted April 17, 1780, on roll May 17, 1781. Prisoner at Montreal, August 30, 1783. |
| Daniel Lobdell Jr.
(sources a g? q w x) |
ditto | 16 | Royal Grant | Son of Daniel Lobdell Senior. Private, 1KRRNY, possibly enlisted April 17, 1780. Prisoner at Montreal, August 30, 1783. Settled in Canada by 1789. UEL. |
| Joseph Lobdell
(sources a q w x bb) |
ditto | 14 | Royal Grant | Son of Daniel Lobdell Senior. Servant to Captain Gilbert Tice of the British Indian Department for the duration of the war. Prisoner at Montreal, August 30, 1783. |
| Zadock Lobdell
(sources b c e g o q w x bb) |
ditto | 11 | Royal Grant | Son of Daniel Lobdell Senior. Prisoner at Fort Chambly, June-August 1780. Private, 1KRRNY, enlisted August 25, 1780, on roll May 17, 1781. Servant to Capt. Alexander Fraser of the British Indian Department. Prisoner at Montreal, August 30, 1783. |
| Joseph Newman
(sources a q v w x cc) |
27 | Grist mill or “in the road,” Remensnyder’s Bush | Private, 2TCM. Prisoner at Montreal, August 30, 1783. Prisoner at Montreal, August 1787. Claimed to have spent the war as a prisoner in Niagara. | |
| Bartholomew Pickert
(sources a i p q t w x) |
Picker
Pickard |
47 | Grist mill, Remensnyder’s Bush | Private, 2TCM. Private, 2KRRNY, enlisted November 25, 1780, on roll April 25, 1783. Prisoner at Montreal, August 30, 1783. |
| John Seifer
(sources a b c d k m w x) |
Cypher
Seifert |
53 | Home of Frederick Windecker, Remensnyder’s Bush | Private, 1TCM. Prisoner at Fort Chambly, June-July 1780. Transferred to Quebec, July 25, 1780. Petitioned Governor Haldimand for release from Montmorency, January 12, 1782. Prisoner at Montmorency, July 22, 1782. |
| Lockwood Street
(sources a l s w x) |
12 | Royal Grant (likely) | Fifer, Indian Department at Niagara. Settled in Canada 1800. | |
| James/Jacobus Van Slyke
(sources a b c e f m n w) |
30 | Grist mill or home of Frederick Windecker, Remensnyder’s Bush | Brother of Gerard Van Slyke. Brother-in-law of John Windecker. Private, 2TCM. Prisoner at Fort Chambly, June-September 1780. Prisoner at Coteau-du-Lac, July 22, 1782. Sent to Quebec for exchange, October 1782. | |
| Gerard/Gerrit Van Slyke
(sources a r w) |
Vanslike | 12 | Home of Frederick Windecker, Remensnyder’s Bush | Brother of James Van Slyke. Drummer, Capt. Andrew Bradt’s Company, Butler’s Rangers. |
| Ekbert/Albert Williams
(sources a p t u x) |
18 | Royal Grant | Private, 2KRRNY, enlisted March 25, 1781, on roll April 25, 1783. Settled in Canada by 1784. UEL. | |
| [William?] Williams | na | Royal Grant | Father of Albert Williams. Released “owing to his age and infirmities.” | |
| John Windecker
(sources a i p t w x) |
13 | Home of Frederick Windecker, Remensnyder’s Bush | Son of Frederick Windecker. Brother-in-law of James Van Slyke. Drummer, 2KRRNY, enlisted July 17, 1780, on roll April 25, 1783. | |
| Jacob Youker
(sources a h w y dd) |
Youger
Uher Yucker |
22 | On scout to Royal Grant | Private, 2TCM. Private, 1KRRNY, enlisted April 3, 1780. Deserted October 26, 1780 and returned home. |
TCM = Tryon County Militia; the number preceding this abbreviation indicates the regiment.
KRRNY = King’s Royal Regiment of New York; the number preceding this abbreviation indicates the regiment.
UEL = United Empire Loyalist.
Sources
a. “Prisoners Names taken on the Royal Grant in Tryon County in April 1780.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers. Correspondence with Lt. Col. D. Claus, n.d., 1777-1784. MG21, Add. Mss. 21774, fo. 113, p. 117.
b. “Return of the Rebel Prisoners in Fort Chambly, 1st June 1780.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21843, fo. 64, p. 52C-52D.
c. “Return of the Rebel Prisoners in Fort Chambly, 1st July 1780.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21843, fo. 72, p. 61A-61B.
d. “Return of rebel Prisoners brought to Quebec the 25th of July 1780.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21843, fo. 75, p. 63.
e. “Return of the Rebel Prisoners in Fort Chambly, 1st August 1780.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21843, fo. 81, p. 68A.
