Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sportspeople

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Sportspeople. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion

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Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Sportspeople|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.

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You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Sportspeople. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.

Further information

For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

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Sportspeople

Luis Anula

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Physical coaches are very rarely notable, and this coach has worked for relatively minor clubs on a European scale. There is no trace of independent and significant coverage in the sources, which are either primary sources, too reliant on quotes (which is also primary), too short to be significant or WP:ROUTINE transactional coverage, i.e. A went from B to C. Geschichte (talk) 08:48, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Velpula Sarayu

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Doesn't meet WP:GNG. I would have possibly declined for the second time, but it does appear that the creator has made up their mind that she ranks the 6th in an unknown women category of a chess competition. The subject has participated in non notable competition, and has appeared in few sources, but there aren't WP:SIGCOV. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:34, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Mathías Tomás

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No independent WP:SIGCOV, just stats pages and team-affiliated sources, for this football player and thus no pass of WP:GNG/WP:NSPORT. Please ping me if I missed anything in my WP:BEFORE. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:22, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. This is what I could come up with from Uruguay. However, I feel that one of the editors who are familiar with South American football should weigh in, i.e. User:BrazilianDude70, User:ImSnot, User:Unknown Temptation. Not because I have any anticipation whether they want to keep or delete, but because they know the language and the regional media well. Geschichte (talk) 06:52, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for the tag. What I see on the statistics alone is that the player has spent more time in Greece, which is not my expertise. He was a regular player in 2023-24 Super League for Panserraikos and now into the second season, so I can theorise there is wider coverage. However, this comes with the challenge of searching his name in the Greek alphabet. Unknown Temptation (talk) 09:01, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The Greek spelling is Ματίας Τομάς. I've found lots of results, but Google is listing match summaries. If there is a website which uses tags, you could follow the tag and see exactly what they are writing about him. Unknown Temptation (talk) 09:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tyson Pearce

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No independent WP:SIGCOV of this soccer player and thus no pass of WP:GNG or WP:NSPORT. Refunded after successful PROD so time for AfD. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:31, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 00:50, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would accept draftify as an AtD (he is now a senior squad member for an MLS team so one would expect independent coverage before too long) although I worry we will be back here sooner than later if an editor returns the page to mainspace without going through AfC. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:44, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Grubb

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After three declined by three reviewers, the page creator continued resubmitting without properly reviewing the decline reason. Aside that, the sources aren't reliable, and this individual doesn't meet WP:NATH. More opinions are usually expressed in AFDs. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 17:38, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Seems to be a soccer coach with the same name, not sure if it's him or not. Regardless, there is no sourcing for this crossfit athlete, with only database listings now used for sourcing. I can't find anything about him. Oaktree b (talk) 23:20, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liang Yongfeng

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Failure of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 15 games in Hong Kong and nothing else. Sources are WP:ROUTINE at best. Geschichte (talk) 06:35, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Hwang Sun-il

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Failure of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played a couple of K League games as well as some in lower divisions. Geschichte (talk) 06:33, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 00:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cha Keon-myung

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Failure of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played a couple of K League games. Prod was tried many years ago. Geschichte (talk) 06:27, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nomination. Corresponding article on Korean Wikipedia is also unsourced. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 00:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Summer Laird

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Fails GNG. Dougal18 (talk) 10:31, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - there isn't much coverage and hasn't played in an acceptable league. Frost 16:06, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 00:54, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joe Fonti

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WP:TOOSOON for an article as I am unable to find enough in-depth coverage of this Australian rules footballer to meet WP:GNG. The closest to WP:SIGCOV I found was a few sentences of coverage here interspersed between some quotes, and this routine transactional announcement. JTtheOG (talk) 06:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Too soon, not enough sources that fit the GNG criteria. GMH Melbourne (talk) 23:27, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: doing a decent WP:BEFORE check is difficult these days with the major Aussie papers going behind paywalls, but Newsbank had 3 items of significant coverage from independent sources, which I've added to the article. The-Pope (talk) 03:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tyler Sellers

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WP:TOOSOON for an article as I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this young Australian rules footballer. Draftify until better sourcing is found. JTtheOG (talk) 06:07, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: additional independent sources found and added. The-Pope (talk) 04:24, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pablo Ramos (martial artist)

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A google search turns up other people named "Pablo Ramos" even when I added the words "martial artist." I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 17:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Meets neither GNG nor NSPORT, probably a vanity page. Nswix (talk) 19:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Very much PROMO for his business [1]. I don't think appearing in Stars and Stripes is quite the level of notability we're looking for. I don't see any sources we can use about this fellow. Oaktree b (talk) 21:13, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: And the image is a likely copyvio from the same website... another red flag here. Oaktree b (talk) 21:16, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete COI/PROMO, fails WP:GNG and fails martial arts notability. Having a black belt doesn't cut it. Lekkha Moun (talk) 14:19, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Massaquoi

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There's no independent WP:SIGCOV of this athlete, and thus the subject fails WP:GNG/WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:13, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Fails WP:GNG. Searches do not reveal any WP:SIGCOV. Demt1298 (talk) 21:32, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 00:54, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ali Esfandiary

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Fails notability and that's why this is an orphan article. there are just lots of not-really-related sources in Persian to make it look like a well-sourced article. while in fact this person is just a coach in a non-Olympic sport without much media coverage. Sports2021 (talk) 02:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete looks like vanity/COI. Lekkha Moun (talk) 08:26, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Erfan Hossein Yazdi

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Fails notability, he never achieved anything in senior level. the Asian bronze medal mentioned in this article is in the junior level. Sports2021 (talk) 02:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Shahin Naghipour Jafari

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Fails notability, almost everything in this article is not correct. he probably won some medals in some random tournaments but he never even participated in World or Asian Championships, let alone winning medals. this is more like a fake article trying to promote someone with no major achievement. Sports2021 (talk) 02:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Arsalan Alijani Monfared

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Fails notability, not a famous person. never did anything special. for example the article says he won a silver in speed skating!? a silver in what competition ? the rest of his achievements look a bit fake or exaggerated. it feels like he just paid someone to create an article here for him. Sports2021 (talk) 01:09, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - for what it's worth, this article and several others were created by a paid source. For a list of the other paid articles, please see User:Omid ahmadyani. — Maile (talk) 01:47, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Daniel Dobbin

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, an Irish footballer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 17:23, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: per nomination and WP:NATHLETE. I don't see significant (or really any, to be honest) coverage. Sir MemeGod  17:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:21, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dan Frantz

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Has been unsourced for nearly two decades. Not seeing ""significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject" to meet WP:BASIC. AusLondonder (talk) 17:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Leaning Keep(?). He did have an Arena Football League career spanning a decade and there does seem to be some coverage, although none of it is particularly spectacular: HS (1994), college 1997, 1997 (p2), 1998, 1999, 1999, 2013 ("the Rush showed up with an emergency kicker, 36-year-old Dan Frantz - five years removed from his last AFL action and 24 hours removed from grilling burgers in his backyard" - hah). There's probably enough to write a BASIC-compliant article here. Thoughts @AusLondonder:? BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:32, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't look at those clippings as I am still having some issues with Newspapers.com. However, here is this from 2004 and this from 2006 also. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:08, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: The sources provided by BeanieFan11 provide the WP:SIGCOV needed to meet the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 21:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Yong-su (footballer)

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Article fails WP:GNG. Redirect to North Korean 2002 Asian Games squad. Simione001 (talk) 23:57, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 23:59, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to North Korea 2002 Asian Game squad. Fails WP:GNG. Searches do not result in any WP:SIGCOV. Demt1298 (talk) 18:34, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 19:21, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Yong-ho

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 23:11, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 23:50, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Redirect – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 20:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 1992 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea where his name is mentioned. I also saw a politician Kim Yong-ho on candidates list for 2014 and 2019 North Korean parliamentary elections, but did not see any evidence of him being a politician after retirement from the football world. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:52, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 1992 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea. Fails WP:GNG. Searches do not result in WP:SIGCOV. Demt1298 (talk) 17:31, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 19:21, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Yong-il (footballer)

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Article fails WP:GNG. Redirect to 2019 AFC Asian Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 22:45, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 23:49, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - Per nom. Fails WP:GNG. Search does not reveal any WP:SIGCOV. Demt1298 (talk) 17:28, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 19:21, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 2019 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea per everyone else above. Corresponding article on Korean Wikipedia is also unsourced. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Yong-gwang

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Article fails WP:GNG. Match reports are WP:ROUTINE. Simione001 (talk) 22:43, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 23:49, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – We should never provide, like, match reports from FIFA and UEFA to football-related articles. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:53, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:GNG. Search resulted in no WP:SIGCOV. Demt1298 (talk) 17:22, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Song-sun

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 22:24, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 23:49, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:GNG. Search results in no WP:SIGCOV. I reviewed article on ja.wikipedia, de.wikipedia, and ko.wikipedia, all of which have no secondary coverage of subject. Demt1298 (talk) 16:43, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. By the way, Demt1298 source analysis is excellent! :) ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vitor Vieira

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Article does not meet WP:GNG. Search did no result in any significant secondary coverage. Demt1298 (talk) 20:57, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Absolutely nothing about him in the Brazilian sports media. Svartner (talk) 23:48, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kristiyan Stoyanov

