Bug 170179 - VoiceOver does not announce a list for groups of links when list-style: none;
Summary: VoiceOver does not announce a list for groups of links when list-style: none;
Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 134187
Alias: None
Product: WebKit
Classification: Unclassified
Component: CSS (show other bugs)
Version: Safari 10
Hardware: All iOS 10
: P2 Normal
Assignee: Nobody
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2017-03-28 09:08 PDT by Izabella Cornwell
Modified: 2023-01-09 08:29 PST (History)
12 users (show)

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Description Izabella Cornwell 2017-03-28 09:08:23 PDT 
VoiceOver on Safari 9.1.3 (MacPro) and 10.2.1 (iPAD/iPhone) does not announce a list for a groups of links when list-style is set to none

}
ul.navigation {
  list-style: none; 
  padding: 0;
}
<ul class="navigation">
    <li><a href="kitchen.html">Kitchen</a></li>
    <li><a href="bedbath.html">Bed &amp; Bath</a></li>
    <li><a href="dining.html">Fine Dining</a></li>
    <li><a href="lighting.html">Lighting</a></li>
    <li><a href="storage.html">Storage</a><li>
</ul> 

url to test/verify: navigation tab menu at: https://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/after/home.html
Comment 1 James Craig 2018-05-16 02:51:09 PDT 
This was a purposeful change due to rampant "list"-itis by web developers. 

In the same way WebKit differentiates layout tables from data tables, it now differentiates layout lists from data lists. VoiceOver users always used to file bugs that there were too many "start of list" "end of list" announcements on the Web. Customers seems much happier in the 3 years since this change went in.

Basically, if you remove all default visible indication of the list, there is no indication to a sighted user or screen reader user that the content is a list. If you want to override this heuristic for accessibility, you can always add an explicit ARIA role="list".

Read more about in bug 134187 or view the test case attachment 
https://bugs.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=233587

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 134187 ***
Comment 10 Bob Prokop 2022-12-12 12:00:34 PST 
Sorry but this is an example of overreach by Safari development team. This line:

'This was a purposeful change due to rampant "list"-itis by web developers.'

-- is all opinion.

Nothing a browser manufacturer does should require obligatory use of aria. That breaks the first rule of aria.

And the argument about tables in Chrome and FF is misleading. Developers have to add a role for it to be ignored. Those browsers do not consider a table to be presentation by default.