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* <nowiki>[[Jet engine#Nozzles|Nozzle]]</nowiki> The anchor (Nozzles) [[Special:Diff/264871106|has been deleted]]. <!-- {"title":"Nozzles","appear":{"revid":23199628,"parentid":23187080,"timestamp":"2005-09-14T03:09:22Z","removed_section_titles":["Air intake design","SR 71 Ram jet","Heat exchanger","Nozzle"],"added_section_titles":["Air intakes","Heat exchangers","Nozzles"]},"disappear":{"revid":264871106,"parentid":264870918,"timestamp":"2009-01-18T14:27:27Z","removed_section_titles":["Air intakes","Subsonic inlets","Supersonic inlets","Compressors","Combustors","Turbines","Afterburners (reheat)","Nozzles","Thrust reversers","Cooling systems"],"added_section_titles":[]}} -->
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: also, before someone gets an itch to reedit su-35 back, the su-35 STARTED with 2D vectoring nozzles each pointed slightly outwards on the yaw axis, with each one controlled independently and thrust differential, allowing a limited 3D vectoring effect when they were pointed in different directions with different thrust levels; but these engines have been replaced with full-orbital vectoring engines. The mig-29OVT has always had full 3D.[[Special:Contributions/75.170.64.63|75.170.64.63]] ([[User talk:75.170.64.63|talk]]) 20:34, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 
If you go to wikipedia's website for "aircraft pricipal axes" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_principal_axes<ref>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_principal_axe]</ref>, it will give you a good idea of the difference between 2D and 3D thrust vectoring (TV). I think there is a mistake on this site, 2D TV from my understanding should refer to aircrafts that can move along two of the three axes (pitch, roll, yaw). For example, aircrafts that have two engines that can go up and down, if both engines point in the same direction, the aircraft will "rotate" along the pitch axis. If the engines move in opposite directions (one points up, the other points down), the aircraft will "roll" along the roll axis, hence the 2D naming. Twin engines that can also move "sideways" will enable the aircraft to rotate along the yaw axis. The problem I have is that the F-16 VISTA and Rockwell X-31 being single engined aircraft, no matter how their respective engines move, the aircraft will only rotate along 2 axis (if you only use the engines, i.e. without the help of ailerons, they will be able to move along the pitch and yaw axes, but cannot rotate along the roll axis), so in my humble opinion these two aircrafts should still be considered as 2D TV aircrafts (pitch and yaw axis) <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hschantang|Hschantang]] ([[User talk:Hschantang|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hschantang|contribs]]) 01:02, 12 January 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
Here is a reference that lends additional support to my statement: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/awst/2012/03/19/AW_03_19_2012_p64-434177.xml&headline=Fighters,%20Missiles%20For%20Countering%20Stealth&next=0<ref>http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/awst/2012/03/19/AW_03_19_2012_p64-434177.xml&headline=Fighters,%20Missiles%20For%20Countering%20Stealth&next=10</ref> Please refer to the 7th paragraph of the article.--[[User:Hschantang|Hschantang]] ([[User talk:Hschantang|talk]]) 00:01, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 
 
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[[User:KorgBoy|KorgBoy]] ([[User talk:KorgBoy|talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 02:10, 21 March 2009 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
{{reflist-talk}}
 
== Rockets ==
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[[User:Victory in Germany|Victory in Germany]] ([[User talk:Victory in Germany|talk]]) 21:22, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 
== Nozzles section ==
 
The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust_vectoring#Nozzles "Nozzles" section] is messy, unsourced, devoid of any link (wiki or otherwise) and unharmonious in this page - that level of detail would have a better home in the [[Vectoring_nozzles| Vectoring nozzles]] page. What do you think ? --[[User:Liotier|Jean-Marc Liotier]] ([[User talk:Liotier|talk]]) 11:51, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 
:Yes, I agree the section is completely unsourced and hard to follow as it is currently written. It goes into a lot of detail that belongs in the other article. [[User:MarcusMaximus|MarcusMaximus]] ([[User talk:MarcusMaximus|talk]]) 23:03, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 
::Whether it stays here or is moved it can be improved. I don't think it needs sources from a verifiability POV because it is not going to be challenged as it is standard propulsion engineering. I think it needs some sources to give the inquisitive reader places to go to learn in a more interesting context. As a first step in translating/enhancing this section I have selected one definition, which, as it stands, doesn't match the painful precision typical in this section. I have reworded it and added a good cite to test the water.[[User:Pieter1963|Pieter1963]] ([[User talk:Pieter1963|talk]]) 02:01, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 
:::<s>It is nothing to do with thrust vectoring, it is a quite different aspect of nozzle technology. It must surely already be treated better in the relevant article/s. IMHO it should just be deleted. &mdash; Cheers, [[User:Steelpillow|Steelpillow]] ([[User Talk:Steelpillow|Talk]]) 09:48, 23 January 2015 (UTC)</s> Not sure what I read, but it must have been something else, my apologies for writing nonsense. Yes, there is plenty here that is relevant but needs intensive cleanup. &mdash; Cheers, [[User:Steelpillow|Steelpillow]] ([[User Talk:Steelpillow|Talk]]) 17:30, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 
::::"must surely already be treated better in the relevant article/s" I think the content of this section is unique (although over-the-top for most)and is not addressed in any other article. If we delete it we deny the information to someone out there. The statements are indisputable although not of any interest to most people.
::::"nothing to do with thrust vectoring, it is a quite different aspect of nozzle technology" Even if that were the case (note, however, references to TVFC, vectoring angles, methods of nozzle control and thrust vectoring) I don't think it would matter. I don't think we should underestimate the wikipedia customer, or inquisitive reader. He can make that judgement for himself and is also able and willing to bypass stuff that is too simple, too difficult or already known. Also, he doesn't mind whether the stuff is in "vectored thrust", "vectoring nozzles", "propelling nozzles" as long as they are linked.
 
