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July 18

Cats

is it true that old cats will leave their home and go away somewhere to die —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RFslats (talk • contribs).

Well, it's true. Our 16 year old female cat never left our acreage property but was ill, probably in renal failure, stopped eating one day and then disappeared. Last Wednesday she could not be found and we searched high and low both outside and within the house. Today she was found (luckily) by a neighbour four acreages down the road, lying on the grass peacefully but was gone. This was a cat who never ventured past the letterbox and kept to a daily routine and generally would be termed "an inside cat". I do not know why she did it, but now I know for sure that it does happen and we were lucky she was found (name tag/phone number) so she could be buried at home. It occurred with another family cat about 20 years ago. 30 September 2007

I've never heard that one before, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that cats want privacy to die, seeing as how they're very private animals. --PolarWolf 02:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Animals don't know they're going to die and don't make plans for it. They do know when they feel sick or weak, and may change their habits then, going different places. In particular, the cat's instinct to seek a safe hiding place is likely to be stronger when it's sick. -Anon, July 18, 03:00 (UTC).

"I am just going outside and may be some time." said Snagglepuss one morning...203.41.139.85 04:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard this old wives' tale about cats going off to die before. It's been probably 20+ years since I first heard it. Dismas|^(talk) 12:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And what do you infer from the longevity of the story? —Tamfang 05:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've known a lot of sick cats and they tend to stay around their owner who can look after them before finally taking them to the vet once it's clear they've reached the end. I would guess that less well cared for cats might find somewhere they can be alone when they get sick, much as they do when they're about to have kittens.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well - that at least suggests one possible explanation why they run away - stay at home when you aren't feeling so good and it could be a quick trip to the vet followed by "Game Over". SteveBaker 02:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My cat last year hid under the riding mower and died before we could find him ( infection). He behaved listlessly and disinterested in human contact just before he hid. We thought he had gone back to wherever he had originally come from (yes he was a stray). I wish I had known he wouldn't come to me in his time of sickness. :( --TripleBatteryLife 19:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

motorcycle classes

how do i go about finding the motorcycle classes available and how do i get an id

                                            michelle frye
                                  <e-mail removed>

It would help if you told us where you lived. Also, please do not post e-mails on here. The convention is to reply to questions here, and e-mail addresses are just spam fodder. Splintercellguy 04:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you're in the US, you should check out the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, which offers many riding courses. Otherwise, I'd contact your local motorcycling organization (like those listed in Category:Motorcyclists organizations) and find out what courses they recommend. — Laura Scudder ☎ 04:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The people who license and register people and vehicles may have information. 68.39.174.238 15:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple hair out of one pore

What is the condition called when there is more than one hair that comes out of a single pore from your skin? Acceptable 03:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't assume you have cancer. Hair arises from hair follicles, usually singly. There are certain very rare disorders where multiple hairs may grow from a single follicle. These include Tufted Hair Folliculitis (a type of alopecia) [1] and trichofolliculoma (which is a type of follicular hamartoma.) [2] Multiple hair follicle nevi (an unusual type of mole) may also appear to have many hairs from a single pore. There are also, very likely, spontaneous examples of multi-hair follicles with no underlying condition. If you are concerned with a strange looking hair or follicle, please see a doctor. Rockpocket 05:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh no, it's nothing serious. But it occurs in some parts of my body and several of my friends have it too. I just thought it was something common. Acceptable 22:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There may indeed be some very rare disorders that cause multiple shafts to grow from a single follicle, but there is also at least one common one: Trichostasis spinulosa. AmigoNico (talk) 03:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nameless trailer help.

So, I was watching Transformers (mindless fun), and during the previews, there's a trailer, shot in digital film. It's a going-away party for someone named Rob in NYC, when the lights go out, and there's a shake. Everyone attending heads to the roof top, with people talking about "no creature can't make a noise like that". Swivel to Time Square(?), massive explosion. Focus on street, people start running. From direction of explosion, cars start flying, and the head of the Statue of Liberty flies onto the street. There's a date (forgot exactly).

It appears to be a disaster epic... I was thinking a re-make of Godzilla. Mr. Raptor 03:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See Cloverfield. Rockpocket 04:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for asking this! I saw Transformers as well as this trailer and I was wondering what the movie was as well. I wonder how well their "let's not include the name of the film in the trailer" advertising is going. Dismas|^(talk) 05:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty well, by the looks of it, [3] how many other films with no name have their own WP article and has the geekosphere abuzz with (at least) three viral websites? Rockpocket 06:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dreams and food

Is it true that some foods eaten before going to sleep can induce strange dreams? --124.181.193.77 05:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently people on an Atkins diet demonstrated a two-and-a-half fold increase in the number of dreams, most of which were described as "unpleasant". Whether the diet was simply stimulating memory or actually causing the dreams is unclear. [4]

Cheese is meant to give you nightmares. Aaadddaaammm 08:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. I think that is mustard: Scrooge to Marley: "A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are! A Christmas Carol. Rmhermen 17:42, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cheese is meant to give you nightmares; what cartoons did you watch? :) As you can see in the quote you give, many things are popularly believed to affect dreams negatively. Whether any of them actually do is the subject of the question. Ah, everything I need to know about popular culture I learnt in the Beano. Skittle 20:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding on foods and dreams is based on the proven fact that dreams occur in REM sleep. This is a very light sleep, where rapid eye movemements under the closed lids are common. Foods that are hard to digest, in general, or by certain individual, are likely to cause mild discomfort and disturb the deeper rhythms of sleep which results in a greater occurence of REM sleep and thus a greater propensity to dream. Has anyone ever had a dream that was not strange? user: Richard Avery

I have had some dreams so extremely commonplace that the next day I thought about them and was surprised to observe that the dream events were just that and ha not really happened. Edison 01:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What matters is not the number of times you dream - it's the number of dreams you actually remember. AFAICT you only remember a dream if you wake up before it's over. So I would imagine that the only possible mechanism for food to affect this would be if it makes you wake up prematurely. I strongly suspect this is an urban legend. SteveBaker 18:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that one of the mechanisms proposed for cheese inducing dreams was that the taste lingers in your mouth and gives you that little kick of reality that might wake you up. Capuchin 14:43, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously it is possible for food to affect dreams- ask someone who's spent some time in the Lucid Dreaming community- nicotine patches and B12 supplements can in fact increase the vividness of dreams (and for LDers, lucidity and control), which makes them easier to remember. Lately, I've been having a couple bottles of kool-aid before I go to bed, and waking up remembering a dream at least every other day. It wasn't until a couple days ago that I realized why, when I told someone about a very weird dream, and they told me to stop having so much sugar before I went to sleep. Whether they change the type of dream, who knows, but there definitely are chemicals out there that affect sleep and dreams. --L^augh! 18:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Antartica a penal colony

Iam surprised that Anartica has never been used as a penal colony I just read the article not even in the late 1700`s when i think the icy continent was discovered.Or settled in any real form.Before the treaty was signed.Do you have any reasons why it wasn`t used for these purposes.

It's very very very very cold and at a very remote location? The Arctic is similarly disused as a penal colony (well no large scale colony anyway) because it's too cold and require too much resource to set one up (you have to transport all the lumber and building material whereas you can just chop down tress in the other penal colony. If a location that's closer to the people is not used, why would they use a further away location with similar conditions? --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was too much like Rura Pentha?Atlant 11:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Penal transportation was never a great success. Even in a resource-rich country like Australia, the expense of supplying, organising, and maintaining penal colonies soon proved not to be worth the effort.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah it's well known penal colonies don't work. Hundred's of years later they turn round and beat you at cricket! Cyta 14:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One of the reasons for transportation is to annex the country as a colony. In the case of Australia, if the British hadn't colonised, the Dutch almost certainly would have. It was difficult to attract free settlers to such a remote destination, so unwilling colonists were an obvious alternative.--TrogWoolley 18:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wasnt North America also partly a penal colony at some time? 80.2.202.130 21:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, before those damn yanks went and declared independence, making Aussieland necessary. The American colonies are featured as a target for "transportation" in the Daniel Defoe book Moll Flanders, for example. StuRat 21:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The point of a penal colony isn't to execute people. Putting them in Antarctica without lots and lots of logistical support (clothing, food, housing, heating, etc) would be a certain death-sentence. If you want to kill people there are much cheaper ways than dragging them halfway around the planet and through ice floes just so they'll freeze to death 24 hours later. If you want to keep them alive but just put them somewhere where they won't bother you anymore - then picking somewhere as far away from home as possible (on the opposite side of the planet!) - but where they can fend for themselves without having to send them support ships - is the cheapest and safest option. Hence Australia. SteveBaker 18:07, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any other programs?

I searched for iMovie, and I tried to download the program, but it was a MAC program. Then I downloaded the tools for Windows to download MAC files, but the evaluation version of WinZip had run out, and then it became to download the thing became complicated. Is there any other download program that makes clips and montages out there? If not, that's okay because I can get my mom to buy WinZip to download iMovie. Again, is there any other download program that makes clips and montages out there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs)

You can't run mac applications unless you have a mac. For Windows you can try Windows Movie Maker or other software listed here. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And try WinRAR for zip files. It is more powerful than WinZIP, and it's free. 199.172.246.196 18:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

distance between cities in Brazil

220.224.227.19 07:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC)which is these three cities is the closest to Pecan, rio grande or fortaleza or salvador[reply]

Where is Pecan? --Anon, July 18, 07:52 (UTC).

Google Maps can't find Pecan, Brazil. (which doesn't mean much - the server could be going nuts). --Charlene 09:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we need to ask a Brazil nut to locate Pecan for us. Or maybe we should ask someone from academia (or is that macadamia ?). StuRat 21:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New Non Lethal weapon

Did you see this thing ? Website is www(dot)cobrastunlight(dot)com It is a LUXEON LED light, has a laser in it and can shoot pepper spray. 205.240.146.58 08:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can this be placed in appropriate articles ? 205.240.146.58 08:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like WP:SPAM to me; if others agree, perhaps one could delete this entire section?

Atlant 11:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the IP's other edits, I'd say this is not spam. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 12:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've delinked the URL, since this is probably a genuine question at least in my opinion. On the other hand having the URL here, it will eventually become cached by google no matter what the intentions of the questioner, so this seems like a reasonable compromise--VectorPotential^Talk 12:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's just a flashlight with a "psychologically deterring" LED "laser" and a built in pepper spray. The product is already described in our pepper-spray flashlight article, with a link to the website. Gandalf61 12:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What disease is about the gull bladder?

--QSYM 17:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean a Gallbladder, or a gull's bladder? --Dweller 17:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And can you get Foley catheters to fit gulls? —Tamfang 17:08, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

human --QSYM 17:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are a number of diseases pertaining to the gallbladder. See gallbladder. MrRedact 17:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What are these?

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/b/1/4/im/b14962.jpg http://images.aproximation.org/Unidentified.jpg

what is 1 and 2 1 i think is a unknown town and 2 is like a fossil? how about you?

--QSYM 17:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Two is clearly a painting and 1 is out of a badly digitized film or something. 68.39.174.238 19:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The first one is a "street in an unidentified city, showing Hansom Cab", from around 1910, according to its description page. --TotoBaggins 19:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why is liquer spelled like this or is the otherway around?

--Frolence 17:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean liquor or liqueur? --Richardrj ^talk ^email 17:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the latter, it's because it's French. 68.39.174.238 01:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Us Brits also spell liqueur "liqueur" (and we pronounce it li-cure). I *think* that our definition is less broad than the American "liquor", e.g. Jack Daniels is regarded as a liquor, but is definitely not a liqueur. However, I stand by with asbestos underwear, in case I'm wrong. --Dweller 07:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, that's the same in the States, except "a liquor" falls oddly on my ear -- to me "liquor" is a mass noun for the most part. Saying that JD's is a "spirit" sounds more grammatical (but might get you beat up in the sort of bar where people drink a lot of it). --Trovatore 07:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, OK, so the only difference then is that we don't use the term "liquor" and are comfortable to define whiskeys (and, more commonly, whiskys) as spirits. --Dweller 07:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here in the erstwhile colonies, liqueur usually means something sweet, like amaretto or creme de menthe. Oh, look, we have an article and a list. --LarryMac | Talk 13:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah - in the USA, liquor means any kind of alcohol stronger than wine or beer. In the UK, liqueur means one of those super-sweet highly alcoholic drinks with fruit or chocolate or something in it that you'd drink after dessert in a formal meal. The approximate translation is that 'liquor' in the USA means 'spirits' or 'shorts' in the UK. SteveBaker 18:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cost-of-living comparisons

When applying for jobs, sometimes a potential employer asks for salary requirements. If the job is in a different city, it would probably be wise to adjust what I would ask for here to compensate for a different cost-of-living (especially if it is higher in the new city). Is there any simple way to translate what salaries would be equivalent in different cities? Or is there a specific piece of data that is best used as a multiplier to determine this? (Specifically referring to U.S. cities.) — Michael J 18:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Salary.com has a "salary wizard" that is zip-code sensitive. While salaries tend to be higher in cities with higher costs of living, you may find that it is not always proportional to the change in the cost of living. For example, while houses in California cost three to four times as much as comparable houses in Texas, you will probably not be able to double your salary in California. You will get a larger salary, but a smaller house. Marco polo 20:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally - when you get this question on a job application form - the standard advice is to either leave the space blank or write "OPEN". Don't put an actual number there unless they absolutely demand that you do so. If you pick a number that's too small - they are unlikely to pay you more - and if you pick a number that's too big, you may not even get as far as an interview (at which they might be so impressed that they'd actually offer you that amount!). Save it for the end of the interview. When they know whether you are any good and you have a feel for whether you like the place - and they ask the "So, do you have any questions for us?" thing - THEN is your cue that it's time to talk about salary. But by all means check out salary.com (and houses in parts of CA where you'd actually find a well paid job are 5x Texas prices...at least!) SteveBaker 17:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One approach is to ask "what is the salary range for this position?". That edges them closer to saying a number, and gives you something to go on. If you feel you are, say, at the top of your range in your current location, then ask for the top of the range in the new location, and explain that you're using that rationale. --TotoBaggins 17:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the information. Usually I do leave it blank, but sometimes in online applications the "Salary" box has a red * next to it, meaning required field. (And my entire search is being concentrated in the Northeast U.S. — no intention of going to CA or TX!) Thanks again. — Michael J 19:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Several wiki-questions

I just finished scanning in an ancient book (IE. Out-of-copyright) that's almost totally pictures and no text (It's an old National Geographic thing) as a bunch of TIFFs.

Now, I want to give this to WMF somehow, but don't know where it should go. WS is the place for books, but do they want a book that's a bunch of images? It's not anything for WP... does WS even take TIFFs? 68.39.174.238 19:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Put the pictures up at Wikimedia Commons. See, for example, the way De Humanis Corporis Fabrica (a book known for its pictures) is done. But convert it from TIFF to another format first, preferably PNG, I'd suppose. --24.147.86.187 21:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to consider sending a copy to Project Gutenberg too. SteveBaker 17:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can convert it to PNG, but I need to find someone to upload it... 68.39.174.238 14:31, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Blood Brain Barrier

If drugs such as heroine and nicotine can get through the blood brain barrier then what is the deal with genetic engineering and other drug treatment limits in treating things such as alzheimers not being able to get through the blood brain barrier, or am I mistaken?

Heroin and nicotine are very small molecules, with structures that make it easy to cross the barrier. Most drugs are based around proteins or other large molecules, which are too large to easily cross the barrier. Current genetic engineering techniques use viruses, which are even larger than proteins, and are exactly the sort of thing the blood-brain barrier is designed to stop. --Carnildo 20:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, heroin's not that small, and morphine, which is smaller, has difficulty crossing the barrier. Heroin is morphine with two acetyl groups; acetyl groups somehow make it easier to cross the barrier. However peptides can of course be very much larger molecules, and whether there's any possibility of acetylating them to make them cross the barrier, I wouldn't know -- intuitively it seems sort of unlikely, as the acetyl groups might get in the way of the protein folding and completely change the substance's effect. But maybe it would work on some antibiotics, in cases of brain infection? (This is outside my competence; I'm really just speculating here.) --Trovatore 22:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I read of a group of scientists attempting to coat the designer drugs or genetic engineering or proteins I can't exactly remember now, anyways they coated the cells in a fatty substance to by pass the blood brain barrier, it supposedly has had success, what does anyone else think of this. is that possible in order to treat patients with alzheimers and tumors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.126.241.147 (talk • contribs)

Kinda peripheral, but I'm sure someone once told me that meningitis IS treatable with antibiotics because the infection compromises the blood-brain barrier, so the drugs can get in when they can't in a healthy person. Aaadddaaammm 03:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also worried about this "genetic engineering" which is being spoken about like a drug. Viral alteration of adult human genes is science fiction. Sure, it's getting there, but it isn't there yet.

Not necessarily, see Human papillomavirus. --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

July 19

What does this flag mean?

I am trying to figure out what a particular flag represents. It has three large horizontal stripes. The top and bottom stripes are solid blue. The center stripe is solid black. I've seen it on everything from a minivan bumper to a motorcycle gas tank, but I can find nothing about it online. Any ideas anyone?

Thanks,

[...] Stafford VA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.106.22 (talk • contribs) 01:12, 19 July 2007

I'm going to take a wild guess that if you're in Virginia, you're not going to see many flags of Botswana. On a more serious note, are all three stripes the same size? How dark is the blue? (Pastel, baby, sky, royal, sapphire, navy)? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 01:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You may want to check FotW as they have information on just about every flag. 68.39.174.238 01:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Thin Blue Line (emblem) should be the other way around, but EPoliceSupply.com offers "Law Enforcement Mourning" stickers looking like what you described. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's black/blue/black - not blue/black/blue. The Botswana flag has thin white stripes between the blue and black. SteveBaker 17:11, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the official Thin Blue Line emblem is (black/blue/black). Yet, the commercial site I linked to offers the "Thin Black Line" variety (blue/black/blue) as well. The article I linked to states:

"It is alleged that relatives of officers display the emblem not to show solidarity, but to get immunity from tickets. Because of these allegations the use of bootlegged Thin Blue Line emblems has been a problem. Additionally, real emblems have been bought and used by people only peripherally connected to a Law Enforcement Officer (nephews, cousins) causing some sellers to restrict sales to people giving their department phone number and badge number."

Perhaps the inverted stickers being incontestable, they are safer to sell and own; the original poster has observed this variety, so I guess they are sold and owned. ---Sluzzelin talk 21:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SAT II Math 1 vs Math 2

Do colleges prefer the Math 2 over the Math 1? Thanks! Delta 02:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you're going to study something which involves math (so pretty much everything which isn't literature, philosophy or history), then Math 2 shows that you have been taking classes which lead towards college-level mathematics. If you're not, it shows that you don't shy away from difficult subjects. Math 1 tests you in the basic math that demonstrates that you have the basic skills to graduate high school. Donald Hosek 18:31, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Car Scratches

Hi, recently some intertubes with wet sand on the bottoms were placed on the hood and trunk of my car, causing a bunch of scratches to the paint. Are there any cheap, non-professional methods of repairing this? Also, does anyone have even a ballpark estimate for what it might cost to have this professionally fixed? Thanks in advance for any help. 38.112.225.84 05:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Simple video (good tip about how to find paint color) and Text (slightly more detailed process with pictures). 152.16.59.190 05:40, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the scratches didn't remove the paint, but only damaged the finish, you can just rewax the car to cover them up. If the paint is scraped off, then you need a colored wax of approximately the same hue to fill in the scratches. Nail polish can sometimes be used, as well, with wax on top. Those are the quick and dirty fixes, of course, and won't look quite as good as a professional job. To make it look perfect, you would likely need to repaint the entire car (to avoid a visible seam between the old paint and the new paint), at something like $500. I'd go with the cheap way, myself. StuRat 21:07, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Browsing History

A friend of mine told me that even though I always delete internet browsing history, someone can still identify them because computers stores the history in a secret file. Is it true? if yes where does the computer stores them and how can I delete them.

