Talk:Tom Cruise

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Rebecca DeMornay?

First of all, this person is not even mentioned in this article. Who is she? If you look at the article of the person in question, the source attributed to them "dating" merely states that they lived together (perhaps as a room mate? stating anything else is original research), but nowhere in that source does it say that they "dated and lived together for 2 years". Source it properly, and then readd it. Ugh... edit warriors. Nymf _hideliho! 01:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Added to Relationships and personal life section, along with two refs. Jim Michael (talk) 02:10, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

The first source does not say that they dated, and the second source is vague at best. Nymf _hideliho! 02:26, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Three refs now, which I think are sufficient. Jim Michael (talk) 03:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

No. There is one ref that does not mention it, one ref that is extremely vague, and one ref that uses Wikipedia as a source. Nymf _hideliho! 03:02, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Ancestry

I Heard he has Korean and Nigerian blood in him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.239.238 (talk) 02:50, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Do you have any evidence of that? Jim Michael (talk) 15:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

William Mapother

A lot of articles list famous relatives. His first cousin is William Mapother, who played Ethan Rom in Lost. He seems to have something of a working relationship with Cruise as he's appeared with him in 4 movies, albeit in smaller supporting roles: Minority Report, Born on the Fourth of July, Mission Impossible 2, and Magnolia. 90.209.80.247 (talk) 17:09, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

It is relevant enough to include in this article. According to Mapother's article, his father and Cruise's father were brothers, but it is unsourced. Jim Michael (talk) 16:26, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Theexister, 10 May 2011

There is a factual error in the first line that begins as "Cruise first debuted in a major movie in Francis Ford Coppola's film The Outsiders, released in March 2003. His first leading role was in the film Risky Business,[1] which was released in August 2003." where in the year of of the movie releases are incorrect (2003 should instead be 1983) and should instead read as "Cruise first debuted in a major movie in Francis Ford Coppola's film The Outsiders, released in March 1983. His first leading role was in the film Risky Business,[1] which was released in August 1983."

The source for the movie "The Outsiders" is Wiki itself - . The source for the movie "Risky Business" is Wiki itself - . Theexister (talk) 19:03, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

This has been fixed.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 20:23, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Tom Cruise filmography should be merged into Tom Cruise#Filmography because the former is really just a list with no sustainable, stand-alone content.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 20:18, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Filmography

Does anyone know why Tom Cruise's Filmography is the only one with the Actors Salary, Film Budget, and Film Gross columns. I think this is great info, but I do not see these columns on other actors that I spot-checked.

Dave —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulmec (talk • contribs) 13:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Editing needed

I believe the movie Legend, a cult classic, directed by Ridley Scott and released in 1985 has been omitted. I think that information should be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Digital7 (talk • contribs) 05:21, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with user Digital7 this movie should be included as he played the lead role. J vigue 99 (talk) 01:10, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Religion in infobox

Why is Tom Cruise allowed "Religion" in his info box? I think his Wiki page is actually the first actor/actress page I've seen where Religion is even mentioned. Just because he is very outspoken about his following is not a reason to put it in his info box. Even Mimi Rogers does not have it, and she introduced him to it!

It doesn't seem fair, and I have removed for fairness and to stay with standards. I'm not even debating the fact that Scientology is not recognized as a religion in many parts of the world. Let's give some examples to support my point. Robia Lamorte is a actress turned born-again Christian preacher (for lack of a better word). Her main career is now religion-based, but her religion is not put in the info box. Lil Wayne has proclaimed several times, during award shows and interviews, that he believes in God, but his religion is not stated in his info box. Ben Stiller has stated he is a non-practising Jew, but secular Jew is not stated as his religion in his info box. Woody Allen has stated he is an atheist, but that does not appear as his religion in his info box. I could go on and on with endless number of examples, but I think my point is made. There are standards to Wikipedia. Tom Cruise's main occupation is an actor, not a religious figure. Nitroblu (talk) 15:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

