Talk:Naagin (2015 TV series)

Proposed merge with Naagin (season 2)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to merge Naagin (season 2) to Naagin (2015 TV series). This is an uncontroversial merge proposal. The S2 article was created prematurely with no awareness of WikiProject Television norms. We don't create standalone articles unless there is sufficient content to require it. In this case there isn't even an episode list for S1 or S2, so child articles are unwarranted. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:19, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

---

There's no clear justification for a standalone article for this series. Most TV series don't have unique articles for each season unless there is sufficient content about the production, cultural impact, list of episodes, etc. to warrant that. The main Naagin (2015 TV series) article has some of that stuff, but the ratings content wasn't maintained, the plot summary is a giant mess, etc. More effort should be made to clean up the main article before splitting into a second season. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:26, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Looking at the season article I can't see any justification either. There's not even an episode list. --AussieLegend (✉) 19:44, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Different seasons no need to merge. Moreover I am removing the merge template from the page. See 24 (TV series) and 24 (season 2) VarunFEB2003 12:39, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

@VarunFEB2003: By what logic do you think that you have consensus to end the merge discussion? What MOS:TV guidelines govern your position about the suitability of the S2 article? You are comparing the second season of 24, an article that has content about the season's plot, along with a comprehensive list of episodes with summaries, and list of awards, with an article that's little more than an unsourced cast list. By what stretch of the imagination is this article ready to exist as a stand-alone? There's not even an article for season 1 like there is for 24 (season 1). The way this usually goes is:

1. Main article on the series is created, i.e. 24 (TV series) or Naagin (Indian TV series)
2. Episode table is created and fleshed out at the main article. This remains at the main article until a second season begins. Meanwhile, we're collecting production information and any other data we can.
3. Once a second season has begun, the S1 episode table is moved to a unique article along with the production and other real-world information we've collected, i.e. SpongeBob SquarePants (season 1)
4. The season 2 article is created with a list of episodes, we start fleshing out the casting/production information, etc.

Your unilateral change seems to take none of this into consideration. The S2 Naagin article is premature at the very least. It's also problematic that you unilaterally moved the article from Naagin (season 2) to Naagin 2 (Indian TV series). Did you even bother asking anyone at WikiProject Television what our normal article naming conventions are for this sort of thing? Naagin 2 sounds like a film sequel. Why did you move Naagin (2015 TV series) to Naagin (Indian TV series)? This is just poor decision-making all around. You need to restore the merge templates at the very least. @AussieLegend: do you have any input on this? Now it seems we have to figure out what the main and sub articles should be titled... Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:12, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

You are all free to revert me if you feel I was wrong. P.S This article is about season 1 and that one about season 2 VarunFEB2003 17:17, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

@VarunFEB2003: So the burden is ours to fix your mistakes? I'm still not clear on how you decided that two other opinions on the matter should be disregarded in favor of your own opinion. I don't see an acknowledgment about that in your response. As for your post-script, this article is about the television series in general as it should be. It's only "about season 1" because only one season has aired. All multiple season articles start with a single main article about the first season, then expand as content warrants. Mr. Smart LION made a questionable call when he created Naagin 2 (Indian TV series) (or whatever it was titled at the time) so prematurely. A season 1 article should have been created first, provided that sufficient content existed, but since we don't even have a list of episodes, even a S1 article would be premature. It would just be a cast list. If either of you plan to dabble in television articles, you both need to familiarize yourselves with MOS:TV and mainstream non-Indian television articles. The headaches that are caused in Indian entertainment articles are astounding, and most of it comes from either a lack of awareness of or an apathy toward established television guidelines at Wikipedia. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:47, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

 Done rollbacked VarunFEB2003 17:54, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

@VarunFEB2003: Thank you. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:49, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

• Support: I don't see any need for two standalone piece on a single topic. If and when more sources emerge to support enough contents that could possibly make navigating through article difficult, we can do a split. Anup [Talk] 14:44, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi! I think that this article should be titled as "Naagin (Indian TV Series)" including the needed content from Naagin (season 2), while I suggest that the Season 2 page should be changed as "Episode List of Naagin (Indian TV Series)" (it could extend too much if the series turns into TV soap opera). I also agree that the Plot section of the page must be updated, from the story told in Episode of 8 October 2016. Also Ratings section should be summarized due to too much repetations. Thanks! M.Billoo2000 (talk) 22:29, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't think we need the extra disambiguation of "Indian" in the title. There's only one TV series titled Naagin as far as our disambiguation page is concerned. Frankly, I think the article would be best titled plainly as Naagin (TV series). We don't tend to add the year unless there's a reason, like to distinguish from other TV shows called Naagin. For example 24 (TV series) has no year, but Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987 TV series), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003 TV series), and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012 TV series) do, because there are three TV series with this title. Note also the lack of "American" in the article titles. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:16, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sloppy parentheticals

The article's starting to get laden with sloppy parentheticals. Note this edit by IP 45.124.198.204. People who are unfamiliar with the series are not going to have any idea what most of this content means. Note:

• Madhura Naik as Mayuri (Icchadari Morni)(Peahen) (2016)

What does Icchadari Morni mean? Is that a name? So then what's Mayuri? Another name? Why is there a name next to a name? What does a peahen have to do with anything? Is this some sort of supernatural form that the character takes? All of this stuff should be explained in clear prose. I have no idea why Indian television article contributors are so afraid to write a complete sentence. It's bizarre. Rather than explain in a sentence, it's better to wedge three parentheticals next to one another? Doesn't make any sense. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:02, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Haven't seen the show, but as far as I can understand, Mayuri is the name of her character and "Icchadari Morni" is its description in Hindi which translates to peahen. - Managerarc™ ^talk 01:27, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

@Managerarc: I appreciate the reply! I'm still confused. I know you don't know the series, but it's unclear why they're calling her a peahen. There's got to be a way to explain this so it makes sense like:

"Madhury Naik as Mayuri - Mayuri is blah blah blah, the daughter of blah, who occasionally takes the form of icchadari morni, (English: peahen)"

Or something similar. Part of the problem is that we're capitalizing Icchadari Morni, which takes on the shape of a name to a non-Hindi-speaker like myself. I must have like a dozen different articles like this on my watchlist that are completely incomprehensible. Shakti — Astitva Ke Ehsaas Ki is another example. "Durshaktina as Churail/Kinner" Is this an actor playing two roles? Are we talking about a transgender ghost? So frickin' confusing. The contributors are writing these articles with no regard for whether anyone who isn't Indian and familiar with the series can understand them. It's like reading a children's television show article. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:15, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Well it's a fantasy series, so it might be true that the character changes its shape from time to time. Regarding the other one, I don't know who Durshaktina is. Never heard or read about any actress by this name ad can't find any source for it either. "Churail" or Churel means witch and "Kinner" means transgender I think. They are definitely not character names.

Yes, I do agree with you regarding the state of articles related to Indian television. They are the most difficult to keep track of because something is being changed every few minutes. Plot summaries are written like novels, no one bothers to add sources, lots of original research, poorly written content. It's far worse than the film articles.- Managerarc™ ^talk 12:58, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Of the dozen or more similar articles on my list, it's almost like there's a systematic effort to have the articles conform with some unseen template. I can't tell you how many times I've removed the "Former cast" section from these articles, (per WP:TVPLOT we care about Main and Recurring, and former cast should intuitively be either in Main or Recurring so we have a better sense of their importance in the series) but random editors keep putting them back in. Argh... And there aren't many editors from WikiProject Television who care about Indian TV articles. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:20, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

WP:TVPLOT and Wikipedia:FAQ/Copyright#Derivative works

In this edit I removed the plot section. It had been flagged for major chopping for four months. Per WP:TVPLOT, plot summaries shouldn't exceed 500 words. The version I chopped was 2877 words in length. Far too long. Additionally, per Wikipedia:FAQ/Copyright#Derivative works, excessively detailed summaries of plots present potential copyright violation concerns, as they can be considered "derivative works". If someone wants to take another stab at it, go right ahead, but you shouldn't exceed 500 words and you should stay focused on the major points in the series, not episode-by-episode details. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:48, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

How character lists work...

This seems to be an issue, so let me explain how character lists should work per WikiProject Television norms. (First, see WP:TVCAST, then see List of Millennium characters, a featured list.)

• Character lists should contain the name of the actor, and the names of roles they play, along with brief descriptions of who the character is.
• We typically break up cast into Main and Recurring cast subsections.
• "Main" is determined by the series' onscreen "starring" credits. If that's not available, then by some official source. "Recurring" is for characters that appear more than once. We shouldn't care about one-off characters. Wikipedia is not IMDb, so we are not required to list every person who appeared more than once, either.
• Guest stars are typically indicated in episode lists.
• "Former cast" is not a valid subsection, because it is not consistent with community consensus, and because it doesn't tell us whether the cast member was part of the Main or Recurring casts. Just because someone leaves a series, does not mean that their role gets buried in a discard pile.
• Per WP:TVCAST, new additions to the cast (whether they are in Main or Recurring) should be added to the bottom of the list. So if Karanvir Bohra joined in S2, he would be added to the bottom of the Main cast list, even if he plays a major role. That's just how WikiProject Television prefers things. We don't reorder cast based on perceived importance. This would constitute original research.
• Having individual cast lists for S1 and S2 is only going to result in duplicate content for no good reason. Cast is presumed to continue as the series progresses, unless we indicate otherwise.

Ex: "Arjun Bijlani as Ritik Singh (Yuvraj) / Sangram Singh - Bijlani left the series after S1."

• We should avoid using slashes per WP:SLASH, because slashes create confusion. Are these people twins? Are they two unique characters? Is one name a nickname for the other? If a character is playing dual roles, that should be explained in prose, with as much detail as needed to communicate to someone who has never seen the series.

