Wikipedia:Reference desk/Mathematics: Difference between revisions

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::Hence, writing <math>\sqrt2</math> by abuse of notation for <math>\omega(1-\omega^2),</math> we have:
:::<math>\begin{alignat}{2}7&=(3+\sqrt2)(3-\sqrt2)\\&=(2\sqrt2+1)(2\sqrt2-1)\\&=(5+3\sqrt2)(5-3\sqrt2)\\&=(4\sqrt2+5)(4\sqrt2-5).\end{alignat}</math>
::More in general, any natural number that can be written in the form <math>|2a^2-b^2|,a,b\in\mathbb N,</math> is not prime in <math>\mathbb Z[e^{\pi i/4}].</math> This also rules out <math>17,</math>the Gaussian primes <math>23,</math> <math>31,</math> <math>41,</math> <math>47,</math> <math>71,</math> <math>73,</math>and <math>79,</math> <math>89</math> and <math>97.</math> &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 11:50, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
:::So which primes <math>p</math> are still primes in the ring <math>Z[e^{\frac{\pi i}{4}}]</math>? How about <math>Z[e^{\frac{\pi i}{5}}]</math> and <math>Z[e^{\frac{\pi i}{6}}]</math>? [[Special:Contributions/220.132.216.52|220.132.216.52]] ([[User talk:220.132.216.52|talk]]) 06:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
::::As I wrote, this is only a minuscule contribution. We do not do research on command; in fact, we are actually not supposed to do any original research here. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 09:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
::Moreover, <math>-2</math> is also a perfect square. (As in the Gaussian integers, the additive inverse of a square is again a square.) So natural numbers of the form <math>2a^2+b^2</math> are also composite. This further rules out <math>11,</math> <math>19,</math> <math>43,</math> <math>59,</math> <math>67</math> and <math>83.</math> A direct proof that, e.g., <math>11</math> is composite: <math>11=(1+\omega^2+3\omega^3)(1-3\omega-\omega^2).</math> There are no remaining candidates below <math>100</math> and I can in fact not find any larger ones either. This raises the conjecture:
:::
:::''Every prime number can be written in one of the three forms <math>a^2+b^2,</math> <math>2a^2+b^2</math> and <math>|2a^2-b^2|.</math>''
:::
::Is this a known theorem? If true, no number in <math>\mathbb Z[e^{\pi i/4}]</math> is a natural prime. (Note that countless composite numbers cannot be written in any of these forms; to mention just a few: <math>15, 1155, 2491.</math>) &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 11:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
 
: I'll state things a little more generally, in the cyclotomic field <math>\mathbb Q[e^{2\pi i /n}]</math>. (Your n is twice mine.) A prime q factors as <math>q = (q_1\cdots q_r)^{e_r}</math>, where each <math>q_i</math> is a prime ideal of the same degree <math>f</math>, which is the least positive integer such that <math>q^f \equiv 1\pmod n</math>. (We have assumed that q does not divide n, because if it did, then it would ramify and not be prime. Also note that we have to use ideals, because the cyclotomic ring is not a UFD.) In particular, <math>q</math> stays prime if and only if <math>q</math> generates the group of units modulo <math>n</math>. When n is a power of two times an odd composite, the group of units is not cyclic, and so the answer is ''never''. When n is a prime or twice a prime, the answer is when q is a primitive root mod n. If n is 4 times a power of two times a prime, the answer is ''never''. [[User:Tito Omburo|Tito Omburo]] ([[User talk:Tito Omburo|talk]]) 11:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
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:::This equation is just the definition of function ''g''. For instance if function ''f'' has the inverse function ''f''<sup>−1</sup> then we have ''g(x)=x''. [[User:Ruslik0|Ruslik]]_[[User Talk:Ruslik0|<span style="color:red">Zero</span>]] 20:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
::: If f is the temperature, and g is the evolution of an ensemble of particles in thermal equilibrium (taken at a single time, say one second later), then because temperature is a function of state, one has <math>f(x)=f(g(x))</math> for all ensembles x. Another example from physics is when <math>g</math> is a Hamiltonian evolution. Then the functions <math>f</math> with this property (subject to smoothness) are those that (Poisson) commute with the Hamiltonian, i.e. "constants of the motion". [[User:Tito Omburo|Tito Omburo]] ([[User talk:Tito Omburo|talk]]) 20:33, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Thx. [[Special:Contributions/2A06:C701:746D:AE00:ACFC:490:74C3:660|2A06:C701:746D:AE00:ACFC:490:74C3:660]] ([[User talk:2A06:C701:746D:AE00:ACFC:490:74C3:660|talk]]) 10:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
:Let <math>f</math> be a function from <math>X</math> to <math>Y</math> and <math>g</math> a function from <math>X</math> to <math>X.</math> Using the notation for [[function composition]], the property under discussion can concisely be expressed as <math>f\circ g=f.</math> An equivalent but verbose way of saying the same is that the [[preimage]] of any set <math>B \subseteq Y</math> under <math>f</math> is [[Closure (mathematics)|closed]] under the application of <math>g.</math> &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 08:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
::Thx. [[Special:Contributions/2A06:C701:746D:AE00:ACFC:490:74C3:660|2A06:C701:746D:AE00:ACFC:490:74C3:660]] ([[User talk:2A06:C701:746D:AE00:ACFC:490:74C3:660|talk]]) 10:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
 
