Talk:Giannis Antetokounmpo

Antetokounmpo's nationality in infobox/lede

Antetokounmpo is a naturalized citizen of both Greece and Nigeria, which means he has two nationalities, not just one. The infobox and lede need to state both of his nationalities in chronological order to be in line with WP:NPOV. It is factually incorrect as it stands right now. Retrofan781 (talk) 22:17, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

References

Oppose: MOS:ETHNICITY [...]Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability FMSky (talk) 23:13, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Does not apply: #1. The previous nationality/place of birth would be Greek in his case. #2. His Nigerian nationality is relevant to his notability per the news articles shown above and countless others. #3. Per WP:NPOV [...]This policy is non-negotiable, and the principles upon which it is based cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, nor by editor consensus. Retrofan781 (talk) 00:18, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

@SilentResident The argument was he has dual citizenship. You created a false argument based on ethnicity that neither @Ampimd nor I made, and then argued against it. That's a strawman. Retrofan781 (talk) 01:50, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

@Retrofan781:: is there a reason why you deleted his widely used nickname from the lead? please put it back in ffs. its bad enough already that forcefully put nigerian in there even though 3 different people had reverted it FMSky (talk) 02:56, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

@Bagumba:: shouldnt the version BEFORE the edit war be restored? FMSky (talk) 03:03, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

FMSky: WP:PREFER doesn't seem to directly apply here. The page has long sourced in the body that he has a Nigerian passport. The dispute is whether that belongs in the lead sentence and infobox. The current banner on the page says: "This protection is not an endorsement of the current version." Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 04:44, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

@FMSky Because it was unsourced and not entirely accurate. He goes by that nickname because people for the longest time couldn't say his last name. Retrofan781 (talk) 05:03, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

 Comment: Retrofan781 has violated Wikipedia's rules and I had to throw a warning on his Talk page for editwarring with several other editors and breaking the 3 Rever Rule: [1]. I highly recommend that the particular editor refrains from further disruptive edit warrings with others who may not share his biased edits and seek WP:CONSENSUS for applying the chances they seek to the article, or else I will report them to the ANI. Now, regarding Giannis Antetokounmpo, editor Retrofan is showing clear signs of bias here because they are not only violating WP:ETHNICITY guidelines for the lead section of the article, but also they have removed information not related to the ethnicity, such as the nickname "Greek Freak". WP:ETHNICITY clearly states that: "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable. For guidance on historic place name versus modern-day names, see WP:MODERNPLACENAME." The country, region or territory the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, are Greece, not Nigeria. Giannis was born in Greece, grew and lived there in his whole life before becoming famous and traveling to the USA. His fame and career begun in Greece when he was teenager. When he became 23 years old, he emigrated to the United States. The Nigerian passport was given to him by the time he emigrated to the USA and does not dictate what Giannis's country of birth, nationality and permanent residence were. Many people may have multiple passports for business or career purposes, but Wikipedia has to be careful here to not confuse the nationality of people and the country they were born and resided in, with the passports they may get later in their lives as part of their careers. Furthermore it should not be neglected that that Giannis visited his parent's homeland, Nigeria, only after he emigrated to the US where he continued his career, and the visit was a brief one: he doesn't reside here nor was part of his career that made him notable. The reason of the visit to Nigeria was a personal one: to see his grandparents and his family's roots. Simple as that. A single visit to Nigeria for 24 hours, IMO, does not suffice to overwrite everything else about Giannis's life, be it birthplace, residence, career and notability. Retrofan781 also removed without any valid explanation the nickname "Greek Freak" Giannis has obtained and is part of his notability, which shows the editor's edits have nothing to do with facts and sources. This is simply editorial bias, and this is unacceptable.

The editor had cited WP:NPOV to justify their edit warring and particularly the part where it says "This policy is non-negotiable, and the principles upon which it is based cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, nor by editor consensus." to convince us that editorial opinion of the other editors who disagree with their edits, do not matter here; only their own editorial opinion matters, and that no consensus is required for their problematic edits because they are "right" and the rest of us who disagree with that editor, are "wrong". But I am afraid this is not the purpose of the NPOV policy. The NPOV policy is to make sure that all the information is presented neutrally to the article, and it already is: information about Giannis's Nigerian roots are already covered by the article. Noting Giannis's birthplace and home of residence was Greece, should not be perceived as POV, because it is a fact and has nothing to do with neutrality here.

For these aforementioned reasons, when the article is unlocked, the editor's problematic edits will be reverted. I suggest the editor Retrofan781 refrains from further unconstructive edits such as these, and avoids reinstating these edits unless they 1) have the required consensus and 2) they present us strong and indisputable sources confirming that Nigeria was Gianni's birthplace and not Greece, that he lived in Nigeria and not Greece, and that his career and notability begun in Nigeria and not Greece, and last, Nigeria is somehow more weighting on Gianni's notability other than being of Nigerian descent from his parents's side, to warrant inclusion to the lead section. I am afraid, such sources do not exist, as I have searched extensively both the sources present on the article and on the web but I wouldn't find any. Good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 05:59, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

@SilentResident: ... when the article is unlocked, the editor's problematic edits will be reverted ... It's premature to say what the consensus will be when the article is unlocked. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 07:19, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

There's not a single reason to not have his nickname in there. Please restore it FMSky (talk) 07:27, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with FMSky, the nickname is removed without reason, probably because the editor Retrofan781 WP:DIDNTLIKEIT that the nickname contained the word "Greek" in it. which indicates possible WP:NATIONALIST bias. The nickname should be restored asap.

