Talk:Niagara Falls

Template:WP1.0

Sources

I question the use of ref link #26. that links to a children's bible school website, telling Roger Woodward's story. because that article says the life vest can save my life, but only god can save my soul as he did for roger. surely there has to be more neutral and factual ref links for woodward's event than that one linked. as a fairly new user, am i off base here? Fshake (talk) 14:28, 25 September 2010 (UTC)fshake

Characteristics

In the third paragraph,per-second flow rate of Niagara is compared with the per-MINUTE flow rate of Victoria. On a casual reading it is easy to come away with the impression that Victoria Falls is 50 times as heavy flowing, which is completely inaccurate. According to the Wikipedia page on Victoria Falls, the per-second flow at peak is about 1.5x, while annual flow is less than 0.5x. At the very least, the sentence should be changed to read as follows: "By comparison Africa's Victoria Falls has 320,000 cu ft/9,100 m³ per second of water falling over its crest line each minute during the peak of the wet season." Even better would be to compare both peak and annual flows, and cite http://www.world-waterfalls.com. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ABR (talk • contribs) 12:43, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

In the article, there is no reference to the American Falls diversion to the Canadian Horseshoe falls during 1979/1980 or thereabouts. As a young geology student, I had the opportunity to walk across the caprock, looking for fossils with my paleontology class. As I recall, the USACE was planning to drive bolts into the cliff face to delay the ultimately unavoidable erosion of the caprock. Why is there no reference to what must be readily available verification of that effort?

Are you referring to the complete diversion of the American Falls from June to November of 1969; mentioned in the second to last paragraph of the "Preservation efforts" section? That's the only wholesale diversion of the American Falls that I'm aware of. cheers Deconstructhis (talk) 01:22, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Little more to this topic. I guess meters^3 in "More than six million cubic feet (168,000 m^3) of water falls over the crest line every minute in high flow,[4] and almost four million cubic feet (110,000 m^3) on average." can be interpreted as per minute flow, but it is m^3/s. I’m not experienced in Wikipedia talks, so just point it out here. —Totktonada (talk) 00:50, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you would want to change. The article says, "More than six million cubic feet (168,000 m^3) ...(per)... minute" and the source cited says "More than 168,000 cubic metres (6 million cubic ft.) ...(per)... minute". Is there a problem? What am I missing? - SummerPhD^v2.0 02:48, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Preservation???

I find it most remarkable that preservation only seems to refer to the falls themselves but not their environment. the urban development on the canadian side is appalling and i wonder where it will stop and what will be next: perhaps a roof over the falls? every time i come for a visit to show my home town to my kids there are more towers and high-rise hotels and we feel like in las vegas.

when i was a boy myself, we used to point to the american side and remark how ugly it was. dirty factories and old high-rises dominated the skyline and spoiled the otherwise wonderful view. in the meantime the americans did a pretty good job demolishing some or most of the factories and buildings and keeping the open space around the falls clear of any development. we much more enjoyed strolling through the park-like american side of the falls than the totally built up and messed up canadian side. the falls have been subject to so many alterations in the past they were alway kept hidden as good as possible. the skylon tower was the first major step away from protecting the environment of the falls, but it remained alone for quite a while. but raking in more money was too hard to resist and developers finally got their way. how can the small strip of green along the canadian side of the falls be called "park"? it's an amusement park alright! i wonder if the falls were ever considered to be a world heritage site and whether they still are.

the last time i visited niagara falls 2 years ago i decided it would be the last time. it's too sad, frustrating and upsetting. Sundar1 10:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

i agree. ive been to the falls and its pretty depressing. one minute im enjoying the veiw of the falls then i turn around and theres a big godamn freaking casino right behind me. and you wouldnt beileive how much trash there is!!! its like a landfill/las vegas/waterfall. someone should do something about it!!!!!!!99.149.118.183 (talk) 01:25, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Draining Lake Erie? Are you kidding?

The article states, "Although engineering has slowed erosion and recession in this century, the falls will eventually recede far enough to drain most of Lake Erie, the bottom of which is higher than the bottom of the falls. Engineers are working to reduce the rate of erosion to postpone this event as long as possible."

This does not make sense. When erosion eventually moves the falls to the Lake Erie head of the Niagara River and begins cutting into the lake bed, the water will just fall into the gorge, just like it does now once it travels down half of the river. If the entire lake could drain away, it already would have through the river. The only time when Lake Erie would dissapear is when the falls cuts its way back across the lake to the Detroit River - THEN no more water would flow into Lake Erie, and would instead go into the falls channel. Lake Ontario is already lower in elevation that Lake Erie - that's why the water "falls" in the first place, but you don't see the entire water in Lake Erie draining empty like a bathtub now, and that would still be true when the falls reaches the lake. The level of the lake is the same as the upper Niagara River. No mater where the falls are located, that level would remain exactly the same.