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Can't find any non-WP:INTERVIEW WP:SIGCOV in either Bulgarian or English of this Bulgarian football player and thus can't find a pass of WP:GNG/WP:NSPORT. (Note, there is a Bulgarian track and field athlete of a similar first name, "Християн" vs "Кристиян," and an identical surname who comes up in searches.) Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:31, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 16:37, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As nominator I'd accept draftify as an alternative. Dclemens1971 (talk) 17:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep – I don't see how a player with 61 professional league matches can be WP:TOOSOON, but I guess there are other sport people with simular name that make it harder to find much information about him, bull all the refferences in the article prove that this is a proffesional player, having not one or two, but 61 apps in top level league, matches for youth national teams ect. and surely passes both WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT.Chris Calvin (talk) 06:26, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Chris Calvin I looked through the sources you added. In addition to what was there (a WP:INTERVIEW and thus a primary source, plus stats pages that are not WP:SIGCOV), it looks like the added sources are a video interview (primary source), a brief summary of the aforementioned video, routine match coverage, more routine match coverage, and a brief post-match interview. Still no SIGCOV but let me know if you find any. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 19:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Drafify or delete. Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. Alvaldi (talk) 19:56, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aldo Bushi

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Modest career with 81 minutes in Albania’s highest league and some seasons in the semi-pro seocnd tier with 1–7 games in each. Considering the minor accomplishments, this good source is not enough to push him over the WP:GNG bar. A further source search only yielded stat sites, social media and namesakes. I don’t know what this is, though, it’s a poem marked as humor. Geschichte (talk) 09:03, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 12:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete per the WP:Notability criteria. Ktrimi991 (talk) 18:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hadiputradila Saswadimata

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With only 474 minutes of playtime in Singapore under his belt, I don't see any hope of meeting WP:GNG and/or WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 09:05, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 12:28, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - Fails in WP:GNG, search results in no WP:SIGCOV. Demt1298 (talk) 16:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:18, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kyohei Yumisaki

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With a career consisting of 15 matches in the lower divisions of Japan, I see the chances of fulfilling WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT as slim. Sources in Ja:wiki are about participating in tryouts that didn't pan out as well as his team finishing second in a university championship. Geschichte (talk) 09:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 12:28, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete. Fails WP:GNG. Search results in no WP:SIGCOV. Demt1298 (talk) 16:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:18, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Naygel Coffie

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Created in a different time when national team play was within the guidelines; it is not anymore and I was not able to find a single article to contribute to passing WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 09:34, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:18, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Elias Hovdahl Sandrød

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I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this footballer using both "Elias Hovdahl Sandrød" and "Elias Sandrød" as a search term. JTtheOG (talk) 02:41, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, WP:TOOSOON. Subbed in the 86th minute and nothing of note has been disseminated about the player. Geschichte (talk) 08:46, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:21, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingemar Burgström

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Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT and WP:NOLY. Only sources I could find were 2 directory listings in Google books. LibStar (talk) 02:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, there's 146 mentions in Swedish newspaper archives, of which a lot seem like they might contain sigcov. We need someone with access to verify their content though. AlexandraAVX (talk) 19:33, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An Chol-hyok

AfDs for this article:

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Article fails WP:GNG. The one source provided is not nearly enough. Redirect to 2010 North Korean World Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 00:08, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy Keep. Article was already nominated for deletion by the same user less than three months ago, which resulted in a clear consensus to keep. Nothing has changed since then. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:22, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm suggesting that the previous result was incorrect as the article still fails WP:GNG. Was far from clear. Article should not be kept due to ideological reasons. Simione001 (talk) 01:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You personally may disagree with that consensus, but that does not mean that you are correct. Re-nominating it so soon when there's been zero change in anything – just because you don't like the original outcome – is borderline disruptive. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I didnt say i didnt like it, I'm saying that it was incorrect based on the sourcing. Are you saying that the one source is the article is sufficient to pass WP:GNG? If so I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion based on the guidelines if you are assessing the article objectively. Simione001 (talk) 01:48, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural keep – Per BeanieFan11. Little time has passed since the last AfD, nothing that justifies a change in consensus. Svartner (talk) 01:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the first AFD nomination votes/comments. This article was here in the AFD just about three months ago with huge support to keep and should not have been returned within this short period especially by the same user who nominated it then. Piscili (talk) 01:55, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep - nothing has changed since last AFD. Really bad faith nomination. GiantSnowman 18:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Where does it say that renominating an article after 3 months is not alloyed? especially when the article continues to fail WP:GNG. That is ample time to improve the article. The guidelines are quite clear. Nobody has made a argument about how the article passes WP:GNG either here or in the previous discussion. Simione001 (talk) 22:00, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Seung-il (footballer)

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Article fails WP:GNG. Redirect to 1966 World Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 00:01, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 01:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per nomination. There are corresponding articles in 13 languages, but none of them provide any significant coverage of him, especially the Korean Wikipedia which would help otherwise. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:37, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 18:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Simione001: You've nominated well over 150 historic North Korean footballers for deletion and seem to near-exclusively target them – where do you do your WP:BEFORE searches for them? BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They've obviously been going to North Korea and searching through newspaper archives. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BeanieFan11 and @WikiOriginal-9: Simone not only nominated sportspeople articles from North Korea, but I saw they've recently nominated those from other Asian countries such as Middle East (e.g. Husam Hourani). If both of you want to know what happened some time ago, read Jogourney and Spiderone's replies to Simone's talk page titled "AfDs".

My WP:BEFORE mostly revolves around news media on the article's language as well as Google search. If the source is not in English or my native language (Indonesian), I use Google Translate to see whether or not it contains significant coverage... or the fact that the person participates in event (e.g. Club debut). I can assume Simone just look that such articles fail WP:GNG in their own appearances without searching on Google or news media.

For countries that don't use Latin alphabet, finding significant information about something to add on Wikipedia might be certainly difficult. This is a problem for North Korea-related sportspeople articles since it doesn't have any trusted news media. From my editing experience, I see the exact same calibre format/reference as North Korea with, say, Slovakia-related articles, since most news coverage are paywalled. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:46, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can assume Simone just look that such articles fail WP:GNG in their own appearances without searching on Google or news media. – so, basically, there's no BEFORE at all for these nominations... (and I get that it's absurdly difficult to find North Korean newspaper sources, but I'd think that something should be done before trying to delete well over half of the footballers in a nation's history...) BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:10, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid just Googling isn't good enough sometimes, especially for a pre-internet topic like this. Even for a topic from 2010 or so, Googling may not be good enough. It doesn't take too long for some links to go dead on the internet. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:11, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Pung-il

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 23:58, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 02:02, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Myong-gil

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 23:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to 2010 FIFA World Cup squads#North_Korea

Lâm (talk) 09:26, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 18:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shunya Suzuki

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This footballer does not meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT yet, having only played 108 minutes of league football. Sources provided in Ja:wiki are either WP:PRIMARY or WP:PASSING. Geschichte (talk) 14:38, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Huang Pu

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. References are not significant and he has played only 9 games in China's third league as well as some in Portuguese amateur leagues. Geschichte (talk) 14:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. Has not played in top professional level in China or Portugal. LibStar (talk) 11:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Manabu Kubota

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Played 16 games in Japan's second league twenty years ago, no sign of WP:GNG/WP:SIGCOV. Geschichte (talk) 14:42, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 19:36, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hadiseh Jamal

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Fails notability, her achievements (even if they are correct) are in youth level. she never won anything in a major event. the article tries to sell her as a world and Asian senior medalist. Sports2021 (talk) 03:23, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Only success has come in junior events. According to the WKF records, she has competed in 9 events as an adult and never medaled. As an adult she has never qualified for a continental or world championship and is currently ranked #90. I found no significant independent coverage, mainly reports of Iranian youth team results. Doesn't meet any WP notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 14:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep In karate, unlike many other sports, there is no significant difference between the youth (under-21) and adult competitions in terms of credibility and status. In fact, both the youth and adult categories are evaluated at the same level, and there is no distinction in the value and importance of their achievements. This is often misunderstood by those who lack sufficient expertise in this sport. Many uninformed individuals, including some media outlets, may assume that youth competitions are less important than adult competitions. However, the reality is that youth competitions in karate are held with the same level of difficulty and seriousness, and the medals earned in both categories hold equal credibility and value.Particularly in prestigious continental events like the Asian Championships, which are overseen by the World Karate Federation (WKF), the medals are recognized as global successes. The quality of these competitions does not differ from that of adult competitions, and in many cases, athletes who achieve medals in the youth category quickly find remarkable success at the international adult level as well.This misunderstanding regarding the differences between age categories leads some individuals to fail to recognize the valuable achievements of athletes. However, from the perspective of experts and those who are deeply familiar with the structure of karate, such successes, even in the youth category, are by no means less significant than those in the adult category.Please advise users who lack sufficient knowledge about this sport not to remove templates or edit the article, as doing so only harms the integrity of information, such as that found on Wikipedia in English, and spreads misinformation about karate. Maintaining accuracy and reliability in the discourse surrounding this sport is essential.InfoExplorer2023 (talk) 20:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Completely fails sports notability. Lekkha Moun (talk) 16:22, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The issue of deleting certain sports articles, particularly regarding karate, requires careful and in-depth consideration. In this discipline, competitions and medals directly reflect the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. Karate, as a martial art, demands advanced techniques and high concentration, which can only be achieved through continuous practice and competition at the adult level.In karate, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are held in a professional and competitive manner. Winning a medal in Asian competitions, regardless of age, demonstrates the high abilities and skills of this athlete at an international level.Deleting these articles is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable from the perspective of the documentation and credibility of Wikipedia's sources. These articles can remain as reliable references in the field of karate and contribute to documenting the history and achievements of athletes.Therefore, based on my expertise in Wikipedia and the sport of karate, I firmly state that this article should be preserved to enhance the recognition of karate athletes' achievements and to document the history of this sport within Wikipedia.BookLover070 (talk) 19:19, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Parsa Mohammadi

