User talk:Rocknrollmancer

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Hello, Rocknrollmancer, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:11, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

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June 2013

Hello, I'm Coasterlover1994. I wanted to let you know that I undid one of your recent contributions, such as the one you made with this edit to BSA Spitfire, because it didn’t appear constructive to me. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Coasterlover1994^{Leave your mark!} 01:00, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Rocknrollmancer. You have new messages at Coasterlover1994's talk page.
Message added 19:42, 28 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Coasterlover1994^{Leave your mark!} 19:42, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

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July 2013

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• comparisons between Owen Greenwood's Mini and Colin Seeley's FCS-BMW. Accessed 2013-07-05</ref> {[[Helmut Fath|Fath]]-[[Rider deaths in British motorcycle racing series|Camathias]] Special). His best result as a competitor was a second place finish in the sidecar competition at the [[

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additional details

regarding your comment [1] and the fact that several people have made similar unsolicited statements at the venues where he has appeared, do you have any place where the user has been officially warned or reminded about their inappropriate behavior? If they have multiple times been warned about juvenile harassment retribution attempts and they continue that behavior, an RfC where the incidents are collected may be the next appropriate step. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:04, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

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Hello Rocknrollmancer, You are invited to join WikiProject Motorcycling. We work together to improve motorcycling related articles. We focus on things like the most popular motorcycling articles, recognizing and improving new articles, historically important motorcycles, and more. Please share your ideas, suggestions, and questions at WikiProject Motorcycling. To join the project, add your name to the list WikiProject Motorcycling/Members. For even more ways you could contribute, click [show] to see the To do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Motorcycling: Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : See also: Wikipedia:Requested articles/Applied arts and sciences/Transport § Motorcycles Origin and disparities in technological advancements & infrastructure compared to automobile safety sector Social, economical and political aspects of safety work done by motorcycling organizations Greenhorn Enduro Motorcycle assassination [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12] Monobloc brake caliper Motorcycle shaft drive (redirect) Radial brake caliper[13] Sara Liberte photographer and custom motorcycle builder Ross Langlitz of Portland, OR, motorcycle racer and designer of the Columbia jacket Jack McCormack (motorcycling) first national sales manager for American Honda, then Suzuki, and founder of American Eagle Motorcycles (1967-1970).[14][15][16][17] extreme enduro Dick O'Brien Harley-Davidson racing team manager 1957-1983[18] SC-Project, High profile motorsport exhaust maker, especially MotoGP/Superbike Supermoto World Championship Supermoto of Nations Freestyle Motocross World Championship The following pages have many redlinks that need articles written: List of Grand Prix motorcycle racers List of Motocross riders List of Grand Prix motorcycles (also include expanding articles already linked) List of motorcycle manufacturers List of FIM affiliated federations List of Speedway Grand Prix riders(also include expanding articles already linked) Transatlantic Trophy, UK versus USA short circuit challenge Info needed on Armstrong chassis builders (CCM-Armstrong & Rotax-Armstrong). Bikes: Aprilia RS 660 Bimota Tesi series Butler Petrol-Cycle (Edward Butler (inventor)) Captain America (motorcycle) (redirect) (Easy Rider chopper). This could also be expanded into a bio of Clifford Vaughs[19][20][21], see also history of black power movement, SNCC, etc. I'd write Captain America (motorcycle) first, then spawn Clifford Vaughs article later. CRP Energica (an italian electric motorcycle) Curtiss Motorcycle Equipment Co (Glenn Curtiss) Ducati Superleggera (add to Panigale article) Harley-Davidson Model B Honda CB92 Benly 1958 Honda Dream 1949. dab page needs work; other pages need work Kawasaki GPZ750 Turbo Verify if it belongs on List of fastest production motorcycles, update navboxes Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD 2009 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD motorcycle Kawasaki J 300 Kawasaki ZX-10R Verify if it belongs on List of fastest production motorcycles, update navboxes Moto Guzzi MGS-01 Moto Guzzi V7/Ambassador/Eldorado/850 Probably redirect all these to a single-page history of this series. Main articles on each one later, if desired. Motorcycle streamliner Norton Scrambler (needs own page not redirect) Pope (motorcycle) company and all models Thomas steam bicycle Vins Duecinquanta Werner Motocyclette Yamaha RD series - specific models or generally as a whole Yamaha YZF-R7 (2022 bike) with statement explaining not to be confused with 1999 YZF-R7 Motorcycle Clubs and Federations Iron Pigs Motorcycle Club (RE: Seattle police officer Ronald Smith, Sturgis shooting) Vietnam Veterans Motorcycle Club Companies related to motorcycling Johnson Motors US Triumph distributor founded by Bill Johnson at the Motorcycle Hall of Fame. Johnson Motors Inc. Clothing is non-notable and unsourced; it should redirect to Johnson Motors. Motus Motorcycles US manufacturer of Motus MST. Arlen Ness Enterprises(Company) US manufacturer of Arlen Ness. Motorcycle Magazines Dirt Rider magazine Cleanup : Talk:Motorcycle#Re-sort contents with Motorcycling article Move social/motorcycles+people content to Motorcycling, keep only machine/inanimate content on Motorcycle Big-bang firing order Template:Honda Offroad Motorcycles and related models such as the CR series. Is model code the clearest nomenclature to use? Leslie Graham Loh Boon Siew has refs, needs footnotes Malaguti Matchless need information moved to more appropriate articles Montesa Honda Snaefell mountain course article or section may need a complete rewrite Trail braking Could be a Good Article with very little work. Type 97 Motorcycle Ulster Grand Prix Velocette Wire wheels: Wire wheels#On motorcycles says only main article: Motorcycle construction#Wheels, but that is not a main article, it is a subsection. Bicycle wheel is a better article, but none of these 3 actually explains how spokes support the wheel pre-stressed w/compression. Copyedit : Expand : AGV (helmet manufacturer) Alpinestars Arai (company) Arlen Ness Arrow (motorcycle part manufacturer) Bell Sports (helmet manufacturer) Britten V1000 (High importance) Brembo BSA Gold Star Cagiva GP500 Cagiva Mito CZ Motorcycles Cory Ness Crocker Motorcycles Cycle World Derbi Derbi GPR125 DKW Endurocross Freddie Frith Gilera Hurt Report Indian Prince Indian Scout (motorcycle) (High importance) Indian Single series. (High importance) Jimmie Guthrie Ernst Jakob Henne Kawasaki GPZ900R Kawasaki Z1 Keihin Corporation Kick Start (TV series) Kreidler List of 2007 motorcycling champions Marchesini Meguro Manufacturing Company Mondial Piega 1000 Motobécane MotoCzysz Motorcycle brakes (High importance) Motorcyclist (magazine) Öhlins Ossa Ray Pickrell Schuberth Helme GmbH Shoei Showa Corporation Snell Memorial Foundation Steering damper Temple Riders Vincent Black Shadow (High importance) William A. Davidson Yamaha (expand racing history) Yamaha FZR1000 Zach Ness Zündapp (motocross & ISDT bikes need expansion) Merge : NPOV : Stubs : * See Category:Motorcycle stubs Update : Wikify : Other : Commons photo cleanup: Please identify and categorize: Category:Unidentified motorcycles The following articles are missing images Most stubs require images See also: Category:Wikipedia requested images of motorcycles Bigtoe Cagiva GP500 Willie G. Davidson Excelsior Super X Killinger and Freund Motorcycle NSU Quick 50 Satra Zongshen 250 GS Translation requests: Italian: Paton Italian: Sertum Japanese: みづほ自動車製作所 Japanese: 目黒製作所 Japanese: 宮田工業 Italian/Spanish: Benelli BN 302 from this source [22] Italian/Deutsch BMW C 400 from this source [23]