There is nothing unfair or non-standard in stating the subject's religion in his infobox. Tom Cruise's Scientology is very relevant to his personal and public life. He, and other adherants of it consider it to be a religion, as do some countries. Mimi Rogers should have Scientologist added to her infobox, as well as a recent reference stating that she is still an adherant, providing that is the case. LaMorte's infobox has far too little information in it. Lil Wayne's infobox cannot have his religion in it as it does not have a parameter for it. 'Secular Jew' isn't a religion; Stiller is culturally and ethnically Jewish, but does not appear to follow Judaism, so he does not have a religion. Woody Allen should have atheist added to his infobox. Religion has only been available as a parameter for infoboxes of actors since October. Many editors are unaware of the parameter's existence, and many articles have not yet had their religion entered in the box. In many other cases either the subject does not have a religion or it is not reported by reliable sources. Jim Michael (talk) 19:48, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Scientology edit - Being consistent

I push to remove the below per the discussion on the David Miscavige Wikipedia page:

“In May 2010, a former high-ranking member of the Church of Scientology, Mark Rathbun, said that Scientology leader David Miscavige had ordered that Cruise's auditing sessions be secretly videotaped.[86] [87] Rathbun had himself been responsible for performing auditing counseling with Cruise.[86] The Church of Scientology has stated that taping of confessional sessions is done openly, for monitoring and training purposes, and that the confidentiality of anything discussed in such sessions is "sacrosanct".[88]”

If there is no objection, I will go ahead and remove the post. NestleNW911 (talk) 22:30, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Removed. NestleNW911 (talk) 22:51, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

what were your reasons for removing this section? Monkeymanman (talk) 13:33, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Admin Coffeepusher made this exact same edit (as I posted the link to the edit here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Miscavige&diff=425533814&oldid=425532044). This edit should be removed for similar reasons.NestleNW911 (talk) 00:49, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

It does seem a bit of an odd inclusion seeing as the group claim that the tape was basically stolen and not secretly recorded. But even then if Rathbun did say that then there may be a case for its inclusion. But i dont think it really matters. Monkeymanman (talk) 19:10, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Hmm

Quote: "Cruise's latest starring role is in the historical thriller Valkyrie, released on December 25, 2008 to box office success." Surely "Cruise's next starring role... he has done several films since then. --86.148.212.28 (talk) 16:34, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Good catch. I went ahead and made that change. We could probably add "Rock of Ages" and "Oblivion" to this section as well, as there are numerous sources to support his involvement in both films just don't use IMDB.com as it is not a WP:RS. Scifilover386 (talk) 17:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Scientology section

Youtube is currently hosting the Tom Cruise scientology video, as well as Gawker. Users should be directed to the URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBZ_uAbxS0 or http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientology-tried-to-suppress, or it should at least be mentioned that the video is currently still available for viewing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erinjohnson (talk • contribs) 02:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Education

Tom also attend St. Xavier High School in Louisville KY for some period of time. See the page St._Xavier_High_School_(Louisville) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oz55555 (talk • contribs) 05:17, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Four Octave Vocal Range

somebody should add him to Category:Singers with a four octave vocal range
see http://www.yourmovies.com.au/slideshow/?site_section_id=1005&start=17&action=view
--60.241.153.201 (talk) 14:42, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

MOVIE

Tom Cruise had another previous movie that is not here. I forgot the title but it is a fantasy film. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.114.249.129 (talk) 01:20, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

You're likely thinking of 1985's Legend, listed at Tom Cruise filmography.

How tall is Tom Cruise?

I've heard that he is 'short.' Does anyone know an exact height? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.180.16.67 (talk) 01:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC) According to "CelebHeights.com" Cruise is 5 ft 7.75 inches or 172cm tall http://www.celebheights.com/s/Tom-Cruise-3.html How important this is to the character of Mr.Cruise is pure conjecture. Ern Malleyscrub (talk) 08:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC) Tom is about to star in a new movie with Julianne Hough. He is playing a rockstar who has a crazy attitude.CamerynL7 (talk) 14:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Eyes Wide Shut "erotic"?

