Talk:Kurds

Ismail and Karim Khan

Ismail was from mixed Greek (mother side) and Turkmen (father side) ancestry. The Kurdish ancestry is a very weak link going back to only one ancestor who lived 300 years before his time. He can not be considered Kurdish in any meaningful sense. Please check out the following sources. Ismail was of mixed Turkmen, Greek and distant Kurdish ancestry and his mother tongue was Azeri Turkish. The official language of the his court was also Turkish.

So I don't think it is reasonable to include him as a Kurdish personality. He did not speak the language, his immediate ancestors were Turkmen and Greek and his only possible Kurdish ancestor lived 300 years or roughly 10 generations before him. Yes, strictly speaking that may make him less than 0.1 percent Kurdish. So I suggest to remove him from the image gallery.

Regarding Karim Khan's ethnic origins, it is quite disputed and there is no consensus on his Kurdishness.Vekoler (talk) 10:15, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Karim Khan's origins aren't disputed. He was a Lak, not a Lur, who happened to live in Luristan. His allegiance was solely with his tribe, but Laks are ethnically Kurdish. His classification a Lur is often made because Laks were thought to be a Lurish offshoot, yet linguistic studies have confirmed Laki is more akin to Kurdish. See: Karim Khan Zand: a History of Iran, 1747-1779. Znertu (talk) 10:08, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

The family of Ismail I on his father's side was of Kurdish origin (see bottom). To suggest that he somehow was less than half Kurdish would be original research. And being half Kurdish does make him "Kurdish enough" to be included here. For example, Hosny and Ghalibaf are also included here, despite being half Kurdish. As for Karim Khan Zand, see above. I'm re adding both.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/ebn-bazzaz Best, --Spivorg (talk) 12:19, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

"Half being Kurdish does not make him"Kurdish enough"!!! lt is not tied to you. We do not have to add "pure Kurds", "pure Turks" to infobexes. Look at Turkish people. None of them is "pure" Turkish. Tatlitug is Boshniak, Erenler is Arab, Mehmet Oz and Pamuk are Circassians, all the sultans of Ottoman Empire are half Slavic because of their mothers, even Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is not "pure". And also you changed almost all of images, not only these two people's that are not "pure Kurdish". Qazi Mohammad, Nursi, Moshe Barazani, Zaro Agha-world's longest man- etc. With Darin and two lraqi scientists that are not famous at all. Do not change the images just because "you don't like it". There is a wikipedia policy about it, do not forget it. Lamedumal (talk) 06:54, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Note: l am not talking about lsmail l. His Kurdish ancestry is controversial. Lamedumal (talk) 07:25, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

You are misquoting me. Please re-read what I wrote. I did not say "Half being Kurdish does not make him"Kurdish enough"!!!", I said "And being half Kurdish does make him "Kurdish enough" to be included here." That is why I included Ismail I. Now, you claim that I changed most of the images; something I didn't do. I changed around 3/10 of the images, which is far from "almost all of images". Secondly, claiming that Darin isn't famous, but that the ones I removed are (compared to Darin) is wrong. A quick google search for Darin gives me 25 million results, which is much more than Dilsa Demirbag-Sten, Zaro Agha, Said Nursi and Ahmet Kaya put together. Thirdly, the reason I replaced Dilsa Demirbag-Sten and Ahmet Kaya with Bonni and Ala'Aldeen is because of variation. They are both politicians/singers, a reoccurring theme. Fourthly, take a look at the first inclusion of pictures of famous Kurds here. Notice that Darin, Bonni and Ala'Aldeen are all there. So please don't accuse me of changing images because I don't like it. I am, as already stated, adding variation. Fifthly, Moshe Barzani was first and foremost a Jew. Most of the sources I find on google don't even mention that he was Kurdish, but that he was a Jewish immigrant from Iraq. He is far from relevant when it comes presenting Kurds. And at last, I actually thought I included Nursi. I must have removed him without any intention of doing so. So, I will revert your edit, but I will re-add Nursi. I will however wait for a reply (or at least wait a few days) before editing, so we don't end up in an edit war. Best, --Spivorg (talk) 12:54, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

