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{{Talk header|hide_find_sources=yes}}
{{Controversial}}
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== Tracking lead size ==
Word counts by paragraph and total.
{{hidden
| headerstyle = text-align:left; font-weight:normal;
| header = [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=1255636208 {{0}}5 Nov 2024] — '''614''' = 29 + 101 + 106 + 156 + 101 + 121
| content = [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=1257045174 12 Nov 2024] — '''657''' = 46 + 101 + 116 + 175 + 176 + 43
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=1258463601 19 Nov 2024] — '''418''' = 62 + 76 + 153 + 127
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=1259774321 26 Nov 2024] — '''406''' = 56 + 70 + 138 + 142
}}
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=
== Tracking article size ==
[[WP:RPS|Readable prose]] size in words –
{{hidden
| headerstyle = text-align:left; font-weight:normal;
| header = [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=1255636208 {{0}}5 Nov 2024] — 15,818 – 421,592 – 103
| content = [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=1257045174 12 Nov 2024] — 15,883 – 427,790 – {{0}}46
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=
}}
▲[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=1258463601 19 Nov 2024] — 15,708 – {{0}}12
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&oldid=
== Proposal: Age and health concerns regarding Trump <span class="anchor" id="Request for consensus: Proposal: Age and health concerns regarding Trump"></span> ==
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*::Uninvolved close sounds prudent. Cheers. [[User:Darknipples|DN]] ([[User talk:Darknipples|talk]]) 10:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
*:I was confusing "close with consensus assessment" with "close to get stuff off the page per consensus 13". Sorry Bob. ―[[User:Mandruss|<span style="color:#775C57;">'''''Mandruss'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Mandruss|<span style="color:#888;">☎</span>]] 18:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
*'''No''', go on about Trump not living up to his promises to release his health info, but jeez, just don't add speculation. Let's do a litmus test: if I speculated about @[[User:Example]] having [[Obsessive-compulsive disorder]] on Wikipedia, my ass would get a harsh warning, if not a [[WP:BLOCK|block]], so apply that thinking to Trumpty-Dumpty. It's a person, yes, and it's bad to speculate like that about any person. <small>I wonder what Trump thinks about all this Wikipedia obsession about him...</small> <span style="background: cornsilk; padding: 3px;border:.5px solid salmon;">[[User:BarntToust|<span style="color:#7b68ee;">Barnt</span>]][[User talk:BarntToust|<span style="color:#483d8b;">Toust</span>]]</span> 14:01, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
{{sources-talk}}
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:::I agree with Goszei, and I especially find it relevant to highlight his first political campaign, which was the most notable event of his life and was commented and analyzed by countless sources. @[[User:Goszei|Goszei]] since not many are answering this topic should we move forward with a Rfc? [[User:Cinemaandpolitics|Cinemaandpolitics]] ([[User talk:Cinemaandpolitics|talk]]) 14:53, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I support the creation of an RfC. — [[User:Goszei|Goszei]] ([[User_talk:Goszei|talk]]) 04:52, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
:Just for starters, you may have noticed that the lead doesn't give ''any'' sources. Related citations are in the supporting body content. ―[[User:Mandruss|<span style="color:#775C57;">'''''Mandruss'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Mandruss|<span style="color:#888;">☎</span>]] 09:25, 23 November 2024 (UTC)▼
::This being said there is an issue in misogyny being in wikivoice while every other prejudice/label is attributed. [[User:Rollinginhisgrave|Rollinginhisgrave]] ([[User talk:Rollinginhisgrave|talk]]) 20:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)▼
== "In 2015 he launched a a presidential campaign" in the lead ==
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:::::::::::Yes, I believe that was the source I saw pop up as a review article when I did more searching this morning. I can't check right now as I am not at my computer. I likely won't be able to work on this further until later this week as I have a full-time job, (un)fortunately. [[User:BootsED|BootsED]] ([[User talk:BootsED|talk]]) 14:46, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::Just an update, I spent a few hours this weekend and found some more good more review articles on this topic. I also found some other good review articles and sources that can be used on this page to remove some lower-quality sources we have now. I will hopefully be able to update the page sometime later this week. [[User:BootsED|BootsED]] ([[User talk:BootsED|talk]]) 18:36, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
== Proposed rewrite of lede ==
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::::::::If "several international agreements" is misleading, then you are accepting that any readers who don't click the footnote (most) will be misled.