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Fails notability, never even participated in a major event let alone winning something. he never won that medal mentioned in the article. Sports2021 (talk) 03:17, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Still another junior karateka with no success as an adult. The silver medal it shows for him at the Asian championships was in a cadet division (clear because the weight division given isn't used for adults and because he was only 15). The WKF database shows he won two fights to win the silver. He has never competed in a European or world championship as an adult. In fact, the WKF doesn't show him competing in any event as an adult yet. The sources are all from state media reporting on team results. No WP notability criteria are met. Papaursa (talk) 16:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I would like to provide some explanations regarding the proposal to delete this article, which may offer a different perspective on the issue. In karate, competitions and medals are directly related to the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. In this sport, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are highly competitive and professional.As a martial art, karate requires a high level of technique and focus, which can only be achieved through continuous training and competition at the adult level. In fact, karate practitioners compete with adults from the very beginning, and competitions are held in a professional and rigorous manner. The fact that the silver medal won at the Asian Championships for this athlete, regardless of age, reflects their high skill level and abilities on an international scale.Furthermore, deleting this article is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable according to Wikipedia's guidelines. This article should remain as a credible reference in the field of karate, as every sport requires documentation and resources that help showcase the history and achievements of its athletes.Ultimately, considering these points, deleting the article is not only a mistake but also results in the loss of an important part of the history and achievements of this athlete. The article should remain to aid in documenting and legitimizing this athlete’s contributions in the future.BookLover070 (talk) 19:06, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alireza Hashemzadeh

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Fails notability, most probably everything in this article is fake. he never won a gold medal at the Asian Games or 2019 Asian Senior Championships! he never participated in any major event. Sports2021 (talk) 02:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete He did not compete at the 2018 Asian Games, so that claim is false. The WKF database shows he is a registered competitor, but they show no record of him competing at any of their events. There are over 350 ranked competitors in his division, but he is not listed. The sources don't show WP notability or, in the case of his supposed Asian Games championship, what they're claimed to show. There is a source showing he won a bronze medal at the "2nd World Goju Karate Championship" in 2013 (he'd have been 17 or 18). The host South Africans won 21 of the 55 gold medals. His age, the medal distribution, and the fact that many of the divisions didn't even have enough competitors to give out all 4 medals all seem to point to this being a relatively minor event. I don't believe the coverage meets WP:GNG as it consists of lots of congratulatory reporting on results and celebrations over success at minor events. No evidence that any WP notability criteria is met. Papaursa (talk) 16:00, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amir Arsalan Heidarzad

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Fails notability, never did anything important in his career. completely unknown. Sports2021 (talk) 02:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete All of his successes were as a pre-teen or teenager, which doesn't show WP notability. He never competed at any European or world championships, either in a youth or adult division. As an adult he never finished in the top 10 of any WKF sanctioned tournament and lost more fights than he won. The sources merely report results and mistakenly refer to the Karate 1 series of events as "world championships" instead of relatively minor events. Papaursa (talk) 16:11, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Justin Janssen

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I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV for this footballer. Seems WP:TOOSOON for an article at the moment as all I found was this routine transactional announcement. JTtheOG (talk) 20:50, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 21:13, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify or delete per WP:ANYBIO and BLPSOURCES. Why was this accepted at NPR? Perhaps they know of sources we don't? SerialNumber54129 13:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article was reviewed as a part of the ongoing September New Page Patrol Backlog Drive, but articles like this get reviewed pretty often regardless. JTtheOG (talk) 17:51, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 18:04, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify as an ATD. Not presently notable. Bobby Cohn (talk) 20:09, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Samantha Cabiles

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:NSKATE. Bgsu98 (Talk) 16:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Max Trejo

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Played two professional games in MLS Next Pro and now plays for a university. Everything I could find from a Google search was related directly to his career at Ohio State University (almost all of it coming from OSU match reports and write ups). At this point, it looks like this fails WP:GNG. Anwegmann (talk) 02:30, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not meet WP:GNG. Demt1298 (talk) 17:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Not finding much about this subject outside of routine match reports. Fails WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 23:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Like WTF is with this article, over a hundred citations? On what exactly? Looking through the citations, it felt like WP:PRIMARY social media posting with a load of cite's pointing at stuff nothing really to do with this person. I really don't know what to make of it. I probably would delete because it feels like trash to me. Govvy (talk) 08:38, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mutwalibi Mugolofa

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Fails Wikipedia:GNG. There is no evidence of any appearance in any league match or appearance in international matches. EpicAdventurer (talk) 21:18, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect to Kampala Capital City Authority FC. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 20:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ismet Osmani

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Failure of WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG. Modest career with 63 minutes in Austria’s second highest league, as well as some games in Albania’s second tier, Austria’s third tier and Germany’s fourth tier. I can't find any significant coverage, only articles about an accused criminal of the same name. Geschichte (talk) 19:25, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:23, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jeon Bong-seong

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 18 times in Singapore and made no other mark on the sport. Geschichte (talk) 19:20, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:23, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Tae-young

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 361 minutes in China and in a couple of lower leagues. Geschichte (talk) 19:18, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:23, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. Corresponding article on Korean Wikipedia is also a stub. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:49, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Transfermarkt notes that he has one assist and zero goals in six games. If we add to that the few independent sources on the subject that talk about the player, I fail to see the relevance. --181.197.42.150 (talk) 15:48, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. Corresponding article on Korean Wikipedia is also unsourced. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:50, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daiki Goto

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. In 5 years, he has played 14 matches in the third league of Japan. Geschichte (talk) 19:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lim Choong-hyun

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Already notability-tagged for three years, so it's time for a discussion to decide. Geschichte (talk) 19:21, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 18:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lauren Anne Asher

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Page appears to fail WP:N, WP:SPORTSPERSON, WP:BIO for equestrians, not notable, few RS on this individual to warrant encyclopedic entry, listing existence could be seen as promotional for this person's business. The events that are described in this person's bio: FEI North American Continental Championships in 2014, 2015 and 2017,silver medal during the Championships in 2017 and won all U25 classes --are not the highest level of international competition and many individuals could have listings here. Maybe this competitor will become an international level performer but is not currently. Nayyn (talk) 18:38, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Article meet [[WP:Notable]] as quoted from the page "A sportsperson is presumed to be notable if the person has won a significant honor and so is likely to have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject"Tesleemah 08:20, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What of these wins is considered "a significant honor"? None of these are at international level.

Re:The concept of significant honour is not clearly stated, they Afterall won a national award and some Olympics Tesleemah 08:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They did not go to the Olympics Nayyn (talk) 19:29, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. Alvaldi (talk) 20:06, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eli Oudenryn

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. No evidence of notability. JTtheOG (talk) 18:58, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:32, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as probably too soon. Doesn't meet the criteria for notability NealeWellington (talk) 05:30, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete no significant coverage nor general notability provided. --Old-AgedKid (talk) 14:11, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Max Conway

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Article creator has been indef blocked for repeatedly creating non-notable articles; PROD removed by an IP now blocked as a sock. This is another example of a well-written but ultimately non-notable article - young footballer who fails WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 17:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Rather ho-hum career as the chart filled with zeros shows. I don't see notability; sources are simple match reports. Source 14 is probably the best, but it's not enough. Oaktree b (talk) 20:51, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Stats sites and WP:ROUTINE coverage don't do it. TarnishedPath^talk 12:03, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draft: May be WP:TOOSOON. Player now growing EFL appearances so possibly notable in the future. Paul W (talk) 16:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – The player may become notable in the medium term, but with the precedent of indiscriminate creation by a single contributor, deleting seems fair to me. Svartner (talk) 18:21, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep for me, sorry, but playing League Two can be enough for me, although weak, I see potential, [2], Govvy (talk) 08:20, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

William Fitzgerald (footballer, born 1999)

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Article creator has been indef blocked for repeatedly creating non-notable articles; PROD removed by an IP now blocked as a sock. This is another example of a well-written but ultimately non-notable article - semi-pro footballer who fails WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 17:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – The player may become notable in the medium term, but with the precedent of indiscriminate creation by a single contributor, deleting seems fair to me. Svartner (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ – He's a PROFESSIONAL footballer for Sligo and has been for a few years now, I'm Sligo fan and from the references it passes [WP:GNG]] as it's a footballers biography and ALL of the sources are reliable.2A06:5902:180C:5800:39BD:C997:94B6:8E85 12:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Sock struck. Giant Snowman 19:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Leaving out the fact that the creator of this article had several indiscriminate creations, this player does have a established career and seems notable. He had played in the top tier of Irish football (a fully professinal league) since 2017 with a total of more than 150 games. Furthermore, the player had also appeared and scored in UEFA Europa Conference League qualifiers. I think there should be references to make it passes WP:GNG.