We DO NOT add people to infobox by looking their "google popularity". Thus, Qazi Mohammad is more important figure than Darin. Moshe Barazani is a Kurdish Jew. "Barazani" is a Kurdish surname. And also we do not have to add "pure" ethnicity here. I gave an example for it(Turkish people). Wikipedia is not your kindergarden. Lamedumal (talk) 13:07, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Note: lf you really really want to add Darin, Bonni, Fatah etc you can do it without deleting other people such as Qazi Muhammed, Nursi bla bla. Just add them at the bottom. lt is not too hard. And it is a good idea to reach a consensus. Lamedumal (talk) 13:28, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

You say that we shouldn't add by Google popularity, but then what criteria should we use? "Thus, Qazi Mohammad is more important figure than Darin." is not a logical conclusion. You tell me it's a good idea to reach consensus, which is exactly what I'm trying to do, unlike the ones who originally removed Darin, Bonni etc. Don't accuse me of changing the originals. And I am not even talking about pure ethnicity, please don't misquote me. I can't find a reliable source that says Moshe Barzani was Kurdish. Name is not good enough. I don't add Slavs with the name 'Goran' either. You didn't address Ismail I and Karim Zand, so I will be adding them too. Best, --Spivorg (talk) 08:54, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

The image section looks completely messes up now. I propose we use a grid of 5x5 pictures, like it is in most articles of ethnicities, try to use images that actually fit, i.e., aren't wider than they are long, at least. Arrange them by DOB, and then look for a balance in gender, profession/occupation and parts of Kurdistan represented.

-Ziryab likely wasn't Kurdish, but Persian or black African instead

-al-Jazari hailed from a Kurdish region, but we cannot safely say that he wasn't an Arab

-Zaro Aga is not an important figure; Mahwi isn't really well-known either

-There are too many political leaders of the modern era; Qazi Muhammad, Ihsan Nuri, Simko Shikak, Mustafa Yamulki, Mustafa Barzani, Massoud Barzani, Jalal Talabani... Znertu (talk) 09:01, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 23 May 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 07:12, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

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Kurdish people → Kurds – Common and standard form. Kurds redirects here as well so I suggest we move it. Jaqeli (talk) 14:27, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Support per nom Red Slash 03:33, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
• Support as common name. — kwami (talk) 08:08, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Remove Moshe Barazani

He is Hebrew, not Kurdish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.140.31 (talk) 03:33, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2014

Musa Obaidi (talk) 16:08, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. NiciVampireHeart 16:18, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Date for oath of Leyla Zana should be changed from1994 to1991.

Saw the date and realized it was probably a typo/incorrect since the oath and arrest were unlikely to occur within 1 month of each other. According to her (Leyla Zana) wiki page she took the oath and caused outrage in 1991. This is confirmed by several internet sites including http://www.nndb.com/people/691/000134289/

SECTION REFFERING TO IS THIS

Leyla Zana, the first Kurdish female MP from Diyarbakir, caused an uproar in Turkish Parliament after adding the following sentence in Kurdish to her parliamentary oath during the swearing-in ceremony in 1994:[147]

I take this oath for the brotherhood of the Turkish and Kurdish peoples. —

In March 1994, the Turkish Parliament voted to lift the immunity of Zana and five other Kurdish DEP members: Hatip Dicle, Ahmet Turk, Sirri Sakik, Orhan Dogan and Selim Sadak. Zana, Dicle, Sadak and Dogan were sentenced to 15 years in jail by the Supreme Court in October 1995.

Hope this helps wiki...

Random U — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.55.112 (talk) 18:58, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 June 2014

Please change "....tribal revolt led by Kurdish chieftain Simko Shikak stroke north western Iran....." to "...Shikak struck north..." As a native english speaker this rubbed me the wrong way. William H Shifflette (talk) 22:54, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Done Sam Sailor ^Sing 06:15, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2014

For Nizami Ganjavi as a Kurd there is no reference as he was originally Iranian Miillad (talk) 19:21, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 22:41, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Problem with other Iranians!