Dercnat

The browser's history is AFAIK stored only in one place, and so once deleted, it's gone. However in addition [cookies]] placed on your machine may, if not deleted, provide an indication of the places you have been. More tenuously, if your internet connection uses a proxy server (e.g. corporate network and, in fact, most ISPs) then there's the possibility of a record being made at the proxy server. You have no access to this. In short, I think you;re being misinformed by your friend. -Tagishsimon (talk)

No - even that's not true. Whilst I doubt there is a "secret file" where this data is kept even after being deleted, there are lots of other possible places where the data could be. When data on a computer disk is "erased", all that typically happens is that the part of the disk drive where that information is stored is marked as "available for re-use" - nothing is actually erased. If someone really wanted to figure out what you'd been up to, they could almost certainly do so by using a program that looks through the "unused" parts of the disk drive looking for that information. There are software packages out there that will do a "true" erase of your drive by writing zeroes all over the unused bits. However, a determined forensics expert could still have a good chance of getting the "erased" data because each time your disk drive platter passes under the disk head, the head is in a very slightly different place from the previous time. So when you erase by overwriting with zeroes, it tends to be the case that a teeny-tiny sliver of the magnetic surface is not written to - and there are machines out there that can read that sliver and extract useful data from it. Moreover, when your system uses a 'disk cache' to keep copies of programs that are running but temporarily idle (better explanation needed!) whatever was in the RAM of your machine at the time ends up being written to the disk cache. This data could include whatever any program happens to be doing or working on at the time - and that data is also likely to sit around where it could potentially be found. So anything short of a degausser or a sledge hammer is not 100% certain to wipe the information. HOWEVER, it takes a very determined search and all sorts of highly specialised software and hardware to find these kinds of obscure thing - so unless you are trying to protect yourself against a major government shakedown - you're perfectly safe in deleting your browsing history + cookies + browser cache and then emptying the 'recycle bin'. SteveBaker 16:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think if you use Windows and Internet Explorer, the computer stores typed URLs in a file called index.dat. I dont know if any other sort of information is stored (except that mentioned above). We have an article index.dat which may help you. Best regards TreeKittens 21:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I use a program called Evidence Eliminator, and before seeing this program in action I had no idea how many places Windows and IE store temporary information. If you're using a work computer, don't do anything on the computer that you wouldn't be comfortable for your boss to see while watching over your shoulder. 152.16.59.190 04:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

crack

am looking for a crack/licence key for a program.its tunebite platinum 2004 version4.1.0.22. my pal told me that u can get the licence key free from the net.am still finding trouble getting them from the net.can anyone get it for me or give me a link

No. We're not into theft. Please go and buy the product. --Tagishsimon (talk)

is it ilklegal?under what law?how come there sites still handing them out?

Gosh yes, it is illegal, at least under US and UK law, and probably the legal systems of most countries. In practise it is more likely that such matters would be dealt with as a civil case than a criminal case, but make no mistake: in general terms, if you take for-sale software and crack it, you are committing a crime. As to why cracks and keygens still exist ... it's an interesting question. One element of the answer may well be that it is not illegal (or, in some jurisdictions, it is only in recent times that it has become illegal) to supply information which enables licence conditions to be circumvented. A more likely element is that there are always those who are content to break laws. Our article Copyright infringement of software provides more info and pointers to some of the laws you might be breaking. --Tagishsimon (talk)

It's certainly illegal in pretty much any juristiction - however, if a site is set up someplace where laws like this are not strongly enforced, it can be very tough indeed for the company that owns the software to get the offending web site taken down. The fact that you can find the key or the crack online most certainly doesn't make it legal!! Anyway - Wikipedia isn't allowed to hand out legal advice - so we can't tell you what to do. However we're also not allowed to break the law in our juristiction - so we can't give you the answer you're looking for on this question. SteveBaker 16:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As Tagih mentions, when it comes to providing, making or keeping cracks and keygens, in many other countries the legal status (in the US, definitely) and for that matter whether the copyright owners is even likely to win in a civil case is uncertain. Using said crack or keygen to enable you to use software you're not entitled to use may or may not be illegal (when it comes to someone using software for their private use, it's often not particularly clear cut) but it would usually be a violation of the copyright owner's rights so they would win in a civil suit. If on the other hand, you're simply using a crack so you don't need to keep the optical media in your drive all the time in many countries this won't be illegal nor will the the owner win a civil case. Nil Einne 14:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They're also handing out crack at sites downtown, but that doesn't mean it's legal. --TotoBaggins 17:17, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Needles for injecting crack/heroin were handed out for free in Canada. I think they stopped the program now. Acceptable 03:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Needle-exchange programmes are actually not that uncommon. Somewhat OT but I know of someone who needed needles for a medical condition but felt awkward asking for them because when she did, she always go the feeling from the looks she received that the people there presumed she was a junkie Nil Einne 14:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just because it is possible to find something (or even if its easy to find something) that does not mean its legal. — Shinhan < talk > 17:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

alternator project

can someone explain to me where to search for the abstract and implementation of any electrical project? i need to do an electrical project for my final year in college and i have already searched countless webpages in vain. i did not find a suitable project. can someone say where to search for a good electrical project (projects as advanced as the projects one can find in IEEE magazines).

Umm, IEEE magazines? Do you mean "where on the web"? Are there not textbooks which might give you an idea? --Tagishsimon (talk)

I have been involved in many electrical projects, and they were done by companies with the goal of making money. The project documents may have been filed with a utility commission if for a public utility, but the majority of projects are something like "Develop an ipod" and all project documents are proprietary. Look in the IEEE magazine, or one of the many specialized IEEE magazines for popular accounts of electrical projects. An electrical project could be a new computer processor, a high voltage electric transmission line, a radio, a cel phone, an integrated circuit, a capacitor, an efficient electric light, a meter, or a thousand other types of things which are published in very different places. Figure out if you are interested in high voltage/high current (power engineering), in high frequency (radio engineering), in digital circuits (computer engineering) or in consumer products such as plasma displays. For some ideas you might look at "Nuts and Volts" [5]or "Make" magazine [6]. A project for school should show a sound grasp of engineering principles and not just be the construction of something from plans or a kit someone provided. One neat trick is that if you need a chip or a transducer, you can often get it free by writing to the company and explaining that you are a college junior or senior doing a design project. You can also look at manufacturers' product literature and books, which often have application notes, then build a working model of something that a new chip or component makes possible, which is not on the market yet at all, or which is better than what is on the market. You can also look at defunct electronics magazines such as "Popular Electronics" or "Electronics Illustrated" and build an updated version of something there, which is better because it uses the latest integrated circuits instead of discrete transistors. You could start a project with a build-it yourself device like a Sumo-bot [7], which has a breadboard for customization, which has a Stamp computer you can program, and you can add sensory features or a manipulator. It has cool capabilities when assembled, and you can learn a lot about motor control and robotics. But just building a kit would deserve a failing grade. You need to add some interesting capability or interface. Edison 15:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citation needed

Could someone be so kind as to give me the citation to a concept having to do with “the one who opposed the most” as being guilty . . . Some said it has to do with a writing by Shakespeare. Chailai 16:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is the passage 'the lady doth protest too much' which is often used to mean that your protesting shows that you are actually 'guilty' of doing whatever it is you protest about (often used in comedies when a man or women protest too strongly that they don't like another man/woman). It comes from Hamlet I think. ny156uk 16:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't it Iago in Othello saying it about Desdemona? A vital point is, of course, that Iago was a Bad Guy trying to sow suspicion about an innocent woman; often overlooked when people use the phrase :) Skittle 18:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC) Nope, you're right! Silly me... Skittle 19:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In modern language, of course, it becomes "You're in denial." —Tamfang 17:02, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Or the more casual "Duh nile ain't just a river in Egypt!" --L^augh! 17:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response. Reading Hamlet is very difficult for me, but at least I get this much. Thanks again. Chailai 20:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As kids, we used to use "the one who denied it supplied it". This was the correct response to "the one who smelled it dealt it". Which was, in turn, the correct response to... um, I forget. --Dweller 20:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The complete quotation is: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." The citation is from Shakespeare's Hamlet (III, ii, 239). Queen Gertrude speaks these famous words to her son, Prince Hamlet, while watching a play at court. Gertrude does not realize that Hamlet has staged this play to trap her and her new husband, King Claudius, whom Hamlet suspects of having murdered his father. She also does not realize that the lady who "doth protest too much" is actually herself, as the Player King and Queen represent King Hamlet and Queen Gertrude. The former will be poisoned (in this play within the play) by the king's brother, as in reality (Hamlet suspects) Claudius killed King Hamlet. Gertrude's statement is in response to the play-Queen's repetitive statements of loyalty to and love of her first husband. See [[8]]. (JosephASpadaro 20:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Copyright Protection - Policies

was reading a wikipedia article about misinformation/propaganda and a technique these use to uncover people who are 'leaking' information. I.e. they send out the 'same' letter to each person but every copy has minor alterations that help to identify the source of any leaks. I wondered whether there are any policies for Film-distribution firms to do this: A large portion of the 'dodgy' dvds my friends have show the classic "this is for promotional purposes" (or whatever) logo every 10/15 minutes. I wondered whether they might try to embed slightly different wordings for each association they send it out to. ALternatively they could alter the end-credit ordering/something like that. This could help them identify where the leaks are coming from. Does anybody know if such tactics are used by distribution firms to try combat piracy? ny156uk 17:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a reference, but I remember an Academy Award judge getting in trouble for redistribution, where they had used just such a watermarking scheme. You might also be interested in cap codes, those dots that appear on bright parts of the screen in movies, which are used for similar purposes. --TotoBaggins 17:13, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See Coded Anti-Piracy. dr.ef.tymac 17:15, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright Protection - Piracy countermeasures

I have a similar question. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Encyclopedia Britannica used a technique for "watermarking" it's article text by randomly inserting statistically-infrequent letter sequences into its articles; sequences that either represented English mistakes, or represented correct English, but otherwise were sufficiently improbable as to suggest that any repetition of these sequences (in other sources or periodicals) represented an obvious case of plagiarism. Anyone have a reference for that? dr.ef.tymac 17:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've not heard of that, unless you mean fictitious entry.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Traitor tracing + fictitious entry? 68.39.174.238 14:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalized roadside attraction

I remember reading about a roadside attraction that featured blocky, folksy sculptures of famous figures in history. It is now thoroughly vandalized. Does anybody know the name?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.118.7.22 (talk • contribs)

Any idea which country, for starters? There was a statue a little like that in Chamberlain Square, Birmingham UK, until four years ago when it was shown to be flammable. It was called "Forward".--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, it is in the USA.

Gene Therpay VS. Genetic Engineering

What is the difference between gene therapy and genetic engineering?

Gene Therapy would be a medical process (Please don't beat me this isn't medical advice!) used to treat a disease. For instance you could implant a diabetic pancreas with the proper gene to produce insulin. Genetic engineering is related, but would be used to create new genetic stock. For instance if you engineered an egg to produce a purple eyed person, they could potentially pass that trait along to their children. - --Czmtzc 20:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vegetarian cats and dogs

Can you keep cats or dogs on a vegetarian diet? 83.182.152.239 22:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dogs yes, with care. Cats no. Skittle 22:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia does not give veterinary advice - consult a professional. The cat article has a section on feeding here Cat#Feeding DuncanHill 22:15, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There was some discussion of the veterinary advice question earlier. --TotoBaggins 22:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Veterinary advice - the How to use the desk section at the top of this page explicitly says that Wikipedia does not give veterinary advice, and to consult a professional. DuncanHill 22:51, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It does now. It's not a long-established policy; see the archived discussion. It is good advice, though. --Anonymous, July 21, 02:56 (UTC).

Cats yes, with *extreme* care by absurdly dedicated owners. This FAQ gives a good treatment. --TotoBaggins 22:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is that place for real? It looks suspiciously like a troll/parody site to me. For one thing, they don't seem to actually have anything for sale... --Kurt Shaped Box 22:38, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IT IS A TROLL SITE. Its one of those "Animal Rights Nuts" website. IF "you" hunt, own animals, these nuts consider "you" a ass, worse. Troll myself ? Hell no. Had some experiences with nuts like these. 205.240.146.58 22:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BOTH Cats AND dogs are CARNIVORES, NOT HERBIVORES. 205.240.146.58 22:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Those are not the only options. If you look at our article on dog, you will see that they are carnivora, but that this does not necessarily mean they are carnivores in terms of diet. There is some discussion as to their most appropriate classification, with people leaning towards omnivore, like humans. Cats, however, are obligate carnivores. That means they need to eat meat, as there are some nutrients they cannot get elsewhere. It is possible that you could feed them synthetic versions of these nutrients, but it would be tricky and risky. Skittle 22:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm well aware that there are people like that around. I remember some rabid vegan wingnut on a birdkeeping forum I was a member of a few years ago who was trying to force a vegan diet upon his owls, which were (obviously) getting sick as a result. Yes, he would actually see his birds be malnourished and possibly die in order to make a political point. --Kurt Shaped Box 23:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to be a philosophically perplexing position to take. I would have thought if you believed in animal rights (as one presumes those who would feed carnivores a vegetarian diet does), then it would follow that one would give one's companion animal the right to choose which food it would rather eat (and anyone that has had a dog or a cat can tell your they prefer meat) rather than forcing an unnatural diet on them. Rockpocket 00:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you follow the principle of minimizing suffering, you could, conceivably, weight the total suffering felt by all the individual animals of prey (mice, pigs, or whatever has to be killed to feed the carnivore) as higher than the total suffering experienced by the one carnivore forced into a vegetarian diet. (Even if the diet weakens or kills the carnivore, you could reach that conclusion.) This isn't my statement on the issue, just one way of applying utilitarian ethics to the dilemma. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The solution to that is obvious: don't keep a frikkin' pet! Then neither it, nor its prey need suffer. Rockpocket 00:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Or choose your pets carefully. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your answers especially skittle's. 83.182.152.239 01:48, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The only way you can keep it and its prey from suffering is to kill one painlessly. If you let someone else keep the pet, they will either feed it meat, or not feed it meat. — Daniel 02:37, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is the poorest set of answers I have seen so far to a Reference Desk question: Unsourced answers and value judgments about what animals deserve to live. Pretty sad. Snakes should starve so mice can live. Edison 05:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain what makes that a troll site. They do, indeed, offer products for sale. I may disagree with their approach, but I don't see them as a troll or parody site. Corvus cornix 21:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When I looked at the site yesterday, there wasn't anything listed for sale at all. Now there is. :) --Kurt Shaped Box 03:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And your value judgment raises the bar considerably. Well done. Rockpocket 05:13, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And mongooses should starve so snakes can live? --58.170.212.62 07:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(In response to Edison's comment) Ok, it was a reference to Peter Singer , which Rockpocket, no doubt, recognized. Sorry about the negligence of wikilinkage. ---Sluzzelin talk 07:16, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Canines and felines have canines and carnassials for ripping meat. They have these as meat is an integral part of their diet. If they were herbivores they would not have evolved with a set of teeth for a carniverous diet. Or if you wanted to look at it from the other side of the coin, why would a god have created them with mouths, teeth and digestive systems opposite to that which they required? Lanfear's Bane

Well, cats have a short digestive tract, as part of the carnivore adaptation; it makes them lighter and more efficient hunters, but on the other hand it's less efficient at digestion and requires a high protein diet. There are other adaptations, such as required amino acids, as well. You can put together an adequate synthetic diet, but as the guy said, it's absurdly hard and expensive; and quite likely a lot of the components will turn out to be animal-sourced.

Dogs, not so much; their digestive system is like ours, their protein requirements aren't greater than ours; a large part of the wild dogs' diet consists of intestinal contents of their prey. Like a human on a vegetarian diet, you do have to make sure it's complete. There are arguments over whether it's optimal or not, and whether vegetable proteins even if "complete" are as well tolerated as animal sources, and in special cases like running the Iditarod, a high protein intake has been shown to be better, but in general a dog can do pretty well on a quality vegetarian diet.

The flip side is that cats and dogs are not as prone to the cardiovascular problems people develop as a result of our relatively recently adopted carnivorous diets; they can eat cheeseburgers all day and put on weight but they won't have a heart attack and need a bypass. Gzuckier 15:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that's necessarily an adaptation. Very few humans who ate meat 100% of the time and slept 20 hours a day would die of a heart condition before the age of ~15 when most dogs are reaching the ends of their natural lives. Dogs and cats simply don't live long enough to die of most of the things we die of...and certainly not in their natural state when they evolved their meat-mostly diets. SteveBaker 00:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dogs and cats do not commonly develop atherosclerosis, but they do live long enough to die from the things we die of, such as cancer, kidney failure, debilitating neurological diseases, and congestive heart failure. Dogs even get a form of senility known as cognitive dysfunction syndrome [9]. However, eating cheeseburgers all day is certainly going to lead to obesity, which in dogs will lead to worsened orthopedic diseases and in cats can lead to diabetes. --Joelmills 04:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There was an episode of Animal Cops (on Animal Planet) where a vegetarian had been keeping her cats on a vegetarian diet, and they were all undernourished and blind. Corvus cornix 21:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

July 20

Article with the longest name

When I came across The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences I started wondering what the article with the longest name was. I found Acetylseryltyrosylserylisoleucylthreonylserylprolylserylglutaminyl and Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu, but neither is quite as long. — Daniel 02:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is asked periodically, and I believe the answer is Dante And Randal And Jay And Silent Bob And A Bunch Of New Characters And Lando, Take Part In A Whole Bunch Of Movie Parodies Including But Not Exclusive To, The Bad News Bears, The Last Starfighter, IN Jones And The Temple Of Doom, Plus A High Scho which (as you can tell if you clicked on it) redirects to Clerks: The Animated Series episode five. Carom 02:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about one that doesn't redirect? — Daniel 16:16, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last time, the two longest ones found were "United States Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on International Development and Foreign Assistance, Economic Affairs, and International Environmental Protection" (165) and "How Hedley Hopkins Did a Dare, robbed a grave, made a new friend who might not have really been there at all, and while he was at it committed a terrible sin which everyone was doing even though he didn't know it" (212). Of course, if we were allowed arbitrarily long titles, the record would probably go to either "When the Pawn...", "Wolfe+585, Senior" or "Titin". Laïka 17:58, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Or 0.999... ? :) Capuchin 13:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has a software limit of 256 characters per title - and a bug that actually limits you to (depending on whom you talk to) either 254 or 255 in practice. SteveBaker 00:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Huh! I didn't know that. (But it's clearly 255.)

