Commons:Deletion requests/File:RomainGary-JeanSebarg-Italie-1961.jpg

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File:RomainGary-JeanSebarg-Italie-1961.jpg

• File:Romain Gary (cropped).jpg

Photo taken American photographer Sam Shaw (1912-1999), the same that took the iconic Marylin Monroe photos [1]. That the image was taken in Italy doesn't make Italy the country of origin. To assert it is in the public domain we need the first publication. Günther Frager (talk) 18:50, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

•  Keep. The origin of the photographer working for an italian agency is not relevant. This photography has been taken in Italy, before 1976. The criteria are fully matching with PD-Italy. Tisourcier (talk) 20:08, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Tisourcier: where did you get he worked for an Italian agency? The source is the "Shaw Family Archives", clearly not an Italian press agency. Moreover, the heirs of Sam Shaw registered several portraits of Romain Gary taken during the 1960s in the US copyright Office [2][3][4][5]. Günther Frager (talk) 21:07, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

  During the 1960's, Sam Shaw worked for several european agencies or companies as such as for Carrese (Keystone Italy / Publifoto), Gamma Italy, Magnum Italy... Some eg :

  https://www.germannauktionen.ch/en/items/14781-sam-shaw

  https://www.germannauktionen.ch/de/items/16211-sam-shaw

  Morevoer, Getty is known as often publishing copyfraud or wrong copyright credits. Eg, this photography wich has been taken by a French photographer for a French newspaper, and wich is PD-France :

  https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d%27actualit%C3%A9/meeting-of-the-dada-group-in-paris-louis-aragon-photo-dactualit%C3%A9/542359729

  "Shaw Family archives" accounts for the archives collected by family but can't replace the authorship of agencies collective work in Italy. Again, the origin of the photographer is not relevant according to PD-Italy. Tisourcier (talk) 15:27, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

  • You didn't provide any evidence that this particular photo was made for an Italian press agency. A simple search shows that in 1961 alone he took photos in the US, France, Italy, Ireland, the UK, etc. On the same year he even was the producer and the cinematographer of the filem en:W:Paris Blues. Taking a picture in Italy doesn't make Italy the country of origin.
  • If the content of the links you provided are to be trusted, the photos were taken during the filming of the American Movie en:W:The Cardinal by the Autrian-American director Otto Preminger in 1963. The links also states that the copyright owner is "Gamma Productions Inc.". That is the company that produced the movie [6] and has nothing to do with the French photo agency. And again it doesn't prove anything regarding the file under DR.
  • I also provided 4 links of copyright records of photos of Romain Gary taken by Sam Shaw between 1960 and 1962. If the US Copyright Office accepted these photos, then they are under copyright in the US. As the picture in this DR depicts Romain Gary and was taken by Sam Shaw during the same period, following COM:PCP we cannot keep it.
  • The first sentence of {{PD-Italy}} is quite clear The country of origin of this photograph is Italy.. The link goes to the Berne Convention definition: the member state where the work was first published. The rationale was discussed here: Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2018/02#PD-Italy_wording. Moreover, the template also links Template:PD-Italy/US to verify when a photo created prior to 1976 is in the US public domain. It is clearly stated that the first publication in Italy is a must. Günther Frager (talk) 23:09, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

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Deleted: no evidence the photo was first published outside of the United States. --Bastique ^{☎ let's talk!} 23:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)