Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association

Steph Curry 6-6 on threes on April 9

On April 9, Curry went 6–6 on threes (https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/401585783). I know that Jalen Brunson tied the NBA record this year with a 9-9, so it is not nearly an NBA record for single-game threes without a miss. However, Steph has never gone more than 4–4 without a miss before. I believe this might be a Warriors record (based on my cursory look at his game logs). Nonetheless, statmuse.com does not include the performance (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-3-point-shots-made-without-a-miss-in-a-game-in-golden-state-history), but seems support 6–6 as a team record. I want to drop it in Stephen_Curry#Records as a shared record, but can't find any support for this.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

If there was a Golden State Warriors accomplishments and records article (similar to Los Angeles Lakers accomplishments and records), perhaps that would be a good place to put that information. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger, Adding it to Golden State Warriors#Franchise leaders and awards would probably not fit. Other option is to add record to List of career achievements by Stephen Curry but that article is most likely going to be deleted because of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Larry Bird. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

User:BeFriendlyGoodSir, it looks like a lot of these lists have been trashed. Is that content really being deleted or is it being merged back?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:07, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger, Perhaps some of it should have been merged to main article but I believe they did not. They already deleted Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Dwight Howard, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Carmelo Anthony , Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Chris Paul and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Dwyane Wade (2nd nomination). - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure how I feel about those deletions personally but that is the consensus. Their reasoning is WP:UNDUE and WP:NOTSTATS. But it might also have to do with WP:NOEFFORT and lacking sources. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Rodman and Garnett are the most recent lists to be deleted. I disagree with the consensus, but it is a consensus.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:20, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Tyus Jones

It seems that Tyus Jones has not only led the NBA in assists:turnover ratio for a sixth consecutive season, but also surpassed his previous the NBA single-season record for a second time (min 200 assists) 327/47 (6.95, 2018–19) 324/46 (7.04, 2021–22) to 485/66 (7.35, 2023–24). I don't seem to be able to find a WP:RS for this fact.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

This is the closest i've got with 2 games left.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I thought USA Today is an RS source? - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 00:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

User:BeFriendlyGoodSir, The problem is that the season did not end until April 14. That source was written with at least 2 games remaining.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

More articles will be written about him and the record after the playoffs. Wait around until offseason. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources says USA Today is a good RS source, at least I think? - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 00:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Is this an WP:RS?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:09, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

this seems to be an RS for leadership, but does not mention the record.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Tyus’ season-best record needs to be updated on NBA records as well. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 20:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

That list only has sourced records it seems. I need a source.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Youngest NBA Blocks leader

Resolved

At List of NBA regular season records, Anthony Davis is listed at Youngest/Oldest to lead the league in blocks as the Youngest: Anthony Davis at 21 years, 36 days (on April 16, 2014), averaging 2.8 blocks per game. I do not see a source for this record which does not matter for this list because Victor Wembanyama surpassed that record this year, but it does matter because I would like to include the fact that he held the record for 10 seasons in his bio. I have a source for Wembanyama.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

• User:Tbb 911, who has not made an edit in over 100 days was the person who added that fact.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:22, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Source found.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

List of NBA awards

User:BeFriendlyGoodSir and I have been talking about changes needed at the listing at List of NBA awards. Basically we were thinking about in season awards NBA Player of the month, Coach of the month, Player of the Week and Rookie of the Month seem to all be official NBA awards that we don't list or even have articles for. In addition, the NBA CUP MVP seems like it is official enough to be listed in that infobox. Thoughts?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

They are mentioned separately in each NBA season's article (see 2023–24 NBA season#Players of the Week) but not in List of NBA awards as you say. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 21:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Infoboxes are meant to be a summary of the prose. I don't think the monthly awards are mentioned at the prose at all. Howard the Duck (talk) 06:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

The lead sentence currently limits the scope to annual awards, similar to List of Major League Baseball awards. Do sources talk about all the historical winners collectively, as opposed to only mentioning them for a given season? —Bagumba (talk) 07:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

List of Major League Baseball awards#Reliever of the Year mentions Reliever of the Month Award and now-defunct Delivery Man of the Month Award which have their own articles. Also, MLB also has Major League Baseball Rookie of the Month Award, Major League Baseball Pitcher of the Month Award, and Major League Baseball Player of the Month Award.- BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 21:46, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Basketball Reference POTM list, Basketball Reference POTW list, Basketball Reference ROTM list, Basketball Reference COTM list. RS sources to support? I found many RS for winners in a given month. Haven't looked for RS on historical winners collectively. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 23:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Stat sites are typically not used to establish notability. WP:LISTN needs to be met.—Bagumba (talk) 01:48, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Jayson Tatum named Eastern Conference Player of the Month after leading Celtics to 9-1 record in February, The Most Player Of The Month Awards: LeBron Has More Than Kobe And Jordan Combined, LeBron James Is Undoubtedly The NBA’s Player Of The Decade. No One Else Is Even Close., Mavs' Luka Doncic Named February's Western Conference Player of Month BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:29, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

What does LeBron do with all those Player of the Month awards? - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:34, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Every NBA Eastern and Western Conference Player of the Week award for 2023-24 - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Those are some sources I found. I don't see any collective historical winner list that includes ALL of them from a single RS. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:42, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

But I did find annual breakdowns of POTM and POTW records if that is enough? - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:45, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Mosts of those sites are amateurish and bloggy and not what I consider reliable (Fansided, Fan Network, SB Nation). Also, WP:LISTN requires that the group be discussed, not just mention of one person winning.

