Talk:Luddite: Difference between revisions
m Reverted edits by Zeitgay-shoulddie (talk) to last version by Lowercase sigmabot III |
No edit summary |
||
(44 intermediate revisions by 24 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{talk header}} |
{{talk header}} |
||
{{British English}} |
|||
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1= |
|||
{{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|1= |
||
{{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Sociology|importance=Mid}} |
||
{{ |
{{WikiProject Textile Arts|importance=Mid}} |
||
{{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Philosophy|science=yes|importance=mid}} |
||
{{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=mid}} |
||
{{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject UK Politics|importance=mid}} |
||
{{WikiProject Technology}} |
|||
{{WikiProject History|importance=mid}} |
|||
{{WikiProject European history|importance=mid}} |
|||
{{WikiProject England|importance=mid}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Nottinghamshire|importance=mid}} |
|||
}} |
|||
{{refideas |state=collapsed |
|||
| {{cite book |last1=Merchant |first1=Brian |editor-last1=Szczerban |editor-first1=Michael |date=September 2023 |title=Blood in the Machine: The Origins of the Rebellion Against Big Tech |language=en |location=[[New York City]] |publisher=[[Little, Brown and Company]] |isbn=9780316487740}} |
|||
}} |
}} |
||
{{archive box|auto=yes}} |
|||
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
||
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}} |
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}} |
||
Line 19: | Line 26: | ||
}} |
}} |
||
==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment== |
|||
[[File:Sciences humaines.svg|40px]] This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2020-08-28">28 August 2020</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2020-12-17">17 December 2020</span>. Further details are available [[Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Rowan_College_at_Burlington_County/Society,_Ethics,_and_Technology-Fall_2020_(Fall_2020)|on the course page]]. Student editor(s): [[User:Gabriel Mont|Gabriel Mont]]. |
|||
{{small|Above undated message substituted from [[Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment]] by [[User:PrimeBOT|PrimeBOT]] ([[User talk:PrimeBOT|talk]]) 02:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}} |
|||
== Modern Perspective == |
== Modern Perspective == |
||
Line 27: | Line 38: | ||
--RichardSeabury |
--RichardSeabury |
||
== Rename to "Luddism (movement)"? == |
|||
== External links modified == |
|||
Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
|||
I have just modified {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Luddite]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=739107015 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
|||
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120326170835/https://www.marsdenhistory.co.uk:80/people/luddites.html to http://www.marsdenhistory.co.uk/people/luddites.html#link4 |
|||
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}). |
|||
{{sourcecheck|checked=false}} |
|||
The introductory sentence and the article focus on the movement and not on the individuals or the label, so maybe the article should be renamed accordingly. I could imagine reasons to keep the title as it is of course, for example "Luddite" is the most common word form in which we might see references to this movement. [[User:Adamw|Adamw]] ([[User talk:Adamw|talk]]) 11:14, 3 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 20:24, 12 September 2016 (UTC) |
|||
:I think for that reason it's best left as it is.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 04:10, 4 February 2024 (UTC) |
|||
== Requested move 12 August 2024 == |
|||
== Background section == |
|||
<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top --> |
|||
The first paragraph of the background section feels a bit out of place and reads almost as if it's responding to comments we haven't heard. The second paragraph is more clear and relevant. If the first paragraph's information needs to be in the article, it might be best to start with an explanation of what the context in that era *was* before addressing what it *wasn't* (the way the paragraph does now). |
|||
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' |
|||
The result of the move request was: '''not moved''' to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. [[User:Dekimasu|Dekimasu]]<small>[[User talk:Dekimasu|よ!]]</small> 13:57, 19 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
It also feels that the background section contains information that is less important and less relevant than subsequent sections; I wonder if it would be possible/wise to put the background section lower down, after some of the more relevant information. |
|||
---- |
|||
[[:Luddite]] → {{no redirect|Luddism}} – For consistency with other Wikipedia articles, naming the movement rather than a term for adherents. [[User:Jruderman|Jruderman]] ([[User talk:Jruderman|talk]]) 13:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
* '''Comment''' by nominator: "Luddite" can be used as an insult, which arguably makes the article title "[[Luddite]]" non-neutral ''for some readers''. [[User:Jruderman|Jruderman]] ([[User talk:Jruderman|talk]]) 13:53, 12 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
== What is the key point? == |
|||
* '''Opposed''': The current title is a much more frequently used term. See [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=luddite%2Cluddism&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=true Ngram]. — [[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 17:33, 12 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
*'''Opposed''': The current title is more frequently used. See above.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 01:28, 13 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
*'''Opposed''': Why mess with a good thing? The current title is what everyone knows and searches for. [[User:Iwaqarhashmi|'''<span style="background:#FF0000;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 lightgray">Waqar</span>''']][[User talk:Iwaqarhashmi|<span style="background:#0000FF;padding:2px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">💬</span>]] 09:13, 13 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
*'''Oppose''' Clear [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 13:18, 13 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
:'''Oppose''' per [[WP:COMMONNAME]], ngram view reference above <span style="color:#ef5224">[[User:BrigadierG|BrigadierG]]</span> ([[User talk:BrigadierG|talk]]) 23:55, 16 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
