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Suggestion

There may be trains of thought in the Opposing Discussion link which might be worthy of integrating into this unbalanced article. For example, his views on innocence conflict with the book Actual Innocence, the many law school innocence projects it spawned, and generic decision error. His salary was cut (for what reason?) but he campaigned for it to be restored, lost, but eventually it was restored anyway. His website claims a DA's worst nightmare is to convict an innocent yet he didn't lift a finger to reverse the conviction of innocent Thomas Michael Kelly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.139.213.230 (talk) 18:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would be happy to work with anyone to bring a broader perspective to this article. Unfortunately the link you added is not something Wikipedia regards as a reliable source, so we'll need to do a little more research. I know that Marquis has argued strongly for increased DA salaries in Oregon in general, but I don't think there's anything specific to his own salary as distinct from all Oregon DAs. I could be wrong, though. -Pete (talk) 19:57, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Kelly is a convicted rapist (http://www.dailyastorian.com/Main.asp?SectionID=2&ArticleID=51711) whose supporters are angry he was prosecuted and sent to prison.

The discussion about DA pay was mainly state-wide (http://www.blueoregon.com/2006/11/are_salaries_fo.html and http://joshmarquis.blogspot.com/2006/11/pornography-of-pay.html) This is distinct from a controversy in which the DA's pay was cut after his wife ran against the County Commission Chair, Richard Lee. The DA's county pay was abruptly ended and a controversy ensued in which Lee was recalled. Within a month the remaining Commissioners restored the DA's pay a month after Lee was recalled (http://www.dailyastorian.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=50097&SectionID=23&SubSectionID=392&S=1)Coastda (talk) 04:56, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Thomas Kelly: Unless someone is sincerely proposing that we add specifics about this case to this biography, let's not use Wikipedia to discuss it. (I do not have subscriber access to the Astorian, so unfortunately I'm not able to read about the case. Unless this is one of the more notable events in Mr. Marquis' career, generating multiple news articles in multiple publications, my sense would be that this is not something this article needs to cover.) Wikipedia discussion pages are reserved for talk about the content of the article; so if it doesn't directly relate, let's let it rest, or find other web sites on which to discuss.

Coastda, thank you for the background on DA pay, that is very helpful background. Not sure whether this belongs in the biography either, but it seems potentially worthy of inclusion.

Finally Coastda, would you mind revealing who you are, or what your relationship to Josh Marquis is? You are of course under no obligation to do so, but Wikipedia has fairly exacting standards on how people closely associated with an article's subject should approach editing, and it would make things smoother if we knew. Your user name and your focus on this article will likely raise some eyebrows. However, I appreciate your approach to editing, and your engaging in the discussion here on the talk page; I do not personally feel there is cause for concern. So, it would be helpful and would go a long way toward allaying any future concerns if you care to disclose this information. But this is merely a request, not a requirement. -Pete (talk) 06:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Coastda IS Josh Marquis. Its the screen name I use everywhere....e-mail, webpage. I thought it was evident, but if not I am happpy to confirm it. I am vigilant about edits to a page that concerns me because a quick google search will show that that there is a small but very vitriolic group of people who intensely dislike me. Coastda (talk) 16:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for clarifying, and sorry if I was overlooking the obvious. I have run into trouble making assumptions on this in the past, and prefer to err on the side of caution. -Pete (talk) 03:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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 == Suggestion ==
-There may be trains of thought in the Opposing Discussion link http://driedsalmon.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=discussion2 which might be worthy of integrating into this unbalanced article.  For example, his views on innocence conflict with the book Actual Innocence, the many law school innocence projects it spawned, and generic decision error.  His salary was cut (for what reason?) but he campaigned for it to be restored, lost, but eventually it was restored anyway.  His website claims a DA's worst nightmare is to convict an innocent yet he didn't lift a finger to reverse the conviction of innocent Thomas Michael Kelly.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.139.213.230|75.139.213.230]] ([[User talk:75.139.213.230|talk]]) 18:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+There may be trains of thought in the Opposing Discussion link which might be worthy of integrating into this unbalanced article.  For example, his views on innocence conflict with the book Actual Innocence, the many law school innocence projects it spawned, and generic decision error.  His salary was cut (for what reason?) but he campaigned for it to be restored, lost, but eventually it was restored anyway.  His website claims a DA's worst nightmare is to convict an innocent yet he didn't lift a finger to reverse the conviction of innocent Thomas Michael Kelly.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.139.213.230|75.139.213.230]] ([[User talk:75.139.213.230|talk]]) 18:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 : I would be happy to work with anyone to bring a broader perspective to this article. Unfortunately the link you added is not something Wikipedia regards as a [[WP:RS|reliable source]], so we'll need to do a little more research. I know that Marquis has argued strongly for increased DA salaries in Oregon in general, but I don't think there's anything specific to ''his own'' salary as distinct from all Oregon DAs. I could be wrong, though. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 19:57, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
+Mr. Kelly is a convicted rapist (http://www.dailyastorian.com/Main.asp?SectionID=2&ArticleID=51711) whose supporters are angry he was prosecuted and sent to prison.