::::::::{{u|Cinemaandpolitics}} could you self-revert? Most of the editors participating here have voiced opposition to the way footnotes are being used in the lede here, including everyone who came in from outside (I'm not sure if Bruce came from the link), so your restoration appears to be against consensus. [[User:Rollinginhisgrave|Rollinginhisgrave]] ([[User talk:Rollinginhisgrave|talk]]) 06:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::I didn't say it was misleading without the footnote, just vague and worth a few words more explanation in a way I think that a footnote does well. There are in fact valid use cases for explanatory footnotes in leads, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. All that said, my support for this particular case is pretty mild. — [[User:Goszei|Goszei]] ([[User_talk:Goszei|talk]]) 06:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Can't you guys just say what's important for the reader to know? I.e., {{tq|...withdrew the U.S. from international agreements on climate, trade, and the nuclear program of Iran.}} {{u|Cinemaandpolitics}}, you're going against consensus. Why is this so hard? -[[User:SusanLesch|SusanLesch]] ([[User talk:SusanLesch|talk]]) 16:54, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
▲:
::::::::::Apologies {{U|Goszei}}, I read "he didn't withdraw from them purely because they were international" as saying the text was implying that, inaccurately. ~~ [[User:Rollinginhisgrave|Rollinginhisgrave]] ([[User talk:Rollinginhisgrave|talk]]) 00:24, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
== Childhood ==
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:*Content being longstanding means very little on Wikipedia. The relevant policy here is [[WP:EDITCONSENSUS]], which makes it clear that any change to content, whether the content is long-standing or not has presumed consensus: "Wikipedia consensus usually occurs implicitly. An edit has presumed consensus until it is disputed or reverted. Should another editor revise that edit, the new edit will have presumed consensus until it meets with disagreement. In this way, the encyclopedia gradually improves over time."
:[[User:Rollinginhisgrave|Rollinginhisgrave]] ([[User talk:Rollinginhisgrave|talk]]) 00:42, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Space4Time3Continuum2x}} I find your comments kinda backwards. D'Antonio says {{tq|"Trump's record was not especially remarkable. Roughly 10 million men in his age group were not drafted due to deferments and special status."}} What we've got now covers that he did not serve. Military service isn't an eligibility requirement to be president. On the other hand, not every child is a difficult one and I think it is remarkable that we now have two books supporting his behavioral problems as a youth. -[[User:SusanLesch|SusanLesch]] ([[User talk:SusanLesch|talk]]) 14:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
{{reftalk}}
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So far there are 6 disambiguation pages (assuming I'm not missing something), with at least 3-4 more to come when he appoints judges, ambassadors, etc. Each of these dabs only disambiguate 2 entries (first term/second term). It is my suggestion that these disambiguation pages be merged together into a single [[List of articles on presidencies of Donald Trump]], so that it is easier for visitors to navigate instead of at least 10-12 separate dab pages with 2 entries each. What is your opinion? <span class="nowrap">—'''[[User:CX Zoom|CX Zoom]]'''[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">([[User talk:CX Zoom|let's talk]] • {[[Special:Contributions/CX Zoom|C]]•[[User:CX Zoom/X|X]]})</sup> 23:34, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
* The dabs so far are: [[Presidency of Donald Trump]], [[Cabinet of Donald Trump]], [[First 100 days of the Donald Trump presidency]], [[Inauguration of Donald Trump]], [[Political appointments by Donald Trump]], [[Presidential transition of Donald Trump]] <span class="nowrap">—'''[[User:CX Zoom|CX Zoom]]'''[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">([[User talk:CX Zoom|let's talk]] • {[[Special:Contributions/CX Zoom|C]]•[[User:CX Zoom/X|X]]})</sup> 23:34, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
▲::
== Proposed split: Political policies of Donald Trump ==