== IEEE Xplore paper claim to acheive exponentiation inversion suitable for pairing in polynomial time. Is it untrustworthy ? ==
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= December 9 =
 
== If the [[Mersenne number]] 2^p-1 is prime, then must it be the smallest [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod p? ==
 
If the [[Mersenne number]] 2^p-1 is prime, then must it be the smallest [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod p? (i.e. there is no prime q < p such that 2^q-1 is also a [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod p) If p is prime (no matter 2^p-1 is prime or not), 2^p-1 is always == 1 mod p. However, there are primes p such that there is a prime q < p such that 2^q-1 is also a [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod p:
 
* 2^19-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 73 (p=73, q=19)
* 2^31-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 151 (p=151, q=31)
* 2^61-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 151 (p=151, q=61)
* 2^17-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 257 (p=257, q=17)
* 2^31-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 331 (p=331, q=31)
* 2^61-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 331 (p=331, q=61)
* 2^127-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 337 (p=337, q=127)
* 2^89-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 353 (p=353, q=89)
* 2^89-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 397 (p=397, q=89)
 
but for these primes p, 2^p-1 is not prime, and my question is: Is there a prime p such that 2^p-1 is a prime and there is a prime q < p such that 2^q-1 is also a [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod p?
 
* If 2^11-1 is prime, then this is true, since 2^11-1 is == 1 mod 31 and 2^31-1 is prime, but 2^11-1 is not prime
* If 2^23-1 or 2^67-1 is prime, then this is true, since 2^23-1 and 2^67-1 are == 1 mod 89 and 2^89-1 is prime, but 2^23-1 and 2^67-1 are not primes
* If 2^29-1 or 2^43-1 or 2^71-1 or 2^113-1 is prime, then this is true, since 2^29-1 and 2^43-1 and 2^71-1 and 2^113-1 are == 1 mod 127 and 2^127-1 is prime, but 2^29-1 and 2^43-1 and 2^71-1 and 2^113-1 are not primes
* If 2^191-1 or 2^571-1 or 2^761-1 or 2^1901-1 is prime, then this is true, since 2^191-1 and 2^571-1 and 2^761-1 and 2^1901-1 are == 1 mod 2281 and 2^2281-1 is prime, but 2^191-1 and 2^571-1 and 2^761-1 and 2^1901-1 are not primes
* If 2^1609-1 is prime, then this is true, since 2^1609-1 is == 1 mod 3217 and 2^3217-1 is prime, but 2^1609-1 is not prime
 
Another question: For any prime p, is there always a [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod p? [[Special:Contributions/220.132.216.52|220.132.216.52]] ([[User talk:220.132.216.52|talk]]) 19:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
 