WikiProject Motorcycling

To show your membership, you may care to include one of the following templates on your user page {{User WP Motorcycling}} This user is a member of WikiProject Motorcycling. {{User WikiProject Motorcycling}} This user is a participant in WikiProject Motorcycling. Adding {{Article alerts columns|Wikipedia:WikiProject Motorcycling/Article alerts}} to your user page will display current motorcycling discussions and proposals. Or add Wikipedia:WikiProject Motorcycling/Article alerts to your watchlist.

WikiProject Motorcycling

Invitation declined, ThanQ. However, I will continue to lurk, as I have always done.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:21, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Vision West Nottinghamshire College

Hello Rocknrollmancer.

Thank you for your recent contributions to Vision West Nottinghamshire College, I am aware of the confusion surrounding the current name and past names of the College. From what I understand it was called West Nottinghamshire College which remains its legal name until September 2011 when it was re-branded Vision West Notts which can be seen here [24] [25] but only for a short time and it was re-branded again to Vision West Nottinghamshire College by June 2012 which can be seen here [26].

I am aware of the special status of the principal compared to other college principals however listing all her awards most of which have little relevance to information about the college seems rather excessive as the page not about her as such but more the college I would therefore quite strongly suggest creating an article titled Asha Khemka for information about her. C. 22468 Talk to me 14:24, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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Isle of Man TT Races

The issue with the carte blance application of the WP:INFOBOXFLAG policy to the Isle of Man TT pages has been the repeated removal of the Northern Ireland flags and leaving the other flags. Wikipedia policy allows for sub-nation flags and the issue of the Northern Ireland flag is a problem that the Northern Ireland Executive have not been able to resolve.

In respect to the discussion of safety issues relating to the Isle of Man TT or Manx Grand Prix there is a safety section contained in the main part of the Isle of Man TT article and also the problems has been discussed on the Isle of Man TT Talk Pages. The executive summary of the Isle of Man TT pages already mentions the safety issues.

In respect to your comments appearing the edit summary box of "IOM resident appears partisan non-neutral" of the 24th May 2014 in the Isle of Man TT pages, I have discussed many safety issues in the Talk Pages of the Isle of Man TT. A major issue that have raised is the number of fatal road traffic accidents RTA accidents that occur during the Isle of Man TT festival and Manx Grand Prix. During the period 1986-2004 the number of fatal RTA accidents to members of the public during the Isle of Man TT Festival was significantly higher than than deaths to competitors during racing. However, there has been a reduction to the number of fatal RTA since 2004 and also a reduction in the number of deaths to competitors on the Snaefell Mountain Course which has been due to additional safety fencing and more significantly the abandonment of the early morning practice sessions.

The Dakar Rally has been considered to be statistically the most dangerous event with approximately 1.9 deaths per event compared to 1.23 per event for the Snaefell Mountain Course. The Dakar Rally has also a high number of deaths to spectators and officials. During the period 1911-1939 the number of fatal accidents at the Indy 500 Races was 28 compared to 21 fatal accidents on the Snaefell Mountain Course. The first accident at the Isle of Man TT races occurred in 1911 at one of the slowest parts of the course and it is believed to be the first fatal automotive accident on the Isle of Man. In respect to the number of fatal accidents on the Snaefell Mountain Course the most dangerous parts of the course is also one of the slower section of the course and problems to competitors are caused to changes in direction on a downhill section of the course. The second most dangerous section of the Snaefell Mountain Course in respect to fatal accidents to competitors is a medium fast speed section which is the only part of the course which has experienced two double fatal accidents. In comparison, an accident occurred 1 km north of this second section in 2009 when a sidecar crew were badly injured after a collision with an European Brown Hare at a speed in access of 150 mph. There are many different reason why fatal accidents occur and recently three spectators died in an accident at the 2014 Jim Clark Rally

