User talk:ChevronTango

RAF Sleeve & Jacket Cuff Insignia

Gday Mate,

I am wondering if I might be able to get *.AI or *.SVG copies of your work you have done for the RAF Officer & Airman Rank Insigia.

Im currently in a large scale project redoing all the Australian Defence Force & Australian Defence Force Cadets Insignia. anychance you could help out?

My email is hawkeyebasil@bigpond.com

Sorry Mate, the RAF insignia are not vector graphics, they are raster graphics. I could probably try and update them to search but with the texturing I've employed that would be a massive Job and would likely wait until Summer at the earliest. ChevronTango (talk) 10:46, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Baseline

Hey Mate, thanks for getting back to me. Appricate it and thanks

Question about Worcester College motto

Hi, can I ask what your source is for the motto of Worcester College? Many thanks Martelette

The article itself said that worcester shared its coat of arms and motto with Bromsgrove school. ChevronTango (talk) 16:16, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I'm sorry to say that's incorrect (I've only just noticed it otherwise I would have removed it before). I have recently researched the coat of arms and have found no evidence that 'Deo Regi Vicino' was ever used by the College as a motto. In the nineteenth century 'Laudis et Honoris Causa' was used, but the College does not have a motto now. Martelette

Easy fix, the non motto'd version was uploaded at the same time and linked to from "other versions" field of the current one. ChevronTango

Great, thanks, sorry about all your work though! Martelette

No problem. It was actually kinda surprising I didn't get more wrong. If you've done some research into it could you contribute to the discussion here I'd be really curious to have a difinitive answer on the martlet issue from someone with knowledge. ChevronTango

I've now included worcesters red martlets variant. It can be access from the normal worcester file under the other versions section. ChevronTango (talk) 17:49, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

PPHs

Love having SVGs for the all the Oxford arms (although in some cases they're not necessarily better than the previous image--I'm thinking particularly of Oriel, which seemed better proportioned before). Still, it's great to have it as a vector image. For a future project it would be great to have them for the PPHs as well, especially since they don't currently have their arms on the articles. --194.98.58.121 15:12, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I'd defend Oriel by saying it matches the coat of arms of England that wiki currently displays elsewhere, which is part of its derivation, but that's neither here nor there. Heraldry is open to so much interpretation that as long as the blazon matches the shield, it counts as correct, though I did try and make them match whats in common use as best I could. The discussion about PPH's and other aspects appears here. I do apreciate feedback and comments though. I still believe a lot of these need improving but its a question of time more than anything. ChevronTango (talk) 15:28, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Honestly I think it's quite exciting to see them all being done anew by a new artist, especially for some like the university's arms where we become so used to the official 'logo' version of the arms that seeing a different rendition of them can be quite striking. I know the PPHs will take time, especially if you do Greyfriars--even the blazon for that one must be a tongue twister. (FWIW, and this is just a subjective matter of taste of course, I prefer the ones with less of a lighting effect (like Kellogg) to those like Jesus where it's more pronounced.) Anyway kudos! --194.98.58.121 09:13, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Its apreciated. It all rather came about as an accident but unfortunately I can't stop until I'm finished (one of my many bad habits). I'm going to keep going over them. The main discussion thread in the group has identified some errors I've made so the next job after doing the private halls will be to go through those and fix them. Once they are all accurate I'll go through and tone down some of my more exotic colour choices so they are more uniform. It was a poor attempt at spicing them up. Gold is supposed to look gold, and silver silver, so thats kind of what I was attempting to do but I admit, it wasn't perfect on some of them. Nevermind. As long as people appreciate them and use them I'll be happy. At least the Catz JCR will have no excuse now for using rubbish quality coats of arms on there newsletters. ChevronTango (talk) 19:09, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Back on the topic of Oriel (this is a subject close to my heart; I'm the same anonymous user as above, though my IP address has changed) the trick is in getting the proportions right to fill the red space in a way that seems symmetrical, by making the third lion smaller. Your version is pretty good, and of course respects the blazon, but I would submit this example (from one of the gates on the college) as a particularly good source of inspiration, should you wish to revisit it: http://www.craven.fr/blojsom/resources/default/oriel_jmhgate1.jpg. --81.250.211.203 18:11, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I too think that the work that you're putting into this topic is fantastic; I'm gradually putting the shields in the appropriate places at Portal:University of Oxford. Re File:Oxford University Coat Of Arms.svg, should there be "bobbles" (forgive the use of the technical term!!) on both sides of the shield? Thanks, Bencherlite (talk) 11:42, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The shield's style in heraldry in unimportant. We frequently see a stylized shield used for the university but its the decoration on the shield that is the important bit. I'll happily make another version with a different shield, I was just using the template from the Coats Of Arms. Since The SVG on the main university page is already very good there's little point in adopting the design I've made. ChevronTango (talk) 11:52, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I see, I was misled by File:OUCOAcolourCopyrightKaihsuTai.png, which does have thingymajigs on both sides of the book [I should have said "book" to make myself clearer], whereas File:Oxford University.svg does not. The advantage of your shield over File:Oxford University.svg, of course, is that the existing .svg can only be used on the University of Oxford page with a fair use rationale, whereas your shield is freely usable elsewhere. Carry on, as you were, etc... Bencherlite (talk) 12:03, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The "thingymajigs" are seals on the book; the standard blazon of the Arms of the University of Oxford is "Azure, upon a book open proper, leathered gules, garnished or, having on the dexter side seven seals of the last, the words DOMINVS ILLVMINATIO MEA; all between three open crowns, two and one, or" which specifies seals on the left side as viewed. The most common emblazon has large seals on the left and small seals on the right (essentially clasps and things they clasp onto) but techincally ChevronTango is completely correct. Jonathan Jones.

