Content deleted Content added
→Requested move 4 May 2016: closing as not moved |
m Maintain {{WPBS}}: 1 WikiProject template. Create {{WPBS}}. Tag: |
||
| (14 intermediate revisions by 8 users not shown) | |||
Line 1:
{{WikiProject banner shell|
{{WikiProject Disambiguation}}
}}
{{MadonnaRMArchive}}
Line 34 ⟶ 36:
== Hmmm... ==
Sorry to bring this up all over again, but I tried to remove links to this page, and my job was done very quickly. About 20 were namespace links, while the remaining 200 or so were from WP or user pages which think that [[Madonna]] goes [[Madonna (entertainer)|here]]. I'd propose reviving [[Madonna (disambiguation)]], and leading this straight to Madge's page... but I'm scared of getting yelled at... <small>— [[User:Riana_dzasta|riana_dzasta]] • [[User_talk:Riana_dzasta|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Riana_dzasta|c]] •
:I agree, for what it's worth. Ms Ciccone's article should be here, with a dab template at the top. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 22:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Line 76 ⟶ 78:
== Warring edits, solution page ==
I have changed the page to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Madonna&oldid=155916292 this version], which seems most neutral. Any objections? • [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|<span style="font-variant:small-caps
: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Madonna&diff=155918641&oldid=155918026 Added the blurb that anon editor wanted]. That factual statement with the ordering there now should be fine. Thoughts? • [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|<span style="font-variant:small-caps
== Most successful entertainer ==
This is a disambiguation page. The merits of Madonna should be pointed out at her own page. A disamiguation page is only to disamiguate, to give the reader a choice what article to look for. The information on a disambiguation page should be kept at a minimum. There is only one entertainer with the name Madonna, so the information that she is the best is superfluous. There is a single, anonymous editor that wanted Madonnas merits mentioned here. Under these circumstances, I do not think it is wise to look for a compromise just to avoid an edit war. [[User:AndreasJS|<span style="color:white;background:blue;"> Andreas </span>]] <sup><
*Agreed. I'm also not sure what the point of "known as" re the other Madonna is. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] 00:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Line 128 ⟶ 130:
== Consensus agreed upon, this will not direct to Madonna the singer==
Does everyone agree the page ought to stay at a version such [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Madonna&oldid=158206626 as this?] If you disagree, why? • [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|<span style="font-variant:small-caps
*'''Yes''' Count the people reverting the edit warring of a single editor. As mentioned above, there must be over fifty other articles, like those in [[:Category:Raphael Madonnas]] that really should be here too. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] 15:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
* Of course this should stay a disambiguation page. I thought that had been settled some time ago. -- [[User:Infrogmation|Infrogmation]] 17:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
::Just wished to clarify, in case that IP user came back. As there is consensus this would stay a disambig page. • [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|<span style="font-variant:small-caps
*'''Agree''' - Some users are pushing a huge POV ("most successful and best woman in the world", "Madonna is the best"), of which a redirect is one of them. Historically speaking, the original Madonna is hugely more significant, so I expect a stronger argument could be made to redirect it there and we'd have a colossal POV edit war on our hands as to where it should go. Having 'Madonna' as a disambiguation page is an appropriate and sensible compromise. [[User:Benea|Benea]] 11:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
::It has been quiet for some time now, so hopefully they got bored. • [[User talk:Lawrence Cohen|<span style="font-variant:small-caps
==Requested move==
Line 187 ⟶ 189:
==Madonna (entertainer)==
Once again, there is a discussion at [[Talk:Madonna (entertainer)#Requested_move_September_2013|Talk:Madonna (entertainer)]] that seems to affect this page. [[User:Tbhotch|<
=="Madonna"==
Line 204 ⟶ 206:
*Has anything changed since the umpteem previous discussions? [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 13:58, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Long-term significance is one facet of a primary topic, but I don't believe that [[Mary (mother of Jesus)]] is "highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." The entertainer has been successful for a very long time, so I doubt recentism is too much of an issue. [[User:Nohomersryan|Nohomersryan]] ([[User talk:Nohomersryan|talk]]) 15:45, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I frequently fix incoming links to this page, and they almost always refer to the singer. [[User:BD2412|<
*'''Oppose'''. This has happened with the move proposal at least ten times before and whether there will be no [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]] for the singer, period. End of discussion. [[User:ApprenticeFan|<