The keeper of this page needs to get someone to put a citation and a scientific rationale for the basis of the article's statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.139.228.193 (talk) 21:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Once Niagra Falls makes contact with Lake Erie, the top of the waterfall will only drop in altitude as the erosion progresses into the lake. The drop in altitude will then correspond with the drop in the lake's water level. The lake could completely drain, as opposed to mostly drain, if the fall reaches the deepest portion of the lake, which is at the eastern basin off Long Point. Put it another way, it is impossible for the lake to drain without the erosion. However I think the bigger concern right now is that further change of landscape by erosion could potentially cause immediate damage to nearby property. —Tokek (talk) 11:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

The article on the Niagara River Niagara River states that the falls have eroded upriver 7 of 35 miles in the past 12,000 years. At that rate, it will not reach Lake Erie for another 48,000 years. Of course, that may be a few thousand off one way or the other, since there are portions of the escarpment that will erode at different rates. However, is an event ~48,000 years in the future something that today's engineers are seriously concerned about? Where is the supporting reference for that statement in the article? If it cannot be verified, then it needs to be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.7.112.56 (talk) 23:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Agree with the unsigned author above - the math stated in the article will not result in the falls reaching Lake Erie until at least 48,000 years from now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.7.112.56 (talk) 05:11, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

But this is a rate of 3 ft per year. That's pretty significant if you are trying to plan infrastructure (roads, walkways, electric generators). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.57.16 (talk) 05:33, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I am not in disagreement with you folks. Erosion is possible, it happens. However, the particular erosion involving the lake completely draining out is so far into the future if it does happen that it is not a concern of the engineers. More immediate erosions are of concern. However, speaking of erosion reaching the lake, I suppose the speed of erosion might change once the waterfall touches the lake, because that would be a whole new dynamic. —Tokek (talk) 02:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

"History" Section

The sources cited in the opening of this section for the most part are uniformly awful. There is no such thing as *the* "Iroquois language", or a singular "Iroquois nation", there are a group of related languages and nations called "Iroquoian", eleven in number plus their related dialects, perhaps the best known of which are those spoken by the Six Nations people. What gets confusing in a lot of articles on Wikipedia regarding both Iroquoian language and cultural issues is the fact that we know very very little about the smaller groups that had little or no contact with incoming Europeans and virtually disappeared before many things about them were recorded. In many cases a lot of information that appears on the web regarding these subjects is a product of 19th and 20th century imaginations trying to "fill in the gaps". An example of what I'm talking about here is the case of "Niagara" translated as "Thundering of Waters" and related expressions, it's a highly romantic and dubious rendition, at best 150 years old or so. Currently I don't have access to my resources for researching this material, but when I do I'll see what I can do about providing more reliable citations for this material.Deconstructhis (talk) 15:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

1956 rock wall collapse?

Why isn't the 1956 rock wall collapse mentioned in the article? --Ragemanchoo (talk) 04:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Photo

I think that the main photo for the article should show American, Bridal Veil, and Horseshoe Falls. It is about all of Niagara Falls, after all, not just Horseshoe. Going back in the history Niag715.jpg shows all three. I would change it, but the article is semi-protected. Can someone take care of it please?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.130.178.63 (talk • contribs)

I agree. The real issue here might be related to a problem in placing an image of appropriate quality and size, in terms of conveying a sense of the grandeur of all the falls at the same time in a single image and still fit it into the current overall layout of the top of the article. It's certainly possible to capture an image looking south from somewhere in the vicinity of the Rainbow Bridge and accomplish what you're talking about. The question is; would an image with that width of field work at the top of the page in terms of size and still provide half decent detail? Deconstructhis (talk) 05:51, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

There is a phote that shows the American Falls and states that it is a "View of the Canadian Falls", which is wrong, please fix. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mooyaya (talk • contribs) 04:21, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree!!! Although the main photo is a nice one, we should put in another one showing america, bridal veil, and horseshoe, as 161 said below. Thank you. comment added by Sorceress150 (talk 01:45, 08 November, 2011 —Preceding undated comment added 18:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC).

inter wiki link

Please add inter wiki link to telugu article. te:నయాగరా జలపాతం. Thanks రవిచంద్ర (talk) 05:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. Couldn't you have done this yourself? —Tokek (talk) 21:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

In addition to the Photo, in it, the Horseshoe Falls is called: "The Canadian Falls (Horseshoe Falls)." Has there been a name change? Or is it still the Horseshoe Falls? It is my understanding that the international boundary runs down the center of the Horsehoe Falls. The current labeling is misleading and stating it is (soley) Canadian is incorrect.Arizzzona (talk) 02:42, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The majority of the Horseshoe Falls are located in Canada with an approximatly quater in the United States, the boarder does not run through the middle of the Falls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mooyaya (talk • contribs) 04:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Frozen falls

This has probably been discussed before, but there is an email going around that contains a picture of the falls frozen "in 1911." snopes.com is not sure of date but believes that the information itself may be correct. [1]. Student7 (talk) 02:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Comparison with Victoria Falls

"The volume of water approaching the falls during peak flow season may sometimes be as much as 202,000 cubic feet per second (5,720 m³/s).[3] By comparison Africa's spectacular Victoria Falls has over 19 million cubic feet (546,000 m³) of water falling over its crest line each minute during the peak of the wet season (320,000 cu ft/9,100 m³ per second)."