Ex: "John Doe in a dual role as Sam and Dave. Dave is a personality imagined by Sam, who suffers from brain trauma. Dave takes the form of a naagin who constantly tempts Sam into doing evil. Sam is constantly trying to avoid listening to Dave, but by the end of S1, Sam's resistance wears down and he starts letting Dave manipulate him to do evil."

• Character tables, like the one found at List of Millennium characters should be used to supplement cast/character information. It should not be used to replace the cast list.
• Once a character list at this article becomes sufficiently full of information (information about the character, casting, real-world info) then it can be branched off into a unique article. But we are far too early for that now.

Here is an example of what Naagin (TV series) should look like at this stage: The Grinder (TV series) Editors should realize that the goal for any article is to make it to Good article or Featured article status. If you continue to delete information and use sloppy parentheticals to indicate facts about a character, or to format the article in a way that is not consistent with MOS:TV you're only bringing the article backwards. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:00, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 December 2016

Plz add kinshuk mahajan to star list 2405:204:520D:628F:0:0:2AB2:48A0 (talk) 19:37, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —MRD2014 (Merry Christmas!) 22:23, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

English , Maths

Actor Ritik khatik (talk) 12:57, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

@Ritik khatik: Was there a point to this comment, or were you just testing the talk page for functionality? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 13:48, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2017

161.0.240.168 (talk) 16:51, 6 February 2017 (UTC) Rudra falls in love with Shivangi.

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 17:02, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Cast section

The cast section (like various other sections in this problematic article) is a mess. See WP:TVCAST for guidance. Listing the cast by season just creates a wall of repetitive content. Do we need Mouni Roy's name three times in that section? Most television articles are interested in a general list of characters organized by their introduction. List of Millennium characters uses a table to summarize noteworthy cast's appearances across seasons, but -- and more importantly, there is a prose section that provides brief summaries of the characters along with real-world content about casting, etc. It's shocking that the people interested in this series have zero awareness that we're building an encyclopedia here, not a crappy version of the show's website. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:04, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

In these edits, I cleaned up the cast list by converting the unnecessary season subsections into parentheticals. I don't particularly care for the parentheticals, but I don't presently have a better idea for how to present this content. I removed the large cleanup template, as most of the issues have been resolved. I removed the refimprove template because a cast section doesn't really need references, as the primary source (the show itself) is used as a source for cast. The items in need of sourcing were claims of certain actors returning for S3, which will not premiere until November. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:34, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Class assessment: 6/17/17 UTC

Hi! I just assigned classes to the WikiProject templates on this page, assigning Start and C classes to the WikiProject India and WikiProject Television templates, respectively. Here is why I did that:

• For the WikiProject India assessment (WP:IN1): The article seems to satisfy all C-class requirements, except that C-class articles "should be free from major grammatical errors", which this article contains. However, the article seems to satisfy all of the Start-class criteria. Therefore, I assumed that the article qualifies for Start-class. Once all major grammatical errors have been fixed, this page should probably be promoted to C-class in the WikiProject India template.
• For the WikiProject Television assessment (WP:TV/A): The article seems to satisfy all B-class requirements, except that B-class articles have to be "reasonably well-written", "[contain] no major grammatical errors", and "[flow] sensibly", and the article fails all of these criteria. However, the article seems to satisfy all of the C-class criteria. Therefore, I assumed that the article qualifies for C-class. Once the prose is fixed appropriately, this page should probably be promoted to B-class in the WikiProject Television template.

If anyone has any questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 05:40, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Are Shesha and Ruchika the same person?

@Pranay Star: As the main editor who adds plot details to this article, I thought that you might know the answer to this question. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 01:13, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, Noah Kastin. Shesha and Ruchika are the same. But Rocky's family only know her as Ruchika. So, I wrote Ruchika. Always writing Shesha does not make sense. So, always talk with me before you set clarifies in the page. Regarding this, I thank you for asking such doubts and making me write perfectly. Pranay Star (talk) 05:22, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

The above comment was moved from User talk:Noah Kastin by Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) at 06:54, 20 June 2017 (UTC). This was done in an effort to keep the discussion centralized.

Thanks for the reply, Pranay Star! Knowing this, I think it would make sense to change all occurrences of "Ruchika" to "Shesha" so that the reader knows who is being talked about. If it is important that Rocky's family knows her as Ruchika, perhaps it should say something in her first Season 2 appearance along these lines:

Shesha (known to Rocky's family as Ruchika)

Also, I'm not quite sure what you meant by "set clarifies". If you could let me know, I would greatly appreciate that!

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 07:02, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Merge Naga Kanyaka into this article?

Hi! I noticed that Naga Kanyaka, an article about a dubbed version of this article's subject, contains a large overlap with this article (as its subject is the same). Therefore, I would like to merge Naga Kanyaka into this article.

If anyone has any suggestions on whether or not Naga Kanyaka should be merged into this article, please let me know. Otherwise, I will merge Naga Kanyaka into this article.

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 02:18, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

• Merge - It's unclear what community guidelines Helper V1 was following when they created an article on a *DUB* of an existing series. Makes no sense to me. Looks like basic unnecessary content forking, especially since the entirety of Naga Kanyaka could be included as a mere paragraph at Naagin (TV series). Cyphoidbomb (talk) 02:48, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I have now merged Naga Kanyaka into this article, though I have not yet cleaned up the section that Naga Kanyaka was merged into. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 22:28, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I have now cleaned up after the merge (in this edit). Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 22:43, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Named footnotes: 6/23/17 UTC

Hi, Azharmohammed! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I noticed that, in this edit, you added a named footnote. While what you did would work if the footnote was defined (i.e. with content included) at a previous point in the article, the reference was not defined at an earlier point. Therefore, the footnote does not work properly.

If you intended to cite a source, you can add the source after the text <ref name="Cast 6", then replace the text /> with </ref>. This will then define the footnote, making it clear what you are citing.

For more details on named footnotes, see WP:REFNAME.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 23:37, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

@Azharmohammed: I just removed the undefined citation (in this edit). Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 03:01, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Confusing edit summary: 6/27/17 UTC

Hi, Pranay Star! Thank you for all of your work on this article!

I was confused by something that you said in the edit summary of your most recent edit (this edit). The thing that confused me was the following line of text:

anyone don't make a clean up

I'm not sure if this is a request for no one to clean up the article. If so, I am requesting permission to edit the article, because it still needs to be copy edited and possibly shortened.

Thanks again for all your great work!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 20:42, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: If I receive no response, I will assume that it is fine for me to edit the article. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 22:35, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Noah Kastin. I requested everyone who edit the article to not make much clean up. It results in the incomplete plot of the TV series, so anyone who reads it does not know reasons for why a situation had occured or what happened to him/her to do a particular thing. I think you understand, I am giving you permission to clean up but do not edit it much. Leave these sentences and don't edit "At the end of the season, Rocky stabs Shivangi for an unknown reason yet to be revealed and Ritik look alike comes and tells Rocky that Shivangi should die for a reason."

Because, it is the sentence which depicts the story of the last episode of Naagin season 2.

Once again, thank you.

Pranay Star (talk) 04:30, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

The above comment was moved from User talk:Noah Kastin by Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) at 04:59, 28 June 2017 (UTC). This was done in an effort to keep the discussion centralized.

Thanks for the update, Pranay Star! Also thanks for giving me the go-ahead to copy edit the article.

I would like to remove some parts of the article which are somewhat irrelevant to the season as a whole (such as "A is revived, only to be killed shortly by B" or "B is killed by C, only to be shortly resurrected by D"). I would like to do this to make identification of important plot points clearer, as well as making the overall word count shorter (per WP:TVPLOT, the season section should be no more than 500 words; however, it is currently 682 words). Would you mind if I compressed the article as suggested? If no answer is given, I will assume that I can do that.

By the way, how much of the sentence that you asked me not to touch is relevant, besides "Later, Rocky inexplicably stabs Shivangi"?

Thanks again for the update!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 05:04, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Ok, Noah Kastin. Edit as much as you want but make it look relevant. Thanking u, Pranay Star. Pranay Star (talk) 1:04 am, Today (UTC−4)

The above comment was moved from User talk:Noah Kastin by Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) at 05:12, 28 June 2017 (UTC). This was done in an effort to keep the discussion centralized.

@Pranay Star: I have now massively compressed the season, bringing it down to 392 words (coincidentally the same number of words as season 1). This should now be fairly concise, highlighting important plot points and complying with the Manual of Style (which it should continue to do even once the "clarification needed" tag is removed). Please let me know if I deleted any really important plot points (which I probably did). Thanks! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 05:35, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Sorry Noah Kastin, you have made it too small after Shivangi's marriage plot. It is irrelevant and I think you must watch naagin series and then understand it and write. Because, you left important sentences i.e. Rocky too became a nag and Shivangi killing all murderers in a way and Rudra's death. I am not telling about episodic plot but to make the plot perfect and suit it. I am now editing it properly and after that, you check it again and ask me if you have any doubts. Pranay Star(talk) 1:54 am, Today (UTC−4)

The above comment was moved from User talk:Noah Kastin by Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) at 17:33, 28 June 2017 (UTC). This was done in an effort to keep the discussion centralized.

Thank you for your changes to the page, Pranay Star! In answer to why I removed the sentences that you mentioned:

I did not intentionally remove Rocky turning into a Naag and helping Shivangi kill Ritik's murderers. Thank you for restoring those; they seem to be fairly important.

