User talk:Doncram

(e) as of Dec2010 as of Dec2014

The Gauntlet of Peace Prize

The Gauntlet of Peace Prize

Very amusing, thanks! That was from editor Carptrash. --doncram 16:09, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

law firms in Africa

Hi Doncram, just wondering if you have seen this: User:Purple Duke/sandbox2. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:41, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks!, Ottawahitech, for calling that to my attention. In this version now, it has not been edited by South African editor User:Purple Duke since 2012 besides by your addition just now, and it appears to be mainspace-ready or nearly so. To go to ALN (law firm) or ALN (South African law firm network) or the like (and to be mentioned at ALN (disambiguation). This relates to List of law firms in Africa (now inappropriately a redirect to a U.S.-only list, and there was Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of law firms and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of law firms (2nd nomination) in 2006, which reached perhaps-okay-then-but-fundamentally-wrong delete decision) and List of law firms in Uganda (and Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive840#Promoting_Ugandan_law firms and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of law firms in Uganda which deleted it) and individual-firm AFDs a couple years ago that you and I participated in. It's good to get back to this area, it was and is very under-developed. When I get a chance I will look into checking and perhaps updating this article and more, and/or please go ahead further yourself.

Hmm, to ensure credit is given where due, in getting the article into mainspace, should the sandbox itself be moved to mainspace? I think so, so that the creation and development in edit history is retained, but maybe administrative tool use is required to handle this right (to include just the relevant part of sandbox's edit history). I see the author previously used the sandbox to develop another article that they copy-pasted into mainspace and then blanked and reused it. Presumably they would have copy-pasted this too, when ready, to mainspace , and by their doing so would get the creation "credit" properly then. Hmm, I see the author did edit a South African law firm's page on one day in 2016, and in December 2015 was editing at Big Five (law firms) in South Africa. Perhaps we/I should try contacting them by email to see if they would make the move to mainspace, first, as that would require no technical adjustments and would be good in other ways.

How on earth did you find this? :) I am glad you keep doing good work like this, thanks again for bringing me back. Cheers, --doncram 16:51, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

I found it when i created the category to which it was already pre-added, amazing isn't it? More later... Ottawahitech (talk) 14:48, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Re your comment: to ensure credit is given where due (sorry for going off on a tangent):

A couple of days ago I discovered a dusty article about Halogen Software to which I added a few categories and since its talkpage was a redlink, went in to put some WikiProject banners on. To my surprise I saw that the talk page had been deleted as an orphaned talk page on 22 December 2007 which suggests that an earlier version of the article existed and was deleted on or before this date. The current article was created on 2 February 2016, so there must be at least one other version in the wiki-trash can. I can’t help but wonder if there is useful information that we are not seeing, let alone credit not given… Ottawahitech (talk) 14:14, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

FYI Found some more debris and posted about it on User_talk:Fayenatic_london#Category_:Indian_women_architects. Ottawahitech (talk) 15:05, 26 November 2016 (UTC)please ping me

FYI More on to ensure credit is given where due at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women#recreating deleted articles Ottawahitech (talk) 21:05, 30 December 2016 (UTC)please ping me

BBC 12-hour Editathon - large influx of new pages & drafts expected

New Page Reviewers are asked to be especially on the look out 08:00-20:00 UTC (that's local London time - check your USA and AUS times) on Thursday 8 December for new pages. The BBC together with Wikimedia UK is holding a large 12-hour editathon. Many new articles and drafts are expected. See BBC 100 Women 2016: How to join our edit-a-thon. Follow also on #100womenwiki, and please, don't bite the newbies :) (user:Kudpung for NPR. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:55, 7 December 2016 (UTC))

New Page Review - newsletter #2

Hello Doncram,

Please help reduce the New Page backlog

This is our second request. The backlog is still growing. Your help is needed now - just a few minutes each day.

Getting the tools we need

ONLY TWO DAYS LEFT TO VOTE

• Improve the tools: Vote here.
• Reduce your review load: Vote here

---

Sent to all New Page Reviewers. Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:54, 11 December 2016 (UTC) .

Crazy Horse, Stockholm

I'm not convinced that this is notable, but being the previous tenant of a place now rented by a local restaurant in the Vapiano chain doesn't really make it relevant as a redirect to Vapiano, as it wouldn't be mentioned there. It could possibly be redirected to Anna Sjödin, where it is mentioned. --Hegvald (talk) 12:59, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

Hello Doncram: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 15:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Kale Barnster?

		The Workers' Barnstar
		This user has shown great editing skills in improving articles related to Communism or Socialism.

For appreciating my remarks at Bound Together Bookstore Collective, thus moving radical politics forward by allowing humor as a part of it. after all, "if i can't laugh, i dont want to be a part of your revolution"-not attributed to H.L. Mencken.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 21:13, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, i like kale! Methinks you take credit for "makes us tools of the state look like slackers"? Yes, that is great, i obviously definitely appreciated it, though i had no idea you were the pundit. FYI, i was on a binge creating several entries for new Category:Anarchist bookstores, my little way of responding to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Red Emma's Bookstore Coffeehouse. :) --doncram 01:57, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's greetings!

Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year! Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas3}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Western false front architecture

Cite error.Xx236 (talk) 12:03, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays

Merry Christmas, Doncram! Or Season's Greetings or Happy Winter Solstice! As the year winds to a close, I would like to take a moment to recognize your hard work and offer heartfelt gratitude for all you do for Wikipedia. And for all the help you've thrown my way over the years. May this Holiday Season bring you nothing but joy, health and prosperity. Onel5969 TT me 23:49, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York)

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 07:04, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Resolved by an editor removing the Speedy Deletion tag, after I contested the suggestion at Talk:Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York) and I added some material to the article. --doncram 20:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Best Wishes

Dream Garden by Maxfield Parrish & Louis Comfort Tiffany

doncram,

I wish you the best this holiday season.

May the new year bring you nearer to your dreams.

BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 00:47, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon!

Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:02, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This message was sent as a courtesy reminder to all active members of the Military History WikiProject.

Editor of the Week seeking nominations (and a new facilitator)

The Editor of the Week initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly Editor of the Week award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The response from the honorees has been enthusiastic and thankful.

The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations?

Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by submitting your nomination for Editor of the Week today!

In addition, the WikiProject is seeking a new facilitator/coordinator to handle the logistics of the award. Please contact L235 if you are interested in helping with the logistics of running the award in any capacity. Remove your name from here to unsubscribe from further EotW-related messages. Thanks, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:19, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Your draft article, User:Doncram/Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 16:53, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Before I got this notice, the draft-space article was deleted 21 minutes later, at 17:14. Frankly that was rather too abruptly done, when it is just a matter of a dormant draft article. If I recall correctly, it is about a former Carnegie library in which IMO makes it marginally notable, which has further been repurposed into a literacy center / community center which also IMO makes it marginally notable, although it is not listed on any historic register. However, I also recall that I had not found much about it online, and the draft article wasn't particularly good yet, despite the fact it has some potential as a valid Wikipedia topic. Requesting, by this ping to User:Sphilbrick, could it be restored, please, to my userspace (with edit history intact), at User:Doncram/Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning? I might (or might not) get around to developing it further, perhaps not as a separate article but incorporating it in a list-article of literacy centers which seemed to be needed (related to some AFD(s) about a different literacy center or two). --doncram 20:51, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

It would reasonable to have, corresponding to Category:Organizations promoting literacy, a List of organizations promoting literacy, which could include mention of this one, including mention that it is hosted in a former Carnegie library. --doncram 21:02, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Mexico merges/Feryeah13

Your comment and a look at contributions helped me to find that there are more redundant articles, most of which appear to be very poor translations from eswiki, such as Ahualulco Del Sonido 13, San Luis Potosi to Ahualulco. Some have been redirected. Others that were new to enwiki remain but in horrendous condition. This UAEH one was among the better articles. Raymie (t • c) 06:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

TNT

You have now made this comment twice here and here. This is a FRINGE position and if you really believe it you should take me to ANI for my nomination here and followup here. In fact I urge you to do that. Jytdog (talk) 22:21, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Great, you want to have a knock-down drag-out fight. Seems consistent with calls for wp:TNT being wp:disruption. Of course wp:TNT is an essay, not a guideline or policy. I suppose it would be good to counter it with another essay, perhaps wp:BlowUpTNT or wp:TNTTNT? :) --doncram 22:40, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Actually, thank you for the inspiration. Created that essay, up to this version as of now. Funny that two calls for TNT and my response within Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pressure point should be invoked; that AFD was closed "Keep". --doncram 01:51, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

No, I don't want to have a big fight but you are accusing me of being disruptive and calling for drastic action on the basis of my !vote, which basically sucks. The fact that an AfD went your way is not excuse for that kind of behavior toward other editors. I recommend you knock it off. Jytdog (talk) 02:03, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Hey, I am sorry that you got the impression that my comment was directed at you. In one of the two articles, i.e. at the Nyala Rinpoche article, you did not invoke TNT, so my little tirade there was not about you at all. I also have not been following you and I have no idea if you use the TNT argument elsewhere. FYI, i have made approximately the same little speech in a bunch of AFDs, maybe a dozen or more. It's not just my thinking; I have seen it expressed more strongly by others. However, given your reaction I will worry if my statements are too strong and will consider if I should indeed "knock it off". I don't want to make Wikipedia a lousy experience for anyone. On the other hand, I happen to think that AFDs in general / usually / often are lousy experiences for the contributors whose work is being nominated for deletion, and I think it is important to stop the madness. Maybe the distinction I need to make is to be sure to call the act of citing TNT bad, or call the TNT reasoning fallacious, or otherwise be clear that I am not attacking a person who invoked the TNT argument (which does exist as an argument that everyone has seen used). I will pay attention to this. Thank you for the feedback. --doncram 02:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Chief Actuary

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Chief Actuary".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:03, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Graduate Students Association

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Graduate Students Association".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:23, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of charitable nonprofits in the United States

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of charitable nonprofits in the United States".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:48, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of female fashion photographers

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of female fashion photographers".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:48, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of women artists

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of women artists".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:49, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:The Middletown Press

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "The Middletown Press".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 03:08, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

FYI, rather than delete this draft article I decided to adopt it. It is now at User:Grondemar/Drafts/The Middletown Press. –Grondemar 06:02, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

It was developed some by Grondemar I think, and I moved it to mainspace The Middletown Press and they agreed that was okay. --doncram 19:31, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Hacienda San Francisco

There's some "crap" at the bottom of the article. I'm not sure what template you were trying to do, so I didn't fix it. Also, there is a CS1 error in one of the refs. Not sure if you can see it. Add to your .css file:

/* Show all CS1 errors */
.citation-comment 
{ display: inline !important; }

Bgwhite (talk) 06:50, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

The stray bits at the article got removed.

I don't know what/where is my ".css file", however. Hmm, wp:CSS leads to Help:User style. Hmm, i think this is about creating a file at User:Doncram/vector.css, okay will try that. --doncram 21:57, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay, creating that works. Now at the Hacienda San Francisco article, the NRHP document reference shows "CS1 maint: Multiple names: authors list". --doncram 22:01, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Dashes between person names in house names

Re this edit, I remain uncertain on how to handle this common redlink situation. I agree with your point, that it's more likely that a new article will be named with hyphens between names, since most editors aren't really very aware of dashes and such. On the other hand, it seems wrong to leave that malstyled version visible, especially alongside the dash-fixed ones. I've got the same problem in some other such lists. Unclear how to proceed; wouldn't it be nice to have an advance directive for redirects or moves or something? Dicklyon (talk) 04:39, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

I suspect it comes up almost exclusively with respect to places listed on the National Register, for those like you who want to proceed with replacing hyphens by dashes. The problem is you can't create a redirect from the hyphenated version to the dashed title, because a bot will delete the redirect. I wonder if there is any way the bot could be stopped, or if the relevant policy (that redirects to redlinks are not allowed) could be changed. But that would be quite the longshot.

One alternative is just to create the article at the hyphenated name and then move it, which I think is good because that creates the redlink and ensures all current and future intended links will work. However some editors at WikiProject NRHP will likely hate that, and it is possible some will hate you personally, and enough so to harass you and create hate/attack pages and open spurious ANI proceedings and so on, for years and years and years. :)

A less-good alternative would be for you to click on the hyphenated name, and then "what links here", to find all current inbound links, and go change those. Changing those is presumably something you want to do. But that doesn't stop people from creating the article at the hyphenated name and there being a disconnect, and for a possible duplicative article being created at the dashed title.

Another approach, applied since 2010 by me, at Talk:List of RHPs in OR, specifically at Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Oregon#NRHPs with ndash in title, is to create a worklist of all the pairs of two title versions, and monitor that, if/when one turns blue then make the move or create the necessary redirect. If you wanted to go with the worklist approach I would support that and take on the monitoring for years and years. --doncram 05:42, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

That last looks like a clever approach. And you create that from what? Names you find in existing lists? Just ones you've changed to en dashes? Dicklyon (talk) 05:40, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Here are the other redlink ones I've messed with recently:

[moved to central monitoring page -- doncram]

If you're volunteering to put these on your list and watch them, that's great, and I'll add to it if I do more. If not, I can make such a page to watch myself. These are from all different states, from disambig pages like Jackson House. Dicklyon (talk) 06:47, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

(ec) I don't think I have ever created a title using dashes, by moving or otherwise. I don't have an opinion about dashes vs. hyphens; my only wish is to maintain the elaborate system of disambiguation pages, NRHP list-articles, and related list-articles like List of Elks buildings and List of Presbyterian churches in the United States, which gets messed up if any "outsider" starts changing redlink topic names. :)

To answer directly: From "names in existing lists", I guess, starting with ones where I noticed the lists of NRHP places being edited by someone to use the en dashes. Then I looked further to other NRHP place lists in the area where I could find hyphenated titles which they would likely become an issue. And I may have found more on related disambiguation pages, which are lists of sorts, too. The goal is to list article pairings where a MOS enthusiast either has already changed, or is likely to change, one of the redlinks. If these are listed and monitored, we can fix the damage done, in effect. Honestly, it causes work and it doesn't help any readers, if redlinks are changed to use dashes rather than hyphens, IMO. It does help if you create the articles, and make the redirect from hyphen to dash forms. But you or some other enthusiast aren't completely wrong and cannot be stopped from changing redlinks without making articles as far as I know, so I figure the best thing is if you make the work lighter by contributing to a common monitoring list whenever you do make such a change.

Okay, I have gone and set up a monitoring page at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Hyphens vs. dashes issues. And announced this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#hyphen vs. dash issue monitoring. --doncram 07:18, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Postal templates

I have commented on the deletion of {{List of United States Post Offices}} but apropos of the {{Postage stamps of the United States}} template I have done a lot of work slowly reorganising it in a personal sandbox and would appreciate your comments. If it is worth keeping I think something like this structure is what is needed and a useful replacement for the current mess. Related items are grouped together in a sensible way that stamp collectors or postal historians think though it still needs some work but I'm not going any further just yet. In this instance there no single list or category that contains them all. ww2censor (talk) 23:56, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Dedicated content people do their thing in solitude?

Hi Doncram, As one of the best content creators around, I wonder if you have the time to comment on the subject dedicated content people do their thing in solitude? I would be curious to find your take on it. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 00:36, 20 January 2017 (UTC)please ping me

When an IMDB link appears

...only as an External link, and not in any way tied explicitly to the content of an article, in particular, a BLP article that is otherwise completely devoid of sources, the appropriate tag is not the IMDB tag, but rather the BLP unreferenced tag. Tags are to be as specific as possible, and External links, per WP:VERIFY, are not citations or references. Moreover, (i) the BLP ureferenced tag posts articles devoid of citations in places where they might get the attention they need to have the WP:VERIFY violation dealt with, and (ii) it presents, within the tag, links to tools that can help follow-on editors find sources for the unsourced article material. That is, the unreferenced tag is both more accurate and appropriate, but it is also more helpful to editors coming to the article. Cheers, Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:38, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Raburn-Casteel House

Not sure what you meant with: It has a [[single-pen rear ell attached to the original house. Bgwhite (talk) 08:35, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for inquiring. An "ell" is an addition that makes the building L-shaped. A single pen is a log cabin unit: a rectangle of four log walls. I revised it to to be less jargon-y: "a single pen addition attached to the rear of the original house". --doncram 14:54, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Friendship Baptist Church (Washington, D.C.)

