Talk:Mesopotamia: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Latest revision as of 04:22, 1 November 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mesopotamia article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3: 300 days

This level-3 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Iraq Top‑importance

	Iraq portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iraq, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Iraq on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IraqWikipedia:WikiProject IraqTemplate:WikiProject IraqIraq articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Assyria Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Assyria, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Assyrian-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.AssyriaWikipedia:WikiProject AssyriaTemplate:WikiProject AssyriaAssyrian articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Kurdistan High‑importance

	Kurdistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Kurdistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Kurdistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.KurdistanWikipedia:WikiProject KurdistanTemplate:WikiProject KurdistanKurdistan articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Western Asia High‑importance

	Asia portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Western Asia, which collaborates on articles related to Western Asia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Western AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Western AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Western AsiaWestern Asia articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Syria High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Syria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Iran Mid‑importance

	Iran portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Turkey Mid‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

History High‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Ancient Near East Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient Near EastWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Near EastTemplate:WikiProject Ancient Near EastAncient Near East articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Geography High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Geography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of geography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GeographyWikipedia:WikiProject GeographyTemplate:WikiProject Geographygeography articles

High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Geography To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : See Requested articles/Social sciences/Geography, cities, regions and named places and Missing articles about Locations
Assess : Tag related article talk pages with {{WikiProject Geography}}. To help assess the quality and importance of geography articles, please see: Unassessed geography articles and Unknown-importance geography articles.
Cleanup : See Geography articles needing attention
Deletion sorting : Listed at Geographic related deletion discussions
Geographical coordinates : See Articles missing geocoordinate data by country
Infobox : See Geography articles needing infoboxes
Map : See Wikipedia requested maps
Notability : See Geography articles with topics of unclear notability
Photo : See Wikipedia requested photographs of places
Stubs : See Geography stubs

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Mesopotamian Government: Akkad fell to Gutians?

I could be wrong, but wasn't it the Gutians, not the Babylonians who conquered the Akkadian empire? There should be some mention of Lugal-zage-si too, as he was the one who fell to Sargon. To imply that Eannatum and his descendants were the last Sumerian rulers before the Akkadians is false. Lugal-zage-si was even from Umma, Lagash's main rival.

Sumer is the proper term for the region, not Sumeria, correct?

Factual error in section 9.1: Kings

The section states that "The Mesopotamians believed their kings and queens were descended from the City of Gods, but, unlike the ancient Egyptians, they never believed their kings were real gods."

This is a significant misquoting of the source, which actually says, "The Mesopotamian people believed that their kings and queens were descendants from the city gods [emphasis added], but the people never believed–as did the Egyptians–that their rulers were divine gods." The full text of the cited source can be found here.

There was no "City of Gods" in Mesopotamian mythology. Rather, the ancient Mesopotamians generally believed that a king was descended from his city's patron god. For example, a Babylonian king would have been regarded as a descendant of that city's patron god, Marduk, while the king of Ur would have been seen as Nanna's descendant, and so on.

I have no expertise with Wikipedia editing, so I hope that someone in a position to do so will correct this factual error. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:a601:a38f:3300:9d36:118c:30f7:6b99 (talk) 10:59, September 9, 2021 (UTC)

Sumerian King List has an RFC

Sumerian King List has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.

Which accent Mesopotamia civilization covered modern day Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq? Iraq.

mesopotamia 67.177.247.74 (talk) 23:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gyu 2604:3D08:607E:3800:1C86:F200:6D08:D203 (talk) 00:05, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Verbatim copy of text from source material

I was reading the source material from a reference and I discovered that the article text is a verbatim copy of the source material. The following text is at the end of the History section:

"Scientists analysed DNA from the 8,000-year-old remains of early farmers found at an ancient graveyard in Germany. They compared the genetic signatures to those of modern populations and found similarities with the DNA of people living in today's Turkey and Iraq." Source (2nd and 3rd paragraphs). -- Ubh [talk... contribs...] 12:27, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the Trade section, after the first sentence add " Cylinder seals found throughout ANE is evidence of trade between Mesopotamian cities"^[1] and in section under Medicine, add "Some treatments used were likely based off the known characteristics of the ingredients used. The others were based on the symbolic qualities"^[2] Sdotgoo (talk) 03:11, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 14:49, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Wayne, Alexander; William, Violet (February 2012). "Trade and Traders of Mesopotamian Ur" (PDF). Journal of Business and Behavior Sciences. 19 (2012): 2.
^ Teall, Emily (October 2014). "Medicine and Doctoring in Ancient Mesopotamia". Grand Valley Journal of History. 3 (1): 3.