The article refers to Eyes Wide Shut as an "erotic Stanley Kubrick film". I think calling a film "erotic" is probably NPOV or editorializing (especially without citation or qualification) , and the movie is pointedly not erotic, despite its depiction of sex and nudity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.49.34.69 (talk) 19:09, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 February 2012

Tom Cruise also appeared in the 1983 ensemble movie "The Outsiders", as Steve Randall 50.13.201.73 (talk) 04:43, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

 Not done Which is appropriately listed at Tom Cruise filmography (linked from Filmography section), since his total filmography is long and discussed enough to justify a separate article, with highlights here. Dru of Id (talk) 07:34, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

File:Tomcruisebynapsync.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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"Top Gun" Tom Cruise`s Return

Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar: Paramount has confirmed Tom Cruise`s announcement that after 26 years to record a continuation of the cult movie "Top Gun" Tom Cruise who brought international fame.93.137.44.29 (talk) 09:41, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

No "Gay" or "Gay-rumored" category?

I know there are a lot of people categorized as "gay" in Wikipedia. Probably it would be a problem to categorize Cruise in this way (think of the edit wars and/or lawsuits). But isn't there a "gay-rumored" category that would be clearly applicable? The phenomenon of famous people who are rumored to be gay/queer/GLBT or whatever is a real phenomenon and should be categorized as a phenomenon in a Wikipedia article or group of articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.184.24 (talk) 05:35, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

No. --MrIndustry (talk) 21:23, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

WHAT DOES IT MEAN "NO"??? WHO ARE YOU TO DECIDE??? I SAY YES!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.81.34.97 (talk) 15:21, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Let me rephrase. Hell no.--MrIndustry (talk) 19:58, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

WP:BLPCAT would explicitly prohibit any such category. Gaijin42 (talk) 17:18, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Divorced all 3 wives when they were 33

Seems like an odd coincidence but perhaps worth mentioning. Its easy to verify with the marriage dates and ages of respective partners. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrrealtime (talk • contribs) 15:42, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

It is a coincidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.127.106 (talk) 16:05, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Its an interesting coincidence, but not encyclopedic, and not notable unless its being discussed in an non-rumor was by WP:RS Gaijin42 (talk) 16:08, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 June 2012

Please add that Tom attended high school in Glen Ridge, New Jersey.

http://www.biography.com/people/tom-cruise-9262645

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/entertainment/film/biography/artist/tom-cruise/biography/124?page=2

JLed111 (talk) 01:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Not done for now: I would like other (uninvolved) people's input on whether the sources are reliable or not. Andie ▶Candy◀ 13:13, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: 1st site doesn't state the name of the school; 2nd site is not an entertainment site, so not really a secondary source - more like a ternary source Mdann52 (talk) 15:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

More Sources naming the school

http://www.snakkle.com/galleries/looking-back-tom-cruise-turns-50-birthday-before-they-were-stars-now-and-then/tom-cruise-yearbook-high-school-young-1980-photo-gc/

http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/51833

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000129/bio

If you can't trust imdb and his year book photo, what can you trust? A simple google search will yield many more results confirming this edit request. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JLed111 (talk • contribs)

Wikipedia explicitly does not trust IMDB for biographical information. The yearbook photo trust depends on the soruce that yearbook photo comes from. Please read WP:RS Gaijin42 (talk) 16:55, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. If you're still unsure if a particular source is reliable after consulting the guideline, you can post a question here. (Please check the archives at that page before you post.) Rivertorch (talk) 08:31, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

New section

Tom Cruise played Steve Randle in Francis Ford Coppola's 1983 film "The Outsiders".Pmdwyer (talk) 06:59, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

missing in the article Tom Cruise The Messiah of scientology

Is Tom Cruise The Messiah? / The Church of Scientology certainly thinks so. What if they're oh-so-horrifically right?
By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Published 04:00 a.m., Friday, February 2, 2007
http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/morford/article/Is-Tom-Cruise-The-Messiah-The-Church-of-2620118.php

--Über-Blick (talk) 07:05, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Why would we include this?--MrIndustry (talk) 07:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 July 2012

Tom Cruise is Divorced to Katie Holmes Anathi100 (talk) 02:10, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

 Not done. Please provide a reliable source showing that a divorce decree has been issued. Fat&Happy (talk) 02:15, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 July 2012

Please edit the article for non-factual, uncited, undocumented data: "Kidman...three months pregnant...later miscarried. "[53]" reference links to an invalid page; Twisted incorrect gossip.