Based on the database dump from April 2 (the most recent one I've downloaded), the ten longest titles are:

But it appears that none of these is a plain, no-redirected article. —Steve Summit (talk) 04:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dog defense

What should one do to defend oneself against an attacking dog (german shephard or doberman). Assume one is alone with the dog and has no weapons. I also heard that dogs can smell fear; is this true? Acceptable 03:37, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A utility company, whose employees had to enter private property to read meters. had a training video with helpful sugestions like "Always leave the gate open for easy exiting." "Always have the owner lock up the dog, even if 'he never bites.'" "Always carry something like a bagor briefcase that you can place between you and the dog's jaws." "If confronted by an aggressive dog, try saying "Who's a good dog? Where's your ball? Wanna go for a ride?" I imagine a mean dog rolling his eyes at the absurdity of any of these before tearing out a piece of your flesh. Still, it might work with some. Per TV documentaries about police dogs, yes, when you are frightened your body sprays out hormones which tell a dog, even German shepherds with their limited scent capabilities, that you are the "bad guy." Police dog handlers can say "Find the bad guy" and their dogs track down the frightened person who is hiding in the bushes. Edison 05:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TV documentaries about police dogs are not the most scientifically rigorous of sources. "Smelling fear" is a term often used, but there is limited experimental proof of it. If fear hormones were being "sprayed", it would be an example of a kairomone, which have yet to be definitively determined in mammals. Nevertheless, considering that dogs have a sense of smell much more sophisticated than us humans, it is not unreasonable to imagine that they could differentiate between the small of stress-perspiration from heat-perspiration (they are chemically different), and associate the former with "fear". Rockpocket 05:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This has been discussed at some length before. See Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/2006 September 2, under "vicious dogs".--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:33, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I had read somewhere that it's possible to kill a dog quickly by taking its two forelegs and pulling them apart with some force. I have no idea if it's really true - and luckily have not been faced with the situation. I do know, however, that if a dog has you in its jaws (an arm perhaps) then you need to insert a finger into the dog's mouth. At the back of their jaw, there's a space with no teeth. Get a finger in there and keep pushing deeper and the dog will open its mouth. (Well, it works when my dog won't release the ball its just fetched!). Also - and this is another apparently - if you block a dog's nostrils with your fingers - ie one in each hole - the dog will have to release whatever is in its mouth so it can breathe. 83.104.131.135 08:38, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

With a small dog this may be difficult as they can still breath a little through the small slits to either side of the nostrils when the nostrils are too small to stick your fingers up and therefore harder to cover effeciently. With some dogs it may be as simple as reaching over them and grabbing them by the tail or hind quarters and / or lifting them by the tail. They will often respond to the 'attack' from a different direction by releasing you, giving you time to escape / restrain the dog. Breathing may also be resticted by inserting your hand or a number of fingers under the dogs collar, tightening it. Lanfear's Bane

It's different whether the dog is truly attacking, for instance if it has plans to eat you, or if the dog is merely defending/being territorial. or even just "mock attack"ing. In the latter cases, it's not too hard to get the dog into a standoff, where you're both agreed to to just stare at each other and growl and not attack first. But if a large dog is really intent on killing you, it's pretty much like a strong human of similar size, armed with a big knife; you can inflict quite a few blows, even serious ones, without changing his/her mind, since the pain doesn't really set in until after the adrenaline goes down. So mostly, you're on the defensive; concentrate first on keeping the sharp parts away from vulnerable areas, secondly on getting him/her entangled or off balance or something so that you can get away, and only thirdly on trying to "win". Going after the vision works with either species; you don't have to actually poke the eyes out, but if you can get a copiously bleeding cut above the eyes, that makes it harder to see. If you're lucky, you can get your hand clamped around his/her muzzle; it's easier to keep it from opening then keeping it from shutting on you. PS if you expect to get bitten/cut in a non-life-threatening place, then if/when you do, you are less likely to panic and completely lose the ability for further rational defensive action.Gzuckier 14:48, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have broken up many dog fights over the years, and found the most effective non-damaging method is to pull the tail, as someone else suggested. I've always thought that this vulnerability is why guard dogs often have their tails docked, but that article doesn't mention it. --TotoBaggins 17:21, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reminds me: pepper spray, which I presume is what mailmen carry for dog defense, doesn't work. You can ask my substitute mailman, me, or my (late) dog. This was the typical territorial thing, so didn't go any further, but if a faceful of pepper spray wouldn't discourage a dog who's being defensive, it sure isn't going to discourage a determined dog. On the other hand, as my regular mailman, or me, or my (late) dog can tell you, handing him a milkbone will do wonders to change a territorial dog's opinion of you, although he will still glare suspiciously and woof from time to time to let you know you haven't got a free pass. I doubt it would do anything to distract the determined attack, though. In addition, serious guard/attack dogs are trained to refuse any food offered them by anyone other than their handler, or found anywhere. For obvious reasons. Gzuckier 17:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dogs can tell if a human is frightened, happy, scared, etc. because of the scent that we give off under those circumstances. --PolarWolf 19:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source for that? --TotoBaggins 19:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would be interested in a source for that too. Though dogs can tell if a human is suffering from bladder cancer from the smell of our urine. [10]

It might not necessarily be the smell. My dog can regularly tell when I am upset about something, and I'm willing to bet it's my body language and not a smell that's giving it away. — Laura Scudder ☎ 20:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Per Olfaction "Bloodhounds, who have the keenest sense of smell of any dogs, have noses ten to a hundred million times more sensitive than a human's." A dog's sense of smell is orders of magnitude more acute than a humans, and there are differences between species of dogs, such that scenthounds have a better sense of smell than say German shepherds. Dogs can accurately detect the chemical given off by humans with lung cancer. It sems very plausible they would be able to distinguish stress related hormones in the sweat or the breath of a frightened person. Edison 04:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are forgetting, though that stress-hormones are non-volatile and therefore unable to be detected by smelling through the main olfactory epithelium of a dog. They may be able to be detected by their vomeronasal organ, though that is purely speculative, since there is no known examples of cross-species VNO activation in mammals. Rockpocket 06:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dogs are really good at interpreting body language too. Between and ungodly sense of smell and picking up body posture variations we aren't even aware we're making, it's like they are telepathic! There was an experiment that was widely publicised [11] where they tried to have humans track by scent alone and they were surprised to find that we could actually do it - very slowly and not easily - but we can do it. So it must be just ridiculously easy for a dog. The other thing that the study discovered was that having two nostrils gives you the ability to smell "in stereo". With the dog's amazing sensitivity, picking up directional smells must also be incredibly easy for them. SteveBaker 05:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, humans and canines are both social hunters which hunt in packs, and therefore need to communicate very well. We have language, dogs don't, but they still have to be able to communicate efficiently enough to bring down big prey that could kill them individually, but by nonverbal means. To us it looks like magic. Gzuckier 17:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Two comments:

1) Perhaps we should say dogs can "detect" fear, as opposed to smelling it, since other senses may be involved. This hardly seems psychic to me, though, as humans can tell if another human is scared, too.

2) People are rarely without any weapons, if you consider impromptu weapons like car keys used to gouge at eyes and shoes used to kick the dog where it will do the most damage. StuRat 17:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe try saying "Cookiee?" in a very cute and excited voice. Another one I heard of and have actually tried was using something to block the dog's sightlines. Like putting a binder in front of its face. Best just to avoid the mad dogs. 142.33.70.60 20:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I saw something like this happen one time, with a large dog (I think mastiff-related) and a small man. Pulling on the dog's legs did not kill him, but it broke the dog's front legs -- apparently they are vulnerable to being twisted outward, away from the dog's chest. There was still plenty of fight in the dog, and the guy did get bitten, but he managed to get away, and with the broken front legs, the dog could not chase him.Deltopia 21:45, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Internet problems

I would have gone to something else like Yahoo Answers, but your quicker. My internets screwed up, it lets me onto everything, Youtube, your guys, Runescape, anything I want, but just a while ago, I was on Bebo, and I click on Profile, then guess wat happens, "The page cannot be displayed". Anything involved with Bebo can't be displayd according to the internet, I can enter anything else, but Bebo. I know it's not construction on the site, the site would have told us, and it would be said in the 'Cannot find server' page. any ideas about whats happening, and how to stop it so I can get back in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.170.7 (talk • contribs)

How long ago did this happen? Have you tried again? All websites occasionally have this sort of problem, especially Wikipedia. Just wait a few hours and it will probably come back.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clear your internet history, cache, cookies etc. It could be something to do with that. Also as noted sites do ocassionally drop (though most are kind enough to have a 'oops' style page. ny156uk 16:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks §→70.130.170.7 18:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have had this problem with the Linksys unit. Googled "Linksys", got commentary such as "Linksys is shit", "Linksys is crap", worse. Are you on a Linksys unit ? Bebo may be just as shitty. Troll ? Hell no. Just had some bad experiences with a Internet ISP. 205.240.146.58 03:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yea, you get what you paid for. Linksys is a budget brand of routers. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 20:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Professional movie effect

How do professional Hollywood film-studios give their movies that "movie-effect"? For example, it's very easy to distinguish a home video from a feature film, so what done to the feature film to look professional? Another example, if you were to watch the "Behind the scenes" material on a DVD movie, you can tell the "atmosphere" of the clip is different from that of the movie. The movie seems darker, and more movie-ish. So what effect is given to the movies to look like they do? Acceptable 05:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know exactly what you mean. The basic difference is that the feature film is filmed on film itself (i.e. celluloid), whereas the home video and the behind-the-scenes clips are shot on video (usually digital these days). Video tends to look brighter and sharper, and as you say, celluloid looks darker and more atmospheric. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 06:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also I have noticed TV shows tend to look different from films, soap operas from America look different to those from the UK or from Australia. There's lots of different film you can use and filters and things I guess although I'd be interested to know more myself? Has anyone from the UK noticed Casualty/Holby City (I don't know which) has started using different style film, it looks more fuzzy somehow? Cyta 08:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes a show/movie has segments filmed on tape and on film both, and when they switch from one to the other it really jumps out at you. Gzuckier 14:50, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of it has to do with professional lighting. That was one of the things that distinguished the look of the amateur-produced Star Trek episode on the web a few years back from the original series. It certainly wasn't the acting or special effects. 76.80.21.81 14:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quality of film used, lighting, processing (they will put more work into cleaning up/perfecting the film than the extra features). Also home-movies are often filmed with worse camera-technique so they'll feel jerky instead of smooth, wobble instead of stable and focussing may be softer instead of sharp. Lighting will be the biggest difference though. Much like in photography good lighting makes a good shot great. ny156uk 16:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Richardj, do they still use celluloid for Hollywood movies? and what is "video"? Thanks. Acceptable 17:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine a lot of it is also post-production work and/or processing. Ergo the "deleted-scenes" bits that look nothing like the original. But actually, I got to watch a movie getting filmed once, and it was amazing how different "real life" looked compared to the monitor right next to it, which looked like a "movie". Things really looked differently on camera than they did in person, without any post-processing, due to the filters on the lens, the settings, etc. (In this case they were shooting digital video for possible feature release. It was a small production.) --24.147.86.187 21:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The celluloid makes a lot of difference - the colour range of film is quite different from TV and also the frame rate is much lower on movie film than on TV. This produces a subliminal difference that's quite noticable, although it's often hard to say why. This is going to change though - more and more movies are shot on digital movie cameras because it's easier to do the special effects - and it's cheaper, faster (you don't have to develop it) and safer (you're less likely to accidentally expose a day of work!) - and of course movies are making less and less at the box office and more and more on TV and DVD - and digital movie theatres are popping up all over the place. Celluloid film is going the way of 35mm still photography. SteveBaker 00:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, they don't still use celluloid film, or more precisely cellulose nitrate. The stuff was a major fire hazard. According to film base and film stock, cellulose acetate stock replaced it in the 1950s, and since the 1990s tougher polyester stock has been used for release prints. --Anonymous, July 21, 2007, 03:05 (UTC).

I've always been amazed at how cheesy it looks when a news camera crew videos the filming of a scene from an action movie. Fight scenes on stage usually look fake and crappy, and so do action scenes in movies when filmed by a professional film crew not part of the movie shoot, like a documentary crew or a TV news crew. It usually looks like a second rate student film effort, even if it it "Lord of the Rings." I suppose part of it is the framing: the news camera is not at the same place as the movie camera, so the action is framed differently, and the movie background is replaced by stage hands and film crew standing around. A second difference is (Foley) sound effects. In a fight, sword sounds, thuds and cracks of hitting, etc. are added post production, along with music. A third difference is editing: a quality movie will have numerous quick cuts of closeup, reaction shot, long shot, two shot, etc. to enhance the drama, done smoothly enough we are unaware of them. Edison 04:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent observations, Edison, (hope you don't mind I added a few links to your post ... readers may also wish to consult Category:Film_techniques). One side-issue that you reminded me of: film crews that deliberately use seemingly "low-budget" filming techniques to increase the appearance of "spontaneity" or "authenticity" in the recorded material. There's some compelling cultural criticism lurking around in there somewhere. dr.ef.tymac 15:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is an excellent question, and one I've wondered about. I don't know the answer(s), either, but one thing I'm pretty sure of is: if it were easy to describe the "professional" techniques and easy to do them, there wouldn't be such a huge difference between the look of amateur versus professional films. But of course there is.

If you've ever been near the set of a "real" movie, you know that they can spend a whole day, with lots of well-paid people standing around doing mostly nothing, and end up as their day's work with just a minute or two of usable film, or less. It takes that much time and effort, in part, because they're fussing around getting everything "just right".

(I'm sure that a certain amount of the fussing is unnecessary, but is being done "because that's the way we do it" or because of union make-work requirements. But most of the rest of it surely matters.) —Steve Summit (talk) 16:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This reminds me of an anecdote. A writer was visiting Michael Caine on a movie set and, as is the way of these things, although Caine was required to be available (so they could start shooting the moment everything was ready), for hours there was nothing for him to do. The writer expressed surprised at how calmly the star took this situation. And Caine replied, "That's what they pay me for. I'd act for nothing." --Anonymous, July 22, 03:31 (UTC).

Inserted in the archived copy: I've found a copy of the posting where I originally heard this. It wasn't "a writer" he was talking to; it was another member of the cast, Valerie Perrine. If the story is true, then the movie must have been either the 1985 comedy Water or the 1999 comedy Curtain Call. --Anon, 22:03 UTC, December 9, 2007.

My understanding is the difference in the look of TV and movies originally derived from the difference between using film stock and airing something live or off videotape. I talked to a guy in the industry not too long ago, and he said that with digital cameras, they can make it look either like film or like TV, depending on what the producer wants. Even though there's no physical film involved, producers of certain types of programs will demand a film look to the work. For instance, the use of film rather than videotape has long been something that's distinguished NFL Films highlights from those you see on SportsCenter or local news. The videotape image may be sharper than the film broadcast (on a TV screen), but using film makes it look cinematic. So NFL Films producers may edit digitally captured footage to look like film. -- Mwalcoff 02:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably changed in these days of digital everything, but it used to be quite common for TV shows to be shot on film, just like movies. However, the lighting techniques were different because they were intended to be seen on a CRT screen in a lit room at home, rather than projected from film in a darkened cinema. --Anon, July 22, 03:31 (UTC).

Runescape

What is Runescape?Is it a game or a software application that tests our patience?

It's a game. You could play it to learn more Here or read more about it Here. Runescape is one of the biggest MMORPG's in the world, patience is important when playing it, but it's not a test of your patience. If you want to know how to sign up, just ask at my page. §→Nikro 07:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Campfire game

The article on games with unspecified rules reminded me of one that I could never figure out. It may have just been an elaborate ruse, but it seems to have some method to it. It might have been called magic stick, but it's not the same as the one in this article.

Basically someone took the stick and tapped complex rhythms while uttering cryptic phrases. Then people would try to guess which movie (etc.) was being referred to. Does this sound familiar to anyone? iames 14:47, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. But of course, your question could be some sort of double bluff elaborate ruse. I'm sure it's not, though. --Tagishsimon (talk)

A double bluff elaborate ruse! My head is spinning at the thought. I may never know if it was a code of misdirection (as Daniel's comment below) or something more like a no soap radio prank. iames 16:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They do something like taking the first letter of every word and making it spell out the movie. You could also take the last letter, a certain letter in the most stressed syllable of every word ect. — Daniel 16:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Board Elections

What exactly is "The Board" that these people get elected onto? What do they do? Leave answers on my talk page please - Wardhog 16:22, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All is revealed here Rockpocket 16:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mood Ring Color Chart

To; All Wikipedians-

Someone seriously tampered with the Mood Ring Color Chart again, so I did make some corrections this time with a few minor edits. I believe that the color "Brown" on the Mood Chart would more appropriately be placed in between Grey & Amber, but decided to leave the order of the Colors in the Color Chart as is to avoid anymore confusion. I am going to think about it for now, but may consider transposing those 2 Colors- where Grey would follow right after Black, and then Brown right after Grey.

Hope this helps as I did my best to edit correctly.Dawnofrabbits 17:50, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which article is this? --JDitto 03:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mood ring is the article OP has been editing. Seems to be a list rather than a chart though. By the way, serious tampering is encouraged. Suggest you discuss this on the article's talk page.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Huge MSN font

In Microsoft Windows Live Messenger, I remember there was a letter you could put into a convo (alt+####) and it would make whatever you typed really BIG. It made the font huge. Does anyone know what the alt+#### is? It looked kind of like an apostrophe. Acceptable 19:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Difference between a scone and an english muffin

I'm based in the US; I showed a picture of jelly on an english muffin to a friend in the UK and she said "oh, Jam on a scone-like thing". Wikipedia is helping me translate various foods so she can understand me and vice versa (this all started because she said she was going to "eat a jelly", and I thought of the jam condiment where she thought of the gelatin dessert); however, I've had scones before and I've had english muffins and they seemed rather different to me; then again, my scones were baked by my stepmother in the US, and I've never been to the UK. Anyway, the foods apparently strike her as similar and me as very different; are they, in fact, similar? Kuronue 19:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Most English "scones" would be called "biscuits" in the States. An English muffin is closest to what the English call a "crumpet". That's my understanding, anyway -- there could certainly be variations or nuances that I'm missing. --Trovatore 21:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

English muffins are in fact seldom eaten in the UK, although I think I did see some for sale once. There are lots of confusing differences like biscuit, cracker, chips, crisps, and so on. 80.2.202.130 21:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a little table:

UK	US
Crumpet	English muffin
Scone	Biscuit
Biscuit	Cookie
? Unknown ?	Scone
Jam	Jelly or jam (jam contains pulp; jelly doesn't)
Jelly	Jell-O (or "gelatine dessert" to be generic)

--Trovatore 21:31, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A crumpet in Britain is a disk-shaped piece of bread-like thing that on the top surface has a large number of very large open pores, so it's honeycombed and is nearly as much air as 'bread'. It is designed to be put in a toaster and the pores soak up the melted butter. Its not designed to be eaten cold, but if you do it is of a rather rubbery consistency. 80.2.222.188 22:16, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An English muffin in the States is also designed to be put in a toaster, and has pores to soak up the melted butter. It's true that it's usually breadier and less rubbery than a crumpet. But I still think UK "crumpet" is the best translation of US "English muffin", mainly because of the holes. --Trovatore 22:19, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We have 2 kinds of muffin in Britain, a cake-like thing (often involving blueberries) which is a comparitively recent import from the USA, and a bread-like thing, which is split in two, toasted, and spread with butter, jam, etc. we also have crumpets, which are porous in texture, also toasted and served with butter, jam, honey etc. A scone is something else, somewhere between a cake and shortbread in texture. It is baked, and split in two and served with buttr, jam, cream etc. Without actually baking some for you, it is amazingly hard to describe the differences! DuncanHill 21:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"and a bread-like thing, which is split in two, toasted, and spread with butter, jam, etc." I would call that a bap that someone decided to toast. I'm unfamiliar with either "muffins" or "english muffins". In the 60s to 90s in the south-east UK my elderly mother would often prepare a tea for me, and we never ever mentioned the word "muffin". I expect there is a different dialectical use in other parts of Britain. 80.2.222.188 21:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The following articles help Scone (bread) for scones, Crumpet for crumpets, English muffin for muffins, and muffin for American muffins DuncanHill 21:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like 'scone' as a UK English translation for 'biscuit'. They aren't even close to being the same thing. Biscuits (here in Texas at least) look just like scones - but that's where the similarity ends. They aren't anywhere near as sweet as scones and scones are generally much harder in consistancy. US-style biscuits are served with savory food - and here in Texas, often with "Gravy" which is a peppery white sauce - and frequently for breakfast. Scones are eaten with either butter or clotted cream and would most likely be eaten with tea at teatime.