[1] Wayne, Alexander; William, Violet (February 2012). "Trade and Traders of Mesopotamian Ur" (PDF). Journal of Business and Behavior Sciences. 19 (2012): 2.

[2] Teall, Emily (October 2014). "Medicine and Doctoring in Ancient Mesopotamia". Grand Valley Journal of History. 3 (1): 3.

[1]

[2]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{Talk page header|archive_age=300|archive_bot=lowercase sigmabot III}}
+{{Talk page header}}
-{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=C|1=
+{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=B|vital=yes|1=
+{{WikiProject Iraq |importance=top}}
-{{Vital article|class=C|level=3|topic=History|link=Wikipedia:Vital articles|anchor=Ancient history (18 articles)}}
-{{WikiProject Iraq |class=C |importance=top}}
+{{WikiProject Assyria |importance=top}}
-{{WikiProject Assyria |class=C |importance=top}}
+{{WikiProject Kurdistan |importance=high}}
-{{WikiProject Kurdistan |class=C |importance=high}}
+{{WikiProject Western Asia |importance=High}}
-{{WikiProject Western Asia |class=C |importance=High}}
+{{WikiProject Syria |importance=High}}
-{{WikiProject Syria |class=C |importance=High}}
+{{WikiProject Iran |importance=mid}}
-{{WikiProject Iran |class=C |importance=mid}}
+{{WikiProject Turkey |importance=mid}}
-{{WikiProject Turkey |class=C |importance=mid}}
+{{WikiProject History|importance=High}}
-{{WikiProject History|class=C|importance=High}}
+{{WikiProject Ancient Near East|importance=Top}}
-{{WikiProject Ancient Near East|class=C|importance=Top}}
+{{WikiProject Geography|importance=high}}
-{{WikiProject Geography|class=C|importance=high}}
 }}
 {{controversial}}
@@ Line 45: / Line 44: @@
 <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>'''[[:Sumerian King List]]''' has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the '''[[Talk:Sumerian King List#RfC on including/excluding the full list of kings|discussion page]]'''.<!-- Template:Rfc notice--> Thank you.
+== Which accent Mesopotamia civilization covered modern day Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq? Iraq.==
-== Semi-protected edit request on 26 January 2023 ==
+mesopotamia [[Special:Contributions/67.177.247.74|67.177.247.74]] ([[User talk:67.177.247.74|talk]]) 23:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
-{{edit semi-protected|Mesopotamia|answered=yes}}
-Change "The earliest form of logic was developed by the Babylonians, notably in the rigorous nonergodic nature of their social systems. Babylonian thought was axiomatic and is comparable to the "ordinary logic" described by John Maynard Keynes." to honestly I think just scrap the sentence entirely
+:Gyu [[Special:Contributions/2604:3D08:607E:3800:1C86:F200:6D08:D203|2604:3D08:607E:3800:1C86:F200:6D08:D203]] ([[User talk:2604:3D08:607E:3800:1C86:F200:6D08:D203|talk]]) 00:05, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
+== Verbatim copy of text from source material ==
-The third paragraph of the philosophy sub-header under the religion and philosophy section say "The earliest form of logic was developed by the Babylonians, notably in the rigorous nonergodic nature of their social systems. Babylonian thought was axiomatic and is comparable to the "ordinary logic" described by John Maynard Keynes."
+I was reading the source material from a reference and I discovered that the article text is a verbatim copy of the source material. The following text is at the end of the History section:
-citing  Dow, Sheila C. (April 2005). "Axioms and Babylonian thought: A reply". Journal of Post Keynesian Economics. 27 (3): 385–391. doi:10.1080/01603477.2005.11051453. S2CID 153637070. Archived from the original on 3 August 2020. Retrieved 7 December 2019.
+"Scientists analysed DNA from the 8,000-year-old remains of early farmers found at an ancient graveyard in Germany. They compared the genetic signatures to those of modern populations and found similarities with the DNA of people living in today's Turkey and Iraq." [https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-11729813 Source (2nd and 3rd paragraphs)]. -- <span style="text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em black">[[User:Ubh|Ubh]]</span> <small><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User talk:Ubh|talk...]] [[Special:Contributions/Ubh|contribs...]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 12:27, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
+== Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2024 ==
-That actual journal abstract has the sentence as "This note explains Babylonian thought, not as the dual of classical logic but as another form of logic that is rigorous in light of the nonergodic nature of social systems, and the uncertainty this entails."
+{{edit semi-protected|Mesopotamia|answered=yes}}
+In the Trade section, after the first sentence add " Cylinder seals found throughout ANE is evidence of trade between Mesopotamian cities"<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Wayne |first1=Alexander |last2=William |first2=Violet |title=Trade and Traders of Mesopotamian Ur |journal=Journal of Business and Behavior Sciences |date=February 2012 |volume=19 |issue=2012 |page=2 |url=http://asbbs.org/files/ASBBS2012V1/PDF/A/AlexanderW.pdf}}</ref> and in section under Medicine, add "Some treatments used were likely based off the known characteristics of the ingredients used. The others were based on the symbolic qualities"<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Teall |first1=Emily |title=Medicine and Doctoring in Ancient Mesopotamia |journal=Grand Valley Journal of History |date=October 2014 |volume=3 |issue=1 |page=3 |url=https://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1056&context=gvjh}}</ref> [[User:Sdotgoo|Sdotgoo]] ([[User talk:Sdotgoo|talk]]) 03:11, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
+:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:AlphaBetaGamma|ABG]] <small> ([[User talk:AlphaBetaGamma|Talk/Report any mistakes here]]) </small> 14:49, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
-Which changes the meaning significantly, from the sentence saying 'Babylonian social systems were nonergodic because they used logic', as in the wikipedia article, to 'Babylonian logic is rigorous because of the nonergodic nature of social systems', as in the cited article.
+{{reflist-talk}}
-Also of note is that the cited journal says "It is argued that Babylonian thought is one way of understanding Keynes's "ordinary logic," while Davidson's use of the term "axiomatic" appears problematic. But the ergodic axiom is so compatible with the open-systems ontology on which Babylonian thought is based that there is, in fact, scope for broad agreement."
-which presents Keynes's "ordinary logic" and Davidson's term "axiomatic" as conflicting ideas which can be married together on the basis that Babylonian thought is based on an open systems ontology which is very compatible with the ergodic axiom. This notably does not present Babylonian thought as axiomatic
-While the wikipedia article says "Babylonian thought was axiomatic and is comparable to the "ordinary logic" described by John Maynard Keynes."
-Which calls Babylonian thought axiomatic and directly compares that axiomatic thought to ordinary logic [[User:Oddnumberseven|Oddnumberseven]] ([[User talk:Oddnumberseven|talk]]) 23:21, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
-:{{fixed}} [[User:Zoeperkoe|Zoeperkoe]] ([[User talk:Zoeperkoe|talk]]) 10:08, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
-== "Majore" ==
-"They also played majore, a game similar to the sport rugby, but played with a ball made of wood."
-There doesn't appear to be a source for this anywhere. Linguistically the word does not resemble Mesopotamian languages of any kind.
-I believe this either needs a specific, preferably primary, citation, or should be removed. [[User:Palmerjwm|Palmerjwm]] ([[User talk:Palmerjwm|talk]]) 01:01, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
-:{{done}} Removed text. [[User:Zoeperkoe|Zoeperkoe]] ([[User talk:Zoeperkoe|talk]]) 09:16, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
-== Which accent Mesopotamia civilization covered modern day Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq? ==
-mesopotamia [[Special:Contributions/67.177.247.74|67.177.247.74]] ([[User talk:67.177.247.74|talk]]) 23:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)