One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been.

—Bagumba (talk) 03:53, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Sounds like those MLB of the Month records should be AfD'd then. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:02, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Namely, Major League Baseball Player of the Week Award, Major League Baseball Rookie of the Month Award, Major League Baseball Pitcher of the Month Award, Major League Baseball Player of the Month Award, Major League Baseball Reliever of the Year Award, Delivery Man of the Month Award - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:21, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Major League Baseball Reliever of the Year Award seems ok. —Bagumba (talk) 05:09, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Typo. meant to say Major League Baseball Reliever of the Month Award - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

It could be a good litmus test. —Bagumba (talk) 05:08, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger, turns out NBA Rookie of the Month Award already exists and was created in 2009. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 00:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I think it is fair to say if POTM, POTW, or COTM were created, they would likely remain up. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 00:11, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I would create it myself if I was confident that it will stay up. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 01:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

List of countries with their first NBA player

Similar to List of countries with their first NHL player, NBA could benefit from an article called List of countries with their first NBA player which would expand upon Race and ethnicity in the NBA. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

In theory, the info is already at List of NBA players born outside the United States if you sort by career years and then by country. —Bagumba (talk) 04:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

List of NBA players born outside the United States

List of NBA players born outside the United States (formerly named List of foreign NBA players) strangely now lists some players born in the US. Go figure.—Bagumba (talk) 05:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

As I recall, the article used to be more focused on nationality than birthplace. The article was moved due to concerns over the term "foreign," but the actual scope of the page is still poorly defined. I do think birthplaces are a more practical focus. We certainly shouldn't be including guys like Matt Costello, who was born in the US and became naturalized to play for Cote D'Ivoire years after his cup of coffee in the NBA. Zagalejo (talk) 04:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

People have only one birthplace, which avoids the unwieldy nationality and incorrect assumptions about which countries have jus soli and players with dual citizenship. One caveat is that the NBA never counted players born overseas to US military parents. There's enough articles talking about non-US players to meet WP:LISTN, and then grouping by birthplace is an editorial content decision.—Bagumba (talk) 04:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Does the NBA still have a master list of who they consider to be "international" players? Back in the day, the book version of the Official NBA Encyclopedia listed everyone by country, but that only went up to the year 2000 or thereabouts. I doubt we'll ever see a new edition of that book. Zagalejo (talk) 18:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

They seem to have press releases before each season, like this for 2023–24. Note that for notability purposes, we should go off what independent sources say, and not necessarily be a slave to the NBA wishes. —Bagumba (talk) 20:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - similar conversation in the past Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 39#List of foreign NBA players— Preceding unsigned comment added by BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk • contribs) 02:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Team captains

There's quite a few current roster templates where captains are marked.[1] At the last discussion in 2018, there was no indication that these are verifiable (if even a thing still).

Any objectioons to:

1. Remove them from current templates
2. Remove them from historical team season pages
3. Remove from the legend at Template:NBA roster footer

@Rikster2 and Sabbatino:: Courtesy notification as participants from the last discussion.—Bagumba (talk) 05:22, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Sbaio: Oops, your name changed since then.—Bagumba (talk) 05:23, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

The info is usually unverified and lots of assumptions that star players are automatically captains. I support the idea of removing completely. Rikster2 (talk) 12:50, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

They should be removed completely. I always remove the "C" when I end up on roster templates, but anonymous IP editors tend to add them again. – sbaio 14:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

None of the roster pages that I saw (NBA.com, ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS and B-R) list team captaons, but all as well don't show things such as college, and only some listed injury status or being a G-League player. If we'd be ditching this, we'd be ditching several more data. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

NBA.com used to list all roster info in a table, but then they went to a picture gallery. To get the college info, you need to click on the "Player Bio" link from their pic. At any rate, college is verifiable, one way or another. We don't know where to readily get historical captain info to support all the uncited data. In more recent times, I don't even think the concept still exists in the NBA. I was never into injury updates, but at least they're moot once a season is over.—Bagumba (talk) 15:00, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

NBA.com does use a gallery to present rosters, but for the others that I saw still used the tabular format. Some denoted injuries and G-Leaguers, and yes the colleges should be on individual player pages, but the tabular all have name, position (not all that I saw agreed on the position), jersey number, height and weight. This is on mobile and may be different on PCs. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:23, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

ESPN and Basketball Reference show colleges on desktop (at least).—Bagumba (talk) 15:37, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

On mobile, ESPN seems it doesn't, but you'd have to scroll on the right side to see it. It even has a column for salary and I haven't seen that earlier.