The way this is written would imply to a reader that Victoria Falls has more flow than Niagara falls, and is misleading at best. The Victoria Falls article states that "A figure of around 9,000 m³/s (318,000 cu ft) is quoted by many websites for Victoria Falls but this is the mean maximum instantaneous rate, which is only achieved for a little amount of days per year" and that the maximum average in any month is more like 3000 m³/s (the minimum being 300 m³/s); this 3000 m³/s figure might be a fair comparison to use, but I'm not sure I see the point.

Briefly put, the comparison, though it may be factually correct, is misleading and IMO deserves removal. I therefore will remove the second sentence quoted after posting this comment, and anyone who feels this is a mistake should put their reasoning here. Strunkenwhite (talk) 19:35, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Since you have brought it up, I think having a cited rankin volume or whatever, would be appropriate, but comparisons seem out of place and maybe WP:OR. The article is and should be about Niagara not Victoria. By putting the factoid here, the original editor has distracted us from the main WP:TOPIC.

Transportation guide

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the point of a "how to get here" section in an encyclopedia article. Yes, it's factual information, but Wikipedia is not a how-to guide, nor a travel guide. It's not a matter of tone, but of content. Wikitravel is a good place for travel information, but I don't think Wikipedia is. Powers ^T 13:39, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Let me explain my position, and I will give you an opportunity to do the same. Fair?

First, I am afraid your information is old; the "how to get there" section was replaced by transportation section from the viewpoint of tourism. If the comment refers to the transportation section, the section no longer violates the wikepedia no-travel-guide rule (as found at WP:NOTTRAVEL) as the section does not seek to make suggestions to tourists as to what is the best way to get there, or tips on what to do and what not, or other similar statements that characterize travel guides, and which is the point in WP:NOTTRAVEL (please see telephone and address examples given there). I have, by the way, taken all the comments the other editors provided regarding the section and re-edited to ensure the information contained only declarative information, and not procedural ("how-to") information. If you feel the transportation section still does violate the rule, simply identify the specific statement(s) that you feel still violate the rule - certainly you can find at least 1 such case, I would believe.

If the objection is about the transportation section itself, and you cannot zero in on specific statements, then certainly there should be no Transportation article in wikepedia at all, right?

I would also suggest that we look over other similar wikepedia articles, and see how this matter has been handled in other cases.

For example, both the Windows_of_the_World#Transportation and the Walt_Disney_World_Resort#Transportation contain well-established transportation sections.

The Victoria_Falls#Tourism_in_recent_years Victoria Falls article includes direct intructions on "how-to" get a visa in the Victoria Falls vicinity.

The article on Balancing Chemical equations gives specific instructions on "how-to" balance chemical equations at Chemical_equations#Balancing_chemical_equations

The article on Yosemite#Activities Yosemite park has a section titled "Activities" with all sorts of travel-guide information such as traffic congestion, accesibility by automobile, entrance fee, etc.

The Hot air Balloon article Hot_air_balloon#Construction teaches not only how to ride one, but how to build one as well.

The list I am sure is a lot longer, but I think you get the point. And I am not suggesting that these other articles are entirely right, but simply suggesting that you may be overreacting.

As a suggestion, have you considered placing a dispute/how-to/other type of flag on the section header? Maybe others could help IMPROVE the section.

Well, I have provided you with my position, and have given specific examples of why I disagree with you statements above. Now please explain your position with SPECIFIC examples of violations or other statements that you object to. If you cannot provide actual examples of violations of the no-travel-guide rule, at a minimum you might want considering, as another editor did, suggesting to me how I could improve the section so I could attempt to clean up or reword the article so that it meets or exceed all expected standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob99324 (talk • contribs) 19:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not going to jump through arbitrary hoops. Not surprisingly, you've left a lot of information here, making it very hard for me to respond to everything you've raised. I will say that the examples you've linked range from good, encyclopedic information, to sections that should be excised completely. The information given in the Walt Disney World article, for instance, mentions only those parts of the internal transportation system about which there is something notable to say. It does not mention the ferry boats, for instance, because that's all they are -- there is nothing useful to say about them in an encyclopedia. The buses are notable for being such a large fleet in a place that is not a municipality; the monorail is notable because it is such a rare mode of transportation. In the case of Niagara Falls, it's just not notable that planes, trains, and automobiles can access the area; what would be notable is if one of those options was not available for some reason. Powers ^T 00:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Random comment from an IP user

