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Latest comment: 9 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion
I request to the status changed from inconclusive to ongoing. There's no indication that the battle of Donbas is over. There's still fighting ongoing in settlements and cities in the Donbas such Advika, Marinka, near Bakhmut and surrounding areas. It doesn't make any sense that the battle is considered over while both sides are still launching offensive to capture territory in the region. I also request to change the title to "Battle of Donbas (2022-present)", as the battle is still ongoing. LegendaryChristopher (talk) 06:31, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
I think the issue comes from the fact that we are still using terminology from when the war was still mobile. The choice to separate the war to "campaigns", like Eastern Ukraine campaign made sense because at the time it was mostly about Russians rapidly advancing without a solid frontline (and many probably thought it will be over soon). Now however it's the opposite, static fighting that far surpasses the scope of a single campaign taking place in the same area, so any "Battle of ____" article bloats out of proportion, because years on, fighting still takes place there, so we still file it under the same article.
The battle of Donbass was always a flawed term, it was justified because that's how the media talked about it, but the media doesn't need to keep a consistent terminology, so it simply stopped using it once it became clear fighting in the Donbass will continue past anything that could be considered a single "battle". So Eastern Ukraine campaign and Battle of Donbass are both leftover terminology that largely overlap. We wouldn't choose to segment the war this was with our current hindsight.
The situation is a bit like if Wikipedians during the Race to the Sea created an article for the new campaign, and then kept adding stuff even after the front became static given "fighting is still taking place in the area". If the Battle of Donbass will continue until fighting stops there, then it started back in 2014. No, the concept meant to refer to a new Russian offensive in the area, it's just that the terminology at the time didn't have the hindsight to know how long this war will drag on fighting in the same places.
We can have articles that discuss the entire history of war in a specific area. Maybe Front or Theater should be used for that.
We can have articles about the offensive pushes one side makes, but they should have clear beginnings and ends when it runs out of steam. So far, it seems we have alternating periods of Russian and Ukrainian offensives, with the original "Battle of Donbass" being the first Russian offensive that ended once the front stabilized in August 2022.
Over at the Syrian civil war they made separate pages for every time one faction gained territory, and called it a separate offensive, like Aleppo offensive (July–August 2016). The other side starts gaining ground -> New offensive -> New Article
Imo, we should have Donbass offensive (April-September 2022), Luhansk counteroffensive (September-October 2022), 2022-23 Russian Winter Offensive (Bakhmut, Soledar, Toretsk, Vuhledar October 2022-May 2023), 2023 Ukrainian Counteroffensive (Robotyne, south of Velyka Novosilka, Klishchiivka, 2023 June-Sept), and 2023-24 Russian Winter Offensive (Avdiivka, west of Bakhmut)
The same issue occurs in a smaller scale in individual city battles, like the drama around if the Battle of Bakhmut ended or not. It was originally coined, like the Battle of Siversk, to refer to the fighting after the fall of Severodonetsk, east of the given city. But then fighting moved into the urban area, and the article became about the fighting to capture the city. That was over by May 2023, but fighting continues around the city with sustained intensity - so where should we write about those. Following the aforementioned example of the Syrian civil war, they would just make "Bakhmut counteroffensive (May - September 2023)", then move onto a different article now that it's Russian gains again. I think we have enough material for separate articles.
Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments3 people in discussion
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I request the status of the battle of Donbas to be changed from inconclusive to ongoing as fighting is still ongoing in the region and no information states otherwise. LegendaryChristopher (talk) 16:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
It would be nice if we had sources indicating the "result" of the "battle of Donbas". Everyone was so quick to report that it had begun, but almost never mentioned it by that name again. If you are aware of sources that support your suggestion please provide them. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 14:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
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Note: since it was changed by HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith, I think it would be best if they could explain why the rationale behind it. M.Bitton (talk) 15:06, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Not done: per HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith's explanation. M.Bitton (talk) 15:57, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Battles of Bohorodychne and Krasnopillia has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 21 § Battles of Bohorodychne and Krasnopillia until a consensus is reached. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 21:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)