==> Actual Truth: Kidman Clarifies - MISINFORMATION: "Kidman; Vanity Fair; headlines...lost a baby"

• • • "It was wrongly reported," she says, by everyone who picked up the story, claiming she'd had a miscarriage, when what she'd had was an ectopic pregnancy. "So it's huge news, and it didn't happen."marieclaire - Nicole Kidman Interview

71.53.191.241 (talk) 20:55, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't she have miscarried after the pregnancy because it wasn't viable in the first place? Just wondering (pending input from other editors) Andie ▶(Candy)◀ 16:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

1. Kidman stated her real medical diagnosis, ectopic. 2. Kidman stated medical diagnosis was "wrongly reported" as miscarriage. 3. Medical diagnosis for "miscarriage" is separate and distinct from "ectopic". 4. Wikipedia does not contain Opinions or Semantics on medical terminology, medical diagnosis, or wrongly reported tabloid trash.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.53.191.241 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 17 July 2012

Closing the edit request to clear the backlog. Is there a reason you can't create an account and edit it yourself?--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:26, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 August 2012

The Early Life section has a number of inaccuracies. I was a close friend of Tom's when he was at Robert Hopkins. I was in the play IT that is mentioned.

1) George Steinburg taught drama at Robert Hopkins (not Henry Munro). I am fairly certain (95+% confident) that Tom started at Robert Hopkins part way into grade 4, not grade 3. Mr. Steinburg left the school at the end of our grade 4.
2) In the play IT, I (Greg Orchard) had the title role playing "Evil" and was dressed in all black. Tom and 5 others, including Michael De Waal were in all white playing "Good". The title role was not won, I think I got it just because I had a black outfit from a production we did for remembrance day while the others had white ones.
3) IT was not filmed at the local TV station. However, Tom was on the local TV station. His mother took Tom, me and a few others to the station one day for a segment where she talked about drama and young children and we did things like pretending we were seeds growing into plants in the sun. We were just kids...
4) The paragraph is oddly worded as it implies that Tom's family moved to Beacon Hill prior to Grade 6. However, Robert Hopkins in in Beacon Hill so he already lived there. Having said that I am fairly certain that Tom did live in two different houses in Beacon Hill. Perhaps the first was rented.

Please note that I do not know if my suggested update invalidates any of the references. Obviously I do not have references myself as I am the source.

I am a new user to Wikipedia (no updates) so I can't make this change myself. I someone picks this up, feel free to contact me if there are any questions.

Here is the original paragraph I would like to see updated:

Cruise's family spent part of his childhood in Canada, and Cruise attended Robert Hopkins Public School in Ottawa, Ontario, from grades four to five. The Mapother family then moved to the suburb of Beacon Hill so that Cruise's father could take a position as a defense consultant with the Canadian Armed Forces. There, Cruise completed grade six at Henry Munro Middle School, part of the Carleton Board of Education, where he was active in athletics, playing floor hockey almost every night, showing himself to be a ruthless player, and eventually chipping his front tooth. In the game British bulldogs, he then lost his newly capped tooth and hurt his knee. Henry Munro was also where Cruise became involved in drama, under the tutelage of George Steinburg. The first play he participated in was called IT, in which Cruise won the co-lead with Michael de Waal, one playing "Evil", the other playing "Good". The play met much acclaim, and Cruise toured with five other classmates to various schools around the Ottawa area, even being filmed at the local Ottawa TV station. Cruise was bullied regularly in the 15 different schools he attended in 12 years. When Cruise was twelve, his mother left his father, taking Cruise and his sisters with her.