I'm also not entirely happy with the translation of the UK word "Biscuit" to the US word "Cookie" - whilst there are things (like Oreo's for example) that an American would call a 'cookie' and a brit would call a 'biscuit', if you think of something like those huge chocolate chip cookies that are baked deliberately soft - you wouldn't call that a biscuit in the UK. We don't really have those and if we did, we'd recognise them as an American import and call it a 'cookie' because we're generally pretty well informed about US English. Similarly, we Brits have an alarmingly large and diverse repertoir of 'biscuits' that no US store can come within 1% of. No Jaffa Cakes (which are biscuits, not cakes), no digestive biscuits (chocolate or otherwise), no HobNobs for chrissakes! Not even the boring plain ones! I mean - FIVE YEARS without a HobNob...oh the humanity! You think it's bad not having sausages (and no - I'm not talking about those small burger-like things) - and having to eat bacon with no discernable meat content - or baked beans that don't taste right and are mysteriously labelled "Pork and Beans" even though the pork content is ALWAYS one 1/4" x 1/4" cube of gross undercooked fat, and having to call chips 'fries' and crisps 'chips' and no Marmite, no Bovril, no Daddies sauce, no HP sauce - and you have to check 12 supermarkets just to find one jar of Branston pickle and it costs like $5 and is the smallest jar of the stuff I've ever seen!...Look I just need one, lousey stinking HobNob - is that too much to ask of a nation of 300 million chronic over-eaters? Can someone PLEASE send me a care package?! I promise I'll spell 'colour' and 'tyre' properly and use the word 'rubber' only in the context of things you do with a pencil.

(For some reason, food and cars collect more linguistic differences between UK and US english than any other subject!) SteveBaker 00:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arrghh its obvious to us Brits: A scone has fruit in it , a muffin has none!

Fruit scones have fruit in, plain scones don't..... DuncanHill 00:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If it aint got fruit, it ain't a scone. I would take it back to the counter if it didn't have some raisins in it--SpectrumAnalyser 00:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think we need something like a definative picture-dictionary of photos of various bread items photographed in the UK and labelled as to what they are called here (with any regional variations), similarly for the US. This is complicated by the recent trend for American products, for example "blueberry muffins", being sold under American names in the UK rather than their normal british names. I've also noticed that in Asda supermarket in the UK, which was recently taken over by Walmart, that they are now selling things called "scones" which correspond to the description of American scones, and are not the british scones as photographed for example in the cream tea article. And "English muffins" seem to me to be rather like a teacake without the sultanas. As you can see in the teacake article, and the comments above and on the discussion pages on various bread items, there is a lot of regional variation even just in England as to what these various things are called. Presumebly because they are often made by small local bakers rather than being a uniform national product. 80.0.133.53 09:42, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tsk, Tsk. Nobody mentioned an English Pikelet which used to be delivered to the door by a man on a bike with a big basket in front. And what of the Scottish Tattie Scone which is served with breakfast fry-ups, or the sweetie shop version which looks like a real tattie scone but is in fact a confectionery product. And what of Clootie Dumpling which looks like rich dark fruit cake and is fried as a component of a Scottish Fried Breakfast. Mmmmm.

And crumpet doesn't always just refer to the things you eat ;) Lemon martini 14:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to our own articles, there are 2 types of muffins- american and UK- which correspond Duncanhill's reply earlier: the second kind of muffin, the kind that isn't fluffy and filled with blueberries or what have ye, but is meant to be split in half and toasted with butter and jam, is apparently an "english muffin" here, because it's what the english call muffin. I'm still confused as to what a Scone is. Perhaps there should be pictures in the artcile about differences between US and UK english? Kuronue 23:31, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The top two pics (one with honey, one with jam and cream) in the article Scone (bread) look like what I would call scones, further down the article is a picture of a variety of scones, including the tattie scone referred to above. Would it be helpful to anyone if a receipt or two were included here? DuncanHill 23:40, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What are scones sweetened with? A full recipe isn't needed, I can guess flour, milk/buttermilk, eggs, what have ye, but how sweet are we talking? Cookie-sweet (cream the butter with white sugar)? Sweetened with honey for a more biscuity-sweet flavor?The pictures seem like biscuits like I'd get at KFC (quite exactly) but the text indicates sweet rather than savory. Kuronue 03:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've had both English muffins and crumpets. A crumpet is kind of like an inside-out English muffin, with the nooks and crannies visible on the outside. I'm kind of surprised they don't have soft chocolate-chip cookies in the UK. By the way, Steve may be interested in knowing they have HP sauce and digestive cookies and even Marmite in Canada, so a trip across the border might be worthwhile for you. It's just as tough being an American in Europe -- no root beer, no unsweetened Cheerios, no selection of 10 salad dressings at restaurants... -- Mwalcoff 02:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are soft US-style cookies in the UK, but they tend to be the sort of thing you have to buy specially from the instore bakery, rather than getting in a mass-produced pack, and are about the size of saucers, and you can get the smaller (but much crunchier) Maryland Cookies in pretty much any supermarket or grocery store. Scones are usually sweetened by adding fruit to them; a plain scone is incredibly buttery, but not very sweet. Laïka 19:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Scones can be sweetened by adding sugar to the dough mix, this has the added benefit of making the top crisp up better source: Marguerite Patten - Perfect Cooking, London, 1972. DuncanHill 19:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So it looks like our table is now:

UK	US
Crumpet	???
Muffin	English Muffin
American Muffin	Muffin
Scone	???
Biscuit	Cookie
???	Scone
???	Biscuit
Jam	Jelly or jam (jam contains pulp; jelly doesn't)
Jelly	Gelatine dessert

Also, my friend mentioned my image of jello cubes looked like "a jelly before it's melted". Do you... drink Jello in the UK? Kuronue 03:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they might very well "have jelly for tea". StuRat 16:31, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, but you melt the cubes before mixing with water to make the jelly (as I imagine you do in America as well), and that would be what they were refering to. Skittle 17:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We don't in America. Jello comes in either cups of pre-made jello for easy addition to lunches, or powder that is mixed with first hot, then cold water (hot to dissolve the powder better, cold to cool it back down) and refrigerated, after which it is often cut into cubes for serving. In addition, you can add juice instead of the cold water, makes it more fruity. The end product is firm, though it tends to jiggle when poked and tear easily, as well as melt. Kuronue 21:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You don't have jelly cubes? You can get powder over here, but it tends to only be sugar-free jelly. Usually I'd buy jelly cubes, seperate them, then melt them. The way you used to have to do it was by adding enough boiling water to melt/dissolve them, then topping up with cold water (or fruit juice, or whatever), but it's quicker and easier to melt them in a tiny amount of water in the microwave, then add the cold water. Jelly cubes can also be eaten 'raw', which parents usually don't allow! Skittle 13:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jelly cubes are also a convenient and tasty snack for hikers (we used to eat a lot of them when I was a Scout hiking on Dartmoor). DuncanHill 13:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC) There is a picture of a packet of jelly at Gelatin dessert DuncanHill 13:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree with the muffin-English muffin line. It appears that an English "muffin" does not have the little bubbles that, when you cut them in half, make craters to hold the melted butter. That's almost the defining feature of an American "English muffin". That's why I translated "English muffin" to "crumpet". --Trovatore 03:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've had English Muffins in America, and they were pretty much like muffins in Oxfordshire. A crumpet is really quite different to a muffin, but eaten in the same setting. A muffin has a soft, bready centre and a slightly crust-like outer covered in flour, which becomes crustier on toasting. Muffins can be toasted before or after splitting, meaning people give slightly different reports on how they 'behave' with butter, etc. A crumpet is less bready than a muffin, because it's made from something closer to a batter than a dough. It has a more rubbery texture, and is not split. It is riddled with round holes, because bubbles form as it cooks. Maybe you've been served a regional variation? Skittle 17:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"An English muffin (UK: muffin) is a round, yeast-leavened form of bread." from english muffin. Versus, from Crumpet, "They differ from the English Muffin, which is cooked on both sides, in that the dough is usually more moist to start with, so that a muffin ring may be required to hold the batter's shape." Kuronue 17:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"More moist"? What's wrong with "moister"? Corvus cornix 20:48, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of those charts include Preserves or Fruit Spread. :^) Corvus cornix 20:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...or marmalade. StuRat 16:31, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone want to go through the trouble of adding pictures to List of words having different meanings in British and American English? - Banyan Tree 09:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dolphins

Why is (or was) there concern about dolphins being killed during tuna fishing? Do dolphins do something crucial for the ecosystem?

No but they are cute and intelligent, so people feel guilty about eating them. Adam Bishop 21:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As Adam said it's as much about people's perception of the animal as anything else. Of course ideally we don't want to harm other animals whilst gathering our own food so dolphin-friendly netting is better if we can still catch our tuna and not harm the dolphins. ny156uk 21:30, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why do they need to be useful before humans would want to stop killing them indiscriminately? Corvus cornix 21:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some references for you. The depletion of any member of an ecosystem has a habit of messing up the rest of the habitat. A cynical way of putting this is that it might mess up the fishing industry if we killed all the other predators in the sea.

--S.dedalus 22:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Two sentences from our Dolphin article help explain why people want to protect dolphins: "Dolphins are considered to be amongst the most intelligent of animals and their often friendly appearance and seemingly playful attitude have made them popular in human culture." and "Dolphins have also been known to protect swimmers from sharks by swimming circles around them." In other words, they are cute, friendly, playful and protective of humans. They are among the most intelligent of creatures and willingly accept and protect humans as our pets would, but without us domesticating them first. Knowing that has a powerful affect on the human psyche. Many people naturally feel protective of them in return. 152.16.188.107 09:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if the thing about dolphins being the only other animal who has sex for fun have anything to do with it at all. Yes, I know they're no longer known as the only other animals who do, but back when I learned it, the fact books said they're the only other animals. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article on charismatic megafauna may shed some light on this. - Banyan Tree 09:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A similar issue resulted from a question on how to save a moth's life. I would think most people would agree that a dolphin is worth saving but a moth is not, for many of the reasons listed above. Of course, your perception of the value of each may depend on if you've seen the The Mothman Prophecies or the Simpsons' episode where evil dolphins conquer the world. StuRat 16:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question answered>

Boredom in travel, for example, often lends itself to a portable game or a repetitive song such as 99 Bottles of Beer. It is not clear why repetitive singing would be a response to tedium, but it may be a form of mockery. Similarly a number of repetitive gestures or games may be considered imitations of the tediousness of waiting, or of the moving hands of a clock.

Driving superfluously, especially very fast, is

The question was why the repetitious act. The answer is that we chant when we can't. Also a reference to music or muse sick. It is very clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.96.67.183 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 20 July 2007

Huh? There is some information at 99 Bottles of Beer. Per "The crystal ball: 99 bottles of beer on the wall--and other countdowns" by "Anonymous" in Telecommuting Review. Monmouth Junction: Jan 1999. Vol.16, Iss. 1; pg. 1, 10 pgs, the song may date back to college drinking songs, where the goal was to keep up with the tally by drinking. We at Wikipedia do not encourage irresponsible drinking games. You might also consult "Circular Jingles" by Roger Abrahams, Western Folklore, Vol. 21, No. 3 (Jul., 1962), pp. 192-195, which discusses this and other songs such as "My name is Yon Yonson" and "John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt" which were noted back in the 1940's. There are also the classic timekillers of counting telephone poles, spotting license plates from as many states as possible, asking every 5 minutes "Are we there yet? How much further is it?" and fighting with your sibling in the back seat until Dad threatens to "Turn this car around and go back home."Edison 22:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chants and songs for physically demanding or extremely repetitive work may have evolved to get the participants into a beta trance which would allow the work to progress without much active thought or resisitance. If I am focussed on a piece of writing or a painting, I will often hum the same phrase or chorus mindlessly, over and over and over again, driving everyone within hearing range to distraction. Perhaps these songs are the "group version" of the hum. Bielle 00:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the point of those songs is that they are LONG and you don't forget the words. I just timed myself - it took 8 seconds to sing one round of 99 bottles - so it takes over 13 minutes to sing it all the way through - there aren't many songs that last that long. Interestingly, there is a UK English song that's very similar to 99 bottles of beer: "10 green bottles, standing on the wall, 10 green bottles standing on the wall - and if one green bottle should accidentally fall, there'll be 9 green bottles standing on the wall." - Then there is "Old MacDonald had a farm" where every time around someone adds an animal and the noises that you have to make get more and more contentious and silly "An Ardvaark does NOT go either "aaard" or "vaaark"...and so on. SteveBaker 00:13, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

July 21

Supermarket fruit

I live in the US. A friend of mine recently said that she had heard of supermarkets storing fruits for up to two years before they are sold. I don't really believe it's that long, but how long on average does it take from a fruit being picked to being actually sold in a supermarket? Also, is it possible to preserve a fruit for two years (or how long would it be possible?) and have the taste and texture stay relatively the same? 68.231.151.161 01:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Even if you "preserved" the fruit by canning, drying or freezing, it would suffer deterioration of flavor and appearance over a 2 year period, although it might still be edible. Edison 03:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A very few fruits can (and are) regularly stored for extended periods of time. Under low-temperature, low-oxygen, high-humidity conditions, apples are regularly stored for several months[12]. However, as far as I know there are no fruits that are stored for years.

I suppose that under the right conditions of temperature, humidity, and atmosphere one might be able to store at least some fruits for a couple of years before sale, but as far as I know nobody has developed such technology on any sort of large scale and certainly nobody uses it. It's less expensive to import fresh fruits and vegetables from warmer climates than it would be to build massive climate-controlled warehouses. The actual amount of time from tree to store shelves depends on the fruit, but probably ranges from several days to several weeks for most.

This site has a wealth of information about fruits. Follow the links and scroll down to the section on storage to get an idea of how long many popular fruits can last, and under what conditions. Strawberries have a maximum storage life of 5 to 7 days, whereas the larger, thicker-skinned grapefruit can be held for more than a month. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 10:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've noticed that apples in the US in plastic bags are never fresh. Some are rotten to the core, but with the skin perfectly preserved. Even those which aren't rotten have a mushy texture instead of a crisp fresh apple texture. I've since decided apples sold in plastic bags are only suitable for feeding pigs. I buy fresh, individual apples or don't buy them at all. I suspect the American apple industry has "shot itself in the foot" by allowing such poor quality apples to be sold, and that apple sales and prices would be far higher had they banned this practice and only sold fresh apples. StuRat 16:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Feasibility of LA-Vancouver

How long would everyone recommend for a driving trip from LA-Vancouver, taking in mind that this'll be taken in early November and that we'd want to stop by Portland and Seattle too. Is there anywhere else that we shouldn't miss at any cost?

AlmostCrimes 03:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You must be excited by the prospect of this road trip. It's difficult to answer because there are way too many variables between point A and point B. For example, your "not to be missed" list is going to change substantially based on:

a whole bunch of considerations no one will think of until its too late;
how many people will share the driving responsibility;
the personal preferences, temperament and budget of travelers;
friends and relatives you may know along the way;
whether you intend to do all-interstate driving, or are willing to take "back roads" and "scenic" destinations;
whether you are interested in "tourist trap" places, or only want to know about what the "locals" consider to be the best; ... and most importantly
what on Earth interests you? (fine food? romance? nature and scenic vistas? museums? historic landmarks? skateboard parks? potential change in residence?)

The best answer you are going to get without more details is this. Go to Google, and cut-and-paste the following into the search box:

   "driving * los angeles to vancouver"

The rest is up to your imagination. Have a great trip. dr.ef.tymac 14:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It could be done in a couple long days or so on I-5, I'd expect. I'd want to drive along at least a portion of the coast in California and Oregon for the amazing scenery, sea cliffs, redwood forests, etc. A few years ago we drove from Santa Barbara to Seattle, mostly along the coast and not driving longer than 8 hours or so per day. It took 3 days. Pfly 15:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Google Maps estimates 19 hrs actual drivetime (it's generally rather conservative), so that's two days if you're team-driving and just want to press on, and three for a single driver taking modest breaks. So that's the basic benchmark, a no-fun two/three day deathdrive. Beyond that it's just a function of what you want to see. You could easily spend two weeks on the whole trip depending, as Dreftymac notes, on what you actually want to do. Some ideas for the SF to LA part:

The Sonoma coast and the Russian River
Napa/Sonoma, if you're at all into wine. Fancy dining too (the determined and wealthy gourmand may score the French Laundry, but there's sensible places too - Sonoma, California itself is very nice)
San Francisco (great museums, eating, scenery, culture, history)
detour inland (ideally in an SUV, at the very least a car with snowchains) and:
- go skiing at Lake Tahoe for a couple of days (much less crowded on weekdays) - the drive from SF is only 4 or 5 hours
- if you're into gambling combine Tahoe with Reno, Nevada (or, if you're pushed for time, Stateline, Nevada)
- visit Yosemite, if you like outdoors stuff and brought some warm clothing (while it'll be 60 degrees plus at the coast, it'll be below freezing at Yosemite)
- personally I think Death Valley is brilliant (much more so than the boring old Grand Canyon) and it'll be nice in November: it's about a day's drive from SF (Beatty, Nevada is a cheap base for Death Valley, and there are some ghost towns nearby. If you're going out that far you might was well take in Las Vegas too, 1.5 hrs from Beatty),
Getting from San Francisco to LA one makes a major decision - take Interstate 5 and be there in a day (don't bother with the cities on I5 between SF and LA) or take the California State Route 1 (the pacific coast highway) and take 3 to 5 days or more (it's a safe road, but it winds an fair amount, sometimes over cliffs, so nervous drivers might have issues with parts of it). I'm going to assume your idea of holidays doesn't consist extreme sensory deprivation and boredom (sorry Fresno) so I'll talk about Highway 1 (and or Highway 101) from now on, rather than I5
Half Moon Bay is nice
I'd skip San Jose and the Silicon Valley (although Stanford Uni and Palo Alto are quite pleasant)
Santa Cruz, California (hippies, boardwalk, surf, beach, although November is a bit late in the year to enjoy the water, which is chilly even in summer)
Monterey, California (aquarium is excellent) and nearby Carmel-by-the-Sea, California (expensive shopping, old Mission)
Hearst Castle near San Simeon
San Luis Obispo
Santa Barbara

I don't know what people do in LA, other than shoot one another and complain about how bad the valet parking is at Starbucks, but maybe someone less jaundiced might have an idea. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Finlay McWalter's (as usual) well-considered answer is nonetheless proof positive of why you're probably going to have to eventually answer this yourself. For example, he recommended you basically skip everything between San Jose and SFO. I'd actually agree with that, unless you plan to work for a biotech company in the USA, and you want a good idea of where you will probably be spending the rest of your working days (for just one of infinitely many reasons). Also, that region has some of the best moderately-priced restaurants for international cuisine. Similarly, Oregon and Washington have some pretty decent wineries also, some of which are not too far from the I-5 corridor if I am not mistaken. The prices and variety will tend to be lower compared to Sonoma Valley.

