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Question about large plot/character additions to Battle Tendency

An IP editor insists on adding a large character list and lengthening the plot summary beyond what could be considered reasonable. I have reverted it twice, but I would not be surprised if the IP editor does it once more. What can I do if that happens? It's not directly vandalism, so I'd be uncomfortable with reverting too many times, but it's still clearly against MOS. Is page protection an option?--IDV^talk 00:36, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

I notice that OuendanL re-added the lengthy character list and plot summary while only mentioning MOS:MANGA#Characters in their edit summary. OuendanL, could you explain what you mean by this? The page says:

• "For shorter or simpler series, it is often possible to avoid the need for a character section by crafting the plot description such that it introduces all significant characters. Where possible, this is the preferred method, as prose reads more professionally than lists" and
• "If the character section grows long, please reconsider the amount of detail or number of characters included."

The section you link to doesn't mention plot summaries, but the one above says "This should comprise a succinct description of the plot and major subplots, but please avoid excessive details of twists and turns in the story". If you have suggestions for improving the character/setting section or the plot summary, that's great, but your current revision goes against the MOS.--IDV^talk 01:56, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm with IDV's side but shouldn't this be discussed in the Jojo article? Also, shouldn't the parts have reception and creation info like Holmes no Mokushiroku?Tintor2 (talk) 03:01, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

The reason I started the thread here was that I haven't seen many other editors edit BT, and wanted to make sure that others see it. And yes - I have listed some refideas on the article's talk page, which I intend to write a reception section using, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.--IDV^talk 06:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

• Does anyone else want to comment on this? It would be helpful to be able to refer back to a clear consensus for my changes (despite them already being supported by the MOS) when I shrink overly long character lists and plot summaries, in Battle Tendency and in other similar articles.--IDV^talk 01:21, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

I prefer the way it is now. Battle Tendency is just a name given to a certain arc of the series, the entire manga is called JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. I view the series as a special case based on its length and the way its naturally "split up", it seems many other editors before my time agreed, hence why each arc was given its own article in the first place instead of having a single huge article. Instead of going even further and giving each arc their own List of chapters article, List of characters article etc., one big article for each arc is clearly a better way in my view.

That being said the other arcs' articles are way too big. A couple years ago I went through most of them and trimmed them down, but since then one editor who is no longer active on Wikipedia went through adding large amounts of minor details and fancruft. Such as three different sets of chapters for Stardust_Crusaders#Chapters and two for each other arc. Xfansd (talk) 01:52, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I think you are talking about something else - we are not discussing splitting the article, just about trimming down excessive fictional details (making a concise plot summary rather than a lengthy and too detailed one, and a section that talks about characters in prose rather than a long list that includes even minor characters). Basically: My revision or the one the IP user and OuendanL want to use.--IDV^talk 02:21, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

"For shorter or simpler series, it is often possible to avoid the need for a character section by crafting the plot description such that it introduces all significant characters", JoJo being the seventh biggest manga series ever doesn't fit that description. You're the one who split it into List of Battle Tendency chapters therefore I read "when I shrink overly long character lists and plot summaries, in Battle Tendency and in other similar articles." as meaning you plan do split the other arcs as well. Xfansd (talk) 02:39, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Battle Tendency is its own sub-series with its own article, so I don't see how the overall JoJo series' length and "complexity" (only due to consisting of several parts with their own stories) is relevant here. Battle Tendency really isn't a complex story, and very few of the characters actually matter: Joseph, Caesar, Lisa Lisa and the Pillar Men, yes, and Stroheim to some degree, but the rest barely need to be mentioned outside of specific plot points about them (Joseph marries Lisa Lisa's assistant Suzi Q, which should be mentioned, but that's all you only really need to say about her). I wasn't specifically referring to other JoJo articles, but was talking about limiting excessive plot detail in manga/anime articles in general.--IDV^talk 03:28, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

You can trim it down to the most essential characters, the ones that get profiles at the front of each manga volume. You can also remove any unsourced material. The common characters with the franchise can be listed at List of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure characters. As for plot, I would shorten it down to a paragraph or two, using articles such as Attack on Titan as an example. The details should go in the chapters/volumes list. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:24, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Template:Infobox animanga/MediaMix at TfD

The purpose of this template is unclear. Any input will be welcome at its TfD entry. Thanks. —PC-XT+ 22:02, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

List of Yu-Gi-Oh! Arc-V episodes (season 3)

There is been several attempts to add unsourced episode titles and air dates for future episodes to List of Yu-Gi-Oh! Arc-V episodes (season 3). The main individual Kaido of the Beasts has previously been blocked for sockpuppetry before using IPs and is apparently doing so again. —Farix (t | c) 20:28, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Move request at Kodansha Comics USA

I've started a move request at Talk:Kodansha Comics USA#Requested move 12 July 2016. —Farix (t | c) 13:08, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

List of La storia della Arcana Famiglia episodes proposed deletion

This page is better to be deleted and the episode list should be redirected to its main page. I already copied and pasted the episode list there, and I am currently in the process of condensing the terribly long summaries. AnimeEditor (communicator • database) 5:29, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

I approve strongly of this action, and hope that you can condense the episode descriptions well. The Proposed Deletion guideline may be what you want to follow when deleting this article. ~Mable (chat) 10:12, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, I will use the guideline. AnimeEditor (communicator • database) 16:13, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

The proposed deletion went through earlier today. This is just to update you on that. AnimeEditor (communicator • database) 2:06, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I completely forgot about the idea of redirecting the page. That works too, I suppose ^_^; ~Mable (chat) 05:55, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

I had to condense the first half and lengthen the second half, and add an episode summary for the OVA. I did the best I could to include as much information without being too elaborate, which was the case with the first half of the list. Imagine cutting nineteen lines down to twelve lines! That took a lot of editing skills! AnimeEditor (communicator • database) 6:23, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Logos and title screen images in Infoboxes

The last few days, I've replaced a couple of logo or title screen images with cover images, either of a DVD/Blu-ray or manga cover. The reason for this is because logos and title screens changes between the Japanese and English release and does not actually serve to identify the subject. I was wondering if there is wider support to located the most obvious cases (based on image name) and replace them with a proper identifying image of a DVD/Blu-ray or manga cover. —Farix (t | c) 01:16, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

I think the cover of the first manga or video release is good. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:25, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't think the manga cover makes sense for something like Yugioh Arc V since that was was an adaption of the anime. In a case like this a DVD cover would make more sense.--174.91.187.80 (talk) 21:22, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Sure, for something that doesn't have a manga cover, or where the manga was released after the anime. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:18, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

I used to include logos in the infobox years ago before it stopped being common practice (I found these in my contribs): Allison & Lillia, Blue Drop, Mnymosyne, Sakura no Uta, Kimi ga Aruji de Shitsuji ga Ore de, Murder Princess, Dennō Coil, Tōka Gettan, Saint October, Mamoru-kun ni Megami no Shukufuku o!, Tokimeki Memorial Only Love and Coyote Ragtime Show. There were also some others I did back then where I put character art into the infobox (if these count): Kimi no Kakera, Akane Maniax, Love Get Chu (my first article!), Tsuyokiss, Princess Princess and Gekiganger III. And although I didn't upload it: Kannazuki no Miko.--十八 22:43, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

• What would be a good category name for the cleanup check? Currently, we have Category:Wikipedia requested images of anime and manga and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of anime and manga. I could dump the requests into the first category, since it is smaller and more easily to find things. The latter category already as 1,100 articles. —Farix (t | c) 22:57, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
  • I think those two cats ought to be combined. They are for the same thing. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:37, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
• Found some more: Haibane Renmei, Gunslinger Stratos, Girls Beyond the Wasteland, Ghost Hound, Glass Maiden, Lovely Idol, Kokoro Library, Diabolik Lovers, Occult Academy, Bikini Warriors, Akihabara@Deep, Viper's Creed, To Heart, Wind: A Breath of Heart, Sister Princess, Un-Go, Uta Kata, El-Hazard.--十八 03:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Anime related pages

I think it is unfair when some anime characters like Rukia Kuchiki of Bleach get an article,but characters like N.Italy of Hetalia just get redirected to the series page.Is it ok for this project if i turn Feliciano Vargas (N.Italy) into a full article.He is the main character after all. KaptaşHero (talk) 18:45, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Life isn't fair. Seriously though I wish we could have more character articles but without out of universe coverage it becomes hard. As it was with Himari Noihara, getting information like reception, and conception is a hard find. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:52, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Rukia Kuchiki has an article because there is extensive information about her creation and concept as well as received critical commentary from several reliable sources, thus making her notable. Can you say the same for Italy in Hetalia? —Farix (t | c) 18:56, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

A-lot of people I feel would love to see their favorite characters have articles here on Wikipedia. If you look at western cartoons though, series like Arthur for example don't even have separate character articles. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:00, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Ok,you win Farix, But there are resources about this. KaptaşHero (talk) 09:46, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

It's not about winning. There is a notability guideline. However, if there is sufficient resources providing commentary, creation, development, and similar for an article about Hetalia's North Italy, myself, or perhaps another editor, will be willing to help you create the article out of them. It's simply a matter of finding that material. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 14:21, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Usage of voice actors

The article List of Naruto characters (one of our few characters FLs) has had a massive change in how the voice actors are written. While it helps to reduce the weight, it seems a bit repetitive. Any ideas? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 23:26, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

There is {{voiced by2}} if you prefer a sentence format. However, neither template is good for complex situations where there are multiple voice actors for a given language. —Farix (t | c) 23:39, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

As far as I am aware there is no "standard voice acting setup" as @Mumbai0618: claims. I would revert the edits if you want. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

I've reverted. I thought for a moment that List of Naruto characters used a sentence format, but chocked it up to my bad memory. But formats should not be switched without a consensus born from discussion. —Farix (t | c) 23:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Also reverted an attempt to remove plot details from List of Code Geass characters on the pretense that they were "spoilers".[1] Now that I look at his edit history, this is they guy that was repeatedly adding a bunch of voice roles on My Hero Academia without sources and thought that WP:V and WP:BLP shouldn't apply to them. S/he even went as far as to falsely attributed a source to support roles that were listed in the source. (@SephyTheThird:) —Farix (t | c) 23:54, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

I would send a report over to WP:ANI or ping an admin with evidence. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:58, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Don't think it at the level of an actionable stage. Better allow more rope on this one. —Farix (t | c) 00:06, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

One thing about the Naruto Characters article is until the 6th the voice actors were listed in a compleyely different format. They were listed at thd bottom of each entry as a sentence until 2601:2C6:4004:323A:601D:B70F:7ACE:E0E4 changed all of the entries to what they called the regular format.--174.91.187.80 (talk) 01:47, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

In my experience, it is preferable to list voice actors at the end in a sentence. It allows for greater ability to explain special situations, i.e. as a child, from season two onward. In my experience also, in the case of other kinds of media, say television adaptations of books, this is how it's done also. The generalized preference and, if I may be so bold to assert is, but to use the same language, the regular format is actually probably more the previously used sentence form at the end of each section. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 02:52, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

I would never have caught it had I not already jumped in to fix the bad attempt they had made to source the actors as a whole. Which despite me putting in place the system they kept filling out as raw urls. Their edits as a whole are the type that have to be checked anyway, but they keep bringing them to our attention at the same time.SephyTheThird (talk) 10:09, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Everybody calm down. I have been trying to get the voice actors into that certain format because the majority of anime character lists are organized this way (the only ones I can recall having a sentence format are Baccano and Attack on Titan). Unlike what TheFarix apparently thinks, I have NOT been trolling; all of my edits that I have ever done have been done in good faith. As SephyTheThird can attest, the My Hero Academia example was because of various misunderstandings, the first being that it was not me who left those actors unsourced initially, the second being that most voice actors are left unsourced on other pages, and the third being that I did not properly review the sources; all of this has been corrected, and I now take the time to make sure this does not happen again. At any rate, when I changed the Main Characters section to {{voiced by}}, there were no complaints, and I even kept the references; in fact, they are still in that format (the Attack on Titan page also has a few sections in that format, but is mostly done in sentences). If you guys wish to keep it in sentence format, then I am okay with that. I do admit I should have brought this to the Talk page beforehand, but there's no reason to call me a troll. As for the Code Geass example, the edit done to Suzaku Kururugi's section was not only spoiler-filled, but also had an advertising diction to it, which we are entirely against.Mumbai0618 (talk) 17:30, 16 July 2016 (UTC)Mumbai0618

The biggest point to clear up is that per WP:Spoiler content should not be removed because of spoilers. Largely because everyone's definition of spoilers is different and also because articles should cover all of their subject and limiting info behind "spoilers" goes against that. It's upto the reader to use their own discretion, which is why I avoid sections likely to contain spoilers even if I watch a page for vandalism when I am not "upto date". Leaving that aside, I agree that your edits are not malicious as such, but you do seem to be slow to learn. I can understand the learning process can be complicated to start with so I suggest you just slow down. Ask questions. Watch how other people edit pages. You have a habit of appearing in the wrong places more than the right ones. It's especially important to realise that different pages can do things different ways for many reasons. Sometimes it's just because they haven't been improved, sometimes a page has it's own specific needs. Learning which is the right way to go is important. May I suggest that rather than editing character sections, you edit some other type of content for a while? Adding reviews to reception is probably a better way to improve many articles than the character section and they easier to do.SephyTheThird (talk) 18:12, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

That reminds me. I need to finish cleaning up the Attack on Titan characters list. The original point of placing them at the end of the section is to emphasize that the characters were not anime-created characters so they are not highly defined by their voice actors. For shows where the anime or video game comes out first or at the same time as the manga, the voice acting listing makes sense, but not for ones where it is adapted from a long-running manga or if it has complications with mulitple casts and spellings such as with One Piece and Naruto. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:38, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Crunchyroll and Hulu for air dates

Just a heads up. I came across two episode lists that cited either Crunchyroll or Hulu for the original Japanese air date. However, there is a problem with using these two streaming websites to verify dates. First is that the dates, especially on Crunchyroll, only reflect when the episodes are made released for streaming, which is after the episode airs in Japan. Second, the dates do not take into account the 13+ hour timezone difference between the United States and Japan. The dates given by these two are going to reflect US timezones and will not be accurate, particularly for anime that airs in the afternoon to evening hours. If you see or know of any episode list that uses Crunchyroll, Hulu, or any other streaming service to source air dates, you should check those dates to make sure that they are accurate and update the source to the more accurate source. —Farix (t | c) 13:11, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

You've raised the issue of streaming dates many times, I think there is a tacet agreement in the project that they are unsuitable in all cases? As is often the case, the issue is that people who don't interact with the project are probably the problem here. SephyTheThird (talk) 14:28, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

The previous discussion was over using stream dates as "English air dates", which was an entirely different matter. —Farix (t | c) 20:07, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Hinata Hyuga

A user has just recreated the article Hinata Hyuga. He seems to be aware of the guidelines since he is working on the reception section so I sent him a source that might help him. Should I let him continue working in the article or move it to his sandbox? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 13:48, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I would leave it be for now to see what his/her plans are. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:54, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I think is fine to leave it a bit. A sandbox would have been ideal but working on a reception section suggests a legitimate attempt to create a article for the right reasons. Might be a good time to look for new sources.SephyTheThird (talk) 14:44, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

List of manga magazines

I need an opinion, do you feel it would be beneficial to split this into two articles? I was thinking...

