Talk:Ludovico Ariosto

I don't have the time or the inclination to fix the rather severe stylistic errors in this page. It almost seems like it was mechanically translated from Italian and lightly proofed by someone who speaks English only as a second or third language. I think I caught most of the worst grammatical and spelling errors, however, and I think all of the sentences at least make sense, now.

Is there any chance we can have a link to the original Italian article? I could help with editing. [Scarlett McQueen]

There's a link to the Italian down the left column (with the other languages links) or it:Ludovico Ariosto. Is that what you are looking for? John (Jwy) 20:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Christian epic?

I really don't know why this has been described as a "Christian" epic. This isn't Paradise Lost. Yes, like (virtually) every Italian of his time Ariosto was a Christian, although AFAIK not an exceptionally devout one. Perhaps the editor is confusing Orlando furioso with the other great Italian epic of the 16th century, Tasso's Gerusalemme liberata, where Christian themes play a markedly more prominent role. On the other hand, Orlando certainly belongs to the genre of "romantic epic" and is described as such on the title page of Barbara Reynolds' translation. --Folantin (talk) 16:34, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

1. Romance, not "romantic". There is a major difference. It is part Romance, but you cannot say something is a romantic epic, unless it was something similar to what Keats wrote in Hyperion. 2. This is a -Christian- epic. Quint describes it as such. Greene describes it as such. Dozens of major critics on epics describe it as such. Do you honestly think I chose the name "Ottava Rima" because I don't have a clue about Ariosto? Ottava Rima (talk) 16:54, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Lets cut to the chase. Christ is a major figure in Orlando furioso. Michael battles Satan who is helping the Saracens. God is involved quite often. To not call it a Christian work is OR. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:56, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not talking about Romanticism. "Romantic epic" is the critical term used to describe Boiardo and Ariosto's Orlando poems as well as Spenser's Faerie Queene. They used material from Medieval romances and had multiple plot lines (unlike Classical epics). Look up any decent book on Spenser for further details. Orlando furioso is notably absent from Chateaubriand's review of Christian epics in Génie du christianisme, whereas Dante's Divina Commedia and Tasso's Gerusalemme are all present and correct. Christ is a major figure in Orlando furioso? That's news to me and the index of characters in Reynolds' translation seems to confirm my impression. Saint Michael makes a cameo when he is sent to bring Silence and Discord to aid the Christians besieged in Paris, but any comparison between Ariosto and Tasso will show you how much more extensive and serious the latter's use of divine machinery is. Tasso is a devout Catholic poet, Ariosto is more ironic and imbued with the Renaissance humanism of the time. His hermits are just as likely to be lecherous as pious and the poet has great fun at the expense of the Donation of Constantine when Astolfo visits the moon. Calling this a "Christian epic" is giving the term undue weight. You might just as well call Othello a "Christian tragedy" because it takes place against the backdrop of the wars between the Christian Venetians and the Ottomans. BTW I'm not sure how user names are supposed to grant their bearers expertise in any given area.--Folantin (talk) 17:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

1. Romantic is for the Romantics. Romance is not Romantic. There is no adjective for Romance, because it is a genre. 2. If you think Christ isn't in Orlando furioso, then you obviously have not read the work. 3. Lets look at the scholarship (because it is obvious that you didn't): You could easily pick up Sergio Zatti's The Quest for Epic or David Quint's Epic and Empire to see how this is not "Romantic" epic, but is a cross between Romance and Epic, which are completely different. The hybrid genre, if you want to give it a name, is officially "syncretic romance epic". Now, about Christianity: (from Gregory's From Many Gods to One) "The poem's supernatural cast includes ghosts, giants, monsters, fays, demons, sorcerers, Proteus, God, the archangel Michael, and a spate of personifications". Now, did we forget the many stanzas with St John the Evangelist as a character? Now, why is it called Christian? (Gregory, p. 109) "In the Furioso God backs the Christians and the devil backs the Saracens". It is an epic from the Christian perspective. I could go on. I have 9 books of epic theory on my desk currently, but it is obvious that you have no ground to stand on. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)