Niagara Falls are also in Michigan bordering Lake Erie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.160.37.202 (talk) 21:35, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

No, they're not. Powers ^T 12:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Niagara Wild Ginseng is a famouse Ontario forest ginseng watered by niagara falls Water —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.51.17.17 (talk) 21:54, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

New views of the falls

{{editsemiprotected}} I have taken a few good views of the falls which can be added or replaced in the current article of Niagara Falls. They are high resolution images (10 megapixel) and I have licensed them in the public domain. The links to the new images are:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadians_watching_horshoe_falls.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CN_Tower_as_seen_from_skylon_tower,_Niagara_Falls.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:American_and_Bridal_with_a_full_moon.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_Horshoe_at_Night.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_Horshoe.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:American_and_Bridal_Falls_as_seen_from_Skylon_Tower.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_Horseshoe_Falls_with_Buffalo_in_background.jpg—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ujjwalkumar (talk • contribs)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Which pictures should replace which pictures? Which should be added? Where? Why? I'd recommend discussing the changes here to gain a consensus first.

They are nice pictures, by the way. I like the night shots.—C45207 | Talk 07:00, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}}

Thanks for appreciating the pics.

1) There is some space empty between "American Falls" and "Aerial view of Niagara Falls..." images in Characteristics. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:American_and_Bridal_with_a_full_moon.jpg can be placed in between the 2 images, or this image can even replace the image: "American Falls", with a caption of: "American and Bridal Falls as on a full moon as seen from the Canadian side."

2) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:American_and_Bridal_Falls_as_seen_from_Skylon_Tower.jpg should replace a similar image in Impact on industry and commerce>Power which seems to have a bit less colors than the above one.

3) Just below the above image (image no. 2), a similar view of horseshoe falls should be placed: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_Horseshoe_Falls_with_Buffalo_in_background.jpg . The caption should be: "Canadian Horseshoe falls as viewed from Skylon Tower".

4) No night view of the Canadian Horseshoe is in the gallery at bottom the page. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_Horshoe_at_Night.jpg can be put with caption: "Looking over the brink of Horseshoe falls at night".

5) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadians_watching_horshoe_falls.jpg : I have browsed a lot on Niagara Falls views, but didn't find a good view like this, Canadian watching the Horseshoe falls. This image can be put in sub article, Tourism>Canadian side, stating: "The Canadian Horseshoe falls is better viewed from the Canadian side". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ujjwalkumar (talk • contribs) 15:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

You know if you just wait three days or make six more edits, you can do this yourself. Powers ^T 14:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, that worked. Celestra (talk) 15:29, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Replace flags with text

{{editsemiprotected}} As per WP:MOSICON replace the flags with Canada and United States 86.42.82.246 (talk) 23:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

 Done   Set Sail For The Seven Seas  359° 31' 15" NET   23:58, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect? I would like to see the exact verbiage in WP:MOSICON that justifies the removal of those flags. I can find nothing there that says those flags cannot be used in this context. There is even an entire section below that (WP:MOSFLAGICON) that gives detailed guidelines about flag usage, and I see nothing there either that would warrant their removal from the NF infobox. So please be specific about the precise passage in the cited guideline that calls for the removal of those flags.

 —  ^{.`</sup>^) Paine Ellsworth<sup>diss`cuss} (^^`.  04:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

"Accompany flags with country names." The previous usage was incorrect. I suppose you could argue that the country names should have been added instead of replacing the icons. Rees11 (talk) 15:36, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Edit request from Cathymbuchanan, 1 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The Literature section would be made more useful by replacing "The Niagara Falls area features as the base camp for a German aerial invasion of the United States in the H. G. Wells novel The War in the Air." with:

Fiction:

The Day the Falls Stood Still by Cathy Marie Buchanan

The Whirlpool by Jane Urquhart

The War in the Air by H. G. Wells

Non-Fiction:

Inventing Niagara: Beauty, Power, and Lies by Ginger Strand

Niagara: A History of the Falls by Pierre Berton

Imagining Niagara: The Meaning and Making of Niagara Falls by Patrick McGreevy Cathymbuchanan (talk) 00:28, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Already done -- /MWOAP|Notify Me\ 01:57, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

 Working I think I did this wrong. Looking into. -- /MWOAP|Notify Me\ 18:02, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Partly done: I didn't think it was appropriate to put links in the middle of the article. I put them at the bottom and left the section in. Let me know if you have further questions. -- /MWOAP|Notify Me\ 20:24, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Literature is not spelt 'Liturature', suggest perhaps this section could also be changed to reflect this? 92.238.128.101 (talk) 13:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