f. “Return of the Rebel Prisoners in Fort Chambly, 1st September 1780.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21843, fo. 91, p. 75A-75B.
g. “A Roll of Non Commissioned Officers, Drummers & Private men Inlisted for the First Battalion of the Kings Royal Regim’t of New York Since the Formation of it to the present Date. Commanded by Lieut. Col. Sir John Johnson, Knight & Bar’t. Point Clair 17th May 1781.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21818, fos. 243-246, p. 208-211.
h. “Return of Casuals of the Kings Royal Ref. of New York since the Formation of it to the Present Date Point Claire 17th May 1781.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21818, fos. 247-248, p. 212-213.
i. “A Roll of Men Inlisted for the Second Battalion of The Kings Royal Reg’t of New York. Point Claire 17th May 1781.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21818, fos. 249-250, p. 214-215.
j. Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, General Orders by Sir Guy Carleton and Gen’l Haldimand, 1776-1783. MG21, Add. Mss 21743, p. 155-159.
k. “Memorial of of the Two Rebel Prisoners working at M’tmorancy, 12th Jan’y 1782.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Papers and Correspondence relating to Rebel Prisoners, 1778-1783. MG21, Add. Mss. 21843, fo. 220, p. 194-195.
l. “Pay list of Col’l Johnsons Department to 25th March 1782.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Letters and Papers relating to Indian Affairs, 1782-1787. MG21, Add. Mss. 21770, fos. 7-8, p. 6-10.
m. “Return of Rebel Prisoners in the Province of Quebec, Quebec, July 22nd 1782.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Papers and Correspondence relating to Rebel Prisoners, 1778-1783. MG21, Add. Mss. 21843, fos. 278-282, p. 247A-247Q.
n. “Return of Prisoners sent to Quebec for Exchange, October 1782.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Papers and Correspondence relating to Rebel Prisoners, 1778-1783. MG21, Add. Mss. 21843, fos. 295-296, p. 257A-257C.
o. “Privates, Non-Commissioned Officers, First Battalion, King’s Royal Regiment of New York.” Muster Roll of the First battalion, KRR. Probably December 1782. Transcript in Mary Beacock Fryer and William A. Smy, Rolls of the Provincial (Loyalist) Corps., Canadian Command, American Revolutionary period (Toronto: Dundurn Press Ltd., 1981), 26-41.
p. “Return of the Names Size, Age, Country & time of Service of the N.C. Officers, Drummers & Private of the 2d Battal’n of the Royal Regiment of New York,” April 25, 1783. Library and Archives Canada. War Office Papers, Headquarters Records, Letters and Returns, 1775-1785. WO28, vol. 10, pt. 4.
q. “Return of the American Prisoners,” Montreal, August 30, 1783. Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Correspondence with the Inspectors of Loyalists, 1781-1784. MG21, Add. Mss. 21825, fos. 136-137.
r. “Return of Persons under the Description of Loyalists specifying the number age & sexes of each family in Captain Andrew Bradts Compy in the Corps of Rangers, Niagara, 30th Nov 1783.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Correspondence with Officers at Niagara and Papers, 1777-1784. MG21, Add. Mss. 21765, fos. 360-361, p. 390.
s. “Return of Persons under the Description of Loyalists, specifying the number, age and Sexes Resident at Niagara 1 Decr 1783.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Correspondence with Officers at Niagara and Papers, 1777-1784. MG21, Add. Mss. 21765, fo. 372, p. 391a.
t. “Roll of the 2d Batt’on K’s RRNY”. February 28, 1784. Library and Archive Canada. James Pringle Fonds, Royal Regiment of New York. MG23 B23, File 3, p. 637-641.
u. “Return of Disbanded Troops & Loyalists Settled In Township No. 3 (Cataraqui) Mustered this 6 October 1784.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Musters of Refugee Loyalists desiring to settle in Canada, 1784. MG21, Add. Mss. 21828, fos. 83-88, p. 71-73.
v. “Returns of the Americain prissonners since the 11 instante–,” August 18, 1787. Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand Papers, Returns of Loyalists in Canada, 1778-1787. MG21, Add. Mss. 21826, fo. 129, p. 182.
w. George Clinton to Frederick Haldimand including a list of 159 prisoners taken “on the frontiers of the state” to Canada, Albany, March 27, 1781. Transcript in Public Papers of George Clinton, First Governor of New York. Volume 6 (Albany: J. B. Lyon, 1902), 723-727.
x. Andrew Fink Junior to George Clinton including “A List of the Mens Names who were taken Prisoners by the Enemy in Tryon County,” February 20, 1782. National Archives. First Battalion of Pennsylvania Troops. M246, Reel 80, Jacket 2, Roll 16, p. 52-58.
y. Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. National Archives. M804, Roll 485, Application number R1750, John Carter.
z. Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. National Archives. M804, Roll 998, Application number R9517, John Forbes.
aa. Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. National Archives. M804, Roll 1249, Application number S22827, John Helmer.
bb. Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. National Archives. M804, Roll 1574, Application number S13797, Joseph Lobdell.
cc. Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. National Archives. M804, Roll 1813, Application number R7626, Joseph Newman or Elizabeth Numan.
dd. Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. National Archives. M804, Roll 2661, Application number S11925, Jacob Youker.
ee. New York State Archives. New York State Auditor General Copies of Accounts Audited by the Auditor General for Bills Presented to the State, 1780-1794. Series A0870, Book A, p. 286.