Lâm (talk) 14:59, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then where are there? He is an active player, so should be internet news articles about him? Giant Snowman 19:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of WP:SIGCOV. Alvaldi (talk) 20:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Owen Lunt

AfDs for this article:

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Another example of a well-written but ultimately non-notable article - young footballer who fails WP:GNG. Creator has been indef blocked for repeatedly creating non-notable articles. Giant Snowman 14:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – The player may become notable in the medium term, but with the precedent of indiscriminate creation by a single contributor, deleting seems fair to me. Svartner (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draft However if there is already an article in draft space then delete. Govvy (talk) 08:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Patrick Gamble (footballer)

AfDs for this article:

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Another example of a well-written but ultimately non-notable article - young footballer who fails WP:GNG. Creator has been indef blocked for repeatedly creating non-notable articles. Giant Snowman 14:33, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – The player may become notable in the medium term, but with the precedent of indiscriminate creation by a single contributor, deleting seems fair to me.. Svartner (talk) 18:19, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dávid Petrík

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The article of this young Slovak men's footballer has been tagged for notability issues since April 2022. He played a total of 378 minutes in the Slovakia's highest league to date. In terms of reliable secondary sources, I only found passing mentions from squad list, such as Ref 1 and Ref 2). Considering that almost no Slovak clubs are well-known outside their countries, I don't see this article as a potential draft. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:37, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seyed Ali Mousavi Nour

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Fails notability, the whole article is about trying to sell his achievements as something important. never won a major senior medal. never even participated in a major event. his medal (if true) is just in youth level. Sports2021 (talk) 01:29, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No record of him competing at any adult tournament. Only success has come in youth categories, which has never been sufficient to show WP notability. Reports of team results do not constitute significant independent coverage. Fails to meet WP:GNG, WP:BIO, or any SNG. I also see the AfD notification on the article's page keeps getting removed by IP addresses. Papaursa (talk) 23:13, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In the sport of karate, unlike many other sports, there is no significant distinction between youth and adult competitions in terms of prestige and recognition. In fact, both youth and adult categories are considered to be on the same level, with no difference in the value and importance of their achievements. This is a point that is often not fully understood by those who lack expertise in karate. Many non-specialists and even some media outlets may assume that youth competitions are less significant than adult ones, whereas in reality, youth competitions in karate are held with the same level of difficulty and professionalism, and the medals earned in both categories hold equal prestige and value. This is especially true in major continental tournaments like the Asian Championships, which are organized under the authority of the World Karate Federation (WKF). The medals and achievements in these tournaments are recognized and recorded globally as significant accomplishments. These competitions are of the same caliber as adult events, and in many cases, athletes who win medals in the youth category quickly go on to achieve success on the international adult stage as well. This misunderstanding about the differences between age categories often leads to the undervaluation of athletes' achievements. However, from the perspective of experts and those deeply familiar with the structure of karate, it is clear that such successes, even in the youth categories, are by no means of lesser value compared to adult categories. This article, much like the article on Zohreh Barzegar, which highlights similar achievements in karate, should not be deleted. The value and significance of these accomplishments are comparable to those of other professional athletes whose articles remain on Wikipedia, and removing this article due to a lack of understanding of the sport’s structure would result in disregarding a legitimate and recognized achievement.InfoExplorer2023 (talk) 20:10, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

— InfoExplorer2023 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Delete fails notability WP:ATHLETE. The article is a mess with links to official, medal, team, gold medal. The only claim to notability is a medal at the 2021 Asian Championship which is not sufficient to support notability by itself. Mostly routine event coverage and doesn't meet WP:GNG. Lekkha Moun (talk) 16:09, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In defense of keeping the article, several key points need to be considered. Firstly, karate is a martial art with its own complexities, which may not be easily understood by everyone. Unlike more popular sports like football, karate requires specialized knowledge and experience to properly assess an athlete's achievements. In this case, the article may seem brief, but that doesn’t mean it's not valuable; rather, it's currently a stub article. According to Wikipedia's stub guidelines, this article has the potential to be expanded over time by editors who are knowledgeable in karate.Regarding notability, it's important to reference WP:ATHLETE. According to this guideline, sporting achievements at the international level are inherently notable and warrant the creation of a standalone article. Winning a medal at the 2021 Asian Championship is just one example of this athlete’s success, and it is significant enough to demonstrate their notability. WP:ATHLETE explicitly mentions that success in reputable international competitions is a valid criterion for notability. Additionally, from the perspective of WP:GNG (General Notability Guideline), the article includes reliable and credible sources that provide sufficient coverage to verify the athlete’s notability. The sources cited in the article go beyond just the medal at the Asian Championship and provide a broader context of the athlete’s career and accomplishments, which can be expanded upon as the article grows. Lastly, the argument about WP:TOOSOON should not be used as a reason for deletion. This athlete is already recognized on an international level, and deleting the article due to perceived premature coverage would only hinder the development of more information about them. Wikipedia is a platform meant to collect and expand knowledge, and this article not only meets the notability guidelines but also represents an opportunity for further improvement by editors with expertise in karate. Given these points, deleting the article would not only be a mistake but would also contradict Wikipedia’s own policies. The article adheres to the notability guidelines and should remain so that it can be further developed, allowing the athlete’s achievements to be fully documented over time.BookLover070 (talk) 18:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

— BookLover070 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

~~Keep~~ The issue of deleting certain sports articles, particularly regarding karate, requires careful and in-depth consideration. In this discipline, competitions and medals directly reflect the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. Karate, as a martial art, demands advanced techniques and high concentration, which can only be achieved through continuous practice and competition at the adult level.In karate, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are held in a professional and competitive manner. Winning a medal in Asian competitions, regardless of age, demonstrates the high abilities and skills of this athlete at an international level.Deleting these articles is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable from the perspective of the documentation and credibility of Wikipedia's sources. These articles can remain as reliable references in the field of karate and contribute to documenting the history and achievements of athletes.Therefore, based on my expertise in Wikipedia and the sport of karate, I firmly state that this article should be preserved to enhance the recognition of karate athletes' achievements and to document the history of this sport within Wikipedia.BookLover070 (talk) 19:22, 28 September 2024 (UTC) (striking duplicate vote, you can only cast one bolded vote. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:14, 29 September 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:13, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The subject doesn't seem to meet notability per the above arguments. They also seem to be an actor of sorts from what my attempt to find sources showed me, though none of the roles they have been involved in seem to be major, either.--Brocade River Poems (She/They) 02:32, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hadi Kiani

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Fails notability, never achieved anything important. the article tries to show him as a two time Asian Championship medalist but that's not in senior level. Sports2021 (talk) 01:26, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Non notable athlete. Fails sports notability and WP:GNG. Lekkha Moun (talk) 15:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Success at youth martial arts events does not show WP notability, nor does a current world rank of #550. Nothing that shows WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:MANOTE, or any other SNG is met. Papaursa (talk) 23:21, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In karate, unlike many other sports, there is no significant difference between the youth (under-21) and adult competitions in terms of credibility and status. In fact, both the youth and adult categories are evaluated at the same level, and there is no distinction in the value and importance of their achievements. This is often misunderstood by those who lack sufficient expertise in this sport. Many uninformed individuals, including some media outlets, may assume that youth competitions are less important than adult competitions. However, the reality is that youth competitions in karate are held with the same level of difficulty and seriousness, and the medals earned in both categories hold equal credibility and value.Particularly in prestigious continental events like the Asian Championships, which are overseen by the World Karate Federation (WKF), the medals are recognized as global successes. The quality of these competitions does not differ from that of adult competitions, and in many cases, athletes who achieve medals in the youth category quickly find remarkable success at the international adult level as well.This misunderstanding regarding the differences between age categories leads some individuals to fail to recognize the valuable achievements of athletes. However, from the perspective of experts and those who are deeply familiar with the structure of karate, such successes, even in the youth category, are by no means less significant than those in the adult category.Please advise users who lack sufficient knowledge about this sport not to remove templates or edit the article, as doing so only harms the integrity of information, such as that found on Wikipedia in English, and spreads misinformation about karate. Maintaining accuracy and reliability in the discourse surrounding this sport is essential.InfoExplorer2023 (talk) 20:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The issue of deleting certain sports articles, particularly regarding karate, requires careful and in-depth consideration. In this discipline, competitions and medals directly reflect the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. Karate, as a martial art, demands advanced techniques and high concentration, which can only be achieved through continuous practice and competition at the adult level.In karate, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are held in a professional and competitive manner. Winning a medal in Asian competitions, regardless of age, demonstrates the high abilities and skills of this athlete at an international level.Deleting these articles is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable from the perspective of the documentation and credibility of Wikipedia's sources. These articles can remain as reliable references in the field of karate and contribute to documenting the history and achievements of athletes.Therefore, based on my expertise in Wikipedia and the sport of karate, I firmly state that this article should be preserved to enhance the recognition of karate athletes' achievements and to document the history of this sport within Wikipedia.BookLover070 (talk) 19:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Just as any editor can participate in an AFD discussion, except for limited editing restrictions, any editor can edit any article. We don't test anyone's knowledge before permitting them to edit an article as the policies that govern all articles are the same.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amirreza Borzooei