Relatedly, many of Finlay McWalter's excellent suggestions are nevertheless going to involve considerably much more time waiting in traffic, higher fuel expenses, and more parking hassles than if you wait to do your sight-seeing in Oregon, Washington and Canada (this is the kind of stuff that seems like no big deal until you are actually in it).

You might also want to go to your local bookstore and check out the Lonely Planet series for the states in question, or just search their website. dr.ef.tymac 16:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Barring SF (where one should park the car and walk) and LA (which is an irredeemably screwed place) I wouldn't expect any traffic issues anywhere, bar some easily avoidable (Palo Alto rush hour, or the friday night bayArea->tahoe commute). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps not, but then compare the definition of "traffic issues" in Castro Valley with those of Cottage Grove or Centralia; night and day. dr.ef.tymac

I would recommend, if you decide to go to Death Valley, that you drive there from Los Angeles first, rather than driving all the way to San Francisco and then driving to Death Valley. There are a couple of considerations when you do your drive though: Interstate 5 is a good choice, as is Route 1 along the coast, which is an absolutely beautiful drive all the way up to Santa Cruz. But another choice is California Highway 99, which is further east than Interstate 5, but passes through more cities (Bakersfield, Fresno, Stockton) and therefore has more choices as far as stopping to eat and use facilities (as well as shopping or whatever else you might want to do along the way). HOWEVER: In November, both I-5 and Highway 99 can suffer from tule fog, which is a VERY dangerous condition, especially for someone who doesn't know about it. If the tule fog hits, the best thing to do is to pull over to the right, as far away from traffic as you can go without going into a ditch, and wait it out. Corvus cornix 20:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you all, that's all been more helpful than I could have hoped to expect. This is catered towards a family of 4, are there any particularly good places to walk for a day, parks, reserves? AlmostCrimes 12:22, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wildlife Safari in Winston, Oregon is fun. The Oregon Vortex isn't too terribly far from there. A stop at the Oregon Caves might be worthwhile, depends on how old the kids are. Then you can head over to the coast for the Sea Lion Caves and shoot up north to the Oregon Coast Aquarium. That's 2-3 days of fun right there. There really is way too much great stuff to see and do between LA and Vancouver for a hundred trips let alone just one. 161.222.160.8 00:33, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Redwood National and State Parks and nearby Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park are places I want to go. Should be lots of walking available there, and some of the world's tallest trees! Pfly 01:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What other US states.................

......besides Texas has "Failure to ID" statutes ? In Texas, the penalty is 180 days in jail, and/or a $5,000 fine, a police record saying that the violator has committed a misdemeanor crime. Was told that "Ignorance of the law is NO excuse" as well. 205.240.146.58 03:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Had a "typo" error. 205.240.146.58 03:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A officer asks "you" for ID. You tell him/her "you" left it in your OTHER wallet, don't have ID, etc., then the cop arrests "you" for "Failure to ID". 205.240.146.58 03:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We aren't allowed to give legal advice on Wikipedia. See a lawyer. So I can't answer what other states have similar laws.

Personally, (and I'm not a lawyer) I think you are VASTLY inflating the seriousness of this. In Texas it seems that there are three separate offences - according to this document [13], they are:

Class A Misdemenor - Failure to Identify (giving false identifying info if fugitive)

Class B Misdemenor - Failure to Identify (false identifying info if not a fugitive or no identifying info if a fugitive)

Class C Misdemenor - Failure to Identify (with no identifying info given and not a fugitive)

So as far as I can tell - so long as you don't give FALSE ID - and so long as you aren't a fugitive - then it's a class C misdemenor which according to this[14] is at most a $500 fine and no jail time and definitely not a $5,000 fine. But this page [15] says that this class C case only applies to a person if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person...simply not having your wallet with you isn't enough to get you in trouble. Firstly he has to have arrested you for some other reason - secondly you must INTENTIONALLY refuse to tell him your name, address or date of birth - or you have to have lied to him (a bad idea since that's a class B misdemenor which WILL get you up to 180 days in jail and up to $2,000 fine). I don't see where you even have to prove this with an ID card. But I could easily be wrong - I'm not a lawyer - I just don't want you to present false information because that's even worse than me doing it (at least I have references!)...but check my sources - ask a lawyer. I think you're panicking over absolutely nothing. If a cop arrests you for something - just tell him your name, your birthday and where you live...he's going to figure it out sooner or later - and you'll just piss him off by not doing it. SteveBaker 04:54, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unless I have missed something, the question was: What States, aside from Texas, have a "Failure to Identify" statute? I don't think it has been answered. Bielle 05:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We're not allowed to answer legal questions - so I'm not answering it. I don't have a problem with disagreeing with the (trolling) premise however. SteveBaker 13:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Edit conflict.) Nonsense. We can answer questions like these; it takes no legal knowledge or understanding to answer, just the ability to do some research. For example, one might note Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, which contains exactly such a list of states. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 14:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, Wikipedia:Legal disclaimer specifies that: "WIKIPEDIA DOES NOT GIVE LEGAL OPINIONS" (emphasis in original). Although WP does contain articles touching on legal topics -- analysis of statutes, case law, administrative rules, ordinances, or any other legally operative language is clearly not appropriate here (regardless of whether the contributor is a lawyer). This is especially so if that analysis is claimed to apply to a specific individual or a specific set of facts and circumstances.

In contrast, anyone is free to cite references without applying "analysis" to those references or "rendering opinions" based on those references. This is precisely what the reference desk is for.

Considering, therefore, that the original question simply asked for references ... and considering that a substantial portion of this thread completely ignores that question, and then goes on to provide the very kind of analysis that it presumes to proscribe (interpreting statutes, giving advice on how to respond, what not to worry about, etc.) all contributors may do well to reflect on their own contributions, and refrain from posting non-responsive "answers" filled with all kinds of dubious "advice" (legal or otherwise).

As for the original question, Wikipedia already has articles that you might want to read. These are not a substitute for professional advice. Wikipedia is not the place to go for personal advice. (See e.g., Terry v. Ohio, Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada). dr.ef.tymac 13:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It must be noted that someone may reference a genuine legal opinion, but it may only apply to a given jurisdiction, or it may have been made obsolete by statue or by an appeal to a higher court. A list of which states have which statutes, presented as dicta in an opinion from some court, is not necessarily correct even at the time it is typed up, and some of the states may have changed their laws the next week. As for the sniping at Steve Baker, he correctly pointed out incorrect or misleading assumptions or statements in the original question. Otherwise incorrect information would have been propagated by leaving the question to stand. Edison 20:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see a list of states in the EWikipedia article about the Hiibel opinion, but not in the opinion itself. Edison 21:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You may want to read Stop and Identify statutes. Jon513 20:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"someone may reference a genuine legal opinion, but it may only apply to a given jurisdiction, or it may have been made obsolete by statue or by an appeal to a higher court"

Which is only a tiny sampling of reasons why personalized "legal analysis" is not appropriate in reference desk answers to begin with. Even if the "analysis" were 100% "correct", "applicable" and "authoritative", there's still the not-so-minor UPL contingency to avoid. If someone happens to give references that are completely irrelevant or misleading: Wikipedia makes no guarantee of validity ... caveat inquisitor.

"As for the sniping at Steve Baker, he correctly pointed out incorrect or misleading assumptions"

The admonition I offered was to "all contributors" (a class of which I myself am a member) so the term "sniping" may be a bit "off the mark". Moreover, "factual corrections" and "advice" are two different kinds of responses. The former does not necessitate the latter. I leave it for others to distinguish which is which. dr.ef.tymac 23:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea how things work in Texas and this is obviously not legal advice or a legal opinion, but I would have to agree with Steve here. Very likely, by ID it simply means you have to identify yourself when asked not that you have to provide proof of that identification on the spot. You may be required to provide proof but usually you will be given time to do so e.g. 24 hours. You don't have to provide proof on the spot. If driving, things may be different since often you are required to carry a driver's license with you at all times while driving. Nil Einne 13:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trolleys

What's inside this part of the trolley?

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/1897/trolleywhatnz3.jpg

--4.227.2.16 05:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wooden benches facing inward, and a bit of standing room between, with leather loops to hang onto. (The picture shows a San Francisco cable car, at the foot of California Street.) —Tamfang 07:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which, note, is not a trolley car. Trolley cars operate elsewhere in San Francisco. --Anon, July 21, 07:30 (UTC).

Pay per hour

Does anyone happen to know how much a person is paid for having a job at blockbuster video. For those of you who have worked there.--logger 05:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about $649,543/yr? Starting pay will vary depending on the locale, but a quick google search turned up starting rates ranging from $9 to $12 per hour. 152.16.188.107 09:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It would help if you told us which country you live in. Rockpocket 18:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Math riddle

Can anybody help me out with this? It's not homework (it's summer, for crying out loud), just some riddle I found in the Kingdom of Loathing chat. It's really bugging me. Any ideas?

Use the numbers 1, 5, 6, and 7 only once in any combination with unlimited uses of +, - , and * to equal 21.

Thanks in advance - --ParakeetSong 05:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

using some other - somewhat dodgy functions

5!!+6*(1^7)=21

where 5!! denotes the two step factorial function (5*3) Thepalm 06:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Less weird, providing decimals are permitted, is 1*6*7*.5 HYENASTE 08:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that (or a variant of it; you can move the decimal point to another number, for example) is the expected answer. The idea is that you're supposed to read the problem as requiring that the four digits and instances of the permitted operators are the only characters you're allowed to put in the expression. I actually wrote a quickie program to test all such combinations, including ones like 16+5*-7 where two or more digits or operators were adjacent, and nothing evaluated to 21.

Then I realized that the problem says nothing about the use of characters that are not numbers or operators.

(Of course, .5 is not the same "number" as 5 in the mathematical sense, but that's a quibble; it's reasonable to use "number" to refer to a digit as well.)

--Anonymous, July 21, 08:15 (UTC).

Cool, thanks for the help!--ParakeetSong 07:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Potter - Deathly Hallows - not a spoiler - instead a question about book-pricing.

Here in the UK we have seen ASDA a national superstore chain, part of Walmart, apologise to Bloomsbury the HP UK publishers, for attacking the planned recommended retail price of Deathy Hallows at £17.50. After accepting the apology and restoring ASDA's 500,000 copies on the understanding that ASDA would charge the discounted price of £8.50, ASDA immediately took posession of their allocation and reduced the price to £5 per copy. So, in brief, who gets what from the sale of a book? There are publishers, printers, distributors, PR people, advertising, lawyers, stores, and oh, I nearly forgot, J.K. Rowling, the authoress. I accept that every book will have different formulae attached, but can ASDA sell a book at £5 and still pay Bloomsbury their asking price? Thanks.

ASDA is almost certainly selling the book as a loss leader, hoping it'll a) generate publicity (it has: people are even asking questions about it on Wikipedia) and b) you'll go into the store to buy your £5 copy and you'll buy other stuff. ASDA know that many many people have never been inside an ASDA, or haven't been for a long time, so getting you to come (and inevitably walk around and price other stuff) carries a healthy chance they'll convert someone to being a new regular customer. As to pricing - retail markup on stuff is generally around 100%, but a big purchaser like ASDA (who will also buy lots of other, less popular, books from Bloomsbury, and can chose to put them in prominent places or less prominent places) will be able to negotiate a steep discount. So maybe ASDA are paying £5 or £6 for the book (although the incur costs in shipping, stocking, and selling the book, so their real cost is a pound or two more than that). As to Ms.Rowling: typically an author might make £1 to £2 from that £17.50, but she has unprecedented bargaining power and seems to be a shrewd negotiator, so she may have negotiated a higher rate. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I read somewhere (I think it was the Guardian a couple of days ago) that Bloomsbury supply the book at £10.76 a copy, and pretty much all the supermarkets are selling it as a loss-leader. Ms Rowling, of course, will get her not-insubstantial cut from Bloomsbury. -- Arwel (talk) 11:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tesco are offering the book for £10, or £5 if the customer spends £50 in the store. This would point to a "loss-leader" of sorts. -=# Amos E Wolfe ^talk #=- 20:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Those little plastic monster fingerpuppets from the 90s

What is the name of those little monster things that went on the end of your finger that were popular in the 90s? They were spikey and made of soft translucent plastic and came in bright flurorescent colours and had their mouths wide open with little spikey arms flailing? --58.170.212.62 15:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Finger monsters? This seems to be an up-to-date version, which means that they don't quite look like the ones I remember. These look a bit closer to my old ones. Skittle 15:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The meaning of life?

Could someone please help me out with the meaning of life? --Don217 18:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See The meaning of life for the philosophical debate about this question. Rockpocket 18:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You may be interested in the eponymous book by Douglas Adams which discusses the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything. There is also a Monty Python film: The Meaning of Life, and a book by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd called The Meaning of Liff. -=# Amos E Wolfe ^talk #=- 20:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See this for a comprehensive and definitive meaning of life... Laïka 21:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also by Douglas Adams: The Meaning of Liff and The Deeper Meaning of Liff. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.stat.pitt.edu/stoffer/dss.html#F

http://books.google.com/books?id=TCAUagXFG4sC&printsec=frontcover#PPA27,M1 Gzuckier 17:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What is faster mph jaguar or bentley?

Probably Jag. --Don217 18:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which Jag ? Which Bentley ? Actually the big Bently is one of the fastest cars so I suspect it would leave the biggest Jag behind.90.9.83.210 15:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)DT[reply]

grading Alevel papers with absent in a component

how does normally Cambridge international examination marks an Alevel paper with an absence in a part of component , despite getting students ungraded? and what is the use of expected grades in this process? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.148.64.18 (talk • contribs)

Take a look here [16] and if it doesn't help, try asking them not us Nil Einne 13:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to identify a smoking pipe.

I have no clue who to talk to, but wikipedia does seem a great source of information, and it's a large community. So hopefully my little fact finding mission can stir the right information up. I've tried looking elsewhere, and tried a few different searches here... but apparently there's some difficulty in tracking down might-no-longer-exist companies and their products. I'm not sure they're around anymore, but I think I've at least identified the right company so far. I found a pipe on a beach, I forget which beach, but it was on the East Coast of the United States, northern... anyhow, the pipe was mostly intact, well enough to read most of what was written on it (most of). For instance, on one side of the stem-thinger, it says "T 78" and some space between before: "W White" On the other side of the stem it says "Glasgow" Well I checked it out, and W White and Sons was a pipe company out of Glasgow Scotland, that exported a lot of pipes, so that much is likely. It also had a large D on the actual bowl, thinger, whatever it's called of the pipe... the space before it was chipped. It's a very plain, white pipe, the sort of 'standard' pipe I kept finding of "W White" but I couldn't identify how old or any other information on it. The D could be part of someones initials, I suppose... but the T 78? Model, I guess, but whether it is or not I can't find any strong information on W White or their pipes. The little information I did get says the pipe could be from anywhere between 1805 and 1955, if the site was accurate. Which leads me to believe the company was sold, or what-not, which doesn't help me with the actual indentifying of the pipe... Oh, the T 78 might be a T Z8, the 7/Z/whatever it might be is in question as well.

I suppose my question is whether anyone has any useful bits of information, or suggestions on how I can get such bits of information on the pipe (or W White, which might lead me to it) 74.75.135.23 18:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found an archaeological report online which mentioned clay pipes made by W White of Glasgow, and referenced "Oswald, A., 1975. Clay Pipes for the Archaeologist. British Archaeological Reports, Oxford". DuncanHill 22:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have to check it out. Thank you! I think I'll make a binder of all the bits of information I find, because something tells me I'm going to end up browsing some libraries. Good place to find odd books with odd information.74.75.135.23 16:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kangaroo Leather - Interstate Commerce

Was wondering if the FTC or other entity regulating interstate commerce would trump California law for importation of kangaroo leather. Maybe that's a legal question but it seems general enough - federal law trumps state law.

Are there specific laws on the subject or is this a theoretical excercise? 68.39.174.238 22:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

California prohibits import of kangaroo leather goods for sale, but they are available for sale in other states.

That is what's puzzling.

When did that law go into effect? When Charlie O. Finley owned the Oakland Athletics, they wore kangaroo leather shoes. Corvus cornix 21:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

653o. (a) It is unlawful to import into this state for commercial purposes, to possess with intent to sell, or to sell within the state, the dead body, or any part or product thereof, of... kangaroo, ...

(c) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be subject to a fine of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000) and not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not to exceed six months, or both such fine and imprisonment, for each violation.

(d) The prohibitions against importation for commercial purposes, possession with intent to sell, and sale of the species listed in this section are severable. A finding of the invalidity of any one or more prohibitions shall not affect the validity of any remaining prohibitions.

shia population

what is the near to exact(reliable) total of shia population in world by 2007 , country wise — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.148.64.18 (talk • contribs)

Try Adherents.com Algebraist 22:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know - but rapidly diminishing?

green tea?

i have heard having 3-4 cups of green tea in summer (temprature around 45' centigrade) can make u seriouly ill bcoz green tea makes ur body very warm from inside/

is that true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.148.64.18 (talk • contribs)

45 degrees Celsius? You would be sick quick if you DIDN'T drink any liquid. For the green tea matter, that is absolute rubbish, as it won't change your core temperature by much (you will be more likely to die from water intoxication from drinking too much tea than drinking so much tea that your body can't cope with the elevated temperature). --antilived^{T | C | G} 21:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Humans vs Dogs again

Sorry for putting this thing up again, I have read most of the discussion about the subject in theese pages but noone have mentioned the fact that dogs can be tricked to run away if you throw something at them. Even if you pretend that you go down, grab something and throw it at them they are likely to stop or even run away. I have been knowing this since childhood, I have used it to defend myself few times. There is also an old movie (one about a guy in Alaska who pet a wolf durring the gold times) which mentions somewhere that dogs admire human's ability to grab and throw things (which is something they can't do) so when you do it (or pretend to do it) you remind them of who is superior and thus they panic. So the first questiong is do you agree with that? is there somewhere a reference? And the seccond question: what is the name of the movie, it's good movie I want to watch it again! racergr 19:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is pretty baseless to speculate as to whether dogs "admire" humans for any particular reason. And they certainly don't necessarily panic when you throw things — most of the time they just want to play fetch, and probably enjoy chasing things (chase instinct is pretty common in predator-like animals). My dog can be fooled once, but usually not twice in a row. And my dog can also throw things if she wants do by grabbing it in her mouth and tossing it (obviously the shape of the thing in question can help). --24.147.86.187 22:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well I think I made clear that I'm speaking about throwing something against them in an attempt to hit them, which is something that a dog cannot do. Has anyone else heard about that or is it just an urban legend? --racergr 01:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dogs do not have that level of intelligence. I would venture that the dog runs away because it doesn't want to get hit by a thrown object. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 00:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A handy tool for dog training is the "throw-chain"; the name suggests a spare chain collar, but often it's a beverage can with a few pebbles inside; I used to use my keychain. Should have some heft, and make noise. Anyway, in the initial stages of training a dog, when you call him/her to come and he/she runs away instead, you heave this thing at their hind end. The major trick is not to let them see you throw it. If you do it correctly, they come to believe that you can reach out and smack their rear from 20-30 feet away. So, no, they do not have an intuitive understanding of throwing something; but they do learn quickly ways in which you have superior capabilities, even if they are actually wrong. Gzuckier 17:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Will cleveland become to city to be?

cleveland seems to be at the center of attention is this true? whats the crime like? --Mistrel4life 20:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Horrible. In the 1920s and/or 1930s they had a psycho who murdered and cut up people. 205.240.146.58 21:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The sicko even took human flesh to a butcher shop. 205.240.146.58 22:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Center of attention? Where? Anyway, that was MANY years ago, but if you want to read about it anyway... Cleveland Torso Murderer. 68.39.174.238 22:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that was obvious since 205 made it clear it was in the 1920s/1930s Nil Einne 13:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prevention of Hoaxes (Reference Desk queries) Act 2007

Me again, with another questionable location tagged as a hoax. Anyone from New York (Center) that really knows the place? Someone thinks that Ansonia, Manhattan is a fraud and an opinion from knowledgeable people would help. Thanx, 68.39.174.238 21:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Whether it is a fraud or not, the fact that it includes the sentence "the name is not popular and its use would be likely to be met with confusion and strange looks" probably means that it is not notable enough for an enyclopedia article. --24.147.86.187 22:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Ansonia New York" -hotel returns 28 hits on Google, "Ansonia Manhattan" returns 22. Either a hoax or a completely non-notable alternative name for this place. I'd AFD it. I come across hoaxes related to pop music relatively frequently (completely made-up albums and singles) - sometimes I wish that WP would crack down harder on the people that create this stuff. --Kurt Shaped Box 22:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx to whoever fixed it and the infoes. 68.39.174.238 18:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

July 22

Data mining and wikipedia.

