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*To the rest: Please leave any new messages on the bottom of this page. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
*To the rest: Please leave any new messages on the bottom of this page. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
*'''If you start a new section here, I will reply here.'''
*'''If you start a new section here, I will reply here.'''

==1948-villages ==
see: [[User:Huldra/Sandbox]]

Also:
*[[User:Huldra/Sources]]


*[[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine/Tasks]]
*[[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine/Tasks]]
*[[User talk:Huldra/Archive 2]]

== Unwelcome edit! ==

I have blocked the offensive IP address! <span style="text-shadow:#194D00 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em" class="texhtml">[[User:Brookie|'''<font color="#000888">Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} </font>''']] [[User talk:Brookie|<sup>(Whisper...)</sup>]]</span> 13:27, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

== Semi page protection ==

I have semi-protected your user talk page for another week to stop these mindless attacks - if you want this to be for longer - let me know! <span style="text-shadow:#194D00 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em" class="texhtml">[[User:Brookie|'''<font color="#000888">Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} </font>''']] [[User talk:Brookie|<sup>(Whisper...)</sup>]]</span> 13:36, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

== Protection ==

Have sorted it - had hit the wrong protection button - should be ok now! <span style="text-shadow:#194D00 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em" class="texhtml">[[User:Brookie|'''<font color="#000888">Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} </font>''']] [[User talk:Brookie|<sup>(Whisper...)</sup>]]</span> 13:42, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks a lot; may I ask you ( or any watching admin) to please "wash" (rev-del) my talk-page? Thanks, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 13:44, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

:::What do you mean by rev-del? Will help if I can ! <span style="text-shadow:#194D00 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em" class="texhtml">[[User:Brookie|'''<font color="#000888">Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} </font>''']] [[User talk:Brookie|<sup>(Whisper...)</sup>]]</span> 13:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
::::If I go into the history go my user-page, say [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&oldid=636603102 here] (look towards the bottom of the page), quite a lot of edits are visible which hopefully could go down a memory-hole? I´m not sure how it is done, but it has been done quite a few times before [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User+talk%3AHuldra on this user-page], (yeah; J. and I are old "friends"), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 14:02, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I have also removed the offensive edit summaries on your talk page! <span style="text-shadow:#194D00 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em" class="texhtml">[[User:Brookie|'''<font color="#000888">Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} </font>''']] [[User talk:Brookie|<sup>(Whisper...)</sup>]]</span> 14:06, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

== Archive ==

I have cleared all the above to a new archive page [[User talk:Huldra/Archive 2]] - hope this helps! <span style="text-shadow:#194D00 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em" class="texhtml">[[User:Brookie|'''<font color="#000888">Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} </font>''']] [[User talk:Brookie|<sup>(Whisper...)</sup>]]</span> 14:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
:Thanks, but is it not possible to remove [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&oldid=636603102 this] from the history? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 14:06, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
::Ah, yes, that is exactly what I mean...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 14:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)


Am not used to doing this but it seems to have worked! <span style="text-shadow:#194D00 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em" class="texhtml">[[User:Brookie|'''<font color="#000888">Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} </font>''']] [[User talk:Brookie|<sup>(Whisper...)</sup>]]</span> 14:15, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

You're at about 76 sections here right now. You might think about archiving again. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 23:08, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
::[[User:John Carter]]; nah, I´ll wait a bit longer; I try to have as few archives as possible.....look at Zero0000...he has 206 sections...... ;P [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:46, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

:Perhaps use the [[User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III|auto-archive bot]]? Code text and instructions are found on the [[User:MiszaBot/Archive_HowTo|previous archive bot's how to page]]. If you would like me to put it up for you I am happy to help, if the "how to" page seems confusing. If [[User:Huldra|you]] choose the auto-archive, you would also need to add the auto-archive index but that can be copied from almost any page that uses auto-archiving. Cheers, [[User:Drcrazy102|Drcrazy102]] ([[User talk:Drcrazy102|talk]]) 23:49, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
::[[User:Drcrazy102]] Thank you for your kind offer, but editing in the area I do, I get a lot of stuff here that I´m simply not interested in archiving.....typically edits from editors who have been blocked as socks, or topic-banned, and I´m not too quick with removing them. One prerequisite to editing in this topic-area is to be able to forget stuff, quickly! Perhaps if I was quicker removing those non-archivable edits....I´ll think about it..Thanks again, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:58, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

== Book of Leibner ==

As in [[Farradiyya]] — I think you have it but if not I can send it. Lots of stuff in there. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 05:46, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
:No, I don´t have it, but I would very much appreciate it, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:16, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

== Is this a revert? ==

Have there been any recent 1RR violations at [[1948 Palestinian exodus]]. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestinian_exodus&diff=638061800&oldid=637551163 What about this edit?] It will not count as a revert if it's adding brand new material. But it might be restoring some material that was previously removed. I have not been able to figure that out, but perhaps you can. Thanks, [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 17:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

==DYK nomination of Hadatha==
[[Image:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Hadatha]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Hadatha|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 22:35, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
*[[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]], thanks for taking care of the matter. Huldra, thank you for your many contributions to DYK and the rest of the project. Happy holidays everyone--my mother in law went home and there's a few beers left, so this turn out nicely after all. But first it's nap time! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 19:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
**Thanks a lot to both of you! I hadn´t really though of making [[Hadatha]] a DYK, I was just trying to clean up the various [[Haditha (disambiguation)]]s. As you can see on [[Talk:Hadatha]]: there have been some mix-ups. Very typical: on almost all of these places with rather similar names: there have been mix-ups. (See [[Talk:Tira, Israel]], or [[Talk:Tayibe]]). Now: back to my (short?) break; I´ll be back in a few days, hopefully. In the meantime: Enjoy your beer! And thanks for your good work! Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:23, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

== Global account ==

Hi Huldra! As a [[:m:Stewards|Steward]] I'm involved in the upcoming [[:m:Help:Unified login|unification]] of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see [[:m:Single User Login finalisation announcement]]). By looking at [[Special:CentralAuth/Huldra|your account]], I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on [[Special:MergeAccount]] and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to ping me with <nowiki>{{ping|DerHexer}}</nowiki>. Cheers, —[[User:DerHexer|DerHexer]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:DerHexer|(Talk)]]</small> 00:01, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

==DYK for Hadatha==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#3 January 2015|3 January 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Hadatha]]''''', which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that the Palestinian Arab village of '''[[Hadatha]]''', where late Roman and Byzantine ceramics were found, was depopulated during the [[1948 Palestine war]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Hadatha|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Hadatha]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Hadatha|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Hadatha]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Hadatha&datefrom=2015-01-01&dateto=2015-01-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201501/Hadatha daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom --> [[User:Harrias|<b style="color:#00cc33">Harrias</b>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Harrias|<span style="color:#009900">talk</span>]]</sup> 12:01, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

LOL, that's efficient service for you ;-)♦ [[User:Dr. Blofeld|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#aba67e">''Dr. Blofeld''</span>]] 21:54, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

== Happy New Year Huldra! ==
<div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em;{{border-radius|1em}} {{box-shadow|0.1em|0.1em|0.5em|rgba(0,0,0,0.75)}}<!--
-->" class="plainlinks">[[File:Fuochi d'artificio.gif|left|212px]][[File:Happy new year 01.svg|180px|right]]
{{Paragraph break}}
{{Center|{{resize|179%|'''''[[New Year|Happy New Year]]!'''''}}}}
'''Huldra''',<br />Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable [[New Year]], and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. [[User:Northamerica1000|NorthAmerica]]<sup>[[User_talk:Northamerica1000|1000]]</sup> 17:24, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
<br /><br />
{{Center|1=<small>Send New Year cheer by adding {{tls|Happy New Year 2015}} to user talk pages.</small>}}
</div>

== On Zochrot and the use of "depopulated" ==

I've used ethnic cleansed where it was actually ethnic cleansed (i.e: in Ramle when the Jewish fighters were instructed to kill everyone regardless of age, stormed into a mosque and massacred everyone). How is this depopulated?

Furthermore, how is Zochrot not used as a source? It is a reliable primary source. In fact, it is more reliable than most historians reporting on something they have no witnessed. Where is Zochrot opposed as a reliable source? I've seen other pro-Zionist and clearly biased sources being used, yet Zochrot has been tagged as unreliable I can see some instances where Palestine Remembered is inaccurate, although in most instances it is.

[[User:Nayefc|Nayefc]] ([[User talk:Nayefc|talk]]) 08:05, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
:Sure, a lot of clearly biased sources are used on Wikipedia, in that case you are allowed to write that "According to"...etc. Palestine Remembered is a private web-site, a blog if you like, and that is not [[WP:RS]]. I have been fighting tooth and nail to keep it in the "External links"-section, pr [[WP:EL]], I most of all appreciate their pictures: very valuable. Everything else from Pal.Rem which you could put into Wikipedia can much better be sourced to the original source. So, you use Barron, 1923, for the 1922 data, and Mills, 1932, for the 1931 data, and [[User:Huldra/HA|Hütteroth and Abdulfattah]] for the 1596 data. Yes: it is more work, but it is more reliable in the end. If you want to totally waste your time on edit-warring putting "ethnically cleansed" into leads; that is you choice (& then you will be blocked: I have seen it happen countless times.), cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:53, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

::Hi Huldra, do you have any idea of what Nayefc is referring to about Ramle? I presume he's talking about the Dahmash mosque in Lydda. No? [[User:Pashute|פשוט pashute ♫]] ([[User talk:Pashute|talk]]) 04:25, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
::: [[User:Pashute]]: I don't know, sorry. Honestly; there are a lot of guys/gals around here who know a lot more about the 1948 war than I do. I have mostly concentrated on the pre−1948 stuff, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:39, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

== Grid references ==

Suppose the grid reference for villages was added to the info box. It would make questions of identification cleaner. What do you think? [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 03:30, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, I agree, it would be good if the grid reference were added to all the info-boxes, especially on smaller places. All the scholars in the area seems to have some mix-ups. I have no idea as to how we change the info-boxes, though, do you? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
:: I can add the fields, but which info boxes are we talking about? Certainly <nowiki>{{Infobox former Arab villages in Palestine}}</nowiki> but maybe some others should have the option too? Incidentally there is a cheap Mac application that can convert lat+long into Pal grid; I'll check it out then send you email about it. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 00:05, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

OK, I may have correctly added a parameter "palgrid" to go after the lat-long coordinates in <nowiki>{{Infobox former Arab villages in Palestine}}</nowiki>. Please see [[Bayt Dajan]] for an example. I think we can usually use 6 digits like that, but we can also use 8 digits if more accuracy is needed. Does it look ok? [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 10:23, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, it does, but we really need to have something to divide the two numbers, it could be 134.156 or 134/156. And we need something which indicate which number is first; E-W, or N-S: I always mix them up, so I expect other people do, as well! Perhaps: 134.156 (E-W.N-S). or: Palestine grid (E-W, N-S) 134.156.
:(Presently it is like a lot of the science-articles on Wikipedia: completely understandable if, and ''only'' if, you know all the stuff beforehand....)
:About which places should have it: lets start with the info boxes on places which we (and lots of scholars) have mixed up; places in [[Haditha (disambiguation)]], [[Taybeh (disambiguation)]], [[Rumman]], [[Tira]]? I see <nowiki> {{Infobox Palestinian Authority muni}}
{{Infobox settlement}} {{Infobox Israel municipality}} {{Infobox Israel village}}, for a start?</nowiki> [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:17, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
:: It is just a general text field so you can write anything there. I rather like "134/156". I already put in the template instructions that EW goes before NS, but I don't like writing that in the infobox itself. It suggests there is more than one possibility, which there isn't. The field will never mean anything except to those few who understand maps and how map coordinates are formed, so there is no point in trying to explain it to other people. If we had somewhere to wikilink the heading "Palestine grid" to, that would be good. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
:::I see Khalidi use exactly the same, he has written 134156 for [[Bayt Dajan]]. A space, like 134 156 is also a possibility. I agree that it will not mean anything to most people reading it, but we should not make it difficult for people to understand. Btw, I knew nothing about grid-numbers when I started at Wikipedia....now I find they are extremely useful, if not a complete necessity to understand, say the articles of Barag and Frankel. Ok, I´ll start adding the grid-numbers for the 48-places (easy to do, as Khalidi gives them) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:06, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

: I made [[Palestine grid]], please suggest improvements. When it is ok, we can link "Palestine grid" in the infobox to it. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 13:40, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
::Excellent! Actually, I think it looks pretty good now. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:49, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

The WB and Israeli location infoboxes use Infobox Settlement, so I can't add the PalGrid to there easily. But I put in a request for new fields in Infobox Settlement — hopefully it will be done soon. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:38, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
::I hope so, it seems as if most of the "serious" info about these places is given with grid-numbers. Say, Hütteroth &Abdulfattah, Pringle, Finkelstein. Btw [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Frank_Schulenburg#Getting_new_user this]. (Oh, and [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Global_sysops this].) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:53, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
::I have also asked here: [[Template talk:Infobox settlement]], but no reply so far. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 18:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
::: {{ping|Zero0000}} Alas, so they have agreed, and added it to Infobox settlement.....it is just that this does not affect the villages and towns on the West Bank, as they use the "Infobox Palestinian Authority muni" and "Infobox Palestinian Authority municipality"...and I have no idea as to where to ask to have it added there? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 15:19, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
:::: Probably I can do that. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 23:48, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
::::: {{ping|Zero0000}} Please do! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:11, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::Ah, I see Frietjes did it, already :), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:25, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


There are some articles which I would like to insert grid-no (or have inserted grid-no., and they do not show): [[Atlit]], [[Ein Hod]], [[Caesarea]], [[Abu Kabir]], [[Ramla]], [[Taybeh]], [[Ilut]]. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:25, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
: I asked Frietjes to help. For locations using Infobox Israel village and similar, it will be necessary to write "grid_name=[[Palestine grid]]" and "grid_position=aaa/bbb" since it is reasonable to allow newer locations to have the Israel grid instead of the Palestine grid. Incidentally, some places like Atlit are not where they used to be. Perhaps just put it in like "grid_position=formerly 144/234, now 144/232"? [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:57, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

==NPOV==
Whilst Your improvements to articles on Arab villages are welcomed, you must know that changing the description of villages in Israel from "Arab" to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rumana%2C_Israel&diff=642836607&oldid=619345106 Palestinian Arab] is controversial at best. I appreciate you feel strongly about the matter, but we all have to maintain NPOV when editing. Thanks, [[User:Number 57|<font color="orange">Number</font>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<font color="green">5</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<font color="blue">7</font>]] 11:51, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:Number 57]]: I totally disagree here. We normally go by what people define themselves as. We don't have the article [[Blacks in America]] (or rather we do, but it is just a redir), we have [[African American]], as that is what [[African American]]s wants to be known as. Why should it be different for Israel? Most [[Arab citizens of Israel]] want to be known as "Palestinian", why should we deny them their right to do that? (Read the [[Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Terminology]]) It is simply disrespectful to not use the word "Palestinian" on Palestinian Arab places in Israel, Or should the opinion of [[Arab citizens of Israel]] count for nothing? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:37, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
::In a neutral encyclopedia, personal opinions count for nothing – what matters is neutrality and common usage in reliable sources specific to the language the encyclopedia is written in. This is nothing to do with being disrespectful (the "disrespect" argument is commonly used by editors seeking to introduce their non-neutral POV, so I'd avoid using it if I were you). As an aside, for some reason your pings do not work (I only checked back here out of interest to see if you had replied) – try using {{tl|ping}}. Cheers, [[User:Number 57|<font color="orange">Number</font>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<font color="green">5</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<font color="blue">7</font>]] 22:04, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Number 57}}.Thanks for your info about my ping, hope this works better. Anyway: this is also about Wikipedia history: many of the places we are talking about were started as copies from Hebrew Wp, if I recall correctly. If they had been started as copies from Arab wp, I would guess they would all be called just "Palestinian" today. I´m not going to avoid using the word "disrespectful"; (I have not seen it used the way you mention, though I don´t doubt your word), it *is* disrespectful, IMO. In the end, though, it is about what [[WP:RS]] say, and that´s why I thought linking to [[Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Terminology]] could be illuminating. I know that in my own country (in Scandinavia) the term "Israeli Palestinians" are now used by mainstream media. And when even [[The New York Times]] (which can hardly be accused of anti-Israeli bias) use both 'Palestinian Israelis' and 'Israeli Arabs' ....then I do not think it is fair to use the term POV for wanting to use the word "Palestinian Arab". I wonder if we should take this to mediation; to get some new, "fresh" eyes to look at it? (Not that I have had any experience with the process). But frankly, I suspect neither you nor me will change position on this issue, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:39, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
::::I think the question is, if you are aware that both Israeli Arab and Palestinian Arab are in use, why you would choose to change "Arab" to one of the two which potentially cause issues. Using the neutral "Arab" avoids this problem. Why is this not good enough? [[User:Number 57|<font color="orange">Number</font>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<font color="green">5</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<font color="blue">7</font>]] 22:46, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Number 57}} Hmm, for me the question is, Why are people allergic to the word "Palestinian"? If someone wants to be called/identifies with "Palestinian", why not call them that? I have a friend who wants to be addressed as "they", well, I ''did'' struggle with that (all my English-teachers who over the years had tried to teach me one person is either "he" or "she". But now I call "them" "they". (If you see what I mean: earlier "they" would have been a "she" to me!) We respect a Chelsey Manning when she wants to be known as "she", but not Palestinian in Israel who wants to be know as a Palestinian. I think the question is, why is "Arab" "good enough" for them? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:00, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
::::::Two comments - firstly, if someone wants to identify as a Palestinian, they can and it should be noted in their individual article (but it doesn't take away from the fact that they are also still Israeli by virtue of their citizenship). However, Wikipedia is not the place to put labels on a whole group of people who we have no idea whether they accept that label or not. Do you know if every single person in those towns and villages self-identifies as Palestinian? If not, then you cannot label whole towns or villages. Secondly, and more importantly, an encylopedia is meant to be clear and neutral. Labelling a place in Israel as being Palestinian does not offer that clarity or neutrality. The appropriate place to discuss the issue of identification is [[Arab citizens of Israel]] or individual people's articles. [[User:Number 57|<font color="orange">Number</font>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<font color="green">5</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<font color="blue">7</font>]] 23:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|Number 57}} Firstly, how do we know that the people of [[Harlem]] wants to be identified as [[African American]] and not as [[Black American]]s? We don´t. But we know that if the majority of African American wants to be identified as that (and not as "Black American") then we respect that, and name the places as populate by African American. Why should we treat the Palestinian places in Israel any different? Your second point is interesting. You say that "an encylopedia is meant to be clear and neutral"; I agree, but the situation on the ground is ''anything'' but clear; what you are trying to do, IMHO, is to impose a "clarity" on Wikipedia where there is none in the real world. Should not an encyclopaedia reflect the reality? Again, I suggest mediation; to get some new, "fresh" eyes to look at it? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:37, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

If you want mediation, I suggest we detail our prospective cases at [[Talk:Uzeir]] and request a [[WP:Third opinion]]. [[User:Number 57|<font color="orange">Number</font>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<font color="green">5</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<font color="blue">7</font>]] 15:41, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Number 57}}, ok I have summed up my view on [[Talk:Uzeir]], I´ll wait until you have done the same, and then ask for [[WP:Third opinion]]. -[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:15, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
== Your last revert on [[Israeli-occupied territories]] ==

*Can you explain me how ''"The term occupied is challenged by some pro-Israeli official bodies and organizations, including the Israeli government"'' is better than ''"The Israeli government maintains the territories were captured in a defensive war thus according to international law their status is"''
*Since Israeli claims are mentioned in regards to Gaza after 2005, doesn't it make sense to put first Israel claim after 1967. It either both (in that order) or neither. And why it is alone two paragraphs later?
Neither of these change I have made are about my opinion, it is simple logic. If you can't answer, please revert and save me the fire from up above :)
[[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 23:53, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

== Umm al-Kheir ==

I have added a page for [[Umm al-Kheir]]. It can be spelled with an A or E (or some other combinations) so right now it doesn't show on [[Hebron Governorate]] category bar. Cheers. [[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 16:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
: I have moved it to [[Umm al-Khair, Hebron]]: the template name. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 17:18, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

:: Which one of my edits rubbed you the wrong way? None of them touched on Israel-Palestine issues. They were geographical or about towns inside pre-1967 Israel? [[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 17:41, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
:::Most of them. Say, [[List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]] also lies within pre-1967 Israel, still every one of the articles on that list are forbidden to edit by anyone with a topic ban. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 17:49, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

== Guerin's Holy Land ==

It is at Gallica: [http://gallica.bnf.fr/Search?ArianeWireIndex=index&p=1&lang=EN&f_typedoc=livre&q=Guérin%2C+Victor&x=16&y=10]. Note there are two parts even though the first part doesn't seem to identify itself as such. If you have trouble downloading, I can send it to you but it's a bit big (100M each volume). [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 22:29, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
:Thanks! Found it, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:59, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

== communal settlement (Israel) ==

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beit_Hagai&diff=next&oldid=647590521 This] is a type of town/village in Israel. If you don't like it, change the article name. It is more relevant information than neigbouring communities etc.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Carmel,_Har_Hebron&diff=next&oldid=647596335 As for picture from Carmel], your request for RfD is hypocritical as it was added with no discussion. [[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 21:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
:::An Israeli West Bank settlement is an Israeli West Bank settlement: illegal in the eyes of the international community. That you are trying to "normalise" them, by getting them to appear as settlements in Israel pre-1967 (i.e. legal, in the eyes of the international community) is A: highly contentious, B: will not hold. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:59, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barkan_Industrial_Park&oldid=prev&diff=647612424 DISCLAIMER Please note: the text contained in "Arabs and Jews in exemplary coexistence at Barkan – Samaria" has not been corrected, edited or verified by Dem)] What does that even mean? I added a new source from Haaretz as well. [[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 21:48, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
::I copied & pasted from the "Disclaimer" at the bottom of the page you linked to, unfortunately I could not link the whole text, which is as follows: "DISCLAIMER Please note: the text contained in "Arabs and Jews in exemplary coexistence at Barkan – Samaria" has not been corrected, edited or verified by Demotix and is the raw text submitted by the photojournalist. All views and opinions expressed are that of the independent photojournalist and do not represent the views of Demotix Ltd. These details have been included in order to provide as much information as possible to the Media buyer." [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
:::OK, I haven't seen it. But it does say it on the Haaretz article so please, self revert. [[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 23:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::The problem is that it is a "premium" article from Haaretz: unless you subscribe (which I don´t) you cannot see the whole article. What I can see is this: "''EU settlement ban casts shadow over Palestinian industry in the West Bank. Israeli business owners wonder how many Palestinians will lose their jobs if companies are forced to move over the Green Line into Israel proper. It’s early morning in the middle of the week and the Barkan Industrial Park in the West Bank opens the day as always. The thousands of workers in dozens of factories - half Israelis and half Palestinians - arrive for work. Some come from the other side of the Green Line or nearby settlements, some from nearby villages and towns such as Nablus or Salfit.''"
:::::And you want me to re-add "''At Barkan Industrial Park, thousands of Israelis and [[Palestinian people|Palestinians]] coexist and work side by side in many of the factories. Palestinian workers can earn as much as 4 times the monthly average salary in the Palestinian Authority.''".....sourced to what I can see of the above Haaretz-article? Sorry, no way. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:30, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

::::And please explain me, a smart person to another smart person, how that image with 'Carmel in background' isn't POVPUSH. [[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 23:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::Should I copy paste you the article? Can I read every book you quote? Seriously!!!
:::::And while at it, putting a gazillion books in Bibliography in Afula article is clear POVPUSH again. The Palestinian connection is mentioned and there is no need for <big>20</big> books. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. [[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 23:38, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::Huh? I don´t understand what you mean, here. As for the [[Afula]] article, I believe the only references I haven´t yet used are the "Hadashot Arkheologiyot – Excavations and Surveys in Israel"-ones. Never heard anyone objecting to me adding those before?? And when a place has a 1000 year or more with non-Jewish history, and less than 100 years with newer Jewish history: don´t be surprised that there are a "gazillion books" about the non-Jewish history. Oh, and finally: please be careful calling other editors [[WP:POVPUSH]]ers , [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:42, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::: You might be right about Afula. What about reverting Barkan b/c you can't access an article on Haaretz or the image with Carmel 'at the background'?
::::::: Also, please let me know how you want to proceed about [[Community settlement (Israel)]]. I have no problem with droping the ''(Israel)'' from that page if that what bothers you. [[User:Ashtul|Ashtul]] ([[User talk:Ashtul|talk]]) 00:51, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Well, you see, that is the problem: you totally misread my edits on [[Afula]], and make the quite serious accusation of [[WP:POVPUSH]] against me......and *then* you ask me to trust your reading of the Haaretz article I cannot see. Seriously, do you think that is a reasonable request? (Thank you for admitting your mistake on Afula, at least).
::::::::As for the [[Community settlement (Israel)]]-article: frankly, the article is horrible; it looks as if 90% is completely unsourced. If you want to improve the situation, then I suggest that you start by adding sources, in English, preferably. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

:::::::: A good thing is that articles behind paywall at Haaretz and many other websites can still be read if you look at the cached version. If you search on the article or the link on Google, you can find an arrow that is like an upside down triangle when you get a result and you can press it and pick "Cached". --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 16:47, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::..ok, thanks for the tip! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:41, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

== Umm Safa ==

At [[Rawabi]]. Can we link that to a Palestinian site? Fanks. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 17:34, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Nishidani}} Sure, it is Umm Suffah on SWP map 14, just West of [['Atara]]. It is one of the few red-linked villages in the Ramallah and al-Bireh Governorate. SWP: "apparently connected with an ancient Maspha or Mizpeh, II, [http://archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp02conduoft#page/291/mode/1up 291], [http://archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp02conduoft#page/378/mode/1up 378]. It is also in Guerin. Do you want to start it? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 18:09, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
::Fanks indeedly chieftainess. Cripes, I'm already full up to pussy's bow with woik, and though I'd like to, I'm flat out like an effing starving lizard. 'Nother day, praps.
: Was also called Kafr Ishwa'. Samaria survey 1 p. 401. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 20:32, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Zero0000}} Which Samaria survey 1?? Surely not Guerin, he is up at Nablus around Samaria 1, p. 401? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:40, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
::: The Finkelstein one, Highlands Of Many Cultures, Vol 1. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 20:45, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
:::: Ah, right, thanks, He also gives Guerin, 1875: [http://archive.org/stream/descriptiongogr04gugoog#page/n136/mode/1up 109], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:46, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
{{od}}
See [[Talk:Ramallah and al-Bireh Governorate]] [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:32, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

:[[User:Nishidani]], ok, I have started it....Guerin seems to have described it twice...under different names! See [[Talk:Umm Safa]] (better French speakers than me is needed), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:00, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

== Grid changes for Israeli locations ==

<s>For localities with infobox "Israel municipality", "Israel village" or equivalent (includes "Kibbutz") I removed the "palgrid" field to allow more general possibilities. The fields to use now are "grid_name" and "grid_position".

For locations in Israel it is reasonable to use the present Israeli grid (ITM), and for places with a history it is reasonable to use the Palestine grid to match the large number of historical and archaeological sources that use it. I'm suggesting syntax like at [[Amka]], which I input like
| grid_name=Grid position
| grid_position=166/265 <nowiki>[[Palestine grid|PAL]]<br></nowiki>215400/764900 <nowiki>[[Israel Transverse Mercator|ITC]]</nowiki>
but of course the grid could be named like before if only one is used. For places like Caesarea which moved from their original locations, we could use PAL for the original position and ITM for the current position. [http://amudanan.co.il/?lon=35.163333&lat=32.979444 Amudanan] has ITC.</s>

I'd edit the documentation next. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 09:14, 25 February 2015 (UTC) {{ping|Brad Dyer}}

: But this may change, see Frejtjes' talk page. I'm struggling to find time to engage with this today.. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 00:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

OK, Frejtjes has applied a bit of template magic. For localities with infobox "Israel municipality", "Israel village" or equivalent (includes "Kibbutz"), you can use any or all of these fields:
| palgrid=XXX/YYY (Palestine grid)
| ITMgrid=XXXXXX/YYYYYY (Current Israel grid)
| ICSgrid=XXXXXX/YYYYYY (Obsolete Israel grid; hard to see any reason to ever use this)
| grid_position=ANYTHING Free text
Don't use "grid_name" at all. Whichever fields are used will appear with the heading "Grid position". I'm thinking of changing the Palestine infoboxes too, as no edit would be needed to those articles. The difference will be that instead of "Palestine grid &nbsp; XXX/YYY" it will show "Grid position &nbsp; XXX/YYY (PAL)". [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 08:43, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Frietjes}}, {{ping|Zero0000}}: I have added palgrid-numbers to places like [[Taybeh]] and [[Abwein]], but they are not visible. Any reason? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:17, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
:: that article using the world-wide {{tl|infobox settlement}} directly, and not one of the regional-specific wrappers like {{tl|Infobox Israel municipality}} or {{tl|Infobox Kibbutz}}. hence, you will need to use different syntax, like
<pre>
| grid_position = ... [[Palestine grid|PAL]]
</pre>
or
<pre>
| grid_name = [[Palestine grid]]
| grid_position = ...
</pre>
:: [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 22:24, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Frietjes}} ok, I see; thanks again! Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 02:13, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Frietjes}}Is it possible to get it on infobox building? There are articles which only identify [[Khan al-Tujjar (Mount Tabor)]] by its grid-number, but I cannot get it into the info box. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:09, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
::::: added. [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 14:56, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::Thanks! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:04, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|Frietjes}}...and Infobox ancient site? I´m trying to put grid-numbers into [[Arsuf]], but they don´t show up. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:35, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::: should work now. [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 21:42, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::Thanks! that was super-quick! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:44, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

== Catch up ==

Brookie popping by here, to check you're trouble free after last Xmas's problems - if not - shout! --<span style="text-shadow:#194D00 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em" class="texhtml">[[User:Brookie|'''<font color="#000888">Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} </font>''']] [[User talk:Brookie|<sup>(Whisper...)</sup>]]</span> 17:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Brookie}} Thanks, yes, it has been wonderfully quiet and trouble-free here, thanks again! I know people are in two minds about this; some like to keep their talk-pages unprotected, arguing that time used to vandalise it, is time *not* used to vandalise anything important. However, I´m not really her to fight vandals (thought I´m very, very grateful for those who do!), I´m here to write /build articles, and having to spend a lot of time "cleaning up" my talk-page keeps me away from that main goal. So thanks again! Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:21, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

== Question ==

Do you know of any reason to believe [[Wikipedia talk:Long-term abuse/JarlaxleArtemis|this guy]] is more likely to be posting to my talk page than [[Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Runtshit|this guy]]? Thank for any info. [[User:Gouncbeatduke|Gouncbeatduke]] ([[User talk:Gouncbeatduke|talk]]) 16:54, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

:{{tps}}Hi Gouncbeatduke. Runtshit's edits are motivated by an intense hatred of a British socialist and anti-Zionist. I have no reason to believe he has targeted you.
:Please read [[WP:Revert, block, ignore]]. These vandals thrive on attention, so let's not give them what they want. —&nbsp;[[User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Malik Shabazz|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|Stalk]]</sub> 17:20, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Gouncbeatduke}} It is exactly like {{ping|Malik Shabazz}} say; [[Wikipedia talk:Long-term abuse/JarlaxleArtemis|this guy]] target ''everyone'' in the Israel/Palestine area who he consider not "pro-Israeli" enough. While Runtshit is obsessed with ''one'' person only, and follows him around. Since that person is interested in the Israel/Palestine area, most editors in the area will sooner or later encounter one of Runtshit´s many, many socks. It is highly unlikely that Runtshit has targeted you: Runtshit has an allergy against a person who is Jewish, ''and'' at the same time declares himself as anti-Zionist.
:::[[WP:Revert, block, ignore]] and [[WP:DENY]] are vital here. Don´t make a fuzz; after a while you you will get used to them both, just like you get used to mosquitos in the summer..... Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:38, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

== Tiamut? ==

Hey there Huldra,
Are you in touch with [[User:Tiamut]] at all? She kind of disappeared from the face of the planet after she had been so active and meticulous in her Wikipedia editing! --[[User:Fjmustak|Fjmustak]] ([[User talk:Fjmustak|talk]]) 00:11, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Fjmustak}} Yes, I´m in contact with her. She is fine, just very, ''very'' occupied in RL. She just uploaded [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tiamut a couple of pictures to commons], after a recent picnic to [[Ma'alul]]. Don´t worry; she will be back...eventually, (And yeah; I miss her terribly, too!) Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:54, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Huldra}} Could you please relay the message that a group of us is creating a Wikipedia user group in Palestine. There are very few Wikipedians I know in Palestine, and she would be great asset to the group. She can email me if she wishes. Same goes for any others you know in Palestine. Regards --[[User:Fjmustak|Fjmustak]] ([[User talk:Fjmustak|talk]]) 20:13, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Fjmustak}} Ok, I will, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:10, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

== Listing of the depopulated Palestinian villages ==

Hi. As you know very well ([[User:Huldra/Morris-list]] is helpful), there are different figures given about the depopulated Palestinian villages. I am wondering about al-Subeih (the full name is "Arab al-Subeih"), which was a Bedouin tribe, and I added it more than year ago to [[Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]] after seeing it listed in the main article. It seems to be the only tribe listed and I think there should be some consistency. Benny Morris and Walid Khalid [http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Right-Of-Return/Story432.html#Table%201 list 17] each but not all are the same while Salman Abu Sitta [http://www.plands.org/books/book%2002-04.html#tar2 lists 99], including 78 in the Beersheba area. This is mentioned on [[1948 Palestinian exodus#Abandoned, evacuated and destroyed Palestinian localities]] but not in [[List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]]. What do you think?

It is not either mentioned there that several towns were overwhelmingly emptied of their Palestinian residents. No matter if they are listed are not (Benny Morris list them but not, according to that section, Walid Khalidi), it is worth mentioning. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 16:47, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
:Ah, the Bedouin tribes are a bit of my guilty conscience; I know far too little about them. Yes, that template should probably be expanded, but it is not my top priority; there are simply too many articles on that list which are sub-standard already; I prioritise to bring the existing articles there up to a certain standard.
:Note also the [[User:Huldra/Morris2-list]]: there should not be any red-listed names on that list, but there is.....lots of these new Israeli settlements changed names; and I have not figured out all, yet. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:22, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

:: That is a great list too. I think Arab al-Subeih should be treated as the rest of the tribes so I will take a look on the lists more.

:: Regarding another village, I saw recently on [[al-Jammama]] that [[Ruhama]] was established on the village's land. However, I saw that [[Beit Kama]] had some info that also relates to al-Jammama. This was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beit_Kama&diff=471741558&oldid=440179865 added] by a user three years ago but then vastly reduced by other users. I only have the book by Benny Morris and not the one by Walid Khalidi and the other one sourced. Can you take a look and see what Khalidi says? Thanks. I see that Morris writes "Beit Kama - southeast of Jammama - 1949" under number 167 at xx - MAPS.

:: There is some who remove sourced info about Palestinian villages. I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bar_Yohai&diff=prev&oldid=655067652 saw] this yesterday and just saw [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kfar_Kisch&diff=505261348&oldid=414448454 this]. You, who know the villages very well, had added info about the history in both but as I said, some remove such mentions. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 05:15, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
:::Glad you find the Morris-lists useful; Zero and I spend quite some time trying to sort them out. Note that Morris obviously made some mistakes, e.g. on [[User:Huldra/Morris-list]] villages #268 and #274 are probably the same village.....
:::Khalidi does not mention [[Beit Kama]] at all, only [[Ruhama]] is on [[al-Jammama]] -land according to him. Morris mentions that it is ''near'' [[al-Jammama]] (very important to note that you cannot compare directly Khalidi and Morris; as Morris gave the geographic locality, while Khalidi went into *who* the land actually belonged to.)
:::And "certain" editors are removing which village the kibbutzes or settlement were built on *all* the time, that is why I normally keep them "watched", but I missed the [[Kfar Kisch]]-one; thanks for spotting it! (I have 3,800 articles on my watch-list now, so yeah, I miss some!)
:::If you need some more info from Khalidi: don´t hesitate to ask.[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:18, 7 April 2015 (UTC)


:::On another note; [http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Berggren Jacob Berggren] was one of the early travellers in Palestine (1820-22), and he is the earliest modern source for several places, such as [[Al-Shaykh Muwannis]] and [[Tubas]]. I am therefor very interested in having an article about him here, on en.wp. Some sources:
:::*http://runeberg.org/sbh/berggrja.html
:::*http://archive.org/search.php?query=jakob%20Berggren
::: Interested in helping out? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:28, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:::: I have seen you point out some errors.

:::: Thanks for looking at it in the book. Can you clarify if only the Jewish localities that was formed on the site of depopulated Palestinian villages should mentioned in the infobox etc. and not those on village land? As far I have seen, both are mentioned.

:::: I don't have the third source, which is called "Ancient Christian Villages of Judaea and the Negev" and written by Bellarmino Bagatti, and no one of those who removed the text made any mention if they have the sources either, but just that it is "POV" etc. The text added was "The kibbutz was founded on 18 April 1949 on the lands of the Christian Palestinian village of al-Jammama, whose inhabitants were forcibly displaced on 22 May 1948 after a Jewish military assault on their village, and were never allowed to return" and this edition with the refs can be seen [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beit_Kama&oldid=471741558 here]. It is clear that it was attacked then and depopulated but not if it is related to [[Beit Kama]]. So what I want to do is work on that. If no reliable source reports about a connection to the Palestinian village, then that part should be removed. If they do, that should be reinserted. Now what we have is some part that was greatly changed without any of those removing and changing parts telling if they had even looked at the sources, only that they found it "POV", "charged" etc.

:::: I also have many articles in my watchlist (though I need a much bigger one) and I would hope I would have to spend less time on reverting people (mainly IPs) who fail to edit according to the policies of Wikipedia. Just look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Use_of_torture_since_1948&diff=650673840&oldid=647780415 this] I found one month ago, which was removed 2.5 years ago (it is still not clear if one other edit in that section should be reverted and I will look more at it soon). I have thought to bring it up on a board to follow up on the discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Archive 8#IP area still being swamped by socks]]. It is very boring to see several edits every day who remove facts, whitewash history etc. and many others are not discovered until a very long time (for example, I found about this torture article after I had read about a new Haaretz investigation and then saw the removals after looking at the Revision history) and this is seen as insignificant in comparision to for example a 1RR violation. It can't be that one 1RR violation is treated as much worse than violations of NPOV, for example. One action could be to semi-protect the area. But this is another topic and I will soon discuss it on a board.

:::: If you create such an article, I will take a look at it and I have already found for example [http://sok.riksarkivet.se/sbl/Presentation.aspx?id=18598 this] by the [[National Archives of Sweden]]. By the way, I saw that there are articles about Jacob Berggren in the Swedish Wikipedia and Arabic one. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 11:15, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::In the info-box for the 48-villages: we should definitely put *all* the Israeli settlements on Palestinian village land, not only those exactly on the village site. (Very few new Israeli settlements were *exactly* on the old Palestinian site.) I don´t have the Bagatti-book either, but from what I can see it is about ancient Christian settlements. And undoubtedly the area was Christian...back in Byzantine times. But is is completely wrong to write "The kibbutz was founded on 18 April 1949 on the lands of the Christian Palestinian village of al-Jammama"..firstly, al-Jammama had probably not been Christian for a 1000-1500 years, and Morris only say that Beit Kama was *near* (south-east) of al-Jammama. I have changed it, and removed the Khalidi-ref in the Beit Kama -article. (Khalidi never mentions Beit Kama)
:::::I would love to see the whole ARBIA area semi-protected, I´ve had my talk-page semied since December, and it has been wonderfully quiet here. At least now I can concentrate more on writing articles, and not with death/rape-threaths on my [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&offset=&limit=500&page=User+talk%3AHuldra&type=&user= user-page].
:::::I´ll look around a bit more for Berggren, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:43, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::: Okay. Good that you worked on [[Beit Kama]]. I added that it was Palestinian and was depopulated as it was changed to only "Arab" and "conquered" while the fact that they were depopulated is the reason for the Palestinian refugee crisis, no matter what anyone thinks was the reason it started and if it was right to destroy nearly all of them and stop the refugees from coming back. So it is undisputed that they were depopulated, though both sides may prefer another term as you know. I also removed the older ref now as the only thing that what was left was from Benny Morris.

:::::: So should it be on [[al-Jammama]]'s infobox that Morris writes Beit Kama was established southeast to it? Because I saw you edited it but did not add it to either it there or in a section.

:::::: It is horrible some write such things on people's talk page.

:::::: I will look forward to see the article about Jacob Berggren being created. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 14:47, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::I do not think that [[Beit Kama]] should be in the info-box of [[Al-Jammama]]; we normally only have the places Khalidi mentions there. We can of course have it in the article -text, as we have RS (=Morris) that Beit Kama was founded S-E of it. (It could now, of course, have spread onto Al-Jammama land; (see the [[Kiryat Gat]] -[[Al-Faluja]] example); but we simply do not know that.) However, you should perhaps have let the Bagatti-ref stand, as none of us have checked it?
:::::::When I edit these articles, I feel sometimes I´m at a factory assembly-line; Guerin; check, SWP, check, 1922, check...etc. Often I take one or two of the same "operations" over a lot of articles; that is more effective. Which means that normally there is still a lot to do after I have finished editing an article for the day! It is virtually only when I go for a DYK that I try to do it all.
:::::::I see our "mutual friend" has visited [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User+talk%3AIRISZOOM you, too]? If it gets too bad: just get it semied, cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:36, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::::: Thanks for clarifying that. If that is how it is, we stick with what Khalidi says. Yes, it should be in the body and it makes no sense have it in [[Beit Kama]] but not in [[al-Jammama]], which is the article about that Palestinian village. Okay, then I know why you did that as I was unsure if it should be added.

:::::::: If nothing from Bagatti's book is left in the article, I don't see why we shoud keep the ref. The only thing there is from Morris. However, perhaps I should ask at [[WP:Palestine]] or some other venue if someone can check that source?

:::::::: There was some person who wrote such things after I reverted some bad words inserted at [[Rula Jebreal]]. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 20:51, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::As it is *only* Khalidi who gives "current localities on the land", we follow him. Morris is simply is not specific enough to use on this. As for Bagatti, when I used preview: I did not find Beit Kama, but I *did* find Jammama. The Bagatti-ref. should probably go into the Biblio in the Jammama-article. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:00, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

:::;::::::: Good, now I know exactly how it works.

::::::::::: I will bring it up in some venue. I can't preview the book, though search results show some small parts of it. One of the hits are from the same page that was referenced to by the editor (page 149). --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 21:10, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::I should hasten to say that this is the ideal...in reality, lots and lots of the ''|curlocl='' is not sourced at all. ...or sourced to Morris (I just ce´ed one such at [[Al-Sarafand]].) IMO: those "curlocl" which is only sourced to Morris, should -eventually- go into the article text, and not be in the info-box. The unsourced ones have mostly been taken from the Pal.rem. site: no specific source given. That is not good enough. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::: Okay. Another thing I think is missing is translations of the names on many articles, which I for some time have thought to add. There are some sources on the names in Arabic and also in Hebrew. The easiet one to get them from is Palestine Remembered.

::::::::::::: I think Zochrot could be a good [[WP:EL]]. They got statistics, images, videos stories, descriptions from Khalidi etc. The part about the built-up area and land is split there, by the way.