Colleges of the University of Oxford

I have started creating a table at Colleges of the University of Oxford which seems like a good place to show off the new images. Comments welcome. I am doing emblazons, blazons, scarfs and blade colours (though these are quite erratic at the moment); I will add some brief notes on strange blazons such as Lincoln and Worcester at some point. Jonathan Jones.

Blade colours may well be my next project but I'm acutely aware that I have exams fast approaching. It may be the summer before I can do them completely. ChevronTango (talk) 21:36, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I certainly wouldn't wabt to distract you from Prelims! Come the summer you can find a useful table at OURCS [1]. Jonathan Jones

ChevronTango, can you contact me at it-services@st-hughs.ox.ac.uk as I need to discuss your replacement St Hugh's College crest. The crest uploaded by myself (now due for deletion) was part of a branding exercise by the College which extends to all media, both printed and online.

Mistakes and Edits

So I know that one or two mistakes have crept in when I wasn't looking. I've just got round to correcting Magdalen, though the slipping should be more pronounced and Or I believe, so I may have to tweak it again. Brasenose is also on the todo list to corrected the tombstone that Our Lady should be sitting on. Are there any more I've missed or edits that would imrpove the look of them? ChevronTango (talk) 21:51, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I've also decided at some point to redo the estoiles found on alot of the coats of arms. They just look a bit cheap at the moment. ChevronTango (talk) 00:37, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I have just corrected all the blazons according to the forms in the calendar and there are a couple of minor errors, but I need to sort out first which are errors in your drawings (e.g. Queens) and which are incorrect blazons (e.g. Lincoln and Worcester). Jonathan Jones

The main errors seem to be (in decreasing order of severity)

• University: there should be five martlets
• Teddy Hall: the cross should by patonce not flory
• Brasenose: the tombstone
• Magdalen: you have it slipped vert seeded or instead or slipped and seeded or
• Queens is complicated: I'm trying to find out how the mullet is normally emblazoned, but your current form seems closer to actual practice than the official blazon

Jonathan Jones

Univ and teddy hall now are correct as is magdalen. Discussion on Teddy Hall is here following a revert that removed the new coat of arms in favour of the articles original version. Good luck finding any decent referance images of queen's coat of arms online. The best I found was barely a dozen pixels wide, not including the previous version on wiki which was clearly drawn on paint. ChevronTango (talk) 23:13, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I've also just had a quick search and found this which whilst differing, matches what we have for blackfriars, blazon and all. I apreciate the one I've made differs slightly from this but is within the standards of the blazon and matches the few referance images I've found on it so I'm happy to call the blazon official and leave the image as is. ChevronTango (talk) 23:34, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks; I have updated Blackfriars (I see that inverted pile isn't entire as I had thought). I pass by various bits of Queens quite often so will take a look at anything I can find. 82.24.254.248 07:16, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't have said Nuffield was unique in discribing its crest. I can find blazons for St Cross and Wolfson which cover the crest and Christ Church is more often than not depicted with a Galero Gules ensigning as a crest. Since these crests are very complicated to draw I haven't done so up to now, so we should reach a consensus on what to do with the ones that have crests. do we leave them as is and mention the crest or do we just leave out the crest all together. ChevronTango (talk) 17:44, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I have clarified that Nuffield is unique in describing its crest in the University Calendar. I would favour keeping crests off the Colleges of the University of Oxford page, though there might be an argument for individual crests on individual college pages. The issue of mottoes is also debatable, and we need some sources if we are going to include them.