Since you started the article, let me ask you something. This is what the church building looks like now. It's an event space called Blind Whino Arts Club. Do you think I should swap my old 2008 photo for the new one, and if so, is the mural considered artwork that needs to have a fair use license? I'm not sure about this one. The description in these photos say it was commissioned. APK whisper in my ear 06:01, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi, glad you're improving that. Funny name of current enterprise. About murals, I rather think the artist/owner is putting it out there for the world to see and usually would be happy for images of it to be spread further, but probably technically it is copyrighted and commons editors would get around to seeing it deleted, if you upload a photo specifically displaying it. Ideally you'd contact them and get permission released, by a wp:OTRS request. Although also in a wide-angle shot from farther away, the entire mural might be covered, as long as it doesn't seem to be the focus of the shot. For Bound Together Bookstore Collective in San Francisco, its mural of anarchist authors is notable, I just link to photo(s) of it. --doncram 15:35, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

MOTD

A good message relating to personal attacks is this, which i happened to come across. --doncram 15:35, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

How ironic that you would post that link less than an hour after writing an edit summary that says "restore content deleted during past harassment" at Boyd-Wilson Farm. Those dates were removed, as part of the general cleanup of that article, because the farm was not "built" in those years, not to 'harass' you. Maybe you should read that link again a few times before the next time you feel like insulting a fellow editor in a way that can never be taken back. Station1 (talk) 07:58, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

When I revisited that article to expand it with NRHP nomination document that is now available online (or it was yesterday, while today the NPS website is not working for me), yes, I was irritated to be reminded that content was deleted way back when. I am not sure of your point, is it that the farm property has always existed as land, and that a "built" date can never be valid? The farmhouse, the main feature of the property was indeed built at several dates. Watch Talk:Boyd-Wilson Farm later when I have accessed the NRHP document again. --doncram 15:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Later: the NRHP document is currently available here and its photos here. The text includes "The farmhouse has several distinct periods of construction, circa 1840, circa 1884, circa 1920, and 1976." This text was not available during the old contention. I had direct program access to my own downloaded copy of the NRIS database which provided at least the circa 1840, circa 1884, circa 1920 dates, while other editors could not see those dates (because they did not download the data and had access only to an interface which displayed just "1840"). I think that back then I may have perceived the deletion of those dates as insulting, as editors were disputing unreasonably IMO and were disbelieving me as if I were making stuff up, and I think i perceived it that way yesterday when I noticed the deletion had happened back then. And now the dates are specifically supported in a document that all can see. Station1, I don't particularly recall your involvement in it, and I don't think I made anything like a personal attack against you by referencing "harassment" in an edit summary. There was in fact a general pattern of editing that I certainly experienced as harassment that went on for months, and was covered in multiple dispute resolution processes eventually. Maybe/probably I shouldn't have mentioned it, but it was like a "harrumph" moment: see here is documentation that I was right after all. If it was your edit which removed the dates and your point was the technical one that land doesn't have "built" dates, I could respect that, but that was not clear, then or now. The atmosphere back then did not lend itself to rational discussion. If you had a point back then that I was making up stuff, then the NRHP nomination document should disprove that for you. If there's content issue now, let's take that to Talk:Boyd-Wilson Farm. --doncram 22:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

The point is only that personal attacks have no place on WP, and most especially in edit summaries, where they cannot be easily deleted. The person insulted doesn't appreciate it, and, as the "good message" you linked to notes, it mostly makes you look bad. When you get irritated, why not take a breath and read that link a few times before saving? Ask yourself if the person who changed this to this 4 months after your last edit is really just trying to harass you or might be trying to improve the article. Why not just write "added dates to infobox" as an edit summary, instead of anything personal, even if you're right? Everyone will be better off. Station1 (talk) 06:49, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

NPS Redirect

You should have an email from them by now. If you have more questions I should be able to help you. Zero Serenity ^{(talk - contributions)} 22:34, 31 January 2017 (UTC) Zero Serenity ^{(talk - contributions)} 22:34, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Dead link

Hi , the links I marked as dead are coming up as http1 not available. Am using an ipad, please advise Atlantic306 (talk)

If they are dead it is temporary outage that will not last. All that I reverted were references to the NRIS database, which is linked from something like 50,000 articles. --doncram 02:40, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

I think its been dead for at least a week, at least on my ipadAtlantic306 (talk) 02:44, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Hmm. Could have to do with changes at National Park Service noted in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#NPS down, which I thought were all fixed. Can you mention your evidence there, please? --doncram 02:50, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

will do Atlantic306 (talk) 02:53, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.2

Hello Doncram,

A HUGE backlog

We now have 804 New Page Reviewers!
Most of us requested the user right at PERM, expressing a wish to be able to do something about the huge backlog, but the chart on the right does not demonstrate any changes to the pre-user-right levels of October.

Hitting 17,000 soon

The backlog is still steadily growing at a rate of 150 a day or 4,650 a month. Only 20 reviews a day by each reviewer over the next few days would bring the backlog down to a managable level and the daily input can then be processed by each reviewer doing only 2 or 3 reviews a day - that's about 5 minutes work!
It didn't work in time to relax for the Xmas/New Year holidays. Let's see if we can achieve our goal before Easter, otherwise by Thanksgiving it will be closer to 70,000.

Second set of eyes

Remember that we are the only guardians of quality of new articles, we alone have to ensure that pages are being correctly tagged by non-Reviewer patrollers and that new authors are not being bitten.

Abuse

This is even more important and extra vigilance is required considering Orangemoody, and

1. this very recent case of paid advertising by a Reviewer resulting in a community ban.
2. this case in January of paid advertising by a Reviewer, also resulting in a community ban.
3. This Reviewer is indefinitely blocked for sockpuppetry.

Coordinator election

Kudpung is stepping down after 6 years as unofficial coordinator of New Page Patrolling/Reviewing. There is enough work for two people and two coords are now required. Details are at NPR Coordinators; nominate someone or nominate yourself. Date for the actual suffrage will be published later.

---

Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:11, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems Advice: Copyright Violation; Publication ‘The Isle of Man (Pevensey Island Guides)’ by Trevor Kneale

Welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contributions. I am glad to see that you are discussing a topic. However, as a general rule, talk pages such as Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems are for discussion related to improving the article, not general discussion about the topic or unrelated topics. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. Thank you.

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Your recent talk page comments were not added to the bottom of the page. New discussion page messages and topics should always be added to the bottom. Your message may have been moved. In the future you can use the "New section" link in the top right. For more details see the talk page guidelines. Thank you. agljones(talk)19:24, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

This relates to List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course and specifically to the latest related dispute at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems#Advice: Copyright Violation; Publication ‘The Isle of Man (Pevensey Island Guides)’ by Trevor Kneale. --doncram 19:30, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Please refrain from using talk pages such as Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems for general discussion of the topic or other unrelated topics. They are for discussion related to improving the article; not for use as a forum or chat room. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. See here for more information. agljones(talk)22:03, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to use talk pages for inappropriate discussion, as you did at Talk:List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course, you may be blocked from editing. Wikipedia requires that editors to "....Comment on content, not on the contributor" without referring to meta discussions and avoid posting the same thread in multiple talk pages. WP:MULTI It is also advised to follow the relevant BRD discussion and not bypass or undercut the same discussion with additional new sections to avoid hatting policy. WP:HAT, WP:FORUMSHOP Deal with facts rather than non sequitur and rhetorical questions WP:TALK#FACTS when in particular the same BRD discussion has already provided the information. Also, more consideration should be shown to editors that may require time to respond to a talk:page comments to check facts and sources. WP:TALK#USEagljones(talk)10:53, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Warner Robins Depot

Warner Robins Depot is on my photo list, the next time I'm up that way. Probably by March 20. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 22:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Reviewed!

Hi, I've reviewed the following articles which you created:

• Hawkinsville Commercial and Industrial Historic District
• Monroe County Courthouse (Forsyth, Georgia)
• Canadaway Creek
• U.S. Virgin Islands Governor's Mansion
• Dawson County Jail
• Green County Courthouse
• Left Bank Books.

I've done minor copyedits on most of them and put a couple of {{elucidate}} in where necessary. Other than that, they're all good.
Thanks for your contributions! DrStrauss talk 15:09, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Neighborhood signage

On the Harvard Heights, Los Angeles talk page, you had written: "pretty convincing evidence is information about signs being posted which promulgate what the boundaries are. We should not ignore the knowledge of locally-informed persons-on-the-spot." Is there a specific wikipedia rule that states that? Please advise.Phatblackmama (talk) 19:29, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review-Patrolling: Coordinator elections

Your last chance to nominate yourself or any New Page Reviewer, See Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination. Elections begin Monday 20 February 23:59 UTC. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Isle of Man TT Races.

Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I noticed that a recent edit of yours to the page Isle of Man TT has an edit summary that appears to be inaccurate or inappropriate. The summaries are helpful to people browsing an article's history, so it is important that you use edit summaries that accurately tell other editors what you did. Feel free to use the sandbox to make test edits. Thank you.
It may not have been your intention, but one of your edits, specifically one that you made on Isle of Man TT, may have introduced material that some consider controversial. Due to this, your edits may have been reverted. When adding material that may be controversial, it is good practice to first discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them, to gain consensus over whether or not to include the text, phrasing, etc. If you believe that the information you added was correct, please initiate that discussion. Thank you.

agljones(talk)19:18, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.3

Hello Doncram,

Voting for coordinators has now begun HERE and will continue through/to 23:59 UTC Monday 06 March. Please be sure to vote. Any registered, confirmed editor can vote. Nominations are now closed.

Still a MASSIVE backlog

We now have 804 New Page Reviewers but despite numerous appeals for help, the backlog has NOT been significantly reduced.
If you asked for the New Page Reviewer right, please consider investing a bit of time - every little helps preventing spam and trash entering the mainspace and Google when the 'NO_INDEX' tags expire.

---

Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:35, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

March Madness 2017

G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:

• tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
• updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
• creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) & MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Brandywell, Isle of Man

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like you to assume good faith while interacting with other editors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Your recent talk page comments on Talk:Brandywell, Isle of Man were not added to the bottom of the page. New discussion page messages and topics should always be added to the bottom. Your message may have been moved. In the future you can use the "New section" link in the top right. For more details see the talk page guidelines. Thank you.

Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit you made to Talk:Brandywell, Isle of Man, did not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you.
agljones(talk)22:53, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continual disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. agljones(talk)20:12, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 10

Issue 10 of the WikiProject X newsletter is here!

This month, we discuss the new CollaborationKit extension. Here's an image as a teaser:

23:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Robert Selph Henry

Hello. Are you only interested in Southern mansions, or Southern history too? I've just created Robert Selph Henry (I think he may be related to Douglas Henry) and there are book reviews on JSTOR but I haven't had time to go through them yet. Are you interested in doing it please?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:34, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For creating so many articles on Georgia recently. Your efforts over the years are appreciated. Boleyn (talk) 18:26, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Curry Hill Plantation

A tag has been placed on Curry Hill Plantation requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

subject is a non-notable plantation

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. 2001:56A:F2C0:7B00:8DE7:641:B9CB:BF0E (talk) 07:42, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I happened to see this and I disagree with the decision of that IP, so I removed the speedy tag myself. NRHP listed locations are inherently notable in any reasonable interpretation of notability in the US. --Krelnik (talk) 12:17, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thansk for telling me about the NRHP articles! I do appreciate that you are interested in NRHP articles in Florida. I am willing to help you out and we can collaborate in the future. (Cass)

A page you started (Georgia Williams Nursing Home) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Georgia Williams Nursing Home, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Blythwood just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

I've added an extra source.

To reply, leave a comment on Blythwood's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Blythwood (talk) 02:54, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Discussion please

Please discuss what changes you are proposing beside I dont like it there you havent offered a reason to drop the street sorting on List of heritage places in Fremantle. Streets are also related to different precincts and some are in themselves heritage listed as such sorting by streets is a necessary function. Happy to see the addition of co-ordinates but please discuss rather than endless edit warring on the lists format you'd be surprised to learn that we are happy to consider changes in ways to enhance the article, but even the change you have made by combining the address and co-ordinates has damaged the usability of the list Gnangarra 14:35, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:Gnangarra, I appreciate your note, which is friendlier than reception there otherwise. I did come to there in response to other editors' concerns about the list-article, and I am obviously trying to improve it using available technology. Besides presentation order and sorting orders to improve upon, there's possible color-coding or otherwise designating the historic register levels and/or other categorizing of properties. It is a tad irritating to be denigrated there, when I do have experience that can help, but oh well.

I opened a new section at Talk:List of heritage places in Fremantle, without talking about the address number + street vs. "location" distinction. Maybe that can wait a little bit? I do recognize that there was some value to being able to sort by "street" before, although that wasn't the greatest. The streets themselves would be in alphabetical order, not grouping the closer ones together, and the sorting within each street would be out of order (the table was not set up to sort the address numbers along a street properly, I don't think). It would make sense to insert hidden sort-order-values into the table, as can be done (see Help:Sorting), to make the "Location" column sortable in some way (perhaps first by "area" then in some detail order that make sense to parade through, including going down each street at a time). I don't want to overload the discussion page there too quickly, but I do want to assure you that the "usability" (if you mean the sorting by street) can be restored and enhanced upon. --doncram 21:36, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Fremantle subjects

Re your edit at Drover's Wife

What is it to anyone ? - there happens to be a group of editors interested in Western Australian subjects and topics, and to query any one editor like this over common interests is trolling. The editor is interested in the subject as Toodyaypedia and Freopedia are 'live' on-going wikitown projects - I fail to see why someone needs to be queried as to their interest, or their involvement. More people are 'watching' the Fremantle subjects and articles than are involved in talk page discussions - so it goes JarrahTree 01:19, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

To keep it in one place, I reply to your similar comment at User talk:The Drover's Wife#huh? in this edit. --doncram 01:49, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

There is nothing to show that you have ever been 'on the ground' in Fremantle, some of us in western australia have to put up with endless and relentless geographically challenged misunderstandings on everything from deserts to perth's weather record - it is possible some aspects of your digging around fremantle city council online material could be the same as my tinkling with valparaiso chile ascensors (where I have actually been and have photos on commons), the sense of parsing online info and expecting to get to the same understanding as 'locals' can be different planets (I would not attempt from my western australian context attempt to play around with valporaiso's 'cerros' and their potential meaning and or functions without local context or assistance, and I generally never assume anything from anything online) - you may think in the english speaking world heritage mapping is universal - there are so many linguistic variables between general heritage practice and guidelines between the uk, us and australia. Wikipedia alone has some absolutely atrocious conflations of terms in some subject areas as to render a 'non-=us' bias so more difficult than you might imagine - the atlantic and pacific render some words and contexts un translatable - even in english... I was meant to be off the computer 2 hours ago - your explorations into fremantle leave me about to go to fremantle for a beer to work out how to forget the conbabulations into something for an online encyclopedia, not a never ending conversation about lists and boundaries... JarrahTree 02:11, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

I give up, the creator of the list has explained his position - I have no idea why, but he seems ok with the precincts that you have located and have suggested. I am now out of the discussion, apologies for the various tangents and what appear to have been pointless diversions JarrahTree 11:29, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

I have said that burb section are ok if the full list is expanded, still think that inclusion LGA register is important providing that there is more than just house, address but no further data. For the precincts of Victoria Quay, West End and Wray ave I can see arguements for it but that doesnt necessarily mean I would agree with those sub divisions at this stage. I still maintain that street name sorting is an important aspect that needs to be retained. I also have concern about the size of the resultant article and whether those within the Freo area that is East st(Swanbourne St), Hampton rd, Duoro Road, Ocean and river would be a better consolidation. Gnangarra 12:02, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Henry Howard (architect)

Perhaps you'll want to expand Henry Howard (architect)?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:06, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion

Hi, I've reviewed a lot of your articles and it's obvious you know what you're doing on here. Since you create a lot of articles, would you be interested in signing up to be autopatrolled? This would save time for new page reviewers since your articles wouldn't go on the review list. Requesting it is really simple - I just said what I'd written and that I thought it would help reduce the workload and that was it. Blythwood (talk) 00:02, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

My apologies, the tool I use to check new pages lists pages by autopatrolled users. Please ignore this! Blythwood (talk) 00:12, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Your contribution to First Territorial Capitol of Kansas

Hi doncram,

Yesterday you placed a great NRHP document in this article as a dangling citation, and I am just checking to see if you have plans to develop this article before I devour the link and go to work with it. I think that combined with the 1958 survey I attached earlier yesterday, there is some good stuff there to expand with. But I don't want to counter-edit you because it looks like you're the expert! :)

What I would love to see is the survey map that Jefferson Davis took with red lines on it that defined Fort Riley's boundary. Multiple sources say "East of Onemile Creek," was excluded from the base, but as your topographic map shows, much of the town WAS east of that creek, so I don't understand. Unless the line started at the mouth of the creek and ran along the railroad tracks to the northeast, your map makes it very confusing! I would love your input on this, even if you give me the green light to develop the article. Your plate appears to be more than full. Tireless, indeed!