In respect to safety issues, the Isle of Man TT pages and other pages have been deliberatively been left under-developed. This may not be an ideal situation and the Isle of Man TT Race are due to be completely written in the style of other major sporting events like the Tour de France. I have had to ask other contributors not to add whimsical, flippant or inappropriate comment in the edit summary when adding new additions to the List of Snaefell Mountain Course fatal accidents page. However, another inappropriate comment by user MGGK occurred on the 2nd June 2014. I finally note about Isle of Man residents, this morning I have been trying to add the 2014 Superstock TT times and found that the official practice times had conflicting and incorrect information. Agljones 12:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Input on image decision

Hi you are invited to vote for the image to be used on the LG G2 infobox page at Talk:LG G2. Thanks! GadgetsGuy (talk) 06:37, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

June 2014

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BSA Lightning

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Tommy Robb

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Orphaned non-free image File:Münch 4 1200 logo.JPG

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Thanks for uploading File:Münch 4 1200 logo.JPG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 20:41, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

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August 2014

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• recreational routes of the Pleasley and [[Silverhill, Nottinghamshire|Silverhill]] Trails.<ref>[http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/enjoying/countryside/nature-reserves/teversal-trails/ Pleasley

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License tagging for File:John Hartle portrait.JPG

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Mach III crop, photoshop

I reverted your edited version of the photo File:Kawasaki 500SS Mach III H1.jpg at commons because the original image is being used in an article and we prefer to avoid photoshopped images, per WP:MC-MOS, in motorcycling articles. We wanted to keep the view bikes in a natural context, to provide scale and so forth. Even if it doesn't look pretty. You're still welcome to upload an edited version of File:Kawasaki 500SS Mach III H1.jpg, but just do it under a different file name so both versions can be used. We can discuss the photo guidelines further at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycling if you like. Thanks! --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:56, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Windy Corner, Isle of Man#RfC: Proposed merge to Snaefell Mountain Course

Hi Rocknrollmancer. You participated in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Windy Corner, which was closed as "no consensus". The AfD was taken to Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2014 November 27#Windy Corner where opinions are split between "endorse" and "overturn". I have started an RfC at Talk:Windy Corner, Isle of Man#RfC: Proposed merge to Snaefell Mountain Course. Cunard (talk) 01:19, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

This is for you, drink up, you need the energy to keep up all the excellent work you do for the great Wikipedia. Joe Vitale 5 (talk) 10:01, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

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Wainwright Primary Academy

Sorry was confused! Have corrected it now. - Bleaney (talk) 20:52, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

deleted non-notable name in caption AGAIN, re-added maintenance tags deleted by IP 86.164.17.56 suggestive of involvement with manufacturer concerned, please read WP:COI, WP:PROMOTION Wikipedia is not a commercial promotional medium

Hi thank you for your edits. May I ask you to clarify the following statement: "suggestive of involvement with manufacturer concerned" Thankyou — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.102.187 (talk) 01:01, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

"suggestive of involvement with manufacturer concerned" refers to the name "Peter Solman" being added previously, removed by myself, then was re-added soon after together with "Hesketh works rider". This implies some knowledge of the individual and business concerned. I did try to superficially Google-up the name, but only noticed a Twitter (or similar type) entry. Rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:41, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Rocknrollmancer to confirm Peter Solman is in full time employment with Hesketh Motorcycles as "Works rider" and "Technical Director". Please free to contach Hesketh Motorcycles to confirm this. On this basis you above statement is correct in as much as you could not verify but Peter Solman is actually linked with Hesketh Motorcycles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.102.187 (talk) 09:50, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

OK thanks for the info. Wikipedia does not normally name individuals unless they are the subject of independent press coverage which signifies them as 'notable', that is, outstanding in some ongoing way. rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:21, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Derek Minter

Hi Rocknrollmancer, Thanks for your message re citatitions etc. I must admit I was a bit uneasy about BSN but the only other one I could find at the time was crash.net, so lesser of evils... Anyways I've now replaced it with one from MCN which I think is better. Must have missed it last night! Thanks for the link to the FB page... (FB not acceptable for citations I am told). AS for when the straight was re-named, I have some mags from late 60s when it was still Portobello but do not know when it was changed. It was Minter by early 80s I'm pretty sure, but I expect finding a precise date would be quite difficult. I think it was when the rest of the circuit was re-named but do not recall when that was. Sorry. Regards. Eagleash (talk) 18:14, 9 January 2015 (UTC) PS who put "Derrick" in the persondata?!! Eagleash (talk) 18:14, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

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Italian motorcycle Grand Prix

I apologize for my delayed response. Wouldn't the MotoGP web site qualify as a reputable source for the Nations Grand Prix name? In any case, I will look for a hard copy source from my literature but, unfortunately, I will be away from home for another two weeks before I will have access to my books.Orsoni (talk) 10:19, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

@Orsoni: OK thanks no problem with time-frame. I am the world's worst for acceptance of websites, most of which I regard as unregulated, that is, not associated with a publishing house. I have written most of the Derek Minter page and when he died a few days ago I am seeing what I wrote on websites. The fear here is that someone writes anything on Wikipedia in 2006 or 2008, it gets picked up by a self-published site, then someone else much later provides the same info as a verification, as in WP:CIRCULAR.

I usually try to cross-source where possible using two or three, as mistakes are made, even in hard-published, expensive books. I've only skimmed-through so far but I've found a Jarno Saarinen image, the original source of which quotes 1971 Imola, and the Wikipedia aspects quote Monza for that year. I don't recognise the corner, maybe you do? Imola is stated to run backwards, and there are few right-handers.