I have now found four separate images of the Queens arms: two show the mullet completely wrong but are obviously of poor quality, while the version on the great gate of the Bodleian has no mullet at all. But the version on the shields on the wall at the Cardo building is exactly as blazoned (a five pointed star with a hole in the middle). Jonathan Jones

I agree, crests are a headache that we shouldn't really go into at this stage. Well done on the research for Queen's btw. I have this vision that one day you and I will meet in the street somewhere and know who the others is purely by which crests on the buildings they are looking at. Queen's is now updated. Whilst I can't remember the source, the blazon I found and used on my user page has the mullet as six points and unpierced which is why I drew it as such. ChevronTango (talk) 19:11, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I've been very impressed with everything you have done, and I hope nothing I have said has come over as criticism - I have simply assumed that you wanted to get everything "right". The blazons of the colleges are a mess, so thanks for agreeing to take the Calendar as definitive, which simplifies things greatly.

I shall keep an eye out as I wander the streets for anyone else staring fixedly at shields and muttering blazons under their breath. It's been nice to get back to heraldry for the first time in years, and brilliant to have such as skilled co-worker. On which note I should probably leave you to get on with prelims! Regards, Jonathan

I don't just do shields

I've added the Coat of Arms as a circlet now. I just wanted to see if I could, and to get it nice was a bit fiddly I grant you. Continue using the arms by all means, I don't expect this one to get used. ChevronTango (talk) 17:54, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

St Edmund Hall Logo

Hi,

I'm the Comms Officer at St Edmund Hall. We are rolling out a new logo for the College, and I updated our Wikipedia page a few weeks ago, replacing your version with our updated one. I notice that you have reverted the graphic to your version.

While I appreciate your time and effort spent in producing the crest, could I ask that our version remains when I reupload it?

Many thanks

Savilleseh (talk) 14:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

The goal of Wikipedia is to use free content wherever possible. Since the description of the arms is non-copyrightable, then anyone can follow that description to make a free version of the arms. Meanwhile, the version released by the College's communication department is non-free. If the College wished to release their version under a free license then it would be a potentially suitable alternative (although the image quality leaves a little to be desired compared to the scalable vector version that ChevronTango has created). 82.20.154.213 09:11, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Blazon

Hello there. I have just noticed your work on the arms of the University of Oxford and its colleges, and it is quite impressive. I am rather curious about the blazons on your user page, though: do you have sources for them or have you written them yourself? The one for University College gives four martlets rather than five (and it appears the arms used to have the same error), and the one for Wolfson College seems unnecessarily complex, especially with the confusing "and" between the roses and pears. "Per pale gules and or on a chevron between three roses counterchanged barbed and seeded proper two pears again countercharged" would be much clearer—in my humble opinion of course. Waltham, The Duke of 11:24, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Lincoln Arms

Dear Chevron Tango,

I would like permission to use your graphic of the Lincoln College arms in my thesis but without citing you, the only reason being that it would look a bit weird to have a lone citation for this among all the academic ones...

Of course, I would be externally grateful...:)

Anscombe (talk) 10:32, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Both the wikipedian and DeviantArt versions I've uploaded are lisecensed under creative commons for comercial not attributive use. Put simply you don't need to ask permission, they are free to use by anyone for any purpose. Thankyou for asking however, I do apreciate it. ChevronTango (talk) 12:58, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

St John's College blazon

Hello,

Your graphic at the college's entry is given with the blazon "Gules, on a bordure sable, eight estoiles or, on a canton ermine, a lion rampant of the second, in chief an annulet of the third". The same arms are blazoned in the article on Colleges of the University of Oxford with "...on the fess point an annulet of the third". When I first encountered this coat of arms, it was blazoned with the annulet on the honour point, a fact I noted particularly at the time because I had to look up 'honour point' in a dictionary of heraldry. Do you have any source for your blazon? The annulet does generally appear to be situated on the honour point, not the fess point (except in a few isolated renditions such as the fairly crude carved one on the Bodleian Library gate, which has sometimes also had it incorrectly painted white); a position in chief would potentially conflict with the bordure (though this is the version that the Heraldry Society website gives). Myopic Bookworm (talk) 22:06, 8 April 2013 (UTC) 22:01, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

The honest answer is I cannot remember where my source is. Several others who worked on the project used the Colleges Calendars for reference so it may have come from there, if not from somewhere on the internet. As I don't like not knowing for definite I've emailed the College of Arm's, particularly as they've always been helpful in the past, to see if, when they have a free moment, they could shed some light on the matter. Other than that I can't help much. It might be worth speaking to St John's themselves or doing some research in any of the college libraries, though I wouldn't know where to even start looking if you were to try. ChevronTango (talk) 10:11, 19 April 2013 (UTC)