Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/CRGreathouse

CRGreathouse

Nomination

Voice your opinion (talk page) (17/4/1); Scheduled to end 20:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

CRGreathouse (talk · contribs) – I would like to nominate CRGreathouse for adminship. CRGreathouse is a mathematician who has worked tirelessly, since 2006, at maintaining our articles on mathematical topics and some other topics as well, keeping them accurate, accessible, and free of unsupported claims and crank theories.
I have encountered him a few times in editing articles, and the interactions have always been positive -- CRGreathouse knows what he's talking about and knows how to improve Wikipedia. Once, when I disagreed with him regarding how to handle another user's edits, he gave me a great explanation of the approach he was taking and how it promoted civility and good content, and I ended up agreeing with his approach.
CRGreathouse is not your usual "admin-track" candidate. You may not be used to seeing candidates who take this much time between edits, but CRGreathouse often does the kind of editing that involves serious research, such as verifying and adding references on obscure topics. As Wikipedia grows and gets more accurate, it takes more research than ever before to find and fix the problems that remain. CRGreathouse has been doing his part to mop up Wikipedia's content for years, and Wikipedia will benefit if we give him a better mop to do it with. rspεεr (talk) 07:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously. Spam and eggs. What's purple and commutes?

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?

A: Reviewing speedy deletions, checking copyright issues—I have some IP knowledge, fighting vandalism, and generally keeping civility. I'll take the block/semiprotect/protect piece, but keep it holstered as long as possible. The admin anti-vandalism tools should be handy, and many parts of page management require admin powers (like moving a page to a former redirect). I also hope to be the traditional "uninvolved admin" that can be called in as needed in a variety of situations.

2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?

A: I'm rather fond of Dickman-de Bruijn function, which took 30+ hours of research. But my edits have been widespread: computer science (Big O notation#Orders of common functions), economics (theorems of May and Duggan-Schwartz, see also the section-in-progress at User:CRGreathouse/Arrow), mathematics (Double exponential function), and linguistics (I've started at least 6 pages for languages). But these examples aside, I've focused mainly on improving the quality rather than the quantity at Wikipedia. This is largely by improving sources, adding new results, or rewriting to make connections between different parts of an article or with other articles more clear.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: Through happenstance or a fluke of psychology, other users don't cause stress for me. But like any other established editor, I've had my fair share of conflict. I find that after discussing the issue at hand, most everyone is reasonable—and once both sides understand the other, they can work together rather than against each other. This isn't a platitude:

• User:TerriersFan and I were (and are) on opposite sides of the school article divide (TF is a splitter and I'm a lumper), but after discussing our views on each other' talk pages and working on a (failed) standard for school articles we came to cite each other on AfD on a majority of articles where we both posted. Evidence of this collaboration goes throughout our edit histories: for example, after !voting differently than TF would/did, I got a ping [1] as requested when more information came to light, letting me change my !vote.
• I 'met' User:SandyGeorgia after she reverted one of my changed to Hugo Chávez. After some discussion on her Talk page we ironed it out and worked together to improve the article (mostly by adding comparative data and improving references, which at that point were strongly POV).
• User:VoteFair was apparently disrupting Kemeny-Young method, but (as rspεεr mentioned in the nomination!) working with him resulted in a stronger article. Once it was clear that no one could push unilateral changes through, each 'side' moved to include more information to the article (and eventually, good sourcing as well).
• After creating User:CRGreathouse/Large and small sets, I asked for feedback on incorporating it into the article namespace. User:Trovatore objected that it was a WP:SYNTH. Recognizing him as the (mathematical) expert he is, I followed his advice. Rather than fight me, he created an article [2] where the content could go!
• I never did end up working with User:SuperFlanker. Instead, I let my WP:0RR tendencies go wild and brought the whole issue to Talk, letting the other editors carry the day: [3]. I'm happy to say that the final consensus version was better than my own.
• User:Chergles and I had a bit of a conflict: [4], but I hope I've resolved it by airing out the conflict at RfA.

Questions from John Sloan (talk)

4. This is normally xeno's RfA question. However, I like it as well. As an administrator, you will come across some extremely vulgar language and often come under attack for your actions. You will most likely have to deal with some fairly troublesome users. The users you block will sometimes ask to be unblocked. Please review the very NSFW scenario outlined at User:Xenocidic/RFAQ and describe how you would respond to the IP's request to be unblocked.