Hi. I saw a prospective article on slashdot that mentioned the ability to get time series data on what topics were searched and when. The link to the page that would allow this was broken and apparently quite wrong.

I am a grad student doing research and I want to used this data. Sorry to bother you (whoever answers), but I haven't been able to find any other reference to this data. Can I get to it somehow through the Wikipedia dump?

Thank you!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Happyheretic (talk • contribs) 00:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Statistics has links to a number of potentially useful pages, though I don't know of any that lets you see what pages were searched for and when. You might also check out Wikipedia:Statistics Department, though they seem somewhat inactive. --24.147.86.187 17:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Was it WikiCharts? This shows the most viewed pages, although it is a tad depressing; the biggest hits tend to be Naruto, sex, porn and list of Pokémon... Laïka 19:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do any of you other users have the name of someone with the wikiwisdom to be able to get that data?Happyheretic 21:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Criminology-forensic science

Our local police is very slow in anlayzing finger prints. they are still using manual concept. My questions is " Is there possibility that our University can develop a school-specific forensic capability to solve campus crime? crimes like cellphone stealing, robbery and theft, other crimes against property?

Thanks

fire

There is certainly a possibility, though the probability of it being successful is low. The technological challenges notwithstanding, and depending on the jurisdiction of your school - a non-professional presenting fingerprints as evidence of a crime would probably be legally inadmissible. And, without access to a national database to compare a fingerprint to, persuading a suspect to give a sample for comparative purposes is unlikely (and may well be an infringement of their civil rights). Rockpocket 04:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the crime world is not like CSI where you just scan in a fingerprint and press a button and within minutes the fingerprint is compared to every single man or woman in the world's fingerprint. Sounds unlikely to me... -- Theunicyclegirl ^talk 16:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you have fingerprints of the thief (say from recovered stolen property) and fingerprints of the suspect (or a small group of suspects), it's relatively simple to compare them. Some issues you may encounter is the suspect not wanting to give his prints and the object containing extraneous prints from the owner, the person who found it, and other's who've touched it. But, if you have a fingerprint on it from someone who swears he never touched it, that's fairly good evidence that he's the thief. StuRat 09:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dating

I am amashed to admit this, but am 21 and one-half years old and never been on a first date. I am curious to know if there are anyone has any suggestions for what to do or what not to do, and what to aviod on a first date. Thank you. 76.211.106.140 05:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't stab the man or woman you're on a date with. A Very Noisy Lolcat 07:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Be light-hearted and fun, kind and thoughtful. Try to get them to talk about themselves, what they like what they do. Avoid conflict. Talk about things you like to do, if you think it is going well add in casual "we could do that some time" style comments about things they seem interested in. Above all try to enjoy yourself as that's when the natural you will shine through. ny156uk 10:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just don't make it a big, insurmountable challenge, a major event, etc. You will have more dates. This is just the first one. Try to have fun. Also, avoid non-words like amashed. ;-) And don't be ashamed, there's no shame in it. --24.147.86.187 14:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't try to impress the other person with how smart, or strong, or accomplished, or rich, or whatever you are. Don't boast or brag. Don't talk all the time about what you like, or what you have done. Ask questions about what the other person likes to do, or believes in, or what their background is. When they answer, listen! Don't be constantly thinking about what you are going to say next while they are talking--it's rude and insensitive. Laugh, smile, joke, but don't be crude or negative. Don't be critical. Don't whine or complain. Pretend you are with your best friend, or with your family. Make a joke about this being your first date, they probably won't believe you! If they don't like you, so what! Ask someone else out! Remember that we like those people best who give us their full attention, that make us feel smart and important.--Eriastrum 16:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How cliché is this, but: BE YOURSELF!!! Seriously, a lot of people who are on a first date are so nervous that they think it's much easier to make up a façade of a kind. You end up just tangled up in lies and when the other person finds out that you really aren't the way you acted, things can go wrong. Very wrong. =D Best of luck to ya! -- Theunicyclegirl ^talk 16:32, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nice sensible and thoughtful answers.--88.109.207.20 19:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who, what, when and where questions help you learn the most about people. The biggest failure for someone without experience is probably coming on too strong. Happyheretic 21:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Happyheretic is right. Don't start telling them "we HAVE to get together again!" or "I love you!" (BIG no brainer), that'll just scare them off. Be relaxed... --PolarWolf 23:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the suggestions. I will keep these pointer in mind when (if?) I manage to get a date. The funny thing about this is that as an older sibling I always figured i'd be the one giving my little brother advice on dating, and here he's the one giving me pointers. I suppose thats what I get for being girl-shy. Oh well. 76.211.106.140 08:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lines you may choose to avoid to improve your chances:

Your sister is very attractive
Your brother is very attractive
Your dog is very attractive
The voices in my head tell me you are the one for me
Your hair is very attractive-particularly the left nostril
You don't sweat much for a big girl.

Happy to help Lemon martini 14:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here, from the perspective of slightly more than 50 years, are some important secrets:

If you ask someone out and they say "no", it could mean either of two things:

- For some reason, they don't want to date you, at least, not right now.

- For some reason, the date you proposed simply didn't appeal or wasn't logistically possible.

One of the keys to being successful in meeting a partner is to correctly distinguish the first case from the second. For the first case, move on (at least for now); as the saying goes, "there are plenty of fish in the sea". For the second case, perservere, at least a bit, especially if you felt some interest in return ("I'd like to, but I'm already booked for tonight...").

Generally speaking, a rejection from one person does not forecast how others will react. People react to all sorts of cues, some obvious, some not so obvious, some rational, some emotional. Maybe you remind someone of their mother/father/ex-/ex's lawyer. Maybe they know you adore sports but they'd rather sit home and read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. But unless there's really something pathological going on, there's almost certainly a lot of people in the world who would be happy to meet you/date you/etc...

And when you get that date, if you want someone to think you're a brilliant conversationalist, listen. And if you want them to keep talking, ask them open-ended questions about themselves; people love to talk about themselves, even people who think they don't. And lots of people are actually pretty interesting to talk to...

Atlant 17:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Those are all good answers, but I’m not so sure you should be asking a bunch of people who sit around at their computer answering questions on Wikipedia, about the best way to act on a date. :-) Just kidding. I’m sure Wikipedians are all very popular. “An ounce of love is worth a pound of knowledge.” –John Wesley (Don’t you just love Wikiquote!) --S.dedalus 04:45, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Drawing

Is being able to draw something you're born with, or can you learn how to do it?

The answer is: both. Like most skills, drawing is part aptitude and a lot attitude. There is no question that some people just have to pick up a pencil and realistic objects pop off the page. For the rest of us, there are teachers and books. Everyone can be better at drawing than they are now. Most of the improvement is practice, and learning to look at things and see what is really there, and not what you think is there. Fortunately, even for those of us who never can meet our own standard of excellence, there is a lot of art that explores creativity, but doesn't require being able to draw. Bielle 08:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A huge amount of drawing is technique. You can learn these technique through courses, books, study. Understanding of things like perspective, distnace, balance, shadows etc. can be taught. There is an English artist called John WIlson who creates paintings that mix child-like art with adult-art (see here: http://www.artforall.co.uk/wilsonjohnd.htm). He notes that even the great masters painted like children once. What you are left with are these extremely detailed minatures of classics with very messy child-like drawings of people. Wonderful stuff. ny156uk 10:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I like to think of it like a musical instrument. With a lot of practice you can get your hands to go through the movements you need to play piano, guitar, etc. You can memorize lots of convenient tricks and great sounding combinations. But at some level, there will be a line of mastery that separates out the really talented people from the less talented ones. Most people will never be on the "master" side of that line. But that doesn't mean you can't be good, can't have fun with it, can't make a career out of it. Most guitarists are not Jimi Hendrix but they're still happy to play in a band. Most artists are not Da Vinci but they still have fun with it. --24.147.86.187 14:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you are interested in developing your ability to draw, it does take practice--as the posters above indicate. Get a sketch pad and take it with you everywhere--a small one to put in your pocket that you can carry everywhere you go, even at work and school, and a larger one to take with you when possible. Every spare second, take it out and draw, draw, draw. Whatever, whomever you see. Virtually every artist with good technique in the world does this, or has done it. Leonardo did it, Gerome did it, Henry Moore did it, and all the other artists you have never heard of. No matter how much "talent" you might have, you still need practice. Either pencil or pen will do fine.--Eriastrum 16:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Adding to that, I just want to add that in general the belief in "natural talent" is almost always journalistic flair, not reality. People do not burst out of the womb knowing how to do very much. It takes a lot of hard work to train your hands to represent what you see with your eyes or imagine in your brain — a lot of it is just body-memory and coordination, getting the minimum physical ability before you can start doing anything really creative. There is an awful, particularly American trope that "expressive" arts (drawing, poetry, fiction writing, etc.) should be unmediated, unedited, "your first try is the most authentic and should always be preserved," an expression of some sort of latent talent in the artist. This is a horrible falsehood and has spawned much awful poetry and many awful books. Great artists try and try again. Great artists spend a lot of time learning. Great artists are not afraid to look at something they made and say, "eh, I could do this better, I'd better try again." In helping college students with their essay writing I have to really force them to "unlearn" this sort of idea, and learn the idea that their first drafts are probably going to be very flawed, and that their writing will improve over subsequent attempts and a lot of heavy editing. It is no different with drawing. These things can be learned, and these things can be taught. I am suspicious that there is no such thing as a natural ability which does not need practicing and improvement, but if there is, it is precariously rare and should not be held up as some sort of standard. --24.147.86.187 17:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inflating vacuums

What brands of vacuums can be used to inflate things?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.190.135 (talk • contribs)

It's more to do with the configuration than the brand. All cylinder models have this facility, although sometimes it is not obvious, for example you might have to remove the filter to get to the "blow hole". And most modern uprights can do it (but not the lightweight models). I don't think wet/dry vacs (e.g. the Henry) have this facility.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:48, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A Dream I had

In my dream that I had, the song I Surrender All (song) was the theme song to the entire series of Walker, Texas Ranger.

Why in my dreams do I think about Walker, Texas Ranger when I hear I Surrender All sung on KXBJ-FM, AFR or in a church? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.18.90.17 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 22 July 2007.

The song you linked to is a redlink - that means there's no article there. The other "I surrender all" you linked to is an album not a song. If you can point us some information about the song, maybe we can find a connection between it and the show. --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 16:29, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

also, linking random words doesn't help. --PolarWolf 00:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Purchasing a bong

Is it illegal for a minor (under 18) to purchase a bong for smoking marijuana in Ontario, Canada? Acceptable 16:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know, but I do know that bongs can be used for tobacco, so clearly you'll want to say you want it for tobacco. Kuronue 17:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but Wikipedia cannot give legal opinions, and even if it could, you shouldn't trust them.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They didn't ask for our opinions, they asked for a verifiable fact. A.Z. 19:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK let's put it this way: as far as I know it's perfectly legal, but the law is complex and you need to verify that fact with a lawyer or you could get into trouble.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:59, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Long term vandals and ISP

I have heard many long-term vandals in Wikipedia "have their ISP blocked" because of destructive vandalism. What does "having their ISP blocked" mean?--PrestonH 19:53, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If a sufficient amount of vandalism comes from one or more editors who are customers of a particular ISP (internet service provider), then Wikipedia may take more drastic steps. We may block the entire range of IP addresses belonging to that ISP from editing or from creating Wikipedia accounts. We may also contact the ISP directly—vandalising Wikipedia or creating accounts to harrass other editors usually violates that ISP's terms of service, and the ISP may terminate the account of the vandal(s) involved.

In deciding whether or not to block an entire ISP, we consider a number of factors:

What proportion of edits from that ISP are vandalism?
How many non-vandal editors are likely to be inconvenienced?
How large is the ISP?
Has the ISP responded favourably to our requests for assistance?

If an ISP is 'blocked', then none of that ISP's customers will be able to edit Wikipedia anonymously or create Wikipedia accounts. (In rare cases, we may even bar logged-in editors from editing Wikipedia, as well.) Blocking an entire ISP is usually a last resort. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, IPs get entire blocks of addresses (EG. AOL is infamously 172.0.0.0 - 172.255.255.255 I think, IE. Any IP that starts with 172 is an AOLer). If we get FLOODED with vandalisms from a certain IP, someone can block all the IPs registered to them, causing the effects listed above. Also note: This is mainly done for AOL and the like where the users don't have one IP and stick with it, but get a new one for every vandalism. 68.39.174.238 02:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're confusing issues here. AOL customers as a group are not currently and AFAIK never were blocked for any resonable length of time. However AOL customers usually go through a proxy which caused problems in trying to block vandals but the proxies were generally not blocked. But later though, AOL released their browser to the public whiche enabled people to use said proxies and so was effectively operating an open proxy (see here Wikipedia:AOL for details) and as such any addresses used by these open proxies were blocked in accordance with policy Wikipedia:No open proxies. This may have affected most of AOL's ISP customers although there were various ways IIRC to avoid using the open proxy for AOL customers. The actual AOL IP range used by AOL customers was AFAIK never blocked and so provided customers revealed their real IP rather then going through the open proxy, they were fine. Eventually, the problem was solved when AOL started to include a header which informed the wikimedia servers of the real IP of the person using the open proxy and therefore this problem was resolved. Certain ISPs or more likely, certain ranges within an ISP's range may have been blocked when there was excessive vandalism came from said range and there was no luck in convincing the ISP to help. I can't recall of any offhand though. Non ISP ranges or IPs like schools, libraries etc have definitely been blocked in some instances, sometimes on request of the network admin Nil Einne 13:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arzhaan & Zulkifil

what are origins and the meanings of words

Arzhaan (language of origin unknown) and Zulkifil( arabic word) in holY Quran (chapter of Prophets)

Check Wiktionary? 68.39.174.238 02:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dhul Kifil is apparently the prophet Ezekiel. Adam Bishop 07:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Determining the illegality of a drug

A while ago I asked a question " How come with some drugs (i.e. methamphetamine) society decides to outlaw their use instead of embracing them for their effects (such as employers for the work performance enhancement)?" and the gentleman who answered my question responded with the process in which society decides the pros and cons of a substance before outlawing it. Could someone please list that process again for me as I apparently forgot to sign it hence I can't retrieve it. Thank you-shredder0288

Try googling a particular phrase from the question or answer followed by "site:en.wikipedia.org" in the search field of Google. 68.39.174.238 02:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unknown coal/coke burning parlor stove

Awhile ago I purchased a parlor stove at a garage sale and for the life of my I cannot find any mention of the manufacturer any where on the web. What's cast into the front plate of the stove is this " Orbit Keystone No.22". The stove is about 4ft high. Any info will be helpful. Thank you-shredder0288

No idea if it's the same company, but Keystone Mfg. Co. of Pennsylvania still makes coalburning stoves [17]. Might write them with the info cast into the stove and a photo and ask for help dating it. Edison 22:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC) Edison 22:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1979 Chevrolet 1/2t 4wd "Chevy Sport" truck

Last question for today I promise you. I own a 1979 chevrolet 1/2 ton short bed 4 wheel drive truck. But it is a factory built special-order package truck with decals on the side saying " Chevy Sport " and I once again can't find any mention of the model other than the comparable one GMC made (sameyear) called the "Gentleman Jim" and the "Beau James". Any info would be great. Thanks-shredder0288

I don't have any info for you, but you might want to list the VIN on a site specializing in old Chevy trucks, and they may be able to help. StuRat 09:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Drifting

Is drifting an actual technique used by professional race car drivers in races? Will it help them turn faster? I know this would obviously depend on the race, so im referring to the kind of races where production road cars are modified and raced. Acceptable 21:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Generally speaking yes it is. However most cases a drift actually produces negative results, especially when cars that utilise latest technology on a tarmac circuit are involved. Usually the technolgy allows for a mechanical and aerodynamic grip sufficient to get you out of a corner in a much faster way than what you would do by throwing them away and start drifting. Professional drivers choose to drift only if the grip levels are very low, for example when racing on ice or gravel. --racergr 05:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you can find dirt-track racing on ESPN or Speed Channel, check it out. Gzuckier 17:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia policies regarding articles about laws

Does Wikipedia have any policies regarding articles about laws? I have created one such article about a Brazilian law proposal, but I intend to create articles about laws, and I'd like to know whether there are guidelines, templates and such things about that. Also, I'd like to learn how to determine the notability of a law. A.Z. 22:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to ask this question at the Help Desk. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. A.Z. 22:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here it is. A.Z. 22:45, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

hobbies

what's a good hobby other than vandalism — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.128.185 (talk • contribs) 22:32, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that vandalism is a hobby; it is not. You will find a list of reasonable and socially acceptable hobbies in Category:Hobbies, and linked from our article on hobbies. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:38, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism may have various motives but I can't believe that they never include those that would qualify it as a hobby under any reasonable definition. —Tamfang 06:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you're referring to Wiki(pedia) hobbies (other then vandalism), try hitting easily fixable backlogs, like Category:Uncategorized articles, or other things at WP:BACKLOG. Try researching for an Category:Unreferenced articles, etc. You'll eventually find something you like (Assuming that's your intent). 68.39.174.238 02:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

painters

who was the earliest documented pornographic painter — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.128.185 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's hard to say, and the answer will depend on your definition of 'pornography'. You may, however, find our article on the History of erotic depictions useful. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

car fuel consumption

Assume a car is driving in a straight line on a road. It is travelling along at an unknown speed at 8,000 RPM on second gear. Eventually the car accelerates to a higher unknown speed and is travelling at 8,000 RPM on fifth gear. Assume that this is the only variable and all other external factors remain the same for both speeds (including wind resistance), is the car consuming the same amount of fuel at those two different speeds, but identical engine speeds? Thanks. Acceptable 22:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you exclude ALL the frictional forces (including those from the gears, the bearings, the tyres, the wind etc) then yes the engine is consuming exactly the same amount of fuel but this is NEVER a real case. --racergr 05:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So actually, when the car is travelling at fifth gear at a higher speed, it's using more fuel right? Acceptable 16:43, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's using more fuel from an absolute standpoint, yes -- it's overcoming more wind resistance (which increases exponentially faster than speed, and so is probably the biggest consideration). The most fuel-efficient speed (meaning the most speed per gallon of fuel) is usually the lowest maintainable speed in the highest gear without lugging or stalling. This is of course limited to a thought experiment, though, because the only way to equalize wind resistance would be to race in an air-free environment, where an internal combustion engine wouldn't work. Deltopia 17:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you mean including internal car frictions, but excluding wind resistance; in second gear the throttle will have to much less open to deliver 8000 rpm than in fifth gear; this causes a lot of pumping loss that uses more fuel. One reason why cars are geared higher to deliver higher fuel economy. On the other hand, the transmission output, rear end, wheel bearings etc. will be spinning faster in fifth gear than second gear, and therefore have more friction. I think, but it's sort of just a guess, that the pumping losses are bigger, and therefore consume more fuel in second gear even though the speed is lower.Gzuckier 17:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the pumping loss is that much... The reason that switching to a higher gear increases fuel economy is because it runs at lower rpm to maintain the same speed to lower gears, reducing friction within the engine and therefore use less fuel. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Almost good football club

Who are the best football club never to play in the Premiership, or before 1992 the First Division? — Michael J 23:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thats a good question. What is the "best" football club is subjective, but an objective measure might be to ask which club has the best average performance in the English football league system without ever being promoted to the top division. Well, you can rule out all of the teams that have played in the Premiership, you can also rule out the teams that played in the old first division, when it was the top tier, but not the Premiership:

Accrington (the original, not today's Accrington Stanley), Blackpool, Bradford Park Avenue, Brentford, Brighton & Hove Albion, Bristol City, Burnley, Bury, Cardiff City, Carlisle United, Darwen, Glossop North End, Grimsby Town, Huddersfield Town, Leyton Orient, Luton Town, Millwall, Northampton Town, Notts County, Oxford United, Preston North End, Stoke City, and Swansea City.