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Fails notability, never won a major medal. the article shows he won 2 Asian Championships bronze medals but they were in youth and junior level, no senior medal yet. Sports2021 (talk) 01:21, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No indication of ever competing at a major (continental or world) event as an adult. Another competitor with youth continental championships that don't show WP notability. No evidence of meeting WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:MANOTE, or any other SNG. He finished second at one adult event and has a current world ranking of #53. He's young and has potential, but it's WP:TOOSOON to say he's WP notable. That currently requires a WP:CRYSTALBALL. Papaursa (talk) 23:33, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In the world of karate, one of the unique features is that competitions for youth and adults are regarded equally in terms of value and importance, with neither group having superiority over the other. Unlike many other sports that often view youth competitions as a preliminary stage, in karate, both age categories are judged by the same standards, and the achievements and medals of both groups hold equal significance. This reality may seem unfamiliar to those who are not fully acquainted with karate, and some individuals or media may mistakenly perceive that youth competitions are less important than those for adults. However, the truth is that youth competitions are held with similar challenges and difficulties as those for adults, and the medals earned at both levels are equally credible and valuable.For example, in prestigious events like the Asian Championships, which are organized under the auspices of the World Karate Federation (WKF), the medals won are recognized as international successes, and the quality of competition is in no way inferior to that of adult events. It is noteworthy that athletes who achieve medals in the youth category often quickly find success at the international adult level as well. These misconceptions about the value of achievements in different age categories can lead to misunderstandings. However, experts and those familiar with the structure and complexities of karate clearly understand that success in any age category—whether youth or adult—is equally important and significant, and one should not regard the value of one over the other as lesser.InfoExplorer2023 (talk) 20:21, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

— InfoExplorer2023 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Keep The issue of deleting certain sports articles, particularly regarding karate, requires careful and in-depth consideration. In this discipline, competitions and medals directly reflect the high level of skill and experience of the athletes. Karate, as a martial art, demands advanced techniques and high concentration, which can only be achieved through continuous practice and competition at the adult level.In karate, there is no separation between age categories, and all competitions are held in a professional and competitive manner. Winning a medal in Asian competitions, regardless of age, demonstrates the high abilities and skills of this athlete at an international level.Deleting these articles is not only incorrect but also unjustifiable from the perspective of the documentation and credibility of Wikipedia's sources. These articles can remain as reliable references in the field of karate and contribute to documenting the history and achievements of athletes.Therefore, based on my expertise in Wikipedia and the sport of karate, I firmly state that this article should be preserved to enhance the recognition of karate athletes' achievements and to document the history of this sport within Wikipedia.BookLover070 (talk) 19:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'd like to hear from some experienced editors. New editors, please refer to Wikipedia policy and describe how the sources that exist provide SIGCOV. This is required to establish notabiity, as Wikipedia judges it, not as it is understood in the world of Karate.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:10, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, far from meeting WP:SPORTCRIT. The claims made by "keepers" above are strange, and the article is also disingenuously fluffed-up with claims of pursuing "karate professionally" at the age of 7. Geschichte (talk) 08:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kang Khai Xing

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Fails NBAD and BLP Stvbastian (talk) 06:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Badminton, and Malaysia. Stvbastian (talk) 06:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Gunawan

AfDs for this article:

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Fails NBAD. Stvbastian (talk) 06:16, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Badminton, and Hong Kong. Stvbastian (talk) 06:16, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Addition: I have read the 1st nomination, but no one cares about this article. Better this article move to draft.Stvbastian (talk) 06:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:
People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
Sources
1. Ho, Kelly (2020-01-06). "Diocesan Boys' School student and badminton star Jason Gunawan follows in his father's footsteps". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "At some point, every athlete dreams of making it to the Olympics, but local badminton prodigy Jason Gunawan has had his heart set on competing at the sporting event since he was four years old. Jason, who celebrated his second consecutive win in the boys’ singles event at the All Hong Kong Schools Jing Ying Tournament last Monday, says he has been dreaming of Olympic glory ever since he watched Chinese player Lin Dan take gold at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. ... A love of badminton runs in Jason’s family. His father, a Chinese Indonesian, used to play for the Jakarta province team. As a child, Jason would head to the local sports centre with his father every Sunday to practise, eventually earning a spot on the Hong Kong junior team. He now trains 30 hours a week at the Hong Kong Sports Institute, but still finds time to practise with his dad, his biggest supporter."
2. Cheung, Ka-Wa 徐嘉華 (2024-05-25). "羽毛球｜由外圍賽打至8強止步吳英倫下月生日願望：今年闖入世界排名頭30" [Badminton｜ From qualifying to the top 8, Jason Gunawan's birthday wish next month: to break into the top 30 in the world this year]. Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "父母是印尼華僑的Jason，曾於2020年以最年輕球手（當時16歲）奪全港錦標賽男單冠軍，可惜一場疫情斷送足足3年的青少年比賽，直到2022年5月才開始由低（國際挑戰賽級別）打起，... Jason今年初繼續參加「國際挑戰賽」，亦遇到一些「超級300」的比賽，世界排名由年初105位到本月泰國公開賽（超級500）時是96位，他在該賽的16強，遇上世界排名第5的日本球星奈良岡功大，雙方拉鋸3局，港將只在決勝局輸「刁時」（21:11、 15:21、20:22)，世界排名升至本周的83位。"
  From Google Translate: "Jason, whose parents are Indonesian overseas Chinese, won the men's singles championship in the Hong Kong Championships in 2020 as the youngest golfer (16 years old at the time). Unfortunately, a pandemic ruined the youth competition for three full years, and it was not until May 2022 that it started. Starting from a low (International Challenge level),... Jason continued to participate in the "International Challenge" at the beginning of this year, and also encountered some "Super 300" competitions. His world ranking increased from 105th at the beginning of the year to this month's Thailand Open (Super 500). ) was ranked 96th at the time. In the top 16 of the tournament, he met Japanese star Kodai Naraoka, who was ranked fifth in the world. The two sides went back and forth for 3 games. The Hong Kong player only lost to "Diao Shi" in the decisive game (21:11, 15 :21, 20:22), the world ranking rose to 83rd this week."
3. Chan, Kin-wa (2020-11-15). "Jason Gunawan crowned youngest-ever Hong Kong men's badminton champion at 16". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Jason Gunawan became the youngest-ever men’s singles champion at the annual Hong Kong badminton championships at Kowloon Park Sports Centre on Sunday, thanks partly to his decision to turn to full-time training amid the pandemic. Just three months after cutting short his secondary school studies to pursue a full-time sporting career at the Sports Institute, the 16-year-old teenager reigned supreme in the three-game final against Chan Yin-chak, winning 21-19, 17-21, 21-13 to put himself in the record books."
4. Chan, Kin-wa (2020-12-01). "Young gun Jason Gunawan sets sights on winning Olympic gold for Hong Kong". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Outside of Hong Kong there is badminton legend Tony Gunawan, the 2000 Sydney Olympic men’s doubles champion of Indonesia. Here in Hong Kong there is 16-year-old Jason Gunawan, a fast-rising talent now setting his sights on becoming another Olympic gold-medal winner like his namesake. ... Gunawan will not be present in Tokyo either as he is still competing in junior events, but the 2024 Paris Games will be his first attempt at making the step up to Olympic level, with the Los Angeles Games four years later his major target for a medal. ... Born in Hong Kong with an Indonesian-Chinese father, Gunawan was destined to make a name in badminton before he was even born, he said."
5. Ng, Chia Yin (2024-05-24). "Jason: I thank coach Wong for helping me grow". The Star. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "Hong Kong’s rising star Jason Gunawan appreciated coach Wong Choong Hann’s role in the growth of his career after checking into the men’s singles quarter-finals in the Malaysian Masters. ... Jason, who will be turning 20 next month, is expecting a tougher job against world No. 19 Lu Guangzu of China next but looking forward to gaining invaluable experience."
6. Chiu, Tsz-chun 趙子晉 (2023-09-14). "羽毛球．香港賽｜李卓耀不敵基斯迪衛冕失敗　吳英倫力追世界距離" [Badminton: Hong Kong Open｜ Lee Cheuk Yiu Fails to Defend Title Against Kistkidis, Jason Gunawan Closes the Gap to World Rankings] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.
  The article notes: "吳英倫決勝局初段把握對方情緒不穩，多次放高波予甘克起板，Jason曾經領先5：2，甘克一度滑倒倒地。惟Jason體力有所下降，... 年僅19歲的吳英倫，以往主力出戰青年賽為主，就算越級挑戰成年組也是大多是國際挑戰賽級別，主場的香港賽是他生涯首個BWF 500分的賽事。"
  From Google Translate: "Jason Gunawan took advantage of his opponent's emotional instability in the early stage of the decisive game and sent high waves to Gan Ke several times. Jason once led 5:2, but Gan Ke once slipped and fell to the ground. But Jason's physical strength has declined... Jason Gunawan, who is only 19 years old, has mainly competed in youth competitions in the past. Even if he jumps to the adult group, most of them are international challenge competitions. The Hong Kong competition at home is his first BWF 500 in his career. points competition."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Jason Gunawan (traditional Chinese: 吳英倫; simplified Chinese: 吴英伦) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first two sources—the South China Morning Post and Sing Tao Daily articles—provide substantial coverage about the subject, which enable him to meet Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. The other sources also provide significant to less significant coverage about him (they discuss him in their headlines and cover biographical details about him in the article). The sources all contribute to notability because Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability." Cunard (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to solicit more opinions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Speedy keep per WP:CSK#1b. There is no new deletion rationale presented in this nomination compared to the previous one which was closed as keep. The sources cited by Cunard are literally identical to those listed in the previous nomination, and multiple Wikipedians have already reviewed and affirmed that these sources are sufficient to meet GNG. Deletion is not cleanup. I do not see a point to delete/drafity an article when numerous usable sources are already presented. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 14:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If the article should be keep, the statements and the sources should be move to Jason Gunawan wikipedia article. It is very uncomfortable to see the article with that statement: "Jason Gunawan is a Hong Kong badminton player." In other words, if i just look at the statement, there is nothing special about the subject. But, i still in my opinion to draft this article. Because it is too soon for a badminton player that did not meet NBAD. Stvbastian (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