• List of manga magazines published in Japan
• List of manga magazines outside of Japan

Thoughts? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:41, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

On a side note I am having a back and forth between @ChuChu: and myself. I keep trying to explain that the addition of "male" on the demographics needs sourcing. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:09, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I've noticed them doing that also. I think I've reverted them a few times, but it seems like they keep doing it. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 18:11, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I can fill in source the best I can for the demographics, the addition of "male" and "female" though needs to be sourced as it is added info. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Male/Female are demographic. Yuri/Mixed/Yonkoma/... are content and not target readership. ChuChu (talk) 18:16, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Again, you are not providing any references for the content you are adding. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:19, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict × 2) Kodomo, shoujo, shounen, seinen, and josei are demographic. Yuri, Shounen-ai, adult, and such are content. Yonkoma is a format. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:19, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

This can be fixed with time as I don't have all the info yet on the magazines. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:21, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Again, none of the rows in the table are sourced. I don't see why few rows should be specifically sourced. ChuChu (talk) 18:22, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I have been trying to add sources, you keep adding un-sourced content. As I said the WP:BURDEN lies on you to source the info. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

If you don't have info about these magazines, that doesn't mean that you should remove their target readership. ChuChu (talk) 18:24, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

How does a person know their target readership, if there is nothing provided that proves it to be true? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:25, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

That's true for every magazine on that list, which are un-sourced. but if you want to source them, sources are everywhere, go ahead and do it. ChuChu (talk) 18:28, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

If there are sources everywhere, perhaps it would be more constructive if you added the sources in when you readd the content, as Knowledgekid is right in my opinion. The burden is on the person readding the content, not the person removing it. It would also better aid Kid's efforts in fixing up the table. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 19:20, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

TenTon is correct. The fact that the demographics aren't sourced for the majority of magazines and those demographics have been challenged, Champion Red being one example, is a major problem. If we aren't able to source the demographics to reliable sources, preferably from the publishers of the magazines, then we are going to have to clear the demographic field of hundreds of articles to comply with WP:V and WP:BURDEN. —Farix (t | c) 19:42, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Before we start clearing things, let me take a crack at sourcing. I am slowly finding sources for the magazines but admit I wont find all of them . - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:51, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the non demographics per Nihonjoe, and replaced them with "Unknown". I am doing my best to add sources to the remaining content. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:55, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I have a few book sources for demographics. I'll see what I can do.SephyTheThird (talk) 22:03, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

34 done, just from two pages of Manga: The Complete Guide.SephyTheThird (talk) 22:26, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I added a bunch more from the book. However it seems that the other books I was going to use don't directly use the japanese terms. Some only use english terms and some talk about the demographics but not directly enough to discount possible OR when interpreting the text. For what its worth I've tried Watching Anime, Reading Manga, The Rough Guide to Manga, Manga! Manga! and Manga Sixty years of Japanese Comics. Not saying they are unusable but they don't give quick lists. SephyTheThird (talk) 23:37, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

On a separate note, the websites are all given as refs. Clearly this plays havoc with the display of them at the bottom of the page and makes checking the reflist for sources to reuse quite difficult. So should we convert them to single bracket links or remove them altogether, as the websites will be provided on their articles? SephyTheThird (talk) 22:08, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

@SephyTheThird: Yeah I was thinking of doing that, go ahead with the removal and thanks for the help! =) - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:24, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I'll focus on sourcing first, I still have several books to go through and I haven't finished with the Thompson book yet.SephyTheThird (talk) 22:29, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Okay sounds good. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:29, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Does Megami Magazine contain enough manga to be classified as a Manga magazine? AFAIK it's just titilation and not known for it's collection of manga. The non-Japanese list is also full of publications that aren't "manga magazines". Some do contain several chapters per issue (Animerica and Otaku USA for example) but many just seem to be publications that discuss manga/anime in general (like Protoculture Addicts and Neo). I presume that "Manga magazine" in that list should it includes regular chapters of Manga? SephyTheThird (talk) 23:51, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

The English article for Megami is incomplete. Doing a search I found that manga series that include Kotoura-san and Binchō-tan (manga) were in part done by Megami. No this isn't a lot of manga, but even a few series would I feel able it for inclusion. As for the Outside japan table, this is another project to work on as you are right about non manga magazines there. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:16, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, good point. There's a difference between magazines that publish manga (Shonen Jump), and magazines about manga like your Newtypes or Protoculture Addicts . Should they be listed separately? I liken it to the comics section of newspapers and general interest magazines. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:31, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

If they are listed separately then what would they fall under? I am still open to splitting the two lists we have apart though as it is. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:37, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I could add another color category that reads "Magazine talks about, but does not publish manga". - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Manga publication magazines versus Magazines about manga? Is there an elegant phrasing for it? ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 02:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

One problem with the list is that a lot of magazines have changed format. Coverage (and article names) are often based on a particular format. For the list I'm just going to take each title as it comes, if MADB has the start date I'll use it, but if the listing has holes in it for later issues/format changes I'll leave the end dates as they are. However some titles have mismatches, as it's not always obvious if MADB is being incomplete or the information elsewhere is wrong I'm simply ignoring any title that shows this for now. This also causes another decision, if I update the articles to reflect changes to the list it will take much longer to update and source the list properly. Due to the length of the list I'd rather focus on that and the articles can be updated at a later date like any other edit.SephyTheThird (talk) 09:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I know that for Weekly Shōnen Jump, it only goes back to when the magazine switch from bi-weekly to weekly.[2] Also, it only gives the issue dates for the older magazines, not the "street date" when the magazine was sold, which creates another problem. For example, the first issue of Weekly Shōnen Jump that has a street date is Issue 45 2009.[3] Since MADb do not have street dates of the older magazines, should we just include the issue dates for all manga serializations for consistency? —Farix (t | c) 10:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm inclined to go with issue dates for everything for consistency, availability and because they are more "tangible", especially for non-weekly publications. Magazines have always had confusing scheduling for their dates but I think people are more likely to refer to the cover date than the "release date". Release dates have a habit of being subject to change and if it's printed on the cover as well, is open to being incorrect. I'm going to concentrate on titles with a less complex release history to build a clearer picture of what titles are cause for concern. We should be able to group them together using table sorting once more DTS entries are filled in.SephyTheThird (talk) 11:03, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

So if the date on the cover of the first issue of Shōnen Jump is August 1, then that is the date we go with and not the July 2 date that is given in the article's body. —Farix (t | c) 11:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I found the source Japanese Magazine Publishers Association to be very helpful. While it lists circulation numbers, it categorizes the type of magazines that they appeal to, this one for example is for girls (Shōjo): [4]. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:09, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

That's an awesome source, and I would consider it authoritative for demographic. We also ought to look into including 少女向けコミック or 少女向け漫画 as part of the description for shōjo manga, since that is the long form they use in Japanese. The same for any other demographic. the 向けコミック or 向け漫画 part means "-targeted comics/manga". ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:02, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, I also noticed that there is a way you can search up the magazines separately but the pages do not list the demographics. I wonder if there is a way to access past circulation figures as it appears that they are grouped that way. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

JM

Johnny Mnemonic (film) has a scene in the first 15 minutes where the titular character portrayed by Keanu Reeves is having 320 GB of data uploaded into his head. When he enters the room of scientists they are watching anime on a big-screen and during the upload it cuts away from his straining face to focus on the anime being played.

I don't recognize what it was. The film came out in 1995 and based on the style I'm thinking it was one of those mid to late 80s animes which got English dubs around that time.

Does anyone recognize what it is? I think it would be informative to note this on both the film's article and the anime's article. Ranze (talk) 12:21, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Unless it is mentioned by a third-party source, it is trivia. They were just random images from the TV to serve as a decryption key. Also, this one scene, nor any anime/manga reference in other media, does not mean that the film is within the scope of this WikiProject. —Farix (t | c) 12:36, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

This is probably it: Demon City Shinjuku, and the mention is already there. _dk (talk) 12:39, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I would remove it since the fact that the scientists happened to watch an anime during the upload appears to be peripheral to the main story.--174.91.187.80 (talk) 18:35, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

It has been a long time since I saw the film but I believe the other part about the increase in capictty form 80 to 160 GBs is accurate so I see a case for retaining that addition.--174.91.187.80 (talk) 18:40, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

The film summary just links to anime, but if there's evidence that it is indeed Demon City Shinjuku you can link the word anime to Demon City Shinjuku. But you'll need to add some links to articles that discuss the use of Demon City Shinjuku in the film. See Perfect Blue#Legacy for example. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:44, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Missing titles in episode lists

What do you do when a series' episodes don't have titles, and are just numbered instead? Do you just leave the title parameters in {{Japanese episode list}} blank? Or do you call them "Episode 1", "Episode 2", etc? Thanks, G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 18:10, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Since the |EpisodeNumber= parameter already takes care of episode numbers, listing the number of the episode in lieu of a title is redundant in my opinion and technically aren't titles. Opencooper (talk) 04:50, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

If "Episode 1" is displayed in the opening, then that is the title of the episode and should be in the Title column, even if it may seem redundant. —Farix (t | c) 10:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

What are the episode titles as listed in MADB? The Ikki Tousen first season episodes went by old fashioned numbers. Bleach listed only the number on screen although the episodes did indeed have regular titles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:14, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

@AngusWOOF: iIt's a series of shorts just titled "Short #1", "Short #2", etc. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 10:55, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

List of Pokémon Adventures volumes (1–20)

A new user has been rewriting the article List of Pokémon Adventures volumes (1–20). I reverted it the first summary since it felt too long and subjective. Then I was reverted by an anon who also sent me a message to my talk page. The new summary feels a bit longer but I don't know if it is better than the original summary. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 14:39, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Problems with critical reception/reviews summaries in leads

As most of use already know, when the lead repeats information that is in the body of the article, there is no need to cite the information in the lead if it is already cited in the body unless you are dealing with a biography of a living person. However, recently, there has been a problem with a couple of editors removing summaries of critical reception and reviews sections from article leads. The first problem occurred at No Game No Life were Kdchan (talk · contribs) at first removed two statements summarizing reviews detailed in the reception section of the article. The pretense was that the summary itself was not sourced and constituted the opinions of Wikipedia editors. The editor was pointed to the reception section and WP:LEADCITE but would not drop the issue. The dispute was only temporarily abated when I pulled the every citation from the reception section and added them to the summary. However, the editor continued to edit war over what details, specifically downplaying negative reviews, were included in the summary. Another problem has occurred at Cowboy Bebop involving an editor named Deidaramonroe (talk · contribs) who also removed a reception summary on the pretense that it was unsourced. When I reverted point out that it was a summary of reviews already cited in the article and didn't need to be recited, they removed it again stating that the reviews were not an "official source". —Farix (t | c) 16:12, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I have actually been moving away from placing things like "received mostly x reviews" in the article as it does add undue weight. Rather than summing up the reviews I feel that it would be better if the reader read the reception section and decide for themselves, including a leading support/oppose opinion in the lead would be fine though I suppose. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:23, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

After looking over the fighting on Suicide Squad (film), I've been thinking along the same lines as KnowledgeKid, not even including a "negative/positive/mixed reviews" and maybe writing things like "criticized for its narrative and praised for its characterization and acting" type stuff instead. That kind of sentence could fit well in the lead too and would probably tend to be less contested. Though, yeah, removing it entirely from the lead because it's unsourced isn't proper. At any rate, I'll keep an eye out for these types of edits. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 16:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Unless you provide an official source, I'll keep removing it. And also, don't go naming the editors (and me) that's been removing and all just because you disagree. Btw, the "masterpiece and one of the greatest series" thing should be added to reception section not the body article or whatever. Deidaramonroe (talk) 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I think you are confused, official sources are called WP:PRIMARY sources. These are good and all but to establish notability, and avoid promotion we need WP:SECONDARY sources. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:54, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Some editors were undoing my changes just because they disagree. I told them that it was cited and all but they still keep undoing my changes. They said "it is unsourced" then removes so yeah, I've removed it cause it is unsourced too but I'll stop now. Also, as said earlier, it belongs to the reception section not body article so I hope you fix it up. Deidaramonroe (talk) 8 August 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I think you're also confusing an attempt to summarize a section with promotion or original reviewing? And, if it's in the reception section, it should probably be mentioned in the lead per WP:LEAD, which states that if it's in the body of the article and sourced there, it doesn't need to be sourced in the lead. There's a reception section, which is a body article section, and its contents should be mentioned in the lead. And, FWIW, I didn't think it was inappropriate for Farix name you and other editors. There isn't really another way to bring this up for discussion. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 17:26, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