As to why I removed the sentence about Rudra dying: I removed that because Rudra seemed to be fairly unimportant to the season plot. The three mentions of him currently are 1) he allies with Shivangi; 2) he is used as a framing device by Shesha; and 3) he dies. As far as I am concerned, him allying with Shivangi is not very important if he doesn't contribute much to the overall season plot, and neither is him dying (again, if he doesn't contribute much to the overall season plot); this is why I removed both of those events from the summary. Then, once he was only in the summary once, I figured he did not need to be called be name (hence the change of "Rudra" to "another person").

By the way, the same reasoning for Rudra applies to why I removed all mention of Avantika from the plot summary. By the time I removed Avantika from the plot, all she did was 1) get summoned; 2) kill Rudra; and 3) get killed. By that point, the only part of that that really helped the plot was that she killed Rudra, and that didn't have to be her; all that was necessary was that Rudra was killed (as long as Rudra was an important enough character to warrant inclusion). This logic also applies to countless other characters who I removed (including Tanya and Jadunath, just to name a couple).

Please let me know if this makes sense. If so, I will once again remove mention of Rudra and Tanya. (If I receive no response, I will remove mentions.) Please also let me know if you have any other questions or opinions.

Thanks again for your contributions!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 17:55, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: I have now altered the article (in this edit) as I had said that I would. Please let me know if you have any comments on this. Thanks! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 07:36, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Confusing edit: 6/29/17 UTC

Hi, Pranay Star! Thank you for your amazing contributions to this article!

In your most recent edit to this page (this edit), two things confused me:

1. You re-added mention of Rudra to the article, seemingly with no explanation. If you can explain why you did this, I would greatly appreciate that!
2. Your edit summary exceeds the maximum character limit, making it difficult to understand what you are trying to communicate, due to the fact that some of your edit summary does not appear. If you can explain what you were trying to say in your edit summary, I would greatly appreciate that, too!

Thank you again for your contributions!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 23:41, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Class assessment: 7/2/17 UTC

Hi! I just reassessed the classes for the WikiProject templates on this page, upgrading the WikiProject India template from Start to B, and leaving the WikiProject Television template at C. Here is why I did those things:

• For the WikiProject India assessment (WP:IN1): The article seems to satisfy all B-class requirements.
• For the WikiProject Television assessment (WP:TV/A): The article seems to satisfy all B-class requirements, except that B-class articles have to be "suitably referenced, with inline citations", as well as "[having] reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged [has to be] cited". The article fails these criteria, as it has some uncited statements. However, the article seems to satisfy all of the C-class criteria. Therefore, I assumed that the article qualifies for C-class. Once all statements are cited appropriately, this page should probably be promoted to B-class in the WikiProject Television template.

If anyone has any questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 09:04, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: - I don't agree with rating of B. 3 of the important sections - Season 1, Season 2 and the cast have pretty much no references. Hence, it should be given a rating of C.

VasuVR (talk, contribs) 13:33, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

@VasuVR: Thank you for your input! Also thank you for letting me know that there are some uncited sections; I have now tagged them appropriately.

About the B rating for WikiProject India: The B rating for WikiProject India does not say that the article needs to be fully cited. What it does say about citations is that "At minimum, [the article] should also have some references to reliable sources". It then goes on to say, "Nonetheless, [the article] has some gaps or missing elements or references, needs editing for language usage or clarity, balance of content, or contains other policy problems such as copyright, Neutral Point Of View (NPOV) or No Original Research (NOR)". Since the only problem that I noticed with the article is that it does not have enough references, I assumed that it passed for B-class in its WikiProject India rating.

On the other hand, the WikiProject Television B rating says that the article must adhere to the six B-Class criteria, one of which says that the article must be "suitably referenced, with inline citations". This is why I rated the article C-class for its WikiProject Television rating. However, the WikiProject India Assessment guideline does not say that the article must adhere to the six B-Class criteria to be rated B-class.

If WikiProject India articles must, in fact, adhere to the six B-Class criteria, I will reduce the rating for it on this article to C. Also, if this is required, the guideline page should probably be changed to express this.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 01:39, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Citations needed: 7/9/17 UTC

Hi! I noticed that the article has many uncited facts in it. As may be noticed, I am in the process of trying to cite more facts, but I need some help doing so. I particularly need help in three areas:

1. I am not familiar enough with policy to know quite what needs citations and what doesn't. In particular, I don't know whether the plot section needs citations or not.
2. I can't read in any language other than English, so I can't use information from non-English reliable sources.
3. I am not sure what facts are likely to be unable to be cited and should thus be removed.

If anyone can help me with any of these issues or in any other way help the article become completely cited, that would be tremendously appreciated.

@Cyphoidbomb and Pranay Star: As the main contributors to this article, I thought that I should let you know. Your help in particular should help this article get better.

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 03:39, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Ok, Noah Kastin. I understood what you are asking about. As you have read the articles of how to write a tv series article, you must be knowing about the citations in that article. You will know the need of citations in that article. If needed citations for plot, then you send a message for me whether to cite or uncite plot. If it needs citation, then I can add from the news articles like Bollywoodlife. And International broadcast and adaptation, I can't get you citations as news doesn't mention about a series dubbed in malayalam or it is rerunning in other channel. I think you have understood. Discuss with me for any other articles too.

I have been busy since yesterday so I have no time to edit Wikipedia articles these days. Pranay Star (talk) 04:33, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

The above comment was moved from User talk:Noah Kastin by Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) at Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋). This was done in an effort to keep the discussion centralized.

@Pranay Star: Thanks for the offer to get plot citations!

In answer to whether the plot section needs citations: I just did a bit of research, and discovered what seems to me to say that plot summaries do not need citations, but that citations are helpful. See MOS:PLOT and MOS:FAIR USE for more details.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 04:51, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Pranay Star and Cyphoidbomb: I've just done about as much as I can do pertaining to cleaning up sources already in the article (in the article's current state).

By the way, this source—which is only used in the article to cite the fact that Naagin airs on SCTV, dubbed into Indonesian—might also be useful for citing various parts of the plot summary (if this Google Translate window is anything to go by).

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 05:43, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Thank you for your efforts. My preference is to only act here in a gnome/admin capacity. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:37, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Noted. I will try to respect your preferences. Thanks for stopping by! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 07:39, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Cleanup tag still relevant?: 7/9/17 UTC

Hi, Adotchar! Thanks for all of your great work on Wikipedia!

I noticed that you added a cleanup-reorganize banner to this article in November 2016. Do you think that the article still needs cleaning up, such that the tag should still be there, or should the tag be removed?

Thanks again for your great work!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 08:29, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Adotchar: I have now removed the banner, as I do not think that the article still needs cleaning up to comply with Wikipedia's layout guidelines (which was what the banner said needed to be done). If you think that the article still suffers from the problems that the banner suggests, I will re-add the banner. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 10:26, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Class assessment: 7/11/17 UTC

Hi, IJBall! Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia!

I am somewhat perplexed by your recent class assessment of this article, where you demoted it from B and C classes to Start and Start classes (in this edit). What confuses me is that the only explanation given (in the edit summary) was that the article has "numerous issues" and is "under no circumstances B-class". However, I'm not sure what issues you're talking about. If you could let me know, I would greatly appreciate that!

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 22:08, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: B-class is one of the highest assessment levels we have on Wikipedia – it is just short of Good article-class, and a significant subset of B-class articles would likely be approved for Good article-status. This article comes nowhere near qualifying for B-class – the overall article has a {{Refimprove}} tag, and in addition nearly every section of the article has separate 'cleanup' tags as well, and there are numerous {{citation needed}} tags. In short, this is an article with a lot of problems, and would fail to pass all 6 levels of B-class assessment (right now, I'm not sure it would pass any of those 6 assessments). It is nowhere near 'B-class', and with its many issues I think even giving this article even a 'C-class' assessment status is a stretch... 'Start-class' sounds right for a semi-longish article that is insufficiently sourced (but not completely lacking in sourcing). Pinging Cyphoidbomb who has already put a lot of time into this article... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:20, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

@IJBall: After reading Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Assessment and Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Assessment more closely, several times, and after checking over the article again, my point of view is much closer to yours. I agree that it should not be rated B-class on the WikiProject India scale and definitely not on the WikiProject Televison scale. I also agree that Start-class probably fits for its WikiProject Television rating, though I think the article might almost be at the point where it could get a C rating for WikiProject Televison. However, for WikiProject India, where the requirements seem to be significantly less strict than for WikiProject Television, I think that the article is much closer to getting a C rating, and might actually be at the point where it should have one. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 00:47, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

In general, different WP's shouldn't rate the same article with different assessment classes. I'd like to hear from Cyphoidbomb on his thoughts on 'Start-class' vs. 'C-class' before proceeding. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:58, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

@IJBall: Thanks for letting me know about the rule with the same article having multiple classes not being allowed. That clears up a lot of issues.

I'd also like to hear from Cyphoidbomb, and will definitely wait for him before proceeding as well.

Right now, I'm trying to improve the article's quality by finding good, reliable sources that the article doesn't already contain. Please let me know if this causes any problems for the article's quality assessment.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 01:03, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

My personal view is that if can eliminate most to all of the {{citation needed}} tags and replace them with appropriate sourcing, the article would likely graduate to 'C-class' at that point. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:01, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

New sources found: 7/12/17 UTC

Hi! I just found several sources which may or may not be useful for the article. Here they are, with brief notes describing basically what they include:

• [1]: Reception and S1 end month.
• [2]: Criticism.
• [3]: Speculation on reception. Note that this source is already used in the article.
• [4]: Actress’s feelings on the show. Note that the following citation has the same content, only (in my opinion) not written as well: [5]
• [6]: Reception and popularity.
• [7]: Reception and popularity.
• [8]: Popularity, S1 end month, part of S2 lead cast, and replacement by Kavach...Kaali Shaktiyon Se. Note that this source might also be useful in the Kavach article.
• [9]: Production and part of S2 lead cast.
• [10]: Production and reception.
• [11]: Production and speculation on S3 cast.
• [12]: Production and reception.
• [13]: Popularity, start date, and directing-related.
• [14]: So long that I can’t briefly describe it.
• [15]: Reception, part of each S1 and S2 lead cast, S1 end date.
• [16]: Popularity, S1 and S2 lead cast, Pakistan ban details.
• [17]: Pakistan ban details.
• [18]: Possibly useful, but I can’t figure out for what.
• [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24] and [25]: Popularity.