A. If it's gone that far, I think I'd let the 1-week duration run its course. Anons don't have much to lose by saying "you can block me for life". And if nothing else, the user can create content on their Talk page until the block. If (at my suggestion -- the idea might not occur otherwise) the user did create some useful new content on their Talk page in preparation for the block expiration, I might ask an uninvolved admin to review the case. Surely at that point I'd be too heavily invested to properly decide.

Strictly optional questions from TotientDragooned (talk)

5. In your opinion, is adminship a big deal? I'm not necessarily looking for a copy-paste from WP:ADMIN; several very prominent community members disagree. Do you believe there's a rift between how policy states adminship should be perceived, and how it is actually perceived? If so, is that a problem?

A. I rather agree with WP:NOBIGDEAL, personally. As for others, I've seen a remarkable plurality of opinion on the subject. But I don't think that it's a problem, because I'd prefer people to keep their own views than to homogenize them across Wikipedia. If the community feels strongly enough, they can change the importance of the position, both by changing how they nominate and vote for admins, and by changing the actual powers granted to admins.

6. Do you believe in the Axiom of Choice? ;)

A. Actually, I think that's an excellent question, since explaining the answer may provide insight. :) I used to believe [[5]], in the independent reality of ZFC. In fact, one of the early versions of my user page even claimed as much! But in the time since, I've come to understand the foundations of math better. While I'm still essentially a Platonist, I'm not at all sure of the 'truth' of the Axiom of Choice. Further, I'm not even convinced that ZF is sufficient to meet my ontological needs: the foundation axiom seems overly strong and not needed for most proofs. I have a passing interest in reverse mathematics as a result, trying to find how little math is needed for certain theorems.

Of course, favoring number theory over analysis gives me the luxury of not considering AC all the time. Working with real numbers is difficult without some kind of choice, and nonstandard analysis is flat-out impossible. But as long as I can remain sheltered from it, I shy away from AC. At the least, I like to consider when I'm using it (and the axiom of foundation) in my proofs.

Questions from flaminglawyer^c

7. The classic: What's the difference between a ban and a block?

A. Bans are a decision to stop someone from editing. A block prevents someone from editing. Bans come from ArbCom (or Jimbo Wales, or others delegated authority), while any (uninvolved) admin can block users. Blocking is usually just a quick tool to let tensions cool, though it can be for a long time or even permanent.

8. One I just made up: You have just been granted adminship after a successful 75/8/4 RfA. A prominent, tenured admin, checkuser, and bureaucrat blocks you for 10 days, with no explanation. You have tried to email the blocking admin, but get no response. You have tried to create a new account and post your situation at AN/I, but every time you do, the blocking admin immediately deletes-and-salts your post, and indefblocks you as a sock of your original account (abusing his checkuser rights, obviously). What will you do now?

A. I'd be surprised if someone went through that much trouble. I'd probably leave the situation alone for a few days at least, to let the `crat cool down, then try the AN/I approach again. If the blocking admin had contact information on his/her user page I might send an email asking for clarification. I'd need to know more about the reasons behind the unusual behavior before knowing where to go from there. But in the likely case that the `crat's anger is misdirected, I don't think it would even bother me, at least once I was unblocked. In the meantime I can do more research for articles!

Question from Goodmorningworld (talk)

9. A real live mathematician! Sounds great. I have two questions: In your most recent 1000 edits I found none at the Reference Desk. Could you see your way to contributing there occasionally or are the questions there too beginnerish for your taste? Second, Wikipedia desperately needs subject-matter experts who combat the pseudo science peddlers. One editor who was very prominent in this effort recently flamed out (and many people think he went overboard in the opposite direction.) Would you consider devoting some of your time to this effort and how would you see yourself doing so in your new "job" as admin?--Goodmorningworld (talk) 22:10, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

A: First, I don't want to oversell my mathematical abilities here: I do research mathematics only in my spare time, working as a programmer during the day. But I do like to work on entries to Sloane's OEIS and work on primepuzzles and the like.