So you are admitting to disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point. That is a blockable offense. —Farix (t | c) 17:28, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Admitting what exactly? "Blockable offense" LOL okay. They (some editors) told me "It is unsourced so it should be removed" while I was editing a page so I thought whenever we add something we should also provide a link. "And, if it's in the reception section, it should probably be mentioned in the lead per WP:LEAD" Then why some of the editors are undoing my changes? Deidaramonroe (talk) 8 August 2016 —Preceding undated comment added 17:54, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm confused now. Can you explain, Deidaramonroe, from the beginning, what is going on here? And what edits your making and your rationale for them? I've looked at your edits removing summaries of reception sections from leads claiming they're unsourced, when they're sourced in Reception sections (again, per WP:LEAD), but I feel like I'm not on the same page here. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 18:01, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm talking about the other pages. I edit then some editors keeps removing it. But it's okay now. :) Deidaramonroe (talk) 8 August 2016 —Preceding undated comment added 18:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

If you are referring to your edit to Puella Magi Madoka Magica,[5] no where in the reception section does a reviewer mention it as a "masterpiece", thus you were adding something new that wasn't stated elsewhere. Also, only one reviewer is quoted at calling it "the greatest TV anime series of the 21st century thus far", however, you edit stated that it was "frequently cite it as one of the greatest anime series of all time." This completely misrepresents what was stated in the reception section. —Farix (t | c) 18:43, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I always treated the leads like a thesis, which should summarize the article top to bottom, so it should include reception. These editors disagreed with the summarized reception but on different levels. Kdchan maintained the lead reception sentence is "based on personal opinions and no true facts", whose intentions were to "remove some negativity and lies, as a novel reader of such novel". Originally using no sources were provided as an excuse to remove the sentence, he eventually just reiterated the sources in the article to alleviate the negative reception. Deidaramonroe seems to be better behaved than Kd, but needs to understand the lead as a summation of the article. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 19:44, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Evangelion was also called a masterpiece show and yet nobody added it to the wiki. And no, many reviewers and directors in Japan called it a "Masterpiece" even in France. And as said earlier, I'll stop editing and all so no need to argue anymore. I'm done talking with you all. Sorry and have a nice day to all of you! ;) (Deidaramonroe (talk) 19:48, 8 August 2016 (UTC))

Character FA anyone?

As I was checking Wikipedia:WikiProject Fictional characters/Quality content#Featured Articles, I noticed there was not a anime and manga character there. I contacted an expert user from the video game project, he told me to use Lightning (Final Fantasy) and Ellie (The Last of Us) (though this one has yet to become a FA) as models. However, I'm not too confident in making a FA since English is not my first language. Maybe some could collaborate in making the project's first character FA. I think GAs like Spike Spiegel, Naruto Uzumaki, Edward Elric and Allen Walker could become FAs after some clean up since there is so much real world information about them (I rushed an Allen Walker here. Nevertheless, I invite you to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ellie (The Last of Us)/archive2 to see if such article could become a FA. Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 01:31, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

It should be very much like going for a GA. I wouldn't worry about the English part; if it's copyediting help for the grammar, you can request that. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 01:35, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I would tend to agree with that layout, I used it when going for GA for Chi: Chi (Chobits). - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:42, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I just wanted to add that Allen Walker uses too much non free media that would need to be corrected. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:44, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Do you think I should delete the creation image Knowledgekid87?Tintor2 (talk) 13:06, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Three images? Isn't that just about normal for an article like this? (perhaps a bit above average) If anything, I'd prefer the removal of the Crown Clown form myself, as its appearance is not commented upon. ~Mable (chat) 13:10, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I removed an image and trim some parts to leave the in-universe info shorter. However, I think Spike's article looks closer to become a FA.Tintor2 (talk) 14:09, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Yeah that is the image I would have suggested for removal. As for Spike Spiegel, sure go for it! =) - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:44, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I shouldn't do it since that's most @ProtoDrake:'s work.Tintor2 (talk) 16:43, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Magazine circulation figures

I need an opinion, do you think the circulation figures should all be referenced like I did here: Weekly Shōnen Magazine#Circulation or is this reference overkill? Aside from the current circulation figure I don't know if each article needs a complete history of the numbers or not. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:53, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with citing all of the circulation figures. To be honest, it'd drive me nuts to see the table without inline refs. (Then again, I'm guilty of ref overkill as someone who used three citations to reference that Captain Rex also refers to a droid.) I think it's better to err on the side of caution. As for needing a complete history of circulation numbers, I'm not sure if it's strictly necessary. That information might be more easily digested via a chart (Like a line chart similar to some ratings charts for TV shows, tho it seems to be a complicated process in the linked example. Idk, a possible suggestion.) ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 02:29, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I wish there were a way to group the references though, in this case I cant use "ref-name" as each number has its own separate quarterly page. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:09, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

This is just my doubt but shouldn't you use less numbers like 1.3 millions? Seems rather unnecessary. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 14:30, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

You can combine references into one paragraph for a year as done with many of the K-pop singles and albums. Also round circulaton figures as with Time (magazine)#Circulation AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:47, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Thats a good example as taking year ranges makes it easier to show lasting trends rather than natural variations from month to month or season to season (such as when particular manga attract new readers or drops when one ends).SephyTheThird (talk) 14:59, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Okay, and thanks for the ideas everyone. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:01, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Animanga infobox shortening

I thought I should bring this to the project's attention, since it'll likely affect a large number of our articles. Mika1h (talk · contribs) has been going around a few articles and removing most of the individual animanga infoboxes on the basis that the entire thing is too long, such as here, here, and here. Although there may be some cases where certain boxes can be merged, such as here with the OVA boxes, I don't think the mass removal of anything not connected to the "main focus of the article" is helpful to the readers, and pretty much goes against the whole point of {{Infobox animanga}} to show readers what types of media a series has as a quick overview.--十八 20:00, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I think Infobox animanga stopped being a quick overview a long time ago. --Izno (talk) 21:19, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I see what he did there. I also did the same thing at The Irregular at Magic High School, keeping only the most notable works in the box to reduce length. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 21:27, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm not fully against consolidation or shortening (I've done something similar on Rewrite (visual novel)), but at the very least, this is rather extreme, especially since Mika1h even removed the two OVA boxes (arguably at least as notable as the TV series), one of which isn't licensed so they can't even be merged.--十八 22:53, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't see why this is an issue, and agree that that is an extreme removal of content. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:31, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I guess it should be a case by case basis then. For Angel Beats, I'd remove the 4 komas and consolidate the OVAs. This is my opinion as someone who knows nothing about that series. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 00:42, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

If nothing else, the OVAs can't be consolidated; one was licensed and the other wasn't.--十八 01:09, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Agreed, we could only consolidate the media that has been licensed. Yes for a case by case basis. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:11, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps we should make some/all of the sections collapsible? This would allow people to see the basic information, and then expand the box for any other items. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:29, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Infoboxes that span half an article don't show readers a "quick overview". WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE states that infoboxes should "allow readers to identify key facts at a glance" and "present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content". If I have to scroll most of the article to see key facts, maybe they aren't key facts anymore. --Mika1h (talk) 16:52, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Or maybe the article is too big, or covers too much? The obsession here to consolidate everything about a series into one article seems to have some drawbacks. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 19:21, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

It's not really about an obsession to consolidate; it's about notability. Most media spin-offs are not notable enough to get their own articles.--十八 20:20, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

It's not strictly notability, which can be easier to find for anything from the last 15 years than people give credit for. We don't have the manpower and most editors are not going to make an effort to make a proper article even when the material is available. It's just easier to have one "good" article covering a franchise than several half hearted problematic offshoots. Nothing stops people from making spinoffs assuming they can make an effort but two reviews to quote are apparently too much effort for people to make. Never mind the task of actually writing something with a structure and information that is properly sourced. Yet I can also sympathise with this because I have difficulty sitting down to create something these days so have been sticking largely to quick edits like watchlist patrolling and the actions needed and doing boring but quick spamming of MADB for dates in list articles. Unfortunately there is no solution to the issue because that solution would be better used to create better pages for the main topic. Nihonjoe has a decent point but it's not all about notability. That said, I'm not sure more spin off articles solves the infobox problem as people would still try to summarise those offshoots in the boxes.SephyTheThird (talk) 21:10, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Key facts should also be summarised in the lead, so I'm not convinced infobox length is a universal problem. SephyTheThird (talk) 21:10, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

I would not support "shortening" the infobox in the way Mika1h did. Instead, I would rather look at removing fields that really aren't necessary in the infobox. First starting with the English-language parameters, then removing nonessential fields like producer, music, and runtime for {{Infobox animanga/Video}} and demographic and imprint for {{Infobox animanga/Print}}. —Farix (t | c) 14:21, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Notice to participants at this page about adminship

Many participants here create a lot of content, have to evaluate whether or not a subject is notable, decide if content complies with BLP policy, and much more. Well, these are just some of the skills considered at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship.

So, please consider taking a look at and watchlisting this page:

• Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll

You could be very helpful in evaluating potential candidates, and even finding out if you would be a suitable RfA candidate.

Many thanks and best wishes,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:46, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

With all the stress that comes with it, to me that bit is a big turn-off. If I ever became an admin I would lay as low as possible, I don't need anymore of Wikipedia's politics. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:46, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

@Anna Frodesiak: Until administrator rights returns to being "no big deal", I don't see this as being helpful. In fact, I find the 10 point system to evaluate candidates downright contemptible. —Farix (t | c) 14:25, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Notice of discussions regarding updates to MOS:TV

This is just a notification to a series of discussions that are taking place regarding updates to MOS:TV, of which editors may have an interest. You can find more information about the initiative and the discussions, here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:31, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Comic Natalie

This source is cited multiple times by ANN, and seems to be reliable when it comes to upcoming announcements. [6] Could we add it to WP:A&M/ORS? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:14, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Seconded, I use it all the time for citing publication dates for manga. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 23:17, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Support Comic Natalie is a very reliable source. --Thibaut120094 (talk) 00:12, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Also support, it's great for comics news and I've seen it cited many times by sources. Some instances: ANN, Scott Green, Fandom post, Otaku USA, Manga-News, and more. Note that there's a Wikipedia article for it here: Natalie (website). Looking on the site, I don't think they have bylines for authors and I can't find anything on their editorial staff, though that's more likely due to the language barrier and regardless, I think being cited frequently by many of our reliable sources should be a good indicator of reliability. Opencooper (talk) 12:45, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

They've also been cited by Yahoo Japan.SephyTheThird (talk) 16:00, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Not being able to read Japanese, does anyone have any idea what the background of its staff is? ~Mable (chat) 22:50, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

If they are being quoted by major sources then I would say that what they have to say is legit. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:56, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Looking into it more, Natasha's website says (machine-translated): "dedicated reporters have been the original writing of its own coverage of the news article". Its WIkipedia pages notes that Gen Karaki is the editor-in-chief, and looking at the source interview itself, he says that the editing unit includes three other people. So we at least know they have staff. Though if anyone has the language skills, I would also like to know more about the background of the writing staff. I highly doubt they are crowdsourcing writers, but considering I couldn't find bylines I wonder where they are being sourced from. Opencooper (talk) 18:54, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Translated episode titles

Someone more familiar than me with the sources usually used for English translations of anime episode titles may want to take a look whether this is appropriate. Thanks in advance. Huon (talk) 23:52, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't know about Naruto, but personal attacks by User:CitroenLover should be sanctioned. --Thibaut120094 (talk) 01:40, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

For the English title, I would use and cite Crunchyroll's translation until it is officially translated by Viz. The literal (or Google) translation should not be used in place of an official one. The literal one can be footnoted if it has a particularly interesting or different translation. Then in the table header, add a footnote saying that the title translations are taken from Crunchyroll until the episode is officially released/broadcast on Adult Swim or Viz. Attempts to translate on their own would constitute original research. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:38, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't know anything about translations, so it's not like I could help with that. As for the release, it's already released (we're talking about an episode released many years ago....) and all but Crunchyroll use the title of "Writhe", yet Crunchyroll is using some other title. I thought the point was to make mention of clear differences between official sources (as Crunchyroll is an official way of watching the anime).

Also, I like how people who have no interest in the series are giving their unwanted opinion on this topic. Only people who actually watch the series should be giving their opinion on this, as it skews the discussion otherwise. --CitroenLover (talk) 09:24, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Anyone can give their opinion on a subject, this is an open encyclopaedia and contributions are not ranked based on a user's involvement with a subject. If anything the problem is your attempt to control peoples edits and contributions based on them meeting your own requirements. That is not how Wikipedia works. It certainly does not skew the discussion to ask the wider community for their input, it's actually what is supposed to happen in cases like this. What does skew the discussion is people displaying obvious bias towards who can edit and what their involvement is. The problem here is not other editors but your own poor attitude. If that is seen as not assuming good faith, well I think your own edits have made the case for me.