::::::::::::: Furthermore, most of the external links that are on articles here are now dead links. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 22:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Oh, please, please do. I do not speak/read/write either Arabic or Hebrew ..(I´m definitely no linguist). Having especially the Arabic names of places is vital. E.g., Guerin, in his later books, always gives the Arabic names (and spelling). Though I know absolutely no Arabic, I have identified many of the places in [[User:Huldra/Guerin]] after comparing the spelling of villages he visited, with the names given in Arabic on their Wikipedia article.
:::::::::::::: As for Zochrot being [[WP:EL]]: absolutely. The problem with Zochrot (as with POICA and ARIJ-links on the West Bank places): they have been changing their url too often. Extremely frustrating (I have added lots and lots of those now dead links...) I know Al Ameer sons was also quite frustrated over this.(I think the ARIJ changed url 3 times, or something). Therefor ........I had simply planned to ignore most of those [[WP:EL]] for a year ..or three; until they "settle down". When I add [[WP:EL]]s, it is normally to Pal.rem (which have never changed its URLs in the 10+ years I have looked at it) or IAA, or commons; in short: the "steady ones". [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:08, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::::PS: probably all the [[WP:EL]] links to [[Khalil Sakakini Cultural Center]] should go; they are presently dead, and were not very great to begin with. In a year...or three; I will start to remove them, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:53, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::: I will do it but I am not sure when I will start. There are many villages so it takes some time.

::::::::::::::: Yes, [[link rot]] can be a big problem. That is why it is best to add the title but also the author in the these links. I agree with you about removing them. Same with those to http://www.jalili48.com/ that are not working (by Dr. Moslih Kanaaneh), which seems to be nearly all. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 09:21, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Actually, the http://www.jalili48.com -links are mostly (all?) still there, that is a case of link rot again. I have found them quite informative (and great pictures!) ...so make sure that the links are actually gone (as opposed to moved url) before you remove the links. Look here: http://www.jalili48.com/pub/xENPhotogallery.aspx?ID=What_Remained_of_the_destroyed
::::::::::::::::All the early POICA-links are dead, but you can easily find the new address by googeling the title of the article, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 19:23, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::: I mentioned the problems on that site while we were talking about the other site. I did a search for the description of the villages (that I found on Wayback Machine) on http://www.jalili48.com and did not find anything on Google. If they were informative, the archived version can be added instead. However, there are images left I see on your link, which is good. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 22:15, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::Yeah, I have also used archive.org for that place for a while, but presently they seem to be working again. Link-rot, and all that. If there is a specific site -link you are thinking of, then please tell me, and I´ll try to locate its new url, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:52, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::: I was confusing them. I meant http://www.alnakba.org, which as you say is run by [[Khalil Sakakini Cultural Center]], so we are now speaking about the same. Those can't be found via Google, though can be found on Webarchive. See for example http://web.archive.org/web/20100819192917/http://www.alnakba.org/villages/haifa/sarafand.htm. Are the descriptions from Walid Khalidi? --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 13:47, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, that wording is exactly the same as in Khalidi. Actually, that is more than is at the Pal.rem-site....perhaps it would be useful to keep the link (to archive.org) after all? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 19:38, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

{{od}}

Then I think we can keep it too. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 09:12, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
:Btw, Wikipedia have now been granted general right to use all the Pal.rem-sites pictures over at commons; which is absolutely great news! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:36, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

:: Nice to hear.

:: By the way, I will borrow ''All That Remains'' very soon.--[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 23:41, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

:: I have now asked at [[WT:PALESTINE]] if anyone got acces to the book by Bagatti and can look in it. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 22:04, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
::::{{ping|IRISZOOM}} : the one place which *really* should be included (in the Gaza district) is [[Al-Majdal, Askalan]]. Presently, it is only a redir to [[Ashkelon]] (as is [[Al majdal]]). Khalidi did not include it, as he did not include towns (Khalidi, 1992, p. XX), but since we do include towns (like [[Ramla]] and [[Lydda]]...we should probably include [[Haifa]], too)...then we should include [[Al-Majdal, Askalan]], too.
::::Oh, btw, could you please keep [[Ein Ayala]] and [[HaHotrim]] "watched"? Some joker removes info from them, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:20, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

::::: Include where? I added them to my watchlist now. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 22:15, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|IRISZOOM}} Thanks, and I was thinking on the template: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
:::::: [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:20, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

::::::: That is not consistent at all. Perhaps the template could be separated to add that several cities were also depopulated of Palestinians, as for example Benny Morris and Rochelle A. Davis mentions.

::::::: I will remove al-Subeih now as it was only one of many tribes depopulated. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 22:35, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::::{{ping|IRISZOOM}} I´m in two minds about it....on one hand it is called "Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus" ....so what is [[Ramla]] and [[Lydda]] doing there? And we have [[List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]]...where Majdal is also listed. The problem is that those not listed on the template tends to get forgotten, except for the really famous ones, like [[Ramla]] and [[Lydda]]. Khalidi specifically mentions 4 places: Ramla, Lydda, Haifa and Majdal. Of course there were others, like Safad and Tiberias. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:45, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

::::::::: It needs to be consistent so either all cities/towns (or those four) or none should be listed. It is the same when it comes to the tribes. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 22:58, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::{{ping|IRISZOOM}} Agreed. It seems that they are all listed at the start of the article [[List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]]...but they are not linked. Perhas they should be. For me it was just ironic that it was easier to find info about the depopulation of villages with a few hundred, or even a few dozen inhabitants, than it was to find information about large towns. [http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.658179 This], btw, is interesting, as it contradicts say, the Golda Meir-story about Haifa. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::: That part in the lead was added by me less than two months ago. I didn't list them as it is unclear if they should be, as this discussion shows, but they are clearly relevant to mention, not least for the reason you mention. Yes, an in interesting story but I will read the whole article later. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 23:17, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::{{ping|IRISZOOM}} Yes, we should list them separately somewhere...now they "drown" in the list of village article. Another group of villages which should be listed is the depopulated so called "Templer settlements". Again, Khalidi specifically writes that he does not include them, as "despite the presence of Arab workers and residents, they were not Palestinian villages but colonies set up by the German Templars at the end of the nineteenth century." However, that is a truth with modifications; eg., [[Bethlehem of Galilee]] had existed as an Arab village for centuries before the Germans arrived, and in both the 1922 & 1931 census there was a majority of Muslim residents. I haven´t expanded the other German Templar articles yet (I´m getting there!)..but it would not surprise me if several showed similar development. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::::: Where can they be listed? I do think they can be mentioned in any relevant article but if it is only listing towns and villages, the cities (though some call them towns) don't belong there. However, then it should be consistent as some cities/towns are listed while others are not. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 09:31, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::::{{ping|IRISZOOM}} Perhaps 2 new paragraphs in [[List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]]? One for the towns/cities (everything which is not covered by Khalidi), and one for the Templar places? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:23, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

{{od}}

Yes. However, there should be some consistency on that template and the listing in that article. As you said, two to three cities are mentioned on those pages. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 17:01, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
:Absolutely. What if we, in the article, had a paragraph first, named, say, "Cities and towns depopulated of its Arab population", then start that paragraph with *how* we define "depopulated"; (losing more than 50% of its Arab population? Any other percentage?) Then a wikilinked list of towns and cities fulfilling these criteria. Then change each of the titles in the Subdistricts, so that "Acre Subdistrict" becomes "Villages in the Acre Subdistrict" etc. And remove any town presently included there (Lydda, Ramle). Then remove all towns from the template, too...or put the same town/cities at the top? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 18:50, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

:: Do you mean a section in the article for cities/towns?

:: The article and template should resemble each other so if they are listed in the first one, they should be in the template too and if they are not, remove them.

:: It is up to the reliable sources to classify them as depopulated or not. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 23:23, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|IRISZOOM}} yes, that is exactly what I meant. Get the towns/cities in a separate section up at the start of the article, and rename the headers to reflect that it is only the villages that is included. And then: similar in the template. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:10, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

:::: That seems to be a good solution. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 12:22, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

== Was that your request on Commons? ==

[https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=prev&diff=132697929] Correct, I just used a random name. In fact, I have never even had issues with the person in question. I just thought of an American schoolkid's name. Thanks for making the appeal! [[User:Peter Damian|Peter Damian]] ([[User talk:Peter Damian|talk]]) 17:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Peter Damian}} yes it was, not that it helped a lot. Do you want me to make another try? It has been over 6 months. (Link to the whole discussion [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive_48#Peter_Damian_block here]) (Btw, I hope to take over the "Huldra" name at commons too, soon, as part of the SUL-effort); [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:45, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:: Leave it for now. I did want to load some of incunabula collection there, but it's not urgent (give or take a few hundred years). [[User:Peter Damian|Peter Damian]] ([[User talk:Peter Damian|talk]]) 21:11, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Peter Damian}} Ok, as you wish. You could off course also upload it here (...just to show them what they are missing ;P) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:16, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
::::You can upload it here?
Thanks for the link to the discussion (which I hadn't seen before). I left a message on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AF%C3%A6&diff=657022061&oldid=655480721 Fae's page], in case it makes any difference, hopefully not for the worse. [[User:Peter Damian|Peter Damian]] ([[User talk:Peter Damian|talk]]) 10:53, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Peter Damian}} Sure, you can upload pictures (such as [http://www.logicmuseum.com/books/middleton/soardi1507/1-001r.JPG this one]) to en.wp, actually, I think the the copy-right requirements are less strict on en.wp than on commons. (Though I am not an expert on that!) From my understanding: everything you can upload to commons, you can also upload to en.wp; but *not* the other way around. (Btw, I love old prints/manuscripts, and I was absolutely delighted to find one for the [[Beit Hanoun]]-page).
:The discussion on commons about your ban back then was....well, like talking to a stone. Or several stones. A waste of time. People had their mind made up in advance, and nothing I would say would make a difference. I would suggest that you upload a bit to en.wp instead: see the "upload file"-button on the left. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 14:57, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

==DYK for Burqin==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#19 April 2015|19 April 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Burqin]]''''', which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that the [[Palestinian people|Palestinian]] town of '''[[Burqin]]''' has one of the oldest [[Byzantine Empire|Byzantine]] churches in the world?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Burqin|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Burqin]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Burqin|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Burqin]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Burqin&datefrom=2015-04-01&dateto=2015-04-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201504/Burqin daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom --> Sunday on the wiki looks better with your contribution - Thanks [[User:Victuallers|Victuallers]] ([[User talk:Victuallers|talk]]) 15:06, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

== library service ==

Hi Huldra. Tomorrow I can vist the Tel Aviv University library again, where the Bagatti book was found. If you want any other quick looks like that leave me a message. [[User:Danny lost|trespassers william]] ([[User talk:Danny lost|talk]]) 20:58, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Danny lost}} Thanks! Could you just confirm (or not) what IRISZOOM and I suspected: that the book is about the ancient, that is Byzantine era? I see we have the book ("Ancient Christian villages of Judaea and the Negev / Bellarmino Bagatti", 2002) also in my country, but it would be an out-of-city loan for me. Guess I should get hold of it at one time, and "plot in" all the places he mentions. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
::Already posted page images at rhe other talk [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine]] . You were right. I mean is there any other source you want to check? [[User:Danny lost|trespassers william]] ([[User talk:Danny lost|talk]]) 21:38, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Danny lost}} Ok, then not really. At the moment I have more than enough of stuff to add to articles..... Btw, take a look at the maps down on the [[Charles William Meredith van de Velde]] -page. In 1858, we had ''El Kaweh'' and ''el Kabireh'' clearly marked. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:46, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

== al-Araqa ==
Have we an article on this village? [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 09:03, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Nishidani}} I assume you mean [[Araqah]], 15 kilometers west of [[Jenin]]? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 11:47, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
::Once more I doff my hatless head to your omniscience.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 11:53, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

== Thanks :) ==

Thank you for your civility while contesting my edit. It's rather refreshing for a Palestine-Israel dispute. --<small style="font: 13px Courier New>[[User:Monochrome Monitor]]</small>|<small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monochrome</small><big>_</big>[[User talk:Monochrome Monitor]]<small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monitor</small> 22:45, 9 May 2015 (UTC); edited to fix code colour display, [[User:Drcrazy102|Drcrazy102]] ([[User talk:Drcrazy102|talk]]) 02:33, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Monochrome Monitor]], thanks, same to you! ;P Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:47, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

== [[Beit Sakariya]] ==

Hello my dear,

Sorry for the long absence. Little time to spare but this needs an article. Added some sources to talk. Can you add more there if you have them? If someone starts filling it in I promise I will add more. Kisses, [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 19:03, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
:Lovely to see you! I have started "dumping stuff" at [[Talk:Beit Sakariya]], not quite sure if it is on SWP map 17 or map 21? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:52, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
:: [[User:Zero0000]]: may I ask you to recover what you can find on [[Talk:Beit Sakariya]], and dump it in [[User:Huldra/Beit Sakariya]]? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:53, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

== Thank You ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:WikiDefender_Barnstar.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For bravery and integrity during the Contribsx ArbCom case. [[User:Vordrak|Vordrak]] ([[User talk:Vordrak|talk]]) 23:09, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
|}{{z147}}
:Well, thank you, [[User:Vordrak]]. I rarely get involved in these policy-issues (I´m basically a content-writer in the I/P aera)..but this was getting just too sickening. Glad he got desysopped, but there are still many unanswered questions about WMUK´s involvement. They have been less than complete transparent, put it that way. If there ever is a vote, I will vote for allotting 0,00 $ of WMF money to WMUK: they simply do not have my trust. Now, back to gnoming.... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:33, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

== Formal mediation has been requested ==
{{Ivmbox
| <!---MedComBot-Do-not-remove-this-line-Notified-Bayt Nattif--->The [[Wikipedia:Mediation Committee|Mediation Committee]] has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Bayt Nattif". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. [[Wikipedia:Mediation|Mediation]] is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the [[Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Bayt Nattif|request page]], the [[Wikipedia:Mediation Committee/Policy|formal mediation policy]], and the [[Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Guide|guide to formal mediation]], '''please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate.''' Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 21 June 2015.}}

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.<br>
<small>Message delivered by [[User:MediationBot|MediationBot]] ([[User talk:MediationBot|talk]]) on [[Wikipedia:Mediation Committee#MediationBot|behalf]] of the Mediation Committee. 19:32, 14 June 2015 (UTC)</small>
</br>
== Restored Hebrew name for Palestinian Arab village ==

Regardless of what we feel about the justification for a Palestinian Arab village becoming an Israeli colony, we should still include the Hebrew place names for these places, don't you agree? Otherwise I think we risk letting our POV enter the role of arbiter of the inclusion of facts. Let me know what your thinking is on this issue. '''[[User:Andrevan|Andrevan]]'''[[User_talk:Andrevan|@]] 01:42, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Andrevan]]: I will answer on the article talk page where this discussion belongs (I also note it was raised there, but brought to you less than an hour later: long before I had a chance to reply), Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:29, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

==Abu Zurayq has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{DYKM|box3|text=Hello, Huldra. [[Abu Zurayq]], an article you either created or significantly contributed to, has been nominated&nbsp; to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Zurayq|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 14:58, 18 June 2015 (UTC)}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

==DYK for Abu Zurayq==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#21 June 2015|21 June 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Abu Zurayq]]''''', which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that the depopulated [[Palestinians|Palestinian]]-[[Turkmens|Turkmen]] village of '''[[Abu Zurayq]]''' near [[Haifa]] was named after a local Muslim holy man?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Zurayq|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Zurayq]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Abu Zurayq|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Abu Zurayq]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Abu_Zurayq&datefrom=2015-06-01&dateto=2015-06-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201506/Abu_Zurayq daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom --> &nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Chris Woodrich]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 16:15, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

== Following up ==

Hi Huldra,

I saw [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)&diff=668540643&oldid=668538937 your note] and wanted to check in to see if you had any more information that might be useful for a possible bug report or feature request. If something wasn't working or didn't do what you want, then please let me know what you tried to do or what happened. (If you just didn't like it, then that's fine; I personally use both editing systems, depending upon what I want to do.)

Also, as a point of clarification, the goal isn't to make VisualEditor "the default"; the proposal is to make ''both'' options available, and to let editors choose which one they want to use (for each edit). [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|talk]]) 18:01, 25 June 2015 (UTC)


{{ping|Whatamidoing (WMF)}} Thank you for your note.
Firstly, I should tell you that I mostly edit articles which comes under “Wikiproject Palestine”. Now, there are 3 things that count there, and that is references, references and references. Unreferenced, or badly referenced info is normally quickly removed from the articles. (We have many, many pro-Israeli editors who make sure of that!)

Since the same books often are referenced several times, we normally place the reference in a Biblio-section, and then use a “simple” ref in the article. Look at the above recent DYK, [[Abu Zurayq]], for an example. And since the books often have extensive previews, we try to link to the page, like: <nowiki><ref name="Benvenisti74">Benvenisti, 2000, p. [http://books.google.com/books?id=7itq6zYtSJwC&pg=PA74 74]</ref></nowiki>
How can I do that using the VE?

The above was a ''very'' simple example. A lot of the modern sources use books from pre-1900: say all the Pringle and Sharon-books I have mentioned in [[User:Huldra/Sources]]. Now, the wonderful thing is that these old sources are not copy-righted, and have all come online these last 10 years, either on books.google or archive.org (+ some other placed, like gutenberg). Now, even if not all the Pringle, or Sharon-pages are online, we can always link directly to their sources! Which is a wonderful thing to be able to, and is what I do, all the time. Take [[Mi'ilya]],
where a sentence like: </br>
“In 1179 Viscountess Petronella of [[Acre, Israel|Acre]] sold the houses, vineyards and gardens of Mi'ilya to Count [[Jocelyn III]], uncle of [[Baldwin IV]],” </br>
have as reference:</br>
"Strehlke, 1869, pp. [http://archive.org/stream/tabulaeordinist00stregoog#page/n27/mode/1up 11]-12, No. 11; cited in Röhricht, 1893, RRH, p. [http://archive.org/stream/regestaregnihie00rhgoog#page/n162/mode/1up 156], No. 587; cited in Pringle, 1997, p. [http://books.google.ca/books?id=-_NbE5obqRMC&pg=PA71 71]" ....so that even if people cannot see the Pringle-page, they can always see his Strehlke and Röhricht-sources, as there is no copy-right on them.

How can I do references like this in VE? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:35, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

:You only want to add sources like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Whatamidoing_(WMF)/sandbox&diff=668729209&oldid=667797660 this]? It's not too complicated: "Cite" button, "Manual" tab, "Basic form", and type it like you would type it out in the article itself. As with all links, the easiest thing to do is to type the label first (e.g., the "71" for the page number) and then select that and add the link to it. [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|talk]]) 07:20, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
::*{{ping|Whatamidoing (WMF)}} Thank you for that; I actually just did my first VE edit, ever, over at [[Aboud]]. A very simple edit: instead of linking to the whole of the 1922-census, I linked just to the page. Ok, I could do it, but is was a heck of a lot more cumbersome than doing it without the VE. (I´m not sure what you mean with "label" in the above, I normally use "label" for things like <nowiki><ref name=Label1/></nowiki>)
::*In short: the type of links that I typically add, will ''always'' be complicated. The problem (for me) about the VE is that it just adds a level of obfuscation to the editing; an unnecessary level for me,
::*And I remain quite unconvinced that what is "muddying the waters" for me, will be easy and transparent for a newbie, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 07:47, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I seem to be speaking technical jargon today. "Label" is the part of the link that's visible to the user – the "foo" part in <nowiki>[[bar|foo]]</nowiki>. VisualEditor's system for creating links works like what people usually do in word processing documents and e-mail programs. For example, if you're sending a message at gmail.com, and you want it to say "foo" but take the person to http://example.com, then you first type "foo", and then highlight it, open the link tool, and type the URL into the blank. The wikitext system of typing the URL/target first and "foo" second is unusual. (This is probably why RecentChanges patrollers sometimes see newbies getting it backwards, i.e., typing <nowiki>[[bar|foo]] when they wanted [[foo|bar]]</nowiki>.) [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|talk]]) 19:43, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
::::Oh, and there is actually an unofficial workaround for adding wikitext to citations. You can see the steps at [[Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive 2015 2#Cannot use pre-formatted citations from NLA Trove]]. It's not elegant, but it does work. [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|talk]]) 19:47, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
:::::Ok, thanks, {{ping|Whatamidoing (WMF)}} for the explanation. But the fact remains: the VE, even if it "can handle" the type of references I´m adding, still just makes editing more cumbersome for me.
:::::Now, what would really have helped me, would be a nice little tool which distinguished between what is in the text, and what is in the ref. Take a look at the "raw" text of [[Mi'ilya]] again: having what is inside the <nowiki><ref> </ref></nowiki> in, say, another another colour, would ease the editing greatly. Why don´t you implement a tool like that? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:33, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
::::::Probably because it already exists: just turn on [[User:Cacycle/wikEd]] in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|your prefs]] (gadgets, middle of the screen under ==Editing==). I tried it a few years ago, and eventually turned if off. It felt slow, and I didn't want to figure out how to get syntax highlighting without any of the other features. The WMF's Editing group is looking at some needed upgrades to the wikitext editor, and this will be one of the things that gets considered – but that's likely to be a couple of years from now.
::::::I agree that VisualEditor isn't the best choice in every instance. It's less convenient for some tasks (e.g., adding the same parameter to an infobox in hundreds of articles). There's also a bit of a learning curve for some things, and I can easily imagine an occasional editor not wanting to learn how to use 'the new thing'. But I also consistently hear that straight copyediting is easier when you don't have to look at the wikitext markup, and tables are easier (even for someone like me, and I frequently type out the code for a table from memory on pages VisualEditor isn't available). I want people to have the choice, and to use whichever one they want, whenever they want. I use both myself. [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|talk]]) 22:56, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Eeeeeeech: I switched the wikEd on, and got just about the most unattractive editing page I have ever seen in my life. With half a zillion gadgets I never asked for. Puh: now off. That wikiEd was *way* overdone. You know, there was this old cartoon, starting with what a 5 year old (=customer) wanted, then ending up which what the engineering department came down with, and what the lawyers specified.... The 5-year old (=me!!) wants a simple boat to play with in the pond. The engineering department and lawyers came down with a 15 trillion hangar ship. That was wikiEd. I´m familiar with the "nice to have" concept, it is just that in our time and age that becomes "too much to have".
:::::::As for VE: it comes down to what I started with. In the area I edit, references are the key issue. Copyediting and tables are "icing on the cake", and generally, we are not there yet. (On minor numbers of articles: yes) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:43, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
::::::::"Too much" was my reaction to WikEd as well. I really wanted just syntax highlighting, and not necessarily a lot of that. In happier news, I have confirmed that syntax highlighting is on the list for future work on the wikitext editor. Perhaps if you and I write the tasks up for [[Phabricator:]], then we'll get what ''we'' want. ;-) [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|talk]]) 02:32, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::[[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)]], well, I´m afraid that link was a bit daunting, [[Phabricator]] was a bit more understandable.
:::::::::Back in 2009 I had a great problem, in that a user started the articles on all the villages here: [[Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]]. That made it impossible to see which articles were developed, and which not. -John Vandenberg fixed it by [[Template_talk:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus#Blofeld_stubs|this magic]]. Now, due to [[User:Huldra/monobook.css]], I see all the stub-articles on that template as red-linked: a great, great help navigating around. I was hoping for a fix, something like that. (With the monobook.css, I can choose whatever colour I want: for text vs references I would probably try with some grey for the references, vs white for article text. Please give me a call if something like that is ever implemented! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:52, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

==Qasim al-Ahmad, Beit Wazan has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{DYKM
| box3
| text = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Qasim al-Ahmad]], [[Beit Wazan]], an article you either created or significantly contributed to,<!--
-->&nbsp;has been nominated&nbsp; to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Qasim al-Ahmad, Beit Wazan|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 15:27, 28 June 2015 (UTC)}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

==DYK for Qasim al-Ahmad==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#10 July 2015|10 July 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Qasim al-Ahmad]]''''', which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that '''[[Qasim al-Ahmad]]''', from the fortified village of '''[[Beit Wazan]]''', led the 1834 [[Peasants' Revolt of 1834 (Palestine)|Peasants' Revolt]] in [[Palestine]] against [[Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Qasim al-Ahmad|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Qasim al-Ahmad]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Qasim al-Ahmad|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Qasim al-Ahmad]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Qasim_al-Ahmad&datefrom=2015-07-01&dateto=2015-07-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201507/Qasim_al-Ahmad daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom --> [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 11:02, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

==DYK for Beit Wazan==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#10 July 2015|10 July 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Beit Wazan]]''''', which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that '''[[Qasim al-Ahmad]]''', from the fortified village of '''[[Beit Wazan]]''', led the 1834 [[Peasants' Revolt of 1834 (Palestine)|Peasants' Revolt]] in [[Palestine]] against [[Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Beit Wazan|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Beit Wazan]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Beit Wazan|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Beit Wazan]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Beit_Wazan&datefrom=2015-07-01&dateto=2015-07-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201507/Beit_Wazan daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom --> [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 11:03, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

== Aqil Agha ==

Hi Huldra. As you know, I've been working on the Aqil Agha [[User:Tiamut/Aga|draft page]] lately. I was wondering if you would like to move it to mainspace soon. It's under {{ping|Tiamut}}'s user page, but because she's been inactive as of late, I thought I'd ask you since you had been editing the page with her from the start. The sourcing needs to be finished i.e. the citations need to be fully referenced in the Bibliography, and there are some minor issues (which I will bring up at the draft's talkpage later) that need to be addressed, but other than that, it appears ready for mainspace. We could nominate it for DYK and work on bringing it to GA status in the near future along with [[Daher el-Omar]]. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 22:54, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Al Ameer son}} heh, Tiamut copied that first draft from [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AHuldra%2FSources&type=revision&diff=350184976&oldid=350116290 from User:Huldra/Sources] back in 2010; and I think I speak for both of us when I say we would both be delighted if it *finally* moved into article-space. It is way, way, overdue. But as you note: some refs are are missing in the biblio, I note:
*Abujaber
*Manna, ed. Mattar, p
*Mattar, p. 347
....for a start.

It is way, way above the average DYK, IMO, but not quite there when it it comes to GA, yet, (Daher el-Omar is obviously closer), cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:43, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:Great to hear. I say we move it tomorrow or the day after. I plan on nominating Daher el-Omar soon. There's some more material I want to add first, we also need to address the naming issue (I'm just waiting a couple days for other users' opinions, if any) and it would be nice to have a map showing the extent of his rule (which I recently requested from the Graphics Lab). --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 03:23, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

==Aqil Agha has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{DYKM
| box3
| text = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Aqil Agha]], an article you either created or significantly contributed to,<!--
-->&nbsp;has been nominated&nbsp; to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Aqil Agha|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 12:22, 16 July 2015 (UTC)}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

== 188.31.7.154's talk page ==
[[Image:Hausente.jpg|thumb|right|quack, quack!]]
Hi, I noticed that you recently reverted the IP's edit(s) on thei talk page. Per [[WP:REMOVED]], {{tq|"Policy does not prohibit users, whether registered or unregistered users, from removing comments from their own talk pages, although archiving is preferred. The removal of material from a user page is normally taken to mean that the user has read and is aware of its contents. There is no need to keep them on display and usually users should not be forced to do so."}}. Per [[WP:OWNTALK]], {{tq|"Although archiving is preferred, users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages. Users may also remove some conten"}}. There was no reason to edit war for restoring the warnings when the IP didn't want to keep them. Please keep this in mind next time. 18:31, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Callmemirela]], hi, I have given my reasons [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Smalljim#Unacceptable_behaviour here], cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 18:35, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

== [[al-Ghariyah al-Gharbiyah]] ==

Hey Huldra. Does the aforementioned village correspond with ''Gariyya al-Kubra'' in Nahia Butayna? If it does, could you add the 1596 info on the village to the article? --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 04:11, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

: No, Gariyya al-Kubra is given as Levant grid 304/200, which is about 32°23′N, not the 32°44′N listed for al-Ghariyah al-Gharbiyah. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 06:03, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
: {{ping|Al Ameer son}} But something is wrong. The coordinates given at [[al-Ghariyah al-Gharbiyah]], 32°44′N 36°12′E, are actually the coordinates of [[Khirbet Ghazaleh]], which is what old and new maps show at that place. Al-Ghariyah al-Gharbiyah must be somewhere else. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:06, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Zero0000}} I corrected the coords at [[al-Ghariyah al-Gharbiyah]]. The coords for Gariyya al-Kubra appear to place it in Jordan. What about Gariyya as-Suqra 7+ (265/233)? --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 18:47, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
:::[[User:Al Ameer son]]: Gariyya al-Kubra is so far east that it is still in Syria. Have not figured out which place, yet, though. But Gariyya as-Suqra 7+ (265/233) is definitely either [[Al-Ghariyah al-Gharbiyah]] or nearby [[Al-Ghariyah al-Sharqiyah]]: I`m not 100% certain; but my bet is on [[Al-Ghariyah al-Gharbiyah]]: looks closer to 265. Check with Zero. And lots of those Syrian places are in dire need of cleaning up: will try to do some, starting with Robinson and Smith. Also please check [[Maaraba]]: linked from [[Daraa Governorate]], but is in the Al-Tall-district? Are there two places with the same name? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Zero0000}} What do you think?
:::::{{ping|Al Ameer son}} al-Ghariyah al-Gharbiyah is at 265/233 and al-Ghariyah al-Sharqiyah is at 268/232 (Palestine grid in both cases). [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 00:44, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::Thanks. So it appears that Gariyya al-Suqra is Ghariya al-Gharbiya. Could one of you add the 1596 info to it? --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 01:33, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::[[User:Al Ameer son]]: Done, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:34, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
::::To Huldra: I'm gonna try to work a little on the Hauran villages of Syria here and there. The Maaraba of Rif Dimashq is separate from the Maaraba of Daraa. I'll make the adjustment to the template. Thanks for adding some of the Robinson info. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 00:43, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:::Apropos topological doubling: we have a [[Al-Qaryatayn|Qaryatayn]] in Syria, but no, as far as I can see, [[Qaryatayn]] for the Palestinian village, 5 miles south of [[Susiya]], razed in 1948, and from whose refugees some of the present-day Susiyans descend.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 07:53, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
::::[[User:Nishidani]]: Interesting; from what I can see, that [[Qaryatayn]] is inside the -48 borders of Israel; it should have been in the [[Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]], Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:25, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
::::: I see ''Kh. al Qaryatein'' at 161/084 but I don't see anything on it in the 1948 period. Called Tel Qeriyyot in Hebrew. Tsafrir, Dauphin, etc. SWP: Kh. el Kureitein. Guerin Jud. III, 180. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 00:51, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
:::The oral story is that they were told to fuck off, and walked back into the designated Palestinian area. Since they practiced transhumance from Arad (and apparently it now seems had Ottoman title also to 700 odd acres in the Susiya area) one can't quite pin them to fixed settlement, which is an alien concept. Thanks chaps. If after August 5, one can obtain Meiri's mapping of those 700 acres of Susiya Palestinian land, it will make the split in that article, which appears to have gone ahead without discussion, somewhat difficult.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 06:14, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
::::

== Did you drop me a cautionary note on the 20th? ==

cautionary note on the 20th? [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 16:57, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]]: Yeah, I did. It is about the [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat/Archives/2015-07#Please_protect_my_user-page same old, same old]. There are Stewards on meta who apparently are very familiar with the issue, though; my user-page is now protected, there, too. ([https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User+talk%3ANishidani Hmrpph]: all this waste of time.....) Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 19:25, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

== Would you email me please? ==

Hi Huldra,

I wonder if you would be kind enough to send me an email at philippe@wikimedia.org? I have something I'd like to update you on. Thanks, [[User:Philippe (WMF)|Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation]] ([[User talk:Philippe (WMF)|talk]]) 09:22, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

:{{ping|Philippe (WMF)}} Hi, I have emailed you, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 10:55, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
::Thank you. I have replied. [[User:Philippe (WMF)|Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation]] ([[User talk:Philippe (WMF)|talk]]) 11:11, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

== 1596 stats ==

Hey Huldra, whenever you have time could you add the 1596 info for [[Maaraba]] (I think it could be p67 Maraba 7+ (224/241)), [[Jamla]] (mz22 Jamla 7+ (229/245)) and [[al-Shajara, Syria]] (either p65 Sajara 7+ (232/242) or mz13 Sajara (238/227)). --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 01:51, 1 August 2015 (UTC)


:Maraba 7+ (224/241) is around 32°46′N 35°47′E, as you can check from the Kafer el Ma-map, [http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/cdview/?pi=nla.map-vn745520-s21k here], in other words: not [[Maaraba,_Daraa]].

:However, Jamla 7+ (229/245) pretty much agrees with [[Jamla]] 35°51E 32°48N; which would match nicely with Sajara 7+ (232/242) for [[al-Shajara, Syria]] 35°52′ E 32°46′N. I´ll add the data for [[Jamla]] and [[al-Shajara, Syria]] later today, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 10:21, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
::Done, please don´t hesitate to suggest more; or suggest it on [[User:Huldra/HA]], cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:55, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
:::Thank you, and don't worry, I'll keep them coming ;) --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 21:11, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
::::[[Maaraba]], which redirect into [[Maaraba, Rif Dimashq]] is far too north to be in HA, but [[Maaraba, Daraa]] is 284/217 on 22M-Bosra-map = on [[User:Huldra/HA#p.219]]. Will add it later today, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 02:58, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
*[[Kafr Nasij]] - mz61 Kafr Nasij 7+ (247/284) --> map 19l, cannot find at the moment
*[[Al-Hirak, Syria]] - mz51 Harak as-Sarqi 7+ (273/239) or mz46 al-Harak al-Garbi 7+ (271/239)
*[[Maliha al-Atash]] - mz47 Malihat az-Zaytun 7+ (278/241) --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 23:16, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
**[[Kafr Nasij]] is mz61 Kafr Nasij 7+ (247/284) --> map 19l, [http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/cdview/?pi=nla.map-vn745520-s19lc-v Sanameine]: will add later today
**[[Al-Hirak, Syria]] is mz51 Harak as-Sarqi 7+ (273/239) on -->Karak-map, 21m, though al-Harak al-Garbi 7+ (271/239) is so close, it could possibly be included (It is called "Deir es Salt": deserted in 1838): will add later today
**<s>[[Maliha al-Atash]] is possibly - mz47 Malihat az-Zaytun 7+ (278/241); named Maliha esh Charqiye on Karak-map, 21m; but if so: the co-ords in [[Maliha al-Atash]] are wrong; as those co-ords are too far north. Could you please check them? Will add the [[Al-Hirak, Syria]] -info tomorrow, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:46, 2 August 2015 (UTC)</s>
**[[Maliha al-Atash]] is in the correct position (according to google-earth) and it is definitely not mz47 Malihat az-Zaytun 7+ (278/241). In fact it is not old at all; not there on the 1952 -maps. (The Kerak-Map). The Burckhardt and Robinson-sources in the article must be about another "Maliha": I will remove them,
**mz47 Malihat az-Zaytun 7+ (278/241) is [[Al-Maliha al-Sharqiyah]] in the Izra District: not made yet, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 08:08, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
***[[Ataman, Syria|Ataman]] - mz24 Atman 7+ (254/230) --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 00:41, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
****Done, thanks for starting it. Another interesting place is [[Aqraba, Syria]], in [[Al-Sanamayn District]], Deraa, It is mentioned in [[Yaqut al-Hamawi]] (le Strange), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:45, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
*****I'll start on it tomorrow. Thanks for the le Strange tip. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 03:27, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

== [[:File:معبد_الإله_تيكة.jpg]] at Commons ==

I'm sorry but I had to decline your undeletion request over there. It looks like the image at the Arabic WP was not uploaded by the original photographer either. Please see the section at [[:commons:Commons:Undeletion requests|Commons:Undeletion requests]] for more details. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 23:26, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
:Ok, thanks. Your detailed explanation is appreciated, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:31, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

== Striking out of Settleman's comments at AfD ==

While I understand your concern about socking with the recent case of ISavedPvtRyan and history of socking in this area, I am not sure it is a good idea to cross out their comments without an SPI case determining them to be a sock. [[User:Kingsindian|Kingsindian]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Kingsindian|&#9821;]][[Special:Contributions/Kingsindian|&#9818;]] 17:33, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
*[[User:Kingsindian]]: Sure, even if it was obvious from the beginning, I would never strike out ISavedPvtRyan`s comments without a SPI-case. Thank you for reporting him at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Wlglunight93]], Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
*[[User:Kingsindian]]: ooopsh, sorry: yeah, my mistake: I mixed up ISavedPvtRyan and Settleman: sorry! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:54, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

==DYK for Aqil Agha==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#8 August 2015|8 August 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Aqil Agha]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Aqil Agha]]''' ''(pictured)'', the leader of [[Bedouin]] irregulars in [[Galilee]], was rewarded by [[Napoleon III]] and [[Edward VII]] for protecting the Christians of [[Nazareth]] in [[1860 Druze–Maronite conflict|1860]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Aqil Agha|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Aqil Agha]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Aqil Agha|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Aqil Agha]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Aqil_Agha&datefrom=2015-08-01&dateto=2015-08-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201508/Aqil_Agha daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 17:11, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

== Sock ==

[[user:Emanquresu]] is probably a sock of Settleman... ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jerusalem_gay_pride_parade&diff=prev&oldid=674510052]) [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 07:32, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Pluto2012]]: Early days, but I don´t see the need for that extra account... we will see, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 08:36, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

== Shihab al-Din tomb ==

Hi Huldra. I'm trying to clarify some things about the so-called Shihab al-Din tomb in Nazareth. The sources are conflicting, with some saying the tomb is the burial place of Shihab al-Din (a nephew of Saladin), some imply that this is a local belief, some say it was that of a Muslim/Sufi sage. I came across a snippet of Andrew Petersen's ''Gazeteer'' on page 241 and it says something about a "Maqam Shihab al-Din al-Qarafi". Do you have that book? If so, could you help me sort this out? I want to start an article to clear the matter up as part of a general improvement of Wikipedia's info on Nazareth. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 03:57, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi,
Petersen, p. 241 does not say who the Maqam is for, he just describes it. Here is the complete description, on that page:

''Maqam Shihab al-Din al-Qarafi (Fig. 90, Plates 254-255) This is located approximately 200m south of the Church of the Annunciation. The shrine stands in a small lane opposite Khan al-Pasha''.

''The floor level in the shrine is approximately 2m below that of the lane and is reached by a flight of stairs. The building consists of two parts, an old part covered by a dome, and a newer concrete part. The new part has a triangular plan and is joined on to the north side of the original structure. The older part has a rectangular plan consisting of a square area covered by a dome and a shallow [[iwan]] to the east. The dome rests on pendentives springing from large corner piers. There is a small doorway in the western wall providing access to the ablutions area. In the middle of the south wall is a modern flat wooden [[mihrab]]. The tomb of Shihab al-Din is located in the southern part of the iwan. It is likely that the eastern side of the iwan was originally open although it is now filled with a modern window.''

Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 11:00, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:Thanks for info, I'll start the page soon, after a little more research. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 21:28, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

== Maybe ==

You might be interested in [[:mw:User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter]]. I haven't tried it, but the screenshot looks nice. [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 20:50, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:WhatamIdoing]] thanks for the tip. I have installed it, my first impression is that 5 different colours is a bit much; but perhaps I will get used to it? Will try it for a while, anyway, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
::[[User:WhatamIdoing]]: yeah, 5 different colours were about 3-4 too many. The boat still isn´t small enough! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:01, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
:::It might be possible to do some CSS magic to make several go away. Do you want all syntax highlighted the same color, or only some things highlighted? [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 00:29, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
:::: [[User:WhatamIdoing]]: For me it would be great to just have everything inside a reference, including the "ref-tags" in one different colour, take a previous example:
:::: <nowiki>“In 1179 Viscountess Petronella of [[Acre, Israel|Acre]] sold the houses, vineyards and gardens of Mi'ilya to Count [[Jocelyn III]], uncle of [[Baldwin IV]],”<ref name=1179>Strehlke, 1869, pp. [http://archive.org/stream/tabulaeordinist00stregoog#page/n27/mode/1up 11]-12, No. 11; cited in Röhricht, 1893, RRH, p. [http://archive.org/stream/regestaregnihie00rhgoog#page/n162/mode/1up 156], No. 587; cited in Pringle, 1997, p. [http://books.google.ca/books?id=-_NbE5obqRMC&pg=PA71 71]</ref> </nowiki>
::::..so that I would see everything from (and including) "<nowiki><ref name=1179>" to "</ref>"</nowiki> in one different colour. I don´t really need to have templates, or wikilinks, or any other syntax highlighted. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:33, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

== [[User:Al Ameer son/Shihab Din]] ==

[https://books.google.com/books?id=NRB6NnYW7_IC&pg=PT140&dq=Shihab+al-Din+Nazareth&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBGoVChMIhoXTvIiixwIViqYeCh2E_QKH#v=onepage&q=Shihab&f=false This] is hilarious. I knew Crosby, Stills and Nash were all over the place, but that's a bit far out of left field for them, I would think. Valuable lesson, maybe, about taking Google Book hits to the bank... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 23:49, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:Drmies]] Lol, yeah; I had to look several times before I understood what you were talking about. Btw, back in the day I met similar mess-up at the [[User:Huldra/Sources#Moshe_Sharon_CIAP-books.2C_links:|Moshe Sharon]] -books, but google seems to have cleaned it up by now, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
::Interesting subject matter, by the way. Has ArbCom written all over it, haha. I looked at a few of the books. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 23:58, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
::: [[User:Drmies]]: yeah, it is an *extremely* sensitive issue, to put it mildly, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
::::Good luck to you and the other editor in writing it up. Let me know if trouble finds you again. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 00:10, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
::::: [[User:Drmies]]: thanks, and if you are alluding to my young Californian "fan", then this page has been wonderfully quiet since I got it semi-protected back in December: I really should have gotten that done earlier! There are some copy-cats out there, though; including a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/121.220.80.175 Telstra Internet IP from Australia] (check that deleted edit). Hmm, I think I will [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:121.220.80.175&oldid=675169592 refrain from welcoming any Telstra IP´s] in the future... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:11, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::I apologize on behalf of humanity. We're slime, aren't we. Well, I have a fan too, and they have a number of pages on their website devoted to me; apparently I'm a cunt of all types. Please do let me know if I can help, and {{U|Malik Shabazz}}, thanks. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 21:03, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
::::::Nah, not *all* are slime... ;P ....and Malik Shabazz got a new (& well deserved) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Malik_Shabazz/Awards "shiny thing"]. If I could advice anything, it would be to permanently protect talk-pages much, much sooner than is normally done today. Look at the logs for this site, and see all the puke that admins have had to mop up over the years: such a waste of time. Oh, and also: please be aware of Telstra Internet IPs from Australia, typically on [[Template:Palestinians]], [[Palestinian territories]] etc: removing East Jerusalem, or placing places on the West Bank "in Israel". They have done it uncountable times, under I don´t know how many IPs. They always get reverted, but still continues.....There really are some ''really'' strange people out there...... (But then I guess they would consider me ''really'' strange, too: adding boring little things like tax-records or census-numbers to countless articles on villages, etc...:) ) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:31, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

== Question regarding phrasing ==

I think you meant "threatened" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Malik_Shabazz&diff=677062791&oldid=677021768 here], right? And, just for the record, I don't think a permablock is necessarily enough in instances like that, I would love to see real legal action be considered, if possible. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 22:01, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:John Carter]]: oopsh, sorry, yes; -fixed it now. (As you might have guessed: I am not a native English speaker: please don´t hesitate to point out my mistakes, or correct them).
:And I would *love* to see the WMF take legal action...I have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Philippe_(WMF)#WMF_and_harassment hammering them] so they would do something; so far I have not seen much of an effect. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:09, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

== ''Palestine-Israel articles 3'' arbitration case opened ==

''You may opt-out of future notification regarding this case at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Notification list]].'' You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3]]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Evidence]]. '''Please add your evidence by September 8, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes.''' You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Workshop]]. For a guide to the arbitration process, see [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration]]. For the Arbitration Committee, [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 15:43, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:L235@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_3/Notification_list&oldid=677796362 -->

== Grossman ==

I have added a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Susya&diff=677998174&oldid=677995314 long quote in Grossman source] on Susya. It can probably be used for other villages but I couldn't Identify most of them b/c of the names. Please take a look. [[User:Settleman|Settleman]] ([[User talk:Settleman|talk]]) 21:14, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
: I´ll try in a day ....or three. One problem is that a lot of those places in the [[Template:Hebron Governorate]] are still red-linked. (It was a huge problem in trying to map [[User:Huldra/Guerin]]) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:24, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

== 10 Y ==

Should you be compared to Katrina ? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rus-7Rym648]. :-) [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 20:10, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
: LOL! ..and I, who had hoped for cup-cakes, balloons and fire-works... (nothing wrong with lipstick on a pig....?) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:13, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

== Can you please explain... ==

when an attrubution or a name should be followed with a short description? On Susya someone added to Regavim 'settler activist organization' though it is a link and also say 'an NGO which petitioned the Supreme Court to execute the demolition orders at Khirbet susya'. Yet, David Shulman is bias is clear cannot be accompanied with such description. [[User:Settleman|Settleman]] ([[User talk:Settleman|talk]]) 05:58, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
::Why is David Shulman's bias clear? Have you read him? It makes painful reading. He is far more restrained than what, were activists writing what he witnesses every week, others would say about the criminal violence of '''certain groups of settlers''' in the South Hebron Hills. There are numerous bullies and thugs among them. I grew up among bullies and thugs, and I never thought to defend them because they share my ethnic background, and neither does Shulman, a Jew who performed aliyah, is deeply attached to Israel and wants it to be a democracy. Calling a spade a spade is not bias. Regavim is using every means within its grasp to seize land, and evict its traditional societies, from the land, out of an ideological conviction that 'it is all ours'. Shulman is defending civil rights in the great tradition of American Jews without whom segregation would have persisted, and many civil rights we are now proud of would never have been established. If you cannot understand how important the reformist civil rights tradition is within the other Zion, the United States, is for Jews, old and young, then you will never understand why much of the battle for Palestinian rights is driven by the tradition of Jewish secular idealism, not by some blind ethnonationalist obsession with real estate at whatever cost to those whom it with relentless pitilessness uproots and expels. Settlements are incompatible with Israel as a democracy. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 17:24, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
:::[[User:Settleman]]: Two things: Firstly: I have learned -after editing here for a few years- to try to keep a conflict "contained", and not spreading it all over Wikipedia.
:::Secondly: I will admit I do not know the works of [[David Dean Shulman]] very well, (I have not read any of his books), but from what I can see he is first and foremost know as a scholar. If his [[Ta'ayush]]-activism was the only thing he was known for, then I doubt he would even have his own Wikipedia-bio. I therefore think it was totally uncalled for, what you did; going to a lot of articles, "labelling" him *only* as a [[Ta'ayush]]-activist. (But you might have noted that on, say [[Bil'in]]; I did *not* bring back "Israeli academic and pacifist", just left the link to his page.) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:47, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
::::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ma%27on,_Har_Hebron&diff=prev&oldid=678804514 Here] for example, Shulman is the source for derogatory term 'fanatics'. I see [[WP:LABEL]] say these term should be used with care. Maybe it is OK to be left in because it is sourced but still, letting the reader know the author isn't exactly main stream opinion but rather of an activist of far-left organization, is important. I hope to get to library tomorrow. [[User:Settleman|Settleman]] ([[User talk:Settleman|talk]]) 22:31, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Settleman]]: Well, from what I can read from that article (not that I trust Wikipedia, much!) "fanatics" seem like quite a mild term for the settlers of [[Ma'on, Har Hebron]]...attacking people with clubs?! Seriously. Nishidani´s expression "bullies and thugs" seems to fit better.
:::::Looking forward to any Vilnai-info, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:42, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::Btw, [[WP:LABEL]] also say: "are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use in-text attribution". From my understanding of [[WP:LABEL]]: if Nishidani or myself had called the settlers of [[Ma'on, Har Hebron]] for 'fanatics' (based on their action) or even "bullies and thugs", then obviously, that would be cover by [[WP:LABEL]], and should ''not'' be permitted. But here is case where it is used with "in-text attribution" [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:45, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
::::::Isn't it nice to look at one side of the coin? Just a reminder, that year (2001) Yair Har-Sinai was murdered not far from there. The are extremists on both sides and bringing [[WP:LIBEL]] from an activist is silly. According to [[WP:BIASED]] this is required. [[User:Settleman|Settleman]] ([[User talk:Settleman|talk]]) 17:59, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

== Thank you for 10 wonderful years ==

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:Resilient Barnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Resilient Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | This is in thanks to you for the 10 years you have spent helping to keep things here useful for the readers and, as far as possible, easier for the other editors to function in. And for your having served those ten years while having to endure things that few of us have been subjected to. And for spending a lot of that time in the minefield of the Israel-Palestine field. A lot of us have quit either the project or a topic area for far worse reasons, and it is very welcome to see someone show the courage to stand up even under the extreme provocation you have endured. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 15:49, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
|}
:[[User:John Carter]]: Whaw! Very nice birthday-present, thanks! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:45, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Congratulations on your wikidecade! Here's a big thank you from one editor who greatly appreciates your work, and should have acknowledged that many more times in the past. [[User:Oncenawhile|Oncenawhile]] ([[User talk:Oncenawhile|talk]]) 22:56, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
|}
:[[User:Oncenawhile]] Oh, la, la: thanks! Greatly appreciated! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:59, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

For diligent addition of excellent new material, and for always trying to get the facts right, you are unbeatable! Congratulations, and welcome to the veterans club! [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 23:48, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:Zero0000]] Thanks! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:54, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

== Australia IP ==

The IP is back reverting me again and unfortunately I will only be on mobile for a few hours. I thought I should let you know. [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish'']] [[User talk:Rubbish computer|''computer'']] 15:15, 3 September 2015 (UTC) [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish'']] [[User talk:Rubbish computer|''computer'']] 15:15, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Rubbish computer]]: Sigh, yeah, so far today I´ve noted:
*{{vandal|120.144.129.172}}
*{{vandal|120.144.134.25}}
*{{vandal|121.214.15.161}}@@
*{{vandal|124.180.155.128}}
::I *do* wish they would find another hobby! Btw: thank you for your help! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:24, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
They're all blocked at the moment, but I don't understand why these IPs keep getting ''temporarily'' blocked when they do ''nothing'' but vandalism, trolling and harrassment. Anyway, I'm back on my computer now.--[[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish'']] [[User talk:Rubbish computer|''computer'']] 21:47, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Rubbish computer]]: I assume it is because they are dynamic IPs, that is, each time they turn their computer, or server on/off, they will get a new IP. So there is no need to block them for more than a day or three: the person behind this has moved on to a new IP by then, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:52, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Huldra}} Okay. [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish'']] [[User talk:Rubbish computer|''computer'']] 21:52, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

== Invitation to join the Ten Year Society ==
[[File:Ten Year Society.svg|left|125px|link=Wikipedia:Ten Year Society]] Dear {{PAGENAME}},

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the '''[[Wikipedia:Ten Year Society|Ten Year Society]]''', an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for ten years or more.

Best regards, [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 21:00, 3 September 2015 (UTC) <!-- Template:Ten Year Society invitation -->
{{clear}}


I actually just saw someone else get this invitation, and even though I ain't a member myself, I think anyone can at least advise potential members of their qualification. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 21:00, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:John Carter]]: Heh; apparently I added myself to that exclusive group with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AHuldra&type=revision&diff=678815194&oldid=664182321 this] edit..... Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:06, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

== Template color ==

You have mail! [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 10:02, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

== Please revert ==

The census of 45 is mentioned by Regavim so we have a source who makes the claim. (It was also 1RR). [[User:Settleman|Settleman]] ([[User talk:Settleman|talk]]) 17:17, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

== Shatta ==

Hi, [[Beit HaShita]] was formed in the 1930s on the lands of the Arab village of Shatta (SWP:Shutta, 190/217) after it was purchased from the absentee owner and the residents evicted. After that, Arab Shatta ceased to be, though the name Shatta continued in use for a while. On the other hand, a lot of the usual sources refer to it. Would you recommend a separate article, or should it be an expansion of [[Beit HaShita]]? Refs: Not in Hutteroth, Guerin Sam I 301-303, Dauphin 776, census1922 Baisan list, Robinson1852 339, SWP II 126. There's lots of stuff on the 1930s purchase and court case (Huneidi, Kark, Stein, etc). [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 03:35, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

*Very* interesting case.

*..Probably, by [[Afula]], [[Merhavia (kibbutz)]], [[Kiryat Ata]], [[Bethlehem of Galilee]], [[Alonei Abba]]: Same geographical place: same article. I have Dauphin 776; Robinson,1856, p. [http://archive.org/stream/laterbiblicalre01smitgoog#page/n388/mode/1up 339]; Guerin, (visited in 1870,) pp. [http://archive.org/stream/descriptionsam01gu#page/301/mode/1up 301]-2; SWP II pp. [http://www.archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp02conduoft#page/86/mode/1up 86] and [http://www.archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp02conduoft#page/126/mode/1up 126]; census1922 Baisan list, I´ll gladly add these, but I have no access to the 1930s purchase and court case ..: I´´ll leave that to you. Ok? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:01, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

== Telstra vandal ==

Good luck with whatever you need to do about this. You're a strong person and a great editor. [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish'']] [[User talk:Rubbish computer|''computer'']] 21:55, 12 September 2015 (UTC) [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish'']] [[User talk:Rubbish computer|''computer'']] 21:55, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
:{{u|Rubbish computer}} Thanks, for the kind words. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:15, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
::You're welcome. --[[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish'']] [[User talk:Rubbish computer|''computer'']] 22:26, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

*What does the vandal ''want'' anyway? The approach that comes to my mind is simply to figure out what he wants, then get together a bunch of people to deny it to him. [[User:Wnt|Wnt]] ([[User talk:Wnt|talk]]) 18:59, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
::[[User:Wnt]]: That is really not to difficult to see; it is one of those 13 to the dozen editors who is allergic to the word "Palestine"; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Duma_arson_attack&type=revision&diff=675273947&oldid=675273501 here], changing everything into "Israel". He acts very much like [[Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/JarlaxleArtemis|my old friend]]: and rest assured: they are always reverted. But these are not, how can I put it? Eh, not very rational people. They go totally ballistic, like a 3 year old, when they are denied. And then comes the rape and death threats.......This has been going on for 5 years. You have no idea as to how thick a skin I have developed; the problem is: we are simply not getting new editors in this area of Wikipedia: they get scared out of their minds. This really has to stop. My thought was that if we range-blocked Telstra: that would "wake them up", to address the problem. I suspect that such a range-block would not last long (I´m hoping Australian Wikipedians will take their rage out on Telstra, not on me!) (And no: I don´t want the guy in jail; IMHO; he needs a doctor, or a shrink more than he needs a jailer.) Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:11, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
:::I am tempted to troll the troll by suggesting a move from [[Duma, Nablus]] to [[Duma, Palestine]]. It seems very wrong to me that this link has to be redirected in the first place. Honestly, I'd even prefer [[Duma, Israel]] though, simply because "Duma, Nablus" is the one article title we could have that you have to click on the link (or change it) to figure out where in the world it is. I looked up [[United Nations General Assembly observers]] and it's sort of a wash: Vatican City needs no specification; going to less related examples, [[Toi, Niue]] follows the convention, but [[Lugu, Nantou]] and cogeners use that awful county specification. Do you think I'd have a chance, or is this already settled somewhere? :) [[User:Wnt|Wnt]] ([[User talk:Wnt|talk]]) 22:06, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
::::[[User:Wnt]] Please don´t. The problem is that loads of these places have more or less similar names.... (they typically come from the same Arabic word): [[Taybeh (disambiguation)]] (=The goodly), [[Rumman]] (=pomegranate), [[Haditha (disambiguation)]] (=The New One), [[Tira]]. (Btw, each and every scholar on Middle East history have mixed up one or more of them....) The present naming structure has developed over years...hell will break lose if you unilaterally try to change it. As long as [[Duma, Palestine]] redirs to [[Duma, Nablus]]; I´m good. But using XX, Palestine, as main article is simply too generic.
::::Trolling the trolls isn´t really the answer, me thinks. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:21, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Diligence'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | In great appreciation of your long-standing work on Wikipedia, your painstaking attention to detail and diligent search for accuracy.
P.S. I give out very few barnstars, so anyone receiving one from me can be sure that she has earned it! [[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 08:32, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
|}
[[User:NSH001]]; coming from an editor I deeply respect: this is greatly appreciated! Thanks! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

== A cup of coffee for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Cup-o-coffee-simple.svg|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I'm really sorry to hear about the Telstra mess. You have my support, and I wish you the best and thank you for all of your hard work. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]<sup>[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|Hello!]]</sup> 00:46, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
|}

:[[User:GeneralizationsAreBad]]: Mmmm, thanks! Taste nice! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:11, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

==Your record of starting unnecessary AFDs==
*Huldra, you habitually bring articles in which Jews are killed by Palestinians to AFD, and you do so with little apparent regard to sourcing or impact. See, for example, [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The murder of Yehuda Shoham]]. If some other editor nominates an article in which Palestinian militants kill a Jew, you vote to delete and offer straw-man arguments, as here: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Death of Binyamin Meisner]]. A scan of your past AFD nominations shows that you even started this AFD: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Palestinian stone-throwing]]. If you have a strategy, rather than a mere animus, it seems to be to put articles that reflect badly on Palestinian militancy up for AFD - '''irrespective''' of how well-sourced or significant the topic is - and hope that they get deleted. What is clear is that your standard for starting an AFD is: [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]].[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 11:50, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
::Do you have any idea how many articles could be created for Palestinians killed by Israelis? We dont do that. The ones that are created have a lasting impact per [[WP:NOTNEWS]]. You habitually create articles on every incident you can find with the apparent purpose of creating a narrative of Palestinians are "hooligans" or "terrorists" irrespective of whether or not it is routine news or has a lasting impact. What is clear is your standard for creating an article is: Palestinians bad. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 15:40, 21 September 2015 (UTC)</small>
:::Nableezy, individuals who throw rocks at human beings are hooligans, and, in the Palestinian case, terrorists with the avowed aim of driving Jews into the sea. This, in my opinion, has echoes on Wikipedia where editors like Huldra attempt to drive pro-Israel editors away by harassment and hounding. Note that no editor is required to create articles on every aspect of anything. What editors are required to do is to maintain a NPOV and to use sources fairly and accurately - a thing that I strive to do. As for choice of topic, I create lots of article - on things that interest me. I am interested, for example, in theater, but have little taste for Metalcore or hardcore punk. I therefore do not create article on Metalcore bands. What I do not do is iVote to delete well-sourced articles about Metalcore, or regularly bring articles about new Metalcore bands to AFD. I view Huldra's behavior in regularly bringing well-sourced articles about incidents judged significant by governments and the international press core to AFD as a form of [[WP:WIKIHOUNDING]] wherein she creates a lot of work for editors whose politics she dislikes, makes editing an exceedingly wearisome and unpleasant experience for editors who oppose the throwing of rocks at people, and makes the entire Israel/Arab sphere so battleground-like and unpleasant that many editors quit and editors who work on AFDs in other areas are reluctant to weigh in on AFDs related to the middle east conflict. I think that her practice of doing so is so longstanding and so clear that it amounts ot a strategy, and I would like her to rethink her aggression and highly POV evaluations of new articles.19:23, 21 September 2015 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/E.M.Gregory|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
::::''with the avowed aim of driving Jews into the sea'' lollll. Yeah, a rock is gonna do that. Or maybe they are people using whatever weapon they have available against a country that has much more sophisticated weapons and a repeatedly shown aversion to not using said weapons against them while illegally stealing their land and occupying their territory and subjugating them all while playing the victim card to the world, aided by those who look at, for example, [http://www.btselem.org/statistics/fatalities/after-cast-lead/by-date-of-event the 34 Israelis killed by Palestinians since 2009 compared to the 641 Palestinians killed by Israelis in that same time] and determine that only those 34 deaths are "notable" and "acts of terrorism" commited by "terrorists" or "holligans" with an aim of "driving Jews into the sea". And as far as the horseshit about editors needing to be NPOV and that you apparently maintain such, need I remind you of your attempt to rename an article about an arson that has been covered across the world into an article about ''the curious case of multiple arson attacks on two brothers'' in a transparent attempt to whitewash what settlers routinely do to the property and on occasion lives of the native population? Or your comment that said article should be deleted because it was just "rumors"? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 20:29, 21 September 2015 (UTC)</small>
:::::For children killed in the conflict, there already is about 100 times more material for each Jewish victim, [http://wikipediocracy.com/2014/12/24/wikipedia-all-murdered-israeli-children-are-murdered-by-arabs/ compared to each Palestinian victim]. For adults too: the amount of space the average Jewish victims is given is ridiculously higher than the space given to the average Palestinian victim. Yes: I confess: a Palestinian life is just as much worth to me as a Jewish, (or American, or European) life, If that makes me strange: I pity you. (And rest assured: all your "''Only'' Jewish lives matter"-friends will turn up at that AfD. They always do.) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:24, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
::::::Apparently, 'the world' (or at least the media) sees a difference which is why the coverage is so different. All palestinians, AFAICR, who were murdered by Israeli citizens in recent years got a massive coverage and an article. [[Mohammed Abu Khdeir]], [[Duma arson attack]] or even the [[Beitunia killings]] where the [[Magav]]nick shot with no reason. The world doesn't care enough to write about a rioter being shot or a terrorist being taken out. So notability isn't a game of balance but actual coverage and interest of the public.
::::::In this particular case, the attack may result in making punishment more severe which may makes it even more notable. [[User:Settleman|Settleman]] ([[User talk:Settleman|talk]]) 06:56, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, do you want me to mention who control much of that media, and where their priorities/sympathies lie? And your "The world doesn't care enough to write about a rioter being shot or a terrorist being taken out," is most disingenuous; are children "a terrorist being taken out"? [http://rememberthesechildren.org/remember2000.html 1656 Palestinian children vs 131 Israeli children] killed, and the Israeli children killed get 10 times more coverage? Who do you think you are fooling? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:48, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::::And,btw, you could also have mentioned [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Killing of Yehoshua Weisbrod]] and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murder of Netanel Arami]], cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
*:::::::<s>Fascinating.</s> No, appalling. Particularly the sources that popped up when I searched on Yehoshua Weisbrod. I am stunned , simply stunned reading about the bloody-mindedness and sheer cruelty. Cannot imagine why an article on an murder as horrific and widely-covered as that was deleted. So many witnesses. So many news stories. Even a United Nations peacekeeper sitting right there and failing to save this man as he was mobbed and bashed to death with rocks. Maybe there should be an article on: Death by stoning after taking a wrong turn in Gaza. Do you know how I can access the Wikipedia article you deleted?[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 20:24, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
{{od}}
...and what the heck was he doing in Gaza? Note also the [[Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2014_December_2#Killing_of_Yehoshua_Weisbrod|Deletion review]]. As for "the world' (or at least the media) sees a difference", iow, news-coverage being biased, take a look at the English news in the region, and note how many times they are used on Wikipedia:
*[[Arutz Sheva]]: "Arutz Sheva": 643 israelnationalnews.com: 213
*[[Haaretz]]: 5,911 (Btw, even this Israeli newspaper, much criticised by the right for being to "Arab-friendly", note from the article: "A 2003 study in The International Journal of Press/Politics concluded that Haaretz‍ ' s reporting of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict was more favorable to Israelis than to Palestinians.")
*[[The Jerusalem Post]]: 3,108
*[[Yedioth Ahronoth]]: ynetnews: 1,537 ynet (Hebrew): 1,718
*[[Ma'an News Agency]]: maannews: 48
.....the only "pro-Palestinian" source here is Ma'an News, the other are Israeli. In short; to me it looks as if English sources used from the region are ''overwhelmingly'' pro-Israeli. (Ok, this was just based on the "search" function here, which is not very good, I know. Eg. [[List of violent incidents in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, July–December 2015]] use several maan-sources , but it does not show up in search: apparently if you don´t mark it as a maan-source, it will not show in "search". If you have a better way to search: I´m listening.) Btw, what do you think the chances for 10 year old Ahmed Moussa from [[Ni'lin]], shot and killed in 2008 by the Israeli military, having an article of his own....IF he had been Israeli/Jewish? I would think the chances would have been excellent. But now...? Oh, he is just "a rioter being shot or a terrorist being taken out", no-one to care about, eh? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:09, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

==Identifying a place name==
Hulda, I have a source that says that a person is from: Kafr Talouza (north of Nablus). Any idea what else it might be called / how else transliterated?[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 23:45, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:E.M.Gregory]] I would suspect they meant [[Talluza]], northeast of Nablus. The word " Kafr" is often added to any village name, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:50, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
*:Thanks. Do you suppose we could get the [[United Nations]] to work out an international convention on the transliteration of Arabic?[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 15:01, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
:::[[User:E.M.Gregory]]: Doubt it; though it would have been useful. I don´t know Arabic, but my impression is that those who do, seem to be generally against it. Btw, my nick is "Huldra", not "Hulda", and I *do* know what Hulda means in Hebrew, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:04, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
::::I was joking. But I am sorry about misspelling your name, I am amng thw world's worst seplers.[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 20:26, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::Lol, tht mst be after me.... ...one of the reasons I contribute to English Wikipedia, and not to the Wikipedia in my native tongue, is that we don´t have a good spell-checker in my native tongue. Seriously. So there my dyslexia is very clear....In English I´m better hiding it.... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:32, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

== DRN for Duma ==

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Duma_arson_attack.23Ya.27alon_on_Jewish_extremists Here]. [[User:Settleman|Settleman]] ([[User talk:Settleman|talk]]) 06:37, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

== WP:ANI ==

As per your request, I posted you at [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Huldra|WP:ANI]]. I am not sure, what will come of this. Depends if admins will see this as a behavioral issue, a content dispute or a WP:ARBPIA problem. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 17:39, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

==Prodding for discussion at[[Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Duma_arson_attack.23Ya.27alon_on_Jewish_extremists| DRN: Duma arson attack#Ya'alon on Jewish extremists]]==
Hello Huldra, just checking to see if you are wanting to join the discussion occurring at the [[WP:DRN|dispute resolution noticeboard]] concerning the article [[Duma arson attack]]. If you could please either join or let us know that you do not wish to join the discussion, that would be much appreciated. Thanks, [[User:Drcrazy102|Drcrazy102]] ([[User talk:Drcrazy102|talk]]) 02:33, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:Drcrazy102]], thank you for the reminder, I´m working on a reply, but I´m not yet quite sure if I will involve myself here, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:59, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

== Settleman ==

For your information. I happened to see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli_West_Bank_barrier&offset=&limit=500&action=history Israeli West Bank barrier] and observed that Settleman is a successor of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Averysoda Averysoda]. --[[User:Qualitatis|Qualitatis]] ([[User talk:Qualitatis|talk]]) 13:05, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Qualitatis]]: By [[WP:ASPERSIONS]], you should never make such allegations anywhere, *except* on the [[WP:SPI]] page. Also note that [[User:Averysoda]] was a [[User:Wlglunight93]]-sock, so you should mention that in any SPI, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:13, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

== Question ==

{{ping|Zero0000}} Would you have any idea what the original source(or author) for this picture is: [http://www.palestineremembered.com/GeoPoints/Jinin_524/Picture_74658.html] It's a sketch of Jenin with its mosque from 1880. I'd like to upload it with the proper information. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 17:15, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:I´m sorry; I do not recognise it, from the style I would guess it is from some 1880s-1890s -book; I think your best chance is to put a note up on the "comment"-section, or, if possible, contact the uploader.
::It's in the style (and colouring) of [[Harry Fenn]], and the full title appears to be 'The mosque of Jenîn. Surrounded by gardens; an aqueduct and fountain in the foreground,' reproduced in [[Charles William Wilson|Sir Charles William Wilson]]'s multi-volume ''Picturesque Palestine, Sinai and Egypt,'' D. Appleton, New York 1884. It doesn't appear googable, however. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:06, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Nishidani}} Thanks! ..but which of the 4 volumes?

::::*{{cite book |editor =Wilson, Charles Williams |editorlink= |title= Picturesque Palestine, Sinai and Egypt |url=http://www.archive.org/details/picturesquepales01wilsuoft|volume=1 |year=c. 1881|publisher= [[D. Appleton & Company|D. Appleton]] |location=New York}}

::::*{{cite book |editor =Wilson, Charles Williams |editorlink= |title= Picturesque Palestine, Sinai and Egypt |url=http://www.archive.org/details/picturesquepales02wilsuoft |volume=2 |year=c. 1881|publisher= [[D. Appleton & Company|D. Appleton]] |location=New York}}

::::*{{cite book |editor =Wilson, Charles Williams |editorlink= |title= Picturesque Palestine, Sinai and Egypt |url=http://www.archive.org/details/picturesquepales03wilsuoft |volume=3 |year=c. 1881|publisher= [[D. Appleton & Company|D. Appleton]] |location=New York}}

::::*{{cite book |editor =Wilson, Charles Williams |editorlink= |title= Picturesque Palestine, Sinai and Egypt |url=http://www.archive.org/details/picturesquepales04wilsuoft |volume=4 |year=c. 1881|publisher= [[D. Appleton & Company|D. Appleton]] |location=New York}}
::::[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:11, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Nishidani}} Found it; vol 2, p. [http://archive.org/stream/picturesquepales02wilsuoft#page/22/mode/1up 22], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:14, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Atta'''boy'''!:)[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
::::::::[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=attagirl Hmmmprf], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:41, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:On another matter; there seem to be broad agreement (heh! ..that is, between Zero and myself....) that [[Ayn Karim]] and [[Ein Karem]] should be merged, likewise with [[Qamun]] and [[Qira, Haifa]]. Is there anyway to merge them, preserving the history? Or should we create a new article for "Qira wa Qamun"? Khalid calls it ''Qira (Qira wa Qamun)'', [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:32, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
::I might leave a comment. Anyway, there was a nice painting by David Roberts that I added instead. Palestine Remembered has tons of historical photos of Jenin. If only ARIJ could make a profile for the city with all of the contemporary info that comes with it, I would begin working on making it a GA. Same for [[Tulkarm]], which is in much better shape. So far, only the Tulkarm and Jenin Governorates have not been covered in detail by ARIJ.
::As for the mergers. It appears that all the content in 'Ayn Karim has already been added to Ein Karem, so not sure if the edit history of 'Ayn Karim should be merged as well. If it is redirected, the history will be preserved in the redirect. Same for Qira wa Qamun (if that's what we're going to call the article). You could create a new article and merge both into the new one, but I think it's better to just copy and paste the info from Qira to Qamun with the necessary c/e and appropriate placement. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 20:54, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:::Yeah; David Roberts is always a nice choice...and I spent some major time, last year cleaning up the "Demographics" -section in [[Jenin]]: I was fooled, as it looked so "professional"; it turned out that the vandal had just copied your "Demographics"-section from Gaza city!! ...see the talk. That took more than 4 years to discover.....we need more eyes on these articles....I think I´ll make redir of [[Ayn Karim]]; still not quite sure what we should call the Qira/Quamun-article, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:05, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
::::Thank you both. I uploaded it. Please correct any information that isn't accurate. Here's the [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jenin_by_Charles_Wilson_(color_version).jpg file].
::::I agree, a much better eye needs to be kept on the major cities especially. In the Qalqilya article, it stated that the population was 91,000 according to the 2007 census backed by the citation, when in fact the census recorded 41,000. An error of only >110%. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 21:53, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

== not in the sources mentioned? ==

No, it is in the sources! And why did you revereted the rest of my modifications?... Please look at the sources, even if you have a great experience on Wikipedia. It is hurtful to be accused of lying.
Best wishes.
--[[User:Point by point|... Point by point ...]] ([[User talk:Point by point|talk]]) 22:30, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Point by point]]: besides removing the long-standing "an [[ethnic group]] comprising"...your additions were not acceptable, ''"The PLO molded and developed the construction and creation of the palestinian [[ethnicity]] symbolized by [[Islam]] and the [[Arabic language]]"'' really?? If you had said that about Hamas, I could more have understood you. Again: take it to the talk-page, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:37, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

::: I am sorry, apparently it is not acceptable for you. But it is in the sources, therefore it is acceptable for Wikipedia. You can disagree with the sources, but not accusing me of wrongdoing.

Here is the picture with All rights reserved to Mohammed Abed/Getty image/ AFP [http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/lucydavies/100005959/pictures-of-the-year-the-photographers-choice/]. The picture has been modified; and there is no mentions of Mohammed Abed/Getty image/ AFP.
--[[User:Point by point|... Point by point ...]] ([[User talk:Point by point|talk]]) 22:49, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
:::[[User:Point by point]]: First of all, any discussion about the acceptability, or not, of a picture on commons should go there, not on this talk-page. Secondly; the pictures are clearly different (with the commons-picture showing the white-hooded man on the left.) The commons picture is also by Mohammed Abed, but not Getty images, see [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Israeli_phosphorus-shelling_school_2009.jpeg Commons:Deletion requests/File:Israeli phosphorus-shelling school 2009.jpeg], So the photographer took more than one picture during the attack: not really surprising, is it? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:03, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
::::Here is a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmT0MjlPpRo youtube from the attack on the school], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:41, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
::::::Thank you for the war porn, indeed, it appears to be two different shots. However, the difference in the image quality is doubtful to me, and I was primarily suspecting a copyright violation. I suppose it was not uploaded under M. Abed/AFP authorization. --[[User:Point by point|... Point by point ...]] ([[User talk:Point by point|talk]]) 01:42, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::::[[User:Point by point]]: Ok, that is another question. I object to the tendency for a conflict, or disagreement, to spread out over many pages. As I said; the question of wether or not this picture should be on commons: that question should be discussed on commons; and not here, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:22, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

== ''Palestine-Israel articles 3'' arbitration case proposed decision posted ==

Hi Huldra. A [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_3/Proposed_decision|decision has been proposed]] in the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3|''Palestine-Israel articles 3'']] arbitration case, for which [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Notification list|you are on the notification list]]. Please review this decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on the [[Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_3/Proposed_decision|proposed decision talk page]]. For a guide to the arbitration process, see [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration]]. For the Arbitration Committee, '''[[User:L235|L235]]''' ([[User talk:L235#top|t]] / [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]] / [[User:L235/siginfo|<small>ping in reply</small>]]) 20:41, 14 October 2015 (UTC) (via [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]))
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==Meithalun, Marj Sanur has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{DYKM
| box3
| text = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Meithalun]], [[Marj Sanur]], an article you either created or significantly contributed to,<!--
-->&nbsp;has been nominated&nbsp; to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Meithalun, Marj Sanur|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 03:24, 16 October 2015 (UTC)}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

== Editor of the Week ==

{| style="border: 2px solid lightgray; background-color: #fafafa" color:#aaa"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[File:Editor of the week barnstar.svg|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color:#606570" |'''Editor of the Week'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 2px solid lightgray" |Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as [[WP:Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]] for your long-term efforts to help new editors. Thank you for the great contributions! <span style="color:#a0a2a5">(courtesy of the [[WP:WER|<span style="color:#80c0ff">Wikipedia Editor Retention Project</span>]])</span>
|}
Editor [[User:John Carter]] submitted the following nomination for [[WP:Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]]:

I nominate {{User10|Huldra}} for her singular courage and endurance. She has over 37,000 edits in roughly 10 years as an editor, in which time she has gotten over 50 DYKs. Her primary focus of attention is the Israel-Palestine subject area, including a lot of the recent events there. Current event articles are among the hardest ones we have to work on, because, among other things, there aren't necessarily any previous articles which can be found in other sources to compare them with. And current event articles in contentious areas, like the Israel/Palestine area, is even worse. There are a number of fanatics on both sides, and comparatively few others to deal with them and keep the content up to a reasonable level. In her particular case, she has even threatened with rape for her efforts in keeping the content in reasonable shape. There is not, and cannot be, any excuse for such behaviour on the parts of the threat makers. But the number of people who would be willing to subject themselves to such abuse to keep content on controversial topics useful to the readers is small, and I think those who do deserve our greatest thanks and respect.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:
<pre>{{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Recipient user box}}</pre>

{| cellpadding="2" style="text-align:center; border: 2px solid lightgray; width: 250px; font-size:9.5pt; color:#202530; background:#ffffff; padding:10px; clear: right;" align="right"
|-
| [[File:Project editor retention.svg|235px|link=Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention]]
|-
| [[File:Editor of the week.svg|244px|link=Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week]]
|-
| [[File:WikiDefender Barnstar.png|200px]]
|-
| style="font-size:18pt; color:#202530" font-family:Garamond; |'''''[[User talk:Huldra|Huldra]]'''''
|-
| '''Defender of the Reader'''
|-
| &nbsp;
|-
|<big>'''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week#Recipients of Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]]'''</big> </br>''for the week beginning October 18, 2015''
|-
| An editor of courage and endurance
|-
|-
| <big>'''Recognized for'''</big>
|-
| Her willingness to edit in the face of abuse and remain calm
|-
|-
| <big>'''Notable work'''(s)</big>
|-
| The Israel/Palestine Arena
|-
|-
|<big>'''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Nominations|Nomination page]]'''</big>
|}


Thanks again for your efforts! [[User:Buster3.5|Buster3.5]] ([[User talk:Buster3.5|talk]]) 15:21, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
:: [[User:John Carter]], [[User:Buster3.5]]: thank you so much; I really appreciate it! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:15, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::One of the benefits of facilitating the Eddy award is that I get to meet quality editors like you. Too many veteran editors spend too much time at the various drama-laden pages of Wikipedia. They rarely take the time to see the hard working editors that fly under the radar of contention and strife and they begin to look at WP as one argument after another. Editors like you are the heartbeat of Wikipedia. Thanks for all you do. Happy New Year. [[User: Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven</em>''']]<small>[[User talk:Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk</em>''']]</small> 17:18, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
::Congratulations Huldra, have a nice new year. [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish computer'']] ([[User talk:Rubbish computer|''Merry Christmas!'']]: [[Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer|''...And a Happy New Year!'']]) 22:11, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Buster7}} {{ping|Rubbish computer}} thank you both, for your nice words, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:28, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
== Asking for advice ==

Hello [[User:Huldra|Huldra]],

This problem concern principally, me and the user [[User:Serialjoepsycho|-Serialjoepsycho-]].

The user [[User:Serialjoepsycho|-Serialjoepsycho-]] has deleted a message I left on his talk page [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Serialjoepsycho&diff=686267220&oldid=686212940]. Therefater, he left a respond on my talk page saying that "the appropriate place to respond is over on the talk page of the article"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Point_by_point&diff=686269451&oldid=685139253]. I tried to continue the discussion on his talk page, after it. the user [[User:Serialjoepsycho|-Serialjoepsycho-]] then removed both comments. I try to add the first comment he deleted, and a comment in which I quoted his answer, but the user [[User:Serialjoepsycho|-Serialjoepsycho-]] deleted the second comment again and again. I wrote a comment indicating that "The comment of ... Point by point ..., has been deleted by user -Serialjoepsycho- because he "wanted it to be deleted"" as he explained on my talk page, but this "third" comment was soon removed [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_military_occupations&diff=686440845&oldid=686440254]. Then, he argued that he had the right to delete my comments on his talk page and on the talk page of the article "List of military occupation"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_military_occupations&action=history], pretending, it was his comment[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_military_occupations] and also attacking me on the personal level. Finally, he moved and modified his comments, in the middle of the conversation we had. Making the conversation incomprehensible. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_military_occupations&diff=686451934&oldid=686451645]

Please; could you give me an advice, about how I should handle and resolve "this problem".
Thanking you in advance for your assistance in this matter.
Kind regards.
--[[User:Point by point|... Point by point ...]] ([[User talk:Point by point|talk]]) 21:51, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
*[[User:Point by point]]: anyone can delete comments on ''their own user-page''. By deleting a comment, you have in a way acknowledged that you have seen it. I would consider it not very polite to repeat it. So yeah: Serialjoepsycho has every right to remove any comment you leave on his/her talk-page.
*And generally; comments about an article should go on that article talk-page; this so that editors later can see the discussion. (Other editors of the article, a month or a year from now, cannot possible know that they should go to your, or Serialjoepsycho-talk-page, to see the discussion.)
*On an article talk-page: Normally it is not good to remove ones comment completely, *if* someone has responded to it. Instead, on should "strike" them out, <s>like this</s>. If someone deletes his/her comments on an article talk-page, after someone else have responded, then you would be in your right to ask them to stop doing that. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:15, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

:::Thank you for your concise answer,

In order to respond to his answer, on the talk page "List of military occupation"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_military_occupations&action=history] as he asked for:
* Do you think it is forbidden for me, to quote the answer (of the comment he deleted), that he left on my talk page?
* Do you think he has the right to delete my comment on the talk page "List of military occupation"? (The comment was part of the discussion)
Also, I was trying to be nice and I struck out the quotation, after he told me that he "wanted to delete it" and tried to removed all of my comment. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Point_by_point&diff=686269451&oldid=685139253]
* Do you think he has the right to move and modify a comment after I have respond to it, Making the conversation incomprehensible?
--[[User:Point by point|... Point by point ...]] ([[User talk:Point by point|talk]]) 22:59, 19 October 2015 (UTC)--[[User:Point by point|... Point by point ...]] ([[User talk:Point by point|talk]]) 23:07, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
*[[User:Point by point]]: firstly; I see that first [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASerialjoepsycho&type=revision&diff=686267220&oldid=686212940 you posted] on [[User:Serialjoepsycho]] talk-page, which s/he then removed, then you [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASerialjoepsycho&type=revision&diff=686349449&oldid=686270012 repost exactly the same] message: if someone did that on my user-page, I would be rather irritated. This is unnecessarily provocative. You really should not do that.
*Secondly: I see that you have copied Serialjoepsycho´s post from one page to another: again: that is really not something you should do. (Unless you find the posts so troubling, that you repost them to [[WP:AN]], or a similar place). Forgive me for not going through all the history on [[Talk:List of military occupations]], but if you moved a comment of Serialjoepsycho from a user-page to that article-talk-page; well, then s/he has every right to remove it, IMO, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:32, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

::Ok, It would be logical, to mention his message before responding to it...I don't think you would be irritate, because at first instance you would not delete a comment, then answer to it on another page, while asking to respond on another page. But I was not talking about his/her feelings, whatsoever. For my part, S/he has made offensive comments, that might irritate a majority of people. And actually, as I said I did not moved his comment, I quoted it.'''It's under my signature '''. Do you think it is forbidden to quote him? Do you think s/he has the right to delete my comment or move and modify his own comments on the talk page [[Talk:List of military occupations]]? Do you think I should do something about it?
--[[User:Point by point|... Point by point ...]] ([[User talk:Point by point|talk]]) 00:23, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
::-[[User:Point by point]]: without going into all the details: this really looks like "a storm in a tea-cup" to me. And there is only one advice I can give in such a case, and that is [[WP:DROPTHESTICK]]. In short: just leave it, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:45, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

==Jaba', Jenin has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{DYKM
| box3
| text = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Jaba', Jenin]], an article you either created or significantly contributed to,<!--
-->&nbsp;has been nominated&nbsp; to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Jaba', Jenin|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 00:22, 22 October 2015 (UTC)}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

== Ramallah ==

Hi, Huldra

I saw your changes to my edit and apreciated the new bits of info.

I have reverted some language to my initial edit as I felt that some adjectives and nouns used before and some later were bringing unnecessary confusion to the text.

Also I have eemoved references to general situauons that did not have any connection to the history of the city.

If you want to continue to edit, please do so without burdening the text with heavy incursions contentious stuff and keep it simple.

Please also note that references to poltical texts without proper warning is inconsistent with Wikipedia standards of accuracy as it introduces an aditional layer of discussion the reader might not be famikiar with. It would be appreciated if you referenced info mainly or idealy exclusively to peer-reviewd and academically vetted material or orherwise make proper warnings in the text as to the opinionated nature of statements.