[1] Variously spelled as Rheimensnyder’s, Rheim Snyder’s, and Snyder’s (with and without the apostrophe).
[2] Jeptha Root Simms, The Frontiersmen of New York, Volume II (Albany: Geo. C. Riggs, 1883), 560-562.
[3] Simms wrote, “On the third of April, 1778, and about two weeks after the sacking of Fairfield …” The “sacking of Fairfield” refers to the March 15, 1778 raid on Klocks Bush located about half a mile north of what eventually became the village of Fairfield, New York. While there was indeed a raid on Remensnyder’s Bush two weeks later on March 29, Simms’s description and his names of the captives make it clear that he is referring to the April 3, 1780 raid.
[4] Gavin K. Watt, For Want of His Silver Plate: Sir John Johnson’s Raid of May 1780 (Carleton Place, ON: Global Heritage Press, 2018), 12, 52.
[5] “Prisoners Names taken on the Royal Grant in Tryon County in April 1780.” Library and Archives Canada. Haldimand papers. Correspondence with Lt. Col. D. Claus, n.d., 1777-1784. MG21, Add. Mss. 21774, fo. 113, page 117. A transcript of this document appears in Ken D. Johnson, The Bloodied Mohawk: The American Revolution in the Words of Fort Plank’s Defenders and Other Mohawk Valley Partisans (Rockport, ME: Picton Press, 2000), 22.
[6] Alexander Fraser to Sir Frederick Haldimand, April 20, 1780, Library and Archives Canada, Haldimand Papers: Letters from Officers Commanding at Carleton Island, 1779-1783. MG21, Add. Mss. 21787, pp. 122-125.
[7] It was called the “Royal Grant” because the tract was so large that, when Sir William Johnson purchased it from the Mohawks in 1760, he was required to secure direct royal approval as a condition for legal recognition of his possession. This was granted by King George III in 1769.
[8] Fraser to Haldimand, April 20, 1780. Daniel Claus to Haldimand, May 1, 1780, in Library and Archives Canada, Haldimand Papers, “Correspondence with Lt. Col. D. Claus, n.d. 1777-1784” (MG21, Add. Mss. 21774), fo. 114, pp. 118-119.
[9] Jacob Klock to George Clinton, April 5, 1780, in Public Papers of George Clinton, First Governor of New York. Volume 5 (Albany: James B. Lyon, 1901), 589-590. Klock to Goose Van Schaick, April 5, 1780, in ibid., 631.
[10] Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. NARA microfilm M804, Roll 485, Application number R1750, John Carter.
[11] Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. NARA microfilm M804, Roll 1574, Application number S13797, Joseph Lobdell.
[12] The document is transcribed in Julia Harrison Lobdell, Simon Lobdell – 1646 of Milford, Conn. and His Descendants (Self-published, 1907), 40-41.
[13] “A List of the Mens Names who were taken Prisoner by the Enemy in Tryon County,” February 20, 1782. NARA microfilm M246, Reel 80, Jacket 2, Roll 16, pp. 52-58. A transcript of the accompanying letter only is in Public Papers of George Clinton, First Governor of New York. Volume 7 (Albany: James B. Lyon, 1901), 407-409. Also “Return of the American Prisoners,” August 30, 1783. Library and Archives of Canada, Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21825, fo. 136-137.
[14] “Return of the Rebel Prisoners in Fort Chambly 1st June 1780,” Haldimand papers, MG21 Add. Mss 21843, fo. 64, pages 52C-52D; “Return of the Rebel Prisoners in Fort Chambly 1st July 1780.” Haldimand papers, MG21 Add. Mss 21843, fo. 72, pages 61A-61B; “Return of the Rebel Prisoners in Fort Chambly 1st August 1780.” Haldimand papers, MG21 Add. Mss 21843, fo. 81, page 68A.
[15] “A Roll of Non Commissioned Officers, Drummers & Private men Inlisted for the First Battalion of the Kings Royal Regim’t of York Since the Formation of it to the present Date. Commanded by Lieut. Col. Sir John Johnson, Knight & Bar’t. Point Clair 17th May 1781.” Haldimand Papers, MG21, Add. Mss. 21818, fos. 243-246, pp. 208, 210.