John-Paul Tran

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WP:TOOSOON for an article at the moment. This article should wait until there is some actual WP:SIGCOV of the subject, who is still a child athlete. JTtheOG (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Martial arts, and California. JTtheOG (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Could not find any coverage besides a singular mention [3] (not including the 1 source on the article). Fails WP:NATHLETE. Sir MemeGod  21:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also support draftification per the nomination until Tran gets more coverage. Sir MemeGod  21:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No coverage found, and a long way from being a notable athlete for our purposes here. I don't even thing drafting would help, still a young competitor, not competing on the national level Oaktree b (talk) 23:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No significant independent coverage found. WP:MANOTE talks about notable artists need to be at least adult black belts, winning junior events has never been considered WP notable in MA. No reason to draftify this article. When he meets either WP:GNG or an SNG, the article will need to be rewritten then. According to coverage, this event had less than 200 competitors ages 5 to 17 competing in over 40 divisions. Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As per nom and Papaursa. WP:TOOSOON Lekkha Moun (talk) 10:06, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't Delete: I think its important to note that John-Paul Tran was recently featured on the front page of Nguoi-Viet news. The article (which is only available in Vietnamese) can be found here. In light of this it's clear that John-Paul has a substantial enough presence to have a Wikipedia article. Dima Nekhoroshyi (talk) 20:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't looked into anything else here, but I can confirm that this is significant coverage. -- asilvering (talk) 22:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cai Haojian

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played a couple of minutes in the Chinese Super League, as well as a loan in the third league. Sources are WP:ROUTINE and I don't see anything else that can help it pass. Geschichte (talk) 07:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:58, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep – Chinese sources (sports.sina.com.cn) demonstrate the minimum to establish WP:SIGCOV. Svartner (talk) 12:32, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 10:35, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Andy Dennehy

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Non-notable amateur sports person. In terms of WP:SPORTBASIC, the only coverage I can find is the stuff that I've added to the article. Most of which is not independent (like "listings" on personnel sheets of orgs with which the subject has a connection like these: [4][5][6]; Which, even if they were independent, are far from in-depth coverage). Or ROTM "match report" type passing mentions (like these: [7] [8]). In terms of WP:GNG, we barely have enough sources to establish even the sub-stub that we have. And certainly insufficient sources to expand any biographical information (DOB, place of birth, education, etc). A search in Irish news sources returns little to nothing. In the Irish Independent family of regional/national papers for example, all I can find are these two trivial passing mentions. Similar searches, in news sources like the Irish Examiner or Irish Times or RTE.ie, return nothing at all. Nothing. Not even trivial passing mentions. Notability is not established. Guliolopez (talk) 11:31, 17 September 2024 (UTC) Guliolopez (talk) 11:31, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. I know nothing about how significant American football is in Ireland. That said, being one of the initial inductees into the Hall of Fame for American football in Ireland suggests he was at a minimum a pretty big frog in a little pond. Cbl62 (talk) 20:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:48, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Major League Baseball career double plays as an outfielder leaders

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Tagged for notability over three months ago with no sourcing improvements since then. The article's references consist of an MLB rulebook which is a primary source and baseball-reference.com which is a stats database; neither count towards notability. At present, this article topic fails WP:NLIST, which requires in-depth significant coverage from independent reliable secondary sources that collate and discuss this list topic's entries together as a group or set to establish notability. A WP:BEFORE search came up empty; hence, delete. Left guide (talk) 10:29, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Lists of people, Baseball, and Lists. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:40, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Similar discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Major League Baseball career double plays as a right fielder leaders. Also, this is covered by Baseball Almanac and I'd imagine baseball-reference though I haven't seen a direct source. Conyo14 (talk) 03:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Conyo14: Are those sources secondary and WP:SIGCOV for this topic though? Mere statistical database entries don't count towards notability; the sources need to provide fleshed out prose and context directly about this list topic. Left guide (talk) 05:08, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not advocating for a !keep. Just merely pointing out the references that are to be pointed here. Baseball Almanac is considered reliable and covers the statistical aspect. Beyond that, I'd say each record is likely to house some WP:SIGCOV from the player article. However, the grouping may not suffice for deletion. Conyo14 (talk) 06:48, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Conyo14: Well can you please provide more specific usable links (the Baseball Almanac link you supplied comes up as an error without rendering anything meaningful) or quotes of the source material so they can be judged and examined by the community? I'm afraid your argument is WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES as of the present moment. Notability is demonstrated via evidence of sufficient source material, not the belief or assertion of such. WP:Articles for deletion/List of NBA career ejections leaders is a current example of evidence-based WP:NLIST notability being demonstrated in a similar context (sports stats list). Left guide (talk) 07:08, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh it did, let me fix the link. My argument is more like, "watch out". Conyo14 (talk) 18:07, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Conyo14: Yes, I was already aware of the bundled right-fielder AfD as someone who participated there. I was referring to this Baseball Almanac external link you provided, which incurs a 404-type error. Left guide (talk) 18:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One thing at a time, Left guide. Conyo14 (talk) 19:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Conyo14: Is this the Baseball Almanac source you've been alluding to? If so, it unfortunately doesn't contribute towards WP:NLIST for this particular topic. It has a table with a collection of random outfielder double play stats (not secondary or SIGCOV), and then a "Fast Facts" section at the bottom with secondary prose about three random factoids, but nothing about this list topic specifically. Left guide (talk) 20:41, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
👍🏻 Conyo14 (talk) 22:37, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Forgot to mention in the nom that the content within the article's two sources don't discuss this list topic at all. They're being used in WP:OR/WP:SYNTH fashion to verify tangential details. And this in the external links section is not secondary or SIGCOV; raw stats tables don't count towards notability. Left guide (talk) 07:47, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge all in set Why do all these lists need to have the top 100 players? I think a List of Major League Baseball career double plays leaders that had just the top 10 at each position may be reasonable and notable. Otherwise this is data cruft that should be deleted outright. Reywas92^Talk 02:01, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per Reywas92. I think top 10 by position is too narrow (I'd favor top 20 or 25 at each position), but the precise number can be sorted out in a talk page discussion (need not be resolved here). Cbl62 (talk) 22:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:38, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Left guide: I'm not !voting here because the nom is out of balance in my opinion. Would you consider bundling all of these:
If all of these were nominated for deletion or merger into a new List of Major League Baseball career double plays leaders article, I would support that. As it is, to only nom catcher, pitcher and outfielder is a no-go for me. Pasting this comment on the catcher, pitcher and outfielder AFDs. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 04:13, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, BX,

First it's too late to make this a bundled nomination. This has to happen at the beginning of an AFD discussion, not midway through. Second, a number of these articles are already being discussed in AFD discussions. They should appear as pink links. You can voice your opinions at these discussions. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I have commented at all that were nom'd. Don't have the pink thing installed tho. That's why I quasi-voted as a no-go for me. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 05:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, I didn't even know how many were involved. I would, if Left Guide were okay with it, withdrawing our respective noms to create one mega bundle. Conyo14 (talk) 05:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be the best way forward IMO. TYVM. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 06:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Conyo14 and BX: As Liz (an experienced regular AfD admin) says above, we're past the point of no return in withdrawing or bundling these even if we wanted to, since there are extant non-keep !votes from other community members in basically all of these. I actually plan to nominate the remaining "double plays by position" articles sometime soon, but it takes precious time to do a thorough good-faith WP:BEFORE search for each individual article to see if there's anything encyclopedically salvageable, and other commitments both on Wikipedia and in real life means the research can't always be easily done all at once. In any case, each nomination should be treated on its own merits. Left guide (talk) 09:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yang Song-guk

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Article fails WP:GNG. Redirect to 1966 World Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 00:43, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I saw the film The Game of Their Lives and it has sigcov on him. I kept a notebook with the content discussing him that I'll have to find. I believe one scene had a player saying something like 'here's [North Korean] newspaper headlines I kept on all of our players' – so it's clear that the players (especially the significant ones like Yang) had sigcov. Let me draftify and I'll turn it into something good. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:19, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify per above. Just realized from this that documentaries can count as sigcov, thanks! May be able to write some articles based on subjects covered in documentaries. seefooddiet (talk) 12:27, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:23, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - played at the World Cup, Olympics, and managed the national team?! Clearly notable. Giant Snowman 18:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep – Due to the lack of sources, the tendency is for it to be deleted, but in fact this seems to be one of the most relevant players in North Korea. Svartner (talk) 00:16, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Please provide a review of sources, if they don't provide notability, then perhaps draftification is the more realistic closure.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Felix Goddard