Thanks

ABY [[User:Adir Bar Yohanan|Adir Bar Yohanan]] ([[User talk:Adir Bar Yohanan|talk]]) 22:31, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:Adir Bar Yohanan]]: lets see, in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ramallah&type=revision&diff=687640101&oldid=687535186 these] edits to [[Ramallah]] you removed all mentioning of "Palestinians", and instead included "Samaria" for the West Bank. Firstly: the word "Samaria" is not used outside describing places in the Biblical era, secondly, Wikipedia has no place for people who are allergic to the word "Palestinian". Simply, no. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:38, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

==Silat ad-Dhahr, Al-Judeida has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{DYKM
| box3
| text = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Silat ad-Dhahr]], [[Al-Judeida]], an article you either created or significantly contributed to,<!--
-->&nbsp;has been nominated&nbsp; to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Silat ad-Dhahr, Al-Judeida|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 04:14, 29 October 2015 (UTC)}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

==Marie Serneholt==
If you want to, please take a look at this weeks TAFI selected article, [[Marie Serneholt]]. Regards.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 21:48, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:BabbaQ]], thank you for your request, but I have no great interest in Swedish pop bands.... cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:12, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

==DYK for Jaba', Jenin==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#13 November 2015|13 November 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Jaba', Jenin]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the mountainous [[Palestinian people|Palestinian]] village of '''[[Jaba', Jenin|Jaba']]''' ''(pictured)'' served as the [[throne village]] of the [[Jarrar clan]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Jaba', Jenin|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Jaba', Jenin]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Jaba', Jenin|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Jaba', Jenin]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Jaba%27,_Jenin&datefrom=2015-11-01&dateto=2015-11-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201511/Jaba%27,_Jenin daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> Thanks for this article [[User:Victuallers|Victuallers]] ([[User talk:Victuallers|talk]]) 12:01, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

==DYK for Marj Sanur==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#17 November 2015|17 November 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Marj Sanur]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Meithalun]]''' is the largest [[Palestinian people|Palestinian]] village in the '''[[Marj Sanur]]''' valley?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Marj Sanur|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Marj Sanur]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Marj Sanur|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Marj Sanur]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Marj_Sanur&datefrom=2015-11-01&dateto=2015-11-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201511/Marj_Sanur daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:02, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

== [[WP:ACE2015|ArbCom elections are now open!]] ==

{{Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 13:09, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Mdann52@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mdann52/list&oldid=691995604 -->

== ANI discussion ==

== Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion ==

Hello, Huldra. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Leon Uris and Exodus|Leon Uris and Exodus]].<!--Template:NPOVN-notice--> Thank you. --[[User:Light show|Light show]] ([[User talk:Light show|talk]]) 03:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


== Invitation to Edit ==

Hello {{ping|Huldra}}, very sorry we all had to experience the unpleasantness from the above user. I think the case is resolving itself. You sound like you have some direct and academic experience on a number of topics having to do with Israel. Would you be interested in reviewing/editing this article: [[Beta_Israel]] ? Nothing too controversial here (and no trouble-makers thus far) but there are some "on the ground" issues/topics I think we could get more info on. Thanks![[User:Trinacrialucente|Trinacrialucente]] ([[User talk:Trinacrialucente|talk]]) 22:21, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Trinacrialucente}} Thanks, but I edit -mostly- geographical places in Israel/Palestine, finding sources for their history pre-1948. I am afraid I know next to nothing about [[Beta Israel]], so I cannot promise I will do any work there, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:39, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
::Completely understood. Take care.[[User:Trinacrialucente|Trinacrialucente]] ([[User talk:Trinacrialucente|talk]]) 22:46, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

==DYK for Al-Judeida==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#4 December 2015|4 December 2015]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Al-Judeida]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the [[Palestinian people|Palestinian]] village of '''[[al-Judeida]]''' was a [[Kingdom of Jerusalem|Crusader]] estate called "Gidideh"?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Judeida|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Judeida]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Al-Judeida|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Al-Judeida]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikiviewstats/index.php?page=Al-Judeida&datefrom=2015-12-01&dateto=2015-12-31 live views], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201512/Al-Judeida daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:02, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

== Duh! ==

Hey kid, could ua pull ya nose out of that huge dusty tome for a sec, and just a brief note on my page enlightening me about the whereabouts of Qutna, in the Ramallah district, northeast of Jerusalem? Fanks, in anticipation, but otherwise, if it's a bovver, faged it. Yours, Nishiduncie.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:08, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
:and, how on earth does one get [[Muhammad Najati Sidqi]] nominated for DYK? ("Did you know that a Palestinian, [[Muhammad Najati Sidqi]], wrote a book arguing that Nazism was incompatible with Islam?". Is it too late? I created it on 7 December 2015‎.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:15, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
::[[User talk:Nishidani]]: the only village resembling that name NW of J.lem is [[Qatanna]]. And googling around, I found that the killed Anas Muntaner Taha is alternatively found to be from Qatanna, [http://www.poica.org/upload/Image/Daily%20report%202015/August%202015/august0915.pdf link], and "Qutna" [https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=766964 link].
::And I see NSH001 will fix the DYK-nom (nice article!).....I normally let Al Ameer sons fix it.....;) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]])
:::Sorry for the bother. It's a mystery. Qatanna is in the Jerusalem governate, whereas Qutna is described as in the Ramallah al Bireh governorate, and north-east, not north-west, of Jerusalem. Well, to be kept in mind. Thanks [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 10:45, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Nishidani]]: where does it say that it is in the Ramallah and al Bireh governorate? There is nothing like that name in [http://vprofile.arij.org/ramallah/vdata.php the arij profiles] of that governorate. And Maan-news, [http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=768622 here] and [https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=766964 here] describes it as "northwest of Jerusalem"? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:25, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

== Brapologies, ==

This may sound stupid or odd, but I never meant to revert your edit at the Bra page. My cat stepped on the tablet, and it seems their paws do the same as our fingers. Any road, Kitty (who is currently cleaning her foot) and I, apologise. Best, [[User:Kafka Liz|Kafka Liz]] ([[User talk:Kafka Liz|talk]]) 20:51, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:Kafka Liz]], heh, yeah, I wondered what was so offensive about it! And I envy you your cat...I travel too much to have any, but absolutely love them..... Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]])
::I'd have to ask her, and while she is expressive, she isn't always as clear as one might prefer. This one... She was older when she came to live with me.
::There is a lot I'd want to change about my life, but God help me if I couldn't make a good home for cats. [[User:Kafka Liz|Kafka Liz]] ([[User talk:Kafka Liz|talk]]) 21:10, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
::: [[User:Kafka Liz]] {{smiley}} [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:18, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

== December 2015 ==
<div class="user-block" style="min-height: 40px"> [[File:Stop x nuvola with clock.svg|40px|left|alt=Stop icon with clock]] You have been '''[[WP:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing for a period of '''48 hours''' for [[WP:Edit warring|edit warring]], as you did at [[:As'ad AbuKhalil]]. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to [[WP:Five pillars|make useful contributions]]. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may [[WP:Appealing a block|appeal this block]] by first reading the [[WP:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]], then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "tlx|" code. -->{{tlx|unblock|2=reason=''Your reason here &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;''}}.<p>During a dispute, you should first try to [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|discuss controversial changes]] and seek [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]]. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]], and in some cases it may be appropriate to request [[Wikipedia:Page protection|page protection]]. &nbsp;[[User:Ks0stm|<font color="009900">'''Ks0stm'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Email|E]])</sup> 00:07, 14 December 2015 (UTC)</p></div><!-- Template:uw-ewblock -->
{{unblock reviewed | 1=Unbeliveable. First time in over 10 years editing and 40 K edits that I have been blocked. I reverted an editor who should not have been editing the article in the first place ....pr [[WP:ARBPIA3]]. ;[[User:Ks0stm]] please learn the latest arb.com sanctions before you give long-time editors their first-ever block! No wonder "new editor" Terrible towel7 triumphs..... Sigh. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 00:21, 14 December 2015 (UTC) | accept = See below. [[User:Ks0stm|<font color="009900">'''Ks0stm'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Email|E]])</sup> 00:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC)}}
:Maybe I'm misreading it, but I read the template on the top of the talk page and blocked you based on the part saying "All articles related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, broadly construed, are under WP:1RR", while noting that your reverts did not meet either exception stated in the template ("Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring.") [[User:Ks0stm|<font color="009900">'''Ks0stm'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Email|E]])</sup> 00:28, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:: Incredibly incompetent. Unblock her now. "''IP editors and accounts with less than 500 edits and 30 days tenure are prohibited from editing any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. This prohibition may be enforced by reverts, page protections, blocks, the use of Pending Changes, and appropriate edit filters.''"[[User:Dan Murphy|Dan Murphy]] ([[User talk:Dan Murphy|talk]]) 00:33, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
::[[User:Ks0stm]] Oh yeah you did. The new rules came in place *exactly* because of my evidence at [[WP:ARBPIA3]]..''in a similar situation''. I had ''every'' right to undo that "new editor" (who strangely knew his way to the 3RR board at once..) who should ''not'' have been editing the article at all! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 00:37, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:::I'll self trout for that one. I will say, in my defense, I assumed the template at the top of the talk page accurately summarized the sanctions, and that the only exception to the 1RR was for what I already quoted. My apologies, though. I've unblocked you with a full note in the unblock summary. [[User:Ks0stm|<font color="009900">'''Ks0stm'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Email|E]])</sup> 00:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
== fyi ==
[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment#Amendment_request:_ARBPIA]] <small>[[User talk:NE Ent|NE Ent]]</small> 01:00, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

== A pie for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:A very beautiful Nectarine Pie.jpg|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Many thanks for the whale (well-deserved). Again, my most sincere apologies. I should have looked closer than just the template on the talk page. Hopefully the C&A request will allow me to finish cleaning up the mess I made. [[User:Ks0stm|<font color="009900">'''Ks0stm'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]•[[User:Ks0stm/Email|E]])</sup> 03:20, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
|}

== Block log ==

It looks like ArbCom may not strike your unwarranted block from the logs. At least the two arbitrators who expressed opposition to that seem hard to convince otherwise. For what is worth, if in the future someone uses your block log against you, I think you will be entitled to take the issue to [[WP:ANI]] and show how you expressed concern to ArbCom that ''exactly that'' would happen, and if I get notified of a such report, I will back you. [[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 20:33, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:LjL]] Thanks, I really appreciate your support (and the support of several others) ...but just now I feel like taking a loooooong break from Wikipedia, mostly because of those arb.com opinions. I thought arb.com was there to help problems go away, instead they in effect tell you that "it´s not a problem!" Not helpful. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:38, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
::Honestly, I have yet to see someone, anyone on Wikipedia expressing a good opinion about ArbCom (although many want to take issues there). [[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 20:44, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
:::[[User:LjL]] Well, they didn´t have a good year, this year...but on the other hand: personally I would rather be water-boarded than serving on arb.com....Not an easy job. Perhaps with the new arb.commers in the New Year? All the 6 I voted for got in...so I´m hopeful ;P [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:55, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
::::I forgot to vote :-\ [[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 20:57, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
::::: [[User:LjL]] No right to complain, then! {{smiley}} [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
:::::: I saw it the first time. I have no good retort :P [[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 23:56, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
::::::: [[User:LjL]] Hey; I was just testing Twinkle! -had to remind myself if I could add an edit-line or not when using it(I couldn`t) ...sorry for pinging you...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 00:03, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

== No doubt you are aware of it but ==

I just noted we have all the data in English for all cities and towns in the various governorates according to the 2016 data [http://www.pcbs.gov.ps/site/803/default.aspx here]. I was just checking Hebron when I stumbled on it, and the Hebron Governorate places on again checking all have 2007 figures. I'll slowly get round to doing some a day so that eventually all are updated. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Nishidani]], thanks, actually I did not know about it....I´m pretty bad at those post-48 sources. Though you might want to use the archive version ([https://web.archive.org/web/20151222075914/http://www.pcbs.gov.ps/Portals/_Rainbow/Documents/hebrn.htm here], for Hebron-district), as in my experience; those web-pages tend to get dead pretty quickly. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:15, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:: {{re|Nishidani}} I'm pretty sure that at least the later years in those tables are statistical projections from earlier data rather than actual estimates. Somewhere there is a description; can't find it just now. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 20:37, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Well that saves me ruining the Christmas break revising all the town data, as I thought obligatory. C.P. Snow's shade will be happy: I'll probably have time to get through [[Strangers and Brothers]], which I started yesterday:)[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 22:06, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

== Season's Greetings ==

<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#01902a; background-color:#fff; border-width:3px; text-align:left; padding:2px;"><div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:#fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:6px;" class="plainlinks">[[File:Xmas colors, 2013 (photo by David J).jpg|x80px|left]]

[[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]<sup>[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|Hello!]]</sup> is wishing you a [[Mary Poppins|Merry]] [[Christmas]]! This greeting (and season) promotes [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|WikiLove]] and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a [[Christmas|Merry Christmas]], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year! <br />

''Spread the cheer by adding {{tls|Xmas6}} to their talk page with a friendly message.''
</div></div>

Wishing you a peaceful, prosperous 2016.

Best,

[[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]<sup>[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|Hello!]]</sup> 01:12, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:GeneralizationsAreBad]] thanks, GAB, same wishes for you! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:17, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:#fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">[[image:Christmas_tree_sxc_hu.jpg|70px|left]]


[[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish computer'']] ([[User talk:Rubbish computer|''Merry Christmas!'']]: [[Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer|''...And a Happy New Year!'']]) is wishing you a [[Mary Poppins|Merry]] [[Christmas]]! This greeting (and season) promotes [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|WikiLove]] and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a [[Christmas|Merry Christmas]], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year! <br />

''Spread the cheer by adding {{tls|Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.''
</div> [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish computer'']] ([[User talk:Rubbish computer|''Merry Christmas!'']]: [[Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer|''...And a Happy New Year!'']]) 17:50, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

== Happy New Year, Huldra! ==
<div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em;{{border-radius|1em}} {{box-shadow|0.1em|0.1em|0.5em|rgba(0,0,0,0.75)}}<!--
-->" class="plainlinks">[[File:Fuochi d'artificio.gif|left|212px]][[File:Happy new year 01.svg|180px|right]]
{{Paragraph break}}
{{Center|{{resize|179%|'''''[[New Year|Happy New Year]]!'''''}}}}
'''Huldra''',<br />Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable [[New Year]], and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish computer'']] ([[User talk:Rubbish computer|''Merry Christmas!'']]: [[Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer|''...And a Happy New Year!'']]) 01:09, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
<br /><br /><br />
</div>
:<div style="float:left">''{{resize|88%|Send New Year cheer by adding {{tls|Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.}}''
{{-}}
::{{ping|Rubbish computer}} Thank you very much, ...and a happy New Year to you, too, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:28, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
== Happy New Year, Huldra! ==
<div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em;{{border-radius|1em}} {{box-shadow|0.1em|0.1em|0.5em|rgba(0,0,0,0.75)}}<!--
-->" class="plainlinks">[[File:Fuochi d'artificio.gif|left|212px]][[File:Happy new year 01.svg|180px|right]]
{{Paragraph break}}
{{Center|{{resize|179%|'''''[[New Year|Happy New Year]]!'''''}}}}
'''Huldra''',<br />Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable [[New Year]], and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. <font face="Papyrus" size="3" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 20:41, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
<br /><br /><br />
</div>
:<div style="float:left">''{{resize|88%|Send New Year cheer by adding {{tls|Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.}}''
{{-}}
::{{ping|Liz}} Thank you very much, ...and a happy New Year to you, too, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:28, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

== Thank you for supporting my RfA ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Thank-you-word-cloud.jpg|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Hawkeye7 RfA Appreciation award'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for participating in and supporting my RfA. It was very much appreciated. [[User:Hawkeye7|Hawkeye7]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye7|talk]]) 22:21, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
|}

==Hi==
Sorry if I sounded too aggressive.. Your input is appreciated. --[[User:Makeandtoss|Makeandtoss]] ([[User talk:Makeandtoss|talk]]) 23:06, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Makeandtoss]]: don´t worry about it. Btw, your "[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User%3AMakeandtoss block-log] is still clear. Mine isn´t...and that arb.com chose [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Amendment_request:_Palestine-Israel_articles_.281RR.29_.28January_2016.29 *not* to unmake that] ..still make me absolutely furious. Ah well, as [[Tyrion Lannister|Tyrion]] put it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmq-LJb8P-8 "if you want justice, you come to the wrong place"]. That is both for [[Game of Thrones]] ...and Wikipedia.... Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::Hahaha, well, I am not going to try to disapprove that quote because its right. Oberyn challenged Tyrion's words and was eventually mind blown (pun intended) ;) [[User:Makeandtoss|Makeandtoss]] ([[User talk:Makeandtoss|talk]]) 15:16, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

== 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle ==

Sorry, I didn't realize that was one of those 30/500 arbitration enforcement pages. Thank you for telling me. [[User:Qpalzmmzlapq|<span style="color:#0B64CE"><b>Qpalzmmzlapq</b></span>]] &#124; [[User talk:Qpalzmmzlapq|<span style="color:#41293B"><b>talk</b></span>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Qpalzmmzlapq|<span style="color:#8C8AD8"><b>contribs</b></span>]] 23:16, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Qpalzmmzlapq]] That´s ok, one IP and one new user (Stew Pidd Crow) are edit-warring there now; hope it will be protected soon, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

== Telstra IPs ==

I stumbled over [[User talk:Widr#Telstra-sock|this discussion]], and something about "Australian IP-hopping vandal on Telstra" rung a bell. See these discussions [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cyphoidbomb&oldid=698093468#Concerning_a_few_IPs][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cyphoidbomb&direction=next&oldid=701336360#IP_is_at_it_again][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cyphoidbomb&diff=prev&oldid=703944409#Rangeblock.3F]. Do they look related? <span style="font-family: sylfaen">[[User:Eman235|<font color="green">E'''man'''</font><font color="#6643d1">2'''35'''</font>]]/[[User talk:Eman235|<font color="brown">''talk''</font>]]</span> 21:49, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Eman235]] at first glance I would say no. "My" Telstra-vandal is interested in Israel/Palestine (with an extreme pro-Israeli viewpoint). I have never seen him stray outside the Israel/Palestinian area. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:09, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
::Yeah, I thought as much. This other one mainly does silly things, like adding vast amounts of interwiki links or messing around with IPA templates. <span style="font-family: sylfaen">[[User:Eman235|<font color="green">E'''man'''</font><font color="#6643d1">2'''35'''</font>]]/[[User talk:Eman235|<font color="brown">''talk''</font>]]</span> 23:44, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

==SPI: GamlielBeyderman==
Due to the recent activity at the [[Bharti Kher]] and other articles, I have initiated an investigation request. I have posted it at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/GamlielBeyderman]] should you wish to comment. Regards, [[User:Yamaguchi先生|Yamaguchi先生]] ([[User talk:Yamaguchi先生|talk]]) 22:47, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
: [[User:Yamaguchi先生]], ok, thanks. I´m not sure GamlielBeyderman is a sock, though, both Sean.hoyland and myself have "fans" who revert every edit, when they are around. I suspect the socks are one of those "fans", [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:51, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== Mobile, Alabama ==

Hello Huldra. I would like to ask that you take a more careful look before reverting an edit. With [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mobile,_Alabama&diff=714688296&oldid=714688189 this] edit to [[Mobile, Alabama]], you have actually restored vandalism. The vandalism was added by Interrexconsul, who is adding vandalism to articles while claiming to remove it. [[User:FreeKnowledgeCreator|FreeKnowledgeCreator]] ([[User talk:FreeKnowledgeCreator|talk]]) 07:37, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

== Question about Hauran village ==

Hey Huldra, just started [[Sahwat al-Khudr]], was wondering if it corresponds with "mz48 Sahut al-Qamh" on p. 220 from Hutteroth? If so, could you add the standard 1596 census/tax info? Regards, --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 20:42, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Al Ameer son]], well, I ''think'' it is, but the maps/info is a bit unclear. On p. 220: '''mz48''' Sahut al-Qamh 7+ (310/224)...which is east (and south) of, say, p.218: '''p95''' Qanawat, Qanawat 7+ (301/240). Which it also is on one map I have (ni-37-13-as_suwayda-syria-jordan.jpg): [[Qanawat]] is west (and north) of [[Sahwat al-Khudr]]. (I don´t have any map with the Jordanian grid-numbers, which the location is given in).
:However, on the map in Hutteroth.jpg, p95 is east of mz48....Perhaps I should just assume that Hutteroth.jpg is not very accurate? I´ll ping [[User:Zero0000]], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:54, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
::Ok, will wait to hear what the Z-man thinks. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 23:01, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
::: Z-man here ;). {{Re|Al Ameer son}} The map "Soueida200K.jpg" shows Sahauet el Kodor (not sure of the 4th letter, could be o or e) at the lat/long given at [[Sahwat al-Khudr]] and the grid 310/224 given for Sahut al-Qamh on Hutteroth p220. So I'd say you have a match. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 02:20, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
::::Thanks for clearing that up. Now that we've got a match, could either of you add the 1596 info? (I need to get a copy of this book). I'm planning on starting articles on nearby Urman and Miyamas this week as well, will update you here. Cheers --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 19:38, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::{{Re|Al Ameer son}} Done, and found the Porter -quote. Note that Porter wrote a lot about Syria, so a ref without a date really isn´t that helpful.... See [[User:Huldra/Syria]], Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::Yea I added it while it was a draft some time ago without the full citation, and when I moved the article to mainspace a couple days ago, I couldn't find the source (of course). Anyway, thanks for finding the ref. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 01:20, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
Ok, [[Urman, Syria|Urman]] has been moved to mainspace. I believe it corresponds to "mz24 Urman 7+ (315/213)" on page 212. Could you add the info? --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 17:59, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Al Ameer son]]: Yes, you are right, and the info is added, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:06, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for updating [[Lubayn]]. Could you do the same for [[Dhibin]]? --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 01:41, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
:::And [[Harran, as-Suwayda]] ;) It corresponds with "mz8 Harran 7+ (279/255)" --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 20:50, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:Al Ameer son]], yepp, and done. Should some of these villages be nominated for DYKS? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:02, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::Definitely going to nominate Urman and Harran (separate noms), don't know about the others yet. Probably Sahwat al-Khudr too. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 21:21, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::[[User:Al Ameer son]]: I don´t know how many days we have left for nominating [[Harran, as-Suwayda]]? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:40, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::::We're still good, I'll nominate it today. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 16:11, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

== Additions to your list ==

Three more IPs for your list:

121.219.241.132

110.148.120.64

121.219.16.227

Regards! --[[User:TU-nor|T*U]] ([[User talk:TU-nor|talk]]) 09:56, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:TU-nor]]: Thanks! Will add...I´m afraid they will not be the last... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

==Sahwat al-Khudr has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{ivmbox
| 1 = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Sahwat al-Khudr]], an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,<!--
-->has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Sahwat al-Khudr|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 01:13, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
|2=Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

==Urman, Syria has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{ivmbox
| 1 = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Urman, Syria]], an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,<!--
-->has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Urman, Syria|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 00:14, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
|2=Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Kindness Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Whew. I saw the post in ANI that led to the edit comments people were leaving for you! Here's some Wikiove to cancel it out. [[User:HappyValleyEditor|HappyValleyEditor]] ([[User talk:HappyValleyEditor|talk]]) 04:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
|}
: [[User:HappyValleyEditor]]: well, this much appreciated! I´m afraid that editing in "my" area (=Israel-Palestine), then this are the sort of attacks we learn to expect... Anyway, thanks, again! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 04:36, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

== ''Editor of the Week''&thinsp;: nominations needed! ==

The ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]]'' initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly ''Editor of the Week'' award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Recipient response|response from the honorees]] has been enthusiastic and thankful.

The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations?

Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Nominations|submitting your nomination for ''Editor of the Week'']] today!

Sent on behalf of [[User: Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven</em>''']]<small>[[User talk:Buster7|'''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk</em>''']]</small> for the ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]]'' initiative by [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 06:18, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Mdann52@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Buster7/WER_Nomination_mass_mailing&oldid=716376242 -->

==DYK for Sahwat al-Khudr==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#23 April 2016|23 April 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Sahwat al-Khudr]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Sahwat al-Khudr]]''' is named after an ancient [[Byzantine Empire|Byzantine]] church in the village dedicated to [[Saint George]], who is known to Muslims as "al-Khudr"?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Sahwat al-Khudr]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-13&end=2016-05-03&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Sahwat_al-Khudr Sahwat al-Khudr])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 11:11, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

== About a revision of yours from 2011 (yea..) ==

In the article about [[Givat Oz]] you made [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Givat_Oz&diff=405668962&oldid=366778063 this edit] in which you stated that Givat Oz was built the ruins of [[Khirbat Zalafa]] and cited Benny Morris. The problem is, Khirbet Zalafa is 24km away from Givat Oz (checked in Google Earth). Could you please double check that?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:42, 23 April 2016 (UTC)<br>
Also do you think that "<nowiki>{{reflist|25em}}</nowiki>" is better (as you [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zalafa&diff=716786398&oldid=716785224 did here])? Because me and my ADHD disagree.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:55, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:Bolter21]]; ah yeah, that was the time I inserted all the villages found in [[User:Huldra/Morris-list]]. The problem is: Morris only wrote what was the "closest" -48-village; he never actually looked at who owned that part of land. If you want to have that; you have to go to the [[Walid Khalidi]]- 1992-book. And Khalidi writes (on p. 568) that there are no Israeli settlements on [[Khirbat Zalafa]]-land. (One day, when I´m up to it; I will sit down and add all the settlements which are on -48-villages land, all according to Khalidi. One day...) I discussed the problem with -IRISZOOM above..see at "Listing of the depopulated Palestinian villages",
:About "<nowiki>{{reflist|25em}}</nowiki>" ...I have no strong feelings about it, if you want to change it back, please do. (But I am adding a few more citations, so it might become a long list...) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:02, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
::So I guess I can remove the sentence from the Givat Oz article? And personaly, without any connection to my contribution to Wikipedia, I chose to avoid as much "New Historians" material as I can. I am more of a [[Yoav Gelber]] person.
::And for now I will change the reflist because it really hurts my eyes and I don't think there's a problem in have a long list, Maybe splitting into two parallel lists if it becomes ''too'' long.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:10, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
:::I don´t think it should be removed from the Givat Oz article, (Morris is a RS, after all), but we should qualify the statement by adding Khalidi; i.e.. specifying that no Israeli settlements are on [[Khirbat Zalafa]]-land. What really should be updated, though, is the [[Khirbat Zalafa]]-article: move the Morris quote from "current localities" in the info-box, into the body of the article.
:::And if the present ref-list hurts your eye: don´t hesitate in changing it! Seriously...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:18, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

{{Re|Bolter21}} Folks, some mix-up here. Givat Oz was (and still is) about 1km from [[Zalafa]]. Nothing to do with [[Khirbat Zalafa]]. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 06:07, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
:Indeed, Givat Oz is built on the land previously belonged to the existing Zalafa. I think Benny Morris made a mistake.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 10:11, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
::Agree, and I´ve updated [[User:Huldra/Morris2-list]]. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:45, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Urman, Syria==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#27 April 2016|27 April 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Urman, Syria]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the first shots of the [[Great Syrian Revolt]] occurred at the village of '''[[Urman, Syria|Urman]]'''?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Urman, Syria]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-17&end=2016-05-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Urman,_Syria Urman, Syria])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 10:37, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Harran, as-Suwayda==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#27 April 2016|27 April 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Harran, as-Suwayda]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that an inscription in '''[[Harran, as-Suwayda|Harran]]''' dated from 568 CE is among the earliest known appearances of [[Arabic]] in [[Syria]]?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Harran, as-Suwayda]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-17&end=2016-05-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Harran,_as-Suwayda Harran, as-Suwayda])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 22:52, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

== Jewish press archive ==

I"d like to take this oppertunity to present you something I found. Maybe you are usuing it for decades and maybe you never heard about it. There's a website called "Historical Jewish Press" and it has an archive for old newspapers, including "The Palestine Post" which is in English and also "The Occident" which dates back 1840's. I assume that becuase you are editing alot about pre-1949 Palestine, it might be handy. Here's a link to the [http://www.jpress.nli.org.il/Olive/APA/NLI/#panel=search search tool] in English.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 13:01, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
:Hi, Thanks [[User:Bolter21]], I am aware of it. My 2 cents: It should only be used in articles to "back up"; that is, when these sources are actually used by scholars of the period. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:36, 2 May 2016 (UTC) 
::This is another opertunity to ask you a question. When searching for data about the Ma'ale Iron villages I came across this and one of the things there I found was very usefull. One from 22 May 1949, two days after the capturing of Musmus and it marks the end of the operation to enforce the armistice agreement with Jordan, It has a detailed description of Musmus including some names of nearby locations as well is millitary actions in the village during the operation. Do you think it shouldn't be included?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
:::The problem is: this is from one side in a war. There are so many scholarly sources for the 1948-war; I would suggest starting with those. Some might mention Musmus etc., [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:40, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
::::Appart from a war, there's just a description of Musmus. There are also some details from after the war about these villages. Still a no?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:46, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::Could you link it here? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:07, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::At this moment I can't but tommorow I could send and translate the entire thing. Unfortunately this spesific one is in Hebrew. Should I make myself a page where I translate important and reliable Hebrew sources? I thought about doing so with some information from the book "Independence versus Nakba" about the 1948 war. There is alot of data missed in the related articles. Could be subjected to Israeli-Palestinian collaboration project. What do you think?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I don´t read/write Hebrew, so if it is in that language, you would have to translate it. Who is the "Independence versus Nakba" book by? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:30, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
::::::::[[Yoav Gelber]]. --[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:46, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Gelber certainly is [[WP:RS]]. Apparently his 2004 book "Independence versus Nakba" is forthcoming in English; perhaps we should wait for the official English version? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:54, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
{{od}}
Oh, didn't know that. Until then, there are some important things not included in the war articles. One thing I thought about expanding was the Arab belligerents, which misses a lot of involved groups. Also I might have other things to translate. --[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:12, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Here is the source:
<blockquote>'''White flags on clay huts'''<br>
As we left the Lajun polce [station] at late morning hours and crossed Wadi Ara, the passage was desolate. Few white flags were planted on top of the clay huts of Khirbet-Bayada and on top of the Musmus village, which is set at the foot of a hill, adorned with carob and pistacia trees. [[Fellah]]s are working at the fields as usual.</blockquote>
This is the main sentence about the village. Here is the original paper if you want it..: [http://www.jpress.nli.org.il/Olive/APA/NLI/sharedpages/SharedView.Page.aspx?sk=5C27121F&href=AHR/1949/05/22&page=1].
:*Ok, what is the date of that report? We could possibly use the above report, at least for [[Baiada]], as we have little information about the history of the place (using "[[adobe]] huts" instead of "clay huts".) From what I can find: the villages are not mentioned in any of the Gelber or Morris-books I have. They are mentioned in [[Ilan Pappe]] "The ethnic cleansing of Palestine", however. Basically, Israel tried to conquer them several times late 1948, but failed each time. To say that they "captured" [[Musmus]] in April, 1949, sounds like re-writing history: they were given them under the [[1949 Armistice Agreements]].
:*In general: lots of old Jewish and/or Zionist sources are online, you can easily find lots and lots there about "the Arab belligerents." The problem is that the relevant, and complementing Arab sources are NOT online. (They reported on the "the Jewish belligerents.") Therefor, if you go and search those online archives, adding stuff; then you will end up with a very one-sided story. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:36, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

:::The date is 22 May 1949. According to an Israeli archive of all the battles in the 1947-9 war, Musmus was captured in 20 May. It clasfies it as a conquest with no battle. It also says Bayada was captured in 20 May and there's also a raid on Musheirifa on April 1948. The reason why the battles archive listed the capturing of the villages was becuase it was part of a millitary operation. According to the paper I sent, the operation was called "Operation Shortcut" (I can only assume it is based on the fact the 65 Highway was the reason for the transition of the land, but just only an asumption). I guess "IDF soldiers entered the village on 20 May" is clearer than "The village was captured on 20 May". I read the two reports from 22 May and non talked about "capturing" the village but langauge such as "the territory we accuired" while mentioning that Haifa was conquered. What do you think?
:::I also found a part in which the paper that quotes an official statement by the Israeli government about the annexation from 20 May 1949 (the day the soldiers entered the village). The statement is short and report that the withdrawal of the Jordanians and that "there are no incidents". I can translate it as well if there's a need.
:::And what I meant about hte belligerents was the involvment of two or three more groups in the war that are not listed. Groups such as the [[al-Najjada]]. I didn't see the Muslim Brotherhood in the articles when I first looked it up but now I found that it is mentioned in the [[1947 civil war in Palestine]]. The main thing that concerns me is the misinclusion of the Najjada which according to Gelber was involved in the first months. I am a person of infoboxes and I think it should be included in the article as well as in the infobox. That's something that needs more research, but I think I"ll put it aside for now. I have other things to edit.
::: I am planning to create or expand existing articles in the [[Basma]] local council and of course it's about time to expand the Ma'ale Iron article. I feel really bad that most of my sources for those villages are in hebrew but Ma'ale Iron is relatively new and it is barely even mentioned in English source which doesn't provide much usefull data. Sources such as the progress of the establishment of the council and a period in which the council ceased to exist for a shot while as well as an article by the [[State Comptroller of Israel]] on the council and as an article by the [[Ministry of Environmental Protection (Israel)]] about the floods and the restoration of infestructre of Ma'ale Iron's villages in 2006. All of this information is in Hebrew and I am starting to fear this is more than a problem. What do you think on that as well? (If I am talking too much, feel free to say. I am not the kind of person to ask too many questions and feel confortable about it..)--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:16, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
::::The thing is; I try to concentrate on the pre-1948-sources. I also have some sources on the 1948 war (but there are other editors here, who are much better than me on that subject.) On post-1948: I have hardly done a thing. And I don´t plan to do anything much, either....not as long as there is sooooo much pre-1948 -history not added. I´m particularly focused on adding the 1596-data (see [[User:Huldra/HA]]), Guerin (see [[User:Huldra/Guerin]]) and SWP-data. That other editors do work on post-1948 is fine, of course! ...but don´t expect much help from me, sorry. (And yes: the fact that many sources on post-48 history are either in Hebrew or Arabic (I speak neither) is of course also one reason I don´t see myself doing much work in that area...) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:39, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::Alright, and unfortunately the source I translated, as well is the majority of this archive are under strict copyrights policy so it doesn't matter...--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:31, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

== About [[Hevisaurus]]. No, seriously, this really is about that article. ==

Hey Huldra,<br/>
I should probably be pleased that [[Vice (magazine)|Vice]] has plagiarized [[Hevisaurus]] [http://noisey.vice.com/blog/meet-hevisaurus-from-finland here].
Could you possibly talk to me about this, and other related matters? <br/>
Pete AU aka --[[User:Shirt58|Shirt58]] ([[User talk:Shirt58|talk]]) 13:20, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
:Hi Pete, sorry, this is the first I have ever heard of [[Hevisaurus]]. Please email me, if there is more info? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:53, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

== Violent threats ==

Note that the edit summary, etc. from the other user is still available to administrators. It can be 'oversighted' so it isn't even available to admins, but I'm not able to do so. I'm sure you are aware of [[Wikipedia:Responding to threats of harm]]; I am not in a position to judge the seriousness of the issue here. If there's anything I can do for you on this particular issue, please ping me. You are more than welcome to remove this comment from your talk page, or ask me to rev-del it from your talk page, if you think that appropriate. --[[User:Yamla|Yamla]] ([[User talk:Yamla|talk]]) 13:33, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
:Thanks, I´ve been living with this since 2010, so I´m *quite* familiar with this (just look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&offset=&limit=100&page=User+talk%3AHuldra&type=&user= the deleted edits] from my talk-page). And yeah; I´m familiar with [[Wikipedia:Responding to threats of harm]]...and the WMF-staff working on this.
:Though, I must admit; being "reported" for making "violent threats" against others; well, that is a new one! I guess they hoped for finding a fool; (it has worked before!) Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 13:56, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Just a quick thanks for helping to deal with that Telstra IP (namely {{ip|137.147.134.67}}) {{p}} -- [[User:Samtar|'''sam'''''tar'']] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Samtar|talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Samtar|stalk]]</small></sup> 09:34, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
* [[User:Samtar]]: Oh, we are "old friends" see [[User:Huldra/Telstra-socks]]...and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Violent_threats this], Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 09:36, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
::With friends like these, who need enemies! Either way, thanks again for all the hard work and abuse you put up with, it is appreciated -- [[User:Samtar|'''sam'''''tar'']] <sup><small>[[User_talk:Samtar|talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Samtar|stalk]]</small></sup> 09:40, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

==Jisr Jindas and Yibna Bridge has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{ivmbox
| 1 = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Jisr Jindas and Yibna Bridge]], an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,<!--
-->has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Jisr Jindas and Yibna Bridge|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 12:01, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
|2=Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

== Question ==

How do you make those pages like [[User:Huldra/Guerin]] or [[User:Huldra/Sources]]? Thanks--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 13:57, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]], well, you already have [[User:Bolter21/Sources]]? (Though it is just a redir at the moment) Do you want to start any other sub-pages? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:07, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
::Oh I now get it, so everytime you move your sandbox it duplicate it and then you can make many others?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 09:23, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:Bolter21]], you don´t have to make it that difficult: you can make any sub-page you like ''directly''; just start [[User:Bolter21/example1]], [[User:Bolter21/example2]], or [[User:Bolter21/Guerin]], or any other name you like, ok? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 10:14, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::Thanks!--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 10:53, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

== Ping from meta ==

Hi, Did you ping me from meta? I got something then it disappeared, now I can't find anything. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:19, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
: [[User:Zero0000]], hm, only if you get the pings about a year late? ...in July, last year, "our old friend" discovered meta, and had some fun at my- and others- user-pages. I had to ask admins there for help, see [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat/Archives/2015-07#Please_protect_my_user-page here], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:29, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Yibna Bridge==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#20 May 2016|20 May 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Yibna Bridge]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that [[Mamluk Sultanate (Cairo)|Mamluk Sultan]] [[Baibars]] built two bridges near the towns of '''[[Jisr Jindas|Jindas]]''' and '''[[Yibna Bridge|Yibna]]''' in the outskirts of [[Ramla]], which have survived more than seven centuries?'' You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-05-10&end=2016-05-30&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Yibna_Bridge Yibna Bridge])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> —[[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 12:01, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

== Two questions re: Muslim Brotherhood ==
[[Image:Hausente.jpg|thumb|right|quack, quack!]]
<s>1) How do you figure an article about the Muslim Brotherhood is protected by WP:ARBPIA3#500/30)? It is not connected to the Arab-Israeli conflict.
2) Assuming it is protected, and assuming that I don't have the required 500/30, don't you agree that the content that I deleted is biased, opinionated, and not properly cited, so that it should be deleted?
[[User:WebofDeceit|WebofDeceit]] ([[User talk:WebofDeceit|talk]]) 01:41, 23 May 2016 (UTC)</s>

==Incomplete DYK nomination==

[[File:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Musheirifa Musmus Salim, Ma'ale Iron Zalafa, Ma'ale Iron]]''' at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] is not complete; see [[Template talk:Did you know#How to post a new nomination|step 3 of the nomination procedure]]. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{tl|db-g7}}, or ask a [[WP:Did you know/Admins|DYK admin]]. Thank you. <!--Template:DYK nomination needs transcluded--> [[User:DYKHousekeepingBot|DYKHousekeepingBot]] ([[User talk:DYKHousekeepingBot|talk]]) 11:26, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

== FYI ==

Hey Huldra, just stumbled upon Adam Zertal's third volume: ''The Manasseh Hill Country Survey: Volume 3: From Nahal ‘Iron to Nahal Shechem'' (2016). There's a limited preview of it on google books, see [https://books.google.com/books?id=XytzCwAAQBAJ&pg= link]. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 21:43, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Al Ameer son]] Thanks!! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:52, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

== A source I found ==

Hello Huldra. I found [https://www.academia.edu/2267938/The_Arab_Settlement_of_Late_Ottoman_and_Mandatory_Palestine_New_Village_Formation_and_Settlement_Fixation_1871-1948 this]. Now this is a thesis, made by Seth Frantzman, submitted for a degree of a Doctor of Philosophy, submitted to the Senate of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. The work was under the supervision of [[Ruth Kark]]. Seth Frantzman also wrote for [http://www.aljazeera.com/profile/seth-j-frantzman.html Al Jazeera] and [http://www.jpost.com/Author/Seth-J-Frantzman The Jerusalem Post]. The thesis it self is a large list of details about Palestinian villages in the 19th century-1948. It can be used somehow (Although I"ve yet to find something too big). Give it a look and tell me what you think? As it seems, according to [[WP:SCHOLARSHIP]], it is ok.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:48, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]]: Thanks, I have a copy, he is (or used to be) here on WP (see deleted article [[Seth J. Frantzman]], or [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seth J. Frantzman]]), he uploaded [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nebiyusha.jpg this], among other things. He is mostly interested in "newly" established Arab places, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:53, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

==DYK nomination of Musheirifa Musmus Salim, Ma'ale Iron Zalafa, Ma'ale Iron==
[[Image:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Musheirifa Musmus Salim, Ma'ale Iron Zalafa, Ma'ale Iron]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Musheirifa Musmus Salim, Ma'ale Iron Zalafa, Ma'ale Iron|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 22:29, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Musmus==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#22 June 2016|22 June 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Musmus]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Salem, Ma'ale Iron|Salem]]''' ''(pictured)'', '''[[Musmus]]''', '''[[Zalafa]]''', and [[Musheirifa]] are four of the Arab villages making up the Israel local council of [[Ma'ale Iron]]?'' You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-06-12&end=2016-07-02&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Musmus Musmus])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:01, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Salem, Ma'ale Iron==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#22 June 2016|22 June 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Salem, Ma'ale Iron]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Salem, Ma'ale Iron|Salem]]''' ''(pictured)'', '''[[Musmus]]''', '''[[Zalafa]]''', and [[Musheirifa]] are four of the Arab villages making up the Israel local council of [[Ma'ale Iron]]?'' You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-06-12&end=2016-07-02&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Salem,_Ma%27ale_Iron Salem, Ma'ale Iron])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:01, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Zalafa==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#22 June 2016|22 June 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Zalafa]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Salem, Ma'ale Iron|Salem]]''' ''(pictured)'', '''[[Musmus]]''', '''[[Zalafa]]''', and [[Musheirifa]] are four of the Arab villages making up the Israel local council of [[Ma'ale Iron]]?'' You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-06-12&end=2016-07-02&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Zalafa Zalafa])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:02, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

== You're most welcome ==

Thank you for the note. And thank you for your efforts on an article whose edit history is now a joke; you're doing God's work while the admins are asleep at the wheel. [[User:RunnyAmiga|RunnyAmiga]] ([[User talk:RunnyAmiga|talk]]) 23:06, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:RunnyAmiga]]: Thanks, and thanks for your work; PhilKnight finally blocked him. Normally the admins react quite quickly to the Telstra-vandal; he tends to make loads of death and rape threats (all those oversigted edits at [[User:Huldra/Telstra-socks]]), which makes him ''most'' unwelcome here, Cheers, and thanks again, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:11, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
::Given how easy it is to spot a contributor this bad, is there any concern with a block for just 48 hours? That behavior is just disgraceful, and it obviously isn't someone who suddenly appeared without ever having been here before. Does PhilKnight really believe this person might come back in two days and be a productive editor? [[User:RunnyAmiga|RunnyAmiga]] ([[User talk:RunnyAmiga|talk]]) 23:15, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
:::[[User:RunnyAmiga]]: I´m fine with him "only" given 48 hours; he will have changed his IP long before 48 hours is gone (he had another IP earlier today). The only way to stop him, is to range-block the whole Telstra/Optus-range (i.e., most of Australian IPs); that has actually been discussed, see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive899#Telstra.2C_Australia_IP_vandalism here]. That, or the police. I´m collecting archive.is-evidence for that.... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:20, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
::::Police? Wow, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:122.111.133.99&oldid=728520294 my initial warning] was even more off the mark than I thought. And I figured it was more of a symbolic block than anything, but that's another reason it sat so wrong with me. If, symbolically, admins skipped the warnings and the short blocks and went straight to three years or whatever, it would be a much more bold rejection of this behavior than 48 damn hours. But I don't want to horn in any more than I already have, so if you're not bothered by this, I can certainly move on. [[User:RunnyAmiga|RunnyAmiga]] ([[User talk:RunnyAmiga|talk]]) 23:31, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::[[User:RunnyAmiga]]: virtually every one of those IPs marked with @@ on [[User:Huldra/Telstra-socks]] have made a death or rape threat, so yeah; police. And in the beginning I welcomed him...just to have the threats less than an hour later.....And if you blocked an IP for, say, 3 years, it would not affect him ''the least''...it would only affect those ''other'' users who would happen to get assigned that IP after him. So, 48 hours is fine with me, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:40, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::Ctrl+F → "@@" gave me 24; not counting your explanatory text at the top, that's ''23'' different IPs have issued threats. And let's call it like it is: I need to not flail around for a better approach than what's already been going on because there's really no solution to the rape and death threats unless you figure out how to travel back in time to just before you identified yourself on here as female. [[User:RunnyAmiga|RunnyAmiga]] ([[User talk:RunnyAmiga|talk]]) 23:56, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::::[[User:RunnyAmiga]]: Well, I refuse to be intimidated. And there is no escape for the males....they get threats about having their wives raped, instead (which is hardly any more fun). I´ve been living with this since 2010, from various users. When you edit in the I/P area: you better get used to the fact that there are some pretty sick persons out there..... Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 00:04, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