Furthermore, I did notice that Retrofan781 also has tried to add dual nationality for Giannis into the article's Infobox, and particularly the "nationality" section, giving Giannis both a Greek and Nigerian nationality. For this reason, I did some research to find sources confirming Giannis' dual natioanlity/citizenship but I wouldn't find any. The provided sources are only confirming that Giannis is a owner of multiple passports, which is different from having multiple citizenship/nationality (please see Multiple citizenship for more info). He has got a Nigerian passport for travel purposes, but no sources were found confirming that he had got a Certificate of Citizenship of Nigeria to denote that this person is also a citizen/national of Nigeria. The only sources found so far are the ones confirming that Giannis was Naturalized and received his Certificate of Citizenship in Greece: [2] (title translation: The Antetokounmpo brothers, Greek citizens - quoted text: For his part, their agent, Giorgos Dimitropoulos stressed: "The process of naturalization of Thanasis and Yannis was completed and the children took Greek citizenship.) To obtain Greek citizenship, one person has to meet very specific requirements as explained in the Greek Ministry of Internal Affairs: [3] including being born or having lived in Greece for a long time. Which again, is not about Passports, but naturalization. Passports have different requirements.

Its important that we do not confuse passports with citizenship/nationality of people. Passports do not determine a person's nationality and may be issued separately; A person's nationality is determined by their naturalization and receiving a certificate of citizenship, which is a different document. A passport on the other hand, is a travel document usually given by or purchased from a government, primarily for the purpose of allowing its holder to travel internationally, usually for educational or career purposes, and a person may have multiple passports. The information I was able to verify so far, is in consistency with Giannis being able to get a Nigerian passport without being a citizen/national of Nigeria, and the one information does not contradict the other. However I have found no information about Giannis's naturalization in Nigeria at all. If Retrofan781 is able to provide us sources that Giannis has dual Greek and Nigerian nationality/citizenship, then they are welcome to restore the information to the Infobox's nationality section. Wikipedia is based on WP:VERIFIABILITY and sources are required to support this claim. Good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 07:44, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

• Comment - Regarding the nationality in the infobox, how is this different from Ben Simmons or Kyrie Irving, both of whom hold American and Australian passports? In this cases, they have exclusively played only for the national teams of Australia and the US respectively and the infobox only shows that FIBA nationality. Seems like Giannis, who has only played for Greece, should follow that precedent. Rikster2 (talk) 11:30, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. Thank you, Rikster2. I agree absolutely. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 12:08, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

 Comment: considering that several days have passed but the editor Retrofan781 has failed to address the issues raised here in the talk page and provide adequate answers regarding the problematic changes on the article, and considering that no stronger and more solid sources WP:VERIFYING these changes/claims were provided, considering that the changes aren't in line with the guidelines such as WP:ETHNICITY and are against the common rationale in Wikipedia, and considering that there is no whatsoever WP:CONSENSUS for these edits to stay, their changes have now been reverted: [4]. The editor is welcome to resume this talk page discussion in the future. However they ought to refrain from reinstating the same changes again without addressing the issues pointed here and achieving a minimal consensus first. Have a nice day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 11:49, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

After winning NBA championships in 2021. Giannis, during the press conference, said he represents Nigeria and Greece and he went on to say, "yes, it can be done". I don't see why we have to force him into "your" own box Amaekuma (talk) 11:21, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Above, it was stated if ...able to provide us sources that Giannis has dual Greek and Nigerian nationality/citizenship, then they are welcome to restore the information to the Infobox's nationality section. Seems like the prose already stated that he's got dual citizenship. I updated the infobox to reflect this as well.—Bagumba (talk) 11:55, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I added this thinking the lead prose had been stable, but it appears that was not necesssarily the case.—Bagumba (talk) 12:19, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Here is the link to the interview stated above. He said it on 2:30 Amaekuma (talk) 11:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

@Bagumba: A man has stated himself what he is, Here is another link, an article where he explicitly calls himself a "Nigerian-Greek". What do you mean provide you sources? Hearing it from the player's mouth himself isn't good enough? Amaekuma (talk) 12:30, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I was quoting someone else's earlier comment about sources. It seems like his dual citizenship is currently sourced. —Bagumba (talk) 15:02, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit request on introductory section

I propose to change "...helped lead the Bucks to their first NBA championship..." to "...led the Bucks to their first NBA championship...". In my mind "helped lead" alludes to two superstars being on a team and splitting leading man duties between them. The Bucks did not have 2 superstars last year and therefore "helped lead" doesn't make sense. Even Kendrick Perkins apologised to Giannis, so let's make it a little bit clearer in the article who was doing the leading. 160.40.51.190 (talk) 14:06, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2021

Add "* NBA 75th Anniversary All-Time Team (2021)" to career achievements below "* NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2014)" Mkankwe (talk) 04:33, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done—Bagumba (talk) 13:51, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2021 (2)

Addition: Giannis is widely considered one of the best two-way players to ever play the game. 185.134.147.139 (talk) 21:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:59, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2021

Giannis is considered to be one of the best players in basketball and one of the greatest European players to ever play the game. 185.134.147.139 (talk) 00:16, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:26, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Missing info

When you type in giannis and his Wikipedia pops up, it only lists one child- Liam, but not Maverick (he is mentioned though, in his personal like section). Just wanted to let Wikipedia know! Thanks 98.144.181.7 (talk) 20:49, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

...it only lists one child... Which "it" are you referring to? As you mentioned, both are found at Giannis Antetokounmpo#Personal life.—Bagumba (talk) 01:35, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I've removed the names of his girlfriend and children, as well as their dates of birth per WP:BLP. Such information of non-notable individuals adds no encyclopaedic value. – ².O.^Boxing 03:34, 18 April 2022 (UTC)