Here is my proposed wording:

Cruise's family spent part of his childhood in Canada. The Mapother family then moved to the Ottawa suburb of Beacon Hill so that Cruise's father could take a position as a defense consultant with the Canadian Armed Forces. There, Cruise attended Robert Hopkins Public School for grades four to five and Henry Munro Middle School for grade six, both part of the Carleton Board of Education. Robert Hopkins was where Cruise first became involved in drama, under the tutelage of George Steinburg. The first play he participated in was called IT, in which Cruise, Michael de Waal and four others played "Good" while Greg Orchard played the "Evil IT". The play met much acclaim, with Cruise and the others touring various schools and a drama festival in the Ottawa area. At Henry Munro he was active in athletics, playing floor hockey almost every night, showing himself to be a ruthless player, and eventually chipping his front tooth. In the game British bulldogs, he then lost his newly capped tooth and hurt his knee. Cruise was bullied regularly in the 15 different schools he attended in 12 years. When Cruise was twelve, his mother left his father, taking Cruise and his sisters with her. PeanutIsland (talk) 14:51, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

We need sources to back up your claims.--MrIndustry (talk) 18:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

An already referenced link agrees with one of my main assertions which is that Tom's initial drama was at Robert Hopkins. At the drama festival referenced we put on IT. The festival was a single evening held at Sir Robert Borden High School. I have changed the number in this play to 7 which was my recollection but I wasn't sure enough to change it. However, the Citizen article agrees with this.

I have found another reference that confirms this as well. http://i.usatoday.net/life/books/tom_cruise_excerpt.pdf. If you look at page 9 of this document there is a paragraph on the play and how well it was received at the drama festival. This paragraph also confirms my assertion that Tom's first year in Ottawa was grade 4 as the it indicates the festival was at the end of his first year in Ottawa and that it was 1972. This reference also confirms there were 7 of us in the play.

Unfortunately I do not have a reference that confirms that Greg Orchard (i.e. me) played the "Evil IT". I suspect if you asked Tom or Michael de Wall they would just be able to tell you that it wasn't them. You will either have to take my word on this or remove it.

Looking for references I see that the current, incorrect statements have propagated all over the place! — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeanutIsland (talk • contribs)

LGBT Project

Should there be an LGBT template at the top of the talk page? It doesn't seem like it since there's no evidence that he's gay and he likes to sue over this. Acoma Magic (talk) 01:19, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. The only reason I can think for the project template to be there is because he sued people who said he was gay. The template doesn't mean that anybody thinks he's gay, just at least one editor in the LGBT project thinks this article falls within the scope of their project. I personally don't think the template needs to stay, but let's wait a day or two and see if anybody objects to its removal. ~Adjwilley (talk) 01:43, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't care either way. I do think, though, that it's up to the members of any given Wikiproject to determine which articles fall within the sphere of interest of that project. Perhaps opening a discussion at the project's talk page would be the appropriate next step. Fat&Happy (talk) 02:47, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I already left a note on the project talk page notifying them of this discussion. ~Adjwilley (talk) 03:21, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I think it should be removed.--MrIndustry (talk) 05:20, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Include. A project is there to offer specialist help in their area(s). Cruise has a very long history of gay rumors, and him contesting these rumors. The wiki project is there to help resolve common questions how to resolve these issues and inform in these areas. The only reason to exclude them is a ridiculous assumption that LGBT-ness is contagious in the cyberphere. Insomesia (talk) 08:19, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how the project could offer any specialist help in this case. I don't think the history is very long, there's just a medium length paragraph with the few lawsuits made. That's true, but it's not going to be required in this case. It's more so that the inner workings of Wikipedia, rather than just the article content, is being reported in the media. Having an LGBT flag at the top of talk could possibly cause some problems. Acoma Magic (talk) 11:21, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Please provide any evidence that a project tag causes harm to those who make their way to this page.

• Exclude per my comments above. Acoma Magic (talk) 11:21, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
• Include if the reasoning for removal is that he isn't gay or threatened to sue. The LGBT project covers plenty of people who aren't gay, so there is no call to exclude him based on his being straight, and WP is not at legal risk. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 12:59, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

The main reasoning is that he has very little connection to anything LGBT. Acoma Magic (talk) 13:02, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

That is entirely up to the WikiProject's members to decide. As Fat&Happy noted above, a WikiProject sets its own scope: "WikiProjects have sole and absolute authority to define their scopes: A group of editors cannot be forced to support any article that they do not wish to support, or prohibited from supporting any article that they wish to support."--Trystan (talk) 14:02, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