::::What is more important, perhaps even imperative, is to rid articles of statements that are misleading/incorrect/ambiguous/badly written. I think that's what we owe to the reader. After all they are expecting solid stuff and won't quibble about whether it's in a particular article. They will be only too pleased to find it.[[User:Pieter1963|Pieter1963]] ([[User talk:Pieter1963|talk]]) 15:01, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 
::::It's one of the core parts of thrust vectoring; I think it should be properly formatted and referenced, and COPIED to the main article and further expanded there. Without it, both articles are clearly incomplete; it's an article on thrust vectoring that doesn't cover... thrust vectoring.[[User:GliderMaven|GliderMaven]] ([[User talk:GliderMaven|talk]]) 15:51, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 
:::At present the article on [[vectoring nozzles]] is so minimal that I don't see any point in maintaining separate articles. I'd suggest that any significant content there should be moved into the section here and the page made a redirect - unless and until the section grows unwieldly. &mdash; Cheers, [[User:Steelpillow|Steelpillow]] ([[User Talk:Steelpillow|Talk]]) 17:30, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 
::"is so minimal" agreed. The 2 photos are already in vectored thrust. The Raptor and Su-30 are already covered there. That only leaves a little bit on the Harrier to transfer. So make it a redirect with no content.[[User:Pieter1963|Pieter1963]] ([[User talk:Pieter1963|talk]]) 23:07, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 
:Does anyone have any comments on the current state of this section? Thanks.[[User:Pieter1963|Pieter1963]] ([[User talk:Pieter1963|talk]]) 22:08, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 
== Add SU-57/T-50 to the 3d thrust vectoring section? ==
 
I was thinking about adding the SU-57 to the list of aircraft capable of 3d thrust vectoring, as it uses the same engines as the SU-35 models (AL-41F1 or -F1S) as interim engines for the izdeliye 30. Both engines are capable of TV and I was wondering if it would be a valid addition to the article.
([[Special:Contributions/12.187.245.16|12.187.245.16]] ([[User talk:12.187.245.16|talk]]) 15:00, 18 December 2018 (UTC)) (Note that i don't have an account yet and will not be able to sign properly, sorry!)
* No. All Sukhois' family had 2D TVC--[[User:XaHyMaH|XaHyMaH]] ([[User talk:XaHyMaH|talk]]) 18:03, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 
== Strange double standard for thrust vectoring ==
 
The Su-30MKI and Su-30MKM use Saturn AL-31FP 3D vector thrust engines (or to clarify, up and down with a 15 degree pitch from vertical ).
 
The Su-35 uses the Saturn AL-41F1S, which has the same limitations in terms of thrust vectoring.
The J-10 also uses the Saturn AL-31FN, which (in this example, I'm not 100%) seems to have similar limitations.
 
Why are the latter 2 represented as 3D vector thrust, and the others as 2D vector thrust? It's a strange double standard. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sterling Saini|Sterling Saini]] ([[User talk:Sterling Saini#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sterling Saini|contribs]]) 23:07, 23 September 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
* They all in fact has same 2D TVC nozzle. But Sukhoi's FBW control system allows to imitate 3D TVC. --[[User:XaHyMaH|XaHyMaH]] ([[User talk:XaHyMaH|talk]]) 18:08, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 
== does it work on prop planes???? ==
 
does tvc work on a turbo prop plane [[User:Mundaepog5|Mundaepog5]] ([[User talk:Mundaepog5|talk]]) 18:16, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
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