== Molotov Cocktail ==

Hi Hulora. You and an IP seem to be in a content dispute over the use of Molotov cocktails on the Palestine/Israel conflict, which you have removed several times. Are you aware that the gallery shows a picture of an IDF soldier having discovered a molotove cocktail factory/stash. It seems odd to include an image, but disputing the inclusion of the text which justifies the image. [[User:IdreamofJeanie|IdreamofJeanie]] ([[User talk:IdreamofJeanie|talk]]) 08:54, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
:That IP is the [[User:Huldra/Telstra-socks]], who reverts me on sight, se his e.g. his reverts on [[Capture of Jisr ed Damieh]]. Besides he makes routinely death and rape threats: we are trying to make him feel ''extremely'' unwelcome on Wikipedia. Please see the paragraph above this, thanks, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 08:58, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
::thanks..[[User:IdreamofJeanie|IdreamofJeanie]] ([[User talk:IdreamofJeanie|talk]]) 09:00, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
== Jayce Salloum listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Jayce Salloum]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Jayce Salloum'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 July 8#Jayce Salloum|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Slashme|Slashme]] ([[User talk:Slashme|talk]]) 22:25, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

==Howdy neighbor==

<div style="float:right; margin-left:0.5em;" id="mp-dyk-img">
{{User Bibliographies2}}
</div>
Just wanted to say hi, and thanks for the DYK review. Your user page more than caught my eye. I love that [[:File:Carl Spitzweg 021.jpg|picture]]! I'm something of a book worm myself, and have been working on and creating bibliographies for some time. Would you be interested in joining [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Bibliographies|''WikiProject Bibliographies'']]? Currently I've been working on the [[Bibliography of George Washington]]. It's sort of a comprehensive bibliography, as the story of Washington's biographers and all the works devoted to him is a subject unto itself, imo. Likewise with [[Bibliography of Thomas Jefferson|Thomas Jefferson]]. See you around! -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 04:32, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

==DYK nomination of Silat al-Harithiya==
[[Image:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Silat al-Harithiya]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Silat al-Harithiya|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 10:05, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

==Intrigued==
Hello there! I was intrigued by [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/John_is_kill this trail of destruction]. Who on earth would leave a message, since deleted, on precisely those four pages? [[User:Peter Damian|Peter Damian]] ([[User talk:Peter Damian|talk]]) 19:21, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Peter Damian]]: Oh, absolutely nothing to be intrigued about; just you average dumb 13-to-the-dozen vandal. Have been around a bit; about you they said something about being “the most banned/blocked editor” on WP, or something like that; about Risker they said something about females…..and for Jimbo they speculated in the death of his oldest daughter (And they named her). (Can´t remember what they said about Sceptre).
:Btw, I´m “watching” the talk-pages of a few of the vandal-fighters (including the blocker here; Gogo Dodo), (as a small “payback”, as they have “cleaned up” on this page, and on pages I have edited countless of times): they take an absolute incredible amount of senseless vandalism like this. There are lots of silly people out there (not very old in years, I suspect); I guess you just don´t see them that often in "your field", cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:10, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
::Ah yes I think I know now. Hope you are well. [[User:Peter Damian|Peter Damian]] ([[User talk:Peter Damian|talk]]) 17:48, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

== Atlas of Palestine ==

Hi, I notice that the entire Atlas of Palestine is now online, see [http://www.plands.org/en/maps-atlases/atlases/the-atlas-of-palestine here]. The maps are harder to read than the originals at NLI, but the photo overlay can be useful sometimes. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 09:37, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Zero0000]]: Thanks! I´m copying them...as they they forever to open. And I agree, the maps are not too good, but tons of info, though, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:08, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Silat al-Harithiya==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#20 July 2016|20 July 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Silat al-Harithiya]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that [[Abdullah Yusuf Azzam]], the co-founder of [[Al-Qaeda]], came from the Palestinian village of '''[[Silat al-Harithiya]]'''?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Silat al-Harithiya]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-07-10&end=2016-07-30&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Silat_al-Harithiya Silat al-Harithiya])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:46, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

== Sourcing with books ==

Since you are editing many articles with books, I suggest taking a look at the sourcing format in [[1947–48 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine]], where the footnotes (or references) link to the name of the book in the Bibliography and make it easier for the readers. I might try and implement it in articles I edit.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 18:05, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]]: well, most of the sources I add are old, that is, they are fully on the net. I therefore typically link to ''each'' page. In the above article, Yoav Gelber (2006), p. 120, Yoav Gelber (2006), pp. 122–123, Yoav Gelber (2006), p. 127 ..etc, all link to ''the same'' reference (On another note: I see that it uses Lapierre & Collins a lot: bad, ''bad'' idea: they took everything people told them to be "the truth".) And even if the sources are not old, they often have quite a lot in "preview", on books.google.com, which can be linked to. (Typically; Morris, 2004, has a lot in preview). Of course, you could combine the two; the first part linking to the biblio, and the page-side linking directly to the page. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:09, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
==DYK==
Just wanted to let ya know I left some comments for your artciel [[Template:Did you know nominations/Qabatiya]]. [[User:EditorE|editorEهեইдအ😎]] 16:37, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

== Al-Mughayyir ==

From [http://rosetta.nli.org.il/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE6881133 the Guerin map at NLI], it seems that this place is "El Merhair" (Sam. II, p.17). [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:17, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Zero0000]], Thanks! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:16, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

== Archeology for Mishmar HaEmek ==

Ahoy. I understand absolutely nothing in Archeology, but I"ve seen that you do and you usually add information about excevations in villages. I tried to copycat that in [[Mishmar HaEmek]] but I fear I am doing it all wrong. Would you mind take a look?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]]: according to Khalidi, 1992, [[Mishmar HaEmek]] is not on a -48-village land, but it is about 1 km <s>north</s> south of [[Abu Shusha, Haifa]]. And about 10 Palestinian villages were ethnically cleansed during the [[Battle of Mishmar HaEmek]], (including Abu Shusha). Also, nothing is indicated there (≈1 km n. of Abu Shusha) on the SWP 8 map. About archaeology, [http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/report_detail_eng.aspx?id=1374&mag_id=117 this] can also be used. For archaeological periods, I usually use [[User:Huldra/Dauphin_%26_Finkelstein_%26_SWP#Finkelstein_eras|this page]] as a "short-cut", [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:58, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Bolter21]]: hmm that was ''south'' of Abu Shusha, ..and the Mandate era shows ''el-Ghaba et-Tahta'' there, and ''el-Ghaba et-Fuqa'' just S-E. In the 1922 census (p. [http://archive.org/stream/PalestineCensus1922/Palestine%20Census%20%281922%29#page/n35/mode/1up 33]) had 71+41 Muslim inhabitants + 1 Christian. (There was no Mishmar HaEmek, then)
::Also, it looks as if [[Abu Shusha, Haifa]] now qualifies as DYK... there is still work to do about the 1948-situation, though. Would you care to think about a hook? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:30, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
:::What do you mean by "not on a -48-village land"?. And I don't know who added the number of Palestinian villages depopulated, I thought about removing it because I wanted the section to focus on the kibbutz it self and not the battle but then decided to leave it. And the obvious hook would be about Jewish community, or the archeological foundings but I can try and find if there is something interesting about the village from Hebrew/Israeli scholarship, due to the proximity to one of the most famous kibbutz in Israel which has too much doccumented history. Also, at age 17 you were 100% Israeli supporter? It's hard to imagine that from someone citing Khaledi, not to mention I am 17 and not a 100% supporter of Israel..--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:57, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
:::I actually found alot of details in [[Zochrot]] which you probably know. There's the [http://zochrot.org/en/village/49492 English page] which containes no data (apart from dates and population) but there's also the [http://zochrot.org/he/village/49492 Hebrew version] which contains several paragrahps.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:04, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
:::It lists "Walid Khalidi, All that Remains, 1990, 568-569" as a source. You have it?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:05, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:Bolter21]]: The "48-village" refers to those villages which were depopulated in 1948, basically the villages here: [[Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus]]
::::And that is Walid Khalidi, All that Remains, '''1992''', and yes, I have it. (One of the first books I bought for Wikipedia!) About more personal stuff: I would preferably not discuss this in public, as I have certain "[[User:Huldra/Telstra-socks|fans]]", but would be more than willing to discuss it over email, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 00:03, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::Well if you have it (and I see you have used it in the article), you may have excluded some information. The Zochrot article has alot of information there and it says it cites Khaledi, although it seems like it also cites "History of Haganah book" which might be also in Khaledi. Either way, there is another paragraph of information from other books but they don't provide much information except the fact the village location is today in Park Menashe. I found an 8 page article in Hebrew but although there are mentiones to Abu Shusha, I don't think it will provide information beyond the battles that doesn't exist in Khaledi and Moris' books.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:33, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::[[User:Bolter21]] as I said above: "there is still work to do about the 1948-situation". There is a lot about what happened in 1948 in Khalidi, 1992,.....but I (almost never) use much of the 1948-stuff from Khalidi, 1992. That is because Khalidi, 1992, mostly based his 1948-stuff on Morris, 1987. I prefer to use Morris, 2004: lots of material which was not available to Morris in 1987 had become declassified by 2004, therefor the 2004-book is *much* better than the 1987-book. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:48, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::[[User:Bolter21]]: Actually, the whole of what Khalidi, 1992 writes, is linked at the bottom of the page, [http://web.archive.org/web/20071029134109/http://www.jerusalemiloveyou.net/spip.php?article134 here], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:42, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Qabatiya==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#27 July 2016|27 July 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Qabatiya]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that in 1596, half of the revenues from the [[Palestinian people|Palestinian]] town of '''[[Qabatiya]]''' went to the Tarabay [[Bey]] of [[Lajjun#Early_rule_and_the_Tarabay_family|Lajjun]]?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Qabatiya]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-07-17&end=2016-08-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Qabatiya Qabatiya])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 12:46, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Abu Shusha, Haifa==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#3 August 2016|3 August 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Abu Shusha, Haifa]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the depopulated [[Palestinian people|Palestinian]] village of '''[[Abu Shusha, Haifa|Abu Shusha]]''' in [[Haifa]] has been suggested as the location of the Roman town of ''Gaba Hippeon'', founded in 61 BCE?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Shusha, Haifa]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-07-24&end=2016-08-13&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Abu_Shusha,_Haifa Abu Shusha, Haifa])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 13:06, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

== A map of Palestine ==

Hello, I am currently working on a map of Palestine with village boundaries (for fun). Do you know of any way it can serve Wikipedia articles? Here's a [http://orig12.deviantart.net/dc03/f/2016/216/1/1/preview__safed_subdistrict_by_bolter21-dacktzu.png preview] (Safed subdistrict, also factually wrong in some places). The reason why I am asking is becuase this map takes a long time to make and I don't know if I should finish it or not.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:59, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]] That could absolutely be useful! It should be linked in [[Safad Subdistrict, Mandatory Palestine]], and then we should possibly link (more directly) to those Subdistrict-articles in each of the -48-villages. Say, in [[Abil al-Qamh]] we could (under "British Mandate era") say something about "until 1923 when it was incorporated into the [[British Mandate in Palestine]], part of the [[Safad Subdistrict, Mandatory Palestine|Safad Subdistrict]]." [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 00:19, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
::Hmm.. I thought about a more general usage of the entire map (which currently only has Safed, Acre and Nazarath distcircts), but fracturing the map into districts is definently east to make. There is a possibility to make a single map, where you can click on the villages via pushpins or clickable polygons, but that is too much work, considering the fact there were sone 1200 villages as far as I remember, but maybe I can give the maps their coordinates and the coordinates listed in the infobox would be also placed in the same place in the district map, I hope you get what I am saying. Until then, I"ll finish the map and fracture it. I thought about making a map of ethnicities/religious or population density but I think the latter requires listing of ''all'' villages' densities and thinking how the heck I choose the shades (like [http://www.cbs.gov.il/archive/imgs/shnaton_dak.gif here])--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:40, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

== Mishmar Emek region map ==

{{ping|Bolter21}} Hi, I added a map to [[Mishmar HaEmek]] and related places. Please let me know if you see any problems with it. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 03:35, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
:Not quite sure why is this on Huldra's talkpage (unless you are talking to both of us). I don't see any problems with it though my Zionist ass is not that fond with Nakba maps on Jewish villages.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 09:36, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
:: It is written to both of you as people interested in maps. Huldra gets an automatic ping so I just put one for you. I think historical maps are a basic need for the history of locations. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 11:43, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
::: I know, I just expressed my general opinion since I am a zionist ass.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 13:49, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
:::: Well, nobody is perfect. The other side of the coin is the identification (often strained) of pre-1948 sites with ancient Jewish sites that occurs in most articles on pre-1948 villages. My attitude is "let it all hang out" while maintaining source standard as high as possible. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 02:31, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|Zero0000}} No, I don´t. But this really brings up "present location" on [[Al-Ghubayya al-Tahta]], (and on [[Al-Ghubayya al-Fawqa]]), I wonder if Khalidi had mixed the two Al-Ghubayyas up? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:18, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

== For the Mandate's map ==

Where can I find all of the village details from the census of 1945? Couldn't find the whole thing in a single piece. By the way here's the blank version: [http://orig04.deviantart.net/25c9/f/2016/230/f/0/mandatory_palestine___local_boundaries__1945__by_bolter21-dacktzu.png link]--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 12:24, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]] It is now available at NLI:
:*{{cite book|title=Village Statistics, April, 1945 |url=http://web.nli.org.il/sites/nli/Hebrew/library/Pages/BookReader.aspx?pid=856390|author=Department of Statistics|year=1945|publisher=Government of Palestine}}
:Note that NLI-version does not have stable page-links (that is, if you, say want to link to p. 13, you cannot do that. Instead you can link to a server which provides links to each page, see e.g. p. [http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/yabber/census/VSpages/VS1945_p13.jpg 13].)
:These days I normally link both to the NLI original, and the Hadawi-version. This because the Hadawi version is much easier to read. See the above DYK, [[Abu Shusha, Haifa]], as an example, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 12:44, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks. I figured out, you can just zoom with your browser (if you are using Chrome, so simply click Ctrl and scroll down or up with your mouse wheel). By the way, do you have any idea what's the deal with the Be'rsheva district? It seems it has no village boundaries and not only for the tribal units, but also for Beersheba and the Jewish settlements.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 17:14, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
:::[[User:Bolter21]]: Well, I use Safari, I just click once to expand it (if I want to expand it more, I use "cmd +", and scroll it up/down by using two fingers on the screen).
:::As for Be'rsheva district (p. [http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/yabber/census/VSpages/VS1945_p33.jpg 33]); that was basically beduin country. You can read about what [[Sami Hadawi]] wrote about it; Hadawi, pp. [http://www.palestineremembered.com/download/VillageStatistics/6-Beersheba%20Sub%20District/Page-035.jpg 35], [http://www.palestineremembered.com/download/VillageStatistics/6-Beersheba%20Sub%20District/Page-036.jpg 36]; [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:26, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Another question you might have an answer to. In the religious demographics in the 1945 census, apart from Druze and Samaritans, what can "others" refer to?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 18:34, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
:I assume also that it could refer to [[Bahá'í Faith|Bahá'í]]. (Though virtually all the places I recall seeing with a large "other" category, have been Druze places,) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:22, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
::{{Re|Bolter21}} Perhaps the meaning in 1945 was the same as in 1931. The 1931 census report says that "others" means "Druzes, Bahais, Samaritans and Agnostics". The last group numbered about 400, mostly in Jaffa. I wonder who they were. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 05:26, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey. I was bored today, so I created an article for [[Beit Qad]]. In an Hebrew source, it said Beit Qad is mentioned in an Ottoman census from the 16th century, which reminded me about the details you"ve added about [[Salem, Ma'ale Iron]] so maybe you can expand it.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:31, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
: Bayt Qad, p160. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:50, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::-[[User:Bolter21]]: done. I have no idea as to which source that "an Ottoman census from the 16th century as a hamlet with 7 tax payers" refers to. Does it say? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:53, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::It pretty much says exactly what I wrote there. No mention to which census or what year.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:09, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Bolter21]]: Ok, then I assume that source is pretty inaccurate. For one thing; all the Ottoman [[daftar]]s I have seen referred to from that period uses Hana/mujjared (Household/ bachelors) for those taxed, using "tax payers" must be a simplification. On another note: should we go for DYK? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:16, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::Oh maybe it is my poor translation. The article say "חייבי מס" which according the google translate means "Tax receivables", instead of "tax payers". Maybe this makes more sense?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:24, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::[[User:Bolter21]]: eh, no. "Tax receivables" to me indicate those who *get* the revenues...not those who are taxed. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:26, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::The sentence from the source literally translates to "Beit Qad was mentioned in a tax list from the end of the 16th century as a hamlet with 7 [word for: people who are obligated to pay tax]."--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:35, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::::[[User:Bolter21]]: Ok, I suspect it is copied from one of books of [[Bernard Lewis]], or something like that. Not many people have actually looked at ''and'' published the results from those daftars....[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:41, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::[[User:Bolter21]]: In one of Lewis's articles, he says that in Palestine only heads of households were taxed, even though the law allowed all adult males to be taxed. So it sounds like this is essentially equivalent to the unit "households" that we have been using for data from Hütteroth. I didn't manage to locate the source for "7" compared to the "20" given by Hütteroth. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 23:12, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

== Rachel's tomb ==

Hi, There's a book on buildings or architecture that has a plan of Rachel's tomb with Montefiore's antechamber labeled "mosque". I thought it was Petersen's "Gazetteer of Buildings in Muslim Palestine" but now I can't find it there. I'm pretty sure that the book is by someone senior. Do you know where it is? [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 00:22, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
: Never mind, it is Pringle, ''Churches'', vol 2. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:38, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
::Yepp. pp. [https://books.google.ca/books?id=2Y0tA0xLzwEC&pg=PA176 176]-178, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:34, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

== Autopatrolled ==

{{ {{#ifeq:|{{void}}|void|Error:must be substituted}}|Autopatrollergiven}}
[[File:Wikipedia Autopatrolled.svg|right|80px]]
Hi Huldra, I just wanted to let you know that I have [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=User%3A{{PAGENAMEU}} added] the "{{mono|autopatrolled}}" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on [[WP:NPP|new page patrollers]]. For more information on the patroller right, see [[Wikipedia:Autopatrolled]]. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 19:06, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
: [[User:BU Rob13]]: Thanks! Much appreciated, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:26, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

These articles [[Jaburara]], [[Karajarri]] etc are nice to create. Potentially there are 600 of them to bring up from stubs. It's shocking and yet the mass of stuff on them is incredibly rich. I was thinking a few months ago along the lines, 'I should try and do for the aborigines of downunder what Huldra did and does for Palestinian villages. I held off though. It would mean a decade of work (1 a weekx52x10), which is a bit optimistic in terms of my desired lifeline! Exactly the same situations, with the slight, immense difference that there you can edit in peace, and not get swarmed every other edit. Thanks for taking a sisterly glance over it, dear inspirer(ess)![[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:56, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Nishidani]] well, I´m glad you didn´t mind me wikistalking you! ...and I am delighted to have inspired you.....but I hope you stay in the Palestinian sector......
:As you might have noticed, I have taken the last 2-3 months "off" Palestine, trying to clean up the Lebanese villages (which were mostly in a terrible state...): which has been good: I don´t know if you have noticed; but it seems to me that each summer some extremely pro-Israeli editors turn up? I know the settlers council had courses for potential Wikipedia -editors before; I wonder if they still give them?
:Perhaps a compromise? You could edit the Indigenous Australian people from, say, the summer to the late autumn (They don´t last that long....do they...), then return to the Palestinian subjects? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:49, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge]] ==

Hi, you and Al Ameer Son would really be welcome to add the articles you do to this. Hopefully we'll attract more editors to working on the countries which badly need the attention too.♦ [[User:Dr. Blofeld|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#aba67e">''Dr. Blofeld''</span>]] 08:48, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
: [[User:Dr. Blofeld]], thanks for the invite, but ...well, not to rain on your parade, but I am a bit sceptical of these recruitment drives (at least for "my area", the ME.). I have just spend the last 2-3 months cleaning up on the Lebanese villages/templates: it was a complete mess: 8-9 villages had ''two'' articles for the same village! And the problem is that English Wikipedia is seen as "the mother of all wikis"; so lots of "local" wikipedias just copy from en.wp. ...which means that I have had to clean up on say, nn.wp, fr.wp, pl.wp etc....
:*What frightens me, is the prospect of more editors making more shitty articles here on en.wp, which will then be "exported" to other wikis. (I have virtually made ''no'' new articles for 10 years, just made about 50 Lebanese village articles these last 3 months, but ONLY because I have first-class historical sources!)
:*I noted on the Lebanese villages/templates, that there were several that you started in 2008-2009.....and then ''nobody'' (except bots) had touched them since then.....
:*Yeah, it would be useful to have "full" templates for each district, with ''all'' the villages/towns listed..... (I have spent a lot of time on [[Template:Jezzine District]], [[Template:Sidon District]], [[Template:Tyre District]], [[Template:Bint Jbeil District]], [[Template:Marjeyoun District]], [[Template:Hasbaya District]] and [[Template:Nabatieh District]] lately...) but the problem is when what constitutes a "place" (=village, town) in not universally agreed on... In Lebanon one does not even agree about the number of Governorates!!! So how the heck do you make a "full" template when this is the case??
:.....(and there is still 150+ of the -48-villages left to de-stub ...(yeah, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus&action=history I´m working on it!!]))
:*In short; I will probably continue doing what I have been doing for 11+ years: expanding the Palestinian & Israeli, and southern Syria and Lebanon villages and town articles. ;-) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:16, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
OK, I've removed the bits about settlements. This is essentially a quality improvement drive, not a quest to create minor stubs for every village. If you'd seen the work I've done in the last 4 years you'd know that! Let's try to produce something of quality anyway, and get those unedited villages edited :-)♦ [[User:Dr. Blofeld|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#aba67e">''Dr. Blofeld''</span>]] 22:20, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
:: [[User:Dr. Blofeld]], actually, I find the templates (like [[Template:Amasya District]] ) ''extremely'' useful... (the way I spotted those "duplicate villages" in Lebanon was almost always with the help of templates). But I don´t think you can set a ''fixed'' rule (for the whole of Asia).... as the info available + the definition of places varies so greatly. Say, if we started from scratch on Lebanon, today, I would use the localiban-site, and make a (red-linked) place for each place mentioned there. So for [[Template:Nabatieh District]] I would use [http://www.localiban.org/rubrique540.html Municipalities Nabatiyeh District], and make 39 links, starting with [[Aabba]] (using the spelling it use), ending in [[Zibdine (Nabatiyeh)]]. As long as there is '''a fixed''' standard..... Then you avoid having to make edits like [https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Raboueh&diff=prev&oldid=130479070 this] on fr.wp (they had copied the mistake on en.wp: using two articles for the same village...in the template!)
::This will of course be different from country to country. I would start getting people who were interested in one particular country agreeing on ''which'' (if any!!) "standard" reference they will use. If you can get that, then a lot has been achieved. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:46, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Glad you agree, that's why I created it, and actually it got us some new articles on landmarks! I'm going to set up [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle East/The 1000 Challenge]] if there is interest which can function as a feeder for the wider Asian one, so narrower focus and easier to work and then every 100 articles or so it can be "tipped" into the main Asian one but stay as a challenge. I'd be grateful if you and a few of your colleagues here could "control" that one and nurture it, put up articles needing work, missing entries etc. It would be a way to get people working on countries like Iraq and Oman too, which I know {{u|Al Ameer son}} mentioned. That OK?♦ [[User:Dr. Blofeld|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#aba67e">''Dr. Blofeld''</span>]] 12:49, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

==Beit Qad has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{ivmbox
| 1 = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Beit Qad]], an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,<!--
-->has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Beit Qad|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 12:01, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
|2=Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

== kan du hjälpa mig ==

[[Unduyamo]] The map size. Can it be reduced and remain legible?[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 17:25, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
:I can try and remake this map.. Not that I have anything better to do right now..--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 20:46, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
:Though I really can't understand what is written in most of the texts..--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 20:51, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Nishidani]]: I have the same problem as [[User:Bolter21]]: the uploaded file is not of a great quality (and I cannot manage to find where the original file is?) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:31, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
:::Thanks Stav, very decent of you to chip in, and Huldra also. All I really need is that map outline from top left Eborac Island/Cap York with Evans Bay,Ida Island, Muddy Bay Shallow Bsy, the Albany Island, Albany Pass,Stover Bay, Somerset Bay, (Albany Island glossed with Pabaju) down to Fly Point which is on the corner before the mapline on the right turns south into Fresh Water Bay
:::All the rest is bullshit. How long would it take to do that, i.e. take the geographic lines, put in the names along the cost, and on the blank beneath the coast line write 'Djagaraga/Dugang territory' for the area from Cape York (high left) to Fly Point extreme right? If it's gunna take more than an hour fagedaboudid. I think in the long term, and can perhaps get round to this when I find more decent maps for that area. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:51, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:Nishidani]]: making new maps is not something I have done, but I know both [[User:Bolter21]] and [[User:Zero0000]] have..... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:04, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::Surely this bad quality draft is an insult (if not to you, then to me), but is that about what you need? [https://i.gyazo.com/49cf15dc9eec23d0b33ed64d9241ef46.png screenshot].--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:47, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
:::You're a fucking credit to Wikipedia,Bolter. That's just about perfect, save Somerset Lookout should read Fly Point. If you could put 'Djagaraga/Dugang territory' in the yellow bit running along below the coastland, it would be perfect. I'm in your debt, deeply. If you could upload it on the the Djagarana page, that's it. Well done.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 23:10, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
:::Thanks. Well obviously I will re-make that with an actual satelite picture (cause this was made by the old notebook map), maybe include rivers and also use a different font from what I"ve used for the last 11 years, since the days of Windows98. I"ll try to follow the instruction you gave as well as the "instructions" in the aritlce it self. Unless Zero0000 steals the job until I"ll be done.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:20, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
::::'use a different font from what I"ve used for the last 11 years' - doing some elementary arithmetic I still remember, Bolter, that means that you first started at 7. The major feature of my life at that age was a snotty nose, being laughed at for paying threepence for a penny I was looking for, watching tadpoles in ditches, eating grubs and raw potatoes stolen from fields. The only sign of intelligence I had at 7 was yawning at religion, inflexibly walking out of the church as mass began and parents' thoughts were focused on prayer, to climb up trees and enjoy the play of sunlight on the leafage, until I heard the tinkle of a communion bell, and snuck back in so I wouldn't be missed as my folks turned round. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:15, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

==DYK for Beit Qad==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#11 November 2016|11 November 2016]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Beit Qad]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the modern Palestinian village of '''[[Beit Qad]]''' is associated with the biblical locality of Beth Ekad, mentioned in the [[Books of Kings|Book of Kings]] as the site of a massacre?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Beit Qad]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-11-01&end=2016-11-21&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Beit_Qad Beit Qad])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 01:12, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

== [[WP:ACE2016|ArbCom Elections 2016]]: Voting now open! ==

{{Ivmbox|Hello, Huldra. Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2016|2016 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2016/Candidates|the candidates' statements]] and submit your choices on '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/399|the voting page]]'''. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
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== Burj, -al listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Burj, -al]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Burj, -al'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 December 1#Burj, -al|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> — [[User:Gorthian|Gorthian]] ([[User talk:Gorthian#top|talk]]) 22:50, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

==Merry Christmas==
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:#fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">[[image:Christmas_tree_sxc_hu.jpg|70px|left]]


[[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish computer'']] ([[User talk:Rubbish computer|''HALP!'']]: [[Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer|''I dropped the bass?'']]) is wishing you a [[Mary Poppins|Merry]] [[Christmas]]! This greeting (and season) promotes [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|WikiLove]] and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a [[Christmas|Merry Christmas]], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year! <br />

''Spread the cheer by adding {{tls|Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.''
</div> --[[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish computer'']] ([[User talk:Rubbish computer|''HALP!'']]: [[Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer|''I dropped the bass?'']]) 18:34, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Rubbish computer]]; thank you very much, and the same to you! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:35, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

== Resolutions by the Security Council are legally binding. ==

Well, it's a bit early for Christmas presents, but I think this one is the best I got since I found, on waking up aged 4 on Christmas day, a [[golliwog]] in my bed. Of course, it means that things will only get worse after the Inauguration. Still, when everything else goes to wrack and ruin, a symbolic gesture, with some legal currency, is better than a kick up the arse. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:31, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:Nishidani]]; Undoubtedly it will. (Get worse, after the Inauguration, that is.) Stay safe, and have a peaceful holiday season, best wishes, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:55, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
::PS as for the future, I feel that old saying "[[May you live in interesting times]]", surely has been granted us?
:Predictably the New Jerk Tines spun it thus:'While the measure will have no practical impact on the ground, it was regarded as a major rebuff to Israel that could increase its isolation over the paralyzed peace process with ''the Palestinians, who have sought to establish their own state on territory held by Israel''.' Sigh. That signals that the Palestinians are squatters. The definition of a [[squatter]] is someone who seeks to establish their own home on property held by others.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:42, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
::Well, as I wrote [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FBana_Alabed&type=revision&diff=755212193&oldid=755141704, elsewhere], I am flabbergasted that the NYT can write as much garbage as they can, about the ME. Oh, and that ''anyone'' thinks their writing about the ME is worth 2 cents... Those WMD in Iraq, anyone? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:55, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

== Arbitration motion regarding ''Palestine-Israel articles'' ==

The Arbitration Committee has resolved by [[Special:Permalink/756797149#Motion:_ARBPIA|motion]] that:
{{Ivmbox|1=The [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#General_1RR_restriction|general 1RR restriction]] in the [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles|Palestine-Israel articles case]] is modified to read as follows:

:Editors are limited to one revert per page per day on any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. <ins>In addition, editors are required to obtain consensus through discussion before restoring a reverted edit.</ins> Reverts made to enforce the [[WP:ARBPIA3|General Prohibition]] are exempt from the revert limit. Also, the [[WP:3RRNO|normal exemptions apply]]. Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked without warning by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.}}
For the Arbitration Committee, '''[[User:L235|Kevin]]''' (<small>aka</small> [[User:L235|L235]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[User talk:L235#top|t]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]]) 22:38, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
: Discuss this at: '''[[Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding Palestine-Israel articles]]'''

== ''Editor of the Week'' seeking nominations (and a new facilitator) ==

The ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]]'' initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly ''Editor of the Week'' award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Recipient response|response from the honorees]] has been enthusiastic and thankful.

The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations?

Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Nominations|submitting your nomination for ''Editor of the Week'']] today!

<small>In addition, the WikiProject is seeking a new facilitator/coordinator to handle the logistics of the award. Please contact {{noping|L235}} if you are interested in helping with the logistics of running the award in any capacity. Remove your name from [[User:Buster7/WER Nomination mass mailing|here]] to unsubscribe from further EotW-related messages. </small> Thanks, '''[[User:L235|Kevin]]''' (<small>aka</small> [[User:L235|L235]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[User talk:L235#top|t]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]]) via [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 05:19, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
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==Happy New Year Huldra!==
<div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em;{{round corners}}" class="plainlinks">[[File:Moscow State University fireworks.jpg|left|145px]][[File:Happy new year 01.svg|115px|right]]
{{paragraph break}}
{{Center|{{resize|179%|'''''[[New Year|Happy New Year]]!'''''}}}}
'''Huldra''',<br>Have a prosperous, productive and wonderful New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.</div>

--[[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish computer'']] ([[User talk:Rubbish computer|''HALP!'']]: [[Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer|''I dropped the bass?'']]) 12:37, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
:: {{to|Rubbish computer}} Thank you very much! And a Happy New Year to you, too! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:23, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

:::Thanks! [[User:Rubbish computer|''Rubbish computer'']] ([[User talk:Rubbish computer|''HALP!'']]: [[Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer|''I dropped the bass?'']]) 23:11, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

== Date of Depopulation ==

Although it may be too late, I would suggest looking at Morris' dates more cautiously. It seems that his list mixes date of depopulation with date of occupation or destruction. In a few places I saw that the articles give a date for the depopulation, but in Gelbers book, it is described that the villegers already left the village and in the date given by Morris it was either occupied or destroyed.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 01:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:Back in, eh, I think it was in late 2009, I went through all the -48 -villages, found at the start of the Morris, 2004, "revisited" book, (and listed in [[User:Huldra/Morris-list]]), and added the Morris ref to the infobox. Remember, back then many of the 48 -village -articles didn't have ''a single'' ref!! Now, when adding more of what Morris says, and other sources, I'm sometimes bewildered by the choice that Morris has made for "Reason of Depopulation" or "Date of Depopulation".. However, that is no reason to remove it, rather to add more info.
: "the date given by Morris it was either occupied or destroyed", yeah, that seems about right. Remember Morris gets his data from the Israeli archives, typically daily reports from the different Yishuv/Haganah commanders; they would report on what ''they'' saw/found/did.
: As for the Gelber source you are adding, ([[Yoav Gelber]], ''Independence Versus Nakba''; Kinneret–Zmora-Bitan–Dvir Publishing, 2004, {{ISBN|965-517-190-6}})... I cannot find ''Independence Versus Nakba''; in English, and the [https://books.google.com/books?id=eqis35_zcl8C&dq=isbn:9655171906&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjovYfwpvHRAhWFPZoKHY94DF4Q6AEIITAA ISBN 965-517-190-6] indicate a book in Hebrew? (And [[Kinneret Zmora-Bitan Dvir]] is an Israeli publisher). Is this the Hebrew version of his 2006 [https://books.google.com/books?id=lpRtAAAAMAAJ Palestine, 1948: War, Escape and the Emergence of the Palestinian Refugee Problem]? If so, I think we should use the English source, and not the Hebrew one.
: And yeah, lots of the 48 -village -articles are in a bad state....I'm working on it....(We used to be three editors doing a lot of work on these villages; Tiamut, Al Ameer son, and myself. However, lately Tiamut is on an extended leave (RL, and all that) and Al Ameer son is working on other stuff). So progress is slow.... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 11:48, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
::I didn't meant to delete, just to state something I saw. I didn't figure out the changes were made more than 7 years ago. And the Gelber source I am using is in Hebrew indeed, but I don't have the English version, nor it is available on the internet. The Hebrew version might be more detalied. because from the first chapter to the references, there are more than 450 pages, while the English version as a whole is only 399 pages, including, I assume, the notes and sources.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 12:45, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Well, the 48 -village -articles were the first group of articles I did major work on, back in 2005-1010. (As I have told you before, the Khalidi, 1992 book was the first book I bought because of Wikipedia editing....) I only started on the West Bank villages and Arab Israeli places after 2011. And I think I will change it to the English Gelber version, then (which I have a hard copy of). Note that many of these villages got depopulated ''many'' times, read e.g. [[Az-Zakariyya]]. Just checked one example, [[Dayr Muhaysin]]: Gelber, 2006, p. 77 (English version) says clearly that the December 1947 evacuation was a ''temporary'' one. From Gelber, 2006, pp. 87, 100 (English version) it is clear the villagers returned (and then moved out again before the April 1948 fighting), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 14:53, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
::::In the Hebrew version it also says in an earlier part that the British demanded after Operation Nachshon that the Jewish forces will withdraw from Deyr Muhaysin becuase it was on the British evacuation route from Jerusalem to "Gaza, Rafah, Sinai and the Suez Canal", and the Hebrew version said that "the village was evacuated" not "depopulated". It didn't say it was temporary, but at least in Hebrew, "evacuated" usually means temporary. In my comment I referred to Wa'arat al-Sarris and not Dayr Muhaysin. Anyway I wrote the comment on 4AM before I went to sleep without thinking much, but I am happy that we had the conversation in order to improve the editing. If I add information from the book I have, should I make a translated quote in the reference?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 15:36, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::Well, actually, the Gelber, 2006, p. 87, (English version) is about the British taking over the village [[Dayr Muhaysin]], replacing the Haganah fighters with the British, but that was in the spring of 1948. (And I haven't even looked at what Morris writes about it). And I cannot see that Gelber mention [[Wa'arat al-Sarris]]. Just add whatever info you have; I'll add/translate whatever I have of info. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:35, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::So as it seems, both books contain overlapping content (like the word "fiasco" concerning the [[1947–48_Civil_War_in_Mandatory_Palestine#The_Battle_of_Ramat_Yohanan_and_the_defection_of_the_Druze|battle of Ramat Yohanan]], as well is information missing in both books. And I already checked in Birth Rivisited and I don't remember seeing much to be added on both villages, but obviously for most other villages there may be.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 20:17, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Ok, I have expanded [[Dayr Muhaysin]], it actually now pass a DYK check....if you care to nominate it. (I'm leaving early Saturday, and won't be back for a few weeks, ...I really should be packing, and not editing Wikipedia....) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:51, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::But what would be a good fact from it?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 12:36, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::...that the name of the depopulated [[Palestinians|Palestinian]] village of [[Dayr Muhaysin]] means "the [[monastery]] of good deeds"?
:::::::::...that the [[Palestine Exploration Fund]]'s ''Survey of Western Palestine'' suggested that the depopulated [[Palestinians|Palestinian]] village of [[Dayr Muhaysin]] was a [[Crusader states|Crusader]] village, held as a [[fief]] of the [[Church of the Holy Sepulchre]]?
::::::::: I really should have found the [[Edward Robinson (scholar)|Edward Robinson]] and [[Charles William Meredith van de Velde|van de Velde]] references (mentioned by Socin), but it is extremely unlikely that I have the time, sorry, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:39, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::Nah that's enough I'll submit it on your behalf. Enjoy your [reason of not being here for a few weeks].--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:17, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

==Dayr Muhaysin has been nominated for Did You Know==
{{ivmbox
| 1 = Hello, Huldra. <!--
--><!-- empty --><!--
-->[[Dayr Muhaysin]], an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,<!--
-->has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] as part of {{DYK blue}}. You can see the hook and the discussion <!--
-->'''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Dayr Muhaysin|here]]'''. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. [[User:APersonBot|APersonBot]]&nbsp;([[User talk:APersonBot|talk!]]) 12:01, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
|2=Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
}}<!-- Template:DYKNom -->

==DYK for Ni'ilya==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#13 February 2017|13 February 2017]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Ni'ilya]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the former Palestinian villages of '''[[Ni'ilya]]''' and '''[[al-Sawafir al-Gharbiyya]]''' appeared in the Ottoman [[Defter|census]] of 1596?'' You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2017-02-03&end=2017-02-23&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Ni%27ilya Ni'ilya])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Mifter|Mifter]] ([[User talk:Mifter|talk]]) 15:46, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

==DYK for Al-Sawafir al-Gharbiyya==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#13 February 2017|13 February 2017]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Al-Sawafir al-Gharbiyya]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the former Palestinian villages of '''[[Ni'ilya]]''' and '''[[al-Sawafir al-Gharbiyya]]''' appeared in the Ottoman [[Defter|census]] of 1596?'' You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2017-02-03&end=2017-02-23&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Al-Sawafir_al-Gharbiyya Al-Sawafir al-Gharbiyya])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Mifter|Mifter]] ([[User talk:Mifter|talk]]) 15:46, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

==DYK for Dayr Muhaysin==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#14 February 2017|14 February 2017]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Dayr Muhaysin]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the [[Palestine Exploration Fund]]'s ''Survey of Western Palestine'' suggested that the depopulated Palestinian village of '''[[Dayr Muhaysin]]''' was a [[Crusader states|Crusader]] village, held as a [[fief]] of the [[Church of the Holy Sepulchre]]?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Dayr Muhaysin]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2017-02-04&end=2017-02-24&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Dayr_Muhaysin Dayr Muhaysin])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 03:30, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

== Mausoleum of Abu Huraira ==

I gather you wrote [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Article drafts/Mausoleum of Abu Huraira|this article]]; I've left a couple of messages on the talk page. It's good; it could do with being posted to the mainspace, I think. Regards, [[User:Moonraker12|Moonraker12]] ([[User talk:Moonraker12|talk]]) 21:28, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

== Custom Watchlists ==

[[Wikipedia:User_scripts#Watchlist]] [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup><font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font></sup> 17:14, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

== Block notification ==
<div class="user-block" style="min-height: 40px">[[File:Balance icon.svg|40px|left|alt=]]To enforce an [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|arbitration]] decision you have been '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing for a period of '''48 hours'''. You are welcome to edit once the block expires; however, please note that the repetition of similar behavior may result in a longer block or other sanctions. <p>If you believe this block is unjustified, please read the [[Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]] (specifically [[Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks#Arbitration enforcement blocks|this section]]) before appealing. Place the following on your talk page: <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. --><span style="font-size:97%;">{{tlx|unblock|2=reason=Please copy my appeal to the &#91;&#91;WP:AE{{!}}arbitration enforcement noticeboard&#93;&#93; or &#91;&#91;WP:AN{{!}}administrators' noticeboard&#93;&#93;. ''Your reason here OR place the reason below this template.'' &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;}}</span>. If you intend to appeal on the arbitration enforcement noticeboard I suggest you use the [[Template:Arbitration enforcement appeal#Usage|arbitration enforcement appeals template]] on your talk page so it can be copied over easily. You may also appeal directly to me ([[Special:EmailUser/WJBscribe|by email]]), before or instead of appealing on your talk page.&nbsp; <div class="sysop-show"><hr/><p style="line-height: 90%;"><small>'''Reminder to administrators:''' In May 2014, ArbCom adopted the following [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures#Standard provision: appeals and modifications|procedure instructing administrators]] regarding Arbitration Enforcement blocks: "No administrator may modify a sanction placed by another administrator without: (1) the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or (2) prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" [in the procedure]). Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped."</small></p></div></div><!-- Template:uw-aeblock -->
I have blocked you from editing for 48 hours for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank&type=revision&diff=771503950&oldid=771468333 this edit] to [[Jordanian occupation of the West Bank]] in which you restored a reverted edit (the removal of a map from the article's infobox) without obtaining prior consensus. This action was in breach of the sanctions currently in place in this topic area.
You were specifically informed of the restriction on restoring reverted edits without consensus above, see [[User talk:Huldra#Arbitration motion regarding Palestine-Israel articles]]. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User:WJBscribe|WJBscribe]] [[User talk:WJBscribe|(talk)]]</strong> 11:15, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