I have to say that the main reason I don't post over at the Reference Desk is just that I don't happen by there often. I do often help beginners at mymathforum or physicsforums, where I have the same username, but I don't often happen by the refdesk. Maybe that'll change, maybe not.

I'm a very strong opponent of pseudoscience/pseudomathematics and combat it wherever I see it. I'm amused by the list at [6].

Optional question from RMHED

10. You say that you want to use the admin tools to review speedy deletions, yet I can find no evidence of you doing this as a non-admin. Can you show diffs to the contrary? If not why should I trust your judgement on CSD's?

A. K50 Dude, below, opposed my candidacy for this reason. I responded that his criticism was valid: although I have worked with speedy deletions (I may provide diffs later, let me answer the rest of the questions for now), I don't believe I have done any in the last few months (unless possibly with WP:SCHOOLS-related work).

But I'm not sure why, a priori, that should inspire distrust. The founding principle of Wikipedia is that the value of many contributors is greater than any individual contribution, and the germ of that idea led to the concept that *any* user (well, almost any... certain restrictions do apply) could add or remove the speedy template. In areas where I have expertise, I feel that I am rather qualified to make these decisions. In clear-cut cases, as in vandalism, I also have no trouble picking the appropriate actions. It's true, there may be some gray areas where I won't feel comfortable making the decision. Here are diffs from a recent similar (prod/AfD rather than speedy) case: [7][8] I removed one {{prod}} tag but did not vote on the related AfD because I didn't feel the resolution was clear. But I don't think it's bad to be limited like that (at least at first), especially if you know your limits.

Very optional questions from Stifle

11. What's your favourite lemma/theorem/principle/etc. that's equivalent to the axiom of choice?

A. Depends on how I'm feeling about it at the moment. When I'm pro-AC, I think of trichotomy. I mean, c'mon... how can you not have trichotomy? When I'm feeling anti-, I go for the well-ordering principle. How can it be that *every* set has a well-ordering? That's strong stuff.

12. What's your Erdös number?

A. ∞, sadly enough.

Optional question from Keepscases

13. Do you believe that .99999... = 1? Why or why not?

A: Of course. Do you want the 3 * (1/3) proof, the limit proof (lim 1 - (10^n - 1)/10^n = lim 10^-n = 0), or the Completeness proof? Of course there are systems with nonzero infinitesmals, but when people talk about 0.999... they implicitly mean the real number 0.999..., I assume.

Optional question from TheIntersect

14. In your opinion, what is the most beautiful math equation ever derived?

A: I'm going to have to cop out and say Euler's formula. I'm partial to Fermat's little theorem, but nothing can match Euler's formula for sheer beauty. Of course Hamilton's formula $i^{2}=j^{2}=k^{2}=ijk=-1$ is pretty nice too.

Optional question from Wehwalt

By a theorem of Wiles, we know that $a^{n}+b^{n}=c^{n}$ for nonzero a,b,c implies n ≥ 0, QED.

15. In the margin space to the left, solve Fermat's Last Theorem. A: OK. I've used only one piece of mathematics not available to Pierre de Fermat; I hope that's acceptable.

Question from Mr. IP

16. Do you think the community should make changes to counteract declining public participation at Wikipedia? If so, what policies should we change?

A. First of all, I don't think that the public or new users are familiar at all with Wikipedia policies, so I wouldn't change them for that reason. (I might want to change them for other reasons, but that wouldn't be one.) To some extent, a leveling off of user registrations and a decline in article creation are signs of a maturing encyclopedia and community, so I don't have any strong fears. But if this turns out to be a trend (not a seasonal issue) I could see value in changing other things that new users and prospective editors do see: our main page, our self-descriptions ("how to edit a page" and the like), and so forth.

Loaded, non-math-related Q from flaminglawyer^c

17. Why do you want to be an admin? i.e., if you had to write a self-nom for yourself, what would it say?

A. It's just the next thing I can do to help the community out. I don't think I could top the nomination above, especially as I don't like to self-promote. I'm much the hopeless idealist à la George Washington: candidates shouldn't promote themselves, but simply present themselves to the nation (community, in this case) to be selected, or not.