Getting back to the topic, who are all these people giving this other title? You should give examples. Crunchyroll are the official English licensor for streaming, therefore their title is legitimate.If there are other legitimate translations provided by the companies involved then I encourage you to provide these examples rather than just state them without anything to back it up. Note that fansubbers, fans translating the titles themselves and user contributed databases (MAL, ANN Encyclopedia) are not valid sources. I've changed the title and removed the note for now, and yes I do watch the series so I pass your little "test". Given the argument here, we clearly need sources for alternate titles.SephyTheThird (talk) 09:44, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

I watched the episode on Crunchyroll and it looks like Crunchyroll's site editors have made a mistake, because their own subtitles say "Writhe". I think that ends the discussion on this topic. --CitroenLover (talk) 10:34, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

On Viz Media website episode 56 says "Squirming": [7] It is using the Hulu stream though. TV Guide shows "Writhe" [8] So does Futon Critic [9] It's not a big deal to list both or keep a footnote to clarify this. What does the Viz DVD say? Which one's the literal subtitle translation and which one is the one as marketed in the media? See List of Suzuka episodes for other examples of dual titles where one is based off the subtitle translation and one is what the DVD and English produced media is publicizing it to be. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 13:41, 28 August 2016 (UTC) updated 14:01, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

I went ahead and put in the Futon Critic and TV Guide refs. Those are most likely the actual title as presented in broadcast, and they are secondary source. The titles as presented by the DVD still need to be confirmed. The Crunchyroll and Hulu ones are still partly legit because they are referred to directly by the online website. But this affects more than just that one episode. The episode right after "Squirming/Writhe" says "Deprived of Eternal Sleep" and has the alternative title "Robbed of Sleep" on the Viz online media website. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:36, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Apply TNT to Universal Century

This Universal Century article is just awful. I was hoping it would either have a timeline and some decent recap of the major events in the period, but instead I get huge lists of manga, novels, video games that are subsets of the larger Gundam franchise's lists of manga, novels, and video games. Any suggestions on how to TNT this so that it serves some purpose? Make it like Timeline of Star Trek or History of Arda? Note some of the other Gundam eras don't even have their own articles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:08, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

I think the first problem is what the content should be. The problem with a timeline or recap is that we will swap one problem for a different one, and arguably it will cause a worse issue because finding a fan who can do it objectively for length, style and content is Mission Impossible. Unless you are volunteering :p Really the big question is do we need an article here? Covering the greater story lends itself too much to cruft. Using it as a central hub to works that fall under UC is going to be easier and I know for a fact there are sources to bring them under the UC banner.

Unfortunately Gundam is one of those monsters. There are a lot of articles, a lot of fans are likely to get involved and take personal objections to anything that tries to downplay the volume of content and despite it being easier to bin the lot and start again in order to improve it in the long run, it's just less hassle to accept it's an issue which will never get solved. I really think we would need a team of experienced editors who are Gundam fans to tackle this. SephyTheThird (talk) 22:18, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Video game section should be binned, just stick a small paragraph in there as the list is essentially redundant to the existing article. Many of the manga/novels are directly from animated works, so do these need to be listed? Again a spin off might just be the easy way. SephyTheThird (talk) 22:24, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Nope, not volunteering. I leave that to the experts. I'm just trying to clear the list cleanup tag. A chronology article and perhaps a timeline article would be nice as that is what is used on those other major franchises. They could use the table rows of Gundam#Eras_Featured There's a matter of canonicity as well; is it based mainly on the shows? Then the manga, novels, drama CD, video games and merchandise can be excluded unless they have specifically influenced the chronology. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:59, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

If you ask me, I would WP:BLOWITUP. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:18, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd say delete everything but the "Chronology" and "Analysis" sections. The rest is just an indiscriminate and unsourced list of Gundam titles. Possible sources that could be used: ANN Kotaku. Though to be honest it all feels very fancrufty to me and might not warrant a standalone article considering it is only one of many Gundam universes. Also the Gundam Wikia has a timeline, but it is likely too granular for our purposes and unsourced. Opencooper (talk) 00:30, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

I just redirected the page to Gundam under the timeline section, please feel free to move over any references that can be salvaged. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:02, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Suggestion

Anybody interested in making a character article for Hei from Darker Than Black? I keep finding some sources about his creation and reception but I don't feel interested probably because I don't remember much about the series. If so, I'll try to send you all the reviews I find. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 23:34, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Update I found about 11 sources for Hei without even counting the Newtype poll or his cosplay. Also, I've been wondering if anybody has sources for Tai Kamiya considering it's the only Digimon character article and his reception is too small. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 19:04, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Unofficial Wikipedia Discord server

There is now an unofficial server for Wikipedians on Discord, useful for a centralised means of communication between Discord users who are also Wikipedians. The server can be used to communicate with other editors more conveniently.

https://discord.gg/khvrRXV

 Speeditor talk  12:13, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Love interests in harem anime content dispute

Seems I'm in a content dispute (I guess?) with User:Anthony Duran and I don't want to edit war, so I'll just post a summary here. A quick tl;dr for any neutral parties:

• Anthony Duran objects to Moka Akashiya and Rias Gremory being listed as the primary love interest of their respective protagonists, as he argues that harem (genre) anime have more than one love interest. He instead repeatedly changed it to "one of the love interests".
• I believe the sentences are fine as they are since it is clear to anyone who's watched the shows that Moka and Rias are the primary love interests for their shows, and there is clear difference between *primary* love interest and *only* love interest. Additionally, I believe that my viewpoints are also supported by RS coverage.
• After some back-and-forth he has now removed any references to love interests for both articles.

Discussion is difficult as Anthony Duran either doesn't respond to concerns or just blanks his talkpage after responding. This has been going on for a while now and obviously isn't going anywhere so I'm coming here to hopefully find some consensus. Satellizer el Bridget ^(Talk) 11:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Well remarks such as that talk page argument are a pretty clear indication that they are not editing with an objective approach. I won't claim to be an expert on Harem shows and it's quite likely that they vary on a per title basis. The example I would use is Love Hina. yes it's a harem show but the focus is clearly on one character above the others from an early stage. I've undone the removals as vandalism, because thats how I see it. Especially as one of them is removing material supported by an official ref. SephyTheThird (talk) 11:33, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

If it continues, give out the relevant warnings then send to AIV. If they want to continue then they've only themselves to blame.SephyTheThird (talk) 11:37, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Are there no sources describing any of the characters as a primary love interest? ~Mable (chat) 12:01, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I wrote Rias' page and author Ichiei Ishibumi has outright stated that Rias was developed into the second lead character (first lead being the protagonist); see #Conception and creation. As for Moka, User:AngusWOOF posted on my talkpage that Theron Martin of ANN noted "Central characters Tsukune is a cookie-cutter harem male lead, an unfailingly kind-hearted, indecisive wimp who primarily has a thing for Moka but still treasures the other girls as friends". Satellizer el Bridget ^(Talk) 12:18, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

In both the anime, and manga series Moka ends up being Tsukune's love interest. Harem series usually have three different options which I will put into categories:

• A: The main character ends up with all of the girls/boys with no particular love interest. (This is common) (Noucome)
• B: The main character ends up with one of the girls/boys, the rest become friends. (This is usually standard) (Love Hina, Nakaimo - My Sister Is Among Them!)
• C: The main character ends up with none of the girls/boys. (I haven't seen this too often)

- Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:32, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

In List of Rosario + Vampire characters there were two statements that were being disputed. The first in the Moka description said Moka was Tsukune's love interest. In the manga, I would tend to agree with Anthony Duran as their relationship as lovers in the manga is ambiguous, but in the anime, they look at each other with loving eyes and there's romantic situations (usually interrupted by another girl) in every episode. So the anime she is his love interest. But that was stricken from Moka's description. The second was that Anthony Duran was changing the wording of the RS-quoted reviewer "who primarily has a thing for Moka" to "who seems to have a thing for Moka (not 100%)"[10] which changes the context of the quote, violating MOS:QUOTE and adds original research. Here's another review that affirms Moka as a "primary romantic interest". [11] AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:27, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Actually at the end of the manga series, Moka ends up with Tsukune more so than the anime series. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:43, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I think it goes without saying that you can't change a quote like that. Seems that in this case, it is pretty straight-forward that Moka is the primary love interest, at least in the anime adaption. Feel free to add something along the lines of "in an anime review" or "as the character appeared in the anime" to the disputed line. ~Mable (chat) 15:01, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

There are not lovers in both the anime and the manga, Besides there are other girls in his life. Can we please put a stop to this conflict. It really bugs me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthony Duran (talk • contribs) 16:16, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

We resolve conflicts on Wikipedia by reaching a consensus. This is done through discussion with other editors. If you don't want to do that, you can cede to their version of the article, but you can't just say "I'm right, stop arguing" and have it both ways. Regarding the issue at hand, and having read the manga in the past, I think it's a bit silly to deny someone being a primary interest just because it is a harem and it certainly doesn't apply in this manga. The key word here is "primary", which does not preclude other love interests. Additionally, when there are disputes over subjective interpretations of fiction, reliable third-party sources should be relied on, and in this case AngusWoof has provided them while you have not.

Opencooper (talk) 16:32, 7 September 2016 (UTC) They've just vandalised both character articles a whole hour after their block expired. I've undone them but it needs follow up, which is to fiddly to do of my phone...SephyTheThird (talk) 17:35, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

I've reported them to ANI. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 18:05, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

The user has been blocked for 4 days, while we are on the topic of Moka though I might do some major work on the article. Some of the sections can be consolidated, and I do not really agree to the referencing style. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:20, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

You can simplify the referencing to {{Ref|Chapter| }} or {{Ref|Episode| }} I developed the R+V character list with an older style that broke stuff down to the volume and episode, but on newer lists I have made them even simpler, following examples like A Town Where You Live. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 23:27, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Hmm that is interesting, the page numbers aren't needed though? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:34, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

On the graphic novels? Probably not. They would be difficult to determine across editions of different languages. But you could still have the page number, like: {{Ref|Chapter|Vol. 2 p. 5}} AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 01:48, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Have you ever thought of separating citations to RS'es and those referring to the work? I've done that to a few established webcomic articles like Concerned and I think it looks particularly good. ~Mable (chat) 08:04, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

I think that everyone has their own way of doing things, as long as the article becomes a GA or FA I am not worried a in the end it is a win-win. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 10:58, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

The R+V ones are already split by works cited (primaries). I agree it helps for character articles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 21:13, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Saint Seiya

@Refuteku:, @Zjec: and me. Before we keep reverting, I believe we should discuss an issue in Saint Seiya. The series is also known as "Knights of the Zodiac" which led Zjec to add the same title twice but in another translation. Both Refuteku and me reverted this, but Zjec did it too. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 00:27, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Seems like edit warring to me, essentially three reverts of the same content. That the edits happened on different days isn't a factor iirc. I'm tempted to make a pass over the article after a glance at it, especially as this is a topic that will occasionally pop up in my sources so it would be good to have an idea of it in my head. I think the naming explanation is just asking for trouble in it's current form but I'll get back to you.SephyTheThird (talk) 00:54, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Disputed section has dead links, it would be good to fix those first so we can see the supporting evidence. Coverage of non-english/japanese naming and releases has always been a rather grey area. It could be argued that they shouldn't be mentioned at all unless there is a good reason as it's not our job to discuss "foreign" editions, but it could equally be argued that it's useful for "complete coverage" (See:Lupin The Third#Copyright Issues where there are extenuating circumstances around some of the changes). It should be noted also that titles are typically decided with the original rights holders and so the naming could actually come from the owners (this happens a lot with TMS for example) rather than simply a translation of a non-english edition. Basically the article is making claims that it isn't backing up so lets resolve that first.SephyTheThird (talk) 01:11, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

FA feedback

Some days ago, I nominated Allen Walker to FA here. I managed to get a lot of feedback, but still only two supports and one user only leaving two comments. I would appreciate if any of you could give me comments as I heard that FA review last only one week. I don't mind if it fails though as I could ask for help from my mentor. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 23:26, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Heads up

IP 179.214.214.165 has been changing demographics/info on articles without providing any sources. [12] - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:18, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

2804:14C:7588:2C4:5DFB:1B98:EFB2:951 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is now continuing the same activities. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 00:54, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

2804:14C:7588:2C4:3DD0:1D94:BC3D:AC5C (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) another account now, this is getting disruptive. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:53, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

How about requesting for help in Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism?Tintor2 (talk) 17:02, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

I am trying to assume good faith, warnings have to be issued beforehand before I go into that area. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:13, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

With all those unsourced edits and reverts across multiple IPs, I think AGFing in this case is meaningless. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 20:19, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

If it happens again I will bring it up, I know I have had requests turned down due to lack of warnings beforehand on the IP's talkpage. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:30, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

I am not sure these are worth keeping

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Categories

...More to come... (Just a bit of housecleaning) - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:03, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Persistent vandalism

The article Eren Yeager has been the subject of jokes like this in the past months. Today a "new user" the same thing. What should we do? Request for protection or keep giving warnings to the user? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 17:51, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

compile the relevant diffs at AIV. Clear persistent vandalism warranting semi protection, the admin can then decide about a block. It's .SephyTheThird (talk) 18:13, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

It's hard to figure if there's a range of IPs that need to be blocked for the same type of vandalism. We could keep pushing page protection in the meantime, and issue level 3 vandalism warnings (bad faith) whenever it's the same problem. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 23:04, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Its just some user who is trying to ship some characters, I would just let them know that this isn't the place for it. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:19, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

The user keeps changing IPs, so warning the user in any sort of way is not helping. Since the article went unprotected on the 22nd, only two IP/unregistered user edits was constructive. The rest kept pushing on the husband part. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:04, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

RFPP denied the recent request. Looks like we'll have to manually patrol this until it gets really annoying. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:36, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Okay, it's now protected for a month. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 03:39, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

List of Naruto characters

@Firejally: has been adding more and more minor characters to List of Naruto characters to the point the list increased 30 kylobites. To make it even worse, he has added info to from the Narutopedia. I already tried to talk him twice but he keeps adding stuff. Any idea what to do? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 13:59, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I gave the user a warning, and asked them to discuss article expansion on the talk-page. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Seiyuu AfDs