Suggestion: Either replace NBA.com with ESPN as roster references, or add ESPN as a second reference. Remove captains, injuries, draft picks, etc. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:04, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

We've always referred to NBA.com for the "listed" height and weight, so that would be a big departure to remove it. —Bagumba (talk) 16:33, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

For "etc." I was referring to the symbols used in {{NBA roster footer}}. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, these roster templates are exclusively sourced to NBA.com team pages. If this is the case, only the information seen on the web page should be the ones that should be presented on Wikipedia's roster lists, unless multiple refs will be used, and if colleges are added, these will be specifically cited via per player basis. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:27, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

At least on WP:FL reviews from years ago, the general sentiment was that one source is sufficient if info is reasonably navigable off that page. In the worst case, extra refs can be added. And then technically speaking, WP:V only requires that info is verifiable (not necessarily cited), which colleges are. Only challenged or likely to be challenged info needs citations ;-) —Bagumba (talk) 15:46, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Things like college and DOB ARE on nba.com, just at the drill down to the player pages (from the roster link already provided). There is no reason that we have to source differently than it is today. We are moving far afield of the point - which is to assess if captaincy is kept on the WP roster template. Rikster2 (talk) 20:22, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Update All |note=C have been removed from the rosters on NBA team season and NBA Finals pages. On those pages, where |inj=yes was also present, I removed them, as it's trivial now if they were injured at the end of the season. There's still 100s of other historical team season pages with "inj=yes" on them.—Bagumba (talk) 09:14, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

• I kind of agree with the decision. It seems to me that college media guides seem to list captains historically like it is important and NBA team Media Guides (which seem to be harder to rustle up) don't seem to as much. Is this the logic? I think that is what User:Bagumba is saying.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:20, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

  i think the concept doesnt exist in NBA anymore. But random editors still add them, thinking it must be their star player. Then historically, nobody has indicated a way to comprehensively source them. —Bagumba (talk) 15:54, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

  Don't the refs talk to a player from each team prior to the tip off? Presumably that's the captain. I've always thought that this is given to the player with the longest tenure regardless of playing time. Either way, at this point it's hard to source this fact. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

  I think in the old days, only designated captains were officially allowed to talk to the refs. At some point, that was abandoned (or just not publicly advertised?).—Bagumba (talk) 08:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

  That was abandoned but I thought captains were still discussing stuff with the refs before tip off... I am still noticing this on TV but the refs may be talking to random players now. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Unsourced sections at NBA Finals article

I recently discovered that both the Bulls dynasty section and the Spurs and Lakers dominance section are entirely unsourced, and I tagged them accordingly. It would be nice to get the page in better shape before this year's Finals, when there will almost certainly be a spike in readership. Anyone who is willing and able to pitch in with citations to reliable sources would be greatly appreciated, thanks. Left guide (talk) 05:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Plenty of other sparsely sourced sections there too. These types of pages would be better with more comprehensive sources, with expert input on the overall highlights. Otherwise, it's swayed by editors/fans putting in their best memories. And the "dynasty" and "era" headings in all sports pages is quite monotonous. —Bagumba (talk) 09:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Scoot Henderson plus-minus

Would it be WP:UNDUE to include in the WP:LEAD the sentence that "Henderson has achieved two of the three worst single-game plus-minus totals (-56 & -58) in NBA history"? Should I ask this at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• Based on lack of responses, I will request advice at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:02, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
• See Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Scoot_Henderson.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Opinions requested re: NBA Most Valuable Player Award

One editor insists on adding this.

I think it's superfluous, junky, and wholly unnecessary.

What say the others? SportsGuy789 (talk) 02:06, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

A related policy is WP:ONUS:

While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included...The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.

—Bagumba (talk) 11:24, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

task forces

Resolved

Based on the conversation at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 44#WP:NBA project main page needs a revamp, the "inactive" task forces should probably be removed from WikiProject,. As a beginner Wikipedian, I was unbelievably confused with them being there. "Currently, there are eight task forces related to the NBA, and one related to the WNBA." I would remove it myself but I am not sure how. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 21:24, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

• Question - How do I edit the Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association? The featured list includes tons of articles that need WP:POSTMOVE changes from "National Basketball Association" to "NBA". - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 21:54, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Discrepancies between Basketball-reference.com and NBA.com

User:爨龘龘 seems to be making a lot of edits that disagree with Basketball-reference.com, but states that these are numbers from NBA.com. Has anyone noticed a lot of differences between the two.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Over a decade ago, I remember observing that NBA.com would sometimes round stats differently from basketball-reference.com. Does basketball-reference still provide year-by-year playoff stats for each player? Or do they break everything down by series now? Zagalejo (talk) 18:13, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

BR still has both year-by-year and series-by-series.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

In sections like "Per Game" and "Totals" there's now a "Playoffs" tab. —Bagumba (talk) 14:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Thanks! Zagalejo (talk) 18:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)