I guess if you then go through the Seasons in English football and see who finished in the top few non-promotion spots in the second tier each season and order them by how many times they have done so. Remove any team noted above from that list, and the one left at the top is the winner! Good luck with that. Rockpocket 02:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't done a thorough analysis like I suggested above, but I think Hull City F.C. might be among the best contenders. They have spent a significant proportion of their early history in the the top half of the second tier, and their best ever finish is 3rd in the old second division - missing promotion on goal average by the tiny margin of 0.29 of a goal. Most of their modern history has been spend up and down between the 2rd and 3rd tiers. I reckon there can't be many clubs that can beat that record without ever having played at the top. Rockpocket 03:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with Rockpocket. From a slightly different angle, I have heard in various places (although I can't find any good citations at the moment, other than this and this) that Kingston upon Hull is in fact the largest city in England (or possibly Europe, depending on your source) whose football club has never played in their country's top division. (But maybe not!) Hassocks5489 07:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

July 23

Moth's legs stuck together

We just saved a hawk moth that got stuck in a web, but its legs are stuck together and we can't free it with a pin. It seems to be giving up the will to live - does anyone know how we can free it? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 00:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's no way to save it. The spider's toxins have already killed it, unless you just seen it hit that spider's webbing. As soon as a spider detects prey, it'll secure it, and poison it. 205.240.146.58 01:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See the spider article for more info. 205.240.146.58 01:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We rescued it before the spider ever got there. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 01:20, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just curious - Why? Saving the moth harms the spider...let nature do its thing. SteveBaker 13:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My mother had already saved it, and frankly, given I mentioned above that we have already rescued it, that is a both unhelpful and stupid answer to the question I posed. Why do you bother to hang around here? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I have to tend to agree with SteveBaker and there is no need to insult the man. Why interfere? It's just a moth. If the spider dies as a consequence of not getting a meal is that a better consequence? Perhaps saved as moths are closely related to butterflies and they enjoy some of their reputation, whereas spiders carry a more villianous popular cultural stigma? Moths can be regarded as pests, however spiders serve a useful function in regulation of insect populations. I however am a more equal opportunity bug squisher. Everything dies. Lanfear's Bane

Perhaps you were not listening in your arrogance, perhaps in your eagerness to berate me you missed the crucial fact for which I was berating SteveBaker for having ignored in HIS eagerness to be heartless. The moth had already been removed from the web. Should I just let a creature die because that's what would have happened had my mother not intefered? Fortunately for it, I am not cruel, and I did manage to unstick its legs. Please read questions before answering what you think was asked. The world has enough unkindnesses without your kneejerk malice too. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 15:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First you say 'we' removed it then you say it was your mother removed it and now it is a little hard to tell who 'saved' it. We were simply asking, why bother interfere in this natural process? I don't feel that is unreasonable to ask or that it warrants such an outburst when we simply enquired into the background decisions of your actions, we were not attacking your choice. Lanfear's Bane

I was actually, genuinely, curious as to what thinking went into doing that - perhaps our OP would be kind enough to ask his/her Mom? Thnx. SteveBaker 21:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I too would like to know what the OP's mother thought she was doing by rescuing the moth. In the absence of any such reply, however, perhaps I could attempt a response. Isn't it instinctive to want to help a creature in apparent distress, particularly (and here I think Lanfear's Bane is spot on) one with a relatively benign image like a moth? To be honest, I would probably have done the same thing. If I saw a moth struggling to free itself from a spider's web, I would be unlikely to weigh up the relative desirability of trying to free it versus leaving it there so that the spider could eat it. Spiders are voracious, and if this one didn't manage to scoff this particular moth, the likelihood is that it wouldn't have to wait long for its next meal. At least, that's how my thinking would go. Lanfear is right - there is undoubtedly a pecking order among human concern for the welfare of animals, based in part on their image and appearance (see, for example, baby seal cubs). This may be unfair to those animals with an image problem, but it is completely natural and understandable. So, Dev920, I urge you and your mother not to fret at the attacks of SteveBaker and Lanfear's Bane. You did the right thing. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 21:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree with the majority here, what's so special about a moth ? I suppose if it was an endangered species or something, it might be worth saving, but an ordinary moth ? They have such short life-spans it might have been due to die tonight anyway. Even a lepidopterist is most likely to save the moth from the spider only so they can mount it. That said, I would have offered advice on saving the moth, since that was the question, if I had any. Perhaps the original poster is a Jain, and so has a religious obligation to prevent harm from coming to any animal. StuRat 09:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry we couldn't answer your question in time, but glad you had a good result. Perhaps you might have had more success asking for help from lepidopterists at the Science Ref Desk. --Dweller 17:20, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, AshLin from Wikipedia:WikiProject_Lepidoptera here. Nice to know the moth is saved. Did your moth survive and fly off or did it die? Often, a spider scurries over and stings a prey and wanders off till its dead and then comes back later for further activities. Since you mentioned that the moth seemed to be dying, this spider's sting may have happened before you notice it. To revive a moth, there are so many types and so few examples to go bye, I guess all one can do is what you have done - release the moth from the clutches and allow it to recover. You could possibly offer it some sugar water, but more than that I cant think of anything else. Regards, AshLin 11:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

desiiiiiiiiiiiire (hot hot heat maybe)

there is a song and all I can understand of the lyrics is desiiiire said in a somewhat gay voice...the style resembles the band's hot hot heat kinda, it may be them... does anyone know which song is this?

it's like neo...something... kindof like lcd soundsystem...

Try the list of songs here. anonymous6494 02:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

thnx i'll check it out.

Used in House MD?? http://www.lyricwiki.org/Ryan_Adams:Desire. Lanfear's Bane

I need to learn fighting styles...

I need to learn fighting skills and techniques to increase my self-defense...to become awesome. So, is there a site where I could learn a lot of fighting styles and techniques?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.238.171.96 (talk • contribs)

Try Llap Goch, [18]. Adam Bishop 07:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Llap Goch?!?! I know what it is, of course (and it rated a spontaneous LOL, bordering on C|N>K, thank you very much), but: we have an article on it?!?! —Steve Summit (talk) 00:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You won't learn much from a website. If you don't live in Wales (or Lowestoft), try a local karate club.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Listen 70. you don't need to LEARN how to fight, it's all in your mind. I've been practicing TKD for 6 years now, and all the hard training, discipline, sore feet, hands and head mean nothing, all you have to do is BELIEVE! that you are the best fighter ever! go into your nearest dodgy Pub/Bar, tell your self :'As i walk the the valley of the shadow of death i will fear no evil for i am the meanest M**********r walking in the valley' go up to the hardest looking hombre you can find and tell him his mother 'does' sailors for fun, good luck tiger! Perry-mankster 08:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, Perry! That's surprisingly harsh, coming from you, if not an incitememt to commit an offense. Is there something happening here that I fail to understand? Bielle 14:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Use extreme care when it comes to martial arts! Find a good teacher; don’t try to teach yourself. Even practicing basic falls without training or proper safety equipment can get you seriously injured, or can injure whoever you’re working with. Personally I would suggest you find a good Aikido dojo. --S.dedalus 23:08, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer my martial arts instruction on video, that way I can fast forward past the part teaching the importance of patience. StuRat 09:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your quite right Bielle, that was too harsh. I was trying to get across the message that you can't learn from a site/book... whatever, that it takes years of hard work and even then you will never truly be awsome!sincerest apologies 70. i did not mean to bite and i should know better by now, please take dedalus's advice and personally i would recommend Tae Kwon Do as it has taught me much over the years grasshopper Perry-mankster 13:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Automobile engineering

What is the best school in this world for Automobile engineering?08:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)Ecclesiasticalparanoid

I may be biased, having attended the former General Motors Institute (now Kettering University), so I won't comment further. StuRat 09:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure where you would find independent ratings for such schools. Considering that Germany produces cars that are world-renowned for their engineering, it might help to speak German. BMW and Daimler's Mercedes division are concentrated in southern Germany. Probably the top university for engineering in that region is the Technical University of Munich, whose mechanical engineering department offers a concentration in automotive engineering. This would not be a bad place to start, if you can speak German. Marco polo 13:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Freezing Flowers

I have a wedding coming up in a week's time and would like to use some of my home-grown garden lilies which at the moment are open and spectacular - but I suspect will be past their best by next week. Is there a way I can pick some now and preserve them at their best for use on the day - maybe freezing perhaps? Thanks. 81.145.240.131 09:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am pretty sure freezing them will destroy them when you defrost them. Freezing causes the water in the flowers to expand and ice cystals form inside the flower's cells which puncture the cells outerwalls as the ice expands, destroying the flower internally. Lanfear's Bane

I have seen documentaries about gardening exhibitions (eg. the Chelsea Flower Show) where competitors deep-chilled plants and flowers before the events to keep them at their best - but I suspect they have years of experience and high quality refrigeration to get the right temperatures. DuncanHill 10:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep them in the lower shelf of the fridge--88.109.207.20 10:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, you want to get them as cold as possible WITHOUT freezing them - one or two degrees C would be good.

It's not just in competitions, refridgeration (not freezing) is used during transport for the cut flower industry in floristry. Of course, they I presume have a specialised equipement and have done sufficient experimentation that know exactly what conditions to use for maximum longevity. If your fridge is like mine and items stored at the back tend to get frozen, I would take care in how you store them Nil Einne 13:20, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ask your local florist shop. They would be likely to know how to preserve flowers of different kinds, and could maybe sell you some of the secret powder that they put int the water to preserve cut flowers. I agree with the above postings that you don't actually want to Freeze the flowers, but the optimum temperature may be 1 or 2 degrees C or it may be 5 to 10 degrees C. ---Czmtzc 14:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

and keep the cut end of the stems in water; don't let them freeze, and don't let them dry out. Gzuckier 17:46, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This weblink [19] has some suggestions which may be helpful. DuncanHill 17:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, avoid freezing them, but do refrigerate them and keep them in water. Dehydration will be a concern. I suggest you wrap them loosely in plastic wrap to limit this, and also cut the stems underwater to prevent introducing air bubbles into the stem, which would interfere with the capillary action used to pull water up to the flowers. Also use a preservative in the water, as mentioned above. This will give you the best chance, but still, a week is a long time to ask for fresh flowers to last, even under ideal conditions. For other flowers, like roses, I'd suggest removing the outer petals from each flower right before the wedding, to reveal the fresh petals underneath. However, with a lily, there aren't many "extra petals" to work with. StuRat 08:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pork Bones in Montreal

Hello,

Im trying to follow a recipe from an english_published cookbook on how to make good ramen noodle stock. The recipe calls for pork bones in order to boil along with chicken bones to make the stock. However, i have asked at a dozen butchers in montreal and none of them seem to want to sell them to me. Is there some sort of health regulation as to the selling of pork bones? Or should I try chinatown? thanks --Cacofonie 15:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Buy some pork on bones (ribs, probably). Use the pork meat to make something luscious (barbecue?). Use the pork bones to make your stock. One package of meat -> two meals.

Atlant 17:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Buy them from Asian supermarkets, they should have some. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Albin Countergambit

I am highly interested in this line of response to the Queen's gambit. The article on this countergambit doesn't seem to give too much information about how to respond to 5. Nbd2 (though it mentions it as one of the main lines). Any pointers for playing this line? John Riemann Soong 16:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm no good at chess, but you can browse a database of continuations here: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=1727782 —Keenan Pepper 18:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just an amateur myself, but let me give it a try. As black, I would be tempted to respond to Nd2 with Bb4, thus pinning the white knight with my bishop. The obvious response to this from white would be Qa4, which both checks me and threatens my bishop. My response would then be Nc6, thus blocking the check and simultaneously protecting the bishop. I would favor this line of action as it allows me to develop both a bishop and knight, and draws the opponent's queen out, hopefully prematurely. StuRat 08:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

High revving cars

Which production cars (or engines) operate at the highest RPMs? Recury 17:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The honda v-tech engine revs very higher, something around 8,500/9,000 RPM I think. A quick google search suggest the Honda S600 is the highest RPM production car. ny156uk 18:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

VTEC is the article. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you can source this, it should be added to List of automotive superlatives - which doesn't have a category for highest revving. SteveBaker 21:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For current cars I think the Mazda RX-8 has the highest RPM at 9500rpm, though that's the "effective" rpm since it's a Wankel engine. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yamaha Jog RR LC

I need help!!!

Does anyone kwnow how to disassemble a Yamaha Jog RR LC clutch?? Is there a locking mechenism on the bolt to remove the clutch??

I need to know as I nedd to put in a new drive belt as the old one snapped!

Thanks for any help.

Joel

sleeping pills?

What do they do?

Avoiding the obvious answer...(they help you to sleep)...the article on Hypnotics lists a bunch of specific drugs that have this effect - I suggest you read the linked articles for each one because they don't all work in the same way. SteveBaker 21:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1) They help you to fall asleep.

2) They help you to remain asleep for a suitable length of time. StuRat 08:17, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

my wikipedia

why is my wikipedia slow? when I look at the reference desk, questions arent updated. When I use a different computer, I can read up-to-date questions, but not on my own computer.

Try purging the cache, which is basically a stored version of the page in your hard drive, so it won't have to reload it again. I believe it's CTRL+F5. Once you purge the cache it will reload the page with its updated changes. --71.98.4.68 00:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "fag voice"

Why do a lot of gay men talk really highpitched like a woman but more fruity. And is that genetic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.130.93 (talk • contribs) 23:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know any that do? I don't. You can't confuse the Hollywood stereotype caricature with real people; not everyone is worthy of Will and Grace. A lot of gay men have perfectly normal voices, clothing, and habits outside of the realm of dating. Kuronue 23:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know some who do and some who dont. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.130.93 (talk • contribs) 23:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to have a look at LGBT stereotypes and bear in mind on the subject of stereotypes that "some people consider all stereotypes to be negative. Stereotypes are rarely completely accurate, based on some kernel of truth, or completely fabricated." People may also be insulted by some of the terms you used in phrasing your question. As for it being genetic, this is unlikely, two homosexual men are unable to produce offspring and therefore unable to pass on genetic material. In some cases a female-like tone may even be affected. Lanfear's Bane

Actually Kuronue makes a good point when refering to Will and Grace, Will and Jack are both very different characters. Do however remember it is a television show and that "All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.". Lanfear's Bane

(after several ec's)

I'm going to answer this question seriously, based on the sincere intent in which it might have been intended, because it's one I've wondered about, too. It's true, many (though certainly not all) gay men do talk in some variety of the stereotyped way: a little higher pitched, a little singsong, a little lispy. And I used to wonder why they did that, as if they didn't realize how obvious it sounded.

But there was a fallacy in my question, namely the supposition that being (or sounding) gay was something to hide or be ashamed of. But of course it's not, or needn't be. And if you're gay, and comfortable, and "out", why not sound like you are? As someone eventually explained to me, sounding gay is a form of self-expression and self-identification. It's no different from sounding black, or sounding (pompously) educated, or sounding sexy, or sounding RP, or sounding like whatever group of people you identify with sounds like. —Steve Summit (talk) 00:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

[P.S. No, it's not genetic. Very few aspects of our speech are genetic; most of them are learned.]

I dont watch will and grace and i dont know who jack is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.130.93 (talk • contribs) 23:58, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this was a serious question, but there is some serious information in our Gay lisp article. --Lambiam 00:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(after edit conflict) While some do, some don't. My own experience is that a certain subpopulation of gay men do indeed have a unique tone of voice and style of delivery. There is some research to support this ("...Listeners correctly identified the sexual orientation of these speakers at a rate of 79.6%. Multiple regression analysis revealed that gay judgments were significantly associated with higher peak /s/ frequency values and longer /s/ duration values. Acoustic cues associated with perceived sexual orientation generally agreed with acoustic findings as a function of actual sexual orientation. While these results must be interpreted cautiously, findings suggest that members of the community of openly gay men demonstrate certain speech characteristics that are discernible to listeners." [20], see also [21]).

As far as I know there is no research to support a genetic or physiological basis for this phenomenon (though it cannot be ruled out). I suspect that the gay lisp and other speech traits are adopted – probably subconsciously – by gay men in order to openly indicate their sexual orientation (to advertise their availability, to identify with a community, and/or to forestall heterosexual advances). Style of speech is one of the key indicators for gaydar. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 00:15, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This has been addressed previously, see Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2007 January 3#Homosexual High Pitched Voice. Rockpocket 06:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to address a mistaken assumption that homosexual characteristics can't possible be inherited. This is not necessarily true. In the case of gay men, many of them have biological children. This can happen in many ways:

1) They may be "in the closet", and may marry and/or have children as part of the pretense.

2) They may have a heterosexual period (during which they father children) and a homosexual period in their life.

3) They may be bisexual.

4) They may father children by in vitro fertilization using a surrogate mother.

5) They may contribute to a sperm bank.