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:Definitely include President Biden being the first President in US history to pardon a family member (his son was pardoned all the way back to his beginnings at Burisma, 2011) charged with multiple felonies and millions of dollars in tax evasion. That could show a balance between the DOJ Already being politically weaponized or the DOJ Will be politically weaponized under the incoming president. This adds a lot to Trump's political reasoning on certain federal departments' motives. A look into the beast, so to speak. [[Special:Contributions/104.230.247.132|104.230.247.132]] ([[User talk:104.230.247.132|talk]]) 00:40, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
::That’s not exactly relevant to Trump; maybe put that in the [[Biden]] article? [[User:Hurricane Clyde|<span style="color: Green;">'''Hurricane Clyde''' 🌀</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Hurricane Clyde|<span style="color: Blue;">''my talk page!''</span>]]</sup> 19:45, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
'''Oppose split.''' What are "political policies"? If we are talking about his political positions, we have [[Political positions of Donald Trump]]. If we are talking about his policies, we have [[Political career of Donald Trump]] (and its sub-articles [[First presidency of Donald Trump]] and [[Second presidency of Donald Trump]]). If we are talking about his ideology or political movement, we have [[Trumpism]]. I don't see what niche the proposed article would fill that isn't already covered. — [[User:Goszei|Goszei]] ([[User_talk:Goszei|talk]]) 05:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)▼
'''Oppose''' - For starters "political policies" is ridiculous redundant phrasing. Separate articles already exist for his first administration's [[Economic policy of the first Donald Trump administration|economic policy]], [[Social policy of Donald Trump|social policy]], and [[Foreign policy of the first Donald Trump administration|foreign policy]]. No need to create yet another article about his policies. A split may be necessary but this isn't the solution. --[[User:Estar8806|estar8806]] ([[User talk:Estar8806|talk]]) [[Special:Contributions/Estar8806 |★]] 03:23, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
'''Strongly oppose.''' Political policies, what kind of Deepak Chopra mumbo-jumbo is that? Policy is the actual or proposed implementation of political philosophy and principles, the phrasing of ''political policies'' is about as coherent as the phrase ''thoughtful thinking''. From that alone, I can already sense that the stench of bullocks is strong with this split proposal. Upon further inspection, I feel that such initial hunch of mine was right. Pleasant editing, [[User:Irruptive Creditor|Irruptive Creditor]] ([[User talk:Irruptive Creditor|talk]]) 08:22, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
== Fake electors plot ==
Why is there no mention of the Eastman memos or the fake electors scheme in here? Seems very important [[User:Zzendaya|Zzendaya]] ([[User talk:Zzendaya|talk]]) 00:59, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
:Huh, I would've thought this article would have included that. Maybe it did at one point and was cut? We have issues with [[WP:ARTICLESIZE]] here. – [[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]] ([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 01:22, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
▲'''Oppose split.''' What are "political policies"? If we are talking about his political positions, we have [[Political positions of Donald Trump]]. If we are talking about his policies, we have [[Political career of Donald Trump]] (and its sub-articles [[First presidency of Donald Trump]] and [[Second presidency of Donald Trump]]). If we talking his ideology or political movement, we have [[Trumpism]]. I don't see what niche the proposed article would fill that isn't already covered. — [[User:Goszei|Goszei]] ([[User_talk:Goszei|talk]]) 05:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yeah. Just that those are central themes in the indictments surrounding overturning the election results. Doesn't seem appropriate to leave them out. [[User:Zzendaya|Zzendaya]] ([[User talk:Zzendaya|talk]]) 01:33, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
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