View source for Talk:PCCW

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{{WikiProject Hong Kong |importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Business |importance=}}
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{{copied|from=PCCW-HKT Telephone |to=PCCW|date=18 March 2018}}
{{connected contributor
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==(no title)==
This article is not always very well written. Unless somebody knows the real story it will be difficult to edit it correctly since it is not clear what the original writer meant to say.  An example: "Many in Hong Kong cried cronyism, as Hong Kong chief executive Tung Chee Hwa gave away the land to his new high-tech residential and commercial venture called Cyberport."  The only person mentioned in the paragraph in which this sentence appears is Tung Chee Hwa. So the pronoun "he" in this sentence would ordinarily be interpreted to refer to Tung Chee Hwa.  But giving government property to '''yourself''' is not ordinarily called cronyism. So maybe "he" refers to Li?  

Another problem.  This article is largely composed of one-sentence paragraphs. When every sentence is a paragraph then every sentence is strung together into one large paragraph.  Sentences need to be grouped together into groups that fit together to establish a single block in the whole structure of the article.  [[User:Kim é‡‘|&#37329;]] 14:43, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
==(no title, 2)==
The name of the company was officially changed from Pacific Century Cyberworks Limited to PCCW Limited.  &mdash; [[User:Instantnood|Insta]][[User_talk:Instantnood|ntnood]] 17:30, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
==(no title, 3)==
How about CSL and Sunday in mobile telecom?  &mdash; [[User:HenryLi|HenryLi]] ([[User talk:HenryLi|Talk]]) 15:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
:-CSL is now not part of PCCW, and Sunday is now renamed to PCCW mobile [[User:Bloodstriker|Bloodstriker]] ([[User talk:Bloodstriker|talk]]) 17:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

::CSL was a former subsidiary in 2007 (and present second-tier subsidiary in 2019). Whatever it is former or current subsidiary or not, they should be mentioned. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 17:13, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

==(no title, 4)==
I think this page deserves criticisms of PCCW services [[User:Bloodstriker|Bloodstriker]] ([[User talk:Bloodstriker|talk]]) 17:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

:If it had [[WP:reliable source]] to [[WP:verify]] as well as [[WP:DUE]], then it should be included. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 17:14, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

== Lack of references ==

This article majorly lacks references. Entire sections could be deleted because of this issue. 8-9 sentences without even a single proof of the correctness? That goes against wikipedia guidelines. 22 references for an article that is so long could shrink down to 22 sentences!  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/114.255.53.7|114.255.53.7]] ([[User talk:114.255.53.7|talk]]) 09:52, 16 January 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== External links modified ==

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== External links modified ==

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160104231855/http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=30&art_id=81081&sid=23531732&con_type=1&d_str=20090421&sear_year=2009 to http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=30&art_id=81081&sid=23531732&con_type=1&d_str=20090421&sear_year=2009
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160405171306/http://www2.pccwmobile.com/ to http://www.pccwmobile.com/
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== PCCW Engineering (CASCADE) ==
<div class="boilerplate archived" style="background-color: #EDEAFF; padding: 0px 10px 0px 10px; border: 1px solid #8779DD;">{{Quote box
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  | quote = See the RfC close [[#RfC for sections of this article that about the second-tier subsidiaries|below]].<p>[[User:Cunard|Cunard]] ([[User talk:Cunard|talk]]) 23:45, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
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{{reply|Stevenhksar}} It is too long to discuss in your talk page. So far you did not state any [[WP:reliable source]] to prove CASCADE = PCCW Engineering, which internal email is NOT a reliable source.

Despite it is a [[primary source]] , entry in Hong Kong Companies Registry, shown CASCADE Limited is CASCADE Limited. It did not have name change. It did not prove CASCADE = PCCW Engineering nor disprove CASCADE had a [[trading name]] or not, but no source is no source.

Also, it is against wiki policy to preform blanking if such blanking is disputed. Please form consensus with me or ask [[Wikipedia:Third opinion]] or [[WP:RfC]] or [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard]] for more users to participate to form a consensus .