If anyone has any opinions on how useful these sources are or what they could potentially be used for, please let me know (possibly underneath the individual citations for comments on individual sources, or as a general comment down here for comments concerning several sources). I may add more about the individual sources and/or add them to the article as I discern their usefulness or lack thereof.

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 04:57, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Complex edit: 7/15/17 UTC

Hi, Pranay Star! Thank you for adding a useful citation to this article. Also, thank you for removing two sentences, each of which shouldn't be in the article until they can be cited; one due to WP:CRYSTAL (the one concerning season 3), and one due to WP:PEA (the one concerning awards).

I just reverted your edits to the second paragraph of the lede of this article. The changes that I made—along with reasoning for them—are listed below:

1. I put back the uncited start and end dates for season 1, for two reasons: 1) I think that the start and end dates for the season are fairly important; and 2) available sources probably exist, stating what the start and end dates were.
2. I removed the reference citing Sudha Chandran being one of the main characters in season 1 and returned the "citation needed" tag. This was done because the reference did not state that Chandran was a main cast member for season 1, only that she was in season 1.
3. I re-added the uncited sentence about Kavach replacing the first season of Naagin. This was done because I am fairly sure that sources exist supporting this fact.
4. I fixed up minor grammatical, punctuation, and capitalization errors.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you again for your useful contributions earlier today!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 16:04, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Xà Nữ Báo Thù: Vietnamese speakers requested

Hi! Currently, there is a sentence in this article concerning a dub of this article's subject into Vietnamese, entitled Xà Nữ Báo Thù. This sentence, unfortunately, is completely uncited. However, I cannot read Vietnamese, and Google Translate produces nonsensical results (e.g. "Bite still how to bear suffering"). If anyone can read Vietnamese and can help me find sources for Xà Nữ Báo Thù (or conclusively find a lack thereof), I would greatly appreciate that! Thanks! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 19:51, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Noah, the Reference desk (or more specifically Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language) might be a good place to start if you're trying to get direct assistance. Or perhaps WikiProject Vietnam? Regards and thanks for your efforts, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:26, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Thanks for the advice! I will look into those options. Thanks again! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 00:53, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I have now put in a help request at WT:VIETNAM. The help request is located at WT:VIETNAM#Vietnamese citation translation requested. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 01:06, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

CN spans

Hi all (and perhaps Noah, specifically), do we really need the citation requests for the cast/roles that have already aired? Typically we use the primary source (the TV show itself) for uncontroversial content like cast, or plot. I'm not sure the flagging is necessary. I'll take on faith that Kinshuk Mahajan plays a male serpent, for instance. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:21, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Good point; I will remove the majority of the citation requests. However, I would like to see some form of citation for who is a "main character", as this is the source of some debate (i.e. editors moving characters into and out of the main characters section). Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 00:45, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: This is going to be tricky for non-Hindi speakers to verify, especially because I think Indian TV and films may not do credits the way the Western world does credits. The things I'd be most wary of is the random moving of cast up or down, (which you seem to be attuned to) since that tends to look like we're adhering to someone's personal interpretation of who is important and who is not. Although, I think that sometimes ignorant editors will move people from main cast to other sections depending on whether or not that actor/character has been downgraded. This is problematic, because as I'm sure you can understand, if someone is a main cast member, but later takes a back seat in the series, they shouldn't be swept under the rug. Anyhow, a much bigger problem across Indian TV articles. TL;DR: I don't oppose your requests for clarification on main characters. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:07, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: For recurring characters, would TV Guide be useful just to prove that they exist (and sometimes their names)? Here's a sample TV Guide entry on Naagin characters (note that this may only cover one season, unclear which): [26] Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 14:54, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I have also discovered some citations (currently used in the article) which state that various characters are main characters. Having found no other reliable sources that state that characters are main characters, I am inclined to believe that the only characters who are main characters are the ones that the sources that I found specify. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 17:45, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Character roles: 7/16/17 UTC

Hi! I'm not quite sure what notation should be used for characters who are sometimes main characters (and so appear in the main characters section), but are sometimes recurring characters. This seems to be the case with Aashka Goradia (recurring in season 1, main in season 2) and Arjun Bijlani (main in season 1, (possibly) recurring in season 2).

I have tried to find an appropriate guideline, but have failed to do so. I have also failed to find a comparable article with a characters section to base this one on. If someone can let me know what notation to use, I would greatly appreciate that!

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 17:37, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Can you help me figure out what to do about this? Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 00:40, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Prose is my usual go-to. Depending on how much information we have, something like "Goradia was a recurring character until season 2 when she took over the lead after __'s departure" or whatever the case may be. Obviously we calibrate depending on what sort of content exists. And yeah, I'd probably move her to Main if she's Main, but not move her back if her character takes a lesser role in the future, since it's important for us to know that she was part of the main cast at some point. The Indian marketing sockpuppets seem to hate prose, preferring instead to use Wikipedia to detail whomever is fresh on the screen at this moment, but that's not how we operate. We should absolutely have real-world information in our cast section, per WP:TVCAST. Hope that helps. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:18, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I just made an edit in an attempt to solve this problem. Please let me know if this achieved the desired goal. Thanks! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 18:49, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Good work, my only note is that "relegated" makes it sound like a demotion, as opposed to just how the storyline evolved. In the interest of neutrality, maybe something along the lines of "Bijlani's role was reduced to a recurring role" or something. I can't think of the best phrasing at present. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 02:29, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Thanks for pointing out the problem with the word "relegated". I can't think of a better word at the moment either, so I've tagged the sentence with Template:POV statement until I can think of a better word. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 02:43, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 7/20/17 UTC

Hi, Pranay Star! Thank you for all of your great work on Wikipedia!

I have reverted two of your edits to this page (this one and this one), for the following reasons:

• They removed material which probably could be cited, but which I have not found citations for yet.
• They removed helpful explanatory comments.
• They removed existing useful citations.
• They added citations which do not adequately cite the facts that they seem to be citing.

Your edit did also add some useful citations, so I have re-added those in this edit.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 20:49, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 7/21/17 UTC

Hi, Elexbrand! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I have reverted five of your edits to this page (in this edit), for the following reasons:

1. They added content concerning a future release with no sources supporting the content that you added. This is explicitly prohibited by WP:CRYSTAL.
2. They disrupted the general shape of the cast list. In this article, the general cast list format has been: one actor, one entry. If it is announced that the actor will appear in the next season, the parenthetical statement next to their name (such as "(Seasons X—Y)") can have that "Y" number incremented by one to show that the actor will appear in the next season. For example, "Arjun Bijlani (Seasons 1—2)" can be changed to "Arjun Bijlani (Seasons 1—3)", if it has been announced that he will appear in season 3. (Note, however, that this must be cited; see point 1.) However, it should not be written as:

• Arjun Bijlani (Seasons 1—2)
• Arjun Bijlani (Season 3)

If you can find reliable sources showing that Arjun Bijlani and/or Adaa Khan is going to have a main role in season 3 (Mouni Roy's appearance in season 3 is already sourced, so no additional citations are needed to cite that fact), feel free to change "(Seasons 1—2)" next to the actor's name to "(Seasons 1—3)" and add a citation next to the parenthetical statement. Alternatively, you can drop links to reliable sources on the talk page here, and I will add them to the article for you.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 21:25, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Naagin (Colors)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

As with the majority of television articles, only when there is sufficient content to warrant the creation of a standalone article for an individual season, should we create such an article. None of the Naagin articles have ever contained episode lists, ratings data, critical response, casting info, production details, etc. A subject is not notable simply because it exists, and the creation of these anemic season articles (like Naagin (Colors)) just looks like we're trying to artificially inflate the importance of each season. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:22, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

• Support merge – currently, there's not enough at Naagin (Colors) to justify a separate article. However, if it ever gets to that point, I'd strongly urge that it be titled at Naagin (season 3) (or Naagin (series 3) if we use UK-English)) as per WP:NCTV. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:57, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
• Support merge — About half of the content at Naagin (Colors) seems to be redundant with this article, and the other half is small enough that I think that it could be safely merged into this article. I fully support merging these two articles. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 23:38, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

In late 2016 in the discussion above Talk:Naagin (TV series)#Proposed merge with Naagin (season 2), I detailed the usual path that TV articles take, from creation of the main article to daughter articles like episode lists and individual season articles. Over the last year or so there's been a push to expand the tentacles of various Indian TV articles. This is one of them. I don't really get why it's happening, but I sort of feel that people think that having multiple articles about the same subject somehow makes it more legitimate or weighty. Or perhaps less likely to be deleted? I don't know, but this main article doesn't yet warrant daughter articles in my experienced opinion. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 02:01, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

• Support merge – I accept the merge of the two articles. I understood the reasons for separating the season articles. So, now you can merge the articles with no objection by my side. Pranay Star (talk) 07:51, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
• Support merge M. Billoo 17:28, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Arjun Bijlani

@Kamiya Khurana: re: this and this, can you please explain why you're removing Bijlani's appearances in S2? According to the prose in the cast list, he was at least in the first episode. Is that not accurate? Thank you, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:20, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 9/7/17 UTC

Hi, M.Billoo2000! Thank you for your edits to this page!