User Sk8erPrince just nominated a number of seiyuu articles for deletion. Any input on them is welcome. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:09, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

This same user has nominated like 16 other such articles with very little evidence that they looked for sources beforehand. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:24, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I know. Some of the AfD seem to have hit the mark, but the others were spotty at best. I've given him a trout for that. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:29, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

No, by the wording of his/her comments this is approaching Wikipedia:Overzealous deletion. I understand the good faith of nominating the bad articles but I do not sense any intent of the user to want to keep anything before editors prove it worthy. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:31, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Knowledgekid87: So is there any action needed to be taken? Is further discussion with the user needed regarding their AfD nominations? Or is no further action necessary? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:44, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't know, I will let others weigh in too on their opinions. I feel the user is doing more harm than good. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:46, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Yeah your trout was not met well. I do not think the user understands WP:BEFORE. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:48, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Could you help me talk to him about article nominations? It seems he's starting to lose his cool. Also, he doesn't seem to understand WP:SYSTEMIC either. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:50, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I already tried here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Omi Minami I have been met with snappy comebacks every-time despite me trying to explain. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:51, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Well this sucks. Requesting input from other users here: @AngusWOOF:, @Juhachi:, @DragonZero:, @SephyTheThird:, @TheFarix:. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:55, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Is it really so hard for you people to assert the subjects' notability before you decide I'm "doing harm"? Do remember that Wikipedia is NOT IMDB; we do not intend to archive every single actor that exists. The articles I've nominated are whom I deem non-notable, so if you should object, prove to me that they ARE notable. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 04:01, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I think users here have assumed good faith with you plenty, I don't know why you are not reading what others are telling you. This is no longer about articles, it is about your conduct. Please give a reason why you are here to help others build this encyclopedia? --Sk8erPrince (talk) 04:35, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:02, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

An encyclopedia only needs articles of notable subjects, so non-notable subjects' articles should be deleted. Do not assume that I do not know what I'm doing, as you and some others have already done, and honestly speaking, I don't sit well with it. Your main focus should be finding relevant sources to dispute me effectively, like Angus. He does a pretty good at that. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 04:35, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Im pretty confident that you don't know what you are doing. You got one article deleted by chance that it wasn't notable, then after that mass AfD' these voice actress/actors. Before that you had not contributed to a single AfD. [13] - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:41, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Contrary to what you believe in, I DO know what I'm doing. I have studied upon many AFDs as well as having acknowledged what reasons a nominator would use to doubt a subject's notability. Hank Matthews was NOT deleted by chance, mind you. Determining that a subject whom has only two unverified minor roles besides being an unconfirmed living entity is just as easy as 1+1. I've always believed that Hank was a fake entity created by Ben Diskin. Anyway, that's not the main issue here, so let's move on to something else. Yes, maybe you could say that I was lucky on my first try. But I don't intend to stop with nominating just ONE article. Nominating an AFD for Hank was easy due to obvious reasons, but I'd like to try and nominate LIVING non-notable people, next. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 04:59, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Lack of news coverage, irrelevant/weak sources and lack of notable roles (Note: Just ONE main role isn't enough) are ALL valid reasons to doubt a subject's notability. Check these AFDs for reference.

1) Mike Pollock

2) Joel McDonald --Sk8erPrince (talk) 05:02, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

You should also be performing basic investigation before nominating articles, especially if you are nominating so many in one go. By themselves they might be valid nominations but frankly the attitude is so poor and misguided that it could be argued you are abusing the process. "As the nominator, my duty is to see that the article eventually gets deleted" and " If you object, you MUST prove to me what makes the subject so notable that I should withdraw the AFD" are not helpful statements to make. You understand reasons to nominate articles but not how the process actually works. The only person who needs to be convinced is the closing admin, making the case is one thing but making demands of editors actually looking at the nominations is not acceptable. If you are withdrawing them when challenged that suggests you shouldn't have nominated them so easily. Also by mass nominating so many articles it is impossible to give them a chance to bet examined properly. SephyTheThird (talk) 04:13, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't help that I can't interpret the Japanese language. It is difficult to perform investigations if the article itself lacks relevant sources. Also, you're not entirely correct if you say the admin is the only one that needs to be convinced. It is important to state your case to the nominator (me) as well so that we could speed up the process instead of prolonging AFDs for like, 10 days. Why else do you think nominators could close their own nominations? Also, AFD is a process where DEBATES are conducted to determine the subject's notability. That's why the statement, "If you object, you MUST prove to me what makes the subject so notable that I should withdraw the AFD" is relevant. You chose to dispute, so it's important for you to list all the relevant sources you could find. Honestly speaking, if I don't bother nominating articles for deletion, would you people bother looking into relevant sources to help save them? No, I don't think so. Also, once again, I must assert that I DO NOT nominate AFDs at random. Lastly, I don't just nominate seiyu pages for deletion. I've also nominated Chuck Powers and Paul Pistore for deletion, besides having successfully getting Hank Matthews's page deleted. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 04:35, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd also like to clarify that I am by no means abusing the process. It is imperative that we discuss together who is considered to be notable, and who isn't. In the future, I will, however, mention whether or not I've conducted a basic Google search before nominating any more articles.--Sk8erPrince (talk) 05:15, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

(Outdent) Firstly japanese is not a requirement for doing basic research before nominating and it never has been , a number of articles you nominated are keepable just from English sources. As for sources, they are important but roles can be sourced from a number of places, including the show credits, notability is the bigger issue.. You might be able to close your own AFD's but this is not an excuse to dictate to other editors or hold articles to ransom. Some of your comments are clearly testing the limits of good faith. As for your comment about using Afd to force improvements to articles, that's downright insulting to the work being done by people like Anguswoof.SephyTheThird (talk) 05:34, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Acknowledged, but as I have said, starting from Takaya Hashi, I have stated whether or not I have conducted a basic Google search before nominating any more articles. The ones I have nominated from that point all turn up nil in regards to relevant resources on Google search. Yes, some of my previously nominated articles could be keepable if more sources are found. I do admit and acknowledge that conducting a basic search is imperative before starting an AFD. Thank you for your insight. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 06:26, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Even if the ANN encyclopedia portion is not citable for sourcing, it can be used to look up whether the actor has major roles in major anime productions. Click on their profile and you'll see highlighted roles and news articles. Chances are if a huge number of them are bolded or the number of articles are significant, even if redundant or cast announcement, then they're probably notable, especially if they are headlining the article. Then click on the titles for those bolded roles, and see if they are grouped under the first set (main starring, anime-defining), second set (supporting, recurring) or third set (guest, minor recurring). Focus on the first set for notability purposes, and pick off any significant shows. Repeat for video games. VADB and Hitoshi Doi's Seiyuu database is also good but it tends to collect every minor or supporting role sometimes. Media Arts Database (MADB) is published by Japan's Agency for Cultural Affairs and is good for figuring out whether manga artists have been logged into their official database as well as anime directors, composers, and writers. If you're looking after English voice actors, I would visit Animecons.com and see if they are regulars in the anime convention circuit. JA Wikipedia is also a good indicator. If that article is developed and sourced, and not just a skeleton filmography then that helps filling in the biography. As you can tell, this still keeps the article at stub level until someone can write up a biography that walks through their major roles, and this becomes easier when the filmography is sourced, chronologically sorted, and linked to show major roles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 07:58, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Well in the span of less than 48 hours Sk8erPrince has nominated 40 articles for deletion. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:40, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

That's a lot of articles in a very short span of time. I have a hard time believing Sk8ter can keep track of all of them. I have difficulty keeping up with one AfD, haha. Is there a possibility to just link them all here, so more people can have a look at them? Sounds like a good thing for our project to do. ~Mable (chat) 17:37, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Like this: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Anime and manga? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:59, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah this is just getting disruptive. I took a look at the list and there are just so many deletion discussions, even a week wouldn't be fair to all of the articles and Sk8ter's responses here and at AfD have been highly combative and against the spirit of AfD (such as by making demands of other editors to fix articles, and the mass nominations do not create confidence that a good faith attempt at WP:BEFORE was made) Sk8erPrince, please slow down, try looking for sources more in depth, fix any problems you see yourself, and understand that AfD is not cleanup. Lastly your attitude is not conducive to collaboration on a community project like WIkipedia, please assume good faith of your fellow editors, it's not a battle between you and the other side to delete an article, but rather a discussion where both sides present evidence and try to see each other's point of view. Thanks. Opencooper (talk) 18:50, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Sk8erPrince, the ones that are confirmed to be non-notable can be AFD'ed, but the ones that you're not sure, I suggest using {{notability}} and {{cleanup-biography}} tags first. This will prompt editors to write in notable roles. And those notability tagged ones that stall and have no progress you can then push to AFD. You can also do {{BLP unreferenced}} if there are no sources and {{More footnotes}} if some exist but the entries and statements aren't referenced properly in the article. I expect future noms to have some detailed analysis and reasons for deletion as I have provided on the existing ones, walking through the supposed major roles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:48, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

To me, the main issue is that, for a deletion discussion, it is hard to discuss. So many AfDs is overwhelming ^_^; This is particularly the case for non-English subjects, as finding sources for them takes substantially more effort. I don't mind trying to search for Japanese-language sources myself, but I wouldn't know where to start with this list :s ~Mable (chat) 12:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. I try to limit it to less than a handful per week so each one gets enough attention. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:50, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd also like to add that we can have requests for bio writing and filmography cleanup over at WP:ANIME/BIO. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:06, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm also having concerns over some of the opinions being generated in several of these AFD's. There are numerous examples of the notability or importance of shows being questioned depending on if they are dubbed or who dubbed them, which is frankly irrelevant when talking about the notability of voice actors. I'm not sure if it's just superfluous opinions or some attempt to defend the nomination based on their own belief but it strikes me as poor form. I'm all for debating peoples points but it's not in the spirit of neutrality, which should apply to AFD just as much as article space. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SephyTheThird (talk • contribs) 14:53, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

I believe it's in the context of whether the productions the voice actor is in is notable, If all they've had for significant roles is non-notable web series or dime-a-dozen visual novels or direct-to-videos. Are you referring to the Odex dub issue? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:45, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Not solely, the other example was suggesting Magica Wars was somehow not notable (or acceptable as a main role role) because it hadn't been adapted for English language, which was then "corrected" to mean it wasn't dubbed when it was pointed out a sub was available. The existence of a dub doesn't detract from a Japanese voice actor having a major role in a series, whereas they have implied. When you point out a VA has had 3 major roles and then they say one doesn't count because they don't consider it a notable series it starts to look like constantly moving goalposts depending on their success. It's less about individual afd's and more the pattern.SephyTheThird (talk) 16:31, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

I think judging the notability by what work a seiyuu has done is silly in general. Many of these articles have the problem that they're nothing more than a list of appearances. That is not what Wikipedia is for: websites like IMDb and MyAnimeList cover that kind of content. Wikipedia notability guidelines are based in whether a subject is discussed (not mentioned) by sources. I don't care what dubs a voice actor has done. I want to see sources we can use to expand the prose if an article. Early/personal life, work ethics, partnerships, their thoughts about the work they've done. I don't understand why we're even discussing the notability of the works they've appeared in myself, as notability isn't inherited. ~Mable (chat) 08:15, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

"I think judging the notability by what work a seiyuu has done is silly"

Not necessarily - we're debating a seiyu's notability based on WP:ENT. However, I do agree that the articles should be expanded more rather than just 1-2 sentences in the bio. The notability of their works are also important as well - if I voiced in several comic dubs (which are fan work) or shows that are just so niche that barely anyone knows about, then regardless of how many of those projects I've worked on, I still don't meet the notability guidelines to have my own article warranted. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 09:30, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

You would be if multiple reliable sources wrote in-depth articles about you and your work, though ^_^ ~Mable (chat) 12:15, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

• I feel another major issue here is that Sk8erPrinc does not know how to properly close AfD discussions. I find myself cleaning up after this editor when it comes to mistakes such as not keeping the title of the AfD for sorting, or not linking the deletion date on the target article's talkpage. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

It's honestly not a major issue if the only thing I did not do is insert the date. I'll put it in for any future AFDs I intend to withdraw. Also, I'm just following the instructions on this page. So whatever I'm doing wrong, this page must be wrong, too. What are those alleged pages you've claimed to have "cleaned up" for me? I'd like to see them. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 05:13, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Now that the dust has settled and a clearer picture has emerged, it is easier to see what articles should be looked at and the general impressions of them. Therefore being able to comment on individual afd's has become easier. However several of them are still being tied to requests for biographies to be written. I hope this can be reviewed because while they are nice to have, they are not required and should be considered a long time goal, not something that needs to be done to satisfy a nomination. If notability has been proved that is all that is required, anything else is a quality issue.SephyTheThird (talk) 19:09, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I feel that a step is missing here, we should source the articles before writing up biographies for them. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:32, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

They can be tagged with {{cleanup-biography}} and the unsourced filmographies should be TNT'ed. I would not want to waste time on filling in filmography sources on an article that is still in the AFD state. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 00:48, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Mentoring?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Does the user need some mentoring when it comes to Wikipedia policies? Just food for thought. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:40, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I do apologize for my actions during the past week - it might have come off as overzealous or arrogant; I know I shouldn't use this as an excuse, but the result of my actions was largely due to my lack of experience and knowledge to Wiki policies and guidelines. However, Angus has taken the time to redirect me to the right path, so I don't think mentoring would be necessary. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 09:20, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I notice the user in question has been making draft AFDs in draft namespace after being told to stop his drive-by nominations, and then moved them to userspace (in the format of [[User:[Article name] (AFD)]]) after being told not to use the draft namespace for that purpose. Then he was outright combative while removing a ANI notice on his talk page. Despite his confession above, I recommend mentoring. After all, a drunk man will always say he is not drunk. _dk (talk) 09:38, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I could make draft AFDs. I am allowed to as long as they're drafted in the userspace. What's your point? I don't really know how to regroup previous drafts that were made in the wrong space, mate. A lot of the functions (and commands) here are still relatively new to me - do understand that. And that notice on my talk page? Please, it was posted by a troll - I don't need to hold back when it comes to trolls. I consider warnings given by non-trolls to be legit. And I question the usage of your metaphor, mate. Is it MANDATORY that I get tutored BEFORE I am allowed to make any more AFDs after the ones I've nominated have been sorted out? Well, you seem to have the answer to that, so how about I let you have a crack at it? --Sk8erPrince (talk) 11:27, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