*'''Oppose''' I'm afraid many people would regard the singer nowadays as the primary meaning. [[User:PatGallacher|PatGallacher]] ([[User talk:PatGallacher|talk]]) 10:00, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' By my count, there are six previous debates which largely revolve around whether the singer, the mother of Jesus, or the art form are the primary topic for "Madonna". In [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Madonna_(entertainer)/Archive_17#Requested_move_8 the most recent one], the consensus seemed to be that while the religious meanings of Madonna currently have the most long-term significance, the entertainer was the primary topic with respect to usage. As the two criteria conflict, and no new arguments seem to have been put forward, we should keep the status quo here. [[User:Caeciliusinhorto|Caeciliusinhorto]] ([[User talk:Caeciliusinhorto|talk]]) 11:09, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Line 211 ⟶ 213:
*'''Oppose'''. Concur with the above points. In addition, looking at the [[https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/#project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-90&pages=Madonna|Mary_(mother_of_Jesus)|Madonna_(entertainer)| page view analysis]] suggests that one of them had to be made the primary topic, (don't do this!) [[Madonna (entertainer)]] should be it (both are notable enough that neither should be the primary topic) [[User:Devinthepeng|Devinthepeng]] ([[User talk:Devinthepeng|talk]]) 02:31, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
----
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->
==Move discussion in progress==
There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Madonna (entertainer)#Requested move|Talk:Madonna (entertainer)]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Madonna (entertainer) crosspost --> [[User:Shhhhwwww!!|Shhhhwwww!!]] ([[User talk:Shhhhwwww!!|talk]]) 09:16, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
==Move discussion in progress==
There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Madonna (art)#Requested move|Talk:Madonna (art)]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Madonna (art) crosspost --> [[User:Shhhhwwww!!|Shhhhwwww!!]] ([[User talk:Shhhhwwww!!|talk]]) 11:21, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
== [[Madonna_(entertainer)#Discography]] ==
{{yo|SmokeyJoe}} No, that's really not how it works. Like many parts of Wikipedia, disambiguation pages involve a steep learning curve. Let's take a look at [[MOS:DAB]]: {{tq|Disambiguation pages ("dab pages") are designed to help a reader find Wikipedia articles on different topics that could be referenced by the same search term, as described in the Disambiguation guideline.}} It's not the role of dab pages to help readers get to a subtopic of a topic of that name. The page links to [[Madonna (entertainer)]] and [[Madonna (Madonna album)]], and that's enough. Readers looking for a list of her albums can click on the link to the article about the singer, and look at the section that contains the list. Take a look at other similar dab pages, none of them contain similar links. [[Queen]] does not contain a link to [[Queen (band)#Discography]] (or [[Queen discography]] for that matter), [[Eagles (disambiguation)]] does not contain a link to [[Eagles (band)#Discography]], [[Prince (disambiguation)]] does not contain a link to [[Prince (musician)#Discography]]. If you think the [[Madonna]] page should be any different, or disambiguation pages should include links to artist discographies, you are welcome to start an RFC to discuss the matter. [[User:Feminist|<span style="color:Black">f</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Feminist|e]][[User talk:Feminist|minist]] 13:32, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
* Hi [[User:Feminist]]. I'd prefer to have this discussion after the close of [[Talk:Madonna_(Madonna_album)#Requested_move_1_December_2017]], but that is taking so long I fear I may forget. I disagree with your "The page links to [[Madonna (entertainer)]] and [[Madonna (Madonna album)]], and that's enough" because one of the meanings of "Madonna", after the virgin, after the entertainer, is the entertainer's music. When someone says "I'm listening to Madonna", they will not mean they are listing to Madonna interviews. Even it it is said "doing Madonna this weekend", there is no chance that a weekend watching Madonna films is planned, they are planning on indulging in [[Madonna albums discography]]. I feel the problem is exacerbated by someone wanting, or searching using "Madonna albums" seeing [[Madonna (album)]], jumping on that hit, and being taken to [[Madonna#Music]], from where it is not obvious where to go to find her music. The reader has been taken to the wrong subtopic. I can think think of a few solutions, all would seem to be against some rule. --[[User:SmokeyJoe|SmokeyJoe]] ([[User talk:SmokeyJoe|talk]]) 01:50, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
: Alternative places for fixing this little problem ''might'' be in the ledes of both [[Madonna (Madonna album)]] and [[Madonna (entertainer)]], which do not have easy to find links to either [[Madonna_(entertainer)#Discography]] or [[Madonna albums discography]]. --[[User:SmokeyJoe|SmokeyJoe]] ([[User talk:SmokeyJoe|talk]]) 01:55, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
== Move discussion in progress ==
There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Madonna (entertainer)#Requested move 23 July 2020 |Talk:Madonna (entertainer)]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Madonna (entertainer) crosspost --> —[[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] 13:15, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
== Move discussion in progress ==
There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Madonna#Requested move 1 June 2024|Talk:Madonna]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Madonna crosspost --> [[User:Dawid2009|Dawid2009]] ([[User talk:Dawid2009|talk]]) 21:35, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
| |||