{{unblock reviewed | 1=Please copy my appeal to the [[WP:AE|arbitration enforcement noticeboard]] or [[WP:AN|administrators' noticeboard]] *Whaw. [[User:WJBscribe]]: Yes, I was definitely aware of the editing restriction, I requested it! But it was put in place because if *one* newish editor made changes to an article, then it took *two* editors to return to status quo. It was never meant to keep everything in status quo until ''everyone'' agreed!! If this is the interpretation, then we can just shut down, as there will never be agreement about everything in the IP area. If you look at the talk page, you will see ''many'' editors from all sides discussing. To be blocked for '''1''' edit is a new interpretation, something I definitely was not aware of. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 14:50, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *I have read "In addition, editors are required to obtain consensus through discussion before restoring a reverted edit"...as meaning that the *same* editor cannot restore one of his own reverted edits......but I never took it to mean that anyone else could not restore it either!! ......and I don't think anyone else in the area have interpreted them like that, either (nobody reported me..) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 15:02, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *[[User:WJBscribe]]: I identify as female on my user page, and would appreciate to be referred to as "she", not "he". *Also, I have participated on the talk pages for ages, besides the one edit WJBscribe links to on 21 March, also 20 March, 19 March, 19 March etc. *And I repeat, I have ''not'' understood [[User talk:Huldra#Arbitration motion regarding Palestine-Israel articles]] to mean that no one could reinsert an edit before ''everyone'' agreed. If this is what it means, then [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=756797149#Motion:_ARBPIA I got a lot more than I asked for], back in December: ''That one should not be allowed to add, or remove, the same material twice in a 24 hour period.'' [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 15:44, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *[[User:WJBscribe]]: You wrote, about Oncenawhile: "That makes me hesitate about a block, because I generally don't think users should be blocked without first being told they are violating a rule". Well, I had no idea that I was violating a rule. And to repeat: I thought I knew that rule...as I had asked for it! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:11, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *Also, if the December 2016 amendment is the way WJBscribe has interpreted it, it in effect puts all articles under ARBPIA in 0RR. And that has never been discussed (And I, for one would be against it, as it wouldn't be workable). And that was definitely not what I meant should happen, when I asked for 1RR to be strengthen! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:38, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *[[User:BU Rob13]]: it might be that my reading of the remedy was skewed by the fact that I know intimately what triggered the December 2017 amendment, namely me asking for "That one should not be allowed to add, or remove, the same material twice in a 24 hour period." I never dreamed it could, in effect, mean 0RR. (And that is something I would greatly object to. I know ''far'' to well how difficult it is to agree to what is "consensus" in the IP area, and would strongly object to such a remedy.) I asked for, (and thought I got) [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=756797149#Motion:_ARBPIA that status quo should get the advantage in a dispute between '''two editors''']. In this case, however, there were ''many'' editors involved. To decide what is "consensus" in such a case can, in my experience, be nearly impossible to determine. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 17:44, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *[[User:Shrike]]: I have ''always'' self reverted if I have become aware of doing something wrong! But that is the problem here, I’m not sure I did! *If* the admins agree that I did, then I will 1: self revert, 2: go straight to [[WP:ARCA]] to get this rule changed. (Btw, reverting will bring back an [[WP:OR]] map, which nobody is for?) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 18:40, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *[[User:BU Rob13]]: I started a RfC [[Talk:Kfar Ahim]] on 12 January, it was closed, for the second time, today. After 11+ years in this area, I know there is absolutely ''no'' problem too small not to be quarrelled over. Normally it works out somehow.....everyone keeps to 1 edit a day, + lots of discussion on the talk pages. AFAIK, ''nobody'' of "the regulars" in the IP area has asked for a rule the way WJBscribe has interpreted them, which basically takes away ''that one'' edit a day. And I mean what I said above: I will go straight to [[WP:ARCA]] to try to get it changed, if that is the correct interpretation. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 18:40, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *[[User:WJBscribe]], no, it isn't that I think a consensus is always impossible to reach. But Nishidani puts the point quite clearly; ''a single editor'' can always claim there is no consensus (And in the IP area Murphys law rule: what ''can'' go wrong, ''will'' go wrong.) That you do not follow what you yourself state, namely "hesitate about a block, because I generally don't think users should be blocked without first being told they are violating a rule" is bad enough, but what I did is worse: When I went to [[WP:ARCA]] in December, it was to get a ''minor adjustment'' to the 1RR rule (And I think I speak for most of the "regulars" in the IP area, when I say that 1RR has generally been good). BUT: instead of a minor adjustment, I apparently got a monster rule, enabling me to be blocked, ''without'' notice, and without me knowingly making a mistake! Pinging the arb.commers who voted for this, to see if this is what they meant: [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] [[User:Doug Weller|Doug Weller]] [[User:DGG|DGG]] [[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]] [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] [[User:DeltaQuad|DeltaQuad]] [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:26, 22 March 2017 (UTC) *[[User:El_C]], [[User:Opabinia regalis]], as I said above, I have ''always'' worked within the rules, and ''always'' self reverted when I was told I was wrong. This time I was ''blocked without any warning'', by an admin who has earlier stated that he "hesitate about a block, because I generally don't think users should be blocked without first being told they are violating a rule" .....alas, that was a courtesy apparently not extended to me, only to Onceinawhile. That none of you other admins have the guts to unmake an injustice make me not wanting to be a part of this place. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:34, 23 March 2017 (UTC) *[[User:El C]], I don't blame you, I know that the penalty for weel-warring is mostly instant desysop. The one I blame is [[User:WJBscribe]], who blocked me '''without any warning''', and '''without me knowingly breaking any rule'''. I have ''always'' tried to follow the rules scrupulously, but it is rather difficult to follow rules you do not know exists! I see [[User:Newyorkbrad]], writes [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment&diff=prev&oldid=771262195 here] ''"In my view, "blocking without warning" should never take place in the sense of "the editor was blocked even though he or she didn't know he or she was doing anything wrong, and would have stopped immediately had he or she been told.""'' ...but that is exactly how I was blocked, and is still blocked! But apparently this is totally acceptable behaviour from WJBscribe? And I am absolutely not "wedded to the idea of everyone having their 1RR per day ", but as I have said, I would go straight to [[WP:ARCA]] to modify this monster rule, if 0RR is in fact correct interpretation. I addition to the examples mention by Oncenawhile, I can mention [[Palestine Liberation Organization]], where there was also a bit of a scuffle among "the usual suspects", and none of us waited for a "consensus" on the talk page. Also, could someone please copy this to my unblock request? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:12, 23 March 2017 (UTC) | accept = Per [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=771875089 this closing statement]. From an abundance of caution, do please take this to ARCA and avoid circumstances which might lead to a repeat of this block until/if the matter is clarified at ARCA. -- [[User:Euryalus|Euryalus]] ([[User talk:Euryalus|talk]]) 00:43, 24 March 2017 (UTC)}}
:My apologies for the error, which I have corrected, I will copy the rest of your message over to [[WP:AE]]. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User:WJBscribe|WJBscribe]] [[User talk:WJBscribe|(talk)]]</strong> 15:48, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
::[[User:WJBscribe]]: Thank you, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 16:04, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I haven't had time to read the background here, but FYI to all involved that other matters related to the 1RR provision are already under discussion at ARCA, so you might want to look there. (Huldra, I'm sure we can move your comments over if you aren't unblocked.) [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 01:27, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Now that you know what you know, are you able to guarantee that you can work with the rule as stated?—yes, despite the fact that it is not the clearest of rules and that it does not even have its own projectspace page for further clarification (us enforcing it are unhappy about that, either)—and can further guarantee not repeat said infraction? [[User:El_C|El_C]] 15:06, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
:The blocking admin feels that answer failed to respond as to how you would handle a slow-moving dispute in the future—so maybe address that instead of protesting. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 20:27, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
:For the record, I actually thought your response was good enough for an unblock, but as mentioned, the blocking admin has objected to that. And you know me: ''gutless.'' [[User:El_C|El_C]] 20:32, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
::I hadn't gotten back around to viewing things, and I'm a bit put-off that I wasn't pinged for comment before this was closed, {{U|Euryalus}}. I don't find a statement saying that clearly what she did was correct and that she needs to take this to ARCA for "fixing" to be very helpful here. Even in the ''absence'' of a remedy, what she did was a slow-burn edit war. Reverting every couple days for a long period of time is still an edit war and still a blockable pattern of behavior. Huldra seems to be under the mistaken impression that this is somehow how we get to progress in the ARBPIA topic area. I strongly object to that. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 01:46, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Thank for the message. Mildly, I closed the thread based on the consensus of views, not on my own opinion. There was absolutely no consensus in the thread that Huldra was "right," in reverting this material, and the closing statement doesn't suggest otherwise. There was a consensus that "mitigating circumstances" (whether that be a misunderstanding of the remedy, or an assumption of good faith) tended towards an unblock in this instance. That consensus wasn't unanimous; for example you disagreed, and so did WJBScribe. These views were considered and given weight in conjunction with the others. A good point was made that whatever the interpretation of the remedy, it as important that the particular conduct did not recur at least until/if there was a clarification. That was noted in the closing statement and also in the comment in the unblock appeal above. If this conduct does recur, there is now ample documentation to support a further, more substantial block if required. This would be true even if there was no remedy clarification.

:::In passing, Huldra has also requested above that she be described as "she" and not "he". -- [[User:Euryalus|Euryalus]] ([[User talk:Euryalus|talk]]) 02:25, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::{{Re|BU Rob13}} I propose that you justify or strike out the charge of "reverting every couple days for a long period of time". Apart from the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank&diff=771503950&oldid=771468333 single revert] on March 21 that brought Huldra to AE, she made a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank&diff=770356001&oldid=770349743 very partial revert] with a good explanation on March 14 and before that no reverts since [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank&diff=687651826&oldid=687528465 Oct 26, 2015] apart from some last September permitted by ARBPIA#500/30. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 02:30, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I'm commenting based on ''Huldra's'' statements and based on the general conduct in the topic area. My concern is mostly for edits going forward, not past actions (since all blocks are preventative, not punitive). She's stated that this is the way things are accomplished in the topic area. I'm also not claiming that she reverted once every couple of days or advocated this, but that she both did and advocated for different editors reverting between competing sides once every couple days. This is well-supported by his statements at AE and the page history. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 02:34, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::And sincere apologies for misgendering; that was not intended. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 02:37, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::: "I'm also not claiming that she reverted once every couple of days" — but you did claim that, quite explicitly. You should apologise. You also appear to have no idea what editing in the IP area is like. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 02:41, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::No, I most certainly did not. "Reverting every couple days for a long period of time is still an edit war and still a blockable pattern of behavior" is a statement of fact. I believe it was quite clear in context that I was discussing Huldra's statements on what is "normal" editing in the IP topic area. I've enforced arbitration remedies in this topic area for a while now, and I'm certainly aware what editing is like in the area. The way forward is not to keep reverting until the other side stops. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 03:16, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::: You wrote "what she did was a slow-burn edit war"; it is clear enough. Well, she did contribute one edit to a "war" that had 4 edits in total. But let's leave that aside and consider your extra charge, that she "advocated for different editors reverting between competing sides once every couple days". I've now read her statement on AE multiple times and do not find such an advocation anywhere. What she said, correctly, was that most minor disputes in the IP area are solved by editors within the 1RR rule. For long-term or major disputes we have RfCs, which she always participates in and opened her share. Her point was to contrast that reality with the new rule that gives entirely new and extraodinary powers to reverters, who are not even required to explain their revert or take part in the ensuing discussion. If we have to open an RfC every time someone reverts, it will be a catastrophe. She is entitled to express such an opinion without being attacked for it. I've been editing the IP area for 15 years, 12 years as adminstrator, and I agree with her and will support her at ARCA. It is totally false to claim that she advocates edit-warring. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 08:37, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::[[User:BU Rob13]], to the best of my knowledge, ''no-one'' in the [[WP:ARBIPA]]- area has been blocked for 1 edit in 24 hr before, (well, I’m not counting clear vandalism, of course). If you know of any such case, please tell me. I’m the first, and so far only one, AFAIK. And I hope I will be the last one! Seriously, nobody of the "regulars", AFAIK, in the area has asked for this. This rule is ''not'' helpful for us who edit in the area, but it ''is'' useful to justify trigger happy admins. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 08:47, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Huldra, my point is that brute forcing through a change is rarely (never?) helpful. Say your revert went through. What then? Someone who disagrees comes along, reverts back to status quo. Then do you revert again? The whole point of the restriction was to force discussion instead of reverts. This is encouraged by [[WP:BRD]]. It prevents 100% of edit wars (or allows sanctions if they happen, rather). And you don't have to open an RfC, {{U|Zero0000}}. You have to obtain consensus. That can just be a normal talk page discussion where a few editors indicate agreement over one editor who doesn't like the change, etc. Most consensus decisions don't arise from RfCs, just normal discussions. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 15:41, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::[[User:BU Rob13]], well, if I can be a bit flippant: it is very easy to prevent 100% of edit wars; just forbid 100% of the edits....which is the direction we are going.
:::::::::I was on the talk page of that article ''virtually every single day'', (see above: 21 March, also 20 March, twice 19 March, etc.) (WJBscribe just linked to my ''very last'' edit on the AE page.) This is normal in the IP area, we discuss, try out an edit, under 1RR, discuss some more. As for the revert itself, I 100% stand behind removing the old map. It was an OR map, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jordan_1948-1967.png see here], done by a Wikipedia editor. And nobody, (besides Shrike?) argues for it. (I was recently in a very similar discussion, see [[Talk:Israeli-occupied_territories#UN_territory_map_modified_to_say_.22disputed_territories.22]]) Now, what would replace it can be argued, I am ''completely open'' for a better choice than the one I included (and which is ''still'' in the article.) Possibly another map had already been chosen ''if'' the discussion/1RR had been allowed to go its normal course, and not been stopped by a trigger-happy admin. And I mean what I say on the ARCA page, ''if'' we always need to gain consensus on the talk page before an edit, ''what'' will count as consensus? You are opening a can of worms, here.
:::::::::Actually, editing in this area has never been better, or should I say, less troublesome, as after we got the 30/500 rule. It isn't the editors in the area who has asked for this new monster rule...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:47, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

== Merger Proposal ==
==Merger discussion for [[Beit Zakariah]]==
[[File:Merge-arrows.svg|50px|frameless|left]] An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;[[Beit Zakariah]]&mdash;has been '''proposed for [[Wikipedia:Merging|merging]]''' with another article. If you are interested, please participate in [[Talk:Az-Zakariyya#Merger proposal|the merger discussion]]. Thank you. [[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 13:43, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

==[[At-Tur (Mount of Olives)]] edit==
Hi. An ARBPIA IP brought to [[User_talk:El_C#At-Tur|my attention]] that a passage reading: "On Friday, 24 April 2015, a 16-year-old resident of at-Tur was shot dead by Israeli soldiers at the Az-Zaim checkpoin," had the remaining sentence fragment: "after the youth ran toward officers stationed at the checkpoint wielding a large knife," [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=At-Tur_%28Mount_of_Olives%29&diff=next&oldid=772373311 removed] by you from the sentence. I'd point out that there may be point of view and due weight concerns with that removal, since now the reader has to click on the ref to learn this—otherwise, your change makes it look as if the youth was merely shot for no discernible reason. Any chance you could restore that half of the sentence for the sakes of clarity in the prose? [[User:El_C|El_C]] 02:19, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
: [[User:El C]]: I deleted that second half because (as you can see from the second source that I added): the dead boys family denied that he had a knife. You can also see that in [http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Arab-teen-who-attacked-checkpoint-officers-with-butcher-knife-buried-in-Jerusalem-399362 this link] (typically, they put the claim from the police in the headline, while the claim from the family is noted further down.) Now, I can reintroduce the knife-claim, BUT then I would also have to add that the family disputed this. And I thought that was giving too much space the this one death. What do you think, should I expand it? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 03:39, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::Okay, I was unaware that was being disputed. Now it's making more sense. Is there evidence though that a knife was used or that the youth charged them? (Do you know if they recovered a knife? Was the incident filmed?) I would lean toward adding ''something,'' even if it is a "during an alleged knife attack" ending to the sentence. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 03:48, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::: [[User:El C]]: it is not reported that any knife was recovered (which makes the whole claim rather suspicious, in ''my'' eyes), nor is any films noted. The Israeli police/military virtually always claim they were under attack, when they shoot any Palestinian. They did that in the [[Hebron shooting incident]], when films later showed that the victim didn't move/was unconscious. I would oppose just adding "during an alleged knife attack" ...I think either we include ''both'' the claims of the police and the family, or we include none, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 03:59, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
:::: do you have any other source than electronic intifada? I can't imagine that site is reliable source for Wikipedia. Right now it's very undue as it appears the police just shot for no reason. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup><font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font></sup> 04:04, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::::Too bad, I thought "alleged knife attack" was a compromise which would have worked for both sides. I make my exit, then. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 04:07, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::[[User:Sir Joseph]] The Jerusalem Post, which I linked to above, also writes ''"Abu Ghannam’s family has rejected the Israeli account of the incident. One relative, Muhammad Abu Ghannam, said he does not believe the teen was armed, and alleged that he was on his way back from a friend’s party when he was killed."'' And El C: no, I don't think it is a good compromise, if there is no mentioning of his family denial. But I am fine with adding a sentence like "The police claimed he attacked with a knife, but his family denied this." [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 04:18, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::: I think "alleged knife attack, which the family denies." is agreeable and IMO a bit better worded. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup><font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font></sup> 15:36, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

== Ovadia ==

I sent the book and 3-part supplement by email. Note that my email address has changed. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:14, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

== A present for you in your mailbox. ==

Cheers. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 12:38, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
: [[User:Zero0000]], thanks, got it! Seems I have to freshen up my knowledge of works of the [[Anonymous pilgrim of Piacenza|Piacenza Pilgrim]], [[Arculf]], [[Al-Muqaddasi]] and [[Nasir Khusraw]], especially the first two, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:04, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

== Typo on AfD:Murder_of_Georgios_Tsibouktzakis page ==

I noticed that in your comment on page [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Murder_of_Georgios_Tsibouktzakis]] you wrote, "at the time go hid murder" which I strongly suspect was intended to say "at the time of his murder." It's a bit confusing, though, so you may want to edit it. -- [[User:DavidConrad|DavidConrad]] ([[User talk:DavidConrad|talk]]) 01:55, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:DavidConrad]]: you are absolutely right, that was indeed typos, I have fixed it now. Thanks for letting me know! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:17, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

== On Swedhr ==

Good evening, I have posted in my talk page a comment ref. "Statement on deletion attempts in Wikipedia articles on SWEDHR and its representatives" [http://reports.swedhr.org/statement-on-deletion-attempts-in-wikipedia-articles-on-swedhr-and-its-representatives/]
Brgds, [[User:Inkerifi|Inkerifi]] ([[User talk:Inkerifi|talk]]) 01:04, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

== RfC on Hasan Salama ==

I've created a request for comment here [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hasan_Salama#RfC_on_what_aspects_of_Hasan_Salama.27s_life_should_be_mentioned_in_the_lead] due to our recent edit disagreement. You may be interested in leaving your opinion. [[User:OtterAM|OtterAM]] ([[User talk:OtterAM|talk]]) 00:13, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

== Note ==

Hello,
I've noticed your wonderful edits and referencing in so many articles (much appreciated, you are doing a great job!). Upon our recent talk, if you want, I will send you a nice Turkish thesis that referencing Bakhit & Hamud and you can easily figure out the info about the villages (even if it's written in Turkish).--[[User:Historyfeelings|Historyfeelings]] ([[User talk:Historyfeelings|talk]]) 22:02, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
::[[User:Historyfeelings]] Thank you! Im looking forward to it! Though it might take some time before I have time to study it, I still have over 150 places identified in the 1596 census, where the material waits to be added, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:11, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

:::How to send it? I've got this alert: "This user has chosen not to receive email from other users" Anyway, If you need something instant regarding the census of Levant's villages in the years (1538, 1548-9, 1596) I will help. Thank you --[[User:Historyfeelings|Historyfeelings]] ([[User talk:Historyfeelings|talk]]) 22:41, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
::::[[User:Historyfeelings]] Sorry, I have had too many abusive emails, I fixed the preferences now, and you should be able to send it. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:48, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::Sent. Kindly, check. --[[User:Historyfeelings|Historyfeelings]] ([[User talk:Historyfeelings|talk]]) 23:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::: [[User:Historyfeelings]], ok, I sent you my email address, did you get it? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:22, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
::::::: Sent. Wish you all the best.--[[User:Historyfeelings|Historyfeelings]] ([[User talk:Historyfeelings|talk]]) 23:40, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Your wonderful contributions everywhere are appreciated. All the best. [[User:Historyfeelings|Historyfeelings]] ([[User talk:Historyfeelings|talk]]) 03:30, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
|}
:What, [[User talk:Historyfeelings]]: thank you so much! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:03, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
::You're most welcome.--[[User:Historyfeelings|Historyfeelings]] ([[User talk:Historyfeelings|talk]]) 20:59, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

== What did I edit? ==

What did I edit that was part of the Arab Israeli conflict? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Winsocker|Winsocker]] ([[User talk:Winsocker#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Winsocker|contribs]]) 03:18, 9 July 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Answered on your talk, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:26, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
== Some reading ==

I read the following (Doron Bar, [https://www.academia.edu/4820148/ 'The Christianisation of Rural Palestine during_Late Antiquity,'] [[Journal of Ecclesiastical History]], Vol. 54, No. 3 July 2003 pp.401-421 p.413). and found it had abundant refs to villages in the Byzantine period. (Not totally reliable:'Galilee . . . had an absolute Jewish majority' for the 5th century glosses over the known archaeological divide between the Eastern Jewish area and the western Christian majority area, a curious lapse). I've used it for a few pages as you can see. Worth a glance.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 16:12, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

:That certainly sounds interesting, any page stalker: please feel free to send it to me!

:I have done frightfully little on pre-Muslim eras, but I have Gideon Avni ''"Byzantine-Islamic Transition in Palestine : An Archaeological Approach"'' (Two examples with previews available [https://books.google.com/books?id=2aTFAgAAQBAJ], [https://books.google.com/books?id=ZLucAgAAQBAJ]) …which seems quite interesting. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:26, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
::You can download Bar's paper directly by clicking on the link. Avni's book is excellent. I've had occasion to cite in around here on several articles. Our articles have a strong Jewish/Islamic heritage bias, reflecting contemporary politics, and it is one of their outstanding defects. Both the pagan and Christian heritage was extensive, and is ignored generally.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:36, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Nah, you have to connect to google first...which I don't like to do. I agree with you about Avni, and I like the way he uses old pilgrim records. Alas, Im presently occupied with "picking low hanging fruit", that is, adding 1596 data, SWP, Guerin, etc, etc. When I have done the basic....we will see...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:44, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
::::I don't have to connect to google to get it. You've done single handedly the work of a whole community here. Pity so few editors understand anything but POv spinning. Anyhow, profiting from an adbreak during [[The Counselor]] now drop me an email and I'll send it on.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:12, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
:::::sent.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:29, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:32, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

== Ben-Arieh ==

As far as I have so far checked, your transcriptions seem accurate. On page 86, the Hebrew seems to say Khirbat al-'Amud rather than Khirbat al-'Umur, but I think this may be a typo as the only settlement of this name I can find seems to be in the North, near the Lebanon border.

On page 95, you have omitted several entries - apparently, those without a Hutteroth serial number. I could help more if I knew what you were trying to do, and what lists you were comparing this with.

Footnote 4 on Bayt Thul reads "In Hutteroth, Bayt Thun is marked. It seems to us that this refers to Bayt Thul".

I will carry on with this later. It's a long text, and since I'm not sure what you want it's hard to answer you fully. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 12:20, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:RolandR]], as I told Bolter over at [[User talk:Bolter21#Hebrew_needed]], I use Ben-Arieh as a check, to see if the info I have put into articles is correct. That is, info from Socin, Hartmann, Schick, see [[User:Huldra/Socin]], in addition to 1922 data. He also use Toledano, for 1600 data, alas, he use the Hebrew version, not the English version, (which I cite at [[User:Huldra/HA]]). It is still useful, though: if it is listed in the Toledano Hebrew version, then it is likely that it is also listed in the Toledano English 1984 version (which I have).
:Anyway, Bolter has done a lot of work on [[User:Huldra/Ben-Arieh]], please feel free to correct anything you think is at miss! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:13, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

== WikiUser8 ==

Misleading edit summaries, removing working links, see also [[Gabriel (surname)]]. I've got no time right now to check further. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 06:20, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
:I found time. The editor was removing links, even entries, on a number of people and organisations, obviously having searched for them. I've blocked them indefinitely. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:07, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
::[[User:Doug Weller]] Thanks, you did right. I'm sorry I didn't mark that, I normally only mark those with obvious vandalism, like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:185.71.2.37 this joker]. I'll try to be more vigilant towards this kind of not-so-obvious vandalism...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:11, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
:::There's no reason for you to apologise. I just wanted to let you know that I thought that there was a problem, which when I found time I fixed. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 20:56, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

==Reflist==
I saw you restored the |25em on the reflist. Are you aware that {{tl|reflist}} has recently been upgraded to automatically switch to the most appropriate width so you no longer need to add the |em part to make columns? This is why I was removing it. [[User:Number 57|<font color="orange">Number</font>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<font color="green">5</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<font color="blue">7</font>]] 20:55, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:Number 57]], well, the problem is that it does not for me... I only get one very long column, even say, articles like Bayt Jibrin. And that is rather cumbersome to work with, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:00, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
::I suspect you must be either using an old or unusual browser, or have a very narrow screen width. Either way, I would advise reporting this on the template talk page as I suspect a bot will be commissioned in the not-too-distant future to remove it from every article. [[User:Number 57|<font color="orange">Number</font>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<font color="green">5</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<font color="blue">7</font>]] 21:06, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
:::[[User:Number 57]], Thanks, I will do that. I use the largest Mac Air, I think it is 13 inches, and the newest safari. It is probably because my screen width is too narrow. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:23, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

== Disambiguation ==

I noticed where you had deleted the disambiguation that I put up in the two articles mentioning a place called Zakkariyya (Zecharia) in Israel. It is my view that it is quite easy for people not familiar with these two places to be confused by them, therefore having a special disambiguation on these two pages will be most helpful.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 19:46, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
:[[User talk:Davidbena]], yes, you could easily mix up [[Az-Zakariyya]] with [[Khirbet Beit Zakariyyah]] (and v.v.) ...but you could also easily mix it up with [[Khirbat Zakariyya]], or even [[Zekharia]]. And all of those options are in the dab page [[Zechariah]]. I don't think we need ''two'' pointers to the same, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:13, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
::True, but the difference being that [[Az-Zakariyya]] and [[Khirbet Beit Zakariyyah]] are sometimes given the EXACT SAME spelling, and are BOTH claimed to be the historical "Beit Zechariah" of [[Judas Maccabeus]] where he fought the invading Grecians under Antiochus, of course, claims made by different historical geographers. Conder thinks it to be the latter, while Robinson and Guerin think it to be the former. Therefore, having this special disambiguation is very important.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 20:15, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
:::Personally, I think it looks cluttered, with two different dabs at the top, where one is included in the other. But I seriously cannot be bothered edit warring over style issues.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:29, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
::::I've actually seen many Wikipedia pages with two disambiguation-templates, and they look just fine to me. The only reason why I did this is because of the ''real'' confusion that can develop when looking for the "twin" site claimed to be the same "Beit Zecharia." The spelling of Az-Zakariyya, of course, did not help much. It gets to be very confusing without some guidance, to say the least. Be well.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 20:44, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::Well, I cannot remember seeing any article with two dabs, where one is a ''subset'' of the other, though. But as I said ..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:49, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

== The German maps ==

Hi, The German maps are of fine quality, though the connection to Schumacher isn't clear. They are dated circa 1918 and were produced by the German military based on the PEF maps plus aerial photos and their own measurements. Because they are more removed in time from the Akka list than the PEF maps are, I don't think they help to decode the list compared to the PEF maps. However they nicely fill in the gap between PEF and the British maps that are mostly from the 1930s onwards. (However the British military also made maps circa 1918 and I have many of them.) The institute specifically asked me to not distribute the maps but they will surely give you the password if you explain that you are writing articles on the geography. They won't be happy about uploads to Commons though, so I suggest you keep them for your own use only. I did some work at [[User:Huldra/Schumacher]] but one thing I didn't check for is identifications that are suspiciously far away. Do you recall any? Cheers. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 14:12, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
:Ok, thanks a lot! Now that you have pointed it out, it is obvious that, say, es Samr (east shore) is [[al-Samra]]. I had assumed [[Guwarnet ez Zerka]] --> [[Jisr az-Zarqa]], but would like some further confirmation on that. As for [[Mughar el Hazzur]]?? --> El-Muĝar just NE of Deir Hanna, PEF gO.....that El-Muĝar is [[Maghar, Israel]], and I though that was on p. 189?
:Im not sure what you mean by "identifications that are suspiciously far away"?
:On another note, [[Adam Zertal]] no. 4 book is out, and I have gotten hold of a copy of no 3 (and had no 2 before.) Quite a lot of preview on all of them, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:32, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

See [[User:Huldra/Schumacher]] for comments on both El Mughars. I think the Safed one was definitely wrong before. In general these lists tend to walk around the country with small steps. Plotting them in order on a map would be a good way to identify some mistaken identifications; namely if the list appears to suddenly jump far away and then back again, or a place appears to lie amongst places assigned to a different kada. In this respect it would great to have a map showing the administrative boundaries. Unfortunately the boundaries changed over time and I don't know such a map for exactly this period. However the Zimmermann map at Middle East Yabber has boundaries for 1850 even though they are a bit hard to understand and are written in inconsistent fonts. You can see that the Safed district doesn't extend far west. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 03:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
: Yeah, you were right, Mughar el Hazzur ‎ was [[Maghar, Israel]]: the Mughar el Hazzur gives a mixed population of Druse, Muslims and Christians, just like the 1922 info. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:13, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
::By the way, "el Hazzur" probebly has anything to do with nearby [[Hatzor HaGlilit|Hatzor]].--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 15:25, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Let me step in and just ask what maps are you reffering to. Sounds interesting.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 15:22, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]], you are welcome to make any suggestions on [[User:Huldra/Schumacher]]. Just do as Zero and I do, write your suggestion with Bolter21: first, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:24, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
:{{Re|Bolter21}} We are referring to the maps available [http://www.palaestina-verein.de/wp/wordpress/?portfolio=karten-gottlieb-schumacher&lang=en here]. As I wrote above, I'm not sure why they are associated with Schumacher but they are nice maps anyway. You need to request the maps using a form on that web page. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 02:29, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

== Tool ==

*https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py
See
*https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_health_initiative/User_Interaction_History_tool


and
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fmondoweiss.net

and

https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo

== email ==

You have email! [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 00:54, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks, got it! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:26, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

== Shoshahla village ==

[http://mondoweiss.net/2017/10/palestinian-familys-expulsion/ I haven't been able to dredge up much], if anything about this small village in the Bethlehem area, so small it evaded your and Zero's trawling nets. The report says it dates back ''only'' to 1878. I'll do the article if I can find enough sources. Any clues? [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 17:28, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:Nishidani]] I cannot find it on any map....by the location it gives in the article, it should be somewhere by [[Khirbet Beit Zakariyyah]] (which certainly is a heck of a lot older than 1878), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:22, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
::Looks like another one for the back boiler, then. Thanks for the trouble.Best regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:12, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
:::Sorry I couldnt be of more help. In the Jerusalem Governorate, we have [['Arab al-Jahalin]] and [[Khan al-Ahmar]] articles, which are in a bit of a mess, me thinks.....I have to sit down and clean them up, one day...(if nobody beats me to it) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:32, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
: {{Re|Nishidani}} In the 1:20,000 map of the 1940s, the plot of land just south of where [[Neve Daniel]] sits now is called Shushalu. I'm guessing that is the same as Shoshahla. A few houses are shown, not clearly a village. I didn't find anything else. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 02:55, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
::Thanks chaps. Reference then to Shushalu can't get underway unless that story is taken up, in short - for lack of sources. H. I'll take a look at [[Khan al-Ahmar]] and [['Arab al-Jahalin]] to see if I can help out. I tweaked the latter, at a point which needs a citation, saying it was 'under' and not 'beside' Ma'ale Adumim - assuming it refers to the string of aboriginal shanties on the left below the road as you drive back from the Dead Sea to Jerusalem? [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 06:50, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

== Official gazette of Palestine ==

{{To|Oncenawhile}} {{To|Nishidani}} {{To|Bolter21}} The Gazette is where the government published official notices, including all laws. I have about half of it on my computer and access to an original paper copy of a large part of the rest. Now I found that apparently the whole lot from 1919 to 1948 is at [http://sesame.library.yale.edu/fedoragsearch/ameeltreeresult http://sesame.library.yale.edu/fedoragsearch/ameeltreeresult]. Just click "gazettes". The first one there is the official gazette of Syria partly in French but mostly in Arabic. The Palestinian one is in English. It is scanned from microfilm and the search function is patchy for the earlier volumes. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 03:48, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks, Zed.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 06:30, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
:Again, thanks, Zero. The one I have seen used it most, is Khalidi, typically saying that such and such a village was noted as a hamlet in the Gazette. Unfortunately he never specify which number it was noted in, so it may take some time to find that...Also, would you mind sharing the electronic copies you have of the Gazette? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:38, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
:Just as an example, I found on p.1537 on [https://www.nevo.co.il/law_html/law21/PG-e-0974-2.pdf this], that from 1939, Umm ed Dufuf was included in [[Daliyat al-Rawha']]. Therefore I thought I would put all the Umm ed Duff stuff into the [[Daliyat al-Rawha']] article. I would like to be able to link directly....and after a bit of a search, found that I could: p. [http://sesame.library.yale.edu/fedoragsearch/ameelview?pid=agaz%3A102389&fgsquery=&size=1.6 1537] [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:57, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
:: The document that identifies some places as hamlets is not this one. It is the Palestine Index Gazetteer, which was produced in several editions around WWII. As far as I know, it is not available online, but please prove me wrong. In my country it is available in one library that regards it as rare and so not available for interlibrary loan. So it is hard for me to obtain, though I'd dearly like to. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 23:51, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
:::Ok, thanks. Just checked, "Palestine Index Gazetteer" is not available in my country, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:55, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for October 14==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[List of villages depopulated during the Arab–Israeli conflict]], you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages [[Shuna]] and [[Majdal]] ([//toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_villages_depopulated_during_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict check to confirm]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[//toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_villages_depopulated_during_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict?client=notify fix with Dab solver]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 11:02, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

==population_footnotes==
Having noticed the awkward positioning of references for the population in the infobox in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nitaf&oldid=807100639 Nitaf], I have added the population_footnotes parameter to {{tl|Infobox former Arab villages in Palestine}}, which, if you use it, means the references appear after the year in brackets (see current version of [[Nitaf]]). [[User:Number 57|<font color="orange">Number</font>]] [[User talk:Number 57|<font color="green">5</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Number 57|<font color="blue">7</font>]] 09:13, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
::Ok, fine. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:22, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

== Saudi arrests ==

I've created [[2017 Saudi Arabian anti-corruption arrests]] as a focal point for yesterday's events and the aftermath.[[User:No Swan So Fine|No Swan So Fine]] ([[User talk:No Swan So Fine|talk]]) 09:34, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:No Swan So Fine]] Ok, thanks, I will see what I can do. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:04, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


== Revert ==

Hi
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2017_Saudi_Arabian_purge&diff=prev&oldid=809855121 the info is not in the article]. --[[User:Panam2014|Panam2014]] ([[User talk:Panam2014|talk]]) 22:05, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:Panam2014]] Please look further up, you will see that [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5058061/Saudi-prince-killed-firefight-resisting-arrest.html this] link is already in the article. Feel free to expand on it, if you like, but let us not have two links to the same article....and a Daily mail article, at that, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:09, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2017_Saudi_Arabian_purge&type=revision&diff=809857176&oldid=809855913 Done with one source]. --[[User:Panam2014|Panam2014]] ([[User talk:Panam2014|talk]]) 22:15, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
:::[[User:Panam2014]] ok, fine....except it looks a bit silly, first having a sentence saying "The Saudi government has denied he was killed, saying he is alive and well" .....and next: "His death was confirmed by the Saudi royal court" . Hhhhmmmm, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:21, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

== Using NPOV names ==

Hi
Could you please use [[WP:NPOV]] terms especially if we have article like in case [[Israeli West Bank barrier]].I think it always good to use an article name without pipe linking if there even a slight concert there maybe a POV issue.Thanks.--[[user:Shrike|Shrike]] ([[User talk:Shrike|talk]]) 08:17, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:Shrike]]: well, this is not a very important issue for me (or, as they say: not the hill I want to die on...), but seeing the different opinions about this on AE, I suggest you open a RfC on some talk page where an alternative name is used. Say on [[Talk:Nabi Ilyas]], or [[Talk:Beit Ijza]], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:45, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
:Also, I object to the characterisation of "segregation wall" as ''my'' POV term...actually, it is the term from ARIJ, which I used, mostly out of laziness....However, I think we need a broader discussion if we are ''not'' to use it, at all. Again, I suggest you start a RfC, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:23, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
::In the study I cited at AE was it (wherever Shrike complained), our term 'barrier' is not regarded as acceptable to Palestinians, and thus is an Israeli POV outweighing Palestinian POV objections standing unaltered in our articles.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:33, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Well, [[User talk:Nishidani]], I haven't been involved in the [[Israeli West Bank barrier]] article at all....but just look at the pictures: it sure looks more like a "wall" than a "barrier" to me. Also, in village after village I have been writing about: that wall does not as much separate Israel from Palestine/West Bank, but rather separates the Palestinian villagers from their land....[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:52, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Most of the barrier is chain link fencing. I think the number is around 80-90% is of chain link so wall would not be appropriate. It also wouldn't be appropriate to call it a segregation barrier because what is the segregation going on? It's one thing to call it a separation, but segregation is more along of the apartheid POV which is not neutral at all. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 21:09, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
::::What our impressions are is immaterial. We have sources that describe the different Israeli/Palestinian POVs re naming, (Richard Rogers, Anat Ben-David,[http://www.govcom.org/publications/full_list/rogers_ben-david_comingtoterms_mwc.pdf ''Coming to terms: a conflict analysis of the usage, in official and unofficial sources, of ‘security fence’, ‘apartheid wall’, and other terms for the structure between Israel and the Palestinian territories,''] Media, War & Conflict vol. 3, No.2, 2010 pp- 1–28.) and material like that should determine what usage we adopt. One of the nice things about being old is that one can remember how beautiful that country once was before 1967. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 22:25, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
::RFC about what using neutral terms?We have article names for the reason.We should use it as it is.So will you use a neutral terms as per our article names or not?--[[user:Shrike|Shrike]] ([[User talk:Shrike|talk]]) 18:40, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Shrike. Fa chrissake. Some editors here spend 99% of their time doing serious research and composition of articles, and dislike every moment torn away from that encyclopedic enterprise, as per being nagged, followed, quibbled with, and in general, having one's time wasted. You've been at Huldra's back pushing, querying, quibbling and reporting far too frequently over utter trivia anyone with an intuitive grasp of the world would twig to be pettifogging bullshit, so drop it and kindly drop the [[WP:Dick]]iness. My apologies to H. for worrying this page.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 19:38, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Shrike, please point me to a WP policy where it says we are obliged to use the article name (and not the name the source gives)? (And yeah, we have article names for a reason: it sort of would be a bit cumbersome navigating if all the articles were nameless....) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:29, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
::::The policy is [[WP:NPOV]] the term you used is not neutral--[[user:Shrike|Shrike]] ([[User talk:Shrike|talk]]) 20:57, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
:::::Shrike, I really think the question here us far bigger than one you, or me, can determine by ourselves: that is why I have repeatedly asked you to open a RfC: to get more input. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:03, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
::::::I prefer separation fence, it is the term used by legal sources like ''International Law Reports'' and ''International Law: Norms, Actors, Process'' which is a 2015 Aspen Casebook. [[User:Seraphim System|<span style="font-family:Candara; color:#cc00cc; text-shadow:#b3b3cc 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">'''Seraphim System'''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Seraphim System|<span style="color:#009900">talk</span>]])</sup> 17:47, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

== ANI Experiences survey ==

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:Hey Huldra. Thanks for signing up to to take the AN/I survey. As you don't have email enabled, I am unable to send you the survey link. If you don't want enable email just for this, you can email me at pearley{{@}}wikimedia.org and I can send it on to the address you use. Best, [[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] ([[User talk:PEarley (WMF)|talk]]) 16:36, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
::[[User:PEarley (WMF)]]: ok, I have emailed you now. I have my email not enabled, as I have received hundreds of nasty emails (death/rape-threaths) through it, and Wikipedia still doesn't have any way of not letting newbies sending you emails. See this: [[Wikipedia talk:Community health initiative on English Wikipedia/User Mute features]], where I discussed it with [[User:TBolliger_(WMF)]] back in September. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:15, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
:::Thanks, Huldra. I believe progress is being made on allowing preferences for user groups in the email settings. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138165 This task has more details]. [[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] ([[User talk:PEarley (WMF)|talk]]) 20:55, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
::::[[User:PEarley (WMF)]] ok, just confirming that I received your email, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:19, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::Excellent, thanks for lettting me know. [[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] ([[User talk:PEarley (WMF)|talk]]) 22:21, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

==DYK nomination of Mausoleum of Abu Huraira==
[[Image:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Mausoleum of Abu Huraira]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Mausoleum of Abu Huraira|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 22:34, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

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== About the DYK ==

I'm sorry that the DYK was hijacked and none of the hooks you offered or preferred were promoted. I thought a hook based on the architecture was more interesting but apparently it is POV to say "Palestine", even in a geographical sense. It is one of the ''many'' reasons I have been turned off by anything in the I/P area. My salutes to you though for not being driven away.[[User:TheGracefulSlick|TheGracefulSlick]] ([[User talk:TheGracefulSlick|talk]]) 07:19, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:TheGracefulSlick]] thanks. And after 12 years writing Palestinian history, Im quite aware of some peoples allergy agains the words Palestine/Palestinian. I could have said a lot about it...but you learn to hold your tongue.....Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:18, 6 December 2017 (UTC) (PS: I love Jefferson Airplane!!)
::There are a couple of citation needed tags in the [[Mausoleum of Abu Huraira]] article. Please could you add citations so that the hook will not need to be moved out of Prep 2 and back to the nominations page. One of the DYK rules is that articles with dispute tags are not allowed to proceed to the main page. Thanks. [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 06:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
:::[[User:Cwmhiraeth]]: I have added the sources, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:07, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
::::Thank you, it's a nice article. It should appear on the main page on 11th December. [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 20:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Can I raise two issues? 1. <s>The article states that after 1948 Sephardic Jews.... a) the source doesn't specify only Sephardic Jews, (or at least the source on the page doesn't),</s> b) the lead says that Jews have been praying there for centuries but the article note says that Jews haven't been praying there. It's a little confusing, the article would imply that only after 1948 did this become an important place, with no prayer beforehand, yet the lead implies the opposite. 2. The lead says this is now an official Jewish shrine. I have no idea what an official Jewish shrine is and I have never heard of that term at all. 3. Shouldn't the article name be Tomb of Rabban Gamliel since this is the current state? [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 20:31, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
::Petersen, p. 313 say that it was taken over by Sephardic Jews, after 1948. I have not seen any sources claiming that this was used as a Jewish shrine between the Mamluk period, and 1948. Do you know of any such sources? The Mamluk inscriptions clearly make this out as a shrine for Abu Huraira. As I have said before: ''if'' there was a Jewish building there before (of which there is no proof, AFAIK),... then not a single stone of that building ...if it ever existed...has been recognised in the present building. Actually, Taragan writes that it earlier was a church here, and that Baibar built on that....that really should have been in the article. And Pr [[WP:COMMONNAME]] I see no reason for name change. As for the term ''official Jewish shrine'', does it mean that the State of Israel pays for its upkeep? I frankly do not know. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:56, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
:::I also don't know about the shrine. Not that this is a valid reason, but if you google "Official Jewish Shrine" only this article shows up. I think the sentence should be rewritten to show that this is now an Israeli heritage place or whatever Israel calls these things and is under Israeli funding. The other part is that the lead says that Jews have prayed there since the 1300's or something, so it's a little unclear. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 21:06, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
::::I don't have the Bar reference, only the two Taragan articles and Petersen. So I don't know what Bar refers to when they write ''based mainly on the literature of medieval Jewish pilgrims, who frequently mentioned visits to that place.'' We really should have referred to those Jewish pilgrims, and not only Bar. And ''medieval'' covers a long period: as I said, to my knowledge this was not a Jewish pilgrim site after Baibars first construction, that is 673 AH (1274 CE), until 1948. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:18, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::I don't have that either, but for now, I think the Official Jewish Shrine is more important. It's a stand alone sentence in the lead that is not true. I don't have an alternative, cleaner sentence about Israel recognition or what it is and how it's funded, but I think for now the sentence should be removed. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:15, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::I have a problem with the sentence: "Known to Jews as the Tomb of Rabban Gamaliel of Yavne, frequent visits to the tomb are recorded in the literature of medieval Jewish pilgrims since the late 13th century." From what I understand, that sentence should be "Known to Jews as the Tomb of Rabban Gamaliel of Yavne, frequent visits to the tomb are recorded in the literature of medieval Jewish pilgrims before the late 13th century."
::::::And then the second sentence: "Following the 1948 Arab–Israeli War the mausoleum became an officially designated Jewish shrine" could be changed into something like: "Following the 1948 Arab–Israeli War the place again became an place for prayer for Jews"...or something like that, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:14, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::::I have the Bar article downloaded, if you need a copy.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 11:51, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::::[[User:Nishidani]], Yeah, fine, send it over (though I tend to avoid articles when the [[flash mob]]s arrive...) cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:05, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::Done, I fink. Are flash mobs people who do selfies with an indoor camera?[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:22, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::[[User:Nishidani]] I didn't get it, did you send it to my old email? And I refer to flash mobs as clueless people who appear, suddenly, at the same places... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:29, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::Duh. I couldn't find your email, until I remembered a reserve piece of paper for some addresses, from ages back, and used that. I redid it, using the mail you sent me. Sorry. There is some truth in flash mob rumours that I'm a blithering fuckwit.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:43, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::::[[User:Nishidani]] Lol, got it...and I think you need some more problems than forgetting an email address before you qualify as a "blithering fuckwit" :) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:48, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