: Neither question is easy. For the first, relations <math>2^{q-1}\equiv 1\pmod p</math> would imply that the integer 2 is not a primitive root mod p, and that its order divides <math>q-1</math> for the prime q. This is a sufficiently infrequent occurrence that it seems ''likely'' that all Mersenne numbers could be ruled out statistically, but not enough is known about their distribution. For the second, it is not even known if there are infinitely many Mersenne primes. [[User:Tito Omburo|Tito Omburo]] ([[User talk:Tito Omburo|talk]]) 19:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
::I found that: 2^9689-1 is the smallest Mersenne prime == 1 mod 29, 2^44497-1 is the smallest Mersenne prime == 1 mod 37, 2^756839-1 is the smallest Mersenne prime == 1 mod 47, 2^57885161-1 is the smallest Mersenne prime == 1 mod 59, 2^4423-1 is the smallest Mersenne prime == 1 mod 67, 2^9941-1 is the smallest Mersenne prime == 1 mod 71, 2^3217-1 is the smallest Mersenne prime == 1 mod 97, 2^21701-1 is the smallest Mersenne prime == 1 mod 101, and none of the 52 known Mersenne primes are == 1 mod these primes p < 1024: 79, 83, 103, 173, 193, 197, 199, 227, 239, 277, 307, 313, 317, 349, 359, 367, 373, 383, 389, 409, 419, 431, 443, 461, 463, 467, 479, 487, 503, 509, 523, 547, 563, 587, 599, 613, 647, 653, 659, 661, 677, 709, 727, 733, 739, 743, 751, 757, 769, 773, 797, 809, 821, 823, 827, 829, 839, 853, 857, 859, 863, 887, 907, 911, 919, 929, 937, 941, 947, 971, 977, 983, 991, 1013, 1019, 1021 [[Special:Contributions/220.132.216.52|220.132.216.52]] ([[User talk:220.132.216.52|talk]]) 20:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
::Also,
::* 2^19937-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 2^16+1
::* 2^521-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 2^13-1
::* 2^3021377-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 2^17-1
::* 2^2281-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 2^19-1
::* 2^21701-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 2^31-1
::* 2^19937-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 2^89-1
::* 2^86243-1 is [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod 2^107-1
::but none of these primes p has 2^p-1 is known to be prime, the status of 2^(2^89-1)-1 and 2^(2^107-1)-1 are still unknown (see [[double Mersenne number]]), but if at least one of them is prime, then will disprove this conjecture (none of the 52 known Mersenne primes are == 1 mod 2^61-1 or 2^127-1), I think that this conjecture may be as hard as the [[New Mersenne conjecture]]. [[Special:Contributions/220.132.216.52|220.132.216.52]] ([[User talk:220.132.216.52|talk]]) 20:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
::Also, for the primes p < 10000, there is a prime q < p such that 2^q-1 is also a [[Mersenne prime]] == 1 mod p only for p = 73, 151, 257, 331, 337, 353, 397, 683, 1321, 1613, 2113, 2731, 4289, 4561, 5113, 5419, 6361, 8191, 9649 (this sequence is not in [[OEIS]]), however, none of these primes p have 2^p-1 prime. [[Special:Contributions/220.132.216.52|220.132.216.52]] ([[User talk:220.132.216.52|talk]]) 02:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
 
= December 10 =
 
== More on the above conjecture ==
 
Above I posed:
:{{serif|'''Conjecture'''. ''Every prime number can be written in one of the three forms <math>a^2+b^2,</math> <math>2a^2+b^2</math> and <math>|2a^2-b^2|.</math>''}}
If true, it implies no natural prime is a prime in the ring <math>\mathbb Z[e^{\pi i/4}]</math>.
 
The absolute-value bars are not necessary. A number that can be written in the form <math>-(2a^2-b^2)</math> is also expressible in the form <math>+(2a^2-b^2).</math>
 
It turns out (experimentally; no proof) that a number that can be written in two of these forms can also be written in the third form. The conjecture is not strongly related to the concept of primality, as can be seen in this reformulation:
 
:{{serif|'''Conjecture'''. ''A natural number that cannot be written in any one of the three forms <math>a^2+b^2,</math> <math>2a^2+b^2</math> and <math>2a^2-b^2</math> is composite.}}
The first few numbers that cannot be written in any one of these three forms are
:<math>15,</math> <math>21,</math> <math>30,</math> <math>35,</math> <math>39,</math> <math>42,</math> <math>55,</math> <math>60,</math> <math>69,</math> <math>70,</math> <math>77,</math> <math>78,</math> <math>84,</math> <math>87,</math> <math>91,</math> <math>93,</math> <math>95.</math>
They are indeed all composite, but why this should be so is a mystery to me. What do <math>2310=2\times 3\times 5\times 7\times 11,</math> <math>5893=71\times 83</math> and <math>7429=17\times 19\times 23,</math> which appear later in the list, have in common? I see no pattern.
 