Thanks! RM2KX.

P.S. Where are you from? Your Wikifootprints are all over America! RM2KX (in Central Missouri) (talk) 08:50, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Go ahead, please do exploit the NRHP reference to develop the article. I had taken note of a posting at wt:NRHP about the merger proposal there, and noticed there was no NRHP reference obtained yet, and thought I could help by adding it. Have at it, please!

Ah, yes, as my "Wikifootprints" suggests... yes, you have it right, i am from America. :) --doncram 14:03, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Charles Frederick Zimpel

You might want to expand Charles Frederick Zimpel. Also if you're able to find out if some of his buildings are still standing and possibly listed... Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 08:27, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Monticello and the University of Virginia

The article Monticello and the University of Virginia has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Article is a sentence long and the information is included in both articles.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Mooeena (talk) 13:01, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Montana Club

While reading this article about the Confederate Memorial Fountain (Helena, Montana), I came across a weird history regarding the Montana Club. The strange thing is the Salon article says it was built 130 years ago and designed by a renowned architect, but I don't see it at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana. Any idea what to make of it please?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:28, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Interesting about the Confederate memorial and about the unusual floor in the Montana Club/The Montana Club in Helena, Montana, too. The 1885-founded club is listed in List of gentlemen's clubs in the United States#Montana with two sources and is worthy of an article, especially with your Salon tidbit. [Down the street from the fountain there are white swastikas on a black tiled floor in the lobby of the Montana Club, a 130-year-old building. The floor was laid long before Nazis, but it got covered up during a renovation and was not rediscovered until about 10 years ago, at which time the decision was made by the Montana Historical Society to preserve the floor because of its age, and because it had been designed by a famous architect. But an explanatory sign was put up next to the building’s entrance, to alleviate the shock that most first-time visitors experience when they walk in.] It's not at all surprising to have an NRHP-eligible place not actually NRHP-listed, as many owners are suspicious/protective of their privacy and property rights, and not needing/interested in any tax benefits for renovations, and they will opt out of listing (which owners can do, even at the last minute after others' work has been done establishing NRHP-eligibility). Hmm, but it seems it is NRHP-listed within Helena Historic District (wikipedia article mentions it). The Montana Club's claim at its website "The Montana Club is the oldest, continuously-operating private club west of the Mississippi" seems dubious given info RE Hawaii one and 3 San Francisco ones at the list-article. Oh, architect of its 1905 building was Cass Gilbert, that is huge! (And interesting arson story, besides interesting story of Gilbert's design per history document linked from Mt Club page). Needs to be added to Cass Gilbert article, which does not currently mention it. Good catch! Will you start an article? DYK it? I will further develop at Helena Historic District article which currently cites 3 NRHP nomination documents but does not link to online copies. --doncram 21:09, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

I'll let you do it.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:48, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Here's a picture.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:38, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Do you think the NRHP listing is incomplete because the Placer Hotel is listed according to the description on Wikimedia Commons, but I don't see it at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana. I am pinging User:Montanabw, who added the description on Commons. This is regarding George H. Carsley.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Oops, I have just seen User:Montanabw's note that it is listed in the Helena Historic District (Helena, Montana). Is there a way to make this more obvious at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana though? If I couldn't find it, other editors are bound to be equally confused.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:01, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

By the way, this JSTOR article mentions the Montana Club.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:39, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

FWIW, the building is close to my office, let me know if you want a photo of the infamous floor and the sign. Also, if you ping User:KingJeff1970, he is well-positioned to get you any documents you might not otherwise be able to find (see his user page, self-explanatory). Also, I helped create the Helena Historic District Article and to do so at the time I had to go dig through paper copies of the original application, a task I hope not to need to repeat (with luck, it’s all online now…)— keep in mind the district has been expanded twice… there are dozens of conforming properties (I work in one of them). Be glad to answer any questions or help; my wiki time is a bit limited these days, but if you post to my talk page, it will ping my email. If someone wants to find a public domain street map, I can draw the lines to show the boundaries of the district… it’s large. Basically, most of the conforming buildings have their own signs posted on them to indicate they are part of the NRHP district… example File:Atlas Block sign.jpg. Montanabw^(talk) 02:38, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Montanabw so much for your having nicely developed the district article in 2013 and for helping out now! Yes the three NRHP documents (along with accompanying 20, 50, 44 photos) are available online now, and I just updated their references accordingly. Yes, it would be great if you could upload a few pics! I haven't done a DYK nomination in years but would be motivated to do so now....it would be great if you could get one or two detail pics that show just one or a few swastikas which might work well as small thumb photo in the DYK section on the Wikipedia main page. If it all comes together fast then it would be a good DYK. I don't promise too much timely effort myself though, so it might not, and let's not stress just to meet DYK deadline; the real point would be to support a nice new article. Other interior pictures would be more important perhaps. The Club's history document features one specific original table/desk that may now be in an office, which would be great to get a pic for, too.

Thanks Zigzig20s for going ahead and starting the Montana Club article. The 10th photo in the first NRHP document includes the Montana Club without labelling it (maybe it is across the street from the initial historic district?), and it is the subject of the 22nd photo in the second NRHP document. I'll add those references with mention of those photos to the Montana Club article. --doncram 03:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

As you all noticed, I took more photos of the area... all now in their own category on Commons. I wasn't able to get a shot of the 6th floor banquet room because they were having a meeting in there, the Rathskeller was closed, and my photo of the dining room bar was out of focus. But let me know if any of these would be worth another trip over there; the building is open odd hours sometimes; I was lucky to shoot the dining room when nothing was going on. Oh yeah, and it's also got some old steam tunnels under it where they allegedly used to smuggle in hookers from places like Big Dorothy's... plus there's a claim it's haunted [1], [2]. Montanabw^(talk) 03:11, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Would they let you take pictures of the tunnels?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:18, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Notice

Hello sir , here's a deletion discussion going on and you most likely would be interested in it as you once !voted a keep for it before it got re-listed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Okon_Goes_to_School Celestina007 (talk) 13:08, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Mount Saint Joseph Academy

You were completely right. I must have been looking at the old version of the article that was full of COPYVIO content. That content was later removed and I seem to have overlooked that important fact. Thanks for noticing. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:07, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Metter High School

The old Metter High School is not on highway 129 - it is 4 blocks to the west. That is probably where the new HS is. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 21:42, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

Hi Doncram. I patrolled one of your new article creations earlier, and was surprised to see your name pop up on the new page feed. Your user page has a box saying you're autopatrolled, but this (and my experience earlier) suggests you're not. I thought I should let you know. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:32, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, User:Cordless Larry, i didn't realize that old userbox was there, and I just removed it. Right, I am not autopatrolled, as a legacy from contention long ago. Twice over the years I asked for the status to be changed. It is fairly nonsensical in my case, but I think the policy/practice is that if you ask for your status to be changed, then it is denied because you asked for it. --doncram 22:46, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Note, i was pinged in this. --doncram 16:50, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

• I'm filing a request at WP:ARCA for clarification of whether or not you are still restricted, it should be live in just a few minutes. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:13, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

From this discussion here I thought you probably would rather have it back, so that's on me for assuming, When I denied it I was basing that on your user rights log, then I remembered I'd seen your name at WP:RESTRICT, where I've been doing a bit of reorganizing work, and went back and saw that this eventually went to arbcom, and "regular" admins don't like to do anything that might step on the toes of an arbcom decision. They tend to desysop admins who do stuff like that so we're a bit gunshy about it. I didn't mean to stir up any drama or anything and now I feel like I probably owe you an apology, so sorry if this was stressful or stirred up anything best left behind, that was certainly not my intention.

The listing at RESTRICT is a bit off, which led to the confusion on my end about the timeframe as well. My reasoning, for the record, was that since there was an arbcom restriction on you creating certain types of articles, that probably means your articles should be reviewed, whereas if there wasn't you should probably have it since you create so many. I probably should have also alerted you to the fact that another admin asked me about this at WT:PERM as he was looking into the request at the same time I was declining it, and we were just trying to figure out how to proceed. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:35, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining, including about your concern about stepping on toes and otherwise about your role. You're right, I was alarmed at an issue being raised at ARCA, and the immediate prospect of drama, over complicated stuff that new and old people do not need to engage in, besides the fact that I honestly think the arbitration committee sometimes has too much workload. Given your remarks, i found my way to Iyour discussion at wt:PERM. I appreciate your seeing that I could experience stress -- i suppose I do a bit if/when I go back into old horrible stuff, which your discussion there was going towards. I would have been happy to participate there if you had informed me, though, and I think your concern about stepping on toes could have been addressed. I was/am not up to ringing alarm bells and drama. Again I don't need auto-patrol, but I guess it is a hurdle that maybe should be crossed, and would fairly involve allaying concerns of PERM regulars (which I think can be done). How about coming back to this after May 6, at wt:PERM, to discuss quietly I hope. --doncram 04:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

I do not think such a request would have a quiet response anytime soon due to your return to some old behavior patterns discussed below. Jonathunder (talk) 13:49, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

ARCA archived

Beeblebrox's recent clarification request has been archived at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram#Clarification request: Doncram (April 2017). For the Arbitration Committee, Miniapolis 13:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hospital de San Carlos

I found significant coverage for a now closed hospital that was located in Spain which has the same name. Maybe the sentence can be changed and the article re-categorized SL93 (talk) 02:49, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Of course I mean if this hospital is found to be non-notable. SL93 (talk) 03:06, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Bots Newsletter, April 2017

Bots Newsletter, April 2017

Greetings! The BAG Newsletter is now the Bots Newsletter, per discussion. As such, we've subscribed all bot operators to the newsletter. You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future newsletters by adding/removing your name from this list. Highlights for this newsletter include: Arbcom Magioladitis ARBCOM case has closed. The remedies of the case include: Community encouraged to review common fixes Community encouraged to review policy on cosmetic edits Developers encouraged to improve AWB interface Bot approvals group encouraged to carefully review BRFA scope Reminders/Restrictions specific to Magioladitis BRFAs We currently have 27 open bot requests at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval, and could use your help processing! Discussions There are multiple ongoing discussions surrounding bot-related matters. In particular: RFC on COSMETICBOT Efforts at WP:CHECKWIKI to identify cosmetic fixes Requested move for the Bot Owners' Noticeboard A phabricator ticket T162685 has been made to have a "bots" tag, so issues related to bot frameworks can be tracked New things Several new things are around: A BAG Guide has been created (WP:BAGG, discussion). Users now have the option to hide AWB from their watchlists via a script (WP:HIDEAWB, discussion) The guidance on how to deal with bot issues has been overhauled (WP:BOTISSUE, discussion) The bot policy has been updated to clarify that bot operators are required to register accounts. (WP:BOTACCOUNT, discussion) Wikimania Wikimania 2017 is happening in Montreal, during 9–13 August. If you plan to attend, or give a talk, let us know! Thank you! edited by:Headbomb 11:35, 12 April 2017 (UTC) (You can unsubscribe from future newsletters by removing your name from this list.)

Statesboro

I want to get back to Statesboro to do the HDs soon - I'll get the one you just altered. Next on my list, though, is Emanuel County, GA. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 18:08, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Okay, Bubba73, gotcha. Thanks for noticing that I figured out a photo was wrong. I'll turn somewhat to National Register of Historic Places listings in Emanuel County, Georgia, then. For the (apparently demolished) Emanuel County Courthouse and Sheriff Department, there is note that "there is a historical marker", maybe you could get a pic of that marker for the article? Technically, historic markers are not necessarily public domain, but IMHO it is okay to post photos of them. --doncram 18:27, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

I was researching the places in the county and found that the old courthouse and sheriff office is gone (I'm the one who put in the note). I couldn't find it when I was there but I didn't have the right address. I read that the historical marker mentions the building and I spotted it in the satellite view. I'm planning the other things in the county, but it would be about 30 minutes out of my way to go over to Swainsboro to get the marker, so my plan is to swing back through Statesboro (Bulloch county) and get some of that. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 19:55, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

• Here is the marker for the old Emanuel Co. courthouse - it does NOT mention the building. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 20:03, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

• • Thanks! I'll remove the mention then at National Register of Historic Places listings in Emanuel County, Georgia. I have now begun articles for all there although i left several with "under construction" tags, in my "to do" category, and I won't forget them. About Twin City Historic District, I wonder if this one merits more systematic treatment, like by photos of each of the significant buildings which could be used to make a list-table. Despite what i incoherently started to say elsewhere, I think it is not obvious when a historic district merits that. This one is marginal, as the NRHP document provides some description of prominent properties but maybe not enough, and the district is maybe not exceptional. I suppose you'll see if you're inspired, or not, based on what you see there. I don't mind either way, if the non-table-ized list i'm developing in the article gets further developed or not. --doncram 02:00, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

I covered Emanuel County and did some in Statesboro today. I got a ton of photos of the Twin City HD - it is spread around. I'll try to upload them within a few days. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:01, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Great! I saw that you added some to the Emanuel County list-article. I need to come back to some of the linked pages.

About Thomas County, for sometime in the future, I have been plugging along and there are now 25 articles for its 40 places. Wright House (Thomasville, Georgia) is one where there is a photo from its front gate, but the place appears to be a gem based on its NRHP photos and really needs some closer-up photos. I hope you might remember to try to go knock at its door and take pictures of its doorway and its front porch columns. --doncram 20:58, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

An interesting thing about Emanuel County - I finished up the photos Saturday except for the demolished old courthouse. But that same day someone added a 1951 photo of it to its article!