I have reverted the prose style changes from your previous edit, as there did not seem to be any problem with doing so and I preferred the previous prose layout. I have not reverted the rest of the changes, instead altering the concerned bits of the article to avoid the problems that you mentioned in the edit summary of this edit. The concerns that it seems that you brought up in the edit summary in question are as follows:

1. The prose linked to a page that will likely be merged into this page, rendering the link useless if and when the merge occurs.
2. In a single sentence, one reference was repeated twice.

I have tried to fix the problems stated above by doing the following:

1. I removed the link to the page that will likely be merged in here, since (as you pointed out) the link may become useless.
2. To avoid having an unnecessarily large number of references while maintaining the level of clarity that I wished to attain by using three references in one sentence (two of which were the same reference), I have instead created a citation bundle, which should retain the clarity that I wanted while reducing the number of references in the sentence from three to one.

I hope that this will fix both your problems and mine. If any problems remain, please let me know, and I will see what I can do to fix them.

Thanks again for your edits to this page!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 02:17, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Hi! You're welcome, and thank you for your contributions too! One of the main problems in the page is the date format. The page has been tagged with Template:Use dmy dates, but it doesn't fulfill it completely. Also, the |language= parameter in Template:Cite web is invisible in view if coded to en or en-US. Can you please check up this too? And, can you fix this symbol too, "It’s" --> "It's"? Thanks! M. Billoo 03:10, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

@M.Billoo2000: Thanks for letting me know!

To respond to the problems that you brought up:

• I only saw one occurrence of a non-DMY date in the article, which I changed to be a DMY date. That should probably fix your problem with the non-DMY dates (unless I missed a non-DMY date or misunderstood your question).
• Template:Cite web mentions that the language parameter is invisible if set to "English" or "en". I'm not sure if this answers your question about "en" and "en-US" making the language parameter invisible, but this is all of the information that I could find relating to this.
• I couldn't find any occurrences of the "’" symbol, so if what you were asking was for me to change curly quotes (’) to straight quotes ('), I don't think that there's anything that needs to be done in that regard. If what you were asking me to do was to add Template:' where necessary, I don't see anywhere where that needs to be done, either.

If I've misinterpreted your questions, please let me know, and I will see what I can do to fix your actual questions. Also, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Thanks again for the information!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 09:21, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Hi! Thanks for your work!

• You said, "Template:Cite web mentions that the language parameter is invisible if set to "English" or "en"… "en" and "en-US" making the language parameter invisible…"
  • I know that, and that's why I said that adding invisible thing is (as I think) unnecessary so better to remove.
• You said, "change curly quotes (’) to straight quotes (')…"
  • That is what I said too. But Template:' is used where already more than one apostrophe have been used, i.e. to '''bold''' or to ''italic'' (like you have seen above too). The reason is only that the curly one uses 2-3 bytes on inserting while straight one uses 1 byte as normal.

For Template:Use dmy dates, it means to use every date in the page in that (dmy) format. Thanks again! M. Billoo 10:19, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@M.Billoo2000: Thanks for the information!

I completely agree with you here on all points. (I should mention that I add references through the Cite button at the top of the page, which probably automatically adds the "language" parameter, but I don't mind if you remove the "language" parameters.)

Thanks again for the information!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 01:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Citation-related questions: 9/24/17 UTC

Hi, Cyphoidbomb! Thanks for merging Naagin (Colors) into this page!

I noticed a couple of problems with citations after the merge and wasn't sure how to resolve them. Here is the sentence with the potential problems in it:

Naagin will return for a third season in November 2017,^{[citation needed]} with Mouni Roy once again in the lead^{[citation needed]} with Mouni Roy once again in the lead along with Karanvir Bohra, Adaa Khan, Arjun Bijlani and Poonam Narula Goel.

Here are the possible problems that I noticed:

1. I had thought that the citation after "with Mouni Roy once again in the lead" would provide enough information for the entire part of the sentence before it. I'm not sure if the reason behind the "citation needed" tag's existence is that the reference is in the wrong place, that it doesn't give enough information, or some other reason. If you can help me figure out what's going wrong so that we can fix it, that would be greatly appreciated!
2. The reference after "along with Karanvir Bohra, Adaa Khan, Arjun Bijlani" appears to just be speculation as to whether Arjun Bijlani will appear in Season 3 or not. It does not seem to include any confirmation as to whether he will appear in season 3, or whether Karanvir Bohra and/or Adaa Khan will appear in Season 3 (which the citation seems to also cover). May I delete the citation?

If you have any answers to my questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 05:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: I put the CN request after the November 2017 claim, because it wasn't clear to me whether or not that detail was sourced. I didn't check the references, though. If it's sourced in the reference block appearing after "with Mouni Roy once again in the lead", feel free to cut it. It was a long sentence with a lot of claims being made, so sometimes I prefer to source individual claims. I don't particularly care in this instance. The Arjun Bijlani reference doesn't say that he's going to be in S3, only that he's thinking about it. Pointless. I'd cut the claim and the reference. Thanks and regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:49, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb:  Done in these edits. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 01:09, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 10/2/17 UTC

Hi, Kamiya Khurana! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I just reverted one of your edits. This was done because the cast list is already in the Cast section, so also having it in the infobox could potentially cause the infobox and the Cast section might become out of sync. This would cause different information to appear in the infobox and the Cast section, confusing any readers of the article until the discrepancies were fixed. Simply having a link to the Cast section in the infobox solves this problem, as it guarantees that the cast list shown the infobox is the same as the cast list in the Cast section.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks again for editing Wikipedia!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 23:07, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Pointless links to non-existent season articles

@Noormohammed satya: I have reverted the bulk of your recent changes. There was no reason for you to generate links in the article to non-existent season articles, as these links are circular and point back to this main article. The standalone season articles are not likely to be created, and if they are, they are almost certain to be merged back into this article, per previous discussions on the matter, because there has historically been insufficient content to warrant the existence of standalone articles for this series. In June 2017 I explained very clearly on your talk page what the normal process was for creating individual season articles, which you never responded to. If you are planning to circumvent established community preference to create flimsy season articles, be prepared to receive significant pushback on that. There were other issues as well: Please don't use ampersands (&) in prose. We use "and", not shortcuts. You also misused italics both in the formatting of your links, as well as in the section headings. We use italics for titles of major works like an album, a book, a film, a television show (Naagin season one not Naagin season one). Please familiarise yourself with MOS:ITALICS. Thank you. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:42, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2017

113.210.235.93 (talk) 09:04, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 09:08, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Season overviews or episode list?

Hi! This edit—which I reverted as part of this edit, for reasons stated in the latter edit's edit summary—reminded me of a question that I think has come up in the past, namely: Should the plot be written as a series of short overviews, one per season, or as an episode list showing a short summary for each episode?

If anyone has any opinions on this, please let me know!

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 08:00, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 12/13/17 UTC

Hi, 109.152.178.121! Thank you for adding this useful source to the article!

I just reverted two of your edits (in this edit). This was done for the following reasons:

• This edit (Edit 1) reverted some of my changes, where I removed apparently outdated information and replaced it with more up-to-date information. However, Edit 1 did not explain why the reversion was done, so I reverted that edit.
• This edit (Edit 2) reverted a large number of changes—a list of which can be seen in this edit's edit summary—with the explanation "Arjun is not in the show anymore". I reverted that edit for two reasons:

1. Although Edit 2's explanation was supported by the text that you re-added to the article in Edit 2, that text was not supported by a reliable source. Thus, the statement that Arjun is not in the show anymore will count as original research until and unless you add a reliable source supporting that statement.
2. The edit reverted a large number of other changes, though, as before, it did not explain why those reversions were done.

I hope that this will help clarify why I reverted your edit.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks again for the addition of that useful source!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 10:51, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 12/18/17 UTC

Hi, 47.29.65.76 and Lorati! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I just reverted 4 edits, 2 by each of you, in this edit. These edits were reverted by the following reasons:

• 47.29.65.76's edits (this and this) were reverted for two reasons:
  • This edit changed cited information to uncited information.
  • This edit modified the wiki-markup of a citation to appear to agree with the changes made in this edit without actually changing the citation to a reliable one that agreed with it.
• Lorati's edits (this and this) were reverted for the following reason: The edits were in between 47.29.65.76's edits and the current revision. While I would have manually reverted 47.29.65.76's edits instead of reverting them and Lorati's edits, 47.29.65.76's edits were of a nature where attempting to manually revert them would have run a high risk of further disrupting the source code of the citation changed by 47.29.65.76's edits. Lorati's edits were fairly useful, though, so I will re-instate them (albeit with a few small changes, since some sources that I just found indicate that I should change some of the information in Lorati's edits).

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you again for editing Wikipedia!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 08:03, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

@Lorati: I re-instated some of the information from your edits (in this edit). However, as I mentioned before, I had to make some changes due to information from sources that I found. This included having to remove Jyoti's characters name and Naagin affiliation. Regardless, the part of the information that you added that I was able to use was very helpful (both by itself and in that it got me to find another source for the article), so thank you for your edits! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 08:47, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Neeya

Hi, Thilakshan! Thank you for editing this page!

I noticed that, in your edit to this page, you added something saying that the Naagin TV series is dubbed into Tamil as Neeya. Since you didn't provide any sources, I tried searching Google for sources. I couldn't find any, but I did find that there is a Wikipedia article on a Tamil soap opera called Neeya: the article Neeya (TV series). Was this Neeya TV show what you were referring to? (Depending on whether or not these TV shows are the same show or two different shows, I will discuss what to do next accordingly.)

Thank you again for your edit!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 05:16, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi :)

This is 2 different show, Neeya (TV series) is a Singapore Tamil Soap opera, Neeya https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZwYRCDHc4A is Dubbed version of Nagini.--Thilakshan (talk) 09:08, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

@Thilakshan: Thanks for the response!