Article has become inconsistent and muddy. Either the Luddites destroyed machines in a vain attempt to halt their use or they merely used this as means of collective bargaining. Article tells us both is true at different points. If the former is true then they deserve the tag of anti-technology. But the article also tells us that this is unwarranted. Doesn't stand scrutiny. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:OddsBodkins|OddsBodkins]] ([[User talk:OddsBodkins#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OddsBodkins|contribs]]) 20:59, 8 December 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
*'''Oppose''': just adding to the clear COMMONNAME consensus. About 75000 results for [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22luddism%22&sca_esv=80a930aee8f476b4&sca_upv=1&ei=rDXBZoyRDP_fkPIPwc2NkQ0&ved=0ahUKEwiMl-upmv2HAxX_L0QIHcFmI9IQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=%22luddism%22&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiCSJsdWRkaXNtIjILEAAYgAQYkQIYigUyCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFMgsQABiABBiRAhiKBTIGEAAYBxgeMgYQABgHGB4yBhAAGAcYHjIGEAAYBxgeMgYQABgHGB4yBhAAGAcYHjIGEAAYBxgeSMYKUJIEWLsJcAJ4AZABAJgBaKABywSqAQM2LjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgagAuICwgIKEAAYsAMY1gQYR8ICDhAuGIAEGLEDGNEDGMcBwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAggQLhiABBixA8ICCBAuGAcYChgemAMAiAYBkAYIkgcDNS4xoAfbKw&sclient=gws-wiz-serp luddism] vs about 1.4 million results for [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22luddite%22&sca_esv=80a930aee8f476b4&sca_upv=1&ei=tDXBZrfAK_PUkPIP3qKOsQo&ved=0ahUKEwi36vKtmv2HAxVzKkQIHV6RI6YQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=%22luddite%22&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiCSJsdWRkaXRlIjILEAAYgAQYkQIYigUyDhAAGIAEGJECGLEDGIoFMgsQABiABBiRAhiKBTILEAAYgAQYkQIYigUyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIGEAAYBxgeMgYQABgHGB4yBRAAGIAEMgYQABgHGB5IigZQ-gFYuARwBXgAkAEAmAE1oAE1qgEBMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCBaACF8ICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAggQLhgHGAoYHpgDAIgGAZAGCJIHATWgB6UE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp luddite]. That's an 18x difference. [[User:Bait30|<span style='color: #ffffff;background-color: #bf5700;'><b> Bait30 </b></span>]] [[User Talk:Bait30|<sup><span style='color: #ffffff;background-color: #bf5700;'><b>''Talk 2 me pls''?</b></span></sup>]] 23:45, 17 August 2024 (UTC) |
|||
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] --> |
|||
</div><div style="clear:both;" class=></div> |
Latest revision as of 12:03, 19 September 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Luddite article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 2 months |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Reference ideas for Luddite The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
[edit]This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2020 and 17 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gabriel Mont.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Modern Perspective
[edit]To get one modern perspective, try to find a book called Sabotage in the American Workplace, I think from AK Press. It's just about a hundred stories summarized from interviews with real people about why they had (and in only one case, had not) done things at workk that they weren't "supposed" to do, everything from breaking equipment to get a break, to stealing supplies, to spitting in the soup. --JohnAbbe
Kirkpatrick Sales' 1996 book "Rebels Against the Future: The Luddites and their War on the Industrial Revolution" London: Quartet Books is worth a read. It concentrates on Luddites and touches on Neo-Luddites. For the insights of scientist looking at his work and the potential harm it may hold (esp. nanotechnology) take a look at: Joy, Bill (2001): "Why the Future Doesn’t Need Us" URL www.aaas.org/spp/rd/ch3.pdf (as printed in 'Wired' magazine). To examine other views on nanotechnology see ch4,5, and 6 within same site address. --RichardSeabury
Rename to "Luddism (movement)"?
[edit]The introductory sentence and the article focus on the movement and not on the individuals or the label, so maybe the article should be renamed accordingly. I could imagine reasons to keep the title as it is of course, for example "Luddite" is the most common word form in which we might see references to this movement. Adamw (talk) 11:14, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- I think for that reason it's best left as it is.--Jack Upland (talk) 04:10, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 12 August 2024
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 13:57, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
Luddite → Luddism – For consistency with other Wikipedia articles, naming the movement rather than a term for adherents. Jruderman (talk) 13:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment by nominator: "Luddite" can be used as an insult, which arguably makes the article title "Luddite" non-neutral for some readers. Jruderman (talk) 13:53, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Opposed: The current title is a much more frequently used term. See Ngram. — BarrelProof (talk) 17:33, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Opposed: The current title is more frequently used. See above.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:28, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Opposed: Why mess with a good thing? The current title is what everyone knows and searches for. Waqar💬 09:13, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Clear WP:COMMONNAME. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:18, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, ngram view reference above BrigadierG (talk) 23:55, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: just adding to the clear COMMONNAME consensus. About 75000 results for luddism vs about 1.4 million results for luddite. That's an 18x difference. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 23:45, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia articles that use British English
- C-Class sociology articles
- Mid-importance sociology articles
- C-Class Textile arts articles
- Mid-importance Textile arts articles
- WikiProject Textile arts articles
- C-Class Philosophy articles
- Mid-importance Philosophy articles
- C-Class philosophy of science articles
- Mid-importance philosophy of science articles
- Philosophy of science task force articles
- C-Class politics articles
- Mid-importance politics articles
- WikiProject Politics articles
- C-Class Politics of the United Kingdom articles
- Mid-importance Politics of the United Kingdom articles
- C-Class Technology articles
- WikiProject Technology articles
- C-Class history articles
- Mid-importance history articles
- WikiProject History articles
- C-Class European history articles
- Mid-importance European history articles
- All WikiProject European history pages
- C-Class England-related articles
- Mid-importance England-related articles
- WikiProject England pages
- C-Class Nottinghamshire articles
- Mid-importance Nottinghamshire articles
- WikiProject Nottinghamshire articles