A reference for the 1954 restoration work

This link will take you to copy of the June 1954 issue of Popular Science, which has a three page article on the restoration work being carried out at that time. Click on the box that says page 44 for the full article. You will find this useful as a reference source for this article and the magazine itself is a fascinating period piece. For instance - have a look at the advert for Camel cigarettes on the last page of the magazine! Richerman (talk) 01:25, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Chazfitz, 22 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Please add : Nathan Boya, (also known as William Fitzgerald), became the first African-American to go over the Horseshoe Falls on July 15, 1961. The steel and rubber ball he built was nicknamed "Plunge-O-Sphere" and weighed 1,200 pounds including Boya's own weight. Knowing that many daredevils in the past died of suffocation, he included an air tank which would provide oxygen in case he became caught under the mighty falls. When retrieved by "Maid of the Mist" employees, Niagara Parks Police were there to greet him and as a result Boya has the distinction of being the first person to be charged and convicted under the Niagara Parks Act for going over the Falls without permission. He was fined $100 and costs of $13.

Sources: Search Niagara Falls Daredevils Chazfitz (talk) 11:20, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Not done: Please be more specific about the reference which provides this information. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 16:22, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

There is a Wikipedia page for Nathan Boya. Felsenst (talk) 13:43, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Edit request from Scionofzion, 22 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

Check with author Ann Armbruster who wrote the children's book, Lake Ontario, for the "A True Book" series, 1996, Children's Press, division of Grolier Publishing. In it she quotes Annie Edson Taylor after her Oct 24, 1901 ride over the falls as having said, "Nobody ought ever to do that again."

Scionofzion (talk) 18:25, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks; I corrected the quote and added a reference. I decided to utilize a newspaper source rather than a children's book. cheers Deconstructhis (talk) 22:12, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Done by Deconstructhis. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 00:18, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Location of International Border and Horseshoe Falls

A recent edit referenced a book that apparently claims that Horseshoe falls is entirely on the Canadian side of the border, however both the National Map of the United States http://nationalmap.gov/ and the National Atlas of Canada http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/topo/map appear to show the easternmost portion of the falls lying on the American side, although the exact location of the border appears to vary slightly in relation to the falls. This also agrees with the depiction of the international border on Bing Maps and Google Maps.Blazotron (talk) 07:47, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Adamnvillani, 17 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

As per the discussion page, an established user should correct the information saying that Horseshoe Falls lies entirely within Canadian territory. All the definitive sources (such as the USGS and the Atlas of Canada) have Horseshoe Falls straddling the border, with the majority on the Canadian side but a significant fraction in U.S. territory. Same thing over on the specific page for Horseshoe Falls. Adamnvillani (talk) 17:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm the one who added the info about Horseshoe Falls being entirely in Canada. I'm not sure whether it really is or not, but the authors of the two books I cited seem pretty sure it is. One of them, Niagara: A History of the Falls, provides a fairly detailed description of how the enlargement of Terrapin Point and the elimination of small falls nearby resulted in the rest being all in Canada. The book is online at Google Books (linked above), but the relevant pages don't seem to be available to preview (I checked it out from the library). It seems like a good reliable source--published by the State University of New York Press. But it is true that USGS topo maps and Canadian maps show the boundary oddly crossing the falls. The USGS topos can be viewed at this ACME Mapper link. It looks almost like the border runs along the crest of the falls a bit. The numbers on the border (137, 138, etc) refer to the official boundary "turning points" per the International Boundary Commission (IBC). Their website has coordinate lists for all boundary monuments and "turning points" over water. I doubled checked 137 and 138 and they appear to be exactly as mapped by the USGS. So that's pretty good evidence for part of Horseshoe Falls being in the US. Then again, while the topo maps show the border accurately they might not show the falls exactly right. Comparing the topo view and satellite view in ACME Mapper helps see the falls better. To me it looks like a close call. It does appear that a portion of the falls directly south of Terrapin Point is in the US. So, I could be convinced either way. But... while topo maps and the IBC coordinates are reliable sources, I'm not quite sure about using them along with "satellite" aerial imagery to reach a definitive conclusion, especially given the book's plain statement to the contrary. I'm also not sure how much weight should be placed on the IBC's "turning point" coordinates--their land boundary coordinates are definitely strong, but the water boundary points are not as strong. They are not linked to physical survey markers, but rather just coordinate lists. It's possible there are slight differences in datums used by the IBC and other map & "satellite" sources. They are all available in NAD83, but there are slightly different NAD83 datums and it's not clear which are used in which sources. And the IBC's water boundary points at the falls are oddly located, as if they were agreed to without any consideration of the falls, making me wonder whether there were subsequent slight adjustments at the falls that the IBC hasn't documented. So I'm not wholly convinced by the map and boundary reading interpretation. It would be nice to find another reliable source to confirm it. Maybe there's more info from the Niagara Falls State Park. I'll see if I can find anything. Pfly (talk) 20:35, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I've closed the edit request pending Pfly's investigation (the category is currently backlogged). Unless a contradictory source turns up I would think what the currently cited sources say should trump contributor's own analyses of maps. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 16:09, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Larfsen, 18 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

Under "History," the second-to-last paragraph says: and it the engineers were to [...] Please change it to read: and the engineers were to [...]