File:Jarno Saarinen at 1971 Nations motorcycle Grand Prix.jpg

Wikimedia Commons description, English: Jarno Saarinen at 1971 Nations motorcycle Grand Prix, Monza, Italy

Source in Italy: Motociclismo

Source description: Dalla Finlandia, Jarno Saarinen inaugura una posizione in sella ancora attuale: corpo “lanciato” vero l’interno della curva, ginocchio a sfiorare l’asfalto. Qui in piega al Gran Premio delle Nazioni del 1971, a Imola.

Google translation: From Finland, Jarno Saarinen inaugurates a riding position still present: body "launched" the true inside of the bend, knee to touch the asphalt. Here in the fold at the Grand Prix of Nations, 1971, in Imola.

It's those sort of discrepancies that I look out for. Rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:41, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Gooseneck, Isle of Man, pics and other

Thanks! for responding about photos for Gooseneck, Isle of Man, within the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gooseneck, Isle of Man. You said you'd try to get a photo, great, but suggested a demotivating factor is that the article and other named corners are subject to the nom's agenda to delete. Well, having photos would help bolster the articles, help defend from deletion, is another way to look at it. So even if the only pics you can find are pretty low quality, they would still help, and as thumbnail pics in the article, it doesn't matter too much. I think it would suggest/challenge people to provide better pics next year.

Also each of the articles could be added to, with details of riders and spectators who died there or nearby, and also about memorials in place there. This can be sourced, and is detailed info that is not suitable for merging into one too-big article, which also defends the pages. I commented about that info, will comment more, at Talk:Snaefell Mountain Course#sources, including data of deaths and memorials, for articles. I see there are a couple responses there. Thanks again, and keep up the good work! By the way i was generally ignorant about the Isle of Man TT races, and have found it interesting to learn a bit....actually i like the angle of the academic studies exploring spectator views of risk and masculinity and so on. Cheers, --doncram 04:27, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, agreed, @Doncram:, point taken - this deletion sequence has been ongoing since the autumn (no idea of the numbers of the many nominations or the outcomes, either delete or merge, but is a bloody shame as once it's gone only an admin can see the content (admittedly poor for some articles). I agree that sequential articles could be usefully merged, for example Sulby Bridge leading to Ginger Hall. I threw together Ginger Hall at the kitchen table where I am now 10.55 AM; it was subsequently deleted but I see recently re-created as Ginger Hall, Isle of Man.

I, too, had a nasty moment at the Gooseneck on 'closed' roads in 1982, that is, one-way only across the mountain on Mad Sunday, about 7.00PM when it was quiet. A Manx registered Mini City came the 'wrong' way but fortunately - as right handers are 'open' - meaning one can and should look across - I was able to handle it, although disturbed, and only rode on the white line for the remainder where necessary. I stopped at the next police presence at the Bungalow a few miles on and they confirmed no car had passed them so I assume it just came from the side road at the Gooseneck which leads down to the road aligned up the coast to Ramsey. Could have been a lot worse further back along the course at the left-hand Ramsey Hairpin as that bike, a Suzuki Katana 1000 missed second to first gear often and I'd previously run on a bit when trying to get a gear, when using my own 'normal' side of the road

BTW, we were able to spectate on the inside of the Gooseneck back then. This is a pic of Hailwood during the 250 race in 1978 - I would have been just to the left on the inside banking! The Flickr images with few spectators appear to be practise! rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:04, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

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contact

Hi, i wonder if we could share some stuff by email, like about articles and photos in the IOM races area. I have some to send you. I see your account here not email-enabled (for others to be able to email you from a link that would appear at left), but my account is enabled. You could email me from link at left of my User and User-talk pages. Privacy-wise, all that gives up is that we each learn each other's email address, for whatever email account we choose to use for Wikipedia-related email, if that matters. No problem if not interested or not convenient now or whatever, no reply necessary. cheers, --doncram 17:15, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

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Honda CD175

Hi Rocknrollmancer, Thanks for your edits on the CD175 page. You are right, the article needs a quite a bit of work, as do many bike articles on Wiki. I have stumbled upon several which have been just a couple of lines, no infobox, a picture, if included at all, not conventionally displayed and full of "it's my bike so I know all about it etc." together with a bulleted list of unref'd over detailed technical specifications. I often try to fettle these articles up but willing as I am to help I don't have a great stock of reference material. And I often wonder how they get accepted in the first place? Anyway, just sounding off... (still on the lookout for refs for the Minter straight!). Regards Eagleash (talk) 22:09, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Hey @Eagleash: Ash, or is it leash? . This CD175 has been on my mental 'to do' list for two years, but I am now winding down my contributions just to simple edits, citations and images, not so much the prose. The problem is that I have a reluctance to re-write or overwrite in case I am in the wrong (and I have been...) and it takes hours of input. Often there is a boon - even with an obscure, unpopular article - in that I gain an unexpected bonus for my core research project(s) off-Wikipedia. One is nine months behind. I've taken to 'seeding' test edits firstly to lure-out the controlling factions and POV-pushers - an article is static then after one change, someone else is jumping all over it (not that I would be any different). The CD175 trashy content mostly emanates from here. I eventually trawl throught the histories when I have to, but now I feel better about overwriting it. This is where t-bone stamped frame comes from - I can't make up my mind whether this one-time wonder is English or American - nothing conclusive. Needs an image, I think there's only one with a pressed steel frame on Flickr (in the Sammy Miller museum), I can't make up my mind if the uploader is English first language. I guess I'll have to send a simple message firstly to see if they are agreeable to changing the licence. BTW, I saw your Danny Light-thingy earlier - found his birth but not death - there are omissions in the records, but did he die abroad? 'Derek' pics here rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:59, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi again, ah now well... my initials are A.S.H. and the Eagle part is a convoluted story but to cut it short comes basically from the fact that I follow Crystal Palace F.C. (though not an avid fan really). I see what you mean about the editor whose contribs you linked to. I don't think I've heard of a "T-bone" previously either. If I was asked I would probably surmise that the bike had a similar layout to the CD200 & CD125 but they are both later and I really have no idea what changes might have occured in the intervening period. The 125 and 200 had 'open diamond, engine as stressed member' type frames and in the pic of the CD175, the frame looks very similar to those bikes. But Wiki doesn't like "guessing"... :P

As for Danny Light, he was last known to be living in West Sussex, but I don't know where he died. I am posting on the CPFC forum hoping that the book author will see it and be able to fill in some blanks. (Oh, did read Dennis' contribution before it vanished!) Best. Eagleash (talk) 00:05, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

May 2015

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to Wikipedia. However, please remember that editors do not own articles and should respect the work of their fellow contributors on Honda CB400F. If you create or edit an article, remember that others are free to change its content. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia.