Now all we need to do is find some sources to support the inclusion of the Tamil dub as Neeya. I found two, but they're somewhat iffy; this one because it's a Facebook post, and this one because it could also be talking about the Tamil dub that airs on Gemini TV. Cyphoidbomb, what do you think of these sources? (I'm still having a hard time figuring out what sources are reliable.)

Thanks again for the response, Thilakshan!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 10:56, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi Noah, this is one of those things where I might just take someone's word that the dub exists under this name and move on with my life. It's a fairly uncontroversial piece of information that it seems unlikely to be falsified or disputed. If I couldn't quickly find a reference, I'd probably just move on. Or in some cases I might just cut it. I mean, do we list all of the different titles SpongeBob was released in across the globe? Nope. Kinda depends on if the article's been heavily vandalized in the recent past or not. If not, then I might let it survive uncontested. If so, then I'd cut it. So I say, take your pick! Happy New Year, and thanks for all your hard work and strong communication. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:59, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi again Noah, I found this site, which appears to be the Shakthi TV website. If you look on Saturday and Sunday's listings, you'll find Neeya. I also found this video from a presumed Shakthi TV outlet, which shows the intro of Neeya. Pretty sure Mouni Roy and Arjun Bijlani are featured throughout. The video ends with Tamil script, and while I don't speak or read Tamil, it looks to me like a stylised version of the Tamil script நீயா, just sort of smashed together a bit. There's also a Neeya title card at [27] in the large slideshow top of screen. So in terms of whether or not it passes the stink test, I think we're in the clear. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Thanks for the sources, and for the corresponding information! I'll add some form of citation—using one or more of your sources—to the entry on Neeya. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 09:55, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

 Done in this edit. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 10:21, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Noah, as a general note, typically we shouldn't use videos from unverified YouTube accounts as references, as we could be pointing to a potential copyright violation. When doing our due diligence to determine whether a piece of information is feasible or not, sometimes we have to look at a myriad of sources, good and bad. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:53, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Good point. Should I use a simple note pointing to this discussion, instead of actually using the sources in the article? Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 09:43, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Noah I don't have a good answer for this. We don't typically link to talk page discussions as references. This might be one of those situations where something is verifiable, but not easily referenced. There might be a page at the Shakthi website where they link to the YouTube video. You might consider poking around there. If they point to the YouTube video, then I'd be less inclined to worry about copyvios. Alternatively, we could just ignore referencing for the time being. It's a fairly innocuous piece of information and I think we've spent a significant amount of time verifying it. Regards and Happy New Year, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:47, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Thanks for the New Year's wishes!

I poked around on the Shakthi TV website (as best I could, having absolutely no comprehension of how to read Tamil script) and couldn't find anything linking to the YouTube video. Would just using the other two sources—removing the discussion link and YouTube video—be adequate sourcing for the Neeya entry?

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 16:06, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

I would encourage you to use your best judgment. Also, this is maybe a more intuitive program listing for Shakthi TV, as it lists Neeya in an easier-to-find format than the previous link I submitted. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:29, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, and for the reference!

I think I'll use the two non-video references plus your reference, combined into a Refn tag with appropriate text added. I'll add a diff once I've done that.

Thanks again for the help!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 20:25, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I actually wound up replacing all of the citations for Neeya with the Shakthi TV site reference, as I realized that that contained everything that all of the sources had: a name, a language, an air time, and proof that two seasons exist. You can see my diff here. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 20:33, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 12/30/17 UTC

Hi, 2405:204:e50e:3ae0:7617:b354:ca76:df79! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I just reverted two of your edits to this page. This was done for the following reasons:

• This edit added a month to the date that Season 3 of Naagin will start airing. However, the source stating that there will be a Season 3 does not state a month, so stating that Season 3 will start airing in a certain month adds uncited information to the article.
• This edit added a name for Surbhi Jyoti's character in Season 3 of Naagin. The name can be inferred by combining facts from multiple sources that I have found; however, combining facts in multiple sources to reach a conclusion not stated by any one of them would be a violation of WP:SYNTH. This is why, as stated in the article, her character's name is not stated in any individual reliable sources that I can find. This means that, unless you can 1) find a reliable source that, by itself, supports the addition of the character's name and can 2) add that source to the article, stating the character's name in the article, again, adds uncited information to the article.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you again for editing Wikipedia!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 10:04, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 1/1/18 UTC

Hi, Kasamma! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I just reverted two of your edits to this page. The circumstances of the reversion are somewhat complex, due to what you did: mainly, that you changed cited information to formerly uncited information, then changed the relevant citation to cite the relevant information that you changed. This would be perfectly acceptable, and even welcomed, except—this is the complex bit—the source that you cited displays a blank page upon being clicked, which does not and cannot cite the information on the page; this means that the information was still uncited after you made your edits, which is not acceptable. For this reason, I have reverted your edits.

If you're having trouble figuring out how to cite sources correctly, I can try to explain how to do it correctly. Alternatively, if you give me the URL to the source that you want to cite, I can create the citation for you.

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Thank you again for editing Wikipedia!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 05:02, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

The edits were made by socks getting around their blocks and global locks. -★- PlyrStar93. _{→Message me. ←} 18:50, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

@PlyrStar93: Thanks for letting me know! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 16:03, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 1/12/17 UTC

Hi, Emotional Wiki! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I just reverted your creation of a full article from a redirect at Naagin 3 (in this edit). This was done for the following reason: About four months ago, an article about the third season of Naagin was created. Cyphoidbomb started a discussion proposing that the third season article be merged into this article, a proposition that ultimately went through with full support from all involved. (The full discussion can be seen here.) For this reason, I think that, if you want to split out Naagin's third season into its own article, you should first start a discussion suggesting that this be done, including good reasons why it would be a good idea to do this now even though it was not a good idea four months ago. (If you really do want to post a discussion suggesting an article split, I can help you figure out how to put it up, if you need any help doing it.)

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you again for editing Wikipedia!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 09:59, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Noah Emotional Wiki was indeffed by RickinBaltimore as a result of block evasion. That account (as well as the Kasamma account you mentioned in the section just above this one) were deemed to be the same person evading a previous block. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Shiwam Kumar Sriwastaw if you're interested. If any more accounts restore that article in the next few weeks, feel free to revert without repercussion or without feeling compelled to open a discussion. The user is "de facto banned" per WP:REVERTBAN, which means you may revert without fear of edit-warring. Take care, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:44, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Thanks for the information, and for the advice! I will try to remember to follow your advice if a user restores the Naagin 3 article within the next few weeks. Thanks again! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 16:55, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Naagin 3

Naagin Season 3 will return on 10 February 2018 wait now — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.111.129.34 (talk) 13:13, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Content Reversion: 1/16/17 UTC

Hi, BengalTigers! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I just reverted one of your edits to this page. This was done because the edit in question incremented the number of seasons in the infobox from 2 to 3. However, Template:Infobox television (the infobox type used in this article) says that the season number should not be incremented until either a new season has started or a reliable source confirms that it has started production, neither of which seem to be the case for Season 3 of Naagin. Therefore, I have reverted the edit in question.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you again for editing Wikipedia!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 14:57, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Protection request: 2/4/17 UTC

Hi, Cyphoidbomb! I wanted to ask if you or some other admin could semi-protect this article until March 3.

The reason why I'd like for the article to be protected is that, since the two-week-long semi-protection of this article went down about a week ago, the article has suffered from seven waves of disruptive editing (on average, one wave per day), and no other useful edits (not counting disruptive editing reversion) have occurred.

The reason why I would like for the article to only be protected until March 3 is that the third season of this show will start on March 3, making IP and unconfirmed editing of this article less problematic (since speculation about Season 3 is one of the most common reasons for disruptive editing) and more useful (since it will be important to keep the article up-to-date with the TV show, so allowing IP and unconfirmed editors to edit this page at that point will likely be helpful).

Please let me know what you think of this idea.

Thank you!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 16:55, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin:  Done Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Thanks! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 17:16, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Naagin (TV series). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160113162833/http://www.barcindia.co.in/ to http://www.barcindia.co.in/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

? A help request is open: The new version of the link dates from after the change that broke the link occurred, rendering the new version of the link just as useless as the old one. If someone can find a version of the linked page from before the change occurred, whenever that was, that would fix the problem. Replace the reason with "helped" to mark as answered.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:29, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I have just reviewed the change and placed the above help request, as I am unable to solve the problem myself. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 20:56, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Karanvir Bohra in Season 3?

Hi, 113.169.184.91! Thank you for editing Wikipedia!

I noticed that you removed information on Karanvir Bohra being in Season 3 of Naagin, with the explanation that Bohra had commented on an Instagram post of Ekta Kapoor's that Bohra was not going to be in Season 3. However, a quick check of sources (including Kapoor's Instagram) does not show such a post. In fact, most sources that I can find say the opposite: that Bohra really will be in Naagin Season 3. For example, this article, which was published on Jan 10, firmly states that Bohra will be in Season 3. Of course, recasts can always happen, but the fact remains that all of the recent sources that I can find say that Bohra either will probably be or will definitely be in Naagin 3. Since this is the case, and since I can't find any material to contradict that, I would appreciate if you would find the source in question and post a link to it here so that we can use it in the article. If you can't find the link, Bohra's entry in the cast list should probably having the information about him being in Naagin 3 re-added until and unless concrete sources stating that he won't be in Naagin 3 can be obtained.

Thank you again for editing Wikipedia!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 08:10, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Naagin 3 release date

Hey I saw a certain insta post where some fan had actually had a conversation with Rohit Chaudhary and he said that the show will start from June after the IPL. Moreover of it had to release in March the promotion with date would have been released. Anisha 0987 (talk) 12:22, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

@Anisha 0987: Thanks for mentioning this, and for the information!