==DYK for Mausoleum of Abu Huraira==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#11 December 2017|11 December 2017]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Mausoleum of Abu Huraira]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Mausoleum of Abu Huraira|a tomb]]''' ''(pictured)'' in [[Yavne]] is claimed as the site of burial of [[Abu Hurairah]] by Muslims and [[Gamaliel II]] by Jews, despite both claims being highly unlikely?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Mausoleum of Abu Huraira]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2017-12-01&end=2017-12-21&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mausoleum_of_Abu_Huraira Mausoleum of Abu Huraira])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Alex Shih|Alex Shih]] ([[User talk:Alex Shih|talk]]) 00:01, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

== Comment ==

Hello Huldra, I tried to sent you an email but there's now available one for you. I'm surprised about you effort on writing articles about Palestine and Palestinian history. If you need any help about this area please don't hesitate to [[User talk:علاء|send a msg]]. I really appreciate your efforts '''--'''[[User:علاء|<font size="3" face="Script MT Bold" style="color:black;">Alaa</font> ]] [[User_talk:علاء|:)..!]] 09:24, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks, [[User:علاء]]! Glad to hear. I have sent you my email address, I don't have it connected for the same reason this page is protected: too many nasty messages... (See this: [[Wikipedia talk:Community health initiative on English Wikipedia/User Mute features]], where I discussed it with [[User:TBolliger_(WMF)]] back in September.)
:Anyway, I unfortunately do not read/speak Arabic, (or Hebrew), and I could always need some help from some Arab speaking people! Say, checking this page [[User:Huldra/Socin]] ...that User:Makeandtoss and myself have gotten it right? (You cannot have ''too'' many eyes on such a page...) Also, I rely partly on Arabic spelling when I identify Robinson, 1838 places from his 2nd Appendix....whenever I add a reference of the type, say ''Robinson and Smith, 1841, vol 3, Appendix 2, p. [https://archive.org/stream/biblicalresearch03robiuoft#page/128/mode/1up 128]''...please feel free to check that I have gotten the right place. Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:54, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
::{{ping|Huldra}} I saw your message but when I try to send to your email it gave me (Invalid email address)- Is it mail or hotmail? Also I took a look on [[User:Huldra/Socin]] it's a fantastic one. I'll take a more holistic view on the previous page. Thanks '''--'''[[User:علاء|<font size="3" face="Script MT Bold" style="color:black;">Alaa</font> ]] [[User_talk:علاء|:)..!]] 10:24, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
:::Hi [[User:علاء]], I resent the email address, cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:04, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
::::In general, in terms of linguistic psychodynamics, one should not ''resent'' (oh, ''frissons de ressentiment'') anything one sends! G'nite from the blithering blatherer.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:29, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Nishidani]] Heh, well, since Alaa, like myself, is not a native English speaker, I hope he understands. As a matter of interest, what is the correct word? The I try "resendt" my spell checker goes into overdrive...? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:34, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::Your (recent) usage was impeccable, no need for correction. It's just that the past of ''re-send'' is identical in orthographic shape to the present of 'resent' as in resentment. The only distinction is the voicing (z/s).[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 09:43, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks {{ping|Huldra}} '''--'''[[User:علاء|<font size="3" face="Script MT Bold" style="color:black;">Alaa</font> ]] [[User_talk:علاء|:)..!]] 12:49, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for your contribution to MBS page. [[User:Tamagochita|Tamagochita]] ([[User talk:Tamagochita|talk]]) 00:54, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
|}
:[[User:Tamagochita]]: Thanks!...I really didn't do that much, but thanks, anyway! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:26, 17 December 2017 (UTC)


== You've been mentioned ==

Hello Huldra. Your ARBPIA tag at [[Talk:Linda Sarsour]] is being discussed at [[WT:AE#Scope of article sanctions]]. You can add your own comment if you wish. Thanks, [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 18:01, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
::Ok, I have answered at [[WT:AE#Scope of article sanctions]], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:23, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

== Khalida Jarrar ==

Glad you caught that, which I missed though I follow that story. Pure fascism by <s>cunts</s>arseholes (excuse the euphemism, but in my chauvinist dialect it has more bite than 'pricks') who never seem to have learnt the lesson of hundreds of memoirs of an earlier epoch, like [[Carlo Levi]]'s [[Christ Stopped at Eboli]]- Indeed it makes their life under fascism look comfortable. Ugh! Have a good NYear H, and as productive a 2018 as every year you've graced this place for the last decade or so. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:42, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
:[[User:Nishidani]], yeah, I was a bit embarrassed that I missed it back in July. I hope you fix my English..possible expand the bit. Google news for her name gives several sources. Also, I was brought up in a strictly non swearing household ...old habits die hard...I have never felt comfortable with this proliferation of profanities ...can we not call them, say ''imbecile fascists'' instead? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:15, 31 December 2017 (UTC) PS, btw, did you know I am the daugther of a terrorist? Thats right, from 1940 to 1945 my father was considered a terrorist by the rulers of the land. Some of the things he did (I learned this long after his death) carried a death sentence...''if'' he had been caught...which he, luckily, never was! PPS ....and the very best Good Year to you, too, Sir!
::Yeah sorry about that profanity, but even 'profanity' has a vulgar meaning in my linguistically promiscuous, cross-wired semantic field, 'pro+[https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fanny fanny]' etc. 'Imbecile' wouldn't fit, because people who run the Israeli version of the [[Stasi]] managing the occupation in the West Bank and Gaza are not 'stupid;' they are highly intelligent, and wear their calculated destruction of people's lives as a badge of honour, believing in the 'purity' of their ethnocide. As to terrorism, another point in common: one of my forebears was involved in genocide, and the other was an Irishman who murdered an English colonial usurper just after the [[Great Famine (Ireland)|genocidal Irish famine]]. We were raised in shame for the former, and a certain sense of justice honoured by the latter. And now to work. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 09:45, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
:::[[User:Nishidani]], well, I am not a linguist (I have a science background), so I am at a loss as to what word/s we should use. Something which implies insensitivity? I'm reminded of [[Hannah Arendt]]s definition, if I recall correctly, of evil being the lack of emphathy with the suffering of others. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:33, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

== Nabi Saleh vs. Nabi Salih ==
Hi - I saw you going around and cleaning up wrong refs to [[Nabi Saleh]] (I'm at fault for at least some of them) - obviously required given the article name. However, Why are we calling the West Bank village [[Nabi Salih]]? The vast majority of news reporting in English (as well as google search hits) is using Nabi Saleh (e.g. "Nabi Salih"+Tamimi garners 110 google news hits vs. 5880 google news for "Nabi Saleh"+Tamimi - and google search is similar). I suspect the village is more notable than [[Nabi Saleh]] the businessman - so if moved to Nabi Saleh, the disambig would be to the buisnessman - Nabi Saleh (Businessman). Thought however it would be best to ask you prior to initiating a move discussion.[[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 06:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Icewhiz]], I don't really have a strong opinion about this, but I note that the ARIJ use the name Nabi Salih, (as does the Pal.rem site), and we usually go with what name the ARIJ page uses. It is not difficult to clean it up...just look at that "what links here" button on the [[Nabi Saleh]] article, and you will find which are wrongly linked. I just hadn't done it in a while, which is why there were so many. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:12, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
:: They might be using an alphabet transliteration as opposed to doing it phonetically (where is sounds more like a non vocal e - the connection between the consonants here) - which is probably what everyone else is doing. Even if we do not move it (if the whole set is ARIJ consistent in the primary name it would not make sense to move just one) - it might make sense to have the business man with a DAG (businessman), he is not linked much it would seem, and have a redirect at the one with the e. We should probably also have the e spelling as a variant at least in the village article - in this case it is more common.[[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 20:26, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
:::[[User:Icewhiz]], That sounds sensible, ok, lets move [[Nabi Saleh]] to [[Nabi Saleh (businessman)]], and then make [[Nabi Saleh]] a redir to [[Nabi Salih]]? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:13, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
::::Ok, done, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:39, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

== Motion: Palestine-Israel articles (January 2018) ==

:''The following is cross-posted from the [[Special:Permalink/818633787#Motion:_Palestine-Israel_articles_(January_2018)|Arbitration Committee noticeboard]].''
The Arbitration Committee has resolved by [[Special:Permalink/818630393#Version_2|motion]] that:

{{ivmbox|1=The [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#General 1RR restriction|General 1RR prohibition]] of the {{RFARlinks|Palestine-Israel articles}} is amended to read:
:Each editor is limited to one revert per page per 24 hours on any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours<u> of the first revert made to their edit</u>. Reverts made to enforce the [[WP:ARBPIA3|General Prohibition]] are exempt from the provisions of this motion. Also, the [[WP:3RRNO|normal exemptions apply]]. Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.}}

For the Arbitration Committee, '''[[User:L235|Kevin]]''' (<small>aka</small> [[User:L235|L235]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[User talk:L235#top|t]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]]) 18:15, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
: Discuss this at: '''[[Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Motion: Palestine-Israel articles (January 2018)]]'''

== 1948 Palestine War ==

I kindly ask you to r[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:1948_Palestine_war evise your vote!] (in keep ?) following the different sources that I have brought on this naming issue. [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 06:29, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

== 1RR ==
Note you broke 1rr with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuafat&action=history], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuafat&diff=821015663&oldid=818660024] (yesterday's edit also contained a non trivial revert). Besides the 1rr, the text you restored is not technically accurate as resident status was not something that could be refused - this was the default outcome. "Accepting" is not in the NYT source, it does say "most refused, choosing permanent residency instead." which is misleading in implying a choice, but is not incorrect (by choosing to refuse, essentially they chose the default which was residency). "Accepting" is incorrect. There is also a question here of UNDUE - but on that we shall disagree.[[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 20:40, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Icewhiz]], from my understanding, I did not break the 1RR, as the sentence you removed (and I reinserted today) had been in the article since at least last year. ''If'' I had inserted it yesterday, then of course it would have been a 1RR violation for me to reinesert it again, today. But I didn't. (If I am wrong in my understanding here, I hope some page stalker will tell me.)
::As to the wording of the sentence, we should discuss that on the talk page. Though I dont see how "Accepting" is incorrect? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:56, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
::: You made two separate reverts to different blocks of text - yesterday's edit also contained a revert (removing " in a move not internationally recognized" in conjunction with a misleading edit summary - "adding 1961 info, ce" - this is not a copy edit nor 1961 info). Today's action was also a revert and within 24hrs. I can not fix (without 1rring myself) the text you endorsed by reverting me - which is incorrect - as residents of Eastern Jerusalem did accept PR - it was bestowed upon them regardless of what they wished - if you insist on retaining this sentence, at the very least you should correct the error.[[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 21:10, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
::::Can you clarify what the 1RR is with your diffs and Huldra's diffs? From what I can tell, you removed something from the article and then Huldra reverted, that is not a 1RR. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 21:11, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
::::: Sure. Huldra reverted me today, that's obvious. But the diff from 17 jan also contains a revert [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuafat&diff=821015663&oldid=818660024]. The two reverts are to different sections of the article, but they are both reverts for 1rr (or 3rr) purposes.[[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 21:17, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
::::::I removed the sentence "in a move not internationally recognized" as A: some countries recognises it, and B: that it was a complicated issue, and it should be discussed in the linked [[Jordanian annexation of the West Bank]], not in each and every city or village on the West Bank. Icewhiz then removed a sentence which had been in the article at least since last year, I reverted him today. I have asked [[User talk:Sandstein]] for advice here,
:::::: As to the sentence itself, [[User:Icewhiz]]: you say that PR was bestowed upon them regardless of what they (residents of Eastern Jerusalem) wished...that is not quite correct is it? If they had chosen citizenship, then they would not have gotten the PR status. So they did have a choice.... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:23, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

I've been asked to comment. But I can't offer advice unless somebody indicates to me four diffs: the two supposed reverts, and the two edits that they revert. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 21:33, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Sandstein]]:
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuafat&type=revision&diff=821015663&oldid=818660024 22:59, 17 January 2018] my first edit
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuafat&type=revision&diff=821073687&oldid=821073565 06:37, 18 January 2018] Icewhiz removal of other stuff, stuff which has been in the article since at least last year
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuafat&type=revision&diff=821165326&oldid=821073687 20:16, 18 January 2018] My reverting Icewhiz, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:40, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Sandstein]]: ok, that is 3 diffs, but hopefully there is no need to study old history of the artickle, to find ''when'' the stuff Icewhiz took out was inserted (it was there before this 1st January.) Icewhiz argues that since I removed some stuff, although ''different'' stuff, twice, in 24 hours, that is breaking the 1RR. Is it? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:53, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
::Well, this is one revert. But I can't determine what the edit of 22:59, 17 January 2018 could be a revert of. And it would be up to those who claim that it is a revert to show why that might be so. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 21:59, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
:::[[User:Sandstein]] Well, on 22:59, 17 January I removed the sentence "in a move not internationally recognized"...that sentence [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuafat&type=revision&diff=632997464&oldid=632734577 was added] by now blocked sock [[User:Keramiton]] [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:09, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
::::In my view, removing text that has existed in the article for 3+ years is not in any meaningful sense a revert. Who added it doesn't matter, though. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 22:24, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Sandstein]]:ok, thank you. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:27, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
{{od}}
Just to let you know you did violate DS on water supply. Your revert of the original person may not have counted, but I reverted you and therefore you can't reinstate that edit for 24 hours, that's not necessarily the same as 1RR, it's DS where you can't reinsert for 24 hours. That, and you also reinserted when there is no consensus to insert. Please revert and use the talk page and gain consensus. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 04:04, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Sir Joseph]]: nope, I believe you are wrong. I am not the "original author" (I believe that credit belongs to [[User:NYCJosh]]), so, AFAIK, only the ordinary 24 hour rule apply. As for consensus, I believe there have been 3 ''for'' including the material ([[User:NYCJosh]], [[User:Al-Andalusi]], [[User:Huldra]]), and 2 ''for not'' including the material ([[User:Icewhiz]], [[User:Sir Joseph]]). You can hardy call that a consensus for ''not'' including the material.
:Having said all that, the text definitely can be improved, let us work for that, shall we? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 05:05, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
::I think you might want to open yet another clarification. In this case, you are the original editor, so I or someone else can revert, but you can't until 24 hours pass. I don't think we track original edits and I don't think that was the intent of the edict. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 14:53, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
:::Again, to repeat, I was not the original author of the material, I do not believe the 24 hour rule (since reverted) apply to each and every editor, only the first, original author. But in any case, I will ask Sandstein for a clarification, again, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:16, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

== News ==

Z. vol 1 is in my hands, but since it has 600 pages it will take a while to process. I'll let you know. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 07:22, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Zero0000]] ok, great, looking forward to it. I'm not running out of work in the meantime, though...(trying to add all the 1961 and 1967 data to the West Bank places: I fear I'm going to die of boredom before I'm done...) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:12, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

== Solid waste ==
Thanks for your help, Huldra. I added an improved version to the "West Bank" article. Please have a look in the next day or two.--[[User:NYCJosh|NYCJosh]] ([[User talk:NYCJosh|talk]]) 04:14, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

== Could this new created article be protected against biased vandalism? ==

Hi, after much research I have posted the new article (from scratch): [[Marcello Ferrada de Noli]]

When you find the time, would you please visit the talked page, here: [[User talk:Inkerifi]]

I wonder of there is any possibility to protect the article from prompt erasing, while waiting for the admins to review it.

I thank you in advance for ASAP reply.

brgds,

[[User:Inkerifi|Inkerifi]] ([[User talk:Inkerifi|talk]]) 22:28, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, [[User:Inkerifi]], I'll take a look, and fix som refs, etc. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

::::Thanks!
::::[[User:Inkerifi|Inkerifi]] ([[User talk:Inkerifi|talk]]) 22:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

:::Sorry to bother again. The article has been now tagged for deletion. Sincerely, I don't understand the reasons given. The admin refers only that a ''previous'' AfD discussion "assessed his notability in considerable depth." But this is exactly the point with the ''new'' article, which introduces 55 NEW verifiable references (55 new out of total 88 references!) demonstrating that Wikipedia notability criteria would be met (i.e. ''central'' participation in the the foundation of the MIR, and international recognition of research work. Both issues disputed in the old AfD discussion on the base of poor sourcing). I mean, if the previous article would have had these new references / reliable third party sources, its deletion wouldn't have occur?

:::Another question, would you know why the article's talk page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli), in which I explain why & how this is a new article, it has also been tagged with "This page was nominated for deletion on April 22, 2017. The result of the discussion was delete."?

:::The only user so far (for "delete") in the discussion, says, "I've found no sources appearing online in the nine months since the AfD to suggest the subject's gained the notability he did not previously have". That is neither accurate nor relevant: the new sources added about notability are both publications before and after 28 April 2017 (principally, they are NEW sources of information to be consider in the discussion, too –as those references didn't exist in the previous article). An illustration: In the talk-page explanation I mention the search in "Google News". Of the N= 230 results (227 in today's search) only n= 37 correspond to news published before 28 April 2017.

:::I would be grateful for your comment, before deciding how to meet this.

:::Thanks again

[[User:Inkerifi|Inkerifi]] ([[User talk:Inkerifi|talk]]) 08:04, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Inkerifi]], to take the easy thing first: the note on the top of [[Talk:Marcello Ferrada de Noli]] is just common standard on Wikipedia, when an article has been for [[WP:AfD]], or any other noteworthy thing (like if it has been a [[WP:DYK]]), it is always noted on the top of the talk page.
:::::Secondly, as the article has been nominated for deletion, ...I consider this a mainly political move, as de Noli has opinions which do not go down well with many Wikipedia editors. Having said this, I would ''strongly'' advise you to step back until the [[WP:AfD]] has finished, if you get too more involved now, it could seem provocative. My 2 cents: The best thing you could do now, is probably ''not'' to log into Wikipedia for the next two weeks, or so. Or, if you do log in: edit a completely different area, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

::::Thanks <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Inkerifi|Inkerifi]] ([[User talk:Inkerifi#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Inkerifi|contribs]]) 21:31, 16 February 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Thanks ==


Hi [[User:Huldra|Huldra]], thank you so much for the WP links. [[User:Inkerifi|Inkerifi]] ([[User talk:Inkerifi|talk]]) 08:25, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
==70 CE==
I would suggest voluntary withdrawing the RM, rethinking, agreeing a wording on Talk page and resubmitting in a weeks time. It might seem hassle, but you've got much more chance of it passing if you do that. Cheers. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 08:19, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks, [[User:In ictu oculi]], but for the moment it looks as if it will pass, anyway. (But I agree: I did not go ahead with this in a very good way...due to my inexperience with [[WP:RM]]), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:11, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
:::That's okay. As I said I think it is a legitimate RM, so didn't want to see it wrecked unfairly because of an awkward start. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 08:09, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

== Village maps ==

Hi, see [[File:Dura20K.png|50px]]. I made it by screen capture. It would be easy to make such close-up 1940s maps for most Palestine locations, but it would be quite a lot of effort. Is it worth it? [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 04:22, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Zero0000]] Thanks...I dont think it is worth it for ''all'' Palestine locations (at least not at this stage, there are quite a few things which would come higher on my priority list). However, it could be ''very'' useful for places in highly contested areas, say places in/close to the [[seam zone]]..especially if the [[Green Line (Israel)|Green Line]] and/or the [[Israeli West Bank barrier|West Bank barrier]] could be added to it? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:57, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
::: Just let me know of examples that you consider of high priority. I can make maps like [[:File:DeganiaRegion.png|this]] too, which compare old and new. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 04:24, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks! Both [[Saffa, Ramallah]], [[Beit Sira]], [[Bil'in]] and [[al-Midya]] would be high on my priority list...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:09, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
::::: Regarding Dura, take a look at [http://www.archives.gov.il/en/archives/#/Archive/0b071706800225ea/File/0b0717068070c6c9 this]. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:28, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

==Magdala==
I am going on a two day trip (by coincidence to the Kinneret) so I won't have time to work on [[Magdala]]. As it seems, it shouldn't be too difficult to add the correct information. There are the two Hadashot Arkh. sources I found that are located at the lead section ([http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/report_detail_eng.aspx?id=1236&mag_id=115 one] and [http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/report_detail_eng.aspx?id=2304 two] and also you noted two in [[Talk:Migdal, Israel]]. [https://books.google.com/books?id=tNioAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA56 The Ressurection of Mary Magdalene] also seems useful. The article about [[Tarichaea]] should be merged into this article. Clrealy all modern sources say it is Magdala, and the two Hadashot sources I linked above say clearly that there are archeological hints that these are the same place.

Do you think you can begin doing these edits while I'm gone? Seems to me like high-priority, since Mary is quite important in Christianity and this article receives some 400 views daily on avarage.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:36, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]] Mercy, mercy! ...I'm presently quite occupied with cleaning up/sorting out [[Ein Karem]]..and its various churches (They get 100++ view per day). If I finish that, yeah, I'll take a look. (PS, when you cite books.google., try not to use the automatic books.google.co.il, instead use books.google.com...that way people outside Israel has a some chance of reading it, too), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:47, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::Am abandoning the Magdala article for now. I still got some four days before going my vaccation from committing atrocities against the Palestinians ends, so if you need any help with something, maybe find some Hebrew sources for something, I'll be glad help.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 19:15, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
:::Ok, I am still working on [[Ein Karem]]...just starting on its churches, where there is still tons of work to be done. If, (and thats a big IF, I finish that and dont get distracted too much)...I might look at the Magdala articles. (And yeah: writing articles (instead of just following other editors around, criticising their work, as some do) is indeed a headache inducing activity at times.... But in the end, so much, ''much'' more rewarding).
::: And [[User:Bolter21]], please don't use language such as above ("my vaccation from committing atrocities against the Palestinians ends"), at least not on my talk page. I assume it is "the cool way" to talk for teenage members of IDF...but it is ''extremely'' insulting towards my Palestinian friends...(one or two of whom have had several friends killed by IDF), and who would wonder what the heck I am doing here. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:44, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
::::Did mean no insult to anyone. It wasn't meant as a "cool way" to talk, but rather to refer to my imprisonment in cynical words as I did a few words ago. It is not a cool way to talk for teenagers, it is just a cynical way to talk in an environment that clrearly doesn't like the IDF. I usually say it to my leftist/pacifist friends, rather than the people in my unit. And by the way, in my six month of busy activity in Jericho, I did not commit, nor did I see anyone commit any atrocity against Palestinians, not that I am 100% morally happy with what we do. Anyway, take my apology.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:08, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::Ok, cynical, or cool, either way it is not appreciated. And apology is accepted. (Just please don't do it again), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:15, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
::::::I do like Bolter. He speaks from the heart, is open-minded, and is always learning. [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 21:54, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

== Interiors ==

Sorry for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ARachel%27s_Tomb&type=revision&diff=836792670&oldid=836792403 this], I was joking! Couldn't resist... [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 21:50, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
:<facepalm> [[User:Onceinawhile]] sorry for being dim, I'm not accustomed to humour in the IP area. Btw that [[Al-Khazneh]] picture could have been taken dozens of places in Petra, (e.g. in the famous toilet!) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:57, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

== Ottoman censuses ==

Do you know where I can get acsess to Ottoman censuses from Palestine-EY from the 1596? And is there an earlier census?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 14:55, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
::This information can partially be had in the book: {{cite book | last1= Hütteroth |first1=Wolf-Dieter |first2=Kamal | last2=Abdulfattah | title = Historical Geography of Palestine, Transjordan and Southern Syria in the Late 16th Century |url= https://books.google.com/books?id=wqULAAAAIAAJ |year = 1977 | publisher = Erlanger Geographische Arbeiten, Sonderband 5. Erlangen, Germany: Vorstand der Fränkischen Geographischen Gesellschaft|isbn= 3-920405-41-2}}. Good luck![[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 18:23, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
:::I don't have this book. Is that the only available source?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 19:17, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
::::If you live here, in Israel, the book is available at the Hebrew University National Library (Givat Ram campus). The National Library is open to the public, but one must present his ID before entering the University campus. If you are not a student there, you can still access all of their books and manuscripts while sitting in the library.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 19:22, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Bolter21]]: email me, and I'll see what we can fix (I have just emailed you my email address). As for earlier census, yeah sure... Just for a start: there are several from the Safad district, all discussed in Rhode, 1979, ..and for the Jerusalem district, discussed in Toledano, 1984. (Full refs at [[User:Huldra/HA]]) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:22, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::Btw, I noticed that [[Adam Zertal]] went into more and more detail about the Hütteroth and Abdulfattah census for each book in the ''The Manasseh Hill Country Survey'' series.....in the last ones, he gave what the villagers had paid in taxes for ''each and every'' product, xx [[Akçe]] for wheat and yy A. for barley, etc. One day....I thought I would go through [[User:Huldra/HA]] and do the same, in addition to specifying ''what kind'' of taxes (that is: the p, m, and [[Ziamet|z]])...alas...I really do need to read up on the Ottoman tax forms before I do that.....Ah well, one day....... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:12, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

== Van Egmond van de Nijenburg listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Van Egmond van de Nijenburg]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Van Egmond van de Nijenburg'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 May 28#Van Egmond van de Nijenburg|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <small>—&nbsp;[[User:Godsy|<span style="color:#39A78E;">'''Godsy'''</span>]]<sup>&nbsp;([[User_talk:Godsy|TALK]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/Godsy|<span style="color:Goldenrod;">CONT</span>]])</sub></small> 02:13, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

== occupied ==

I think Jordanian occupied is the correct phrasing, just like the Israeli annexation hasnt been recognized the Jordanian one was not either. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 22:11, 30 May 2018 (UTC)</small>

:[[User:Nableezy]] It was discussed at [[Talk:Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank/Archive_3#Requested_move_23_March_2017]]...and the result was that the article name was changed from [[Jordanian occupation of the West Bank]] to [[Jordanian annexation of the West Bank]]...so basically I am following the form which was put down there, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:19, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
::I dont think that actually justifies that. There isnt any disagreement that Jordan occupied the area, and Jordan's annexation of it does not render moot that it was not accepted, just like Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem does not allow people to write that it is Israeli territory. The annexation isnt relevant in the context of that article anyway, whereas the Jordanian military control, ie occupation, is. Anyway, this is just going to lead to people removing Israeli-occupied with that as a justification. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 22:26, 30 May 2018 (UTC)</small>
:::[[User:Nableezy]], well, there are a zillion sources saying that East Talpiot is Israeli occupied....(including that first BBC ref), so if anyone is trying to remove that, they will face problems, to put it diplomatically. As for the Jordanian rule/occupation/annexation: from what I have seen: it was actually Israeli sources, ''after'' 1967, which pushed the expression "Jordanian occupation"...exactly to get the world to see the "Israeli occupation" as nothing different from what had existed before 1967.... (Just see which editors started and "owned" that [[Jordanian occupation of the West Bank]] article..) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:36, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

== Volume and page ==

Did my best. Gave URL, takes user to right place. Cheers, [[User:Arminden|Arminden]] ([[User talk:Arminden|talk]]) 09:41, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Arminden]] Heh, no worries....thanks for finding the Pringle, 1997 ref! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:13, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== ''BLP issues on British politics articles'' arbitration case opened ==

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/BLP issues on British politics articles]]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/BLP issues on British politics articles/Evidence]]. '''Please add your evidence by June 22, 2018, which is when the evidence phase closes.''' You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/BLP issues on British politics articles/Workshop]]. For a guide to the arbitration process, see [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration]]. For the Arbitration Committee, '''[[User:L235|Kevin]]''' (<small>aka</small> [[User:L235|L235]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[User talk:L235#top|t]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]]) via [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 14:17, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:L235@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/BLP_issues_on_British_politics_articles/Non-party_mailing_list&oldid=844980328 -->

== 1RRR vio ==
You broke the "original authorship" provision with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bernard_Lewis&diff=845038306&oldid=844711779][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bernard_Lewis&diff=845157462&oldid=845154833]. Note that the lack of a ref (given the text said where it came from) was the least of my concerns. [[Juan Cole]], while also an academic, is known for a bit more than that.[[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 20:26, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Icewhiz]], no, note that I was ''not'' the one who inserted the Juan Cole stuff; that was already in the article when I expanded it yesterday. (And I have no idea as to who originally inserted it....but I doubt it was me as I always source my stuff, as you would know). As for saying " is known for a bit more than that"; well, the same could be said about [[Bernard Lewis]].....Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:33, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
:: Right. Sorry. The diff tool had this on a new paragraph which confused me.[[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 20:40, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Ok, we all mess up at times...;) Thanks for at least letting me know (of my alleged mistake)...and not reporting me on AE directly...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:45, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

== 1RR vio ==
You just broke the 1RR restriciton at [[Abu Gosh]] by twice removing the bit about Chaim Weizmann. Self revert it so I don't have to report you. [[User:Attack Ramon|Attack Ramon]] ([[User talk:Attack Ramon|talk]]) 20:48, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Attack Ramon]], there is no way that that UNDUE info will stay in the article...but have it your way...for a couple of hours...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:56, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
:::If you want to claim UNDUE, take it to a Talk page discussion. If you want to try your luck at gaming 1RR by reverting at 24H hrs + a few minutes, have at it, I won't warn you again. [[User:Attack Ramon|Attack Ramon]] ([[User talk:Attack Ramon|talk]]) 21:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Do you seriously think that every place [[Chaim Weizmann]] went, needs to have that in their history? [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:04, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Not necessarily, but removal of material that's been in the article for a long time requires discussion, not false edit summaries ("e.g "removing duplication") and not unilateral edit warring - like I wrote, take it to the talkpage. [[User:Attack Ramon|Attack Ramon]] ([[User talk:Attack Ramon|talk]]) <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 21:08, 14 June 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::::The whole article has been a big mess up and an embarrassment for years, I was trying to clean it up ...and finding sources like [[Muqaddasi]] (who, according [[Nasir Khusraw]] wrote about the place)....instead I need to deal with this. Ah well, you sure live up to your nick! (And yeah: it was duplications, how many zillion ways do you need to say that the villagers were friendly with the Yishuv?) Ok, over to talk, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:19, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
[[User:Attack Ramon]] and you broke 1RR its seems to me the rule is not working at all --[[user:Shrike|Shrike]] ([[User talk:Shrike|talk]]) 07:19, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
:[[user:Shrike]] Have you even ''looked'' at the stupidity you reverted to?? Oh well, I will take that to talk, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:14, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

== missed you the mostest ==

just popping in to say hi my love. [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 19:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Tiamut]]!! ..just seeing you here made my day!! hope you stick around, you are soooooooo missed.....,much love, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:18, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::: will be in & out for a bit i think. love to you too dear. [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 19:21, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

== Can we reference ARIJ? ==

Can't quite remember what was the issue last time. Can ARIJ's village profile be referenced in Wikipedia or there is some sort of a copyright problem with it?--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 17:01, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Bolter21]], no, I don't know about any copyright problems, there is a RfC open, though, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:09, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Might help, at least a doddering me, to have a link to the RfC.:) [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:12, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Heh, I couldn't remember, but found it: [[Talk:Jabel_Mukaber#External_links]], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:17, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Can you do me a favour and only add Deir Hajla's ARIJ as a reference to [[Deir Hajla]]? Was supposed to have another say (stay at/day) home but was called back to base on Sunday morning.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 12:17, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Bolter21]]...you can copy from [[User:Huldra/Deir Hajla]], or, alternatively, delete [[Deir Hajla]] and move [[User:Huldra/Deir Hajla]] to [Deir Hajla]].....[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:19, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
::I can't because am in the base currently and only have access to phone app.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 16:05, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I've done the move by copying and pasting in Huldra's draft. Is this what you wanted Stav? [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 16:30, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Even better. Thanks.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 06:24, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Well, thanks for prompting the formation of that article. If you hadn't put it up, no doubt the hyper-scrupulous H., would have kept that precious info in her sandbox archives. It would be invaluable, if you can access this and other such sites personally, to sneak some time and take snaps and mug up some of the local literature and quote it. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 07:34, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
{{od}}
Well, of articles that should be moved to main space one day, is [[User:Huldra/Maqam Sitt Sukayna]] and [[User:Huldra/Malaha]] (both have a commons category and an article on he.wp). And [[User:Huldra/Jisr al Majami]] definitely deserves its own article. [[User:Huldra/Jisr al-Sidd]] is a bit more doubtful, while both [[User:Huldra/Nabi Kifl]] and [[User:Huldra/Nabi Bulus]] needs tons of work.
Alas, I think we should expand [[Deir Hajla]] first....[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:30, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:Well, had I applied that perfectionist highbar, which I admire beyond words, I'd never have written more than 50 of the 650 articles on aboriginal tribes. I'd send you a dozen barnstars if they ever had the appearance of roses. You're a remarkable editor. All replies are forbidden.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:56, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/BLP issues on British politics articles/Proposed decision]] ==

Hello Huldra, I'm {{u|Cameron11598}}. I am one of the [[WP:AC/C|Arbitration Committee's clerks]]. I've moved your comments to their own section at the [[Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/BLP issues on British politics articles/Proposed decision|British Politics Articles Proposed Discussion talk page]] as they did not comply with the requirement listed at the top of the page "Therefore, with the exception of arbitrators and clerks, all editors must create a section for their statement and comment only in their own section." I have been asked to enforce this as a clerk action by a member of the Arbitration Committee. If you have any questions please feel free to either ping me here or leave a message on my [[User talk:Cameron11598|talk page]]. --[[User:Cameron11598|Cameron<sub><small>11598</small></sub>]] <sup>[[User Talk:Cameron11598|(Talk)]] </sup> 21:46, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Cameron11598]], ok, got it, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:53, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

== Just....... Thank You! ==


[http://{{subst:The%20Barnstar%20of%20Integrity|1=.%20] [[User:RebeccaSaid|RebeccaSaid]] ([[User talk:RebeccaSaid|talk]]) 15:51, 22 July 2018 (UTC)}}
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Barnstar of Integrity Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Mensch5.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Integrity'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | . [[User:RebeccaSaid|RebeccaSaid]] ([[User talk:RebeccaSaid|talk]]) 15:51, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
|}

And to ''integritas'' (sive perfectio), one might add ''et debita proportio sive consonantia, et iterum claritas,'' per Aquinas's definition of beauty.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 16:32, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

:{{User|RebeccaSaid}}, {{User|Nishidani}}: Whaw, thank ''you''! And RebeccaSaid: if you are fed up and disgusted by Wikipedia just now, I quite understand you. But remember this: Wikipedia is a big place, ''huge'', in fact, but if you are prepared to make the effort then you ''can'' make a difference...Whatever your choice is: I wish you the best for the future, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:20, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

== Asher Weisgan ==

Hello, I recently created [[2005 Shiloh settlement shooting|this article]] on the Shiloh settlement shooting in 2005. Thanks for linking to the Asher Weisgan article I did not know existed. My question: now that I created the article, should I start an RFC for a merge proposal? Or, should it just be redirected?[[User:TheGracefulSlick|TheGracefulSlick]] ([[User talk:TheGracefulSlick|talk]]) 06:41, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
:Nevermind, the article was immediately redirected without discussion. Sorry—looks like my question was a waste of time![[User:TheGracefulSlick|TheGracefulSlick]] ([[User talk:TheGracefulSlick|talk]]) 10:16, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:TheGracefulSlick]], I don't really have any very strong opinion about wether the article about the murders should be called [[2005 Shiloh settlement shooting]], or [[Asher Weisgan]]....but probably I would go for the first option (ie [[2005 Shiloh settlement shooting]]).....as this is about much more than Asher Weisgan, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:35, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

== Baklawa for you ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG|135px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Always nice to run into someone defending the subaltern. I would have sent you knafe, but apparently wiki doesn't know what that is. [[User:Rosguill|Rosguill]] ([[User talk:Rosguill|talk]]) 23:27, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
|}

[[User:Rosguill]], yummi, thanks!! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:30, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
:Can I have one too? The Jewish people have been oppressed for ages. Just kidding. :) [[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 23:34, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
::oh, and [[User:Rosguill]]: try [[Kanafeh]], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:36, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

== Help with Arabic requested ==

Hello, I picked you at random because of your contributions to an article about British currency in the Middle East, but as you don't have any Babel boxes all I can ask is, how well is your Arabic? As I need some help with it. Also ping if you reply as I don't watch this page. --[[User:Donald Trung|Donald Trung]] ([[User talk:Donald Trung|talk]]) 16:45, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
: Hi [[User:Donald Trung]], sorry, my Arabic is virtually equal to 0. When I need someone to help me with Arabic, I usually ask [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Makeandtoss this user]: he is a native Arabic speaker, from [[Jordan]], and he has always been very helpful, good luck, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:10, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
:: Thank you. --[[User:Donald Trung|Donald Trung]] ([[User talk:Donald Trung|talk]]) 20:44, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

== Question about 30/500 protection ==

Hi, I'm curious if you are aware how 30/500 protection came about in the IP area. I tried looking up the ArbCom case but did not see it mentioned. If you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. --[[User:K.e.coffman|K.e.coffman]] ([[User talk:K.e.coffman|talk]]) 04:34, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:K.e.coffman]], the 30/500 rule came into effect after the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3]]. See my [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Evidence#Evidence_presented_by_Huldra]], especially under the header "1RR". [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:19, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
:::Ah, thank you! I must have been looking at the older case. --[[User:K.e.coffman|K.e.coffman]] ([[User talk:K.e.coffman|talk]]) 20:44, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

== Appreciation ==

[[User:Huldra]], I want you to know that I bear no harsh feelings against you, and as I often said before, I appreciate the work that you do here, on Wikipedia. I think that I have even called you a "work horse" in one of our past communications, if I recall correctly. You've helped me on some of the coordinates in some of our jointly edited articles. I will make an effort to study more about the books that you suggested. Hopefully, we'll continue to make Wikipedia a very, very reliable encyclopedia, based on the best world-wide collaborative efforts ever put together by mankind, and with a whole range of academic sources. Good luck![[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 23:30, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Davidbena]], well, thanks, the same to you! I didn't start this on AN/I (or ask for it). Actually, as I said, I think you are one of the far too few editors here who actually put in an effort in trying to study the history. (Though yeah; I am sort of tired of always being called an anti-Israeli POV-pusher whenever I point out something against the rules....) (And yeah; you could be bit less stubborn?)
:One books I would recommend you, is [[Blaming the Victims]]; it is a few years since I read it, but I recall it as eminently readable. Another is [[Meron Benvenisti]]s ''Sacred Landscape: Buried History of the Holy Land Since 1948'', Good luck, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:46, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

== Looking for Coordinates ==

Hi, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]]. Once more I'm in need of your assistance in helping me fix the coordinates for a village (ruin) called "Tibna" in Map no. 17 of Conder & Kitchener's SWP map seen [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Survey_of_Western_Palestine_1880.17.jpg here], on the bottom left side, between 35.00 and 35.5. In other maps, the same ruin is called ''Khirbet et Tabbāna'' which you can see [http://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/Hebrew/digitallibrary/pages/viewer.aspx?presentorid=NLI_MAPS_JER&docid=NNL_MAPS_JER002367636#|FL21693639 here]. Click on "+" in the lower middle, select map 15-12, and go to location 154.7/122.4. In the Israeli site ''Amudanan'', it is found [https://amudanan.co.il/#!wiki=P622424 here], under the name '''ח. תבנה'''. I will need these coordinates for an article that I'm working on. By the way, we in Israel owe our gratitude to the Arabs for preserving ancient Hebrew names. Thanks.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 18:52, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

:[[User:Davidbena]], try Grid number 154/122, 31°41′40″N 35°02′40″E (Oh, and many Palestinians say the names were there before the Jews....), cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:15, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

::Yes, that could indeed be if the names were inherited from the [[Canaanites]], a displaced people who had lived in the country before the Jews. The Arabs (Nabateans) who came from Ishmael and the Israelites who came from Isaac were actually relatives through Abraham, so that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Anyway, thanks for the coordinates.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 21:27, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
::::[[User:Davidbena]] well, now we are into Biblical (or possible Talmudic) territory again...I prefer archeology. Good luck with your article, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:32, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== An alert you gave ==

I went to this editor's talk page to see if I should give them an alert, but found you'd already given one.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy355&diff=838707991&oldid=813503246] Somehow it didn't get signed (or dated) and since it says "contact me or any other editor" I wonder if you want to fix it. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 11:45, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
:Thanks, I just signed it. I assume he could have seen who put it there by the history, but just in case...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:04, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

== ARCA closed ==

Hi Huldra, the [[Special:Permalink/856358804#Clarification_request:_Palestine-Israel_articles_3|''Palestine-Israel articles 3'' arbitration clarification request]] has been closed. For the Arbitration Committee, '''[[User:L235|Kevin]]''' (<small>aka</small> [[User:L235|L235]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[User talk:L235#top|t]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]]) 17:18, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

== Ein el Qudeirat -- Any advice? ==

Hello, Huldra. Feel free to let me know if you're not interested in looking into this at all, but I figured if anyone would have advice, it would be you. Over at [[Kadesh (biblical)]], the article notes that the biblical Kadesh might well have been located at present-day Ein el Qudeirat (Ain el Qudeirat, Tell Qudeirat, Ain al Qudeirat, etc.). I noticed there's no article on the Ein el Qudeirat. A quick Google Books search shows that all the top results on Ein el Qudeirat discuss its possible relationship to Kadesh, but I've got a hunch Ein el Qudeirat, as an actually existing modern site, could use its own Wikipedia article.