That said, I have no evidence that the gay lisp is inherited, but this possibility should not be rejected out of hand. Differences in hormone levels, such as testosterone and estrogen, could be both inherited and effect the voice, for example. StuRat 08:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, you are right, I should have said "two homosexual men are unable to produce natural offspring together". Do we have any evidence to back up any genetic transference of such a gene? Does a gene for a 'homosexual voice' provide any genetic advantage? Would there be enough incidences of the above to propagate a 'homosexual voice' would this also be accompanied by a 'homosexual gene'? I admit it is not impossible, however it seems improbable. Lanfear's Bane

Another point to be born in mind when considering a genetic component for sexual orientation is that there is unlikely to be a single gene which defines a person's sexuality. Rather, a combination of several genes whose effects interact in a particular way. DuncanHill 09:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But the original question was not about whether sexual orientation is inherited. It was whether there is a genetic component to the gay lisp accent. The overwhelming evidence is that all accents are almost entirely learnt (consciously or sub-consciously) and have little or no genetic component. As out article on accents says: Children are able to take on accents at a fast rate; children of traveling families, for example, can change their accents within a short period of time. This generally remains true until a person's early twenties, after which, a person's accent seems to become more entrenched.. Gandalf61 11:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Even granted the assumption (in this case, a faulty one) that trait "n" causes its bearer not to reproduce, it doesn't follow that "n" cannot be genetic: plenty of diseases which are fatal in early childhood are inherited genetically. Not everything we inherit is taken in identical form from our parents: there are such things as recessive genes, for example. Marnanel 11:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In my limited experience, I think they can put on a normal voice or a camp voice as it suits them. Fore example Mr.Humphreys in Are you being served?--GlazedBeaver 14:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. In my experience, with certain of my friends (mostly my gay friends), we talk in stereotypical "gay voices" but we know it. We do it consciously, as a joke. Anyone listening would think that we were conforming to stereotypes, and we are, in a sense, but because we don't care - we think it's funny. We're parodying ourselves - it's kind of like what Steve Summit said. Since we're all gay (and out), why not pretend to be really over the top and poke fun at all the stereotypes. We also do the "gay walk", etc. I don't know anyone who does it "unconsciously", so to speak. So if that helps... СПУТНИК^{CCC P} 14:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

July 24

Translation problem: Is "patron" the right word?

How do you call a person who watches over you and helps you, in a certain system? For example a 2nd years student who keeps an eye on a 1st years student? In Dutch it is a "patroon", but is patron the correct name in English? I read the patron-article but I am still not sure. SietskeEN 01:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the word you are looking for is mentor? --Duomillia 01:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The English word patron usually indicates financial support. Duomillia is right that mentor is a better word for someone who provides guidance and developmental support. Marco polo 02:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the advice, it is the one I need! SietskeEN 12:31, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Political Elections

What would happen if an election's votes were totaled and the candidate with the most votes only had one more vote than the candidate with the secondmost votes? Would something special happen, or would the candidate with the most votes win?

One vote is enough; but in these litigious times the loser would almost certainly insist on a recount. —Tamfang 06:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note that in some electoral systems, a person can have more popular votes than the opposition but still lose to them in a electoral college. See, for example, United States presidential election, 2000, 1876 and 1888. See also List of close elections. Rockpocket 06:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In some districts, if the election results are close within a certain threshold, an automatic recount is triggered. StuRat 08:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1%, or 0.5% are common thresholds in the United States. The key advantage to the losing candidate in that case is that they don't need to pay for the recount when the margin of votes is within the threshold value.

Atlant 11:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But once all the recounts and legal maneuvers are done, if the margin is still one vote, then the winner is the person with one vote more. The end. — Michael J 17:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Buzz magazine (Los Angeles)

I am looking for an article published in Buzz Magazine (Los Angeles):

Silent Scream by Carol Lynn Mithers August, 1994

The magazine appears to be defunct and I have no idea how I might be able to get a copy of the August 1994 edition.

I'm also wondering what copyright status such an article might have and how can one possibly get permission to reproduce such an article in full (not in Wikipedia) if the magazine is defunct.

Any suggestions would be most welcome. GrahameKing 02:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Getting permission to reproduce material can be difficult even from extant publishers. This is partly inefficiency, but it often involves uncertainty as to exactly who the copyright holder is, especially if the original publisher has been taken over or gone out of business. You may find that copyright reverts to the author. In the UK, it's usually OK to reproduce material without permission as long as you can show that you made reasonable efforts to secure permission and are prepared to make payment in retrospect. I would expect there to be a similar concession in the US.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ms Mithers is (or has been) represented by the agency "Kim from LA", website here [22] - they should be able to contact Ms Mithers about reproduction rights for her work. DuncanHill 11:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Identifying the watch in this picture?

What watch is Larry Ellison wearing in this picture: [23] ?

(p.s. It'll be interestng to see how well the answers match up, since, because the picture isn't all that clear, there's a chance it's a bit of a Rorschach test - that the question just reveals which brand people here, at least those enthusiastic enough to answer, like to follow. With info from the user pages, you could learn quite a bit about the market if you watch which watch which watch watchers watch.)

-84.0.159.27 03:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

citizen operated radio stations.

I remember reading a couple of years a go that the FCC was giving licenses to radio stations that anybody could put on the air as long as the signal was limited. Like a few neighborhoods or something. Does anybody have the correct nomenclature of what I'm talking about, and how to get more information?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Odell38 (talk • contribs)

See here. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 05:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who owns the Federal Reserve Bank of New York

I am trying to find out who owns the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.213.54.254 (talk • contribs) 03:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

It's complicated. Legally, the bank is owned by it's stockholders, who are the commercial banks which draw on the reserve. However, that's really just a legal formality -- their stock pays a fixed dividend, is non-transferable, and cannot be sold without approval. Congress has ultimate control over the Reserve system, but do not exercise direct control over the operations of the banks themselves. So, if you're looking for a hyper-technical answer, banks. If you're looking for a more realistic answer, you'd say it's owned and run by agents of the US government, appointed by, and oversee by, Congress. --Haemo 04:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

calibrate an oven

How do you recalibrate an oven? The only two knobs is 'bake' and 'temperature'. The temperatures inside don't match the one on the dial —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.162.145.195 (talk • contribs) 04:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Put stickers over the dial and write your own temperatures on it? Capuchin 06:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since you seemingly know the real temperature inside the oven, then Capuchin's suggestion is the least expensive remedy. - hydnjo talk 07:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you pull off the knob that operates the oven's thermostat, you may find that either:

There is an adjustment screw down inside the shaft on which the knob sits, or
The knob itself is adjustable.

Some thermostats may also offer an adjustment screw somewhere else.

As you consider all this, please recognize that some ovens don't distribute heat very uniformly so deciding which part of the oven should match the dial temperature can be tricky. Perhaps the center of your most-commonly-used shelf position?

Atlant 11:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

crime investigation

Can u tell me where I can find articlesd or instructional notes on Cartographic sketch or in a police parlance, the conduct of "portrait Parley" and/or picture sketch?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Apollo m bacas (talk • contribs) 08:17, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Villages and Boroughs

Could you explain in the simplist terms possible what a village and what a borough is i sought of understood the former when about divisons in new york state.I guess it`s like a borough of nyc with it`s own government.But i Would if you could explain what a borough is when i read about it on the thing about muncipalities in new jersey. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bochco69 (talk • contribs) 08:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IIRC, a "borough" in New Jersey is an independent local government entity, subservient to a county and governed by a Town Council and a Mayor. As you've observed, a borough of New York City is quite a different thing. NYC's boroughs seem to represent vestiges of the independent governments that agglomerated to form NYC.

Atlant 11:45, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We actually have a thorough explanation of the powers and nature of incorporated villages in New York. We also have an explanation of the boroughs of New York City. We also have a complete article on New Jersey boroughs. Marco polo 13:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About M.I.T

Does M.I.T offer graduate course in Automobile engineering? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.2.51 (talk • contribs) 09:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look here. I couldn't see anything about automobiles on a quick glance, but check for yourself. You could have found that for yourself really easily, btw. Intellectual curiosity is a key skill at graduate (and undergraduate, for that matter) level. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 09:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Depends what you mean by "course" It's not a real well defined "major", although plenty of individual courses in things like internal combustion engines exist. If you wanted to specialize in automotive engineering, you'd be in the mechanical engineering department, most likely, and find some topic like "flame front speed as a function of combustion chamber design" or such for your thesis. You wouldn't be designing a neat car, or something fun like that. Although plenty of students do such things in their spare time, entering solar powered races etc. Or just going racing in SCCA or something. (boring story: when i was an undergrad, an alumnus came to speak about his life as an engineer at Ford since graduating. he told us he got to work on the original Mustang. we were all impressed. then he told us, his job was designing the door handle. that's the way it goes in big corporate engineering.) Gzuckier 14:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

picture insertion

How can I insert a picture in a question I ask on wikipedia reference desk?--218.248.2.51 09:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)Ecclesiasticalparanoid[reply]

If the name of your picture was, for example, "Hassocks Station.png", you would use all or some of this code:

[[Image:Hassocks Station.png|thumb|200px|right|My local station!]]

Square brackets enclose the image.
The image title, preceded by "Image:", is compulsory.
"thumb" makes it into a thumbnail, clickable to enlarge.
"200px" controls the size of the thumbnail.
"right", "center" and "left" control the alignment.
The last bit is the text you want to appear beneath the thumbnail, if any.

I have inserted the image using this code to show what it looks like. Hope that helps! (And yes, the weather was a bit nasty on the day I took that pic. Time for a new version in the sunshine, perhaps...) Hassocks5489 11:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...but it's better not to specify the size of the thumbnail. From Wikipedia:Manual of Style#images:

"Specifying the size of a thumb image is not recommended: without specifying a size the width will be what readers have specified in their user preferences"

--HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 11:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's a point. Any of the four attributes after the image name are optional. If you use "thumb" and no size, it will default to the "correct" size for everybody's browser, as Hugh says. Hassocks5489 11:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To upload the picture, click on the "Upload file" menu item from any Wikipedia page.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

cheers

How can I maintain a constant cheerful look in my face and yet dont look like a clown? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.2.51 (talk • contribs) 10:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Smile while not using facepaint and not wearing a 'clown suit'? You might want to look at the article on clowns to find any other characteristics particular to clowns you may wish to avoid. Lanfear's Bane

Maintain a positive internal mental attitude? And when necessary, think of love and/or sex ;-).

Atlant 11:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Netherlands Coastline

How long is the Netherlands Coastline? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.83.26 (talk • contribs) 11:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The country has a total area of 41,526 square kilometers (16,485 square miles). This includes 33,889 square kilometers of land (13,084 square miles) and 7,643 square kilometers (2,950 square miles) of water. The coastline of the Netherlands is 451 kilometers (280 miles) long. Its land borders are 1,027 kilometers (638 miles) in length. According to this site [24]. Lanfear's Bane

All coastlines are infinite. And it depends what you define as the coastline, especially in the Netherlands.

Sponsor of a warship

What does the sponsor of a warship actually do? DuncanHill 11:52, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would assume they pay towards the cost of building and supplying the ship.

Um, my fault for not making the question clearer. In many articles about warships, reference is made to the sponsor. They appear to be predominantly female and often royalty, civic dignitaries (eg Lords Lieutenant), or relicts of notable sailors. Sometimes they perform the naming ceremony. DuncanHill 16:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have the answer right there, they perform the naming ceremony, christen it with a bottle of champagne when launched, etc. In other words, it's a purely symbolic role. StuRat 19:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

War and Peace

How many pages are there in War and Peace? --124.181.112.206 12:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That depends on how big the paper is, and how big the letters are! Do you have a specific edition in mind? Marnanel 12:32, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(after edit conflict) That depends on the edition of the book. This edition has 1424 pages. Different editions have different amounts of pages based on the size of the pages and the size font that is used. Dismas|^(talk) 12:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Too many.

Atlant 17:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"time and strike" clock

What does the term "time and strike" mean in relation to a clock--I.e. a "time and strike" clock?

Thanks!

It counts the hour and strikes the half- (or quarter-) hours. eg at 4 o'clock, it goes boing, boing, boing, boing and at half past 4 it goes 'boing'.Clocks which strike the quarter hour may do one boing for each quarter, eg at a quarter-to they go boing, boing, boing. Some clocks wll have a different pitch of boing for the hour and for the half- or quarter- hour. Ships' clocks are sometimes strike-only - they jusy strike the number of bells (for watch-keeping), without having a display. DuncanHill 15:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Another example of the above that's rather common: my school has a clock that rings the, ah... clock bell song (no idea what it's called, but almost every large clock plays it), so at 4 it'd do "DOO-doo-Doo-doo... doo-doo-DOO-doo...DOO-doo-Doo-doo... doo-doo-DOO-dooo... bong, bong, bong, bong". But at four fifteen it goes: "Doo-doo-doo-doo", the first four notes. Then at 4:30 it goes "Doo-doo-doo-doo...doo-doo-DOO-doo...", and then at 4:45 it goes "DOO-doo-Doo-doo... doo-doo-DOO-dooo... DOO-doo-Doo-doo.." and then at 5 it plays the entire song with 5 bongs at the end. ....I'm not crazy, really! Kuronue 15:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Clock Bell Song is probably the Westminster Chimes. You're not crazy. DuncanHill 15:17, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Moderately skilled depression-proof trade

What skilled trades or crafts can be learned fairly quickly? In particular, I want to find a trade that 1) pays a living wage even if it is not lucrative, 2) requires enough training that unemployed people cannot learn it easily on their own, 3) does not require more than a year or two of training, 4) does not require youth or physical strength, and 5) is likely to enjoy steady demand during an economic depression. Thank you! Marco polo 14:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would advise to become a plumber or electrician. SietskeEN 15:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I too would suggest plumbing or electrical installation/repair. Undertakers are also always needed, and while youthful strength can be an assset, maturity is highly appreciated by the families of your clients. DuncanHill 15:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that I don't have the stomach for undertaking. Working as an electrician has some appeal, but it seems to require at least a 4-year apprenticeship. What about shoe repair? Would that be quicker to learn? Marco polo 16:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you really expect there would be a big shoe repair market in the case of a depression? -Czmtzc 18:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In a depression, people might be more inclined to have their shoes repaired, rather than throwing them away and buying a new pair. DuncanHill 18:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe in the 1930s, but shoe repair is very much a dying trade in the western world today, and even if there were a depression it's unlikely to seriously revive.--Pharos 18:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(post edit conflict) I speak now for North America, but shoes are so inexpensive, relatively speaking, that the only ones that get repaired are the very-high end of the market, and this is mostly for men's shoe brands like David or Church or even Florsheim. (I don't know who would risk repairing women's high fashion shoes as they look as if they would dissolve in rain water.) I would also not go into appliance repair. A personal experience lately had a retailer replace an 8-month-old microwave oven with one still in its factory box rather than even look for the fault; the cost of labour is just too high relative to the cost of the product, new. However, everyone is always looking for a plumber or an electrician or even a "jack/jill of all trades", if you are naturally handy, sober -during work hours, anyway- and prepared to work hard. In my area, these trades ask for, and get, from $50 to $100 per hour, with a 3-hour minimum call. Bielle 18:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Synonym of "potential"

[Moved to the Science Reference Desk.]

Dishonesty

Why does it seem that when a man is in any kind of relationship, they lie (almost about everything) even when they don't have to? Is it a testosterone thing? --WonderFran 15:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds to me as though there is something wrong with your perception in this matter. You're probably best placed to answer your own question. Or else you've had a string of poor experiences, from which you're drawing a false and insulting conclusion. --Tagishsimon (talk)

It is natural in the early stages of a romantic relationship to "put one's best foot forward", for both men and women. This can be interpreted as lying, I suppose. Is a woman who puts on makeup, dyes her hair, and wears false eyelashes and nails lying about how she really looks ? How about a woman who claims to be younger than she is, or fails to mention that she has kids from a previous relationship, or calls herself a "legal secretary" when she is really a receptionist at a law firm ? At what point does it cross the line ? Picture how absolute honesty from a man would sound "No, I don't love you, but I would like to have sex with you until someone better comes along". Do women really want to hear that from their man ? StuRat 19:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because men are humans, and all humans lie, to varying degrees. That said, most people are usually reasonably trustworthy as long as you don't put them in social situations that almost demand a lie, so if you have experienced numerous serious breaches of trust, you should look for the common factor and avoid it in the future. --TotoBaggins 19:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

what is the meaning of "pan's out"

I've heard the expression

I hope it pans out

What does it mean?

Judy Leonard xxxx@xxxxxxxxxxx.net

I hope everything works out for the best. -- _{Escape Artist Swyer} ^{Talk to me} _{Articles touched by my noodly appendage} 15:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wiktionary deals with this word well - see [25]. No apostrophe required. --Tagishsimon (talk)

I don't see pan(s) out on that page. —Tamfang 18:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to come from panning for gold = taking sand from a river bed and swirling it in a pan so that the lighter sand washes out leaving the heavier gold dust. I don't know how the phrase was originally used, i.e. what the subject was, but the meaning is that the panning was successful in finding gold. —Tamfang 18:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tamfang, "pan(s)out" is under Verb 2. Intransitive under the Tagishsimon link, above. Bielle 18:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dead Body

What's the best way to dispose of a dead human body? I suppose one could cook the fleshy parts and feed them to unsuspecting people. That would solve part of the "rotting flesh stinks" problem... how much of a human body is edible, by the way? -- _{Escape Artist Swyer} ^{Talk to me} _{Articles touched by my noodly appendage} 15:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a question of debate; there is no best way, and certainly not without a knowledge of the criteria by which best (or even good) could be distinguished from bad and worst. The reference desk is not a good nor appropriate place for such a question, IMO. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Disolve it in acid and throw what's left in the ocean.

Just remember, "the secret's in the sauce!".

Atlant 17:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Conveniently, we have an article all about the Disposal of human corpses. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Am I the only one here who is greatly disturbed by this question? --PolarWolf 18:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well we're all going to be disposed of one day. I always thought a sky burial to be the most ecological and efficient, but that method is not approved of in the west. Burial has various other ideas.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of recent movies suggested feeding the body to pigs. Corvus cornix 19:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Smoking Marijuana

Would smoking a small amount (1g or less) of marijuana from a bong every 3 month have a sizable impact (physically and mentally) on a healthy and physically active teenager? Acceptable 19:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The proponents of the Drug War would have you believe the answer is yes. Everybody else knows the answer is no. --TotoBaggins 19:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, we're not allowed to give medical advice here. SteveBaker 19:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cricket test match in 1951

who was playing the match against England in either very late february or very early March 1951, and who won, and what was the score please? 81.157.196.127 19:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For some odd reason, Wikipedias test match coverage is alarmingly good all the way to 1939 - then abruptly ends. However, the game you are thinking of is the Fifth test vs Australia in Feb '51 - England won by 8 wickets - details are here [26]. SteveBaker 19:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Filling out own death certificate?

Has a doctor ever been known to fill out his own death certificate (for example, if (s)he was about to commit suicide, or if (s)he got into an accident and was bleeding to death)?

Denis Kucincih

To all female users do you Denis Kucinich sexually attractive.

@@ Line 1,001: / Line 1,001: @@
 Has a doctor ever been known to fill out his own death certificate (for example, if (s)he was about to commit suicide, or if (s)he got into an accident and was bleeding to death)?
+== Denis Kucincih  ==
+To all female users do you [[Denis Kucinich]] sexually attractive.