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My own opinion on the matter is that "Opposition to gay rights" is a wholly non-neutral name for the section. The crux of the matter is not gay rights, but is homosexuality, of which gay rights are only one part. Moreover, it is simply less accurate to say in the title that he opposes gay rights than to say he opposes homosexuality, as the former conveys only his political stance, while the latter conveys both his political stance and his broader ideological stance on which the political is based. Therefore, I support restoring the section to its previous name or renaming it '''Opposition to homosexuality''', which I had changed it to before being reverted by Contaldo80. [[User:Ergo Sum|'''<span style="color:#0645AD">Ergo Sum</span>''']] 19:37, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
My own opinion on the matter is that "Opposition to gay rights" is a wholly non-neutral name for the section. The crux of the matter is not gay rights, but is homosexuality, of which gay rights are only one part. Moreover, it is simply less accurate to say in the title that he opposes gay rights than to say he opposes homosexuality, as the former conveys only his political stance, while the latter conveys both his political stance and his broader ideological stance on which the political is based. Therefore, I support restoring the section to its previous name or renaming it '''Opposition to homosexuality''', which I had changed it to before being reverted by Contaldo80. [[User:Ergo Sum|'''<span style="color:#0645AD">Ergo Sum</span>''']] 19:37, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
:"Opposition to gay rights" is a more accurate description of the material. The material talks about Burke opposing gay marriage and relationships and legislation to stop discrimination at work etc. It is active opposition to the recognition of rights. "Homosexuality" as a subject heading really doesn't capture the issue - I can accept "Opposition to homosexuality" as a compromise. I can't see any material that suggests he is in favour of either homosexuality or gay rights but I'm happy to stand corrected. [[User:Contaldo80|Contaldo80]] ([[User talk:Contaldo80|talk]]) 10:43, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
:"Opposition to gay rights" is a more accurate description of the material. The material talks about Burke opposing gay marriage and relationships and legislation to stop discrimination at work etc. It is active opposition to the recognition of rights. "Homosexuality" as a subject heading really doesn't capture the issue - I can therefore accept "Opposition to homosexuality and gay rights" as a compromise. Personally I can't see how someone can "oppose" homosexuality - could someone "oppose heterosexuality"? I can't see any material that suggests he is in favour of either homosexuality or gay rights but I'm happy to stand corrected. [[User:Contaldo80|Contaldo80]] ([[User talk:Contaldo80|talk]]) 10:43, 8 August 2018 (UTC)


== Practising homosexuality ==
== Practising homosexuality ==

Revision as of 10:45, 8 August 2018


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Cardinal Burke-oral history-dairy farm

Cardinal Burke recently did an oral history about growing up on a dairy farm; Ed Janus-oral history project This would be an important source about Cardinal Burke's early life. Thank you-RFD (talk)

"Janus has cast a wide net for this new project, and he recently interviewed Cardinal Raymond Burke, who grew up on a Wisconsin dairy farm. His interviews will be archived by the historical society, and Janus hopes to publish them as an e-book." We don't know whether the interview has actually been archived, whether it's of any value, and whether the interview can reliably be used as a source for this article. I'm also somewhat skeptical that Burke's musings on life on a dairy farm are something of significance that we want to cover on a Wikipedia article! Let's get a bit more serious shall we? Contaldo80 (talk) 15:02, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I wanted to alert people in and outside of the Wikipedia Community about a possible new source. Ed Janus's oral history project is an ongoing project. Raymond Burke did grew up on a dairy farm and it could very well be an important factor in his life. My apologies for any problems I may had caused. I was assuming good faith when I provided this link to Ed Janus's oral history project because I thought it might be of interest to people especially the readers. Many thanks-RFD (talk) 15:20, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Alert us when there is something tangible to share that we can actually use to improve the article - as opposed to a general forum about any ephemera relating to Burke! Contaldo80 (talk) 15:41, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Liturgical abuses

I'm baffled as to what the section on "liturgical abuses" actually refers to. What on earth is a "bad mass"? We need to make this section more user friendly or it needs to go. Contaldo80 (talk) 16:04, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Contaldo80, the liturgical abuse section is important. It describes Burke's concerns with how many in the Church have developed a much more relaxed attitude towards the liturgy, not viewing it with the same reverence as before and not dealing with abuses seriously enough. The "bad Mass" source turned out to be a dead link, so I got rid of it but re-added everything else for said reasons. I also eliminated some close paraphrasing. Display name 99 (talk) 23:21, 13 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What sort of "abuse" of the liturgy are we talking about - can we be more specific? Contaldo80 (talk) 11:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Tag

To the editor who keeps removing material without talking it through can you please do so here - so that we can have a more constructive approach. Contaldo80 (talk) 17:35, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 19:06, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV over homosexuality section

There has been a slow-burning edit war over the name of the section, currently titled Opposition to gay rights. Contaldo80 has changed the long-standing name of the section and reverted several editors who have tried to change it to something else.

My own opinion on the matter is that "Opposition to gay rights" is a wholly non-neutral name for the section. The crux of the matter is not gay rights, but is homosexuality, of which gay rights are only one part. Moreover, it is simply less accurate to say in the title that he opposes gay rights than to say he opposes homosexuality, as the former conveys only his political stance, while the latter conveys both his political stance and his broader ideological stance on which the political is based. Therefore, I support restoring the section to its previous name or renaming it Opposition to homosexuality, which I had changed it to before being reverted by Contaldo80. Ergo Sum 19:37, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Opposition to gay rights" is a more accurate description of the material. The material talks about Burke opposing gay marriage and relationships and legislation to stop discrimination at work etc. It is active opposition to the recognition of rights. "Homosexuality" as a subject heading really doesn't capture the issue - I can therefore accept "Opposition to homosexuality and gay rights" as a compromise. Personally I can't see how someone can "oppose" homosexuality - could someone "oppose heterosexuality"? I can't see any material that suggests he is in favour of either homosexuality or gay rights but I'm happy to stand corrected. Contaldo80 (talk) 10:43, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Practising homosexuality

I've amended the material to remove "practising homosexuality". Partly I've done this because I think it's a somewhat old-fashioned and potentially derogatory term (as it suggests an individual can avoid being homosexual should they so wish). But more significantly I have made the change so that the wording aligns more accurately with the source. It also aligns with the discussion in the church - which is how you deal with Catholics that have a homosexual sexual orientation, whether they are sexually active of note. Thanks. Contaldo80 (talk) 10:31, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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