May rationale is , the current content of the section [[PCCW#Cascade]] was about PCCW forming a wholly owned subsidiary Cascade Limited and centralize its work force of repairing department to this subsidiary in 2002 (see [http://the-sun.on.cc/channels/fina/20021118/20021118020518_0002.html] and [https://www.scmp.com/article/399162/pccws-staff-cascade]). And i had dig out a pre-list prospectus of [[HKT Limited]], which claimed Cascade Limited is transferred to HKT. However, pre-list documents are draft that subject to change, as well it is a primary source. (see also [[WP:primary source]]). Thus, Cascade Limited ''may'' be now owned by [[HKT Limited]] which formed in 2008, but since HKT Limited is a subsidiary of PCCW, making Cascade Limited ''may'' be a [[Subsidiary#Tiered subsidiaries|second-tier]] subsidiary of PCCW. It is totally legit to keep a brief summary for the second-tier subsidiaries of PCCW in this article that about [[PCCW]] group. 

Since you have a limited English , i had opened a RfC for you. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 09:50, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


For your refernce , below data is from 
[[:File:PCCW-CASCADE.jpg]]From HKT group Intranet ; I will remove it after your reply .
'''[REMOVED - Oshwah]'''
Answer 1: [[PCCW#Cascade]] was about PCCW forming a wholly owned subsidiary Cascade Limited and centralize its work force of repairing department to this subsidiary in 2002 .
2. PCCW AND HKT[HKTG] RELATIONSHIP NOT YOUR THINK REALTIONSHIP. FRIST Simple said Cascade Limited is PCCW-HKT[HKT] ENGINEER DEPARTMANT BEFORE 2002, 2002 MAKE CHANGE TO BE A 100% OWN- SUB COMPANY AND 2008 CANCEL THE OLD POLICY AND REBUILD HKT group,
so   Cascade Limited  get back to HKT[HKTG] Group and Change the name to PCCW ENGINNER AND change to HKT ENGINEER SINCE HKT BACK TO STOCK MARKET.FOR  Cascade Limited HAS CACNEL THE REGISTER AND NOT USE MORE.

IF YOU WANT A DATA PHOTO FROM HKT  INTRANET CAN PROVE AND SEND LINK  TO YOU ; IS GOOGLE DRIVE OK?, BUT FOR WIKI UPLORD I DON'T THINK SO....  ([[User talk:stevenhksar hk|talk]]) 00:30, 17 March 2019 (UTC+8) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Stevenhksar|Stevenhksar]] ([[User talk:Stevenhksar#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevenhksar|contribs]]) 17:04, 16 March 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:{{reply|Stevenhksar}}, you can't use internal email as reference. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 17:06, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

:Also, according to the prospectus <ref>{{cite book|type=prospectus |url=http://www3.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/SEHK/2011/1116/LTN20111116015.pdf|title=Global Offering|date=16 November 2011|access-date=16 March 2019|publisher=HKT Limited c/o HKT Trust|via=Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing website}}</ref> page 166, yes Cascade Limited was owned by HKTGH, but at page 167 "The Pre-IPO Restructuring comprises two stages: Stage 1: Transfer of certain businesses out of HKTGH, such that HKTGH will hold only the Telecommunications Business.", so it was unable to tell Cascade Limited is a present subsidiary of HKTGH (HKT Limited) or not. 

:What more importantly , this article can have a brief section about the second-tier subsidiaries of PCCW (the first-tier subsidiaries of HKT Limited), and this is the whole point of RfC. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 17:52, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, you can still said  this article is important, but the real world has change since 2008.,now is 2019, still important?
https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipOqfylNRHeMi2Hyb8lUN2AQ_5Jmvw8eF-cF1nln   [HKTGroup intranet copy]  by the way, if you still request second resources from
others or media , It would BE Marginal fish .

For other copy page from intranet, you can reference that Engineer intra page is Under PCCW-HKT page.this is not MEAN PCCW-HKT[TELEPHONE], this IS MEAN PCCW-HKT Group[HKTG\HKT Trust \HKT Limited] https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipOKUTXeGI2gGQS_y-Usd2mk3rKGfIpbBkkdn1iO

Finally , here is HKT Group and PCCW Group chart for you reference. https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipPTt0vDhj5IJw3nSNtuOH030U1eqZ4aVZI3PIr_
https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipNWFVdfXpX_rI6sVZi6oCv6QEIWuiCy3LBSOth9

Based on http://www3.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2011/0925/ltn20110925015.pdf  .page: — II-82 —

"The employees in the Telecommunications Group are employed by a separate service
company, HKT Services Limited, which is indirectly wholly-owned by HKT." has said clear for woker in HKT group since 2008 


([[User talk:stevenhksar hk|talk]]) 08:18, 17 March 2019 (UTC)  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Stevenhksar|Stevenhksar]] ([[User talk:Stevenhksar#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevenhksar|contribs]]) </small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::It is called [[WP:original research]] with way too much interpretation on primary source. Please read [[WP:primary source]] guideline. There is no source with a plain statement "Cascade became PCCW Engineering in X year" in secondary source or [[publish]]ed primary source.