It seems furthermore that the [[primorial]]s, starting with <math>5\#=30,</math> make the list. (Checked up to <math>37\!\#=7420738134810.</math>) &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 19:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
 
:Quick note, for those like me who are curious how numbers of the form <math>-(2a^{2}-b^{2})</math> can be written into a form of <math>2a^{2}-b^{2}</math>, note that <math>2a^{2} - b^{2} = (2a + b)^{2} - 2(a + b)^{2}</math>, and so <math>2a^{2} - b^{2} = -p \Rightarrow p = 2(a + b)^{2} - (2a + b)^{2}</math>. [[User:GalacticShoe|GalacticShoe]] ([[User talk:GalacticShoe|talk]]) 02:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:A prime is expressible as the sum of two squares if and only if it is congruent to <math>1 \!\!\!\pmod 4</math>, as per [[Fermat's theorem on sums of two squares]]. A prime is expressible of the form <math>2a^{2} + b^{2}</math> if and only if it is congruent to <math>1, 3 \!\!\pmod 8</math>, as per [[OEIS:A002479]]. And a prime is expressible of the form <math>2a^{2} - b^{2}</math> if and only if it is congruent to <math>1, 7 \!\!\pmod 8</math>, as per [[OEIS:A035251]]. Between these congruences, all primes are covered. [[User:GalacticShoe|GalacticShoe]] ([[User talk:GalacticShoe|talk]]) 05:59, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::More generally, a number is ''not'' expressible as:
::# <math>a^{2} + b^{2}</math> if it has a prime factor congruent to <math>3 \!\!\!\pmod 4</math> that is raised to an odd power (equivalently, <math>3, 7 \!\!\pmod 8</math>.)
::# <math>2a^{2} + b^{2}</math> if it has a prime factor congruent to <math>5, 7 \!\!\pmod 8</math> that is raised to an odd power
::# <math>2a^{2} - b^{2}</math> if it has a prime factor congruent to <math>3, 5 \!\!\pmod 8</math> that is raised to an odd power
::It is easy to see why expressibility as any two of these forms leads to the third form holding, and also we can see why it's difficult to see a pattern in numbers that are expressible in none of these forms, in particular we get somewhat-convoluted requirements on exponents of primes in the factorization satisfying congruences modulo 8. [[User:GalacticShoe|GalacticShoe]] ([[User talk:GalacticShoe|talk]]) 06:17, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks. Is any of this covered in some Wikipedia article? &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam#top|Lambiam]] 10:06, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
 
= December 11 =
 
== Unique normal ultrafilter ==
 
So I'm supposed to know the answer to this, I suppose, but I don't seem to :-)
 
"Everyone knows" that, in <math>L[U]</math>, [[Gödel's constructible universe]] relative to an [[ultrafilter]] <math>U</math> on some [[measurable cardinal]] <math>\kappa</math>, there is only a single [[normal ultrafilter]], namely <math>U</math> itself. See for example [[John R. Steel]]'s monograph [https://math.berkeley.edu/~steel/papers/comparisonlemma.03.07.22.pdf here], at Theorem 1.7.
 
So I guess that must mean that the [[product measure]] <math>U\times U</math>, meaning you fix some identification between <math>\kappa\times\kappa</math> and <math>\kappa</math> and then say a set has measure 1 if measure 1 many of its vertical sections have measure 1, must ''not'' be normal. (Unless it's somehow just equal to <math>U</math> but I don't think it is.)
 
But is there some direct way to see that? Say, a continuous function <math>f:\kappa\to\kappa</math> with <math>\forall\alpha f(\alpha)\leq\alpha</math> such that the set of fixed points of <math>f</math> is not in the ultrafilter? I haven't been able to come up with it. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 06:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)