I plan to get to Thomas and Grady sometime, and hopefully a county or two above them - but I can't do this on a day trip and I have no specific plans. I'm planning to do a day trip to Jenkins County on May 29. I'm planning to finish up McIntosh county sometime, but you have to take a ferry to Sapelo Island and hire a personal tour guide to get to the other places, so I don't know when I will do it. Also on my wish list is Baldwin county, which is also too far to do in a day trip. There are some in Baldwin that need photos and some that have only old B&W photos from decades ago. And then Muscogee County needs quite a few, but they are spread out in a large city, so it will probably take two nights on the road. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 02:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

The photo of the Wright house is beautiful, but I can get closeups of it from the street. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 02:30, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Jenkins County articles are in progress. Hey, stories shared about Birdsville Plantation in comments at Brian Brown's photos/blog site are amusing, including, apropos to past discussion: Missing the “no trespassing” sign, I walked down the dirt lane taking pictures and marveling at the history around me. I was run off, then chased by the owner. On the highway in front of the plantation I declared my ignorance , begged forgiveness, and was given a history lesson of the family during the civil war, and an explanation of the buildings on the site. Brian Brown himself had permission as did another visitor or two. Maybe you could/should write ahead, now, given that you have an expected visit date. --doncram 01:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	Thank you for creating so many articles on historic buildings - your hard work is appreciated. Boleyn (talk) 19:55, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

The Fairfax House

Hello. Are you able to identify if the Fairfax House on listed on the National Register of Historic Places listings in St. Mary Parish, Louisiana please? At first I thought it was the Grevemberg House, but apparently they are different houses.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:Zigzig20s, I'd be glad to help if i can. My browser does not want to open that Fairfax House webpage as it detects a threat there, so I don't know what details you have about it. However, Grevemberg House is in Franklin, Louisiana, and I see from browsing at the Louisiana database that there is a "Franklin Historic District" there, with 420(!) structures. I wonder if Fairfax House could be a contributing building in the district, hence it would be NRHP-listed and could even have an NRHP plaque on the building. Here is a map of the district. Usually it is okay to create a separate article about a contributing building in a historic district, if you have any substantial source about it. Here, the Franklin HD NRHP document PDF (the scanned parts provided by Louisiana, anyhow) doesn't specifically mention "Fairfax". (I find the PDF and map and photos at this Louisiana page for the Franklin HD. Does this help? Hmm, Franklin Historic District (Franklin, Louisiana) is currently a redlink, maybe i or you could create that article now. --doncram 20:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, @Zigzig20s:, a Yelp page says Fairfax House is at 99 Main St., and consistent with that Google maps shows a Fairfax House is on Main St. at Foster Ave, which is two blocks south of the end of the district. :( And from browsing to see the addresses of each of the St. Mary Parish listings in Franklin (select St. Mary Parish at Louisiana database), there are not any others which could be Fairfax House, as far as I can tell. So I expect it is a B&B that advertises itself as historic, but it is not in fact NRHP-listed. --doncram 21:15, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, but the NRHP document lists 100 Main St. and 101 Main St. as in the district, and a mile away from 99 Main St. Maybe there is supposed to be North Main St. and South Main St. and/or maybe there have been street renumberings. So I am no longer sure what's up. --doncram 21:38, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I first saw it on this website.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:07, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Joshua K. Hutchison House) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Joshua K. Hutchison House, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor SouthernNights just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Nice beginning article. Thanks for adding it to Wikipedia.

To reply, leave a comment on SouthernNights's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

SouthernNights (talk) 18:11, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Fixed tables' headers

Hi, Doncram

I read your post about the implementation of fixed tables' headers on Google Chrome and Apple Safari browsers, and i verified it. Thanks for your post. I've tried to answer you on my talk page on wikimedia but i couldn't. So thank you very much for your attention,

Regards, Dorivaldo de C. M. dos Santos (talk) 22:47, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

renaming courthouse articles (again)

You moved Douglas County Courthouse (Wisconsin) unnecessarily. Please review the discussion we had about that last July, where multiple editors told you not to do that. Jonathunder (talk) 23:44, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

You've been warned other times, too. If you want to edit war rather than discuss this, it will lead to a block. Jonathunder (talk) 00:00, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

I imagine you have been sitting on the edge of your seat for eight or nine months, just waiting to pounce in some way! You don't get to dictate what is done, naming-wise in Wikipedia, and threatening is not nice. Don't edit war, yourself.... you could have discussed the move and chose not to, rather moving back within one minute, rather than opening discussion, and causing an edit conflict for me when I saved the development of the article I was writing. Well, okay, I did just now review the previous discussion, and find that it ended when you did not reply to questions. You could have replied, you did not. You also could have developed the article and other ones; it happens I am proceeding at developing such articles and I just happened to get to this one to expand it a bit. My questions still stand, and it still makes sense to discuss the perceived issues. I would like you to reply here, please do. --doncram 00:10, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

No, I really expected when this was last discussed that you would not resume your disruptive page moves without discussing them first. Now you are edit warring on deletion discussions with other people. I don't know why you are doing this, but it must stop. Jonathunder (talk) 02:33, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Followup: To Jonathunder, yes there was a weird interaction about an inappropriate closure of a contested AFD discussion by an involved editor, which i brought up at wp:ANI, where multiple other editors agreed that the closure was against the rules for AFDs. I reverted the closure twice believing that they were just making a mistake and needed to be informed that the closure was against the rules, i.e. I thought it was uncontroversial to revert. When I realized they really were intentionally going against the rules and were edit warring to force their way (which i was not doing), I brought it to ANI, which is appropriate. This was a bizarre sequence and I think this has nothing to do with naming of disambiguation pages.

About page moves, I have certainly moved hundreds of pages, if not thousands, in my editing over the years, and that is okay to do, and I believe that most times my moves have improvements serving readers and that consensus has agreed with me. About the page where we disagree, I moved it as one step in improving the article, and I was bothered by your abrupt, immediate move back that caused edit conflict for me as I developed it. And I moved it again, which was later reverted by another editor. I see quoted elsewhere, that WP:RMUM (part of WP:RM) says "Anyone can be bold and move a page without discussing it first and gaining an explicit consensus on the talk page. If you consider such a move to be controversial, and the new title has not been in place for a long time, you may revert the move... Move wars are disruptive, so if you make a bold move and it is reverted, do not make the move again. Instead, follow the procedures laid out in § Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves." So, sure, I guess I should not have moved it back. I think it is somewhat extenuating that I was in fact developing the article, and relatedly was informed to a certain extent about the topic, i.e. I had some pseudo-expertise and temporarily felt some ownership (not in a bad way) over the topic. In general, I think that editors should defer somewhat to other editors who are actually developing a topic, although I am not saying that is enforceable. I personally feel that you were rude in your actions to make the move and to come here and make accusations against me. It is weird that you have declined to discuss the topic (you have declined to answer my questions to you) and yet you want me to hold to the outcome of the incomplete discussion. The way the discussion stands is that your view is contested/questioned, and you do not get to freeze development of Wikipedia until you deign to respond. I would like to call attention to what I assume is common ground between us, that we both do seek the development of Wikipedia coverage of NRHP-listed places. I hope you agree that development of articles, on which i spend by far the majority of my editing time in Wikipedia, is what matters most. In this specific case, it would be nice if you would acknowledge my modest development of the topic, although I don't really expect you to do so. --doncram 17:05, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

LibStar abruptly closing AFD

The following two sections relate to wp:ANI discussion that was archived at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive952#LibStar abruptly closing AFD. I find the editor's behavior odd; i twice reverted an AFD closure believing they were unaware of the rules for closing a contested AFD, only to discover they really were edit warring intentionally to get their way, and coming here to threaten me. I don't exactly agree with the ANI closure and some comments therein, where other editors note the closure was in fact against the rules and practice, yet they were inclined to let it go. However when to let a transgression slide is a matter of judgment, so I don't object too much, but the editor should be considered to be on notice. --doncram 17:17, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

your behavior

is bordering on WP:POINT, take it to deletion review if you are not happy. If you persist I will raise an WP:ANI. LibStar (talk) 02:16, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

AfD, ANI, etc.

I'm sorry to see that your dispute with LibStar has boiled over onto ANI. You've been a great help with saving the museum articles from deletion. Sometimes, there are so many of them at AfD it's hard to find time to uncover sources for them all. Thanks! Altamel (talk) 03:49, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

South Carolina mansion

Hi. Is this listed? Perhaps you could create an article?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:36, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

The article itself claims it is listed. And sure enough it already has an article here: Bon Haven What a darn shame that it will be torn down. --Krelnik (talk) 18:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:56, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Yamashiro Historic District images

Hallo Doncram,

Would you mind taking a look here Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_California/Los_Angeles_task_force#Yamashiro_Historic_District_images for your help, or ask a user in the task force who might be able to help? Thank you very much. Gryffindor (talk) 15:08, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Douglas County Courthouse (Wisconsin)

FYI I reverted your move because of a request at WP:RM/TR. I have procedurally opened an RM if you want to comment. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:24, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Doncram, what are you doing?

• It's quite dubious that buildings and institutions are "places" for our purposes. I mean yes I get that you could argue for (and against) the proposition that in the real world buildings or institutions are "places" rather than "things" -- it could be an interesting discussion. But one thing is certain: WP:PLACE doesn't apply to buildings and institutions. In that very long and detailed page, there is not one single mention or example of a building. They talk mostly about political divisions, and a bit about neighborhoods, rivers, highways, and mountains. They had plenty of space to cover or at least mention buildings. But they didn't. They didn't because they didn't think about buildings or intend to cover them.
• And WP:USPLACE prescribes comma delineation, so if buildings were covered by WP:PLACE it would be "Building, State" or "Building, City, State" and not "Building (City, State)".
• But also, WP:PLACE doesn't prescribe unnecessary disambiguation. Since it doesn't cover buildings you have to extrapolate a bit, but I think it fair to say (leaving aside comma delineation) that "Building (City, State)" would be analogous to "City (County, State)" or "County (State, Nation)" which we would do only if "City (State)" etc. is insufficient -- and WP:PLACE in no way indicates otherwise.
• But anyway, even if WP:PLACE applied to buildings (which it doesn't), and even if it said to use "Building (City, State)" when we didn't have to (which it doesn't), WP:PLACE is a guideline, and WP:AT is a policy which trumps it, and WP:AT tells us to be concise, and to be more no precise than necessary.
• And as regards actual practice, the situation appears mixed. Four of six articles requiring disambiguation in Category:County courthouses in Wisconsin use "Building (State)". I didn't check further.

And even if my analysis above was all wrong, it's not nonsense. It is at least arguable. Since its at least arguable you need to not move articles on your personal belief, but initiate a Requested Move, thanks.

By the way, on the merits I don't necessarily mind "Building (City, State)" if it helps the reader more quickly grasp what the article is about. There could be a Recognizability argument for "Douglas County Courthouse (Superior, Wisconsin)"... not strong IMO but I could be wrong.

We don't seem to have a guideline covering buildings. I expect to start a discussion about that soon, and I'll ping you, and maybe "Building (City, State)" when disambiguation is required can get adopted -- I doubt it, but you never know. Herostratus (talk) 04:12, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Moving forward

I think I'm on your side on the merits of this (not on the concept of making controversial moves on your own dime). As promised, I opened a conversation on this and am hereby pinging you. It is here: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)#What are, or should be, the disambiguation guidelines for buildings?. Herostratus (talk) 05:14, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	For your ability to see both sides of an issue, and give sage advice gently, a rare and valuable asset to the project. E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:24, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Texas Trail

Was this the same as the Chisholm Trail, or something different? There's an ambiguous link (tagged as {{dn}}) to the DAB page Texas Trail in Texas Trail Stone Corral which I do not feel competent to fix. If yes, cross-references might be in order; if no, there may be a missing article. Narky Blert (talk) 19:49, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Right, I have been wondering if there is a missing article, since whenever it was I created and/or edited at Texas Trail Stone Corral. I considered your making addition to the Texas Trail disambiguation page to be a contribution towards sorting out the question. Since there are a couple references to "Texas Trail", i tend to think this is different than the Chisholm Trail, but I don't know. Hmm, the NRHP nomination document for the corral repeatedly speaks of the "Texas Trail". I speculate perhaps it was a name used in Nebraska for one or more trails which brought cattle from Texas to railroads in Nebraska. Maybe on the Texas end it/they were called differently (like, on the other end they could have been called "Nebraska Trail")? But that speculation doesn't hold. The corral was built c.1876 and served the Texas Trail for a decade. However the Chisholm Trail speaks of railroad reaching Abilene, Kansas and other locations before 1876, presumably to the south of Nebraska, so it wouldn't make sense for cattle to be driven to Nebraska. So maybe the Texas trail was to bring cattle south towards Texas, to railroads? I dunno. --doncram 20:14, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Googling "Texas Trail in Nebraska" gives several sources, including THE TEXAS TRAIL, at Nebraska State Historical Society. So yes, the disambiguation page should be moved to Texas Trail (disambiguation) and a new article should be created. Go ahead, Narky Blert, or I will, soon. Thanks for your focus upon this! --doncram 20:32, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

note about Colquitt County Arts Center

I just reviewed your new article. I realize that you might be still working on it. The infobox needs 'fixed'. Thanks for what you do! Best Regards,

  Bfpage  _{let's talk...}  22:51, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Right, yes, after an edit conflict, it is now fixed. This is about Moultrie High School, aka Colquitt County Arts Center. Thanks! --doncram 22:58, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

That was one of the last former redlinks on National Register of Historic Places listings in Colquitt County, Georgia, now completely "articled". I have been off and on developing articles on Georgia NRHP topics in loose coordination with editor Bubba73, who has been developing them with new photographs, and was/is planning to visit Colquitt county sometime soon. On this one I hope there can be some more and/or better photographs added! --doncram 17:23, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Bonanza High School (disambiguation)

I have replied to your comment at Talk:Bonanza High School (disambiguation)#Do not delete. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:11, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Robert "Bob" Hicks House) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Robert "Bob" Hicks House, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Elliot321 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Thank you for creating this useful page! I look forward to seeing it significantly expanded.

To reply, leave a comment on Elliot321's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Elliot321 (talk) 17:51, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Jimbo talk page comment

I thought some of your ideas at the Jimbo talk page regarding the entrepreneur article issue were intriguing, but I confess I cringed a bit when you suggested that she probably cheats on her taxes. Would you consider redacting that comment? It's my opinion there are important issues to address, and in the same way I objected when I thought smallbones went over the top, I think your comment distracts from the main discussion.--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:29, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Sphilbrick, I think you're nice for asking for that, and I already know you're a nice person from interactions over the years, including seeing you be kind to new editors having trouble understanding how to participate in Wikipedia. I refined one of my comments already, but right now I think i should just stand by my remarks. A point that I am making is that you and others are being nice, and are being abused, and it's simply a different world out there. The author mentions having long correspondence with some community representative (member of the Foundation board of directors?) and corresponding with others, and I rather expect they were dealt with patiently and it was explained how the paid editors' shit-work is a real drag and hurts real people, volunteer editors, and yet they go on with their recommendation to just trash Wikipedia and lie. They're not being nice. Wikipedia does not need to be nice to them. Right, I tried to express that I am not myself comfortable about being "not nice", but that's the deal. Hmm, suppose they are a real person and a mother and whatever, and they have Facebook friends who see them being criticized, and suppose they really do feel hurt by my comments (which I doubt). Well, I don't relish hurting anyone, but they are hurting real nice people here, and they jolly well know that. Hmm, maybe what got published is not what they wrote...perhaps what they submitted was in fact witty, and yet some editor made them change it or simply changed it for them, and pushed on to be provocative. I.e. suppose it is not really their view, does it seem unfair to criticize them? Well, what they wrote does not read that way. If they want to correspond to me (they can "email this user" at the left here) and explain what really happens, I would be happy to listen. But then it would seem their beef should be with the editor who changed what they wrote and left them looking like a jerk. They do look like a jerk. And the editor(s), whether they changed anything or not, have some responsibility too. I do sincerely thank you for giving your point of view. --doncram 21:26, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Banco de Ponce

Left you a reply at

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Banco_de_Ponce_(disambiguation)#Do_not_delete
  Mercy11 (talk) 02:45, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Nothing personal: I think the wider issue does need to be resolved, so I've nominated an AFD... Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 05:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 05:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Burwell Bridge) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Burwell Bridge, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Nicnote just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Wonderful article as always!