See this edit summary: [27] "if you're going to homogenise and sanitise my reference into a contrived template format, watch out for too-many quotation marks....."

See also Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers. Formatting citations is difficult, and everyone makes mistakes!

Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:24, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk Page

Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia WP:NA Do not use my talkpages for personal attacks or user my talkpage to converse with another editor. Consider this a warning. It has been explained to you before that I do not have administrator rights and I cannot delete articles and do not make any further personal comments. In regard to flags Wikipedia states that "Many editors, however, feel that the UK's subnations in particular are an exception in sporting contexts." agljones(talk)18:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

For the information of those watching my talk page, the author of the message above has been blocked for six months as a Sockpuppet Master with the alt account 11thmilestone blocked indefinitely; I contributed in a small way to his exposure.

agljones has repeatedly reverted, deleted, removed under the guise of "sub edited" and otherwise interfered-with several-to-many of my contributions to various Isle of Man and/or Isle of Man TT Races articles, which he has historically been allowed to unilaterally control through attrition and bullying. I have identified him, IRL, and also his employer which indicates/confirms a conflict of interest - as I always suspected when he firstly launched into me in May, 2014:

* where I cited existing prose x3
* prose and citations deleted by agljones
* reverted by myself with the edit-summary "rvt with clarification, deletion of prose + 3 sources by IOM resident appears partisan non-neutral COI"
* immediately reverted by agljones

At which point I gave up fighting against an obsessive, controlling individual on this particular edit-sequence, and eventually all Isle of Man articles.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I now find - as expected - agljones has implicated me into the reasons for his block. If any admin requests, I will continue to compile pairs of diffs to confirm all of the deletions to my contributions made by this individual - I guessed at around twenty some months ago.

The article I referred to as deleted by agljones (which I threw together at the kitchen table when initially proposed for deletion Oct/Nov 2014) was, after consensus, relocated by the nom/editor into another article and was thus able to be deleted by agljones, -1,787 bytes, 14 Dec 2014 [28]. agljones recreated the article Ginger Hall, Isle of Man 11 Feb 2015 [29].--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Talk Page

Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia WP:NA Do not use my talkpages for personal attacks or user my talkpage to converse with another editor. Consider this a warning. It has been explained to you before that I do not have administrator rights and I cannot delete articles and do not make any further personal comments. In regard to flags Wikipedia states that "Many editors, however, feel that the UK's subnations in particular are an exception in sporting contexts." agljones(talk)18:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

For the information of those watching my talk page, the author of the message above has been blocked for six months as a Sockpuppet Master with the alt account 11thmilestone blocked indefinitely; I contributed in a small way to his exposure.

agljones has repeatedly reverted, deleted, removed under the guise of "sub edited" and otherwise interfered-with several-to-many of my contributions to various Isle of Man and/or Isle of Man TT Races articles, which he has historically been allowed to unilaterally control through attrition and bullying. I have identified him, IRL, and also his employer which indicates/confirms a conflict of interest - as I always suspected when he firstly launched into me in May, 2014:

* where I cited existing prose x3
* prose and citations deleted by agljones
* reverted by myself with the edit-summary "rvt with clarification, deletion of prose + 3 sources by IOM resident appears partisan non-neutral COI"
* immediately reverted by agljones

At which point I gave up fighting against an obsessive, controlling individual on this particular edit-sequence, and eventually all Isle of Man articles.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I now find - as expected - agljones has implicated me into the reasons for his block. If any admin requests, I will continue to compile pairs of diffs to confirm all of the deletions to my contributions made by this individual - I guessed at around twenty some months ago.

The article I referred to as deleted by agljones (which I threw together at the kitchen table when initially proposed for deletion Oct/Nov 2014) was, after consensus, relocated by the nom/editor into another article and was thus able to be deleted by agljones, -1,787 bytes, 14 Dec 2014 [30]. agljones recreated the article Ginger Hall, Isle of Man 11 Feb 2015 [31].--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

IoM notes

Thanks for sharing above. About being "implicated" I would not worry about it. Your comments were justified and helpful; they helped me certainly, when I had reason to be down about my efforts. Right now I could respond point-by-point to those quotes about you and the ones about me, but there's no appropriate venue or reason to do so right now, and no response is necessary I believe. Most experienced editors here will understand very well what went on, if reviewing them in any future proceeding.