In the same paragraph, towards the end, please change "saftey" to "safety."

Larfsen (talk) 03:33, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Done, thanks. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 16:09, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Could you please add the name of Jim Honeycutt to the 'Over the Falls' section

{{edit semi-protected}} In the 'Over the Falls' section, you metion the "Miracle of the Falls" that occured on July 9, 1960 when Roger Woodward was swept over the falls and survived, while his sister, Deanne Woodward was rescued before she went over the edge of the waterfalls. Could you please add the name of Jim Honeycutt to the paragraph. He was the driver of the ill-fated boat that the two children were on, and he went over the falls and was killed, his body recovered a few days later. His name should be added, since he was the driver of the boat, and he went over the falls as well, and did not have a miracle similar to Roger Woodward. You can go to footnote 30 to read about Jim Honeycutt.204.80.61.110 (talk) 20:12, 20 December 2010 (UTC)Bennett Turk.

I think these two sentences should be added to the end of the paragraph: Jim Honeycutt, the driver of the ill-fated boat, (that Roger and Deanne Woodward were on), also went over the falls and was killed. His body was recovered a few days later at the base of Niagara Falls.74.76.83.125 (talk) 01:29, 21 December 2010 (UTC)Bennett Turk.

Requests to edit semi-protected articles must be accompanied by reference(s) to reliable sources. Chzz  ►  22:07, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

 Not done

Here are two reliable sources that prove Jim Honeycutt went over Niagara Falls, at the same time as Roger Woodward and did not survive, which is even more proof on how miraculous Roger Woodward's experience really was. http://www.niagaraparks.com/media/lives-saved-at-niagara.html http://www.Reservationsystems.com/niagara_daredevils/roger_woodward.html I can get plenty more reliable source references if you need them. Jim Honeycutt Niagara gets hundreds, if not thousands of hits at Google.com.204.80.61.110 (talk) 16:08, 24 December 2010 (UTC)Bennett Turk

Time to unprotect the article

It's been 2 years. The thing was meant to expire ages ago. Let's see if it still needs protection. Lot 49a^talk 21:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

• I agree. 159.83.54.2 (talk) 22:22, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Images

I took the liberty of updating the main reference image to one that displayed all three of the falls. I probably would have made more changes but I don't want to be seen as making the page over in my own images as it were.

Other issues include: what is the HDR image doing there? While striking it hardly represents any aspect of reality.

I also noted that two exceptional images are placed in the Power section. These are very representaitve images and give a good overview of both main sections of the falls... they should be displayed more prominently. I'd suggest removing the HDR image and promoting these two images to under the main info box.

Many people have added media to both the commons category and the images gallery. Some of these should be promted into the article as they are of a better quality, higher resolution, newer and more representative of the topics being discussed.

Saffron Blaze (talk) 16:09, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, I am going ahead with the changes and if they are deemed unwarranted they can be reverted.Saffron Blaze (talk) 10:28, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Franklin's whales

How about Ben Franklin's famous letter to a British newspaper for the literature section: "...the grand Leap of the Whale in that Chace up the Fall of Niagara is esteemed by all who have seen it, as one of the finest Spectacles in Nature!" http://www.historycarper.com/resources/twobf3/whale.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.53.195.38 (talk) 21:23, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit Request 24 August 2011

Sentence: Nearby Niagara Falls International Airport and Buffalo Niagara International Airport were named after the waterfall, as were Niagara University, countless local businesses, and even an asteroid.

This seems incorrect. The airports were named after the City of Niagara Falls and the Niagara region, respectively, which in turn were named after the falls. The university was named after the region/county/river. We can guess that because if Niagara Falls (the city) changed its name, so would the airport name change, as well as many of those countless local businesses. Washington Reagan National Airport, for example, was not named after George Washington directly, but after the City of Washington.

quote: "The Whirlpool Rapids Bridge lies one mile (1.6 km) south of the Rainbow Bridge..." Actually, it's *north* of the Rainbow Bridge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.225.253 (talk) 18:59, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks; for future reference, it helps if you can include {{editsemiprotected}} when you make such a request. Powers ^T 17:30, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Niagara Falls/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer:  JoeGazz  ♂  16:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

• If this was not already under review, I would quick fail this for lack of inline citations.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:27, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Ya, I saw that, I was going to fix it up myself, but I think it's just going to be too much work, it needs some renovations too and then should be renominated.  JoeGazz  ♂  21:15, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

• Declining under Quick Fail - Declined for lack of inline citations.  JoeGazz  ♂  21:15, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 May 2012

The Niagara Falls paragraph, 'To preserve Niagara Falls natural beauty...-"when tourist are scarce", should read "when tourists are scarce". Also same sentence, "during the winter months then there are even fewer tourist", should read "during the winter months when there are even fewer tourists".' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jan.chruscikowski (talk • contribs) 19:22, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Niagara Falls 186 feet high?