To reply, leave a comment on Nicnote's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Nicnote • ask me a question • contributions 20:27, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation

The guideline for disambiguation is at WP:PRECISION and the key for titles is being concise, i.e. using as few words as possible. Precedence in other similar articles only requires using "city, state" in parenthesis in the event more than one article of the same title exists in the same state. This happens a lot with high schools, for instance, Lakewood High School (Lakewood, Ohio) and Lakewood High School (Hebron, Ohio) since "Lakewood High School (Ohio)" is still ambiguous. The school of the same name in New Jersey, however, only needs "New Jersey" to disambiguate (Lakewood High School (New Jersey)) since there aren't any other schools with that name in New Jersey. For things like Midway Drive-In, the only difference between them is which state they're in, so we can just use state. Midway Drive-In (Ohio) is precise enough to separate disambiguate from Midway Drive-In (Illinois) and Midway Drive-In (Texas). The "city, state" convention for most US cities is generally for the city articles themselves, not for disambiguation titles, except as needed. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:51, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Article, Keppel Gate, Isle of Man

Hello, I'm Agljones. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks.
Constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, but a recent edit that you made has been reverted or removed because it was a misuse of a warning or blocking template. Please use the user warnings sandbox for any tests you may want to do, or take a look at our introduction page to learn more about contributing to the encyclopedia. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. agljones(talk)07:48, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:TNTTNT

Wikipedia:TNTTNT, a page which you created or substantially contributed to (or which is in your userspace), has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:TNTTNT and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:TNTTNT during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:33, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Wayne Commercial Historic District) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Wayne Commercial Historic District, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Elliot321 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Thank you for creating this useful article!

To reply, leave a comment on Elliot321's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Elliot321 (talk) 20:31, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in Shelby County, Tennessee

So many red links at National Register of Historic Places listings in Shelby County, Tennessee...Zigzig20s (talk) 00:37, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Okay, Zigzig20s, one fewer now. I wouldn't mind working on it together with you. But any reason to address that list, rather than other blue-coded counties in NRHP progress map? If you are going to visit and take photos, for example, please do say. --doncram 12:51, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted

Hi Doncram, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Swarm ♠ 03:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that. (Was done here.) --doncram 11:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - Newsletter No.4

Hello Doncram,

Since rolling out the right in November, just 6 months ago, we now have 804 reviewers, but the backlog is still mysteriously growing fast. If every reviewer did just 55 reviews, the 22,000 backlog would be gone, in a flash, schwoop, just like that!

But do remember: Rather than speed, quality and depth of patrolling and the use of correct CSD criteria are essential to good reviewing. Do not over-tag. Make use of the message feature to let the creator know about your maintenance tags. See the tutorial again HERE. Get help HERE.

Stay up to date with recent new page developments and have your say, read THIS PAGE.

---

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:43, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Fort Arbuckle Site

A tag has been placed on Fort Arbuckle Site requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G6 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an orphaned disambiguation page which either

• disambiguates two or fewer extant Wikipedia pages and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic); or
• disambiguates no (zero) extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. - MrX 23:10, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Confederate Monument (Union City, Tennessee)

Thank you for creating Confederate Monument (Union City, Tennessee). Any idea who the sculptor was please?Zigzig20s (talk) 04:55, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Zigzig20s, that was back in 2010! Just now I added the NRHP registration document (with its photos) now available, which supports an assertion that the 1869 monument is the first one honoring unknown Confederate dead. But no sculptor info. Some more from the NRHP doc could be added, too. --doncram 05:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Affine manifold (disambiguation)

The article Affine manifold (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Disambiguation not required. Primary topic has necessary hatnote

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:56, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Category:Centennial farms has been nominated for discussion

Category:Centennial farms, which you created, has been nominated for possible merging. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:01, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Imperial Crown Architecture

Hi Doncram, I am wondering whether it would be useful to have a category for Imperial Crown style architecture? This style was not confined only to Japan, as there are examples to be found in other countries, such as Taiwan [3] and probably other parts of the Japanese Empire. merlinVtwelve (talk) 04:49, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

User:MerlinVtwelve, I agree. Go ahead, wp:be bold and create it (presumably Category:Imperial Crown Style architecture or similar), or do you want me to? Note there is wp:CLNT, an essay or guideline about how having categories and list-articles are complementary. Clearly accumulating information about this architectural style by creating and gradually populating a category will be a good thing. --doncram 02:41, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

P.S. I wouldn't worry too much about whether "Japanese" or other qualifier is needed in the category title. Categories can easily be renamed and a bot will go through the articles created in order to update them. --doncram 02:42, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll give it a whirl. I've never previously created a category, so it will be a good learning experience (I hope). IMHO it's a fascinating and sometimes quite elegant style. merlinVtwelve (talk) 03:10, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Saint Paul Catholic Church article

Hello Doncram. I tried to create an article for St. Paul's but couldn't. I don't think it's notable enough, and there isn't very much to be said that's not already on the church's history page. It was a challenge to avoid close paraphrasing. I took away the red link on the Archdiocese page. I saved the version that I was working on in case I decide to come back to it, but at this point I don't think it's worth it. Display name 99 (talk) 02:30, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi, User:Display name 99, thanks for letting me know. Is your draft available? I'd rather try to expand on that than develop from scratch. Could you point me to where it currently is, or post it at Draft:Saint Paul Catholic Church (Ellicott City, Maryland) or similar Draft-space or User-space location? I'd like to see it and try perhaps to expand it. I am betting you are a bit harsh on yourself / strict on what you think suffices, but also maybe some other eyes would be able to find and add more. I do appreciate your making effort on this. This relates to discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Our Lady of Pompeii Church. --doncram 02:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

I've posted it. Two things that aren't on the parish's history page, though, are the Babe Ruth marriage and the fact that the church sheltered people during the deadly 2016 Maryland flood, for which it made the news. Display name 99 (talk) 02:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay, great, thanks! It looks like a good start, and from the browsing I did before I am sure that I can add other sources. Do you do DYK's? I haven't for quite a while, but this could be a good topic for a mainpage DYK such as "Did You Know that... Babe Ruth was married at Saint Paul Catholic Church in Ellicott City, Maryland?", assuming we could develop some details about that topic in the article. I'd be happy to work towards something like that if it would be okay with you. I'll get around to developing the draft-space article gradually. --doncram 02:48, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

If you really feel like it's notable, I could just go ahead and create it now, and we both could work towards that. I've never done a DYK before, but that sounds interesting. Display name 99 (talk) 02:50, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay, do lets do a DYK then! For DYK purposes, it is better to develop the article in draftspace until it is ready, without the clock running. Requirements include that it has to have 1500 bytes of article text, not including infoboxes and other stuff, and it has to have detailed sourcing for the DYK assertion, and it has to be new to mainspace, less than 5 days old I think, when nominated, and maybe there is another requirement or two. The current article text has 615 bytes by the tool that i use. Development including DYK wording can be discussed at Draft talk:Saint Paul Catholic Church (Ellicott City, Maryland). Great, I am happy to have a small positive project like this! --doncram 02:59, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Copyright Infringement;- List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course

Your addition has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. agljones(talk)11:32, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Nonsense. I replied yet again at the long-open Copyright problems discussion section, and at this point I am coming around to support permanent ban of agljones from Isle of Man TT racing related articles, which has been suggested by others at the copyright problems discussion. --doncram 20:40, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Restricted address section intro

Template:Restricted address section intro has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 04:44, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:NRHP dab cleanup

Template:NRHP dab cleanup has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 05:48, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject Organized crime

	Hello, Doncram. You are invited to join WikiProject Organized crime, a WikiProject and resource dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of Organized crime topics. Please check out the project, and if interested feel free to join by adding your name to the member list. North America1000 21:45, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Infoboxes

Sorry - your message came after I went to bed, and I haven't had time to digest it until just now.

I'd rather not rollback any of the edits I made because AWB does a bunch of cosmetic stuff, and rolling back will kill all that, if it exists, as well as the edit in question. Besides which, it'll be tedious and easy to overlook something. What I think will be far easier to do is to generate a list for AWB and go back over the articles that way. It'll take a bit of time, but I should be able to get most, if not all, of the task taken care of by tomorrow evening if I get started on it tonight. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 16:28, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Sandbox is prepped for the AWB run. I'll start this evening and see how far I can go. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:26, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

This is about edits changing "architect OR builder" to "architect". User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao, your proceeding that way, using AWB, is fine. I do regret that in many cases your edit would happen to be correct. In other cases the information is now available from a now-linked or now-available NRHP registration document. It would be great to simply get the specific correct information out into the infoboxes and/or to develop the articles' text with correct info, too. If there's a worklist that I could try to help on, I would do a chunk. And/or we could try to get others to help, e.g. by directions on how to help at wt:NRHP. --doncram 22:51, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

List of tallest buildings in El Salvador

Hello Doncram – I've been on an eight-month Wikibreak for various reasons, but am now back on Wikipedia. You may remember that last year we talked about having an article for the above list – I've had a draft table with some citations in my sandbox for many months, but I have other articles that I would like to work on that are greater priorities for me and would like to free up some space in my sandbox. Would you be OK with moving the list to one of your sandboxes for you to continue working on in your own time, and eventually creating the article? Hope you are well. Richard3120 (talk) 00:28, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Apologies for the bump, but I wasn't sure if you'd seen my original message above or it had been forgotten. Richard3120 (talk) 20:02, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi, User:Richard3120, thanks for original contact and especially for following up. Probably i didn't know how to respond because you provided no links. Just now I found my way to the AFDs by trying List of tallest buildings in El Salvador (currently a redlink) and then "What links here". And I just requested copies of the 3 deleted articles. Yes, please, I would be happy to work with whatever draft list you have. Hmm, ah, now I find your draft at User:Richard3120/sandbox#List of tallest buildings in El Salvador. (Note I and many other editors create and use many sandboxes, e.g. User:Doncram/sandbox2, sandbox11, etc., but I see for you space is at a premium ;/ ) Okay, but I would like for you to get credit as creating the article, so could you create, say, User:Doncram/List of tallest buildings in El Salvador and copy that work over to it? I could edit it some then move it to mainspace, but it will properly show as having been created by you. It would also be fine if you would just create the mainspace article directly, and I would add to it in mainspace. Thanks! --doncram 20:24, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm really sorry, I kind of assumed that you'd remember what the original discussion was about – you're right, I should have provided some links. Anyway, I'll go ahead and create that sandbox later today, and then you can add the deleted articles as well to it. Perhaps I should look into creating more sandboxes, my current one's a mess! Richard3120 (talk) 20:48, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Argh i previously asked for and got those 3 articles

• User:Doncram/105 Campestre Torre B
• User:Doncram/105 Campestre Torre A
• User:Doncram/Campestre 105 Torre C‎

--doncram 01:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Waiting for User:Richard3120 to copy their work out of their general sandbox into a separate "sandbox" or into a mainspace article. --doncram 01:05, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

 Done at User:Richard3120/List of tallest buildings in El Salvador – apologies for the delay. Richard3120 (talk) 16:59, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Sunday July 16: New England Wiknic @ Cambridge, MA

Sunday July 16, 1-5pm: New England Wiknic

You are invited to join us the "picnic anyone can edit" at John F. Kennedy Park, near Harvard Square, Cambridge, as part of the Great American Wiknic celebrations being held across the USA. Remember it's a wiki-picnic, which means potluck. Sunday July 16 New England Wiknic (also on Facebook) 1–5pm - come by any time! Look for us by the Wikipedia / Wikimedia banner! We hope to see you there! --Phoebe (talk) 16:33, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Doncram, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

• The new page backlog is currently at 18,511 pages. We have worked hard to decrease from over 22,000, but more hard work is needed! Please consider reviewing even just a few pages a a day.
• Some editors are committing to work specifically on patrolling new pages on 15 July. If you have not reviewed new pages in a while, this might be a good time to be involved. Please remember that quality of patrolling is more important than quantity, that the speedy deletion criteria should be followed strictly, and that ovetagging for minor issues should be avoided.

Technology update:

• Several requests have been put into Phabractor to increase usability of the New Pages Feed and the Page Curation toolbar. For more details or to suggest improvements go to Wikipedia:Page Curation/Suggested improvements
• The tutorial has been updated to include links to the following useful userscripts. If you were not aware of them, they could be useful in your efforts reviewing new pages:
  • User:Lourdes/PageCuration.js adds a link to the new pages feed and page curation toolbar to your top toolbar on Wikipedia
  • User:The Earwig/copyvios.js adds a link in your side toolbox that will run the current page through

General project update:

• Following discussion at Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers, Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Noticeboard has been marked as historical. Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers is currently the most active central discussion forum for the New Page Patrol project. To keep up to date on the most recent discussions you can add it to your watchlist or visit it periodically.

---

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:48, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Bots Newsletter, July 2017

Bots Newsletter, July 2017

Greetings! Here is the 4th issue of the Bots Newsletter (formerly the BAG Newletter). You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future newsletters by adding/removing your name from this list. Highlights for this newsletter include: BAG BU Rob13 and Cyberpower678 are now members of the BAG (see RfBAG/BU Rob13 and RfBAG/Cyberpower678 3). BU Rob13 and Cyberpower678 are both administrators; the former operates BU RoBOT which does a plethora of tasks, while the latter operates Cyberbot I (which replaces old bots), Cyberbot II (which does many different things), and InternetArchiveBot which combats link rot. Welcome to the BAG! BRFAs We currently have 12 open bot requests at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval, and could use your help processing! Discussions Efforts at WP:CHECKWIKI to identify cosmetic fixes are still ongoing. The RFC on COSMETICBOT has concluded with "a clear consensus exists to adopt the proposed language". The new wording is now live. The venue for bot appeals and reexaminations has been changed from WP:BRFA to WP:BOTN (see discussion) The Wikipedia:Bot owner's noticeboard is now the Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard (see discussion). New things A historical correction was made to WP:BOTPOL (see discussion). WP:HIDEBOTS now mentions how to hide all bots from your watchlist, not only specific bots. The phabricator ticket T162685 is now closed, and we now have "#Bots-Framework" tag, so issues related to bot frameworks can be tracked. Wikibits.js has been removed (see discussion). 21 inactive bots have been deflagged (see discussion). WP:BOTISSUE has been updated to mention that BAG members can act as neutral mediators in bot-related disputes. WP:INTERWIKIBOT has been updated to reflect the post-February 2013 practice of putting interwiki links on Wikidata, rather than on Wikipedia (see discussion). Upcoming HTML Tidy will be phased out in June 2018, or possibly earlier. This may affect some bots (see FAQ). Wikimania Wikimania 2017 is happening in Montreal, during 9–13 August. If you plan to attend, or give a talk, let us know! Thank you! edited by: Headbomb 17:12, 19 July 2017 (UTC) (You can subscribe or unsubscribe from future newsletters by adding or removing your name from this list.)

Draft:List of alternative history books concern

Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:List of alternative history books, a page you created, has not been edited in 5 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 01:35, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

I moved it to User:Doncram/List of alternative history books for now. --doncram 02:39, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

NRHP & Listed buildings generally

further to your comments on Suydam House i was wondering if you have an opinion on the notability of National Register of Historic Places and whether that would apply to the (not really on wikipedia yet) listed buildings of the Historic England register, and the notability of listed buildings in general. A Guy into Books (talk) 08:16, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

This is partly about ongoing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suydam House, where i commented. User:Aguyintobooks, the system of NRHP listings under List of RHPs is generally well supported by the NRIS database and individual NRHP site nomination/registration documents that exist, whether they are linked or not. There have probably been hundreds of AFDs about individual NRHPs which have all failed, because the effective notability requirements for NRHP listing exceed Wikipedia's article notability standard. That said, the continued existence in Wikipedia of NRHP articles with no included claim of notability and no included substantial references, is something which could be contested. There is the wp:AFDISNOTFORCLEANUP argument however, and usually an AFD about any specific NRHP can be derailed by someone simply expanding the one article. About British listed buildings, it is my understanding that there are types I, II*, and II or something like that, and the higher one or two types are generally considered to be Wikipedia notable. --doncram 13:52, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that, very helpful and i have got a similar response in the teahouse also :) A Guy into Books (talk) 08:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Aguyintobooks, oh, further, I see the higher grades are I and II*. Grade II* listed buildings in Malvern Hills (district) is one example in Category:Lists of Grade II* listed buildings in England, where the editors have links for a few building-specific articles but don't assume the rest will be notable, providing no redlinks for them. In the U.S. NRHP system, we almost always presume all will be notable and show redlinks.