Optional questions from User:Dlohcierekim that he lifted form User:Benon who got them from Tawker, JoshuaZ, Rob Church, NSLE. They are 100% optional but may help myself or other voters decide. Some of these are not specifically related to your areas of interest. If I have already voted please feel free to ignore these questions though other editors might find them to be of use. You can also remove the questions you don't want to touch if you like.

18. You find out that an editor, who's well-known and liked in the community, has been using sockpuppets abusively. What would you do?

A. Look, I'm a nice guy and I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. But abusing sockpuppets to game support on AfDs or proposals, etc. is a violation of community trust. My tendency would be the hammer: indefblock the socks. Without more details I can't say much more.

19. An editor asks you to mediate in a dispute that has gone from being a content dispute to an edit war (but not necessarily a revert war), with hostile language in edit summaries (that are not personal attacks). One involved party welcomes the involvement of an admin, but the other seems to ignore you. They have both rejected WP:RFC as they do not think it would solve anything. Just as you are about to approach the user ignoring you, another admin blocks them both for edit warring and sends the case to WP:RFAR as a third party. Would you respect the other admin's decisions, or would you continue to engage in conversation (over email or IRC) and submit a comment/statement to the RFAR? Let's say the ArbCom rejects the case. What would you do then?

A. I would respect the other admin's decision. I would submit a statement to RFAR and leave it in their hands. Assuming (per the scenario) that it's rejected, I would discuss resolution with the other admin. The other admin is probably more knowledgeable about the dispute, since I've just been called in, and the reasons that admin has are probably valid. But I'd want to make sure the other admin was sufficiently uninvolved to make fair decisions.

But overall, assuming good faith applies to admins as well as users, and wheel-warring is never a good idea.

20. If you could change any one thing about Wikipedia what would it be?

A. That's the beauty of it, isn't it? The changes I want, I can make!

21. Under what circumstances would you indefinitely block a user without any prior direction from Arb Com?

A. Actually, I can't immediately think of one. Indefinitely is a long time. Surely a shorter block would give ArbCom enough time to decide if indefinite blocking is needed.

22. Suppose you are closing an AfD where it would be keep if one counted certain votes that you suspect are sockpuppets/meatpuppets and would be delete otherwise. The RCU returns inconclusive, what do you do? Is your answer any different if the two possibilities are between no consensus and delete?

A. Sockpuppet abuse, as I wrote above, is very bad. I would certainly discount sock votes in all cases; if that leads to deletion, so be it. Meatpuppetry is a more subtle issue. But if meatpuppets would push an issue from keep to delete or the reverse, I would tend to throw the result to no consensus -- let the community decide again. But even that is subject to a reasonableness test. Are we talking about a guy and his two friends, or 100 people from a forum with new accounts?

23. Do you believe there is a minimum number of people who need to express their opinions in order to reasonably close an AfD? If so, what is that number? What about RfDs and CfDs?

A. That depends on how strong the consensus is. If everyone is quite agreed on the outcome and the reasons, I could see closing with as few as perhaps four !votes. But in most cases I'd want twice as many. There is also a minimum time, even if an apparent consensus has been reached.

24. At times, administrators have experienced, or have been close to burnout due to a mixture of stress and conflict inherent in a collaborative web site of this nature. Do you feel able to justify yourself under pressure, and to not permit stress to become overwhelming and cause undesirable or confused behaviour?

A. I've saved a friend from bleeding to death, extinguished a house fire, and worked with plutonium. After that, edit wars on Wikipedia just don't have much effect on me.

25. Why do you want to be an administrator?

A. As in #17, because I want to help out. I think Wikipedia is creating real value, and I'd like to be a tiny part of that.

And one of my own.

26. Is it more important to speedily delete articles that meet WP:CSD as they sit, or to first make a search for reliable sources and verifiable information that would show them to meet notability requirements?

A. For CSD, generally as they sit. Even if a good article could be written on the subject, the page should still be deleted if it's a complete WP:COPYVIO. AfD is much more nuanced.

General comments

• Links for CRGreathouse: CRGreathouse (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)

---

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/CRGreathouse before commenting.