About the Ginger Hall deletion by Agljones, that was confusing for me to figure out when I saw it mentioned recently. I'll note it here before I lose it, as this might help later. What I reconstruct is:

• another editor, not a big supporter of IoM TT named corners coverage (call them NS for non-supporter) had put up article Ginger Hall for deletion.
• There was bad stuff said there, unnecessarily.
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ginger Hall eventually closed "No consensus".
• NS chose, on their own, to merge and redirect it. I'm not sure whether that was good practice or not; editors are usually allowed to make judgments and move materials, but less so when the material and its location is disputed/controversial. More so if they are supporting/shepherding the topic treatment carefully not to offend others.IMHO anyone would have been entitled to revert that. Merge and redirect were:

• 8 December 2014: a cut-and-paste of entire Ginger Hall article into a new section of Snaefell Mountain Course. Then walk away. Not helpful at all: it was obviously out of place there. Edit was [this diff just plopping it in "(→‎Named corners: merged)"
• 8 December 2014: [in this diff changed Ginger Hall to be a simple redirect to Snaefell Mountain Course, not even directing it to the new section (perhaps as NS rightly assumed the section would not last). Ginger Hall right now is a redirect to List of named corners of Snaefell Mountain Course#Table row Ginger Hall
• 14 December: Agljones deleted the entire passage at Snaefell Mountain Course in Minor-tagged edit with summary "TT competitors only (Ginger Hall previously deleted for lack of notability, no secondary sources,editor unfamiliar with subject, not A14 road( B8 Claddagh Road)". That was not helpful either; whether Agljones meant to or not they were the person removing all Ginger Hall content from Wikipedia, even though the AfD failed to support that. They were right it did not belong there, but there were better alternatives (work some into the Named corners section; ask others what can be done; obtain consensus to revert the merger and redirect; open a list-article)
• 11 February 2015‎, Agljones creates new Ginger Hall, Isle of Man article. As a brand new article!, not restoring from redirect and using the previous version. I have since edited there in minor ways. The article, like others, in fact fails to assert or explain importance (a speedy deletion criteria). It says Ginger Hall is a road junction, but is written as if the general area is the topic and as if the area is notable. The references included probably do not provide substantial coverage of Ginger Hall as an area; it would be reasonable to expect they provide mere mentions of the name in a sentence or two (or not even that).

Further notes

• By the way, references which are completely inadequate for supporting notability of a separate article, especially when stretched for that purpose, can be perfectly adequate for supporting non-stretched small assertions in a list-item. The notability issue for a list-article is at the list-article level (and the listing of named corners is well-established); editors at a list-article can define list-item notability by any reasonable local consensus.
• Reasonable people would agree a full article's worth of Ginger Hall treatment didn't belong in the SMC article. What was called for by a number of editors in previous AfDs was a list-article, i see later, eventually. To me arriving in February at Windy Corner AFD it seemed obvious that a List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course can serve well to index the existing named corner articles that have any substance and support their continued existence, and to serve as a reasonable redirect target for named corner articles that have virtually no content. I created that; Agljones contested every aspect of it; I have just restored it from A's last edit.
• When I look at it now the original Ginger Hall article just after AFD concluded, was a reasonable two-sentence stub article. It honestly and directly states "Ginger Hall is an uphill left-hand bend following ... a popular vantage point ...." It arguably could be moved into one row in the list-article, but it is also okay IMO as a stub. More about the Ginger Hall Hotel could/should be added.
• If substantial material never emerges so it can be developed a bit more (more than what can be said conveniently in a description in the list-article row) then it could possibly be merged and redirected to the list-article row, later.
• Right now what makes sense to me is for the original Ginger Hall article to be restored and expanded a bit, for the new one to be deleted entirely, for the original to be moved to the "Ginger Hall, Isle of Man" location. I think I can see to that being done (in part by the wp:RM process), I guess, so will do so. Feel free to develop the original article.
• I do see in this sequence of events that Rocknrollmancer, your perfectly good start on an article was trashed several times over, and it would certainly be undermining of anyone's willingness to contribute in this area. I am "here to stay" in terms of supporting reasonable development of IoM TT treatment; I do find it interesting. I hope that others can come back or join anew, while there is a breather. And hopefully also the now-blocked-for-socking editor will return and contribute constructively (I hope they will participate chiefly by contributing factual information and making concrete, specific suggestions at Talk pages in an incremental, Wikipedian process). No one is enjoying anything about this. I do appreciate their knowledge and their willingness to put in effort. I put in a lot of effort myself, trying to help, trying to decipher/extract positive contributions. I was almost ready to open an administrative proceeding towards obtaining a ban on editing in this area or otherwise address the situation. I have a lot documented, but will not proceed with that now. Hopefully a break will help us all -- I have been blocked myself (unfairly IMO) and found it to go by quickly and to have been a good thing in many ways.
• I hope this helps; it helps me to get this recorded. --doncram 01:46, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I firstly encountered agljones just over a year ago, reverting me and spuriously asserting that Paris-Dakar was the world's most dangerous motorcycle race when it is incomparable, being mixed-vehicle and quite unlike TT races - not a closely-controlled, circuitous, multi-lap road-race, + the speeds, at up to 200 mph, are more than twice as high; his obsessive control over the IoM articles (more than could reasonably be expected through mere 'Stewardship') caused me watch his partisan, non-neutral, pro-Manx contributions to get a 'flavour' of the individual's motivations and topics, particularly in adding many, many infobox flagicons - with two flags for each IoM-based competitor - swamping many articles, contrary to established protocols and not consistent with the good-compliance expected of an editor with reviewer-rights (what I referred to as a "one-striper") who needs to be neutral. Eventually I noticed a series of intended deletions - "supermarket shopping", I learned, was the Wikijargon used to describe the nom/NS's activities. Many of the smaller, poor stubs could (have) be(en) merged into the preceding/following articles as listed in the course template - given adequate time - as it was back then. Suspicious of the nom/NS, I surveilled 'their' worklist, which led me to other IoM articles. Due to the urgency with AfD-type pressures, I added what I could, but not always the 'best', often just an expedient. The Ginger Hall edit-summary sniping remark "not A14 road, (B8 Claddagh Road)" was targeted at me - in my haste I erroneously glanced at the map when adding the prose about back-road links to The Bungalow, redlinked as agljones has renamed some as Anyplace, Isle of Man.