Yeah, I see some discussion at the teahouse thru this diff. A difference U.S. vs. U.K. is that in the U.S. the documentation really is required for listing (although there are still wp:MPS Multiple Property Submissions where short summaries of individual properties were deemed to suffice, in conjunction with one overall document), and the documentation is usually now online (see wp:NRHPhelp for guidance in finding docs from national or state-specific sources). Florida happens to have been the first state where all the articles were created, ten years ago, before documentation was available, but documents are now available for all or almost all of Florida, from the National Park Service. [I was mixing this up with recent Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pink House (Melbourne Beach, Florida) ].

Are you interested in working on articles in any area in U.S. or U.K.? Building seems to be clearly helpful; paring is another way to go, if it tends to increase others' incentive to build, but that is tricky. --doncram 14:28, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

I greatly prefer the idea of building articles rather than getting rid of them, however there is some obvious confusion on the notability issue which i wanted to sort out first. I know considerably more about the UK listings so will probably see if i can find some better documented ones (those with additional online sources, secondary to the listing itself) since that would seem to meet the notability criteria. I believe most, if not all the Grade I* listed buildings are already covered anyway. A Guy into Books (talk) 14:43, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

A nice award

	Newbie Helping Award
	In recognition of Doncram's engaging and helpful way of dealing with people who are new to Wikipedia. Not afraid to get involved, and makes one feel welcome. A shining beacon to aspire to. A Guy into Books (talk) 13:17, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! :) --doncram 01:27, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Only about 10% done

but you can see where I'm going User:Smallbones/DelCo Public Libraries

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 00:34, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Could you take a look at User:Smallbones/DelCo Public Libraries. Certainly there are photos and coordinates to add, but that is done in the usual course of editing, I need to check the order, perhaps numbers 1-28 in the first column? Any suggestions appreciated. Once the format is set, we might get it put into templates like the NRHP tables.

I'll probably suggest a whole USA project at the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Libraries page in a couple of days. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 16:19, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

I like where you are going with it. I think public libraries, or all libraries, are good topics and certainly can/should be covered in list-articles. I have made some edits in the list-article and asked some questions. Can we continue at User:Smallbones/DelCo Public Libraries? --doncram 18:31, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Federal Buildings

I ran across Federal Building and Federal Building and Post Office today and am perplexed why they both exist. They seem to me to both essentially cover the same thing. I haven't gone through exhaustively, but spot checking indeed finds buildings on both dab pages. I'm thinking of a merger here into Federal Building. I see that you have edited both. Any comments? My inclination is to do this without further discussion. MB 18:48, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

User:MB, there are multiple places named exactly "Federal Building and Post Office" so it is appropriate to have a disambiguation page for them, although perhaps without all the entries that the page has now. I created the two disambiguation pages a long time ago and might do it differently if I were doing it now. Perhaps there should be a list-article about Federal buildings, if there is not one, which would replace the Federal Building disambiguation page, much like a list of U.S. post offices replaced a disambiguation page about places named "U.S. Post Office". I don't think a simple merge of disambiguation pages is the best way to clean it up. How about discuss at Talk:Federal Building. --doncram 18:54, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Vacaville Transportation Center

I found a bunch of RS for VTC but I am not a subscriber and cannot access them all, could you help expand the article for me? I listed a link to the additional articles on its deletion page and could you find a way to buy more time, just look at what I did with Fairfield Transportation Center, this is a major public infrastructure project costing over 12 million dollars and is notable imo.Busguy9 (talk) 01:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Vacaville Historic Places

All done — Preceding unsigned comment added by Busguy9 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Wholesale content removal

Your wholesale removal of content on the Confederate memorials article goes against many editors that added it. It borders on vandalism. You need to get consensus first. If you continue I will report you for edit warring. Legacypac (talk) 22:27, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

The proposal to change scope of the list-article is being discussed at Talk:List of monuments and memorials of the Confederate States of America, where Legacypac has now participated, and so have I. --doncram 22:32, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Original Barnstar
		For having the foresight to create List of monuments and memorials of the Confederate States of America in 2010!Zigzig20s (talk) 22:49, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Investment

Hey there! I just re-launched the WikiProject Investment.

The site has been fully revamped and updated and I would like to invite you the project.

Feel free to check out the project and ping me if you have any questions.

I'd like to invite you to join the Investment WikiProject. There are a lot of Investment related articles on Wikipedia that could use a little attention, and I hope this project can help organize an effort to improve them. So please, take a look and if you like what you see, help get this project off the ground and a few Investment pages into the front ranks of Wikipedia articles. Thanks!

Cheers! WikiEditCrunch (talk) 15:28, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Doncram, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

• The new page backlog is currently at 16,991 pages. We have worked hard to decrease from over 22,000, but more hard work is needed! Please consider reviewing even just a few pages a a day.

Technology update:

• Rentier has created a NPP browser in WMF Labs that allows you to search new unreviewed pages using keywords and categories.

General project update:

• The Wikimedia Foundation Community Tech team is working with the community to implement the autoconfirmed article creation trial. The trial is currently set to start on 7 September 2017, pending final approval of the technical features.
• Please remember to focus on the quality of review: correct tagging of articles and not tagbombing are important. Searching for potential copyright violations is also important, and it can be aided by Earwig's Copyvio Detector, which can be added to your toolbar for ease of use with this user script.
• To keep up with the latest conversation on New Pages Patrol or to ask questions, you can go to Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers and add it to your watchlist.

---

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of courthouses in the United States-work

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "List of courthouses in the United States-work".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Legacypac (talk) 18:03, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

I am very heartened to note

that you started the List of Union Civil War monuments and memorials. I was preparing to do it and then you just did it. I have left a series of discussion points on the talk page, I'd very much like to see your thoughts. We do have to proceed carefully, something in my opinion that is NOT being done at the Confederate Monuments article. For example the Minnesota Monument listed in the MN section is actually located in Arkansas. But we are off and running, perhaps we should consider a fast walk instead? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:33, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of List of road interchanges in the United States for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of road interchanges in the United States is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of road interchanges in the United States until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Sorry, but I think it has to go, at least in this form. Mangoe (talk) 21:44, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Quotation issues

I'm afraid that I have to take exception to your recent edit to Pawnee County Courthouse (Nebraska). I think that the insertion of a fairly long quote, even if properly attributed, ran afoul of MOS and of good encyclopedic practices generally.

A number of MOS and policy pages, including WP:QUOTEFARM, MOS:QUOTE, and WP:NFCCP, seem to converge on the idea that quotes should not dominate an article, and should generally be avoided when a paraphrase would serve the purpose equally well. The quote in the Pawnee County Courthouse article makes up on the order of half of the article text, and apart from the rather non-essential subjective description of the pediment sculpture as "delicate", could easily be replaced by a paraphrase with no loss of meaning.

Moreover, the quote appears to give a fairly full description of the sculpture, but doesn't. Per the next sentence after the quote in the nom form, confirmed by the photo, there's a lighted torch in the center of the group, which also has symbolic meaning.

It's certainly easier to slap a quote into an article than to come up with a good copyvio-avoiding paraphrase; but the easiest way isn't always the best. Could I suggest that you go back to the article and replace the quote with a good paraphrase? Ammodramus (talk) 03:58, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Pedimental sculpture

It's funny that you removed the pediment photo and complained here about the development of the article to include the quote describing it; I earlier received "thanks" from another editor specifically for my developing the article that way today. I meant to come to your Talk page and thank you for your having provided the photo, as it is nice and serves a good purpose; it is now used at List of pedimental sculpture in the United States.

I think your comparison of quote size to article size is apropos of nothing IMO; it has nothing to do with copyright violation potential, which has to do with percentage of source that is being quoted. But I have no problem with the article being developed to cover more about the courthouse, which would be appropriate, and would seem to reduce your concern anyhow.

I focused upon the pediment because I was specifically developing it for the purpose of including it into the list of pedimental sculptures. Right, I liked the "delicate" phrasing, and that is subjective and therefore appropriate to be quoted, avoiding seeming to assert it is factual by using Wikipedia's voice to say it. Re: your point about the lighted torch, I could revisit the article and think about developing about the pediment more or differently, although I don't agree that there is anything to be specifically concerned about. It's true that the article does not provide anything close to a comprehensive treatment of the topic (the courthouse). That is like many NRHP articles, and my edits were certainly an improvement, but I am certainly not against covering more.

However, I must say I am turned off by your removal of photo. I don't care to battle about including it, but why should I seek to develop differently or better about the pediment without that illustration being included in the article? I know from other cases that you dislike second or third photos in an article when the text is not long enough to absorb them well, visually, but in my view the way forward then would be to call for development of more text. Hmm. So, how about you restore the photo, then I would develop some more. --doncram 04:34, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

I edited some at the article including adding the additional sentence to quote, and I marked it "under construction" and put it into Category:NRHP in progress for now. About the quote, I don't see it easy to paraphrase, as wanted to include as much information as was in the quote, and would include more if there was more. In past I find it works to summarize from a longer source, but when want same amount of info, that paraphrasing doesn't work; you can't rewrite in same size without changing meaning and without mischaracterizing by presenting stuff in Wikipedia's voice. Hmm.

Another editor restored the photo, placing it in the See also section below the text. Not sure if that placement or addition of a gallery works. Photo was removed with edit summary "Left placement sandwiched text between photo and infobox, contra MOS:IMAGELOCATION. Article not long enough for a right-placed photo; as is, infobox extends far below text". Right, MOS expresses design guidelines which work for longer articles.

Hmm, maybe part of the solution is to put full quote into List of pedimental sculptures in the United States. However I think/thought it was proper for there to be more coverage in this article, and have a reduced quote / less coverage there. I would rather have full quote here. Hmm. --donoram 17:30, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

The quote belongs in the article about the building, as does the picture of the pediment. If we start adding descriptions in the pediment list things will quickly get out of hand. Carptrash (talk) 18:19, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

WP:MPS

Hello, do you still have the files you downloaded when we created WP:MPS eight years ago? At the time, you had the files for "AK, AL, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DC, DE, GA, GU, IA 1-12, ID, LA, MA, MD, NH, NM, NV, NY, PR, RI, SD, TX, UT, VA, VI, VT, WA, WI, WV, WY". Nyttend (talk) 00:04, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

They're not in my current computer but I will look for them in old backups. I presume you have your complementary set. --doncram 19:52, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, still do. I was interested in Virginia, of course. Nyttend (talk) 01:51, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

If interested...

surf and turf?

Given the Rice Ridge Fire, perhaps it is time to do the article on a NRHP property in Seeley Lake, Montana that is at some risk. I've had User:Montanabw/Double Arrow Ranch (should be Double Arrow Lodge) in my sandbox for ages and I haven't gotten around to doing it up properly. Got a ton of photos too. Feel free to play in my sandbox if you want to. Montanabw^(talk) 23:52, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

User:Montanabw, I didn't do much, but i think it is okay for mainspace and I moved it there. Feel free to fix it up better, of course. I googled for news about it and the fire but didn't find anything substantial to put in. Thanks for going there and taking the pics, hope the food was good! --doncram 20:19, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Scarborough

Sorry to reply here, but uh ... it's a long story. The problem is, I don't agree with that concept. Sure, it would work for Scarborough, however that's the only merged municipality that retains it's political integrity. Most people aren't sure where the East York southern boundary is any more. Or the old North York/East York boundary. And quite frankly York - was always a mystery to me. And what do you call Toronto itself? Well, you could use the older merger names. Forest Hill and Swansea. But what of Leaside, which was merged to East York. And Long Branch, Mimico and New Toronto that was merged to Etobicoke. What about forgotten places such as Midway, Carlton, and West Toronto? I don't have an answer I'm afraid though. Nfitz (talk) 04:46, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant (September 16)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Dodger67 was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Kaganovich Ball Bearing Plant and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
• You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:51, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello! Doncram, I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:51, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Category:Late 19th and 20th Century Revivals architecture in the United States has been nominated for discussion

Category:Late 19th and 20th Century Revivals architecture in the United States, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 01:12, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Doncram, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

• The new page backlog is currently at 14304 pages. We have worked hard to decrease from over 22,000, but more hard work is needed! Please consider reviewing even just a few pages a day.
• Currently there are 532 pages in the backlog that were created by non-autoconfirmed users before WP:ACTRIAL. The NPP project is undertaking a drive to clear these pages from the backlog before they hit the 90 day Google index point. Please consider reviewing a few today!

Technology update:

• The Wikimedia Foundation is currently working on creating a new filter for page curation that will allow new page patrollers to filter by extended confirmed status. For more information see: T175225

General project update:

• On 14 September 2017 the English Wikipedia began the autoconfirmed article creation trial. For a six month period, creation of articles in the mainspace of the English Wikipedia will be restricted to users with autoconfirmed status. New users who attempt article creation will now be redirected to a newly designed landing page.
• Before clicking on a reference or external link while reviewing a page, please be careful that the site looks trustworthy. If you have a question about the safety of clicking on a link, it is better not to click on it.
• To keep up with the latest conversation on New Pages Patrol or to ask questions, you can go to Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers and add it to your watchlist.

---

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:16, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

2017 Military history WikiProject Coordinator election

Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway. As a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 29 September. Thank you for your time. For the current tranche of Coordinators, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Draft:Literacy center concern

Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:Literacy center, a page you created, has not been edited in 5 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 20:59, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Draft:Mountain High School (Mountain, Wisconsin)

This is an NRHP rush job, since it is needed to resolve the problem of the Mountain High School disambiguation page not containing any articles actually named "Mountain High School". Cheers! bd2412 T 02:28, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

• Thanks! bd2412 T 11:31, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Category:Exotic Revival architecture has been nominated for discussion

Category:Exotic Revival architecture, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mangoe (talk) 19:55, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Lists of selected mosques

Template:Lists of selected mosques has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 02:45, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

DR

Just a note to let you know that an AfD you participated in is up for review here. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 20:27, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Boston Common and Public Garden

The article Boston Common and Public Garden has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No info here that isn't on the respective pages for the Common and the Garden.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. AnAwesomeArticleEditor (talk) 23:49, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for Making Articles Better

		The Guidance Barnstar
		Thank you for sources, lessons on style, and cleaning up articles. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 17:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! It is a pleasure to be cooperating with you at Alfred C. Finn and its Talk page and related articles. :) --doncram 18:38, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

List of disappearing gun installations

Given your comment here, would you mind weighing in on the discussion at Talk:Disappearing_gun#Significant_installations? Toddst1 (talk) 18:25, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:NRHP redirect cleanup needed

Template:NRHP redirect cleanup needed has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 03:05, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Doncram, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

• The new page backlog is currently at 12,878 pages. We have worked hard to decrease from over 22,000, but more hard work is needed! Please consider reviewing even just a few pages a day.
• We have successfully cleared the backlog of pages created by non-confirmed accounts before ACTRIAL. Thank you to everyone who participated in that drive.

Technology update:

• Primefac has created a script that will assist in requesting revision deletion for copyright violations that are often found in new pages. For more information see User:Primefac/revdel.

General project update:

• The Article Wizard has been updated and simplified to match the layout style of the new user landing page. If you have not yet seen it, take a look.
• To keep up with the latest conversation on New Pages Patrol or to ask questions, you can go to Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers and add it to your watchlist.

---

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:47, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Deleting comments on a talk page

Unless I'm mistaken, we can archive or delete off-topic comments on a talk page. According to the Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines:

Stay on topic: Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article. If you want to discuss the subject of an article, you can do so at Wikipedia:Reference desk instead. Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archival or removal.