Discussion

• An Abelian grape. Amazing that we have an article on mathematical jokes. Keegan^talk 21:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
• There seems to be a lot of irrelevant questions above, 11-13 are really nothing to do with adminship. Foxy Loxy ^Pounce! 01:02, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
  • The questions are, of course, completely optional, thus if the candidate feels that way they are not obligated to answer. In my view the questions are related to adminship in that they give us a sense of who we are dealing with. For example the answer to question 13 will require a good explanation with well thought-out reasoning, which is an essential ability for an administrator to possess. ~ TheIntersect 01:16, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Yes, those (and several others!) aren't directly relevant. But people did ask them, and surely they have their reasons. Maybe they want to see how I think, or maybe they just found them funny. I enjoyed answering them -- they were a nice break from the more serious ones. CRGreathouse (t | c) 06:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
• 26 RfA Questions already? Come on, people, that's flat out ridiculous. (and we all know the questions aren't really optional) Wizardman 05:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Heh, it is a lot. But people want to make informed !votes, I suppose, and I can't begrudge them that. CRGreathouse (t | c) 06:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Support

1. Beat the nom support - Not seen any issues so far, not really sure of what is going on in Wily's diff - if someone can explain why it is so bad to me it would be much appreciated, I might be missing the context. — neuro^(talk) 21:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
2. Support, if only all users were like CRGreathouse! --Aqwis (talk – contributions) 21:18, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
3. Support Contributions seem sound. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 21:38, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
4. Support because of my experiences with GRGreathouse. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 21:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
5. Support for now, based solely upon the math joke. Mind may be changed later, depending on your answers to questions. flaminglawyer^c 21:45, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
6. Support I have no doubt in my mind that he won't use the tools the correctly.--Iamawesome800 22:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
7. Support Based on candidate's answers to questions and AGF.--Goodmorningworld (talk) 22:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
8. Support the math jokes are great, and the opposition just doesn't add up.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
9. Hello, I'm J. Robert Oppenheimer and I just split the atom...anyone want half an atom? Oh, wrong queue. But while I'm here: Support for someone who knows 2+2 and then some! Ecoleetage (talk) 22:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
10. Support - Great candidate, unlike to abuse the tools. VX!^~~~ 22:45, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
11. (e/c) Why not. Stifle (talk) 22:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
12. Support as nom. rspεεr (talk) 23:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
13. Support Established editor, good contributions, good interactions with others, no problems as a general editor. I see no indication that the admin tools would be misused to harm the project. --NrDg 23:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
14. Support good contributor, sole oppose vote does not sound at all convincing, per my RfA criteria Foxy Loxy ^Pounce! 01:02, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
15. Support - Looks like a good candidate. Tiptoety ^talk 01:19, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
16. Support Looks great! LittleMountain5 01:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

    Weak SupportCan't decide what looks to be a clueful character.

    I also want to note WilyD's note may not have been the best idea. He's free to vote how he wishes, but I just want to point out that this is probably not the best place to bring it up. Flagged Revisions carries only about 60% community support at best, and attempting to sink an RfA on such highly divisive grounds is patently unfair, in my opinion. NuclearWarfare _(Talk) 03:53, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