-:: And so wrong you are.  If you can search the Daily Astorian as below and believe it, why do you have difficulty finding out about Marquis' campaign and election for his own salary?  Also your decision to not include the link for opposing discussion is your own personal bias, not clearly supported by Wikipedia at the link you provided - unless you have the same freedom from TRUTH Josh abuses professionally.  It is a reliable source of what it claimed to be, opposing discussion.  You could change it to Opposing Opinions.
-Mr. Kelly is a convicted rapist (http://www.dailyastorian.com/Main.asp?SectionID=2&ArticleID=51711) whose supporters are angry he was unjustly prosecuted and sent to prison.
-: 20%-30% of all people in prison are actually innocent.  See the book Actual Innocence and all the Innocence Projects it spawned in law schools across the nation.  This figure exactly matches the figures for generic decision error in decisions made with 90% confidence.  See Harvard Business Review, June 2001.  Therefore it is not just possible but probable about 1 in 4 of Marquis' and his staff's prosecustions are against people who are actually innocent.  Further, it should be noted http://accused.com has a video claiming %60 of sex abuse cases result in wrong convictions.  I bet you won't care to include those reliable facts which should be mentioned on every DA's page.
 The discussion about DA pay was mainly state-wide (http://www.blueoregon.com/2006/11/are_salaries_fo.html and http://joshmarquis.blogspot.com/2006/11/pornography-of-pay.html) This is distinct from a controversy in which the DA's pay was cut after his wife ran against the County Commission Chair, Richard Lee. The DA's county pay was abruptly ended and a controversy ensued in which Lee was recalled. Within a month the remaining Commissioners restored the DA's pay a month after Lee was recalled (http://www.dailyastorian.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=50097&SectionID=23&SubSectionID=392&S=1)[[User:Coastda|Coastda]] ([[User talk:Coastda|talk]]) 04:56, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
+: Regarding Thomas Kelly: Unless someone is sincerely proposing that we add specifics about this case to this biography, let's not use Wikipedia to discuss it. (I do not have subscriber access to the Astorian, so unfortunately I'm not able to read about the case. Unless this is one of the more notable events in Mr. Marquis' career, generating multiple news articles in multiple publications, my sense would be that this is not something this article needs to cover.) Wikipedia discussion pages are reserved for talk about the content of the article; so if it doesn't directly relate, let's let it rest, or find other web sites on which to discuss.
-: So you did find out something about Marquis' salary.  What about the related election?  If you can't pay the fee to access the Daily Astorian's archives, why not just phone the newly elected leader of the Oregon House Judiciary Committee, Jeff Barker home phone (503) 649-1767 or after the legislature starts in January use Salem office (503) 986-1428. Or if he's not authoritative enough for you, look at the Clatsop County Elections website for the Nov. 6, 2007 special election http://www.co.clatsop.or.us/Assets/Dept_2/PDF/11-6-07%20FINAL%20OFFICIAL.pdf where you can see MEASURE 4-123 SUPPLEMENTARY COMPENSATION FOR D.A. lost by a narrow margin.