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Fails WP:GNG, no significant coverage, just stats/routine news. Giant Snowman 19:52, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 19:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s got significant coverage from what I can see. Stop pointlessly tagging pages for deletion - becoming quite pathetic now. 2A06:5902:180C:5800:59C9:B142:4513:9C80 (talk) 19:59, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stop editing from your IP, EnglishDude. Giant Snowman 17:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~. I see at least one example of WP:SIGCOV in a reliable source (Straits Times - ironically it's from the very beginning of his career) and that's enough combined with other coverage for a WP:NSPORT pass. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One source is not enough. Giant Snowman 17:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is for WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 17:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect - it says that "an athlete is likely to have received significant coverage in multiple secondary sources" (my emphasis). Giant Snowman 18:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources. Meeting this requirement alone does not indicate notability, but it does indicate that there are likely sufficient sources to merit a stand-alone article." Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:54, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"at least one" - and that even doing that "does not indicate notability". Giant Snowman 20:38, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Singapore, Germany, Ireland, and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:40, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Not seeing enough coverage. One article from the Strait Times mentioned above is not enough. Simione001 (talk) 00:46, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NSPORT is a little looser than WP:GNG. Unlike with GNG, "Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources." Combine the one article with the extensive non-SIGCOV available, it's a pass on the SNG. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:36, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dclemens1971, a WP:NSPORT pass isn't enough for AfD. See Q2 in the FAQ section. -- asilvering (talk) 21:51, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've missed that question up entirely up to this point. (And Q1 notwithstanding, I don't fully understand why we have SNGs for sports at all if everything ultimately has to come back to GNG.) Delete. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Sufficiently referenced to pass in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 14:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As above, only one source has currently been found with SIGCOV. That is not enough to pass GNG. Sources must be multiple. Have you found any others? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:57, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's a disagreement among participating editors here on how to read WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But the !vote says this passes GNG, which is incorrect. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:06, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The Lancashire Telegraph articles are a RS. I found this [9] and [10], should be enough for an article, in addition to what's in the article now for sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 23:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I reviewed those early on. The Irish Independent is just a long set of quotes from Goddard's manager with no actual reporting; I don't think it counts as independent SIGCOV. The Telegraph article is WP:ROUTINE transfer coverage. Dclemens1971 (talk) 23:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
transfer coverage that's about the player, still counts Oaktree b (talk) 03:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, standard transfer coverage is definitely classed as WP:ROUTINE. Giant Snowman 17:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Agree that the Lancashire Telegraph article is WP:ROUTINE. This is a football player for a professional club. If this player is notable, then all club players are notable. Could well be WP:TOOSOON in that the player could become notable in the future but there is no way to know that. Does not currently meet GNG Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:54, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was draftify‎. ✗plicit 11:04, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tobiáš Diviš

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I cannot find any evidence of notability for this Slovak men's footballer to meet WP:GNG. He only played 48 matches in lower leagues. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: The correct facts are 23 matches in Slovakia's highest league and 30 in the second league. Geschichte (talk) 21:20, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify – As WP:ATD. Svartner (talk) 14:47, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Draftify or delete?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 12:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify: While they don't seem notable at the moment, they could 100% have coverage around them in the future. Article seems in okay shape, so I'd rather move it to draftspace where it can be worked on rather that a flat-out deletion. Sir MemeGod  17:19, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article is nominated for deletion by the base it fails WP:GNG. References are poorly-formatted too. I don't think Diviš will gain any significant coverage in the future, since the clubs he has played for are certainly not well-known outside Slovakia, but of course we won't make WP:CRYSTALBALL predictions. In its current state, the article is written like a database or directory and does not contain anything about what Diviš accomplished to prove that he deserves a Wikipedia article. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:45, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The clubs don't need to be well-known outside of Slovakia. We only need reliable sources from within Slovakia. Being notable in one location is enough for an entry in the English Wikipedia. How the references are formatted is not a reason for deletion. Geschichte (talk) 07:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per above. Active first-tier player who has also made his U21 international debut, there is coverage at the moment but not significant enough yet. I am also bewildered by some of the statements by the nominator. Geschichte (talk) 07:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Jorge Pan

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There doesn't seem to be significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources. toweli (talk) 08:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Procedural close‎. The nominator failed to tag the article or inform the article creator about this discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:28, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hassan El Belghiti

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Delete or Redirect to List of world championships medalists in powerlifting (men). Only has two articles sourced, both by BarBend. Anybody who competes in powerlifting (local or international) can be included to All Powerlifting and Open Powerlifting. ViciousViper47 (talk) 03:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 15. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 04:06, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Procedural close‎. The nominator failed to tag the article or inform the article creator about this discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Panagiotis Tarinidis

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Delete or Redirect to List of world championships medalists in powerlifting (men). Only four sourced articles talk about Tarinidis's achievements. Anybody who competes in powerlifting (local or international) can be included to All Powerlifting and Open Powerlifting. I'm skeptical if only four articles are good enough for an article. ViciousViper47 (talk) 03:49, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Jamal Abdi Hassan

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Non-notable. Only sources are entries in tables showing the individual participated in the Olympics. Marcus Markup (talk) 19:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Unable to find any WP:SIGCOV that could be used to help this subject, one of the many WP:LUGSTUBS overfilling this site still, meet the WP:GNG. Unfortunately, I don't see a clear redirect target. Let'srun (talk) 13:31, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Runner is a multiple-time international gold medallist satisfying WP:NATH and he has been covered in print media under his Arabic name "جمال عبدي حسن". A lot of print media from his era hasn't been digitized, but there are some remnants of prose online i.e. from Al Jazeera. He also had a viral moment falling on the water jump at the '96 Olympics which caused him to not make the finals. I don't have the text yet (working on it), but I know for a fact that infamous fall was covered in a The Times issue (transcribed in a news stream here) so that's another avenue for sourcing. Based on WP:NEXISTS, I think enough breadcrumbs are here to justify keeping the article with some work. --Habst (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. WP:NATH is definitely not satisfied in the absence of any IRS SIGCOV sources. The Al Jazeera source above has all of one sentence on him in a list of event results, and categorically does not count towards notability. In the 5000m race, Qatari Jamal Abdi Hassan Abdullah came in seventh with a time of 13.04.65. Moroccans Salah Hissou and Abdel Rahim Al-Ghomri came in eleventh and sixteenth with a time of 13.16.87 and 13.36.08 respectively.
We have zero indication that anything in The Times is non-routine SIGCOV, or even anything beyond a photo caption. JoelleJay (talk) 23:22, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, WP:NATH is definitely not satisfied in the absence of any IRS SIGCOV sources -- can you please provide a policy source that states this? It's definitely not supported by the text of NATH or the WP:NSPORTS2022 consensus on this issue. WP:NEXISTS is a valid policy to cite in this context while we work to comb through print media from the 1990s. --Habst (talk) 13:18, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How many times do people have to explain to you that meeting SPORTCRIT is required for an athlete to meet NSPORT? You can meet a sport-specific sub-criterion via achievement, but you still have to meet NSPORT for any presumptions of coverage to apply. JoelleJay (talk) 20:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, I greatly respect your contributions here and hope you can extend the same respect to me. I think that WP:NATH and WP:SPORTCRIT are two separate parts of NSPORT without a clearly defined relationship to each other. Prong 2 of NATH is clearly met here by the subject's multiple international medals in distance running. To say that NATH isn't satisfied despite that simply isn't supported by the policy.

Also, NSPORT is only a guideline along with other more established guidelines such as WP:NEXISTS. If we can determine together that coverage exists of this athlete meeting the bar for notability, a keep vote would be justified. --Habst (talk) 13:27, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I misread "NATH" as a synonym for "NSPORT". But regardless, all sport-specific criteria are subordinate to the overarching requirements at SPORTCRIT. Otherwise SPORTCRIT #5 would make no sense and the robust consensus at NSPORT2022 would be functionally ignored. JoelleJay (talk) 21:18, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, if a consensus is functionally ignored, then that means it's not actually a consensus. I don't think your description of NSPORTS2022 matches the text of the summary, which says, There is a general consensus that the NSPORTS guideline still has broad community support, which includes WP:NATH as a part of NSPORTS. Speaking of subordination, all of NSPORTS is subordinate to broader guidelines like WP:GNG and WP:NEXISTS, so if we can fulfill those, there is no need to fulfill SPORTCRIT.

If we delete this article, my understanding is we would effectively be saying that Abdi Hassan is the only steeplechase Olympian since 1924 to have not met the notability guidelines. I'm not ruling out that it's possible, but it certainly deserves more effort than we have put in so far. For example, prompted by the below comment I looked at the page history and found several alternative names for the subject we can use as leads for name-searching. --Habst (talk) 13:30, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The consensus has been observed in literally thousands of AfDs by this point. Only a very small cohort of editors ignore it or are ignorant of it. Your understanding of PAGs is clearly at odds with the rest of the community's. JoelleJay (talk) 22:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, my views are consistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines which I strive to follow. If you have a particular issue, please cite the policy or guideline which you think I misinterpreted and we can discuss it. As I said before, I greatly respect your work and viewpoints here, and I hope that we can converse respectfully without resorting to personal comments. --Habst (talk) 23:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are claiming that a recent strong global consensus to require citing a GNG-contributing source in all athlete biographies is invalid because the same discussion didn't find a consensus to deprecate the entirety of NSPORT, and therefore its pre-RfC guidance is still in effect. As if following (your misreading of) one of the sub-outcomes of that RfC moots all of the findings of consensus for change in the same closing statement, all the subsequent consensuses at NSPORT for implementing those changes, and all the thousands of AfDs and major followup RfCs like LUGSTUBS 1 & 2 enforcing those changes.
Stop wasting people's time with this trolling. JoelleJay (talk) 00:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, I'm following my understanding of the consensus. a recent strong global consensus to require citing a GNG-contributing source in all athlete biographies -- that's not what the consensus was, per Special:Diff/1246440039, an athlete biography could still be kept even if it doesn't cite a GNG-contributing source as long as it fulfills broader policies like WP:NEXISTS. This is a direct quote from the person who established SPORTCRIT: SPORTBASIC #5 was never intended, nor should it be misused, to trump or overrule the more general, overarching rule.