You're not allowed to make user pages directly under User:[Article name], that would be creating user pages for unregistered accounts. You are supposed to put them in your own userspace, like User:Sk8erPrince/Junko Okada (AFD). This sort of faux pas is what I mean when I say you need mentoring. _dk (talk) 11:39, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

All my new AFD drafts are created in my userspace, thank you very much. Why would I need mentoring if several members have already pointed out the proper procedures for me? See Advice 1 and Advice 2. Now, I'd really appreciate it you could stop acting like you're higher than me. I'm new, but I'm a quick learner. I request that you get off my case. And even if you don't, I will not respond to you. Farewell. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 11:52, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Predictable. _dk (talk) 12:12, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

This is the first time I've ever heard of WP:MENTOR being a thing. However, reading the line "Involuntary mentorship has a very poor track record and is not recommended," it seems like mentorship in this case it is not recommended. ~Mable (chat) 11:59, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, so the likes of DK could really learn to stop shoving a program that I'm not gonna take. It's also imperative that I mention that he was the only one that called me names and tried to intimidate me (eg. called me a "troll", "I only have two words to say to you, and it's not polite", etc.). Geez, man. I didn't know I hit a nerve. It's not my fault if many of the articles I've nominated fail WP:GNG (to be fair though, at the time of nomination, I didn't really know how to use that guideline to my advantage), or at least, APPEAR to fail the aforementioned guideline (frankly speaking though, a lot of them are credit dumps). I'll stop using the "it's your burden of proof to show me the subject is notable" argument, but I'm pretty sure many Wikipedians would agree that it's better to have a well sourced article with at least a brief bio that is also sourced, rather than a credits dump. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 12:28, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I can see why mentorship doesn't have good results: those that need it the most are most likely the ones who refuse to work cooperatively with others, mentors or otherwise. See how my own advice is received above. _dk (talk) 12:33, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Yeesh, one could really wonder why I would react so defensively to a certain someone. Is it their word choice? Or phrases that could have written better in a more NEUTRAL standpoint (WP:NPOV)? One could also wonder why certain Wikipedians that are on a high horse (yet has the audacity to say that I am on a high horse instead; how very hypocritical indeed) are free to trample newbies that are just learning. Of course I wouldn't take advice from someone who thinks they could insult my intelligence, put me to the ground, humiliate me, call me names and give me empty threats and just get away with it. I thought it should be pretty obvious by now. But it would seem that they're still pretty oblivious about it. Regarding this certain person, I can't possibly assume good faith from them. They don't mean well, I'm sure of it. It would also appear that they have only looked at ONE specific aspect of a situation to target rather than looking at the entire picture. So much for being unbiased, am I right? Oh well, so is life. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 12:44, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

It could also be inferred that refusing to work with only ONE Wikipedian ≠ refusing to cooperate and work with the rest of the Wikipedia body. So, it's just as I said - they just can't seem to see the entire picture, and they're way too narrowminded to reason with. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 12:52, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I rarely end up working together with other people on Wikipedia anyway. As long as you aren't (passive) aggressive to one another in discussions (like deletion discussions), I see no issue with that. ~Mable (chat) 12:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I see AFD discussions as a collaborative process. After all, you can't just nominate an article and expect it to be deleted automatically. No - other users vote to agree or disagree. I see that you've voted on a number of my AFDs as well, which is very much appreciated. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 13:04, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Does anyone have any more criticisms for Sk8erPrince or can everyone just move on with their life? We've all been new to Wikipedia at some point. The mass deletion was worrying, but I see no reason to not just let this user figure out Wikipedia for himself on his own pace. I'm rather sad with how all of this turned out. Many articles on seiyuu deserve to be looked at because I agree with Prince: if all we can write about these people is a list of appearances, we can just leave it all to IMDb and MyAnimeList. Animosity doesn't bring us anywhere, though, and it's fine if the majority of the AfDs don't go through. At least it's a learning experience. ~Mable (chat) 12:52, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree and concur completely. I'd also like to request this discussion be closed, since an admin has already intervened in the situation (see my talk page). I see no further need for discussion, as it will lead to even more unnecessary tension. Thank you. --Sk8erPrince (talk) 13:00, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Creating a list of anime that's consistently ranked the best by critics

I'm considering making an article which is similar to List of video games considered the best but for anime. The video game article was nominated for deletion before for possible policy violation but the decision was it is okay to keep it. Do you think this type of content would be appropriate for anime? One issue I'm having now is finding reliable sources of 'best of' lists. I have tried going through the sites at WP:A&M/ORS but the sites that have 'best of' lists only do it for particular years and not all time. -Enkuklopaideia (talk) 08:04, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Oh boy, not one of these again. I've actually made such a list in the past and I've regretted it eversince ^_^; But sure, if people can find a good number of sources, I don't see why not. ~Mable (chat) 08:08, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

I think one possible problem with this is that the sources would be disproprtionally Western, which would be strange given that anime is originally a Japanese medium. Most online review sites are non-Japanese in origin, and unless such an article would be boosted by Japanese sources it would be a very Western-centric article; there are anime which were not well-received in the West but were well-received in Japan, and vice-versa. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:17, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree that this balance has to be struck well. We already have way too strong a western bias. ~Mable (chat) 08:20, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I actually did not consider the western bias issue. If this is the case, I'll first spend more time gathering online and published Japanese articles that are reliable. Once I have a number of them, we can discuss whether the sources are suitable for inclusion. Are there any other things I should pay attention to? Could be related to criteria for selecting sources or the article itself. -Enkuklopaideia (talk) 08:49, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think such a list as encyclopedic. Second, we don't have "meta scores" for anime or manga like we do for video games and films and I also thing it is a bit insulting to the reviewer to reduce their review to a number or "score". Third, I haven't seen many anime or manga critics publish "best of all time" lists. They may do best of season, best of year, or at most best of decade, but a "considered the best" gives the impression that it is the best of all time. —Farix (t | c) 11:43, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Without many "best of all time" lists, it's hard to argue for such an Wikipedia article to be neutral, verifiable, or even notable. If such a thing is rare in anime journalism, then you can argue that it is not worth doing here either. Arguments such as original research and synthesis become easy to make when you base such a list on "best of the decade" lists moreso than "best of all time" lists. If anything, I want to see sources first, and we'll see what we can do second ^_^; ~Mable (chat) 12:13, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

It's too vague at this point. This would be similar to best television shows. There are lots of different major awards that cover such shows though like Emmys, BAFTAs and Golden Globes, but other than that, there are Nielsen ratings for most watched. Are there equivalent awards in anime? However, in looking up information you might be able to beef up reception sections for a bunch of anime shows. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 12:27, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Japan has a number of awards for anime as well, such as the Animation Kobe Awards. Madoka and Shirobako were well-received in Japan, for example. Perhaps coverage on such awards would be a good start? I'm not aware of any reliable Japanese anime review sites, though. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 14:12, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Writing encyclopedic articles on well-established awards is always better than writing an article synthesizing the results of such awards. ~Mable (chat) 14:20, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

If it's for awards then yes there are a lot such as Tokyo Anime Award. What I'm worried with those are the awards are for a particular year and not all time. I agree with the points Farix and Mable brought up that yearly lists may not suitable. The result of those awards are also already on Wikipedia so it might get deleted due to synthesizing. As for TV rating, there's a company called Video Research that releases the top 10 anime weekly. Though those are more for mainstream anime like Sazae-san and not late-night anime most western viewers are used to. Late-night anime ratings used to be released a long time ago but they don't do it now for some reason. There's also Time On rankings where the number of time a show is recorded is used but it's too new (2015?). I'm not sure on how wide-spread or influential that information is too. -Enkuklopaideia (talk) 14:25, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

I would suggest creating it in your userspace so you can work on it. Then, once you have it in a good place, you can invite others to come comment on it and indicate whether it seems appropriate to move to mainspace. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 19:10, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

That's always a good idea, though it's sad to put a lot of work in a draft for an article and finding out that it'll never be fit for the mainspace. ~Mable (chat) 19:20, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

It would only need to be a proof of concept. It doesn't need to be highly populated, just enough to show an example. We can go from there.SephyTheThird (talk) 19:24, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Yup, what Sephy said. I would also be very precise in how you define what is on the page. It might be worth creating a table with multiple columns for various reliable places (magazines, websites...limit it to just top ten from the majors like Animage, Newtype, and Otaku USA, and maybe tie it to the Anime Grand Prix or similar big contests/polls). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:54, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea but I echo what others are saying, @Enkuklopaideia: you have to be very careful to find good sources as we do have a original research/WP:PEACOCK policy here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:32, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Understood, I'll start work on it then. It'll take some time since I'm not good at Japanese (yet!) to go through the sources but this seems like an interesting project to work on. I'll post an update here once I have something satisfactory. -Enkuklopaideia (talk) 12:12, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay and good luck, sources can be found here WP:A&M/ORS if you get stuck. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:55, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Popular pages

The bot stopped to update this page. I think it's an important page so we can always keep a look on the most accessed articles. What can we do? Gabriel Yuji (talk) 17:30, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

This was discussed over at the video game WikiProject a month back. I think the results there were inconclusive. I personally would love for this bot to become active again... ~Mable (chat) 18:06, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Cant we just request a new bot over at WP:TECHPUMP? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:20, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

No, it would be at WP:BOTREQ. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:22, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I knew there had to be a page somewhere for this. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:25, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the VG project discussion about it nor about WP:BOTREQ. As WP:BOTREQ says "If you have a question about one particular bot, it should be directed to the bot owner's talk page or to the Bot Owners' Noticeboard", I've send a message on Mr.Z-man talk page. Thank you, guys. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 18:54, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I would be interested in seeing such statistics for two small WikiProjects I am part of, just so that I can focus more on more active articles. For me personally, this would have an actual effect on my edit habits. I really hope the bot can be reactivated, or a new bot can take its place. ~Mable (chat) 19:05, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Genres in serialization lists

Given previous problems with original research relating to genres and particularly after one editor at Weekly Shonen Jump (magazine) insisted on adding their own interpretations of genres, I took the bold action of removing genres from {{Serialization list}} and updates the documentation accordingly. —Farix (t | c) 12:41, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. I support the removal. The template only seems to be used in nine articles so it's a low-impact change. In addition to the problem of original research, tables are already constrained for space and genres are not vital information; they're going to be mentioned on the individual articles anyway. Opencooper (talk) 13:09, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

"Japanese names" of characters

KilluaX3 (talk · contribs) has been repeatedly adding the "Japanese names" of several characters (in English) to List of Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World- characters. I don't think these names should be given weight in comparison to the official English translations, much less put in the section headers, but in the interest of not starting an edit war, I decided to see what the rest of the community thinks. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 20:39, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

I've reverted to the version using the official names and encourage both editors to discuss the matter on the talk page. —Farix (t | c) 20:44, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict × 1) The additions shown here add nothing and should not be included in the headers or anywhere else. If KilluaX3 wants to add them, s/he will need to get some reliable sources to include them in the body text. Regardless of that, they should absolutely not be in the headers. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:44, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree on that but there are cases where the names would be beneficial. Chobits for example has the character "Sumomo" called "Plum" in the English manga adaptation but not in the anime. I don't know enough about this series to say if these names would be exceptions. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:09, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

The Japanese names are the original ones, and how they are written can be found inside the Japanese LNs character pages. Also, the anime has some names differently in the official website than what the subs have used. According to Re:Zero Wiki's admin, Tappei has made it clear that he knows that the star is "Betelgeuse", however he intentionally uses "Petelgeuse", and it's an important plot point scheduled to be revealed in some future arc. The Japanese names should at least be given an visible mention. KilluaX3 (talk) 21:19, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

References

@KilluaX3: I don't think the admin of a fanwiki can be counted as a reliable source. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 22:01, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Given that the light novels have been published in English, the Yen Press English ones should be the primary reference for character names. The alternative English spellings can be considered for the English anime and manga adaptations. Romanized spellings that appear as on-screen graphics as with that anime website (e.g. Aeka) should not be counted as they are prone to Engrish. However, if as you said, if the author has background notes and blogs about spelling out particular characters in English like Petelgeuse with a "P", then please cite that. I don't see a problem with adding "also: Petelgeuse Romaneeconti" or "anime: Petelgeuse Romaneconti" at the end of the Nihongo. Specific spellings should be discussed on the talk page for the characters list where it is not clear. The only time it would be listed at the header is if it is so radically different from the English version as to cause confusion as with Glitter Force characters. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:16, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

When you say "romanized spellings that appear as on-screen", are you including the Japanese LN character pages in that? KilluaX3 (talk) 22:55, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

In illustrations? Yes, but I don't see any English names on the light novel website for the main characters list: [14]. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 23:42, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