Please don't have blood feud with other Iranians. A whole section is devoted to Ardashir, and then somebody concludes that he was a Kurd himself!! (it really needs not two, but more exclamations points) The reality is that Achaemenidians and Sasanians subjugated all Iranians irrespective of what you like to call them now (Fars, Kurd, Azerbaijani, etc) You making "Kurd" old hard doesn't make it that. Before that in the article, Kurds were made related to Lullubi, Guti, Cyrtians, Carduchi, etc, etc; as if other Iranians are an exception! and they are not related to indigenous Iranian plateau as well as to Arians. Please stop this play.-Raayen (talk) 20:37, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2014

This claim should be removed from the article, History section, Ancient period:

• At least one author believes Ardashir I to have actually descended from a Kurdish tribe.[87]

Reason: Kaveh Farrokh is not an expert in ancient history. His works are not cited by other well-known experts. Mr. Farrokh's theories are just supported by himself alone. There is no "Kurdish" ethnicity in Ancient Persia. Kurd was a common name for the nomads of Persian empire territory. Farrokh's works are removed from other articles (ancient Persian and ancient Near East-related articles and dynasties). 89.165.98.252 (talk) 21:13, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Already done Sam ^Sing! 13:33, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2014

at:

Ahl-i Haqq (Yarsan)

change first sentence:
Ahl-i Haqq or Yarsanism is a syncretic religion founded by Sultan Sahak in the late 14th century in western Iran.
into:
Ahl-i Haqq or Yarsanism is a syncretic religion founded by Sultan Sahak in the late 14th century in western Iran.
because:
it's the first sentence to explain that religion and most people have no clue what syncretic means.
77.183.135.82 (talk) 08:41, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

 Done thanks for the suggestion - Arjayay (talk) 09:38, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Earliest Mention of Kurds

So the article says: The first attestation of the Kurds was during the time of rule of the Sassanids.

But I was just reading Xenophon's Anabasis, and they travel into the mountains of the Kurds (Karduchians) on their way to the lands of the Armenians. This would have been around 300 BC. Source: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Anabasis/Book_3/Chapter_5 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deinol (talk • contribs) 23:05, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Comprise vs. compose

This article uses the word "comprise(d)" incorrectly. Should be "compose" or similar. For example, Kurdistan comprises parts of Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey, not the otherway around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.15.156 (talk) 06:09, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

"Simko Shakak" vs "Ismail I"

The user "ArordineriiiUkhtt" has replaced my displacement of "Simko Shakak" to "Ismail I", on the image template. I think you know that Simko Shakak was an stupid revolt confirmed by Kurds like Mehrdad Izadi; a YAGHI with no clear aim, killing people like Assyrians and Azeris. I think you Kurds don't need to stick to your stupidities in the past as other nations should not do. I think "Ismail I" better reflects your current wise position: "politics".-Raayen (talk) 00:15, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

It was discussed in the talk page and editors reached a consensus to remove it. Because he was only 1/4 Kurdish and therefore not representative. See the archive of talk page to see the discussion. If you want to change Simko Shakak, find another "notable" person instead of Ismail I. Because he was very hybrid. He has Pontic Greek, Kurdish, Georgian and Turkish ancestries. You can add, for instance, Theophobos. As far as I remember he was Kurdish and notable enough. If you find sources to confirm it, feel free to add it. ArordineriiiUkhtt (talk) 00:42, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

I respect your opinion and the talk on this above, although it is not conclusive, and seems to me silly. If you want to go for greater Kurds on the image template, "Ismail I" was a greater Kurd than "Simko Shakak". That is what is done in other peoples' articles in Wikipedia; greater nationals first. You are doing a grave mistake to distance peoples of close connectivity. That is not good for humanity. How do you know Simko Shakak was more Kurd than Ismail I?! Your criteria seems to be nationalistic or assumed unconfirmed genetics, seemingly due to language, not what people really are; divergent depending on the conditions, taking sides irrespective of what our ideals are nowadays. I tried to add an Arab-Persian called al-Ma'mun to Iranian peoples, and was opposed as you did. That is neither right, nor according to sources and the norm of Wikipedia articles that consider people of half blood or 1/4 blood, as you said, belonging to several nations.-Raayen (talk) 19:11, 20 September 2014 (UTC)