Talk:Syrian civil war/North Korea
DPRK and Syria sign MOU and agreements.
From Central News Agency, DPRK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqB8HUHUTY&feature=g-u-u — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.237.122.122 (talk) 19:07, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
- North Korea is already mentioned in the Foreign involvement in the Syrian civil war article. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 19:14, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
North Korea and Iran (twice) in the infobox
Iran is already mentioned prominently in the regime's section, so why mention it a second time under "Armament support"?
North Korea's role consists mostly of military advising which is not as notable as Tehrik-i-Taliban for example, who established their own training camps with hundreds of fighters on ground. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 03:43, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Lol, North Korea is in, but Israel isn't? Slightly ridiculous. FunkMonk (talk) 13:40, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Like PLNR said, Israel is targeting Hezbollah in particular. And this is mainly part of the wider Iran-Israel proxy conflict, not this one. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 10:17, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
North Korean involvement
There is already quite enough evidence for North Korean military personnel fighting alongside Syrian troops. Maybe include them alongside Russia, Iran and Hezbollah ? - ☣Tourbillon A ? 21:07, 25 March 2016 (UTC) This page has some good text already. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War Washington Post has an article too today. Legacypac (talk) 22:31, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
- I meant in the infobox. Currently they are listed under "Support", while they should be listed as an active belligerent. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 22:50, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
North Korea
- Comment - if a semi-belligerent like Israel isn't going into the infobox, countries like North Korea, which have comparativley no role, should be removed. FunkMonk (talk) 11:29, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- North Korea should not be there. At best they may be a weapons vendor, but they will sell arms to anyone with cash. . Legacypac (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Agree - North Korea is not a notable supporter of belligerent.GreyShark (dibra) 15:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Agree to remove North Korea - It is not a vocal supporter of the Syrian Government--Opdire657 (talk) 17:51, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Hummm I went and looked and found sources listed in the infobox saying North Korea has two special forces battalions fighting in Syria plus "thousands" of missile and weapons experts. They are also an arms supplier. If the sources are correct, North Korea is a flat out belligerent with boots on the ground, not just a supporter. What think you? Should we post up the sources and debate them? Legacypac (talk) 18:36, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sounds like propaganda BS. If North Korea had forces on the ground, it would be all over the news. FunkMonk (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- It sounds extremely awkward to me, even though some sources state such claims. By the way, having advisors on the ground is still considered support not belligerency.GreyShark (dibra) 16:48, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
China?
According to this: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/china-enters-fray-in-syria-on-bashar-al-assad-s-side-1.2764979
and other news, China now promises limited non-interventionist support for the Syrian government. Should we add China under "Support" alongside Iraq and North Korea now? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BountyFlamor (talk • contribs) 14:31, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- Read WP:CRYSTALBALL.GreyShark (dibra) 19:23, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- Erm, a literal announcement of support by official state organs is about as far from crystaballism as you can get. My only reservation is the extent to which this includes military cooperation — China is being coy about this, so it's best to wait until this is confirmed. (Although I'm always amazed at the shifting standards of evidence; Cuba and North Korea persisted in the Infobox on the strength of sheer tabloid journalism until very recently). Albrecht (talk) 20:29, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- I support the North Syria Federation. Should you add me to the infobox? Now seriously, declartational support is not eligible to be included in the infobox. We need some solid evidence for Chinese actual physical support, otherwise those are just empty words, stated already by multiple countries.GreyShark (dibra) 17:20, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- Your support may consist of "empty words," China's does not: "Chinese military advisers are on the ground in Syria helping train soldiers in the use of weapons purchased from China, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and machine guns, reported the Global Times, which is published by the ruling Communist Party's flagship newspaper People's Daily." Albrecht (talk) 01:29, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
- Good point - seems like it is a valid source to justify Chinese inclusion as supporter of Ba'athist Syrian Republic.GreyShark (dibra) 20:49, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
- Your support may consist of "empty words," China's does not: "Chinese military advisers are on the ground in Syria helping train soldiers in the use of weapons purchased from China, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and machine guns, reported the Global Times, which is published by the ruling Communist Party's flagship newspaper People's Daily." Albrecht (talk) 01:29, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