When new characters are introduced in the LN, they appear at the volume's beginning on character page where we can see their design and name written beside it. On volume 4's character page, Felix's nickname is written "Ferris" instead of Felis. Other difference is Puck's name being "Pack" at first volume's character page. These names are also used widely online, so I think it would be good to mention them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KilluaX3 (talk • contribs) 06:54, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Let's discuss this on the talk page. The List of Chobits characters scheme is one way to deal with alternate spellings, as well as the suggestions I had above of making them alts. It should still follow Yen Press's light novel spellings. See also discussion on Talk:Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? as that one also had a bunch of conflicting spellings on character names and terms and involved Yen Press translations on light novels. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:00, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Only one Re:Zero LN volume has been translated though. KilluaX3 (talk) 15:18, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I don't have the book with me currently, but I'm pretty sure it's Puck, not Pack, on the character pages in Yen Press' release. I can check later today. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 15:21, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

KilluaX3 created a chart on the talk page and I've filled in a few of the references. Let's continue discussing there. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:46, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

NTR: Netsuzou Trap

If someone wouldn't mind I just need the article reviewed, I think I got the translation right on the name but am not 100% sure. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:22, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Glossary of anime and manga (again)

Okay I remember at once point that we were going to try to improve this page, but it has only regressed into an WP:OR dumping ground. At this point I want to ask.... do we really need this article? What would a WP:FL look like for this one? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:26, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

You really should link to Glossary of anime and manga in you post so that people don't have to search for the article. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 16:45, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

My apologies, but do you have any feedback? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:11, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

In this case I think the concept of the page is fine, but the execution is not. First thing first, remove any unreliable sources or dubious statements. If it's unsourced but sounds reasonable, we can add the sources later. Some of the listings are reasonable, some are rather stretching it into specialist territory. Let's not reflect on the potential for a FL, that isn't a reasonable measure of usefulness. I've added it to my watchlist and can take a look at making some improvements in a few days.SephyTheThird (talk) 17:37, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

So you are sure it wouldn't fall under WP:NOTDIRECTORY? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:10, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm neutral at this point as to it's usefulness. There is a possibility of redirects/merging to this list. Or expanding with background info. I doubt I would try to keep the article in an AFD but I think we should consider the possibility of improving it first.We just shouldn't measure it against the chances of an FL.SephyTheThird (talk) 18:17, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree that it doesn't have to be a FL but I do still have my concerns. I will wait for others to weigh in as well as im in no hurry to place this up for AfD if it can be salvaged. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:35, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Taking a look at that list, it actually doesn't look that bad to me. The majority of the entries are blue-linked, so it would seem to me that it meets WP:LISTPURP as a navigational list. I think this makes a good corollary to Category:Anime and manga terminology, since the list can give a very short explanation of each term, which isn't possible with just the category. However, I think the list needs to be limited to notable or significant terms. Terms that have their own articles are probably appropriate, but anything that is unsourced and doesn't have its own article should probably be removed. If it is unsourced in the list but has its own article, then hopefully the article would have a source that could be used in the list (if not, then that is another problem to address). I know there are some things that were merged to the list at AFD, and maybe those could stay if they are sourced, but it might be better to limit it to things with articles (perhaps those should have been merged elsewhere e.g., yandere -> tsundere rather than to the list). I also think we should make sure any page we link to is anime/manga related, and not something like how "raw" currently links to uncompressed video even though that page has nothing to do with anime/manga and doesn't really relate to how "raw" is being used in this case. But overall I think the concept of the list is good and that it just needs some pruning and sourcing. Calathan (talk) 20:05, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I've commented in embedded notes for some of the entries to Anime Herald. As a glossary, not every entry needs to be explicitly cited. However, there are a bunch of crufty trivia statements that should be scrubbed. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 21:42, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Calathan. It's a good list with a few small problems. I don't see it as needing to go to AfD as it would easily pass as Calathan indicated (WP:LISTPURP). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:07, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

First issue of the manga vs tankobon

When I saw a fellow user adding the first Weekly Shonen Jump of Dragon Ball, I wondered if we should replace tankobon some articles with others issues of the magazine. Some look good better than the first tankobon with the first Gintama issue having the three main characters in contrast to the volume that only had Gintoki Sakata. However, the debut of Katekyo Hitman Reborn! was completely overshadowed by an important Bleach chapter apparently as seen here. Any suggestions?Tintor2 (talk) 14:25, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Im not quite following what you are saying, are you talking about which should take preference in the article's infobox? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:55, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

In either "Manga" section of the article (although some new franchises that have been split like Dragon Ball use it another section.Tintor2 (talk) 23:31, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I did a revision in Gin Tama's article to focus more on the article based on some recent new manga oriented articles. What do you think? Should I revert it or keep it?Tintor2 (talk) 01:07, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I see what you mean now, no I don't personally agree as the series with multiple media tend to act more like franchises. Dividing it this way also in my view would flow into the writing and also separate those as well. Policy-wise WP:UNDUE might be in play as we would be giving one work preference over the others, in some cases the anime ends up being more notable. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:18, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I want to add that it is best in my opinion to do what you did if the series is a huge one. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:20, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I see. I'll revert it then (haven't found a single interview about the anime adaptations) but can the original shonen image stay?Tintor2 (talk) 01:22, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Yeah of course, and okay. Others can feel free to weigh in as well this is just how I feel. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:41, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Crunchyroll/Funimation partnership

Since Crunchyroll moved into licensing and partnered with Funimation, it's going to be difficult to tell who licensed an anime series: is the series licensed by Funimation, or by Crunchyroll and distributed by Funimation? I noticed a major edit war about this going on at Alderamin on the Sky. Unfortunately, I think the IP was correct: according to this article (in the first paragraph under "Home Video Distribution") Alderamin is listed as one of the titles that has been licensed by Crunchyroll but will be distributed by Funimation. I think the WikiProject should have a discussion about how we intend to handle cases such as this. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 14:38, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

The issue came up on ReLIFE as well. When I attempted to discuss it with the person who kept reverting I was ignored which was uncharacteristic of that user (I also suggested a consensus should be sought). The page was later protected over edit warring, unsurprisingly on the claim that Funi is the license holder. Both ANN and Funimation have implied that Funimation are acting on Crunchyroll's license for these shows and others. The problem is partly that Crunchyroll is still considered a streaming rights holder when in reality they can quite easily own all English language rights which they then sublicense. As licensors are traditionally (but not always) the people publishing those works there is a lot of assumption going on here that Funimation own the home rights. The reality seems to be that Funimation are acting as dubbing studio, publisher and possibly distributor which is unusual. other companies have often distributed the works of their "competitors" (i.e. Geneon did lots of distributing) but this is a new arrangement.SephyTheThird (talk) 14:47, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Pinging @TheFarix and Landingdude13: as they seem to be doing most of the reverting. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 16:00, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Problematic IP user

• 112.201.70.203 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 112.201.91.112 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 112.201.92.58 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 124.83.21.127 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 124.83.21.182 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 124.83.21.139 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
• 124.84.85.392 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)

There is an anonymous user from the Philippines who appears to have a weird habit of guessing or babelfishing Japanese episode titles; i.e. they are entering episode titles that are valid translations of the English translation of the original Japanese title, but do not actually match the original Japanese title - e.g. they entered "Feelings (感情, Fiiringuzu)" for an Endride episode when the actual title is "Feelings (想い, Omoi)". Warnings have been placed on at least two of their (presumably dynamic) IPs, but they either haven't seen them or are not paying any attention since they have continued doing it. Shiroi Hane (talk) 17:30, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Featured list for removal

I have nominated List of One Piece video games for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Characters

I have just created a new essay on how to deal with stand alone character articles, feel free to chime in with edits as it is very much a work in process. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:00, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

It looks decent and pretty straight forward. It indeed overlaps with the common practices in modern character articles. I've never been a big fan of the "appearances" section as it is used in many articles and believe there may be minor variations in how such articles are constructed, but this essay is fine. Hell, I'm actually not really sure what the purpose of it is, as this format is already so common ^_^; I'm interested in the External Links policy of character articles, though. ~Mable (chat) 20:55, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

You say "passing mentions such as "the characters were good" or "Shinku is the best character" cant be used" but I've always been under the impression that such mentions can be included in the article, they just don't count towards establishing notability. Same thing for non-notable merchandise. Anyway great work! Satellizer el Bridget ^(Talk) 04:16, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Some reviews do not go in-depth enough talking about the individual characters as the reviews are for the season/series/book as a whole. Also thanks, feel free to add any useful info. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:01, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Interesting but the only one I can find for the ones I've been working this. Can wikias be also used as external links? Also, a fellow user from the video games project showed me the article Ellie (The Last of Us) when I asked him advice about FA characters.Tintor2 (talk) 12:35, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Im not sure if wikias can be used as external links as I have seen characters that have more than one wikia created by fans. As for Ellie it appears as if she has American connections so sources were easier to come by in her situation. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:04, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

For wikias, see WP:ELNO #12. with the "substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors" exception. I would think they'd have to have at least as much editor oversight as here or even more stringency for them to be considered. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 13:27, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

You might want to mention there are various methods for grouping chapter/episode references so they don't flood the references section. Some of the GAs keep them with the general references as with Chi (Chobits), but some shorthand schemes such as with gnn/gnr in Allen Walker or "Ref label" in A Town Where You Live are just as effective. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 13:22, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm incredibly in favor of ref grouping like it is done in Allen Walker's article. I've always found that this greatly improves read-ability of the references and it gives much better insight for the actual notability of the character. ~Mable (chat) 13:35, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

I will make a mention. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:40, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

For conception/creation, some good sources are interviews with the creator, character designers, director, voice actors, and the author's blogs and afterwords. They tend to skew the section towards primary sources but that's justified considering what it is covering, much like when a voice actor talks about their childhood or how they got involved in the anime industry. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 13:53, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Feel free to add the info, I am in and out here with work but can edit more later today. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:00, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

By the way, this happened to me some years ago. I nominated Naruto Uzumaki to GA but failed. The reviewer said that the article lacked a proper introduction rather than just jumping to appearances. I created a small description section and it became GA. Maybe we could add something like to the article the guidelines?Tintor2 (talk) 14:13, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out, I added in a lead section to expand upon. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:16, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Proposing a new category

I noticed that there are categories such as "Anime series based on manga" as well as "Anime and manga based on light novels" but I noticed there is no category for "Manga based on anime series" and it seems like that is quite the oversight. Darqcyde (talk) 09:04, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I think that's because it was not quite common, but now it's becoming more frequent. Go ahead. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 17:58, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Characters of SAO link in SAO article

Drmies (talk · contribs), an admin, recently put List of Sword Art Online characters up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Sword Art Online characters, and then he removed the link from the main article. I reverted him, saying that this action could be seen as trying to prevent people from seeing that the list is at AFD, and thus suppressing any relevant discussion at the AFD, but the admin has reverted me again, apparently using his position as an admin to circumvent the AFD process.--十八 02:01, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I placed the link back in, at the very least it should be discussed first per WP:BRD. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:07, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

• Oh please--cry censorship. Go ahead and have your link to "characters" within a "plot" section. Juhachi clearly cannot be bothered to practice decent article writing, in which one would write up a short list of important characters, just like we do in real articles, with a link to that article--if anything in that spin-off, OR, SYNTH, crufty article is worth saving. Instead, they chose to continue the myth that character and plot have everything to do with each other--a common mistake among fans who don't understand the need to verify things--as if the lack of RS requirement for plot also applies to character. Which it does not. But please, Juhachi, call it "suppression" rather than decent article writing. Knowledgekid87, you know better than that, which is why I won't argue with you. Drmies (talk) 02:10, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

• @Drmies: I don't see any reason why the link should be deleted though. I think we all understand your position on the AfD but why get rid of the links pre-maturely? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:12, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I also want to point out that this discussion should be about the addition/removal of "{'{|see also|List of Sword Art Online characters}} from Sword Art Online, we can discuss the AfD at the AfD. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:20, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the AfD, I am merely pointing out--for the fourth time now--that "characters" are not part of "plot". Drmies (talk) 03:33, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

So you are saying that the characters are not part of the plot? In most good articles I have seen the characters are linked via the character list article as there is too much info to fit in on the main article. You have to provide some context about the main characters but at the same time keep the MOS in mind regarding the word limits. The larger the series, the greater need there is for an offshoot article. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:40, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

"Characters" are not "plot". That's pretty basic. I'm not saying that characters don't figure in the plot; that's not what this is about. As I have said two or three times now already, start by writing a brief list of the main characters. And then consider that the other characters are not main characters and really are of no encyclopedic interest. I know anime fans think that every detail, every character, every plot turn is notable, but go look at some articles on some novels--this section is, arguably, already too long. Drmies (talk) 04:04, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't believe it is necessary to engage in personal attacks against a long-standing member of Wikipedia who has written multiple good articles, especially not by an admin. _dk (talk) 04:34, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

_dk, I am a longstanding member with some GAs--what personal attack are you talking about? If I say that I've said something multiple times already, where is the attack? And did you see the very title of this section? "Admin", as if it's some dirty word, and "suppression", as if I'm trying to hide something? That's a blatant violation of AGF, and of WP:TALKNEW, which mandates neutral headings. Drmies (talk) 15:23, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

You are talking about a different ballgame though, novels are of course written works. The issue is that our articles usually combine written works with animated works, movies, and OVAs. You are talking about multiple storylines with different plots which complicates things. Usually the works are bundled together as they are not notable enough for stand alone articles so the character section becomes bloated with multiple plot lines. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:04, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I see it as critically important that a reader be able to read about the characters, if such an article exists, and that he should be aware of such an article at the main topic's page. @Drmies: Where would you place the link which would direct readers to that article's page? It is clearly not an improvement of the encyclopedia to remove that link without also suggesting at least one alternative if not more. --Izno (talk) 15:13, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Izno, I think "critically important" is overstating the case, but hey. In this very thread I have said twice already where such a link can and should be placed. But placing that link involves practicing decent article writing. I see that Knowledgekid has been writing up guidelines for biography articles; clearly they understand decent article writing. I hope they will include something pertinent in that or in the general guideline for such articles. What is striking in many such articles is the overwhelming amount of detail that lacks proper secondary sourcing; there should not be different standards for these articles. Drmies (talk) 15:23, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