The policy has a banner that says occasional exceptions may apply. Also, I don't think strong objections could come from the editors in the project anyway, only a preference for keeping it in the project. This is the main guideline and it's certainly not absolute authority. The possibility of reports in the media snowballing into lawyer action or even just cease and desist letters seems like a good case for an exception. I'm not claiming that it's a strong chance, but that it's enough to remove it. Acoma Magic (talk) 14:37, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

There is no legal issue here, it's a project tag, nothing more. Insomesia (talk) 23:48, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Exclude he's never done anything LGBT oriented, just because he's speculated as gay doesn't mean he needs this category listed.--MrIndustry (talk) 23:58, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

It's not a category, merely an expression of interest in the article by an independent group of editors. If you convince the members of the WikiProject that the article isn't worthy of their interest and they choose to remove it themselves, that's one thing (though Insomesia sets out a good argument over why they might be interested above.) But the relevant guideline states "...if a WikiProject says that an article is within their scope, then you may not force them to remove the banner. No editor may prohibit a group of editors from showing their interest in an article," (bold in original), which is fairly unequivocal.

To be clear, we aren't talking about whether we personally would classify this article within the WikiProject's scope, but whether we should step in and prohibit the WikiProject's members from simply expressing interest in the article, based entirely on the vague and extraordinarily remote possibility of a legal action that could hypothetically be based on someone completely misunderstanding what the WikiProject tag means. That is very flimsy grounds to start curtailing the freedom of a group of editors to organize their project as they see fit.--Trystan (talk) 02:18, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Exceptions can be made according to the template at the top of the policy. Obviously nobody (I hope) wants to force a delisting against their wishes but the banner was placed by just one editor who may not have even been a member. So since Tom Cruise has very little to do with anything LGBT then there may not even be much opposition from them anyway. Also, who's to decide whether the project wants to include it or not? There are hundreds of members. Acoma Magic (talk) 02:58, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

We aren't going to start telling Wikiprojects that they can't use their tag and decide which articles to help collaborate on. As noted above - "...if a WikiProject says that an article is within their scope, then you may not force them to remove the banner. No editor may prohibit a group of editors from showing their interest in an article." Reasonable people can disagree but this issue has come up with other projects so there is a statement explicitly addressing the point. I think we may be done here as the concerns have been noted and answered. Insomesia (talk) 00:22, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

That wasn't a reply to anything I said. Acoma Magic (talk) 00:33, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Given the *huge* amount of press about Cruise's possibly being gay (Google News has dozens within the past week), I (as a member of the LGBT WikiProject) believe he's "of interest" to the project. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think any of them are reliable sources for anything. Acoma Magic (talk) 00:35, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

This has been covered in mainstream media, worldwide, by reliable sources as noted above. That he has had gay rumors is a well-known fact. For instance [MSNBC, [Rome News-Tribune], and Fox News. What his actually sexuality is remains his business but the rumors of gayness themselves have risen to a notable level. Insomesia (talk) 00:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

It's rare for a celebrity to not be accused of being gay. There's also no evidence that this person is gay which further reduces the relevance of Cruise being in the LGBT Project. Acoma Magic (talk) 01:25, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Again, that's not the issue. he is the subject of perennial gay rumors, which themselves are notable, and the article already discusses his lawsuits over this very issue. The tag is staying per guidelines. Insomesia (talk) 01:40, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I already addressed that. Only one editor added it to the LGBT Project, that editor may not have even been a member, we don't know if the project opposes removing it, and the policy states that exceptions can be made. Acoma Magic (talk) 01:43, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

• Exclude Categories regarding sexual orientation should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the orientation in question. See WP:BLPCAT. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
  • You are mistaken. This is only about a Wikiproject banner, which requires no self-declaration, or even sourcing to be used. A category does, but not a project banner. Insomesia (talk) 00:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
• Exclude - sexual orientation categories should not be used unless the subject has publicly identified themselves with the orientation in question per WP:BLPCAT. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:57, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
  • You are mistaken. This is only about a Wikiproject banner, which requires no self-declaration, or even sourcing to be used. A category does, but not a project banner. Insomesia (talk) 00:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
• Exclude. Insomesia is correct to point out that this is not about categories but, in his public life at least, Cruise is not sufficiently identified with lesbian, bacon and tomato issues to warrant a banner on the talkpage. Also Cruise is a scientologiser, which means he is not allowed to be gay, although he is empowered to authorise the execution of gay people through the subliminal voices in the TV set. Formerip (talk) 01:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
  • That's not how project tags work and please be careful as to not delete other editors' comments. Insomesia (talk) 01:40, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Kettle, meet pot. That was my comment you inadvertently removed at the end. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:53, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