17. Strong Support Wizardman 05:49, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose - We can't afford more admins who simply don't think about the consequences of their actions/our actions. This has to make the candidacy a non-starter. WilyD 20:54, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   What's wrong with that comment? That he opposes flagged revisions? TotientDragooned (talk) 21:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   Agree with confusion, what's going on here? It's not like he's being uncivil, or insulting, thats just a honest opinion on flagged revisions. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 21:38, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   Not to pile on, but I'm going to have to disagree. Everybody is allowed their own opinion. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 21:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   And everyone is allowed to discuss said opinion. I've said this too many times today but, this is not a vote. Unless you're defending CRGreathouse having his opinion at the FR discussion, in which case, carry on and ignore me being over sensitive. John Sloan (view / chat) 21:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   True dat. To each man his own. (fwiw, John, you e/c'd me 3 times in less than a minute) flaminglawyer^c 21:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   Oh sorry! I bet that was frustrating :D John Sloan (view / chat) 21:55, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   Yeh, but no hard feelings. flaminglawyer^c 22:10, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   Wikipedia is now a prominent website with the ability to affect the lives of real people, in many cases in harmful ways. It is our responsibility to wield this power ethically and so forth. Those who fail to realise that, or who just don't care, simply shouldn't be given that power. Whether it reflects ignorance, carelessness or indifference, I don't know, but it doesn't matter. In any case, whatever their motives, it betrays an unsuitability for a position of responsibility here (as much as technically admins have no responsibilities, they can take them and all that). WilyD 22:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   I wouldn't have worded it like that, but 100% agree. flaminglawyer^c 22:10, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   It's a great speech, but doesn't apply to this particular user. flaminglawyer^c 22:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   How does that diff indicate that the user would act 'unethically', or has? — neuro^(talk) 22:14, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   Unethically is probably too strong. Carelessly is probably the best guess . But we have an ethical duty to protect people from serious harm due to our carelessness - I simply cannot trust someone to wield administrative powers who either doesn't appreciate that, or doesn't care. WilyD 22:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   I'm actually not seeing anything indicative of "unethitcality," "carelessness," or anything similar. All I see is that one link from Wily, which I don't see anything wrong with. flaminglawyer^c 22:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   Not to change your mind or anything, but I did support the trial run of flagged revisions. I do think that they will prove harmful in the long run, but if they're good the trial would let me change my mind. CRGreathouse (t | c) 22:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   This is not really "so much" about flagged revisions. But "do nothing about BLPs" is really too extreme for any potential admin to endorse. For myself, I like flag revisions, and am a little conflicted about semi-protection. I would be open to a variety of other solutions (though I don't know any good ones that've been suggested). We can, as reasonable people, disagree about what to do, but I don't think we can disagree as responsible people as to whether anything needs to be done. My own nonsexual crush on flagged revisions not withstanding, I would take issue with other perspectives that recognised the seriousness of the problem and the pressing need to do something about it. In short, this is fundamentally about BLP, not fundamentally about FlaggedRevs (me being me, I can understand why one might confuse the point). WilyD 22:30, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   He didn't say "do nothing about Blps" or anyhting like that. he said "If the cure is worse tahn the disease..." and by using "disease" he indicated he thought there was a problem with Blps.--Patton^t/c 23:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

2. Oppose. After looking at your contributions, you haven't worked with a speedy deletion related article and I looked thru August 2008. That is 5 and a half months. I don't know if you did some work before that, however without recent activity in an area of focus, I can't support. I didn't even have an account on Wikipedia back then! I appreciate your work in AfD's but still... WP:CSD is what you said and you clearly don't have experience in the last couple months of that to what I saw. K50 Dude ROCKS! 02:16, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   He said that is what he would use the mop for, not that he did it in the past.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:18, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   But CSD is absolutely the last area where we want to be promoting somebody who is going to only learn on the job. Too much damage can be done by hasty speedy deleters that we need to have some idea as to how he approaches CSD. There is zero chance that I can support somebody who explicitly wants to work with CSD who has no experience there---especially when that is his primary need for the tools.---Balloonman ^PoppaBalloonCSD Survey Results 06:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   The criticism is essentially valid. I have speedied articles, and removed speedy templates, but not often or recently. In fairness, though, I didn't claim that I had, just that that was the intended use for my 'powers'. CRGreathouse (t | c) 04:59, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   Okay, then what do you want your main focus to be on when you start working (if this passes) on admin-related tasks? K50 Dude ROCKS! 05:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

3. Weak Oppose for now. I'm on the fence with this one. The first thing I noticed about the candidate was that his talk page goes back a year and a half, a sign of little communication with other editors. (Actually, the first thing I noticed was that he knows C++, as per his userpage, but that was pretty irrelevant). I was also put off because of his lack of communication here, when a new editor of only a month and a half came to him with a legitimate question regarding a particular individual's behavior and its relation to policy. CRGreathouse did not attempt to answer the question, give the new editor a policy link, or even point him to someone who he thought could help, instead responding, "I'm not an admin", which was completely unhelpful. Now, obviously that diff is from six months ago, but it was within the candidate's last 50 User Talk edits. Next, CRGreathouse's last 500 edits go back over five months, so that makes me question whether he remains all that current on the goings-on here on Wikipedia. Of course, I'm aware of real-life, but having so few recent edits gives me the feeling that maybe he's a little "rusty". I was also not a fan of his edit here, where he said, "I shouldn't have to do it [RFA] more than once." To me, that came off extremely cocky. Also, looking through his project space contribs, I see that he works nearly exclusively in AFD (now don't get me wrong, his work there looks good), so I'd be comfortable with him working there, but he doesn't mention it in Q1, unless that was included by "many parts of page management", but he instead speaks of CSD, an area in which he appears to have little experience. I'm probably going to be coming back to this repeatedly over the next week, but that's what I'm seeing at the moment. Useight (talk) 04:47, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   Those are actually all valid concerns. I would like to qualify "I shouldn't have to do it more than once", though. I might make sysop, I might not; either is fine with me. But if I don't make it, I don't think I'll run again. I'm happy to edit articles normally. I do think I'd be even more handy as an admin, but if the community decides otherwise, who am I to disagree?