@Drmies: Why would you remove the link without also adding a list of characters such as you suggest? I have no problem with the suggestion that WP:SUMMARY should be practiced better (especially by editors writing articles in this WikiProject's purview), but if you're going to cite it as your defense of removal, you should also be prepared to explain why you didn't perform the best-practice article writing work at the same time, and in thus doing so readding the link in the same location as the characters section. Nobody likes a driveby link-remover. :^) --Izno (talk) 15:28, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

The main issue there is a language barrier, I do my best to try to find secondary sources but am reliant on JA: wiki, and google translate. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:30, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, Knowledgekid, but that's problematic in many ways, as I'm sure you realize. One can't rely on sources from another wiki if one doesn't speak/read the language, and one can't rely on another wiki period. Izno, every time I get pinged from here I see this heading about "suppression". That's not cool. Also, I would love to have done what I suggested earlier and what you are now telling me I should have done--but from dozens or hundreds of characters spread out over all these different formats and editions, how am I supposed to pick a half dozen or so important ones? If you know this subject matter, you can do that in less than two minutes--and do it simply and elegantly, with simple bullet points and a sentence or two, no more. Seriously, there's three or four of you here; I hope you're not telling me that none of you, people who are supposed to know the subject matter, are incapable of doing that. You guys are supposed to be the experts... Drmies (talk) 15:35, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

@Drmies: I agree, that's not cool, and I have renamed the section per WP:TPG as a result. It's good to know you could have or would have taken a shot at such a writing if you had a bit more domain expertise. But if that's the case, why not make a suggestion here or at the talk page after you were reverted the first time? Something along the lines of: "I think it's important to follow WP:SUMMARY. I'm concerned that this article does not include any character information, which is why I removed the link. Can I have help with a short section on the characters? I cannot figure out which ones are the main characters very easily but would be happy to help with the summarizing." --Izno (talk) 15:52, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Izno. I thought I indicated the gist of it in this edit summary. BTW, I hope I don't have to explain the OR bit. Good character description doesn't just come from the primary source, whereas plot can. For instance, explaining Queequeg requires proper secondary sourcing, because you have to indicate where the character comes from, what Melville was looking to do with him, etc. It's not a good article. Better is Ishmael (Moby-Dick), which has secondary sourcing discussing the character, its role, its meaning. Explaining "character" is not the same as reporting every detail about that character and listing it in narrative-chronological order. In that respect also it is not like plot. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 16:06, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

@Drmies: But an edit revert isn't a talk page discussion. And I actually don't see how the summary you gave includes even implicitly some of your motivation above. But I think I've said my piece. :) --Izno (talk) 16:19, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I really didn't see this action as pulling rank, and the AFD is underway now. But as for characters being listed under plot, it's fairly typical for manga/anime articles that have a separate characters list article. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 16:17, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Sword Art Online

For some reason I don't get, Drmies also blanked some parts from some SAO characters like Kirito (Sword Art Online).Tintor2 (talk) 15:48, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

• See edit summary. If you can't see that that section contained not character description but plot, then I can't explain it better. Drmies (talk) 15:59, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Except for the fact that viewers need to read about what a character does to understand their role in the context of the series. That's why virtually every fictional character article has an appearance section - like Allen Walker, for example. Or maybe Ivy Valentine, if anime characters aren't your thing. (I just randomly plucked two characters off the top of my mind which I know are GAs.) Also, your wild accusations and assumptions of bad faith, like the borderline-personal-attack "Juhachi clearly cannot be bothered to practice decent article writing", is hardly constructive and unproductive. Check your tone. Satellizer el Bridget ^(Talk) 11:02, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

They're really coming out of the woodwork here. I saw you reverted some cliches as well--"Character X was received in various ways by various critics." That's real GA-writing right there. Drmies (talk) 18:42, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Knights

I was looking sources for Knights by Minoru Murao, and though I've maybe found reviews enough to establish its notability I'm not entirely sure I can use the sources. I've found two reviews by Kuriousity's Shannon Fay [15], [16], two reviews by Ken Haley [17] and two by Connie C [18]. So, two questions: 1) is three reviews for each volume (the series is only two volume long) enough? 2) Kuriousity, Ken Haley and Connie C. are reliable sources? I would say "yes" to both questions. I think all them are non-trivial mentions so it's enough to establish notability. On why they're reliable sources:

• Both Connie C. ([19], [20], [21]) and Ken Haley ([22], [23], [24]) have written for Pop Culture Shock (WP:A&M/ORS) and Comic Book Resources ([25] and [26]);
• Shannon Fay has written for Manga Life ([27], [28]), Animefringe [29] and The Coast [30]. Kuriousity's other contributors like Lissa Pattillo (ANN [31], Otaku USA [32] and The Coast [33]) and Victoria Martin (Manga Life [34]) seem to be reliable too ([35]).

Gabriel Yuji (talk) 23:33, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

The same user again

User talk:119.74.228.225 appears to be the same previous anon that added Levi to Eren Yeager's article as a husband. He also added them to List of Attack on Titan characters. I already warned him twice, but I will be busy today. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 15:51, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Just have them blocked if necessary. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:46, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Eren Yeager article now protected for 3 months. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 05:22, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Fairy Tail character discussion

Hello. I've started another discussion on whether to include or exclude some characters in the List of Fairy Tail characters article. The discussion can be found at Talk:List of Fairy Tail characters#Reevaluating some character importance, again. Feel free to include other characters there as well. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 08:28, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Brave Witches Episode summary discussion

There is a discussion about improving episode summaries in the List of Brave Witches episodes. It can be found at Talk:List of Brave Witches episodes#Episode summaries. Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:53, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Comments regarding List of Naruto characters

Ever since the series Naruto ended, users have been adding new stuff to the list. I requested User:Sjones23 to help me decide what to remove and clean up in order to maintan it as a FL at Talk:List of Naruto characters#Minor character discussion. You are invited to discuss. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 02:04, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Samurai Troopers

Can someone take a look at this? According to ANN the correct magazine was Weekly Shōnen, and I can't find anything about that new "reboot series" as well.--Sakretsu (talk) 20:57, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

As far as I can tell it actually ran in Comic BomBom. This is what Media artsDB says [36] as well as numerous pages on ANN's encyclopaedia ( just as a backup, it wouldn't be reliable by itself). For confirmation I found a manga cover scan that says Comic Bom Bom in the corner [37]. As for the new series remove it as unsourced. I'll add it to my watch list.SephyTheThird (talk) 21:45, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Maybe that's the Shin Yoroiden Samurai Troopers manga listed below? I don't really know, but I'll revert both the IP's edits for the third time...--Sakretsu (talk) 10:00, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Sk8erprince again: time for mentoring?

Once again, Sk8erprince has been nominating articles of clearly notable voice actors for deletion. I honestly think it's time he is mentored about deletion policies to ensure that in the future he will have a clear understanding of the deletion process. Otherwise, it may be time to send him to ANI again, unfortunately. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:17, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

You can't - or at least, shouldn't - force someone into being mentored. How many deletion discussions are we dealing with this time? ~Mable (chat) 13:14, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

GA example

It's been long since I worked in a series' article and I noticed how different was Shaman King from older GAs like Gin Tama. I'm currently working on D.Gray-man and wondered if I should keep it like D.Gray-man in its current state or modifying it to make it look like Shaman King. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 14:48, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Standards change, especially I would think with GAs due to the largely individual nature of the reviews. I would use the newer article as the target. Some of our older GA's should be considered for either internal project review or a exterior review. I know of a couple that are probably worth a second look. SephyTheThird (talk) 15:27, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

I see. I tried reorganizing it like Shaman King. Still, I left a request for copy-edit in the guild some weeks ago so I'll nominate to GA later. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 16:21, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it matters here, a WP:GA is a WP:GA. Go with the style you like best. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:21, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Madoka soundtrack

A new fellow user joined Wikipedia with the objective of creating a soundtrack article of Madoka Magica. As he asked for help, I brought him a bit of reception while another fellow user provided information about how the Kujira produced the music. The discussion is in Talk:Puella Magi Madoka Magica#Soundtracks. Feel free to join. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 14:41, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Re:Zero plot summary

I started discussion on the article's talk page with the goal of expanding the plot summary to something of reasonable length. This is a part of a goal to eventually nominate the article for Good Article status. Further input is welcome. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 15:49, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Citations removal by a rookie user

Can anyone keep an eye on this user? This user is always removes the citation and/or brokes the {{Voiced by}}/{{animevoices}} template or parameters when adding the dub voice actors. Marlin Setia1 (talk) 10:48, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Looking through his recent edits I think the simplest thing would simply be to engage with them. I don't believe its malicious and this would appear to be a basic case of simply speaking to them to educate them.SephyTheThird (talk) 11:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Shinnosuke Furumoto

This one is a bit odd to me as this person appears to have played major roles in multiple series but no sources are present. I checked ja: wiki, and found nothing but haven't started looking for sources online (I cant right now). Maybe some exist in magazines? I could use some insight on this one on what to do if no sources turn up. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:19, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

He's in VADB [38] and Hitoshi Doi's Seiyuu Database [39] the latter of which has magazine articles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:18, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay thanks for the heads up! =) - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:24, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Why is iXIT Corporation (formerly Index Corporation) watched by WikiProject Anime and manga?

Hi there, I was just dabbling around and I found that this community has tabs on iXIT Corporation. I just wanted to let you know that, this former Index Corporation company is no longer a mass media conglomerate. In its current iteration, Its an Information and Communications Technology (I.T.) company. It has no affiliation with Manga or Anime as this business is no longer involved or contributing with that industry. I highly recommend that the watch is removed in the articles talk page simply due to the fact that the company in its current iteration is completely unrelated to Manga and Anime. Thank you. Iftekharahmed96 (talk) 20:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Speaking personally I object to the term "has tabs on", it could be read negatively even if not meant in that way. Setting that aside, I'm not really sure why we should remove the project template simply because the company has changed it's focus and sold off it's animanga assets. They used to be involved in the areas we cover, so are we supposed to simply forget that now the business has changed direction? After all, this is Wikipedia so it stands to reason that we would keep involved with history. The article does still list former subsidiaries after all. I'm not seeing any reason to remove the project banner just because that aspect of the business is in the past. We can still be involved in the article to keep the history of the company. I actually think it's more surprising the Video game project didn't have their banner on it. SephyTheThird (talk) 21:38, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

My apologies if there were any negative connotations associated with the post that I've provided: that was not my intention at all. I was also unaware that this community still keep an eye on pages that were formerly animanga. I'll update the talk page so that a video game banner is eventually provided on it. Thank you very much for your response; it's genuinely appreciated. Iftekharahmed96 (talk) 13:26, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

s-CRY-ed's creation

I was going to clean up the article s-CRY-ed but just when I was going to finish the reception and trim the in-universe information, I realized there was nothing about its creation. Anybody knows a site that might have it? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 02:28, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Also, I've been meaning to create the episode list since the current article only has the titles but I haven't found anything about across the internet. To make it worse, I heard the series aired in Cartoon Network so I'm more lost. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 13:17, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject Anime and manga/Archive 67 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

• Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 17:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Lotte_no_Omocha!

Is Lotte_no_Omocha! notable? I couldn't find anything that looked like a reliable source in English or Japanese, but I know very little about the subject. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 03:19, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Did you try WP:A&M/ORS? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

I've seen a few reviews of it on Anime News Network. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 05:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

ANN seems to have a decent number of articles about it, including how its DVD sales are charted. It has both an anime and a manga series. Here's a review from THEM Anime Reviews if you need something besides ANN [40] AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:57, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

A Town Where You Live

This article, which is currently a good article, seems to have a number of problems; in fact, unless these issues are addressed soon, I'm considering taking this to GAR. Firstly, the lede seems a little short for an anime/manga GA; normally they are more fleshed out. The second, and perhaps the most glaring, is that there is no information in the article whatsoever about the series' creation, development, and production. Finally, the reception section is rather short, consisting of only a single paragraph. Could the regulars here try to address the article's issues? Right now it looks more like a B-class article than a GA. Pinging Sjones23, Tintor2, Juhachi, TheFarix, and AngusWOOF. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 12:16, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't know about the series, but I wonder if the anime episode list could be split and be given summaries.Tintor2 (talk) 12:54, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Pinging DragonZero as the primary author. There isn't much content on the development and production of the series. It is set in the same place as his preceding work Suzuka, and there's a story arc where the main character moves into the same apartment complex. As for the episode list it's fine as is. 12 episodes + OVA isn't enough to warrant a split article. But GA process involves other Wikiprojects so perhaps the content was good enough to get it to GA. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:33, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't know much about the series either. I would get rid of, or reword; "Reception towards the manga was mixed with reviewers praising the plot for its realism or panning it as predictable and cliché" from the lead as it really is up to the reader (not the editor's) point of view. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:42, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello. The lead appropriately sums up all points of the article. The article doesn't have much content, so the lead doesn't have much either. The second point, there is no information because that information does not exist (at the time of the nomination anyways); it's been a while since I've been up to date on the series. I usually do massive research during the process up to GA and usually don't recheck for updates. The reception is short since it doesn't have an English physical release. Jason's 1000 manga is the exception here. I'd also prefer the old structure and would like it if you would revert it NlH5. If you feel it fails the GA rankings, you can submit it to GAR. I'm not sure how much I'd fight for it though. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 20:47, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

The anime at least does have a physical English release now, and I remember seeing a review of it on Anime News Network. That could be used to add to the reception section. Calathan (talk) 20:55, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. I guess I'll do and update run at some point for the article. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 20:59, 8 December 2016 (UTC)