If you can find the Instagram post in question, you can add it to the article as a reference by clicking where you want the reference to be, clicking the Cite button, pasting the link into the URL box, and clicking Publish. (Alternatively, you can post the link to it here, and I can turn it into a reference and add it to the article.) Once the Instagram post is in the article as a reference, the Naagin 3 release date can be changed to to June 2018, since there will be a clear reference stating that that is, as of the moment, the most accurate release date available.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks again for the information, and for trying to communicate with other users about this!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 12:34, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Merge with Naagin (Season 3)?

Hi everyone! I just noticed that, about four days ago, a Naagin (Season 3) article was created. Given the results the last time that someone made a Naagin 3 article, I would figure that Naagin (Season 3) should be merged into this article. However, since I tend to go by WP:GNG when assessing whether an article should be kept or deleted, and Naagin's third season technically passes WP:GNG (since, on the Naagin article alone, there are at least eight reliable sources that talk about Naagin's third season), I am unsure of whether the two should be merged or not. Any thoughts? Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 14:30, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes. It is just an article created for misinterpretation. Even my article was once merged as I supposed it. If Naagin Season 3 article is created, then Naagin Season 2 article should be created. According to Wikipedia guidelines, I support your statement of merging it with this. I have seen the page and it's misleading. How can the date 19 June 2018 be written without any citations? It is only for the choice of the user who made the article. How can the title card be added without any telecast? That's also a fault. So merging would be good. Pranay Star (talk) 15:00, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Merge - For TV season articles, the quantity of content should determine whether or not the season article exists. Consider the content at 24 (season 2). There's a series summary, cast list with episode count, full episode list tracking titles, directors, writers, air dates, production codes, content on production and reception and awards. If the entirety of Naagin S3's content is a cast list, that's just not sufficient. The way we usually create TV fork articles is detailed above in Talk:Naagin (TV series)#Proposed merge with Naagin (season 2). Naagin will never have a detailed episode list tracking all the information found in the 24 article. Nobody will ever track ratings for S2, critical response, etc. There will never be proper Season 1 or Season 2 articles created, so it's bizarre to have a standalone S3 article. It's just a poorly-thought-out content fork that does little, but create content spread for no good reason. Further, the article was created by a brand new user who presumably has zero familiarity with WikiProject Television preferences. The user's first edit was to remove a PROD from a flimsy article, and his second edit welcomed a user with four edits. My feeling is that this article was created to promote the series and that we're going to see some coordinated editing. @AussieLegend: Do you have any thoughts on the merge proposal? Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:23, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I have lots of thoughts, many of which you've already stated. --AussieLegend (✉) 16:45, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Merge - Cyphoidbomb has convinced me that this is a good idea. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 15:39, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Merge - The article needs to be moved anyway (it should be at Naagin (season 3) if it is to exist) and it's using the wrong infobox. The lead needs to be fixed to reflect that it's a season, not a series, invalid references need to be removed and other errors need to be fixed. I agree with pretty much everything Cyphoidbomb has said so I think a merge is preferable. --AussieLegend (✉) 16:45, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I've now fixed the numerous errors in the article and I'm more convinced a merge is necessary. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:25, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

As everyone should have noticed by now, the article in question has been deleted so there is nothing to merge. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:26, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: Thanks for letting us know! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 21:28, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Should we create episode tables here?

In light of what Cyphoidbomb said in the above discussion, I have been reminded that having an episode table for this article would probably be a good idea. Nobody's ever had a serious discussion on adding episode tables before (to my knowledge), but now that it's come up, this is probably a good time to discuss this. So, Cyphoidbomb, Pranay Star, any opinions on the addition of an episode table for this article? (This especially goes for you, Pranay Star, since you'd probably be adding most of the content to said table.) Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 15:40, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for assigning me the duty of adding content to the episodic table. Would you (Noah Kastin) create it so that I would be able to write the episodic details. Pranay Star (talk) 16:02, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: Sure thing! I'd like to get Cyphoidbomb's opinion on this before I begin, though, because he's the one who suggested the whole episode-list idea in the first place, so he probably knows more about when it should be used and how to use it than I do. If he gives it the go-ahead, though, I will definitely try to implement that episode table when I get a chance to do so. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 20:19, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: My preference is to remain as neutral as possible on content issues. If you both want to put together an episode list, then godspeed. @AussieLegend: I've been a little bit out of the loop on TV-related stuff for a while, and I know some stuff has changed. Any chance I could impose upon you to point these guys to some sample articles or suitable templates to get started with? Obviously it depends on how much information can be found for the 130+ episodes the article is behind on. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:22, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

We have several templates to make the creation of episode lists easier. For the episode tables themselves, {{Episode table}} provides the headers while {{Episode list}} is used for the tables themselves. When a series has more than one season we use {{Series overview}} to create a series overview table. MOS:TV provides guidance on how to actually create the episode lists and provides links to examples as well. I would suggest creating the episode list article at Draft:List of Naagin episodes and moving it to article space once it is mature enough. --AussieLegend (✉) 03:32, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: Thanks for the information! I'll get started on the episodes list draft now. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 06:32, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: I just created a very basic draft (located right where you suggested, at Draft:List of Naagin episodes). Currently, the draft just has a lede, a series overview that doesn't have the right colors yet, and episodes tables for the two seasons that only exist as a very basic model for what the tables should eventually look like. Is this basically good so far, and is there anything that I should change drastically about it so far?

@Pranay Star: We'll need colors for each of the two seasons of Naagin, one to represent each season. Do you have any particular preferences as to what color is used for any given season? (I ask because, since you've watched the show, I thought that you might know some sort of symbolic color that would represent one or both seasons.) If you have a general color type in mind, I can pick out an exact hex color from there, but I'll need something to work with, so if you have any preferences, however general, those would be nice to know.

Thanks in advance, everyone, for any feedback!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 07:10, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Good work. I've made some minor changes to the series overview table so that it can be transcluded to the main article once it's moved to article space. I've also modified the episode tables to set column widths and enable better episode numbering. |EpisodeNumber= needs to be unique so that it can be externally linked to so when we have a series with more than one season we use |EpisodeNumber2= to keep individual season numbering correct. |LineColor= is used to provide a line between entries when |ShortSummary= is completed. I've also commented out some comments. Otherwise, the draft was fine. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:53, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: Thanks for the fixes! Now we just need for Pranay Star to add input on the colors (or, if Pranay Star won't or can't do it, for someone else to add input on the colors) so that I can fill in the episode tables with the full number of episodes per season. (I just want to know what the season colors will be before I fill in the episode tables so that I won't have to replace 62 or 75 instances of my default color with whatever other people want.) Thanks again for the fixes! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 10:08, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

The colours of the two seasons are different now so a simple find and replace can be used to easily replace them in each season. For now, they can be anything but usually we pick the dominant colour of the home media release cover. If none is available then an arbitrary colour choice is adequate. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:26, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: Unfortunately, I can't find home media covers for Naagin. I have found a fairly ubiquitous promotional picture for Naagin Season 2 (viewable here), but I can't find such a picture for Season 1, with the closest thing that I can find being this. Would these two pictures be adequate for their respective seasons?

Also, if we were using these pictures, what colors would would we use? I would figure the tan-gold color from this picture for Naagin 2 and the mint-green color from this picture for Naagin 1, but that's just my personal opinion (and, of course, this is only if we're using either of the pictures that I procured at all).

Thanks in advance for any input on the pictures and/or colors!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 13:01, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

We use the home media covers because they are normally used in the season article infoboxes. However, as we are just creating a list of episodes, that won't have any infoboxes or non-free image, it really doesn't matter what colours we use. The colours that you suggested are as good as any we could pick. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:22, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: OK, then I'll use those. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 21:38, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend and Pranay Star: All right, how do the colors at Draft:List of Naagin episodes look now?

By the way, just as an update on the plan here: Once I can get consensus on the colors, I'll implement the rest of the outline for the season tables, at which point it will your turn, Pranay Star, to implement the episode names and plots.

Anyway, right now, what's important is just to get a quick consensus on the colors, so if anyone has any opinions on the colors, please let me know!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 21:48, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I was busy since three days and from now I can work on it. I suggest you to use gold color for Naagin Season 1 and olive green for Season 2. The logos of the two seasons indicate the respective colors. I can add plot and title for episodes once it's done. Pranay Star (talk) 07:57, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: Thanks for the input! I actually like your color selection a lot better than the selection that I had picked out on my own, so thanks for suggesting it! Are the colors that I've added at Draft:List of Naagin episodes the colors that you were going for, or should I change something about them before we continue? Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 11:23, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Yes. The colors are good now and I would advise you to edit the table, filling with all episodes air dates (62,75). Pranay Star (talk) 11:42, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: On it. I'll let you know when I'm done. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 11:43, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: I've filled in all of the episode numbers and air dates for Season 1. I haven't filled in the ones for Season 2 because my hands started hurting too much to continue after I finished with Season 1, but the 62 episodes of Season 1 are all ready to be filled in, so you can work on those until I get the opportunity to fill in the Season 2 episode numbers and air dates. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 12:04, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: I've edited the air dates of Naagin Season 1 as it was 2016 instead of 2015. You have written 5 instead of 6. I would like to ask if the titles and short summaries are added by getting the info from Voot (where Naagin episodes are available officially) or added by own. If you give reply to this question then I would thank you for solving my doubt. Pranay Star (talk) 13:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: First of all, thanks for fixing my oversight on the 2016 Naagin episodes.