- I support the North Syria Federation. Should you add me to the infobox? Now seriously, declartational support is not eligible to be included in the infobox. We need some solid evidence for Chinese actual physical support, otherwise those are just empty words, stated already by multiple countries.GreyShark (dibra) 17:20, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- Erm, a literal announcement of support by official state organs is about as far from crystaballism as you can get. My only reservation is the extent to which this includes military cooperation — China is being coy about this, so it's best to wait until this is confirmed. (Although I'm always amazed at the shifting standards of evidence; Cuba and North Korea persisted in the Infobox on the strength of sheer tabloid journalism until very recently). Albrecht (talk) 20:29, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- Support in the Security Council isn't empty words. By the way, there is some evidence for North Korea involvement:[1][2].--Jack Upland (talk) 22:51, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- These sources cite "a representative of a Syrian opposition delegation" and the notorious "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights"; hardly convincing or compelling testimony. One source admits that "there [have] been [no] concrete examples of North Korean soldiers fighting in the ongoing civil war" and that "the evidence is not conclusive." The evidence for a pre-existing military relationship is much more concrete, but it's important to distinguish this from active support in the SCW. I'd like to see some more-or-less independent confirmation of these 10-15 Arabic-speaking DPRK 'advisors.' Albrecht (talk) 01:40, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
- You're right about SOHR being notorious, even its article here on Wikipedia is recently made notoriously biased. Some better refs for Chinas emerging involvement must exist. SaintAviator lets talk 23:36, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
- The difference is that the North Koreans are alleged to be there by (unreliable) third parties, without any proof; the Chinese have themselves announced the presence of their advisors. If these advisors are sufficient to be listed as a supporter, then I could agree to the inclusion of China. Albrecht (talk) 17:34, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- You're right about SOHR being notorious, even its article here on Wikipedia is recently made notoriously biased. Some better refs for Chinas emerging involvement must exist. SaintAviator lets talk 23:36, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
- These sources cite "a representative of a Syrian opposition delegation" and the notorious "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights"; hardly convincing or compelling testimony. One source admits that "there [have] been [no] concrete examples of North Korean soldiers fighting in the ongoing civil war" and that "the evidence is not conclusive." The evidence for a pre-existing military relationship is much more concrete, but it's important to distinguish this from active support in the SCW. I'd like to see some more-or-less independent confirmation of these 10-15 Arabic-speaking DPRK 'advisors.' Albrecht (talk) 01:40, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
North Korea
Some IP user tried to add North Korea to the infobox, despite previous discussion to comment it out. So far the North Korean alleged involvement has only been proposed by rumors, with no official approval of neither North Korea nor Syrian Arab Republic. We need very strong sources to justify listing North Korea in the box and it should be notable and verifiable.GreyShark (dibra) 07:04, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- @Jack Upland, Albrecht, and SaintAviator: your opinion is welcome (participants of August 2016 discussion).GreyShark (dibra) 07:13, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- @Legacypac, FunkMonk, and Opdire657: - participants of May 2016 discussion.GreyShark (dibra) 07:13, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- There's not enough to justify listing it here. The reports of North Korean troops are now months old. If the story was true I would expect some follow-up. North Korea is, however, mentioned in Foreign involvement in the Syrian Civil War, and I think this is appropriate.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:44, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- Rumours are not enough for inclusion. FunkMonk (talk) 10:56, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- As per above (and my own previous statements), there needs to be a higher burden of proof than "so-and-so said." There's also a difference, I will observe, between a pre-existing (commercial) military relationship and "support" in the context of the SCW. Albrecht (talk) 14:38, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
If North Korea was really supplying troops to Syria that would be big news, and until then its just a rumor. Legacypac (talk) 00:30, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
North Korea military involvement
In 2016, there were reports that DPRK troops were fighting to defend the Syrian government in the Syrian Civil War. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/03/25/are-north-koreans-fighting-in-syria-its-not-as-far-fetched-as-it-sounds/?utm_term=.c6de84dac035 AHC300 (talk) 10:46, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- The source doesn't indicate Korean involvement, but rather offers a theory. This is not WP:NOTABLE.GreyShark (dibra) 16:51, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
- And of course this is WP:RSOPINION, not a fact.GreyShark (dibra) 06:41, 11 July 2017 (UTC)