Because I mostly work on biblical articles, I was wondering if you could steer me toward any resources that might address the actual modern-day site (I assume from "Tell" there's a heap of archaeological ruins there, but I don't know if there's a village or anything). Feel free to help me out here as little or as much as you like. I just figured given how often you show up in articles in that part of the world you might be the first person to check with. [[User:Alephb|Alephb]] ([[User talk:Alephb|talk]]) 21:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Alephb]], I generally like to split these articles into A. The Biblical story; B actual settlements on the ground. Now [[Kadesh (biblical)]] looks like a mixture of the two, (with the coords of Ain el Qudeirat), so yeah, I think it could be a good idea to split them. (We have a similar thing at [[Adullam]], which is presently placed in Israel, but for nearly a millennium was placed by [[Tuqu']], on the West Bank. The result is that there are a lot of pictures on commons which are from the place by Tuqu'...but presently points only to ''other'' Abdullam in Israel....in short: a mess.)
:I tried to find any articles of the Rudolph Cohen excavation (who is referred to in the [[Kadesh (biblical)]] article..but no luck on http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/search_eng.aspx. Perhaps [[User:Zero0000]] can help?) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:29, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
::Well, whether or not Zero finds anything, at the very least I've got a new website to use when looking places up. [[User:Alephb|Alephb]] ([[User talk:Alephb|talk]]) 00:04, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
:::{{Re|Alephb}} I almost never get success with that search page. It seems excessively fussy. Try a Google search with "site:hadashot-esi.org.il" added as a search term. Using "Kadesh" or "Qudeirat" as the other search word, you will find several relevant hits. [http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/Report_Detail_Eng.aspx?id=25410 This one] is a near miss (literally: 6 km). I will look in other places too, but I won't have time in the immediate future for a proper search. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 01:41, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
::::This is all helpful. Thank you both. [[User:Alephb|Alephb]] ([[User talk:Alephb|talk]]) 02:58, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
::::: {{Re|Alephb}} [https://israelfinkelstein.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/kadesh-barnea-tel-aviv-37-1.pdf This article] is very useful. I can get hold of a ton of earlier archaeological articles including two by Cohen. But I don't have Cohen's final report, which was published as a book. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 03:39, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::{{Re|Zero0000}}, I think the bibliography of that article should be enough to get me going. For the name, I'm not sure if there's any generally observed practices that I should follow. I've seen Tel, Tell, Ain, Ein, 'Ain, I've seen el- with a hyphen, el without a hyphen, al- with a hyphen, al without a hyphen ... I hope there's some lazy way to avoid trying to collect some kind of statistics on all the permutations. Would it be too much to ask that whoever is in charge of English and whoever is in charge of Arabic to get together and come up with some spelling conventions? [[User:Alephb|Alephb]] ([[User talk:Alephb|talk]]) 03:55, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
[[User:Alephb]], one should keep in mind that the Hebrew Bible mentions a Kadesh (plain), without an additional name appended to it, and it also mentions Kadesh-barnea. The names for these two places are clearly described as different places in the [[Aramaic Targum]]s. Kadesh, whenever it is written by itself, is called ''Raqam'' (''Rekem'') = '''רקם''', while the other, Kadesh-barnea, is called ''Reḳam of Ǧayāh'' = '''רקם דגיאה''', with a clear distinction. You may be interested in seeing an article available on [[JSTOR]] [https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3209100.pdf?refreqid=search%3Ab413b57213158e1ab9a307220d1edc9f here], entitled, ''The Age of Abraham in the Negeb'' (1955), by [[Nelson Glueck]], where he writes on page 6: "'Ain el-Qudeirat, which is to be identified with Qadesh-barnea in Sinai." As for the other Kadesh, [[Josephus]] says that that place is [[Petra]], in Transjordan. I hope this helps you.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 19:06, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
:{{Re|Davidbena}}, this sort of thing is precisely why I'm thinking that the article about the biblical Kadesh(es) should be a separate Wikipedia article than the actual site known today as Ein el Qudeirat. While people can disagree over how many Kadeshes there were and whether Kadesh-barnea is the same as Kadesh, it seems to me that an article about the modern site of Ein el Qudeirat and what has been found there is also warranted. In the end, both articles should of course link out to each other. [[User:Alephb|Alephb]] ([[User talk:Alephb|talk]]) 19:12, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
::I agree with you, Alephb. I have always thought that there should be two separate articles on these two sites. '''BTW:''' Ein el Qudeirāt, or what is also called ''Tell Qudeirāt'' near Quseimah in the region of the central Negev, now belongs to Egypt (Ben-David Ben-Gad Hacohen, 1998 - pp. 28–29).[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 19:15, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, I've got the smallest little baby of an article now up at [[Tell el-Qudeirat]]. I'll probably keep picking away at adding content for a while, but of course any other contributions will be both welcome and appreciated. [[User:Alephb|Alephb]] ([[User talk:Alephb|talk]]) 00:48, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
::Looks good to me![[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 00:55, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

== Sokho ==

[[User:Huldra]], ''shalom''. I don't care what map you use, but could you please insert a map in the [[Sokho]] article?[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 23:39, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Davidbena]] I will...as soon as I have figured things out.... I think there might be a messup here...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:44, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks. BTW: There are several places called "Shweika" (Sokho). There's a place by this name near Hebron, which our article does not treat on, and there's another place near Tulkarim. This article refers to the Sokho in the Elah Valley, the one mentioned by Conder & Kitchener, by Guerin and by Robinson.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 23:49, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
::::[[User:Davidbena]] I am fully aware of that...we have been collecting sources for the one near Tulkarm here: [[Talk:Tulkarm#Shweikah]]. Alas, there is something wrong on Khirbet Tibnah, please see [[Talk:Khirbet Tibnah]], [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:53, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I am not an expert on coordinates, for which reason I have always asked you to assist me. Anyway, I did not put the coordinates in that article. Perhaps there, the person who put in the coordinates for the site in Samaria confused Timnat-heres (Kafl-heres) with the ruin Tibna in Samaria. As for the ruin of Tibna near Beit Shemesh, it is not listed in the SWP map produced by Conder & Kitchener. Here, they made no mention of the site. Strange! However, Tell Butashi is listed there (where most archaeologists claim should be identified with the original Timnah associated with the saga of Samson).[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 00:20, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::Huldra, I'm not sure if this will help you, but S. Notley and [[Ze'ev Safrai|Z. Safrai]] bring down the coordinates for a ''Tell Tibna'' in their book, "Eusebius, Onomasticon," p. 9, note 10. There, they write: "''Tell Tibna'' in northern Judea, grid ref. 16220 / 15715. In a stream-bed two klm. to the east of Tibna is a series of springs under the village of Hablata, thought to be Enaim עינים of Gen. 38:14." Eusebius writes: "Enaim, 'which is on the road to Timnah'...". It was a deserted place at the time of Eusebius.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 18:04, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
{{od}}
Good grief, [[User:Davidbena]], what a mess this is. I will revert your latest addition to [[Timnath-heres]]: [[Kifl Haris]] is not near to [[Deir Nidham]]! You have mixed up [[Timnath-heres]] with [[Khirbet Tibnah]]. And I will remove everything relating to [[Timnath-heres]] and [[Khirbet et-Tibbaneh]]/[[Timnah]] from the [[Khirbet Tibnah]] article, except having them as a See also links. And fix the location of [[Khirbet Tibnah]]. Btw, Finkelstein et al, 1997 p. 367 say that [[Khirbet Tibnah]] is [[Timnath-heres]](!), giving grid 16035/15725...and then he says the same about [[Kifl Haris]] on p. 460!!....(...tearing my hair out in frustration....) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:08, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
::Actually, I never said that Timnath-heres was Kifl-heres, although other scholars have thought that. I have NEVER once made an edit that states that as a fact, since it is only a speculation by certain scholars. In fact, I, for my part, have been faithful to the view of ''other'' scholars who hold that only ''Tibnah'', and ''Tibnah'' itself, should be recognised as the Timnath-serah. Also, for your information, I do not know who initially put the two sites into one article, although I merely expanded information on the second site. It is good that you've separated these two sites into separate articles.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 22:18, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Well, you did write it was near [[Deir Nidham]]...Anyway, I have replaced it with Finkelstein's references about the two places... I think we should keep as much as possible about the places in those articles, and NOT copy them over in an article about an old place, mentioned in the literature (such as [[Timnath-heres]]) ...as that just clutter things up, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:24, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
::::I agree. BTW: What I wrote about [[Deir Nidham]] refers specifically to the ruin called Khirbet Tibnah in Samaria, which is nearby, based on the SWP map.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 22:26, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
::::: Ok, if we can agree that such info should ''only'' be in the article about the place (ie [[Khirbet Tibnah]]) in the future, then that would be great...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:35, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
[[User:Huldra]], ''shalom''. I found the Palestine grid reference for ''Kh. Shuweika'' ([[Sokho]]) on the old 1928-1947 Jaffa: Survey of Palestine map at the National Library of Israel. There, it lists the grid as 148.2 / 120.7. The regular coordinates for this site are: 31<sup>o</sup>44'43.167" N / 34<sup>o</sup>58'50.305" E. I'd be happy if you can put this information in the Sokho article.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 17:34, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Davidbena]], done (though I haven't checked it, and didn't put the centimetre accuracy in the coord that you gave....still, hope it is ok), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:24, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
::THANKS a million, dear Huldra. I appreciate your worthy service! You are an asset here.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 00:52, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

== Schismatic Greek listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Schismatic Greek]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Schismatic Greek'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 September 26#Schismatic Greek|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 10:40, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

== West Bank revert ==

Hi! I saw you reverted my edit on the "West Bank" wiki page. The reason I included the Hebrew quotes is that a number of strict requirements were given on the West Bank talk page regarding the inclusion of the Hebrew term "Yehuda VeShomron" as a translation of the "West Bank" along with "HaGadah HaMa'aravit". The "not in citation" given tag that was added by another user was also a reason for that expansion, even though relevant quotes were already given in English in the references before the tag was added. Could you either self-revert your edit or make a point on the West Bank talk page regarding the Hebrew name that quotes in Hebrew should not be included or demanded since this is the English Wikipedia? [[User:AntonSamuel|AntonSamuel]] ([[User talk:AntonSamuel|talk]]) 22:18, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:AntonSamuel]], please see [[Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#www.israeldefense.co.il|here]], thanks, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:32, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
:::The inclusion of http://www.israeldefense.co.il as a reference was only to demonstrate an example of the synonymous usage of two terms in Hebrew in the Hebrew-speaking world/media, not for any other sort of factual claim. Would this still be an issue anyway? [[User:AntonSamuel|AntonSamuel]] ([[User talk:AntonSamuel|talk]]) 22:37, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::::It should still be discussed at RS, as it is used as a source for several articles regarding the Lebanon war, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:40, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::All right, but back to your revert, could you self-revert this or remove the "not in citation" tag and add to the discussion on the West Bank talk page? "This isn't Israelipedia" is not really an adequate reason to remove further clarification that was asked for on the talk page and through the "not in citation"-tag. [[User:AntonSamuel|AntonSamuel]] ([[User talk:AntonSamuel|talk]]) 22:43, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::: Well, if it isn't a RS, it really shouldn't be used as "an example" of anything, and we are back to the "failed verification" claim, (But I agree that my edit line wasn't the most clarifying...) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:47, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::: There are numerous examples of pages like TRT News, Al Masdar News and so on that are used to present ''claims'' of events if that is clarified, I would argue that the usage of terms should also be considered to be valid information drawn from these sites, especially if complemented from other sites with differing political viewpoints, which was the case in my example. Would you at least be ok with me restoring the ynet quote your revert removed? I don't want to get accused of being in an edit war or something, and all the Israel-Palestine articles are quite strict when it comes to reverts I have learned. [[User:AntonSamuel|AntonSamuel]] ([[User talk:AntonSamuel|talk]]) 23:03, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::[[User:AntonSamuel]], this is the [[West Bank]] article, one of the most high profile article in the whole Israel-Palestine area: expect every ''comma'' to be fought over. No, I am not joking. And no, I do not agree with you reinserting the quote. (Though if some other Hebrew speaker does so: ok), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:16, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I don't really understand the reason for opposing fixing the ynet reference that was left incomplete by your revert. I fixed it now so it's clear what is the title, author and what is the actual quote in the source for non-Hebrew speakers. [[User:AntonSamuel|AntonSamuel]] ([[User talk:AntonSamuel|talk]]) 23:30, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

== Curious about your copy edits ==

Hi Huldra. I'm curious about [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bosra&type=revision&diff=863117713&oldid=863103758 your copy edits] to the bibliography section on the Bosra page. Adding an author link for [[Guy Le Strange]] is great, but I don't see how it helps to convert authors' first names to initials, or to use the <nowiki>{{cite book}}</nowiki> template and "first=" parameter instead of the equivalent <nowiki>{{citation}}</nowiki> template and "first1=" parameter. What's your thinking?

Also, as this is comment #243 on your page, I'm going to echo the suggestion that you use an archive bot such as [[User:Lowercase sigmabot III]]. Finding stuff on your talk page is a pain for any other editor that wants to interact with you. [[User:Rupert Clayton|Rupert Clayton]] ([[User talk:Rupert Clayton|talk]]) 21:11, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Rupert Clayton]], yeah, sorry about my archiving skills; not great, I know. As for [[Bosra]], I first meant to fix an obvious typo ("publisher-Rough Guides"). As for my second edit: Firstly, I thought it was policy to abandoned the old general <nowiki>{{citation}}</nowiki> to the appropriate specific <nowiki>{{cite book}}</nowiki>, or <nowiki>{{cite journal}}</nowiki>, or whatever. Secondly, when an author has an authorlink, I normally convert all to just the initial. Take a look at, say [[Al-Qastal, Jerusalem]], why is Benvenisti, Conder and Guerin etc mentioned in the Bibliography with their full names, while Kitchener, Palmer etc are only mentioned with their initial? From what I can see, that has historical reasons: when these refs were added to the Biblio, only Kitchener, Palmer etc actually had articles about them; the others did not. Therefore the others needed full names. However, during these last year Benvenisti, Conder and Guerin etc also have had their articles made. I have been on a "declutter" "campaign" the last couple of months, trying to get all the articles into the same form; namely only initial IF there is an authorlink. See eg [[Iraq Suwaydan#Bibliography]] (done), and compare that with [[Al-Qastal, Jerusalem#Bibliography]] (not done).
::As for your "first=" vs "first1=" I am not sure I understand you: if you have more than one author, you have to use "first1=", "last1=" , "first2=", "last2=" etc, but if there is only ''one'' author you can simplify it by using only "first=" and "last=". AFAIK, that is irregardless if you use <nowiki>{{citation}}</nowiki> or <nowiki>{{cite book}}</nowiki> I hope this answers your questions (and thanks for finding that Beattie ref on Bosra!) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:42, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Dear, Dear Huldra, I think routine housekeeping tasks are best left to bots, so that editors can concentrate on what's important. I'd be happy to set up the archiving bot for you, it's quick and easy to do. Just drop a note on my talk page, or ping me from here. As you obviously don't want threads to archive too quickly I'd suggest setting it – to begin with – to only archive threads threads that have been inactive for, say, 180 days (which is what I have on my own talk page), and to leave a minimum of 10 threads on your talk page. Or perhaps you might want to have 120 days, which still gives you plenty of time to deal with difficult diffs. Anyway, it's up to you how you'd like it to work, and you can always change it later.
:::On "clutter", what really bothers me is the clutter of long, horizontally formatted cite templates. If they're in the main body of wikitext, they render it unreadable and uneditable. I simply refuse to edit such articles, with only a few exceptions. That's why I have my own script, which I call "ETVP" ("easy to visually parse") that reformats them so that the wikitext is easy to read (i.e., in ETVP format). It offers the user the choice of leaving ETVP templates in the article body, or moving them into either a bibliographic list (in conjunction with sfn or any of its siblings) or into reflist (list-defined references, or LDR). Once they're in ETVP format, it makes no difference whether first names are initials or not, though there might be other reasons for preferring one over the other. One nice little touch (out of many) is that it will get "first" vs "first1" correct, as you describe. There's a very long thread about ETVP starting near the top of my talk page. That particular thread is permanently protected from being archived (yes, you can do that too, with the archive bot!). All of Nishidani's Aboriginal articles are set up in this form, as are any articles on which I've been doing major editing (else I wouldn't be editing them!). One of these is [[Jocelyn Bell Burnell]], which was on the main page for 11 days recently. Have a look to see how it works. What do you think? --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 09:58, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
{{od}}
[[User:NSH001]], thank you for your kind offers.
*As for archiving; I'm a bit in two minds about that. I partly just want to delete old threads, (yeah, I know, that will make it difficult for anyone ..including myself... to find anything.) Water under the bridge, and all that. I have "saved" anything I want to save in the, say [[User:Huldra/DYK]] files, or under "Bling ...& nourishments..". Let me think about it....
*As for formatting; yeah, I agree: long refs inside the article makes it difficult to read: I am trying, article by article, to move them the end. As for the [[Jocelyn Bell Burnell]] article: very nice, yes, I have thought about having something similar on my Palestine location articles.....'''BUT''' the thing is, what I am trying to do there is let people easily check the info, often in sources more than a hundred years old. Look at the two above mentioned articles [[Iraq Suwaydan]] and [[Al-Qastal, Jerusalem]]; in both readers can easily click directly to the pages in, say, Robinson and Smith, 1841, vol 3, Appendix 2, p. [https://archive.org/stream/biblicalresearch03robiuoft#page/123/mode/1up 123]; Guérin, 1868, p. [https://archive.org/stream/descriptiongog01gu#page/264/mode/1up 264]; Socin, 1879, p. [https://archive.org/stream/zeitschriftdesde01deut#page/156/mode/1up 156]; etc, etc etc.
*The big difference between articles like [[Jocelyn Bell Burnell]] and "my" articles, is that the majority of my references goes to old books, where, like above, I can link directly to the page via, say, archive.org
*I am not sure clicking directly to the full source, in the Biblio section will be an improvement, (''in addition'' to linking to the page)
*(Also, I am not sure that is the logical thing: wouldn't one rather expect to get to the articles of [[Edward Robinson (scholar)|Robinson]], [[Eli Smith|Smith]], [[Victor Guérin|Guérin]] or [[Albert Socin|Socin]]?)
*Take an example: on many of the West Bank villages/cities, I use the [[ARIJ]] info; in the beginning I would give that info as, say "[http://vprofile.arij.org/jerusalem/pdfs/vprofile/Hizma_EN.pdf Hizma Village Profile], [[ARIJ]], p. 15". I found that half the time I would click on [[ARIJ]], though of course what I wanted was the [http://vprofile.arij.org/jerusalem/pdfs/vprofile/Hizma_EN.pdf Hizma Village Profile] link. So now I only write "[http://vprofile.arij.org/jerusalem/pdfs/vprofile/Hizma_EN.pdf Hizma Village Profile], ARIJ, p. 15" inside the article, and then have the full [[Applied Research Institute–Jerusalem]] (ARIJ), link under the "External links".
*'''To have ''more'' than one "clickable" link in each ref is confusing'''...at least for me! I have it in some; typically places (kibbutz/moshavs) built on land of the 1948 villages, say [[Harel, Israel]]. That is because Number 57 who edits these articles ''insists'' on having all refs inside the text. So in ref 3 in [[Harel, Israel]] you have 4 clickable links, though only one of them is really relevant to the article, (p. [https://books.google.com/books?id=uM_kFX6edX8C&pg=PR21 xxi]). Ah, well.
*As for formatting the Biblio section; yeah I agree, the way you have done it on the Aboriginal articles is far, far, ''far'' more readable. I have thought of "stretching" the refs out. If we do so, it would have to be in a way which left the "last1=", or "last=", or "author=" on the ''first line'', (so we could easily see which order they should be listed in).
*Ok, these a just a couple of my thoughts on the formatting. None of the above is "written in stone", so to speak. I just starting this "decluttering" process, as I found it illogical that in the SWP refs, Kitchener was virtually alway only referred to as "Kitchener, H.H.", while Conder was referred to as "Conder, Claude Reignier", and figured out that was because the Kitchener article was made in 2002, while the Conder article was made in 2010. (And most of the SWP refs were added after 2005). [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:32, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
:Hi Huldra and [[User:NSH001]]. Thanks for engaging with my comments. Point by point:
:#'''Archiving''': Maybe there's not much of value in old comments on Huldra's talk page; maybe there is. For me, setting up auto-archiving was a nice easy way to automagically never have to worry about that again. But it's Huldra's choice.
:#'''"first=" vs. "first1="''': [[Template:Citation#Authors|These are equivalent]]. For me, using "first''n''=" consistently is a reminder to check for additional authors. But I think this falls into the realm of "don't change unless you're making substantial edits to an article.
:#'''<nowiki>{{Citation}}</nowiki> vs. <nowiki>{{Cite book}} etc.</nowiki>''': Huldra says it is WP "policy to abandon the old general <nowiki>{{citation}}</nowiki>" template, but I can't find any mention of that—perhaps you can direct me. Both templates apparently now use the same underlying [[Module:Citation/CS1]] Lua code. But <nowiki>{{Citation}}</nowiki> has the advantage that it generates anchors for <nowiki>{{Sfn|Author|date|p=#}}</nowiki> inline references, whereas with the other templates one needs to manually create those using the "ref=harv" parameter. For that reason I prefer <nowiki>{{Citation}}</nowiki>.
:#'''Citation clutter''': I'm receptive to NSH001's arguments about the trouble with editing long inline citations. I haven't had time to read all the background but I think we agree on the wisdom of separating inline references from detailed lists of sources, bibliography or works cited (e.g. by using <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Sfn|Sfn]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. (Try [[Old Bridge, Hasankeyf]] for an example.) I do feel that turning horizontal inline cites into vertical ones just swaps one problem for another. But in the bibliography I'm fine with either approach. Ultimately, I'm thinking that much of this will be replaced by a visual editor that references a publication entry in an authority file (and readers can then choose their own display format), but that's not where we are now. I'm interested to try out the ETVP script; that's still not public, right?
:#'''Initial(s) vs. first name(s) in bibliography''': I wasn't able to find any guidance in [[WP:MOS]] and I'm pretty sure other style guides disagree with each other. Options would seem to be: (a) always just initials, (b) always spell out when known, (c) spell out when known, except for authors known primarily by initials, e.g H.B.S. Haldane (d) follow the source style [but is this from the cover, title page, or somewhere else], (e) Huldra's rule [use initials where there's an author-link]. I prefer (c) on the grounds that knowing a full name helps the reader place the author without needing to follow the author-link (if it's even there). Of course, there's a similar issue around middle initials...
:#'''Click directly to a page reference''': A lot of my sources are 19th-century books like the ones Huldra consults. I typically find that <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Sfn|Sfn]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> serves me well. I can specify a page cite in the in-line ref. For "one-time" references I generally point the "url=" parameter to the specific page on Archive.org or Google Books. For a few refs I usually point the url to the first page in the sequence. I seem to remember there's a way to pipe the page into the <nowiki>{{Sfn}}</nowiki> ref, but it escapes me now.
:#'''Multiple links on a bibliography line''': Yes, this sometimes can be confusing, but I think with care this can be helpful. Direct link to source should be the priority; doi and archive links are very important to avoid link-rot (and should lead to substantially the same content); author-link is nice; publisher link is probably worthwhile only in exceptional cases.
:I appreciate your thoughts on this stuff. [[User:Rupert Clayton|Rupert Clayton]] ([[User talk:Rupert Clayton|talk]]) 02:04, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

===More on curiosity===
Responses to both:

* archiving - yup, it's good to "have a think about it". Better than just making a snap decision. But this page is approaching 500k, so something will have to be done soon about it. I do strongly recommend the bot as the best long-term solution. Having an automated archive doesn't stop you having other sub-pages to save useful stuff in. Another reason is that other editors coming to your page expect to find a page that on the one hand doesn't archive threads too quickly, but on the other hand doesn't get too big either.
* I really like what you've been doing with linking the page numbers. Makes perfect sense. I've had this requirement at the back of my mind for a while now, looking for a way to keep this advantage while incorporating into an ETVP-type process. But it's not at the top of my priority list.
* It looks like you'll just have to resign yourself to having more than one clickable link in the long cite. Don't forget that things like isbn, doi, pmid, oclc, etc, are also external links. I agree it's a PITA if another editor is refusing to let you have short cites in the body text. Perhaps try DR?
* Huldra: "I agree, the way you have done it on the Aboriginal articles is far, far, far more readable". Thank you for that remark. It's given me the idea of releasing a mini-mini version of my script, that will reformat long cites already in a biblio list, or already in LDR, into ETVP format, but do nothing else. I can't see how anyone would object, since the objections given against ETVP in the article body vanish when they're already in a biblio list or LDR. I could also publicly release such a mini-version much sooner than the full script. Would gradually give other editors a chance to appreciate the advantages of ETVP, without suddenly springing a big change on people.
* Huldra: "it would have to be in a way which left the "last1=", or "last=", or "author=" on the ''first'' line, (so we could easily see which order they should be listed in)." This is what the ETVP script already does. The two most important elements in any long cite are the title and author(s) (or editor(s) if no authors). You'll notice that the title goes on the same line as the "cite xxxxx", and the authors/editors start immediately at the beginning of the next line. That way both are immediately accessible. In my very first efforts I kept dithering between putting title first or author first (on separate lines from the "cite xxx"). Soon realised that the present approach solves that problem very neatly - and as a bonus, it also saves a line of screen space. If there is no author/editor, the title is what is used to sort the long cites alphabetically, because it is then the first item to be displayed to the reader, so that's good as well.
* There is ''no'' wiki policy to abandon "citation" in favour of "cite xxx", and I have no preference between the two. But it ''is'' policy to be consistent within an article - so either all "citation" or all "cite xxx". Having said that, most editors seem to prefer the "cite xxx" version.
* The ETVP script is capable of templating most manual citations automatically, subject to a few provisos (such as having enough data to work from). This automatic templating will always use the "cite xxx" form (so that is a preference, I suppose). This facility will definitely '''not''' be in the first public release of the main script!
** Quite pleased to be able to do something like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_Hamilton_Mathews&diff=835977770&oldid=835976284 this] in a single edit!
* Initial vs full first name(s) - I have no preference, except to make one point. When switching out of body text into short-form + biblio listing, the ETVP script tries hard to eliminate duplicate templates (this is quite tricky, as the short-form cites have to be kept in line, which becomes even trickier when date disambigs are involved). It obviously can't do this properly if some cites use full name and others only initials, so please use either all initials or all full name - at least for the same individual. There is another danger when using initials only, in that authors with the same name and initials can be different people (so beware parent/offspring, spouses and siblings!). The ETVP script can resolve this latter problem if there is an author-link or editor-link on every relevant long cite, as long as none of them are redirects.
* An example using LDR is [[Gerhard Fischer (diplomat)]] (recently came to my attention).

--[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 11:53, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
*#'''<nowiki>{{Citation}}</nowiki> vs. <nowiki>{{Cite book}} etc.</nowiki>''' Well, I said "I ''thought'' it was policy to abandoned the old general <nowiki>{{citation}}</nowiki>" etc. However, I looked through the talk pages of [[Template talk:Citation]] and couldn't find anything. Strange, Im sure I was told (years ago...) BUT: [[Template:Citation]] is used on 189,000+ pages, while [[Template:Cite book]] is used on 1,000,000+ pages.
*# '''Last vs Last1''': I wouldn't bother changing that alone, but if I am cleaning up an article, I will do it. The thing is: I mostly edit about 1000-1500 Palestinean/Arab villages/town, located in present Israel, Palestine, southern Lebanon and southern Syria. I typically use the same sources again, and again and again.."Conder and Kitchener" gets 900+ hits, the 1945 data gets 800++ hits, "Hütteroth and Abdulfattah, 1977" (the 1596 data) gets 600++ etc, etc. So: I dont need a reminder to check for additional authors, when I have used the same source hundred of times before.
*#I dont mind that some want all the information inline (ie, no "Biblio" section), in articles like [[Harel, Israel]]. That is because that these moshavs/Kibbutz articles are mostly very short, with 6 or 7 references at ''the most'' (more typically: 2 or 3. Some have none.) So they are still "manageable". However, it would be total hell to have the same format in "my" villages, as they typically have 20, or 30, or ''more'' references. So no, I will definitely not start a RfC on the "style" of the moshavs/Kibbutz articles, but if anyone tried to change the style of "my" villages into the same full inline style: then we will have a full wikiwar...
*#'''Inline info vs Biblio info''': I try to have in the inline info ''only'' the link to the info ''actually used in the article.'' The Biblio info can then have the whole info about who has given this info (name links, etc.) So the Biblio part can have as many clickable part as one like. See [[Bayt Jiz]], compare that with [[Harel, Israel]]. Now the [[Bayt Jiz]] no 5 ref, is exactly the same as the [[Harel, Israel]] no 3 ref; just that in the [[Bayt Jiz]] all "unnecessary" info is put into the Biblio section. And I dont really need a link from [[Bayt Jiz]] no 5 ref to the Biblio section...I would assume people can find the full Morris ref in there themselves. So actually, I think that the Harv reference system, for "my" articles would be more of a bother that a help.
*# ('''And I really need a direct link to the used info!''') I have added thousands (quite literally) population numbers from the 1922, 1931 and 1945 census...and in addition a few thousand descriptions from 19th century writers. Some of those numbers/description I have gotten wrong the first time around. (Quite a few more than people are aware of!!) So I need a way to easily check, and recheck, and recheck again. So I can fix my mistakes before anyone notice....
*# '''Click directly to a page reference:''' Much of the SWP (that is Conder and Kitchener), the 1922 data (for all villages which are not 100% Muslim), and all the 1945 data: they all use the same reference many times. Having just ''one'' link in the Biblio section simply isn't enough.
*#Look at [[Nuris]]: that is pretty much how I hope all the article will end up: what is clickable, is linked. What I am not happy with, is what is "invisible" to the reader, namely the Biblio part....which isn't very readable. (With the exception of the Sternhell ref.) Likewise: The [[Hebron#Bibliography]] is actually quite readable, (When you click "edit")...while the [[Bayt Jibrin#Bibliography]] is a nightmare. Something which would change the Biblio part of the Nuris, Bayt Jibrin (and a thousand other articles) into something more like the Hebron part (''minus'' the ref = harv part), now that would be appreciated! Ok, these are just some thoughts.... [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:59, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

OK, I've set up a hacky version of my script that doesn't put "ref=harv" in the biblio listing, but still turns everything into ETVP. I ran it on [[Nuris]] as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nuris&type=revision&diff=863552931&oldid=863452030 a test case]. What do you think?

I really must get around to properly documenting ETVP, its principles, and how the script works. This isn't really the place to discuss the small detail of the ETVP script, but comments still welcome.

May I give you a wee friendly nudge to think about archiving? Regards,

--[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 14:35, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
*Nuris looks excellent! A couple of minor points: the 1945 ref (ref 3) went dead, (I suspect that was because there was an extra ">" at the start, which messed things up.) Also, the "Village Statistics, April, 1945. Government of Palestine, Department of Statistics. 1945" were moved to the end, while the inline ref still goes to "Government of Palestine, Department of Statistics, 1945," etc. I try to make it so that people can find the ref under the equivalent place, alphabetically, in the Bibliography section. IE, to find "Morris, 2004, px", you look in the "M" part of the Biblio, to find the full ref to "Government of Palestine, Department of Statistics, 1945, etc" you look under the "G" part, etc

*Also note that I there has been a development in the 1945 refs (that is: the [[National Library of Israel|NLI]] version): when I first started adding them, I just used the inline ref: "Department of Statistics, 1945, etc", and the equivalent full ref under the "D" part of the Biblio. Alas, some time later I started adding the Jordanian census for 1961 for the West Bank places; then suddenly I had two "Department of Statistics," ...referring to two different countries! Not good. So I have gradually been changing all the inline "Department of Statistics, 1945 etc" to "Government of Palestine, Department of Statistics, 1945, etc", see [[Hizma]] as an example. Obviously the need is not that great for the 1948 villages (as they of course were never mentioned in the Jordanian 1961 census), but I think it is better that the same ref is referred to the same way, wether it appears in a 1948 village article, or in a West Bank article.
*Ah....archiving...having thought a bit about it, I think I will just delete a major part of this talk page in the near future, ie, no archiving. Water under the bridge, or, as we say in my country: the snow of last winter...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

::Thanks for that. Re the "Village Statistics" changing place, the script recognises that "Government of Palestine, Department of Statistics" cannot possibly be an author, so it puts it under "publisher =" (it even knows that it has to be a publisher!) instead. The long cite thus no longer has any author or editor, so it gets sorted by the title, which is the part that displays first to the reader. (BTW, you won't believe the amount of stupid errors that people put in cites, and a large part of this script's work is fixing them). This is the correct behaviour, I think. The script doesn't like "author =" as a parameter, and will always try to parse it into last/first or something else (in this case publisher, but it could be any parameter that matches). You can see it doing this also with Karmon being parsed into first/last. Remember the whole thing is set up to facilitate linking from short-form cites to long cites. That's what it was designed to do, and it's always a bit dodgy when you introduce something into a piece of software that goes against the grain of how it was designed. Which is why I described it as "hacky".
:
::It's getting late, and I'll be going to bed in a few minutes. Will look at the remaining points tomorrow morning. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 22:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Ok, another matter is [[Guy Le Strange]]: I normally have him under "S", for "Strange, le". But I think [[User:Arminden]] thinks the correct surname is "Le Strange", so it should be under "L". (If so, then the inline refs also needs to be fixed, from "Strange, 1890," to "Le Strange, 1890"), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:01, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
::: And [[R. A. Stewart Macalister]] is much similar; according to the "National Thesaurus for Author Names ID" his (sole) surname is "Macalister", and as such, he should be listed under "M". However, he is often (mistakenly) listed as "Stewart Macalister", [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 23:42, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Don't worry, it wasn't your stray ">" that messed it up. The culprit was a standard bit of code that replaces underscores in the names of image files within infoboxes by blanks. Just a cosmetic change really. Anyway, it never expected an image file in such a position to be formatted as a bracketed URL. Now changed to exclude that possibility. See latest diff (where I also got rid of the extra ">"). --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 12:23, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Excellent! .... is there is there a way to get the script to recognise Government of Palestine, Department of Statistics" as an author? And the there will (probably) be the same issue with the Jordanian 1961 census, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:31, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
{{od|5}}It would be possible, yes, but I'm not going to do it; the more I think about it, the less I like it. It's semantically incorrect, and it's just storing up trouble for the future. One of the reasons there are so many errors in the cite templates is that editors just do the first thing that ''looks'' right, regardless of whether it makes any sense; they probably don't even bother to read the cite template documentation. Fortunately, the solution in this case is easy – just change the corresponding <u>short cite</u>. Thus we change the short cite <blockquote>Government of Palestine, Department of Statistics. ''Village Statistics'', April, 1945.</blockquote> to <blockquote>''Village Statistics'', April, 1945. Government of Palestine, Department of Statistics.</blockquote> or even better, I think, to just <blockquote>''Village Statistics'', 1945</blockquote> and similarly for the Jordanian one:<blockquote>''First Census'', 1964</blockquote>
...in all cases leaving the page number part at the end unchanged, of course. I could fairly easily get the script to do this at the same time as it's correcting the "author" (well, perhaps not that easily, as I'd have to allow for all the variations, but nothing insuperable).

--[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 10:13, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:NSH001]]: I'm fine with that; though I would prefer adding ''which'' nation, ie:
::"''Village Statistics'', 1945, Government of Palestine"
::"''First Census'', 1961, Government of Jordan" (Not 1964!)
:For us "regulars in the area" it will be obvious which country each statistic refer to, but I think we should write for the "non regulars" too....[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:14, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::Well, the first one I looked at was [[Hizma]], and that says "1964" for the Jordanian stuff, in both the short & long cites? --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 20:36, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::[[User:NSH001]]: oooopsh: you are right, the census was in 1961, but it was published in 1964, ie, 1964 is the right date. Mea culpa! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
{{od|4}}OK, I've re-done [[Nuris]] accordingly, also [[Hizma]] to test the Jordan statistics. Note that the main CS1/2 cite templates put the date at the end if there is no author, so the short cites do the same. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 06:12, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
:For [[Nuris]], it is ok, except reference 3, which now became <nowiki><ref name=DoS1945>''Village Statistics, Government of Palestine''. 1945, p. [http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/yabber/census/VSpages/VS1945 p16.jpg 16]</ref></nowiki> ...that link needs to be changed to http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/yabber/census/VSpages/VS1945_p16.jpg
:For [[Hizma]] it looks great...except reference 22, which says "First Census, Government of Jordan. 1945," (that should be "First Census, Government of Jordan. 1964,"), [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:24, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
::Oops! What a [[Private Pike|stupid]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9t_KDGqOmE boy] I am! For [[Nuris]], I took a shortcut and ran the script on the latest version, rather than the earlier version (which is a bit more hassle). I forgot the ".jpg" suffix was cut off by the erroneous blank from the rest of the URL, therefore it couldn't parse the URL correctly. As for [[Hizma]], that's always the danger of copy-pasting stuff in order to edit it, and then forgetting to change something. Should still have checked the diffs, though. Now fixed (err, I hope!) --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 05:45, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Well, now they both look great, anyway, thanks!! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:38, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

== We're here to build an encyclopedia ==

[[User:Huldra]], putting our differences aside, I have asked you to add a map in the article [[Rebbo]]. See the Talk-Page there. Thanks in advance![[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 00:16, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

== AE ==

Probably you should remove the irrelevant dot-points just before "Additional Comments". [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 10:50, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:Zero0000]], Yeah, you are right.... but it is already closed. Next time...Sigh, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

== ARBPIA “safety valve” - ARCA? ==

I have been thinking about this situation, and thought I’d come to chat given your knowledge of ARCA.

The rules keep getting more complex. I am fine with that in concept, as some of the worst behavior has been stopped. But well-meaning editors getting tripped up, pushed out of the project, or living with a sword of Damocles above them (to use Nishidani’s phrase), doesn’t make for a positive environment and therefore doesn’t help the project. It encourages battleground behaviour and doesn’t help the already busy admins with unnecessary AE and ANI requests (see AGK’s recent AE discussion about Debresser’s frequency there).

So, I would like to propose a “cordiality” amendment to ARBPIA/ARCA to fix this and solve all these problems. It could take a number of forms, with the core characteristic being:
* for an AE or ANI to be valid, an editor must have attempted to engage with the other editor on any potential or actual violation
* an AE or ANI cannot be valid if the other editor self-reverts or (if self revert not possible because things have moved on) takes an appropriate break from the “action”

What do you think?

[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 10:10, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Onceinawhile]] yeah, I agree with you: there are some who spend an inordinate amount of time in [[WP:AE]], reporting lots of people, and ''never'' warning them first. They are like throwing lots and lots of balls, blindly, but hoping with the amount ''some'' will hit. Which inevitably they will. (Personally, I always warn people first, before I go to AE....thats because I hate spending time on the Dramah boards...) And ''no'' uninvolved admin with criticise a fellow admins action in the IP area these days, no matter what they do. (In a way I understand that: "policing" this area is an unthankful job.)
:Yes, I agree: taking a dispute to AE or ANI should ''not'' be the ''first'' stop in a dispute. However, I am in doubt if this can ...or should..be formalised in a ARBPIA/ARCA amendment: it seems like one more step of bureaucracy.
:I would, in this case, suggest that you appeal the topic ban over at [[WP:AE]], the above facts (that you were not aware of the rules, ''and'' that the reporting editor had ''not'' engaged you over this ''before'' AE) should be two mitigating circumstances. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 20:49, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

::Hi Huldra, the issue I am thinking about here is not me. It’s all the experienced editors we’ve lost in the IP space in the last 4 years or so. It’s a tragic loss. Now it’s happened to me, I know exactly how those people who left the project permanently felt. I appreciated your and Zero’s messages on my talk page - it showed me that you knew there was a risk as to how this kind of treatment might impact me, because we’ve all seen it happen to many other good editors.
::The admins often don’t have the time to investigate the claims properly, so the sanctions regime malfunctions a few times a year. That’s the case with any human process. For our project to survive in the more difficult areas such as IP, the sanctions process needs a safety valve.
::[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 21:08, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
:::[[User:Onceinawhile]], well, I can say that my two experiences of being sanctioned (both times "out of the blue") have made me lose more faith in this project than ''anything'' else I have experienced in my 13 years here (and this is coming from a person who has received a 4 digit number death and rape threats here over the years). So yeah; I know precisely what you are talking about.
:::BUT: you are looking for a fair, or at least a ''more'' fair system. I am afraid I have lost faith in that. (I usually quote [[Tyrion Lannister|Tyrion]]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmq-LJb8P-8 "if you want justice, you come to the wrong place"]. That is both for [[Game of Thrones]] ...and Wikipedia.
:::Second BUT: I think we could/should send a signal to trigger happy admins that edit warring really isn't the big problem anymore in the IP area (not after 1RR, and 30/500 rules). Actually, it hasn't been a big problem for years. I have seen ''far'', far too many (mostly bad) admin actions with the reason given that they are "stopping edit waring".....which is a bit like "shovelling last winters snow", as we would say in my part of the world. Ie; "solving" something which isn't a problem anymore.
:::I just dont think ARBPIA/ARCA is the right venue...ARBPIA/ARCA want tight, clear rules, rules that can be easily "actionable". "Attempted to engage" is typically not very clear, ...hmmmmmm....I see ''endless'' discussion opening up..(OK, so I'm the devils advocate here). [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 21:42, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
:::PS: I still think you should appeal your topic ban on AE.
::::Thanks Huldra. I greatly appreciate your wisdom and directness. You are right.
::::I am hoping that AGK will reconsider on the basis that, per [[WP:GS]]: “Administrators may not impose sanctions unless an editor has previously been made aware of the existence of these sanctions”, and he already accepted that I was not aware.
::::As to the safety valve, could I try another version on you:
::::* “Administrators may not impose 1RR sanctions if an editor was not given a warning about the violation 24 hours prior to the AE submission”.
::::That is specific, and might work because we’re simply saying give the editor a chance to repent in whatever way they consider appropriate. It ties nicely together with your point that edit warring is much less of an issue now.
::::[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 22:21, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Ok, much better, but (I'm still being the Devil's Advocate...) take the last time I reported anyone to AE, namely [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive243#13zmz13]]: I had warned them, on their user page, that ''if'' they continued to edit articles under ARBPIA3#500/30, ''then'' I would report them. (They had less than 500 edits). They continued, I went straight to AE, they were blocked. Now, under your proposed rule, I would need to warn them ..again?..before reporting to AE? (I often give warnings like that: "''If'' you do that, ''then'' I will report you", would this be considered fair warning?) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:41, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::I am proposing that the rule only applies to the 1RR sanctions. So neither discretionary sanctions for general poor behavior, nor 500/30 sanctions would be covered. The thinking is that the 1RR bright lines are frequently crossed accidentally, and whilst most of us like to give opposing editors a warning and chance to rectify, some editors do not. That disparity can cause a negative editing environment, and benefits aggressive editors at the expense of collegiate editors. [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 13:16, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::OK, if I can be open here: if all editors came to Wikipedia with an open mind, and in the interest of creating a positive editing environment: yes, this rule should definitely be passed.
:::::::Alas, I am ''far'' too old and cynical to believe that. Lets face it: there are only a handful of editors who ''routinely'' file reports ''without'' giving the accused a change to rectify any wrongs. And that handful are in ''one'' camp only, (lets say: not overly friendly to Palestinians). And (I am speaking of experience): this camp will appear ''in mass'' to protest ''any'' rules which will make it more difficult to take out anyone who do not agree with them.
:::::::To be blunt: I think the only realistic way for such a policy to be passed, is if the opposite party stopped playing nice, and also started to report people directly, without giving editors ''any'' chance of correcting their mistakes. The first time any one of "their own" party is also blocked or topic banned because of a "good faith" mistake, then, (and ''only'' then), does this rule have a chance of being passed. [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra#top|talk]]) 22:48, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

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