For an example of what you may not know, in November 2014, start here with particular attention here for agljones determined overwrite and deletion of my content with sources, not an expansion, under the guise of "sub-edit" just 10 hours later, particularly the You Tube crash sequence Conor Cummins' 2010 World-known crash at the Verandah.

agljones complains he did not delete my contributions - simply much wasted effort on my part, quickly deleted by a controlling, complete reprobate, a partisan, pro-Manx editor who does not intend to allow neutrality which could show the IoM in a bad light. I had to accept this, fearing more of the same warring from a seasoned edit-warrior as previously. Eventually I lost all interest due to agljones' singular control involving deletions and/or other interference + whinging about the unsuitability of images according to his personal requirements, and took the decision to abandon any involvement in the IoM articles, mostly with removal from my watchlist, except for an occasional talk-page comment prompted by seeing the same hackneyed old arguments time after time from the same individual - what the nom/NS described during protracted interactions with agljones as "tl;dr" (again, like supermarket shopping, a learning experience for me - in this instance via Google).

All of this causes much down-time, at a point when I have been intending to 'step-away' from Wikipedia, so it matters not if I am blocked - Wikipedia will ultimately suffer. My comments were accurate, not abusive; no comments would have been necessary without the concerted interference I experienced. Deletion of contributions and valid references cannot be sanctioned by dint of WP:OWN

As I am involved in much other research for non-Wikipedia consequences, inevitably this often leads to small additions which could improve the readability and encyclopedic content which I would try to add, if no interference was assured, as with Kepple Gate. All this nastiness/nasty mess is not what I 'signed up' for, so I hope the Block reviewers read this.

Should agljones be unblocked (reading his assurances of (faux) contrition - he had flu and knew of a death locally, he completely forgot he had a long-standing alt account...but remembered the login detail...? And the quasi-scripture is outrageous) - then, if I'm still unblocked, I expect to be subjected to more pent-up wrath.

Lastly, I have had to abandon other articles unconnected with IoM, entirely on principle due to dissatisfaction with those trying - fully intending - to control; accordingly, anticipate there are some of these surveilling me.....Again, this is not what I 'signed up' for. Rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk)

Again(21 June), agljones is trying to implicate me in the block sequence - entirely expected, as it was I who uncovered the two images provided as unequivocal evidence of the two usernames being one person. I have shown above some more evidence of the concerted contol/deletion/overwrite sequences where he removed prose and references within 10 hours on The Verandah 12 November 2014. I have already provided evidence of deletions of contributions and references, and of deleting an entire article when the opportunity arose, despite agljones protestations he did not do it, it was established. Because of this expected warring (started in May 2014) from a long-term controlling individual who has historically been allowed over-riding authority on the IoM portal-type articles, I gradually had to abandon any such articles, taking off my watchlist, and have had little-to-no contact with this individual. Despite the evidence I could have provided, I chose to step away and avoid likely confrontation, knowing this was a long-term, seasoned edit warrior and wikilawyer but I did offer occasional talk page comments on the continual/continuing control trying to be effected by agljones on IoM articles. Accordingly, I have not had any contact with this individual for months, from memory the last comment was March 2015. I did not receive any warning from anyone for abuse. By abandoning WP:AGF and WP:OWN in deleting/overwriting prose and substantial references, agljones forfeited any considerations and was not entitled to faux-respect - he gets back what he started, but in a different way.

I have no accurate memories of the magnitude of deletions to my contributions. I have evidenced The Verandah above, other potential instances are Ginger Hall, Gooseneck, Windy Corner and maybe Brandish and Hillberry - I haven't checked and will not do so, wasting more time, without good reason - as stated I generally abandoned all or most Isle of Man articles months ago. I have now resumed improvements on a few IoM articles, and will continue provided agljones remains blocked. If he succeeds in unblock attempts by way of faux-contrition and spurious allegations against me when I abandoned the articles months ago, then I will again abandon improvments to IoM articles which I know need a different focus from a non-COI, non-controlling, neutral contributor.

As stated above, this nastiness - whinging, sniping, gaming the system and Wikilawyering is not what I anticipated. My niece is a website moderator on a children's portal - this is similar, but the determined, bullying individuals are supposed to be adults.

I have now started to go through agljones and 11thmilestone contributions - already I have reverted one unnecessary deletion where an online source was replaced by a reference to hard-copy (I retained both sources, being best-practice) and improved the table entry with correct wikilinks. This needed neutral editing, not from a partisan/pro-IoM, singularly-motivated, one-topic-only individual who thinks he can do it better than anyone else, to the exclusion/deletion of their contributions and references, without a second thought.

In his unblock request agljones is asserting first offence for a long-term editor - this is worse, as long-term implies fuller-knowledge of Wikipedia and therefore his determined transgression cannot be regarded as trivial or innocent, merely carefully-considered. The only regret he may experience is being exposed, otherwise the duplicity would have continued.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Rocknrollmancer, thank you for your good edits to several articles. For example your copyediting the Brandywell article is excellent IMO. You vastly improved the lede in the Keppel Gate article. I believe you have made a correction in this edit at Bray Hill, and tho it is a bit beyond me technically, i do believe you that it is an important correction. I appreciate that you added to List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course. I hope you think the development there is going well. I added some more of the more notable corners. Now finally it is not just me contributing, yay! And I switched over a section of the important Isle of Man TT article into being more encyclopedic, i.e. sourcing all facts asserted rather than tolerating unsourced info. Do let's both keep developing.

About building a group of constructive editors, I hope/expect that others will find their way back to editing in the Isle of Man TT area. I posted invitation to others to help with sourcing and comment on other matters at the Talk page. Another thing I/we can do is to pose a discussion question or two, like for a resolution to cover rather than to suppress mentions of the danger and the accidents that happen in IoM TT racing. And to invite all persons who have commented in AfDs during the last year to comment. That will reach some good editors who had only commented in passing, and will likely increase reasonable editing in IoM area.