A google search turns up many sites that list the height of Niagara Falls at 186 feet. Replies? - Brad Watson, Miami 71.196.11.183 (talk) 11:28, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

A lot depends on where you measure it. From the surface of the water above the Horseshoe Falls to the surface of the water below? From the precipice to the basin? To the talus? Powers ^T 01:39, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

This site, which looks authoritative, gives a discussion of the height of the falls. Martinvl (talk) 04:33, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Walkers and plungers

Should "Over the falls" be kept as a single chronological section, or split between those who plunged over the edge and those who walked, or attempted to walk, above it? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:11, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that seems reasonable. Walking a tightrope over the gorge is a lot different from actually plunging over the precipice with the water. (Sam Patch's leap is somewhere in between; not sure which section it would go in. Perhaps use his leap as an introduction within a new supersection on daredevilry?) Powers ^T 14:53, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Have attempted a split. It's not ideal as the two images of the tightrope walkers are a bit crowded in such a short sub-section. Perhaps the two sub-sections should be swapped? Not surprisingly, walking is more photogenic than plunging, it seems. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:32, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

There seems to be several inconsistencies in this section regarding accomplishments. It says that Steve Trotter was the first to survive the plunge twice in 1985 (without mentioning an earlier first) and then says that John "David" Munday was the first in 1993. Also, that he was part of the second pair (also without an earlier first), but that Peter DeBernardi and Jeffery James Petkovich were the first "team" (I feel it's a little unclear why team is in quotations) in 1989.--120.32.150.7 (talk) 02:20, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Why is Carlisle D. Graham missing? Jens Ahlström (talk) 21:12, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 February 2013

Information about the removal of the Army Corps of Engineers dam across Niagara Falls in 1969 is incorrect: "The temporary dam was blown up to restore water flow." This would never have been done due to the unforeseen consequences of setting off an explosion right above the falls. It is true that at times sections of the rockface surrounding the falls have been blasted away for safety concerns, but the temporary dam was not blown up. The cofferdam, as it was called, was made up of tons of soil and rocks. I witnessed its deconstruction as a young reporter for the Niagara Falls Gazette. Backhoes went to the middle of the cofferdam and pulled the dam apart, bit by bit, until an opening was made large enough for water to start surging through the hole. Once the water began to come through, the force of it eventually washed away all traces of the dam. Lgniagara (talk) 18:31, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I have re-worded that statement to say "Water flow was restored..." I did this not because of your first-hand testimony, but because the Daily Mail source provided on the article did not verify the "blown up" version. Unfortunately, first-hand testimony is not acceptable as a source on Wikipedia; that is considered original research. But in this case the reliable source that was provided to verify the "blown up" version did not verify it. Cheers, —KuyaBriBri^Talk 16:11, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Photo caption

The first photo in the Characteristics section has a caption "Niagara Falls, Canada". However, the photo shows only the American side: American Falls, Bridal Veil Falls, and the city of Niagara Falls, NY. The caption needs to be edited. At least the word "Canada" should be removed. --Rmcurtis (talk) 03:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

In fact, this same photo is used in the page for Niagara Falls, New York. In that article , the caption is "Niagra Falls,Showing the American side". --Rmcurtis (talk) 03:31, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Moreover, the image should not have been added to the article in the first place. The quality is not there and it doesn't add anything new. Saffron Blaze (talk) 14:12, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

World's first large AC power system?

Did a cleanup of claims because they were unverified and large parts of it can be proven wrong (was not the first AC plant, was not the first hydro plant, Tesla did not invent AC, Three phase AC power was invented by many people, not just Tesla, etc[2]). Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 22:18, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunate that there is no History section here? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request 2013-04-17

In the "See Also" section, please add:

• Lelawala

74.82.132.35 (talk) 22:51, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Keen to add, but supporting refs needed at that article? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Not done for now: the article needs some work before we can link it. Declining this request because there wasn't a response after a week. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 00:56, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Flight of the Angels closed

Seems they have not been open since 2008; they should be removed (from the Tourism/American Side section). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.16.204.219 (talk) 16:25, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Verdant green

"The verdant green colour of the water" Is this not tautological? What is meant - bright green? Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 06:07, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Distance from Toronto

(in 3rd intro paragraph) Toronto to NF might be 75 miles driving on land, but the air distance across Lk. Ontario (which is what "south-southeast" suggests) is more like 40 mi? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.99.34.6 (talk) 04:01, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Citation 43 ought to be removed.