::Also, the main point is, whatever the direct parent company of PCCW Engineering/Cascade was (or did PCCW Engineering = Cascade or not), there is no point of just blank it in this article [[PCCW]]. PCCW Engineering/Cascade is still a division /second-tier subsidiary of PCCW. It may better trim more and expand more in [[HKT Limited]] or leave it as it, that the point of RfC. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 12:33, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

{{talkref}}
===RfC for sections of this article that about the second-tier subsidiaries===
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RfC on sections of this article that about the second-tier subsidiaries:

A. keeping a brief summary in this article for the second-tier subsidiaries. Or

B. just like {{u|Stevenhksar}}, [[Special:Diff/887194189]], [[Special:Diff/887194125]], remove/blanking the sections about the second-tier subsidiaries (including Cascade Limited which had a disputed status as first tier or second tier or not) and expand the sections in [[Hong Kong Telecom]] instead. 

C. Other proposal.

[[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 09:50, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

=== Survey ===

* '''Option A''' as an inclusionist when it comes to corporate structure and ownership, I prefer more information to less. I was asked here by the RFC bot. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 04:27, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
* '''Option A''' - summoned by bot. I like to include subsidiary info, summarized and with links if they have their own articles, with more detail if they don't. If it's uncertain that a subsidiary is actually a subsidiary, and there are no sources, then don't include the subsidiary.  One source saying it's a subsidiary is enough to warrant inclusion. Please clarify if I'm missing the point here. [[User:Timtempleton|<b style="color:#7F007F">TimTempleton</b>]] [[User talk:Timtempleton|<sup style="color:#800080">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Timtempleton|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 22:17, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Option A''' is better.  (invited by the bot)  I think that the way that this is worded may lead to conflicting interpretations of whichever result.  I'm reading option A as "don't avoid brief 2nd tier mentions"  <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> ([[User talk:North8000#top|talk]]) 16:01, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
::May be my wording is unclear. PCCW was established in 1999 (year of [[reverse IPO]]) and acquired HKT in 2000. The brand HKT was retired and new subsidiaries were established under the prefix "PCCW", workforce of HKT were fully reorganised into PCCW group. And then HKT was re-birthed in 2008 and in 2011 as another listed company (my so called ''[[Matryoshka doll|Matryoshka]]'' of companies). Since PCCW still majority owned HKT (>50.1%), and some subsidiaries are unable to determinate their fate: Cascade, or named after PCCW: PCCW Global, it seem to me it should kept the brief description of those subsidiaries of HKT in this wiki article that was about the PCCW group (PCCW and HKT and other subsidiaries). Or may be other editors may find out moving those content to HKT and leaving an even shorter (may be just name) description in this wiki article, would kept this article in a reasonable length. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 17:37, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
:::Yes - unfortunately the language barrier is difficult.  I tried to rewrite the poorly written [[PCCW#HKT (Hong Kong Telecom)]] section but am not familiar enough with the group to determine if I captured the info correctly. [[User:Timtempleton|<b style="color:#7F007F">TimTempleton</b>]] [[User talk:Timtempleton|<sup style="color:#800080">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Timtempleton|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 00:07, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' {{sbb}} &ndash; Just a note to say that I couldn't really understand what the Rfc question is, so I gave up and have no [[!vote]]. Otoh, [[User talk:North8000|North8000]] and [[User:Timtempleton|Timtempleton]] seem to have understood it, and perhaps you ([[User:Matthew hk]]) could consult with them on new wording ([[#Rfc wording|below]]) and modify the Rfc question for clarity, in order to gain more eyeballs and [[!vote]]s here. <small>(There's a [[WP:TPO]] issue in their altering it directly, and a possible [[WP:REDACT]] issue in your altering it, but I think the latter would be okay in the interest of clarity if you follow the REDACT rules (use <s>strikeout</s> and <u>underscore</u> to clearly indicate what you changed) especially if North and Tim were okay with coming back to review/confirm their original [[!vote]] after any change in the Rfc statement.)</small> If you do change it, please {{tl|ping}} me and I'll have another look. Thanks and good luck, [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 17:37, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

=== Discussion ===

==== Rfc wording ====

It sounds like this Rfc is a section re-org question about moving existing article content around, from one subsection to another without changing any content, but it doesn't say that, and I'm not really sure.  Or, is it about removing content?  Please make a clear statement about exactly what the goal of this Rfc is, and lay out your three options clearly. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 17:37, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

:The rfc was due to {{noping| Stevenhksar}} of total wipe of any trace of content of HKT's subsidiaries from this article PCCW. So, it may be not 0 to 1 question, but how long or brief the content (for HKT's subsidiaries) should be in this article that about PCCW group, parent company of the HKT group. 