[16] “Privates, Non-Commissioned Officers, First Battalion, King’s Royal Regiment of New York.” Muster Roll of the First battalion, KRR. Probably December 1782. Transcript in Mary Beacock Fryer and William A. Smy, Rolls of the Provincial (Loyalist) Corps., Canadian Command, American Revolutionary period (Dundurn Press Ltd., 1981), 26-41. James and Daniel appear on p. 36.
[17] Lobdell, Simon Lobdell, 161-163.
[18] “South Salem Church Records,” Salem, Westchester County, New York. FHL microfilm 982332 item 9. Joseph Lobdle son of Daniel, baptized August 31, 1766. Presuming Joseph was born not long before his baptism, he would have been seventeen years old on August 30, 1783, just as recorded.
[19] Pay certificate for Joseph Lobdell. New York State Comptroller’s Office. Revolutionary War Accounts and Claims. Series A0200, Box RM-14-17-A, Roll 7, Page 002121.
[20] Nathaniel S. Benton, A History of Herkimer County Including the Upper Mohawk Valley, From the Earliest Period to the Present Time (Albany: J. Munsell, 1856), 460.
[21] “State of New York […] Persons for their Pay during their Captivity.” New York State Auditor General. Copies of Accounts Audited by the Auditor General for Bills Presented to the State, audited August 6, 1785. New York State Archives, Series A0870, Book A, pages 264-265.
[22] Simms records Zadock’s name as “Sidney,” writing “Sidney Lapham was too young to walk in [the snowshoes], and his father was obliged to carry him on his back a great party of the way.” See Simms, The Frontiersmen of New York, 561.
[23] Ibid., 554, 560-561.
[24] Eadle and his escape are mentioned in several documents. See: Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files. NARA microfilm M804, Roll 2661, application number S11925, Jacob Youker; Benton, A History of Herkimer County, 90; George A. Hardin, History of Herkimer County, New York, Illustrated With Portraits of Many of Its Citizens (Syracuse, NY: D. Mason & Co., 1893), 61.
One thought on “The Captives of the Raid on Remensnyder’s Bush, Tryon County, New York, April 3, 1780”
Your research is very much appreciated. It provides a well sourced accounting of the prisoners taken during the April 3, 1780 raid on Remensnyder’s Bush. George Eadle and John Seifert are my Patriot Ancestors. I have several other Patriot Ancestors that lived in Remensnyder’s Bush, the now Town of Manheim prior to and during the Revolutionary War; Henry Remensnyder, Sgt. Johannes Ritter (Battle of Oriskany) and Son, Frederick Ritter.
If your identification of Albert Williams is correct then the actual facts concerning Albert Williams are contrary to the well known historical account by Simms that both the father William [Eleazer?] Williams and his son [Albert?] were captured on the Royal Grant. Also, William [Eleazer?], “owing to his age and infirmities, was permitted to return home.” This explanation that they were taken prisoner and the father was released due to his old age would have provided cover for the truth.
Eleazer Williams father of Albert was a Loyalist from the beginning of the Revolutionary War. Eleazer Williams joined the Royal “Standards” at the Royal Grant about 1779 as on a certain certificate by Captain William R. Crawford of the 2 KRRNY.
Albert reported that his father, Eleazer suffered much on account of his harboring and helping his Majesty’s men while residing in the Royal Grant. Eleazer sent his son Albert into Canada while a boy under age to serve his Majesty in the year 1779 or the year after [April 3, 1780?].
Eleazer gave his son, Albert to the care of Captain Crawford at the aforesaid time when he and his men were at his father’s house at the Royal Grant. Captain Crawford informed Eleazer that it was then impossible for him (Eleazer) to go to Canada with his family and he would assist him in coming by some more convenient opportunity and he should bear his sufferings as much as possible and he would see him paid in full.
The above information was provided in the sworn statement of Albert Williams dated 9th Day of February 1807 at Fredericksburg, Canada. This statement reveals the role of Eleazer Williams during the Revolutionary War and the reason for his son Albert’s trip to Canada.
Important note: The William Williams and son described in the Simms account of prisoners taken resided in the Town of Salisbury which includes parts of the first, second and fourth allotments of the Royal Grant and was settled by tenants of Sir William Johnson before the Revolutionary War. Most of the settlers upon the Royal Grant were Loyalists during the war, their lands were forfeited to the Government. In 1816, my Patriot Ancestor, Frederick Ritter removed from Manheim to Salisbury, on some of this land confiscated by the Government.
Source: An email from Ross Williams 3/19/2008, transcription Re: Oath of Albert Williams contained in Canada Land Petitions “W” Bundle 3, 1844-1846 (RG 1, L3, Vol. 539) Public Archives of Canada, pg. 80-O and pg. 80-P.
Thanks again, for your research.