It's a ludicrous source. Whether or not the event happened, this narrative is clearly biased and reads like a mediocre children's book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.247.93.2 (talk) 23:22, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Gauging station added; could be better formatted

In the paragraph on the treaty regulating water flow over the falls, I've added a link to the NOAA gauging station page used to determine the flow over the falls. I'm not happy about the formatting, but I don't know how it could be made better. If anyone has ideas, please jump on in. Dan Griscom (talk) 15:30, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

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Substitute references to "American side" to "United States side"

Perhaps the article should substitute references to "American side" to say "United States side". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C0FA:F080:5067:D03D:8B8F:54F2 (talk) 19:30, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Absurdly-stated History Section: Immediate fix needed

In the HISTORY section you say "A team from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers dammed the falls in June 1969 in order to clear rock from the base of the falls." This is incorrect! Only the American Falls were dammed! The US Army would not even have jurisdiction to dam the Canadian Horseshoe Falls. This is a huge issue with your article because when most people think of "The Falls" they think of the classic Horseshoe Falls, which was never dammed nor would it even be technically possible to dam it due to its shape and location! Please fix this now. I have no clue how you overlooked this before making this article protected from public editing.

Dear User:Johnhopkins777, you are correct that the article was missing the word "American" in front of "Falls". It's been fixed. That this is a "huge issue", worthy of seven impolite sentences, you are incorrect. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:37, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

"Preservation efforts" section

Would someone please take a look at the last two sentences of the second paragraph in this section? "In 1883, New York Governor Grover Cleveland drafted legislation authorizing acquisition of lands for a state reservation at Niagara, and the Niagara Falls Association, a private citizens group founded in 1882, mounted a great letter-writing campaign and petition drive in support of the park. Professor Charles Eliot Norton and Olmsted were among the leaders of the public campaign, while New York Governor Alonzo Cornell opposed.".

As worded it states that New York Governor Cleveland drafted legislation in 1883 that was opposed by New York Governor Cornell. Could it be that the Niagara Falls Association started a petition, apparently opposed by Governor Cornell who left office that year? If the great letter-writing campaign was started in support of the legislation then Governor Cornell would have been an ex-governor. If the letter-writing campaign started in 1882, it could have been opposed by Governor Cornell and the new Governor, elected in 1883, might have drafted legislation because of the campaign. I can not get clarification as there is no direct reference. Otr500 (talk) 06:53, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

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"Long been in dispute"

Right in the lead section, the article says: "The international boundary line was originally drawn through Horseshoe Falls in 1819, but the boundary has long been in dispute due to natural erosion and construction." However, the only source cited for this statement is dated 1905!

The boundary line dates from the Treaty of Paris (1783), which simply specified it as running "along the middle" of the "Communication by Water" between Lake Ontario and Lake Erie. I presume the 1819 date refers to some agreement that determined how to interpret "middle" in places where the river divides into multiple channels. But as to being disputed today, I don't think so. My understanding is that the International Boundary Commission laid down a fixed location for the border in about 1925, formed of a series of straight lines joining specific points (and in fact one of these straight lines is so angled that almost the whole of the Horseshoe Falls is in Canada, but not quite). This should have taken care of any disputes existing in 1905. However, I'm not going to research this. Hopefully someone else will.

--69.159.60.147 (talk) 04:36, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

I removed a similar statement at Horseshoe Falls which was not supported by the sources. The position of Horseshoe Falls has changed over the years due to erosion and human modifications, but I haven't been able to find any source that describes a disagreement between the US and Canada over the location of the border. –dlthewave ☎ 13:26, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

This has been discussed at Talk:Niagara Falls#inter wiki link,Talk:Niagara Falls#Edit request from Adamnvillani, 17 December 2010, and Talk:Horseshoe Falls#Boundary Controversies?. A good summary of the Brouhaha can be found here, but as User:Dlthewave pointed out, this isn't an official disagreement. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:51, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

I went ahead and deleted the sentence. If we include it at all, it certainly doesn't need to be in the lead. –dlthewave ☎ 16:07, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

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Nomination of Portal:Niagara Falls for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Niagara Falls is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Niagara Falls until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:17, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

4th survivor

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/09/americas/niagara-falls-man-survives-plunge-trnd/index.html -- Worth adding? Kdammers (talk) 13:25, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Actually, the fifth, and yes - the guy in 2012 was the fourth sources say. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:52, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

This sentence makes no sense

In the original 1920s and 1930s Buck Rogers stories and newspaper cartoons, Buck Rogers, in his adventures in the 25th century that take place on Earth.[138] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.177.225 (talk) 01:56, 20 October 2020 (UTC)