Thus, your edit here lacked a sufficient rationale to justify reverting my edit. Fluous (talk) 11:27, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

@Doncram: Also, I'd appreciate if you refrained from using the article talk page to discuss conduct disputes. It's a violation of the talk page guidelines. By all means, make changes you feel are appropriate. But please discuss any conduct issues you have with me on my talk page; not the article talk page. Again, the article talk page is not the place to discuss conduct issues. I'm more than amenable to those discussions on my talk page. Thank you. Fluous (talk) 20:29, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

This was about my reverting Fluous twice upon their deleting or archive-boxing Carptrash's comments at the Confederate monuments list-article. This is continued at User talk:Fluous#"Warnings" to Carptrash, merging into a similar ongoing discussion there. Thank you Fluous for discussing at User talk pages and for offering that the discussion can be at yours. --doncram 03:41, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Related Question

Was my hatting here appropriate? The editor has repeated his accusations in almost every discussion. If hatting wasn't appropriate what's the best way to resolve this? It's been going on for about a month with me and other editors with no signs of stopping. D.Creish (talk) 21:08, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:D.Creish, after I reverted Fluous, I did notice your having archive-boxed something. I frankly think Carptrash's comments in general on the page have been civil and constructive. And that any repetitiveness is actually appropriate too, in the face of really obtuse and repetitive comments going the other way. Perhaps this can be consolidated with discussion at ongoing User talk:Fluous#"Warnings" to Carptrash. --doncram 03:45, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. Carptrash, whose interest in that article is genuine, was bullied and harassed. I received similar treatment for my participation. The diffs I linked were examples. My response was to hat what appeared to be personal attacks. If you have time to review it and tell me whether I acted reasonably, I'd appreciate it. Regardless, let me be clear that I have no complaints about Carptrash. D.Creish (talk) 16:57, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!

Happy Halloween!

---

Hello Doncram:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable Halloween!
    – North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 15:42, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Send Halloween cheer by adding {{subst:Happy Halloween}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

WP:CLEAN

	Hello Doncram: You are invited to join WikiProject Cleanup, a WikiProject and resource for Wikipedia cleanup listings, information and discussion. To join the project, just add your name to the member list. North America1000 15:42, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Civility Barnstar
	In admiration for your kindness in taking the time to explain how our red-tape-entangled system works to new editor Jgstokes. E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:51, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Diamond Jo Biography and Building

Hi doncram:

Since you specialize in historic buildings and you are an experienced editor, I seek your counsel. Please see Talk:Joseph "Diamond Jo" Reynolds Office Building and House and Talk:Joseph "Diamond Joe" Reynolds. Thanks, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 13:53, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Walter J. Cook for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Walter J. Cook is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Walter J. Cook until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Rathfelder (talk) 12:26, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Administrative buildings

Hello. After looking at Massachusetts Hall (Harvard University), I wonder if we could create Category:Academic administrative buildings for all the buildings where college/university presidents/provosts/deans have their offices? I don't think every single campus building is notable, but don't you think administrative buildings should be?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:44, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi, User:Zigzig20s, is the need partly met by List of Old Main buildings? And there is Category:University and college administration buildings in the United States which overlaps with your proposed category. I am not very much involved with categories, myself, but I suppose that a category of university officials' offices would be possible, if there are any significant ones worth splitting out of broader university-related categories. There must be a category of university presidents' residences already, or there should be one, because there are numerous separately-NRHP-listed examples.

Also I happen to just notice new MacLean Hall (University of the Ozarks) which currently needs appropriate categories. --doncram 17:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

There is also disambiguation page Administration Building which includes items that need better categorizing too. --doncram 18:01, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Help with a beach in California

Hi Doncram, I recently found (and prodded) Whittel Beach. It was created by a sockpuppet, (who obviously can't respond to my PROD) and I can't confirm if it exists or not, but since you have a vastly superior knowledge of US Geography and related sources, I thought I would mention it here and see if you can confirm if it is real or not. Dysklyver 13:16, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi, User:A Den Jentyl Ettien Avel Dysklyver, this source covers a Whittel Marsh is apparently not encroached by development so must have an edge, presumably the beach, on the S.F. Bay. So it doesn't seem made up. That was from 2nd or 3rd page of Google results; earlier results are all from Wikipedia nitself or from mirrors of Wikipedia. But it also does not seem obviously notable on its own. There are other marshes and sections of cattails or whatever around east and south and west and north of S.F. Bay, not generally known for being "beaches". Perhaps redirect to some coverage of the marsh elsewhere in wikipedia, but Point Pinole Regional Shoreline only mentions Whittel in the lede (probably added by the same editor), so would need to be worked into the body of the article. Hope this helps.--doncram 15:54, 11November 2017 (UTC)

Your signature

Please be aware that your signature uses deprecated <font> tags, which are causing Obsolete HTML tags lint errors.

You are encouraged to change

--[[User:doncram|<font color="maroon">do</font>]][[User talk:Doncram|<font color="green">ncr</font>]][[Special:Contributions/doncram|<font color="maroon">am</font>]] → --doncram

to

--[[User:doncram|<span style="color: maroon;">do</span>]][[User talk:Doncram|<span style="color: green;">ncr</span>]][[Special:Contributions/doncram|<span style="color: maroon;">am</span>]] → --doncram

Respectfully, Anomalocaris (talk) 19:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Okay, whatever, found it under "Preferences", and removed that. --Doncram (talk) 20:00, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Hmmm ... You're the first to say anything about having to find where the signature is ... maybe I'll add something about Preferences ... Thanks again. —Anomalocaris (talk) 01:00, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

ANI Experiences survey

Beginning on November 28, 2017, the Wikimedia Foundation Community health initiative (Safety and Support and Anti-Harassment Tools team) will be conducting a survey to en.wikipedia contributors on their experience and satisfaction level with the Administrator’s Noticeboard/Incidents. This survey will be integral to gathering information about how this noticeboard works - which problems it deals with well, and which problems it struggles with.

The survey should take 10-20 minutes to answer, and your individual responses will not be made public. The survey is delivered through Google Forms. The privacy policy for the survey describes how and when Wikimedia collects, uses, and shares the information we receive from survey participants and can be found here:

• https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2017_AN/Incidents_Survey_Privacy_Statement

If you would like to take this survey, please sign up on this page, and a link for the survey will be mailed to you via Special:Emailuser.

• Sign up here to receive a link to a survey

Thank you on behalf of the Support & Safety and Anti-Harassment Tools Teams, Patrick Earley (WMF) talk 21:12, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, Doncram. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

expertise needed

Can you help me identify the NRHP listing referenced at 930 Poydras.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:26, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:TonyTheTiger. Expertise? I'm flattered maybe, but i'm happy to try. It looks like it must be the building holding the restaurant "Blake's on Poydras" (http://blakesonpoydras.com/, which is at 920 Poydras. Can be seen in Google street view; it looks like a tiny, sorry little building next to a giant next door at 930. I figure it must be a contributing building in either NRHP-listed "Upper Central Business District" or in "New Orleans Lower Central Business District", which both have Poydras Street as a boundary. In the NRHP list-article, both those NRHP names are pipelinked to New Orleans Central Business District, which doesn't seem to include coverage of the NRHP topics. The NRHP docs have recently become available online for Louisiana. I'm not oriented yet, but I'll browse in NRHP doc for Lower and NRHP doc and photos for Upper. --Doncram (talk) 06:38, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

920 and 930 Poydras are on the block between Baronne and O'Keefe. Hmm, the map on p.14 of the Upper one shows that the district boundary partly runs along Poydras, but that is southwest from the block between Baronne and O'Keefe. So it would seem not to be Upper. But that is interpreting the district to be merely the combination of the Warehouse District and the Lafayette Square District, which I am not sure about. Page 9 of the Lower one's NRHP doc talks about the Upper one's boundaries exceeding the boundaries of the Warehouse and Lafayette Square districts. The map on pages 10-11 of the Lower one's NRHP doc shows that the Lower touches across Poydras from 920 and 930, but there is a general "Upper CBD" label on the area outside the "Lower", so maybe 920 is in "Upper" [i misswrote "Lower" temporarily] after all. --Doncram (talk) 07:04, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

My mother and aunt were raised on Baronne (the house was in the family until 2014).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:23, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

User:TonyTheTiger: However, the Louisiana state site's version of documents and photos and maps is different, and in this case yields more. It yields this map of the Lower which clearly doesn't cross Poydras to include 920. Here is the link to "Upper"'s info at the state site. Upper's info includes link to this map of the Upper which does in fact include part of the block of Poydras between Baronne and O'Keefe, at the very top left corner of the red-outlined area. It must include 920 but does not include 930 at the corner of O'Keefe. This is part 1 of another map showing lots, which corroborates, showing 920 within a blue boundary. And this part 2 continuation of that last map includes a key explaining the blue boundary is for the 1993 boundary increase from the original 1990 boundaries. So the answer does seem to be 920, and that it is in the NRHP-listed Upper Central Business District, within a 1993 boundary increase.

Further, the NRHP document text from the state site explicitly mentions 920, on page 9, as item #22 in a list of added buildings:

"#22: 918-20 Poydras. Contributing. One of seven three story party wall masonry buildings built in 1840; commercial space on ground floor and residential above. (The three immediately next to #22 have been demolished.) Present two story wrought iron gallery is modern, although it mimics the look of old New Orleans. Counted as contributing in contrast t #10 because it does not overwhelm the original building. Also, shopfront replaced."

Note the NRHP texts at the Louisiana state site are weird: they are scans of just the description (section 7) and significance (section 8) sections of an unseen complete NRHP document; they omit the introductory sections and the section 11 author and date of preparation.

So 920 Poydras is your building. --Doncram (talk) 07:30, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

I suppose that, after figuring this out, I oughta create proper articles for the Lower and Upper NRHP districts, either as separate articles or as sections in the New Orleans Central Business District article. These would be Lower Central Business District and Upper Central Business District (or Lower Central Business District (New Orleans, Louisiana) and Upper Central Business District (New Orleans, Louisiana). --Doncram (talk) 07:39, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

I trust you to create the appropriate articles and tweak 930 Poydras accordingly. Thanks for your clear expertise. I think it currently reads as if there is a building listed, but you show that the issue is about a contributing property.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:28, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Doncram, I interpreted the above as if you were going to create Lower Central Business District and Upper Central Business District. If this is not the case, I can stub them out, but I would need help cleaning them up.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:09, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

They are messy topics. I was hesitating partly because I wasn't sure if they should be covered as sections in the larger business district article, but I think now there is enough detail for them to be split out from it right away. (Although if someone else thinks they should be merged into the larger topic, I would probably be okay with that happening, too.) Okay, I started on the "Lower" one, will plug along on it and will start "Upper" one too if you don't start it first (which would be fine by me if you did). If you have some kind of deadline for a DYK or anything, let me know, otherwise I will take a little while on each of them though I will persist along. --Doncram (talk) 18:39, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Sometimes when I do districts, I create maps in which I clearly define the boundaries. I am envisioning a map showing the three revised boundaries, but I am not sure I understand where the boundaries should be. No rush right now.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:06, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

If you will be able to create maps, which i don't do myself, that would hugely help clean up the messiness about describing the districts. A map for "Lower" would be based primarily on this map showing the original plus two boundary increases (from the Louisiana state site, not yet properly covered in the article). Perhaps it could include selected landmarks; i'm not sure what landmarks will seem most salient; maybe more will be clear after the "Lower" article gets developed a bit more, including to begin to cover the 2014 increase.

A map for "Upper" could cover its original area + increases + the two local and/or national historic districts it subsumed (Warehouse District and Lafayette Square district).

Your interest is really helpful. Neat that you have a family connection to the area. I have been vaguely aware of the inadequate coverage of NRHP districts in New Orleans for a long time. Do let's keep chatting. --Doncram (talk) 19:38, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Also I see that Poydras Street exists as an article and now links to the two districts; it will be appropriate to provide some more info there about the specific buildings/blocks of Poydras which are in the Lower and Upper districts. I suppose other New Orleans street/avenue articles should also be connected, including Canal Street, New Orleans as one that overlaps with Lower. --Doncram (talk) 19:40, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Is there an upper district map with the clear presentation of the expansions like that for the lower?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:25, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

• I looked at some of the content related to Poydras Street. I am unable to understand the contributing properties to the Upper and Lower district original submissions. I believe that both include Poydras Street addresses, but I am not sure. Please advise. Also, I am not sure what is going on with the second expansion of the Lower District.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:27, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
  • You can see that I manually produced something resembling this for the Lower CBD as a main image. Let me know if you have a similar source to work from for the Upper CBD.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:51, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
    • Doncram, can you give me some feedback here. Also, do you know what happened to [http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/infobox.php Elkman's NRHP tool}?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:40, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
      • TonyTheTiger, that tool is still available, at http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/ (with no "2"). It uses the NRIS database through some date in 2010.

[File:New Orleans Lower Central Business District with increases.jpg|right|thumb|TonyTheTiger map for Lower Central Business District]

• • • • I got sort of stuck with situation for the Upper CBD Lower CBD that I think the National Register reported on listing first boundary increase but did not report on listing the second one, although it recorded it in a year-end "pending" report, while the state of Louisiana reports on both. It may be the case, probably is the case, that the second increase was in fact listed but failed to appear in the "Weekly listings" report, which has sometimes happened. Actually now I see the map you produced covers both increases, which is fine and good in my opinion. Thank you for that, it is great!
      • For the Upper CBD, it seems both later increases (and other modifications) were recorded by the National Register and received reference numbers. The second change changed the boundaries only to add two buildings, and its text is more about having reclassified some "contributing buildings" into non-contributing buildings and vice versa. For a map, there is a hard to read image on last page of text for the 2nd change (for which I can't tell if it distinguishes between original vs. any increases). The Louisiana state site mentions that the listing covers the "Update 8/12/93 roughly bounded by O`Keefe, Poydras, Convention Center Blvd., and the Expressway (B.R. 90)". It provides link to this map (which also does not distinguish between original vs. any increase). But it further includes link to two-part map map part 1 and map part 2 which clearly shows the entire district with first increase identified and with second increase identified. That two-part map is what you need. --Doncram (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Historic districts in New Orleans

Notes:

• HDs in New Orleans deserve comprehensive coverage, e.g. perhaps in a section of New Orleans, Louisiana article if not already covered there.
• Perhaps a navigation template amongst the districts, national and local, would help.
• This quick overview of NOLA historic districts, post-Katrina lists 20 NRHP districts and 13 local districts. NRHP ones, displaying NRHP names for them:

1. Algiers Point, infobox but no NRHP doc yet

2. Broadmoor Historic District, infobox but no NRHP doc at Broadmoor, New Orleans

3. Bywater Historic District, infobox but no NRHP doc at Bywater, New Orleans

4. Carrollton Historic District, infobox but no NRHP doc at Carrollton, New Orleans

5. Central City Historic District, no infobox, no NRHP doc, not mentioned in article pipelinked: Central City, New Orleans

6. Esplanade Ridge Historic District pipelinked to Faubourg St. John, no infobox no NRHP doc not mentioned

7. Faubourg Marigny

8. Garden District

9. Gentilly Terrace

10. Holy Cross

11. Irish Channel

12. Lower Central Business District

13. Lower Garden District

14. Mid-City

15. New Marigny

16. Parkview

17. South Lakeview

18. Uptown

19. Upper Central Business District

20. Vieux Carre

• This seems to be map datasets about each of the districts.

Other comments welcome. --Doncram (talk) 20:43, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

• • Since my mother and aunt grew up near the Garden District, New Orleans, that is the most interesting district to me. However. that article has a lot of content. The only issue is do we want a neighborhood and a historic district to share an article. There was a time when I was Wikiing 50 hours a week and I would have decided to take over New Orleans. I don't have the time I use to have to do something like that. I hope to get to making a map soon.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:46, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

2017 Military Historian of the Year and Newcomer of the Year nominations and voting

As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Doncram, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

• The new page backlog is currently at 12713 pages. Please consider reviewing even just a few pages each day! If everyone helps out, it will really put a dent in the backlog.
• Currently the backlog stretches back to March and some pages in the backlog have passed the 90 day Google index point. Please consider reviewing some of them!