I still appreciate your contributions to the encyclopedia which we are both here to build. Your last comment was unnecessary. --Habst (talk) 12:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...You're quoting one of the editors who most vehemently opposed NSPORT2022, repeatedly tried to stifle its implementation, and was cautioned at ANI for enlisting others to ignore SPORTCRIT #5, as if his opinion reflects any kind of consensus. And anyway we have the creator of SPORTCRIT #5 also saying in the same discussion that Such circumstances are very rare, and I've only come across one circumstance in the past two years (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Vehmeier) where I concluded that it was appropriately applied. That is far from the application of NBASIC you have been attempting so you should interpret #5 as overriding it.
If you're going to keep making utterly nonsensical claims about NSPORT I'm going to continue calling them out. JoelleJay (talk) 01:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks for this information. Can you please link to the ANI archive where Cbl62 was cautioned to for enlisting others to ignore SPORTCRIT prong 5? I tried searching and couldn't find it. I also searched for your quote ("Such circumstances...") at both WP:Articles for deletion/Esraa Owis and WP:Articles for deletion/John Vehmeier and couldn't find it.

Regardless, when I use WP:NEXISTS I assure you it's based in policy and made in good faith. If you disagree with the sources existing, please make claims to that effect. Broad guidelines like GNG and NEXISTS are not invalidated just because there is some smaller subject-specific guideline on Wikipedia. --Habst (talk) 13:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not Cbl62. I guess "warning" isn't the right term given its more specific meanings here, but certainly cautioned: BeanieFan11 should still be well aware that that warning did enjoy significant support and the consensus may be more clear if this comes up again.
NEXISTS doesn't mean you can just assume coverage exists merely because the subject meets your arbitrary presumptive standards. JoelleJay (talk) 23:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're quoting one of the editors who most vehemently opposed NSPORT2022 ... [who] was cautioned at ANI for enlisting others to ignore SPORTCRIT #5 – FWIW, there was no warning given at that ANI, which resulted in no consensus. You also enlisted that argument at the Vehmeier AFD; as an admin said there, There was no consensus to warn anyone at ANI and you should strike the comment as incorrect. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:55, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I should have used "cautioned". I forget "warning" has a specific meaning here. JoelleJay (talk) 23:33, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am the son of Jamal Abdi. I keep editing this wiki page because of some information. It has come to my attention that the page is in threat of deletion, I would greatly appreciate it if we don’t decide to delete it. 78.101.160.239 (talk) 09:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC) Copied from talk page. Geschichte (talk) 09:29, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Donald MacMillan (rugby union)

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No sources, and seems to have no real notability. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 02:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Known as "Ian" rather than Donald, which may assist your searches. Plenty of coverage on Trove and I've added some of them to the page. Got more results for the typo "Mc"Millan.[11] Jevansen (talk) 23:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: It would be helpful to have a review of the new content additions. Also, please do not move an article that is the subject of an AFD discussion during the AFD. It confuses our editing tool, XFDcloser which doesn't understand why the article is at a different name.
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Thank you. Was not aware of this. Jevansen (talk) Jevansen (talk) 07:12, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Per the new sources add, meets NSPORT. GMH Melbourne (talk) 01:09, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Jong-min (footballer, born 1947)

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 00:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete also lack of WP:SIGCOV. Xegma(talk) 17:53, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep - played at the Olympics and managed the national team, clearly notable - needs improving, not deleting. Giant Snowman 20:24, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and Improve per GiantSnowman. Hansen Sebastian (Talk) 18:33, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep and improve as per above

Lâm (talk) 18:39, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: as per GiantSnowman. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 ^{[𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺]} 13:10, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per GiantSnowman has played in the Olympics and managed the national team.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:47, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting. Clear consensus to Keep but it's not clear that sources verify content and establish GNG. This is the second relisting comment on this subject so if they do, please state that rather than give a "per" statement.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:13, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~: I'm failing to see the notability here. The references provided are just profiles and clearly doesn't have any SIGCOV. I'm not convinced of the established notability comment per GiantSnowman. Taking part in Olympics doesn't warranty any notability, if there aren't any sources backing it up. My search results also turned out nil and clearly no SIGCOV or GNG met. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 09:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After reading through BF11's comment, it's evidence some notability might be present in the North Korean sources. I'm okay with a draftify too. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 17:22, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is clearly one of the examples were requiring strict SIGCOV compliance is patently absurd. Where on earth are we supposed to go to find North Korean newspaper archives? I can only note that in a scene in the film The Game of Their Lives (regarding the 1966 North Korean team), one North Korean player showed a book full of newspaper headlines for the top players with the national team – so it is obvious that the sport was very well-covered at the time and I don't see why a few years later would have been any different. Another way to notability would be WP:ANYBIO if Kim received any of the top honors in North Korea, which would be either Merited Athlete or People's Athlete. Looking up his name (김정민) in relation to the title Merited Athlete (공훈체육인) I get results including a piece from the Minju Choson stating in the preview "화원1동에 입사한 만경대구역상하수도관리소의 김정민，량은향 로동자부부 ... 공훈체육인칭호가 수여되였다． 로력훈장이 1명에게，국기훈장 제2급이 18명 . [Kim Jong-min and Ryang-hyang, workers of the Mangyongdae District Waterworks Management Office in Hwawon 1-dong, were awarded the title of Meritorious Sportsman.]" – I have a strong feeling this was him (esp. given that we have no other North Korean 'Kim Jong-min's) but I receive warning messages when entering the site so I can't look further. Searching his name in relation to the 'Mangyondae District Waterworks Management Office' ("입사한 만경대구역상하수도관리소" "김정민") brings up another piece from the Rodong Sinmun further discussing 'Kim Jong-min and Ryang-hyang' ("화원1동에 입사한 만경대구역상하수도관리소의 김정민, 량은향 로동자부부는 현대적인 살림집을 받아안고보니 우리 원수님의 은덕이 너무도 크고 ... [Kim Jong-min and Ryang-hyang, workers of the Mangyongdae District Waterworks Management Office in Hwawon 1-dong, received a modern house and realized that the grace of our Marshal was so great...]") but likewise I cannot access it further. IMO I'd like to keep this given how accomplished he is and how ridiculous it is to find North Korean newspaper sources. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:55, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify: I agree with BeanieFan11's argument - proving WP:GNG for a North Korean would be extremely difficult. At the same time, the article gives very little information about the subject and needs improving. It makes sense to draftify and find sources to add to it so that it can be more useful to readers.DesiMoore (talk) 16:06, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd support that outcome and would expand it when I get the chance. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:35, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Bray

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Fails WP:NACTOR because he’s only appeared in one film. The Film Creator (talk) 22:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – not at all relevant or useful, low quality article. Alon9393 (talk) 16:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Unable to find any WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR is not met here either. Let'srun (talk) 14:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m not going to !vote, but I must add that I saw the solo film he starred in and it’s gloriously bad, a true bomb that is a cult classic. Bearian (talk) 01:29, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - @Let'srun - A very simple Google search shows multiple scans of articles that were written about him. What kind of search were you doing that missed all of those? See: 1, 2 and 3. KatoKungLee (talk) 14:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I don't feel like these articles are suitable for meeting the GNG as they are merely either very short profiles lacking WP:SIGCOV or puff pieces talking about his hobbies rather than his career. Let'srun (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: can only fail WP:NACTOR as he played in only one film. But meets the general requirements for notability, see article and sources mentioned during the course of this discussion. Thank you. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 19:59, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources do you feel meet the GNG? Let'srun (talk) 01:04, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: I'm doubtful that the sources presented above qualify as reliable independent secondary coverage. They mostly read like advertorials or native advertising of some sort. For example, the very end of the source with by far the most coverage says
Do you fit the bill? Maybe you can be the girl who changes Jim's isolationist life style? If you think so, maybe it would help to write Jim and tell him how you feel! We know he would love to hear from you! You can write to him at this address:
Jim Bray
c/o Compass International Pictures
9229 Sunset Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA. 90069
We can't just indiscriminately throw links at an AfD and call it a day. Left guide (talk) 08:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joshua Beckley

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to 2015 World Series of Poker: Subject only has notable coverage due to WP:1E, and without any additional RS covering him this should be redirected as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 21:11, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Other second-place finishers in the Main Event has qualified as notable (see f.e Steven Jones) and Beckley is atleast as notable as them. PsychoticIncall (talk) 08:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: No consensus yet. Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 19:34, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kristian P. Lusardi

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:CRIMINAL. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Crime, and North Carolina. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Move~~ to Christian Lusardi and leave a redirect. More sources available when you search for his "other" name - Christian Lusardi. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC) (I'm striking your duplicate vote as I assume the most recent one is your current opinion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC))[reply]

PsychoticIncall, "Move" is not a possible AFD closure as it is an editing decision. If you are interested in that outcome, you have to vote to "Keep" and then have a Move discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Plenty of sources at his "other" name. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:07, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 11:44, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]