:See his more earlier edits [[Special:Diff/887194189]], [[Special:Diff/887194391]] and [[Special:Diff/887194505]] and at the same time at HKT: [[Special:Diff/887194125]], [[Special:Diff/887194349]], [[Special:Diff/887194594]] on 11 March 2019. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 18:02, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
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== Edit request on section PCCW Engineering ==

{{Edit fully-protected|answered=yes}}

Change the section "PCCW Engineering" to Cascade . The citation did not said Cascade = PCCW Engineering.

Also delete 
<blockquote>"Started from December 2008, Cascade became a Subsidiary of PCCW-HKT Limited, which PCCW-HKT is still 100% owned by PCCW. The name of Cascade is removed from now on, become a part of HKT and named as "Engineering", a business unit of PCCW-HKT, simply like Commercial group of PCCW. All staff in Cascade had transferred to PCCW-HKT without changing."</blockquote>

It did not supported by the existing citation either. Add <ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.scmp.com/article/399162/pccws-staff-cascade|title=PCCW'S STAFF IN CASCADE|date=30 November 2002|access-date=11 March 2019|newspaper=South China Morning Post|location=Hong Kong}}</ref> as additional citation for the date of establishment.  [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 12:18, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

:or at least add {{t|not in source}} or move the cite to the mid of the paragraph and add {{t|cn}} to 2008 contents. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 13:09, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
{{reftalk}}
::[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{tlx|edit protected}} template.<!-- Template:EP --> Administrators are not allowed to edit a fully-protected page to continue an edit war. [[User:Reaper Eternal|Reaper Eternal]] ([[User talk:Reaper Eternal|talk]]) 01:17, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
:::You'll also be able to make changes yourself in about twelve hours, so if nobody objects, and it looks like this has been sitting awhile with no discussion, you might be able to just do it. [[User:Reaper Eternal|Reaper Eternal]] ([[User talk:Reaper Eternal|talk]]) 01:20, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

== "Main business" section ==

After [[Special:Permalink/812831301]] the "main business" of PCCW became unclear, it seem incorrectly shown the company only had one business called "Commercial and international business".

However, in fact PCCW had telecommunication business that was separately listed as [[HKT Limited]], as well as wholly owned PCCW Media (Now TV, ViuTV), as well as real estate (as listed subsidiary Pacific Century Premium Developments). It may need more citation for PCCW Solutions is belongs to which sub-holding company, but "Main business" section and "Brands and services" section of the article should be merged. [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] ([[User talk:Matthew hk|talk]]) 14:52, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* [[commons:File:PCCW.svg|PCCW.svg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2020-09-05T20:52:47.883019 | PCCW.svg -->
Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:PCCW.svg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 20:52, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

== New Lenovo PCCW Solutions Info Box ==

Hi. My name is Stuart and I work for Lenovo. Currently, the page has a section called "Lenovo PCCW Solutions" that has a tiny box with a logo image. I'd like to suggest replacing the logo with a proper infobox (that I'll add an updated logo to) as follows: 
{{collapse top}}
{{Infobox company
| name = Lenovo PCCW Solutions Limited
| logo = 
| former_name = Unihub
| type = [[Limited company]]
| industry = [[Information Technology]]
| foundation = August 15, 2022
| location = [[Hong Kong]], [[China]]
| key_people = Jerry Li, Chief Executive Officer
| revenue = 
| operating_income = 
| net_income = 
| owner = Lenovo (84%) and PCCW (16%)
| parent = 
| homepage = {{URL|https://www.pccwsolutions.com}}
}}
{{collapse bottom}}

In compliance with WP:COI, I'm asking that an impartial editor consider making the update. Best regards. [[User:StuartGill|StuartGill]] ([[User talk:StuartGill|talk]]) 15:18, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
:{{Done}} [[User:Whoisjohngalt|Whoisjohngalt]] ([[User talk:Whoisjohngalt|talk]]) 18:17, 26 July 2023 (UTC)