Outreach and Invitations:

• If you know other editors with a good understanding of Wikipedia policy, invite them to join NPP by dropping the invitation template on their talk page with: {{subst:NPR invite}}. Adding more qualified reviewers will help with keeping the backlog manageable.

New Year New Page Review Drive

• A backlog drive is planned for the start of the year, beginning on January 1st and running until the end of the month. Unique prizes will be given in tiers for both the total number of reviews made, as well as the longest 'streak' maintained.
• Note: quality reviewing is extremely important, please do not sacrifice quality for quantity.

General project update:

• ACTRIAL has resulted in a significant increase in the quality of new submissions, with noticeably fewer CSD, PROD, and BLPPROD candidates in the new page feed. However, the majority of the backlog still dates back to before ACTRIAL started, so consider reviewing articles from the middle or back of the backlog.
• The NPP Browser can help you quickly find articles with topics that you prefer to review from within the backlog.
• To keep up with the latest conversation on New Pages Patrol or to ask questions, you can go to Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers and add it to your watchlist.

---

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. — TonyBallioni (talk) 20:27, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

James Hugh McNeilly's house

Hi. I intend to create James Hugh McNeilly, and I read in the comment section of this unreliable link that his house is listed on the NRHP. However, I can't find it, can you?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:57, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

The assertion seems very clear, and I tend to believe it. Of course you can email the author of the assertion. It could easily be a contributing building in a historic district, not an individually listed house, however. House is within one block of Glen Leven Presbyterian Church according to that assertion, and that church is located at 3906 Franklin Pike, Nashville, per google. I'll browse in historic districts at National Register of Historic Places listings in Davidson County, Tennessee. --Doncram (talk) 22:54, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

But I don't know if the church might have moved, but the Franklin Pike address is near Glen Leven Drive, suggesting not. Longview (Nashville, Tennessee) is the only NRHP located near there, at least from coordinates available in the Davidson County list-article. Hmm, i think i am stuck. --Doncram (talk) 23:06, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

[Photo of sanctuary of current Glen Leven Presbyterian Church] shows a modern sanctuary, so perhaps the church did relocate? This text states

In 1890 the Glen Leven Church was organized in a southern suburb, Waverly Place. It was from members of the First, Moore Memorial and Westminster Churches. It has grown with the growth of the suburb, and with its attractive church building, and its equipment it has fine prospects of large growth. It is under the ministry of Rev. Dr. J. H. McNeilly.

According to this one on Glen Leven, it moved to its present location in 1960s. "In 1890, he [John M. Thompson] and other neighbors established the Glen Leven Presbyterian Church downtown (it moved to its present location adjacent to the mansion in 1961-62). The church hired former Army of Tennessee chaplain, James H. McNeilly, as its minister." So need to look at downtown historic districts. --Doncram (talk) 23:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, when it was downtown it was presumably not named "Glen Leven" church, it would have taken that name when it moved to next to the Glen Leven mansion. Two mentions in google search on "john m. thompson church 1890 Glen Leven" yield "First Presbyterian Church".

• • "ORR for many years was a member of the First Presbyterian Church at its downtown location, and in 'recent years had been, a member of the Downtown Presbyterian Church. ... 'it relates that John Thompson's son, John M. Thompson, "married Mary McConnel, daughter of John Overton, and has one daughter, Mary."
  • www.mtsuhistpres.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Glen-Leven-HSR-1.2011.pdf "With her passing, the Glen Leven homeplace legally became the sole property of her son, John M. Thompson. A year later, Mary Hamilton Thompson married Samuel Holt Orr, a banker in Nashville, at the First Presbyterian Church. She became active as an officer in the Ladies' Battlefield. 192 Jordan,".

There are also mentions of "Downtown Presbyterian Church". History of downtown presbyterian church describes split of First Church moving out to suburbs. Downtown PC is at 154 Fifth Ave. N., at corner of Fifth and Church. That church is NRHP-listed and a National Historic Landmark: Downtown Presbyterian Church (Nashville). Okay, that suggests Fifth Avenue Historic District (Nashville, Tennessee) which per NRIS is "Roughly bounded by Church and Union Sts. and 4th, 5th, and 6th Aves" is a district which could contain the 1890 house of James Hugh McNeilly. "The district served as the center for retail activity, in Nashville. Buildings in the district were constructed between 1870 and 1930," per [ https://www.nashville.gov/Portals/0/SiteContent/HistoricalCommission/docs/Publications/NR_nashville_map.pdf this map/guide].

Unfortunately the NRHP document for Fifth Ave HD from National Park Service is yielding a file system error message. So the next step is to request the Fifth Avenue HD document and photos from the National Park Service, by email (see wp:NRHPHELP) and hope for PDF file(s) to be sent. I think that's it for me, for now at least. --Doncram (talk) 23:50, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

No, going back, maybe First/Downtown is not associated with McNeilly, except as source of part of the congregation of the Waverly Place church? Or when Glen Leven church was built next to the mansion, maybe the Waverly Place one moved there and some additional congregation from First merged in, too. Looking at Google map, Waverly Place looks to be outside downtown, on the way south, going towards Glen Leven. Maybe it was still "downtown" relative to Glen Leven though. Hmm, the Waverly Place Historic District NRHP doc and photos are available. The NRHP document mentions there being several churches, one of which could have once been the church that McNeilly was at. Hmm, should probably create Waverly Place Historic District (currently a redlink) to receive whatever gets developed here, and to link to/from your McNeilly article. --Doncram (talk) 00:04, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

I tend to shy away from historic districts, as it's hard to mention everything. I prefer articles about specific buildings.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:21, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Thompson, Gibel, and Asmus

Hi again. I'm trying to figure out what Thompson's full name was. Gibel was Henry Gibel and Asmus was Fred Asmus. Any idea please?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:13, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Now I don't know which Thompson you want, or why, but there is a John McDonald Thompson (1837 - 1911), per this Thompson geneology page, which also mentions a John Mark and a John Matilda and a John Moore, not clear if any of those M's were a middle initial preceding a Thompson last name. This is entirely out of context for me now. --Doncram (talk) 01:40, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

I can't find an obituary of Fred Asmus on Newspapers.com, unless he died in another state...Zigzig20s (talk) 01:51, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

The three architects designed the Mitchell House (Lebanon, Tennessee) and other buildings. But they each designed buildings on their own as well.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:52, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Ah, not the Thompson associated with Glen Leven Church. There's some info about Swiss-born architect Henry Gibel (1859-1906) in the NRHP nom doc for Third Baptist Church (Nashville, Tennessee), i.e. in <ref name=nrhpdoc-ThirdBaptist>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=79002427}}|title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: Third Baptist Church / Hopewell Missionary Baptist Church and Parsonage |publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author=David H. Paine |date=August 1979 |accessdate=December 13, 2017}} With {{NRHP url|id=79002427|photos=y|title=eight photos from 1979}}.</ref>. --Doncram (talk) 02:03, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

I saw that he was born in Switzerland but can't find an RS for it yet.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:07, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

The NRHP doc for Third Baptist Church is a reliable source. One of its references, by the way, is "Interviews with Emma Gibel Mason £ John L. Connely, Aug. 9, 1979". I presume Emma Gibel Mason would have known he was from Zurich, and there is nothing controversial, no reason to question that source (the NRHP doc). --Doncram (talk) 02:25, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Got it. By the way I think our info in the Nashville Arcade article is wrong; it looks like they designed it.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:50, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm done with Gibel for now. It looks like there may have been more than one Asmuses, so I listed the firm instead. I wonder if the American National Bank Building is still there.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:51, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguating move for DeWitt Post Office

In September, you have asked me to redo your move of DeWitt Post Office in January 2017 that I have undone hours later. However, Special:PrefixIndex/DeWitt Post Office only lists that article and the redirect. I have thus again reverted the move. A discussion has been started at Talk:DeWitt Post Office#Requested move 16 December 2017. Your move is likely to be controversial. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the notice. I commented there. Hope you don't mind my being a bit cranky there. Although I complain that i think it is your move that is controversial, it really doesn't hugely matter. --Doncram (talk) 18:48, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Donald W. Southgate

I'm working on Donald W. Southgate. Let me know if you can find other buildings he designed on the NRHP, besides the high school. Is the West End United Methodist Church really not listed?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:21, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm done with this article for now. You may want to proofread/improve it.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:40, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

I use this architect search tool out of the suite of NRHP tools. This yields only places listed before some date mid-2010. Searching on "Southgate" yields one other Southgate's work which is listed on the NRHP, and these two of Donald Southgate's:

• Thomas P. Kennedy Jr. House, 6231 Hillsboro Pike Forest Hills, TN Southgate, Donald
• West End High School, 3529 West End Ave. Nashville, TN Southgate, Donald --> West End High School (Nashville, Tennessee) is the article

It is possible that the church was listed later than 2010, or is not listed. Lots of churches prefer not to get NRHP listing. Okay I will browse the article. --Doncram (talk) 01:37, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I've added a few more houses thanks to the Kennedy form.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:47, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

RyeMabee

You may be interested in RyeMabee. There is more on the NRHP form but it is slightly off topic, about a former house.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:29, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

User group for Military Historians

Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:29, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Richard H. Martin, Jr.

Greetings Doncram. Thank you for your help with listings. Are there any for this fellow? Merry Christmas aand Happy Holidays. FloridaArmy (talk) 14:37, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi, searching on "Martin,Richard" i find this:

• Albert S. Sholes House, 1599 S. Alpine St. Cornelius, Oregon (Martin,Richard,Jr.), NRHP-listed.

Whose NRHP nomination mentions more: "The architect was Richard Martin, Jr., of Portland, who, from 1888 to 1896 or 1897 had been a principal in the noted firm McCaw and Martin. McCaw and Martin produced major Portland landmarks in the Richardsonian Romanesque Style which have been listed in the National Register. These include the New Market Annex (1889), West Hall, University of Portland (1891), and the Dekum Building (1892)."

Then searching on McCaw, i find:

• The Dekum, 519 SW 3rd St. Portland, OR (McCaw, Martin & White), NRHP-listed
• First Presbyterian Church of Portland, 1200 SW Alder Portland, OR (McCaw,William F.), NRHP-listed
• First Regiment Armory Annex, 123 NW Eleventh Ave. Portland, OR (McCaw & Martin), NRHP-listed
• Tahlequah Carnegie Library, 120 S. College Tahlequah, OK (McCaw and Bellis), NRHP-listed probably not related
• West Hall, 5000 N. Willamette Blvd. Portland, OR (McCaw, Martin & White), NRHP-listed

These are all NRHP-listed by some date mid-2010. The NRIS database version I accessed only reports up to then. Hope this helps. --Doncram (talk) 15:58, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Great! Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 20:11, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

New Orleans historic landmark help

Happy Holidays to you. I am halfway through a short visit to my birthplace of New Orleans. On this special day of celebration, I have created an article for the Xavier University Main Building, Convent and Library, which is important to my family because my parents, grandparents, maternal aunt and uncle and many other cousins of various degrees have attended Xavier University of Louisiana. Various sources claim that the main building is a city landmark, but I have found a historic landmark website for the city that does not include buildings at the University. Can you help me understand what is going on here.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:35, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't find it either. I find my way to this list of New Orleans and CBD landmarks from this page, but it doesn't include any Drexel Dr. or Xavier or Main or Library or Convent mentions that are relevant. Offhand there does not seem to be any coverage of New Orleans local landmarks by a list-article in Wikipedia, while it would be quite reasonable to have one (and would be included along with other U.S. state or local lists under WikiProject Historic sites, wp:HSITES). --Doncram (talk) 17:58, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

My cousin told me to put a call into https://prcno.org. I have left them a message and await a response. I may take a look at the NO landmarks down the line.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:53, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

George D. Waller

Hello. You may be interested in George D. Waller!Zigzig20s (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Draft:List of hotels in Barcelona concern

Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:List of hotels in Barcelona, a page you created, has not been edited in 5 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 01:38, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

I moved the draft to User:Doncram/List of hotels in Barcelona and removed the AFC header. I think its list of hotels having articles should be merged into barely-started table for Barcelona hotels within List of hotels in Spain. --Doncram (talk) 23:52, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

~~~ Merry Christmas! ~~~
Joyeux Noël! ~ Buon Natale! ~ Vrolijk Kerstfeest! ~ Frohe Weihnachten!
¡Feliz Navidad! ~ Feliz Natal! ~ Καλά Χριστούγεννα! ~ Hyvää Joulua!
God Jul! ~ Glædelig Jul! ~ Linksmų Kalėdų! ~ Priecīgus Ziemassvētkus!
Häid Jõule! ~ Wesołych Świąt! ~ Boldog Karácsonyt! ~ Veselé Vánoce!
Veselé Vianoce! ~ Crăciun Fericit! ~ Sretan Božić! ~ С Рождеством!
圣诞节快乐！~ メリークリスマス！~ 메리 크리스마스!
สุขสันต์วันคริสต์มาส! ~ Selamat Hari Natal! ~ Giáng sinh an lành!

Hello, Doncram! Thank you for your work to maintain and improve Wikipedia! Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
―Buster7 ☎ 17:18, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove and leave other users this message by adding {{subst:Multi-language Season's Greetings}}

• • I love your additions to the Mural List. Hope you don't mind my editing the Post Office articles you are creating. Best, ―Buster7 ☎ 17:21, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, Buster7, it's nice to be appreciated. This is about new or recently expanded articles like Anthony United States Post Office (Anthony, Kansas) and corresponding additions to List of United States post office murals. By all means, please proceed with your beneficial edits. I am very glad that you've done so much with the list-article over time. cheers, --Doncram (talk) 23:49, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

New Years new page backlog drive

Hello Doncram, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Announcing the NPP New Year Backlog Drive!

We have done amazing work so far in December to reduce the New Pages Feed backlog by over 3000 articles! Now is the time to capitalise on our momentum and help eliminate the backlog!

The backlog drive will begin on January 1^st and run until January 29^th. Prize tiers and other info can be found HERE.

Awards will be given in tiers in two categories:

• The total number of reviews completed for the month.
• The minimum weekly total maintained for all four weeks of the backlog drive.

NOTE: It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing. Despite our goal of reducing the backlog as much as possible, please do not rush while reviewing.

---

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. — TonyBallioni (talk) 20:24, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Belated best wishes for a happy 2018

^{The Fox Hunt (1893) by Winslow Homer, Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts.}
Thank you for your contributions toward making Wikipedia a better and more accurate place.

== BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 15:33, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Amendment request

You are involved in a recently-filed request for clarification or amendment from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Amendment request: Doncram and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the Wikipedia:Arbitration guide may be of use.

Thanks, SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:54, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Rowan County Courthouse

Thanks for your thanks. I didn't even realize it was a new stub by you. Total coincidence. Just fyi, I was on Talk:Kim Davis for unrelated reasons and someone put a photo there that got me curious. Anyway, nice job. Station1 (talk) 23:57, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Arbitration motion regarding Doncram

The following is cross-posted from the Arbitration Committee noticeboard.

The Arbitration Committee has resolved by motion that:

Remedy 5 (SarekOfVulcan–Doncram interaction ban) of the Doncram arbitration case is suspended for a period of six months. During the period of suspension, this restriction may be reinstated by any uninvolved administrator as an arbitration enforcement action should either SarekOfVulcan or Doncram fail to adhere to Wikipedia editing standards in their interactions with each other. Appeal of such a reinstatement would follow the normal arbitration enforcement appeals process. After six months from the date this motion is enacted, if the restriction has not been reinstated or any reinstatements have been successfully appealed, the restriction will automatically lapse.

For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 23:14, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding Doncram

I have filed an arbitration enforcement request because of your comments at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding Doncram; please see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. Nyttend (talk) 02:28, 22 January 2018 (UTC)