-Regarding Thomas Kelly: Unless someone is sincerely proposing that we add specifics about this case to this biography, let's not use Wikipedia to discuss it. (I do not have subscriber access to the Astorian, so unfortunately I'm not able to read about the case. Unless this is one of the more notable events in Mr. Marquis' career, generating multiple news articles in multiple publications, my sense would be that this is not something this article needs to cover.) Wikipedia discussion pages are reserved for talk about the content of the article; so if it doesn't directly relate, let's let it rest, or find other web sites on which to discuss.
-: The fact Marquis lies in his own blog / website about convicting innocents being a DA's worst nightmare is worth mentioning whether supported by an actual case or not.  The fact that Marquis both on his website and national press disputes the Actual Innocence figures on the rate of imprisoning innocents is clearly worth documenting here. The fact that you are suggesting the Daily Astorian in general and single sided DA brown-nosing reporter Joe Gamm in particular is more reliable than this link http://driedsalmon.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=discussion2 should be noted to show readers your falsely supported bias.
-Coastda, thank you for the background on DA pay, that is very helpful background. Not sure whether this belongs in the biography either, but it seems potentially worthy of inclusion.
-:: CoastDA@aol.com is the published private email address of Joshua Marquis which you could find out if you read his website.  If you have heard directly from him, you have to decide if you think his statements are reliable.  I suggest considering his facts might be true but he likely didn't include all relevent facts constituting the whole truth and nothing but the truth -- his interpretations of his filtered facts and decisions thereon are probably not true, based more on political desire to make him and his profession look good than TRUTH which is not legally required in his profession nor for judges in Oregon law.
+: Coastda, thank you for the background on DA pay, that is very helpful background. Not sure whether this belongs in the biography either, but it seems potentially worthy of inclusion.
-Finally Coastda, would you mind revealing who you are, or what your relationship to Josh Marquis is? You are of course under no obligation to do so, but Wikipedia has [[WP:COI|fairly exacting standards]] on how people closely associated with an article's subject should approach editing, and it would make things smoother if we knew. Your user name and your focus on this article will likely raise some eyebrows. However, I appreciate your approach to editing, and your engaging in the discussion here on the talk page; I do not personally feel there is cause for concern. So, it would be helpful and would go a long way toward allaying any future concerns if you care to disclose this information. But this is merely a request, not a requirement. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 06:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
+: Finally Coastda, would you mind revealing who you are, or what your relationship to Josh Marquis is? You are of course under no obligation to do so, but Wikipedia has [[WP:COI|fairly exacting standards]] on how people closely associated with an article's subject should approach editing, and it would make things smoother if we knew. Your user name and your focus on this article will likely raise some eyebrows. However, I appreciate your approach to editing, and your engaging in the discussion here on the talk page; I do not personally feel there is cause for concern. So, it would be helpful and would go a long way toward allaying any future concerns if you care to disclose this information. But this is merely a request, not a requirement. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 06:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
-: Coastda IS Josh Marquis. Its the screen name I use everywhere....e-mail, webpage. I thought it was evident, but if not I am happpy to confirm it. I am vigilant about edits to a page that concerns me because a quick google search will show that that there is a small but very vitriolic group of people who intensely dislike me.  [[User:Coastda|Coastda]] ([[User talk:Coastda|talk]]) 16:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
+Coastda IS Josh Marquis. Its the screen name I use everywhere....e-mail, webpage. I thought it was evident, but if not I am happpy to confirm it. I am vigilant about edits to a page that concerns me because a quick google search will show that that there is a small but very vitriolic group of people who intensely dislike me.  [[User:Coastda|Coastda]] ([[User talk:Coastda|talk]]) 16:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
-:: Hmm, I guess the above proves or suggests Josh Marquis is reading the website you called not authoritative.  Evidently he considers the website authoritative on opposing opinions.  Perhaps that should alter your decision about including a link to it.  It should also be noted that his parents pre-programmed him to lie by naming him Josh for to Josh means to lie.
 :: Thanks very much for clarifying, and sorry if I was overlooking the obvious. I have run into trouble making assumptions on this in the past, and prefer to err on the side of caution. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 03:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)