About the titles and short summaries: While obtaining the titles from Voot or some similar website would probably be a good idea, as such websites are probably good sources for the episode titles (just as I used YouTube to obtain the episode air dates), I would suggest writing up your own plot summaries for the episodes, as websites like Voot may potentially use copyrighted plot summaries, meaning that Voot's plot summaries may not be allowed for use on Wikipedia.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 05:40, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: Thanks for replying. I'll add own titles and summaries to the episodes. Pranay Star (talk) 08:03, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: OK, thanks! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 08:07, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

@Noah Kastin: I've added first episode title and summary of Naagin Season 1. Once go through it and correct any errors. Could you tell me the maximum words to be used in summary of a episode? Pranay Star (talk) 08:27, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Episode summaries should be 100-200 words. There is a script that you can use to check the plot lengths after you have written the summaries. --AussieLegend (✉) 08:58, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: I've mostly copyedited the episode 1 summary, but I keep getting stuck on one thing: Who is in the Raheja family that is introduced in this episode, and why is it important that they are introduced here? If you could explain that, that would be very useful, as it would help me to clear up the first sentence of the episode summary and thus finish with the copyediting of that episode summary. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 22:29, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

@Pranay Star: By the way, I have now added the episode numbers and air dates for the episodes in Naagin 2, so whenever you want to add titles and plot summaries for those episodes, they're all ready for you! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 23:13, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Sanjeeda almost certainly not in Naagin 3: here's why

Hi everyone! I just wanted to mention: If any of you are wondering if any sources support Pranay Star's removal of Sanjeeda Shiekh as an actress in Naagin 3 (diff), these two sources (1, 2)—two out of the three most recent sources that mention Shiekh—say that she will not be in Naagin 3.

Note that, if the final paragraph of this source were reliable, I'd say that Shiekh could be counted as being in Naagin 3 (as the source was published yesterday, as opposed to the two that I mentioned earlier, which were published in early January), but I'm pretty sure that the last three paragraphs of this source are unreliable, as they are identical to the lede of this revision of the Naagin (TV series) page on Wikipedia, meaning that citing this source would be basically like citing Wikipedia, which is generally unacceptable.

Anyway, I hope that this information will be helpful!

Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 06:10, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Naagin (season-3)

Please note that Naagin (season-3) was created today. I've redirected it. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:11, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

@AussieLegend: Thanks! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 09:13, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

No Indic Script

I was recently informed that Indic script shouldn't be used in infobox or lead section of India related articles as per WP:NOINDICSCRIPT. I was asking if it applies here? I thought of being bold and doing it but nah talk pages are better. TryKid (talk) 12:39, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

@TryKid: Thanks for asking! The only thing that I see that violates WP:NOINDICSCRIPT is the Hindi name for Naagin in the infobox, but if you want to remove that, I would say to go ahead and do so! Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 13:45, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

|native_name= was specifically added to {{Infobox television}} for the purpose for which it is being used in this article so I'm not sure whether WP:NOINDICSCRIPT actually applies here. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:56, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

AussieLegend, Noah Kastin; Before I do something I want everyone to be on board. So, we write native names on infoboxes if title cards use Indic script? If we do, I'll go ahead and inform Sid95Q and edit Chhoti Anandi to include it there too. So, everyone okay with that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TryKid (talk • contribs) 14:21, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

@TryKid: I could go either way on this, so whichever way everyone else decides to go on this, I'll be fine with that. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 14:23, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: and @Ravensfire: Your take on this topic??. Sid95Q (talk) 19:05, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

I saw TryKid's note on my talk page and I also got a ping here, so I'll reply here. According to WP:NOINDICSCRIPT there have been numerous discussions about the use of Indic scripts in general, and this RfC from about a year ago seemed to decide that we should exclude all Indic scripts from infoboxes. To address AussieLegend's comment about |native_name=, Template talk:Infobox television/Archive 10#Proposal: Add "native_name" parameter was the discussion, and I proposed the addition of that parameter to be consistent with what had been set up at Template:Infobox film. Geraldo Perez's support of the parameter addition was contingent on the promise that the parameter didn't step on RfCs pertinent Indian articles, so that should be considered. Personally, had I known about the Infobox Indic script RfC, I would have !voted in favor of keeping the Indic scripts, because they do provide some benefit in case we were looking for references. But, a recurring issue in things-India-related, is that some people want to use opportunities like this to wedge their own ethnic identity into articles. Example: In a film produced by the Indian Hindi film industry that is simultaneously filmed in Tamil and Telugu, do we include all three scripts? What about dubs? I guess a lot of the folks who commented at that RfC felt that this sort of thing can be crufty, so we should also take that into consideration. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:10, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb, Sid95Q So, I think that if the show was produced in one language only (not counting dubs) and the title card is in that language, we should add native language. If no one has any problems, I'll go ahead and add native names in Chhoti Anandi, 21 Sarfarosh - Saragarhi 1897 and Swami Ramdev - Ek Sangharsh.TryKid (talk) 22:19, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

@TryKid: Respectfully, I'm going to bow out of this discussion, as I could go either way on this issue. Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 23:02, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2018

2405:204:E489:2CB8:5A7:95B9:1D10:741F (talk) 11:50, 22 May 2018 (UTC) hello team, i am Rajpal and i have selected for naagin -3 and i play role of dhruv. thats why i want to add my name on this page. thanks. my contact email id is - (Redacted)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 13:58, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Ratings

Hi Noormohammed satya, re: these changes, the BARC site only tracks information for the current week, which makes it impossible to verify any changes later on. Thus, the section will always fail WP:V. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:31, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Bizarre editing that's led to recent page protection.

@FARAAZ.ALI.FAIZ: In these changes, why are you use braces {} all over the place as punctuation? That is never done in proper English sentence structure. Even if you were to more correctly use parentheses (), we can't have giant blocks of text full of parentheticals. That just so sloppy. Parentheticals are supposed to represent whispers of information directed at the reader, like "Kumar appeared in the second season of Bigg Boss (2008)." But if you're describing major characteristics about someone, you're simply not going to be whispering that. In many of the changes you made, a simple comma would have solved the problem, since you apparently didn't like the dashes. For example: Mazher Sayed (Season 1) as Suri {Shivanya's parents' murderer.} vs. Mazher Sayed (Season 1) as Suri, Shivanya's parents' murderer. The comma I added after Suri turns the statement into a properly constructed sentence.

It's also unclear to me why you're using the supremely obnoxious spelling of Ichchhadhaari vs. the less complicated Icchadhari, the latter of which seems more pronounceable by English-speaking readers. Since these are transliterations, there is some flexibility in how we present that content, but presenting it with weird consonant clusters like "chchh", which looks like it wants to be pronounced as two syllables, just creates confusion. Other bizarre changes: Why are you spelling Vikraant's name with two As? Where is that officially indicated as the preference for the character? Or for Rehaan, or for Yuvraaj or for Maahir or for Suhaani? Without references of any kind or explanations of any kind, this just seems like a personal artistic choice that you keep forcing into the article. I see numerous sources that prefer a single A spelling for Vikrant.[28][29][30][31][32][33]. Your explanations are appreciated here. Thank you, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:57, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

I have fixed the braces issue in these edits. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:17, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

If such is the case, I really appreciate your 'fuss' over the spelling of the transliteration 'Ichhadhari'. The way I spell it, is not at all 'supremely obnoxious', but directs the reader to understand how would he/ she pronounce it, had it been written in Hindi. As for the extra A's, they signify the transliteration of the Hindu names, as they are written in Hindi. Lastly, I would refrain from using '{' and '}' because addition of a comma seems to be more appropriate. FARAAZ.ALI.FAIZ (talk) 17:27, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Naagin (season-3) redirect removed

Per a user's help request, I have removed the redirect. I am not endorsing the material that the user may end up putting there, but rather giving them the opportunity to contribute to the encyclopedia. Strikerforce^Talk 15:58, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

As on this wiki, my edit was reverted I would like to apologise for not following the consenus of this talk page. I was mearly follwing the example of the Simple English wiki version from which this was translated by myself PoliceSheep99 (talk) 16:20, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Prince Narula

@FARAAZ.ALI.FAIZ: Hi there, in this edit you restored Prince Narula to the cast list. In this version of the article's lead, we say that Narula has a cameo role. Cameo roles are not particularly noteworthy, although guest star roles might be. I see that you put him in the Recurring cast section. Does his character appear somewhat regularly? Thank you, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:19, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, his character has been in the show for over four episodes. So, that's more than a cameo. FARAAZ.ALI.FAIZ (talk) 17:10, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@FARAAZ.ALI.FAIZ: Great, thank you for responding. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:30, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 26 September 2018

• Naagin (TV series) → Naagin (Indian TV series)
• Naagin (Geo Kahani) → Naagin (Pakistani TV series)

– The 2015 Indian TV series article needs to be moved for necessary disambiguation from the 2017 Pakistani TV series article – as per WP:INCDAB, Naagin (TV series) needs to be redirected to Nagin. In addition, the article for the 2017 Pakistani TV series is just incorrectly disambiguated under WP:NCTV no matter how you slice it, so it needs to be moved.  Note: The article Naaginn also exists – I'm leaving that one out of this RM proposal, as per WP:SMALLDETAILS, but that one arguably should be disambiguated as well. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:18, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

• Support - This all seems reasonable. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:24, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
• Support but to Naagin (2015 Indian TV series) and move Naaginn to Naaginn (2007 Indian TV series) as नागिन is the same title and per WP:SMALLDETAILS is not consistently or significantly distinguished in third party WP:RS. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:47, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Unnecessary "double disambiguation" – the correct proposal for that would be Naagin (2015 TV series) and Naaginn (2007 TV series), while leaving the Naagin (Pakistani TV series) as is. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:28, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
• Support Per WP:PDAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:49, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
• Support - including the Naaginn move. Double disambiguate or year, both are fine by me. --Gonnym (talk) 19:22, 26 September 2018 (UTC)