   The "I'm not an admin" response was, as you pointed out, unhelpful. In my defense, though, the section (and edit summary, as I recall) was titled "Are you an admin?", so my response (though terse) was correct. Admittedly, I could have posted some policies to point the poster in the right direction, but I didn't; I think I was about to leave then, so I was a bit rushed.

   CRGreathouse (t | c) 04:53, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   Good to know about that "more than once" comment. As for the "I'm not an admin", true, the header was indeed "Are you an admin?", but there was a more important question in the body of the text that you left completely unanswered. I also wanted to mention that I disagreed with your answer to Q7 about cool-down blocks, but I forgot that part in my oppose above. Useight (talk) 05:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

4. Obvious Oppose. There are several very obvious reasons to oppose this candidate. First, this user has fewer than 800 edits over the past 8 months. In only two months has he had more than 100 edits. While a lot of edits doesn't mean anything, a dearth of edits is a concern. The nominator may try to rationalize this away, but fewer than 100 edits in 6 of the past 8 months? I want to see people who are more active as admins---plus the lack of edits makes it hard to gauge. His last 50 talk space edits takes us all the way back to Jun 08. His last 50 user talk takes us back to early May of last year. That's about 6-7 edits per month in those key areas for admins. Second, with the exception of AFD and Wikiproject Math, he has virtually zero experience in adminly areas. So how does he vote in AfD's? These are from his last 100 Wikispace edits (so probably less than 40 AFD's):Redirect or deleteper Per Per Per per per perper per per per per merge else delete per He does provide more elaborate reasons when dealing with schools, but for the most part, his AFD !voting doesn't really stand out as exemplary. Which brings me to my third, and most important reason for opposing. GRC indicates a desire to work with CSD. This is an explicit reason he gave in answer number 1, but he has zero experience there. If somebody wants to work in CSD they need to have ample experience there. That is one area where we can't afford to let others learn on the job. Mistakes there can have dire consequences. I MIGHT be able to over look this lack if his AFD work was top notch, but as he defers to others so much, I can't.---Balloonman ^PoppaBalloonCSD Survey Results 06:10, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Neutral for now. Answer to Q7 is wrong, blocks should not be used to allow people to calm down. This shows a lack of key policy knowledge by the candidate. I'll wait a while before making any further decision. John Sloan (view / chat) 22:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   If I am usually a good editor but am very passioante about some article which I wrote, and all of a sudden it goes up for deletion, I might get a bit annoyed and start insulting people. Usually I'd be blocked for 12-24 hours for this, to prevent further disruption. Now how do you think blocking me prevents further disruption? That's right, I have time to cool down and think about my actions. Cool down blocks happen on a regular basis and are not controversial.--Patton^t/c 23:30, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

   There was a long discussion down at the WT about this before. There was general agreement that policy wording on CDB's needed to be modified, if I recall. — neuro^(talk) 00:02, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   "blocks should not be used to allow people to calm down" -- isn't this what WP:3RR is all about? Maybe I just phrased my response poorly. CRGreathouse (t | c) 04:47, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   There has been tons of discussion on RfA about cool down blocks, which you may not have seen if you havenn't hunt around here. I'd suggest looking at WP:BLOCK again though. The main part about them is that they should be preventative, not punitive. NuclearWarfare _(Talk) 04:55, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

   Yes, I was actually referring to the effect of short-duration blocks, mostly 3RR, which do cool down edit wars in progress (in my experience, at least). I don't really support blocks just for cooling down, only when there are other policy violations at issue. CRGreathouse (t | c) 06:18, 10 January 2009 (UTC)