• Comment: Why are non-members voting on this WikiProject's scope? It is nonsensical for editors who are not involved in the WikiProject to tell its membership what they are and are not interested in. As the relevant guideline cited above clearly states, they have a clear right to determine their own scope. If we are voting on whether to force this particular WikiProject to limit its scope, that's a drastic move with significant repurcussions, and needs a much more explicit proposal and a clear rationale for doing so. Also, could one of the above editors citing BLPCAT please explain how it could apply here? BLPCAT deals with descriptive category labels, which are rightly applied cautiously to BLPs. A WikiProject tag is not in any way a category, merely an expression of interest by an independent group of editors.--Trystan (talk) 03:55, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Because the project member assume they can do what they want on Wikipedia does make it so. The project is overstepping its bounds and breaking some fundamental WP:BLP issues at the heart of all biographies. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:55, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Again, how could an expression of interest in the article violate BLP, since it makes no comment whatsoever on the article's subject? It's not about letting them do whatever they want, but about treating that one WikiProject banner as so uniquely poisnous that it needs special restrictions imposed on its use - restrictions not imposed on any other WikiProject, which are given freedom to determine their scope. A change that fundamental should be made to the guideline first, so that it is clear what principle is being applied.--Trystan (talk) 13:46, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

• Exclude WP:BLPCAT: "Categories regarding religious beliefs or sexual orientation should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs or sexual orientation are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources." He neither self-identifies as such and the subject's sexual orientation is relevant to his public life or notability. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:06, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
• Exclude -- the tag is plainly inappropriate. I'd love nothing more than for one of his wives (say, a future one) to get the impression that he's gay and be diverted to me instead as a result of seeing the banner here (yes, I know...), but this is a pretty obvious BLP call. If members of the LGBT project want to drum up interest in this article, they can use the talk page of that project; a banner here is not necessary for that purpose. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 06:50, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
• Include. This is ridiculous. WP:BLPCAT doesn't even apply here, and a WikiProject can't be told what they should and shouldn't tag with their banner. No WikiProject can be, which was recently discussed at WP:MED and made explicitly clear there as well. The banner is not categorizing Cruise as gay, bisexual or transgender. It is only placing him within the scope of the LGBT project -- meaning articles that may be in need of their attention. This is done for anyone with a lot of gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender content discussing them. Sometimes for people with only a little bit or just a decent amount discussing them. For example, Cher and Madonna aren't gay either, as far as we know, but they are also tagged as part of this project's scope. And before anyone says, "Oh, but Madonna has had same-sex sexual contact," I point you to the fact that, per WP:BLPCAT (the actual way it is supposed to be used), she is not categorized as lesbian or bisexual. So stop this silliness of trying to dictate what this project can tag with its banner. If Tom Cruise, with the abundance of content discussing him in a gay light, can't be tagged with this banner, then no straight person, even straight LGBT activists, can be. 217.147.94.149 (talk) 07:56, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
• Comment As IP 217 and Trystan say above, WP:BLPCAT does not apply here, it applies to the categories listed at the bottom of the article page. The LGBT Wikiproject tag does not categorize Tom Cruise as a LGBT individual or even being related to LGBT issues. Note that Wikiprojects Kentucky and Louisville are listed here. Cruise was born in NY, and neither 'Kentucky' nor 'Louisville' can be found in his article. But again, as another editor has noted above, it's up to the Wikiproject to decide if they want the tag placed, not for us. Jonathanfu (talk) 08:11, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

• Note. I've unarchived the discussion, because I don't think the close rationale given (that WP:PROJGUIDE#OWN is the only relevant consideration here) can be correct. Policies trump guidelines and WP:BLP is a relevant policy to consider. Formerip (talk) 16:28, 29 August 2012 (UTC)