Please don't be bothered by ridiculous assertions of a blocked editor about you (and me) at his Talk page. Contriving to twist the term "pro-Manx" into a racist expression is nonsense. Let me say for you, so you don't feel you have to reply: it is nonsense! It is nonsense for anyone to assert Rocknrollmancer has any iota of racism. And in fact the assertion is an unjustified personal attack along the lines of what that editor is trying to complain about. Do let's--you and me--follow the advice in wp:NPA about personal attacks, and basically ignore them, and basically not discuss the editor. Anyhow, please understand that administrators considering the blocked editor's requests will likely not comment about them, so don't be disappointed that the accusations aren't investigated or dealt with in any way. If they do ignore the comments, these administrators would be following the generally good advice: "editors are encouraged to disregard angry and ill-mannered postings of others when it is reasonable to do so, and to continue to focus their efforts on improving and developing the encyclopedia" and they would complete their job to process the request with a reasonable judgment about the sockpuppeting. Their not commenting should be interpreted as their understanding completely, and choosing not to respond, and their focussing instead on getting on with matters. (This posting by me is technically a response, too, but I really will prefer not to respond at all to further outbursts there.)

Anyhow...you and I both can and should continue with positive development, that's the best way to get over past nonsense. Hmm, it is rather late and it is raining very hard, with rumbling thunder, where I am. Happy it will cool things off and it will be a nice day tomorrow. :) Cheers, --doncram 06:04, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks a bunch - the reason I have added comments with links is that I don't have a user page to which I can attach a sub-page tabulating the changes made to my contributions by agljones - maybe I should do exactly this. I will continue to check on these alterations to my contributions, but on an ad hoc basis, wherever I encounter it. I have encountered two or three controlling individuals, all ten year veterans, but I do not suppose any would delete good prose supported by reliable sources (or overwrite), just for obsessive personal preferences. agljones has been a partisan, pro-IoM editor, which is fine...but not to the point of singular-topic, non-neutrality and exclusion of others' contributions.

When requested not to include spoilers in the edit summary of race-results [32], agljones nonchalantly suggested that the other editor remove the page from his watchlist. Moreover, agljones has been using Wikipedia wrongly as a press source trying to beat other editors in adding the race-info in real-time [33], adding "The Bruce Anstey photo was added while the Supersport press conference was still in progress and was possibly one of the first images on the internet of the winner. Perhaps you would like remove the page of the watchlist". Normally, I sandbox Wikipedia article drafts and then save as a draft webmail, privately, but felt this infomation about agljones - when he contests having deleted 20 of my contributions - should be made publicly available, like the spurious tagging of images: Brandywell 15 March 2015 [34], at The Bungalow, Isle of Man with the repositioning and size-change 3 June 2014 [35] followed by the spurious tagging [36] 15 March 2015. It helps me to keep track of the changes.

The edit content you don't understand at Bray Hill ([37]) is where an editor in GF wrongly captioned as "scraping of the road surface created by the foot rests of the motorcycles as their suspension compresses". The footrests are well-clear of the ground, as they should be have to be at 160mph. Only when the bikes are extremely heeled-over (AKA leaned over, banked or banked-over and other terms) do the footpegs come anywhere near the ground. The levels of banking at the top and bottom of Bray Hill are slight. This can be seen in the Joey Dunlop pic File:JoeyDunlopTT1992BrayHill.jpg where the foot pegs (formatted differently, foot rests, footrests, foot pegs, footpegs - all are correct) can be deduced to be 8 or 9 inches from the ground.

In modern FIM-controlled racing (which the ACU in UK is aligned to), the motorcycle fairing belly pans are catch-tanks designed and intended to contain up to 1 gallon of engine oil and 1 gallon of coolant in the event of sudden explosive engine failure (figures of 1 gallon each are notional, just for an example). Repeated grounding and impacts (abnormal compared with short circuit racing) at various points around the course could cause abrasion and/or stress-fracturing, wearing away and potentially causing the belly-pan to break-away, dangerously. I am not an expert in modern IoM machine preparation, but I imagine there are titanium sliders attached to the belly-pan as abrasion-resistance and physical reinforcement. See You Tube sparks at Bray Hill compression. The solo lines across the course can vary by 3 or 4 feet in many places. I further surmise that sidecar outfits have similar devices and they too may cause gouges in the road surface. Hope this helps. BTW, I am more of an inclusionist, and, if anything, pro-Manx but not obsessively so. Always a pleasure.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:19, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

PS. I've only just seen the agljones' 'racist' complaint...really is puerile, despicable and clutching at straws. Agljones has waged a concerted war against me from May/June 2014, abandoning WP:AGF in that editors have the right to expect that good contributions with sources should not be reverted, overwritten or otherwise intefered-with, witnessed by spurious and deliberate CopyVio tagging of images I added. WP:OWN does not sanction this amount of control for one individual to target another. I had to abandon the articles, removing from Watchlist, and distance myself from agljones from March 2015 until June 2015 when I confirmed the deception of contributing via two usernames. By abandoning and disrespecting basic Wikpedia precepts of WP:AGF and WP:OWN, agljones behaved in an unacceptable manner, forfeiting any rights restricting commenting to the edits, not the individual; it has become necessary to establish the motivation and determination of the individual which has caused all of this warring, necessitating firm comments, not faux respect and humility as a reward for concerted deletion of contributions.

If agljones succeeds in having me sanctioned or blocked, as stated earlier, it matters not as I've already stated my intention at least twice elsewhere that I am drifting-away in any case, just doing references, images, logos, not so much prose expansion. Ultimately, Wikipedia would suffer, not me.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:42, 23 June 2015 (UTC)