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Retired

This user has permanently retired from editing Wikipedia.

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This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in discussions about infoboxes and to edits adding, deleting, collapsing, or removing verifiable information from infoboxes. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

–MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 06:48, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Infoboxes

You are starting to get a little heated. Personally, I feel you already articulated your point particularly well enough to the point that this comment wasn't needed. Cheers, –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 16:23, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Beg your pardon? Honestly, I thought that was a rather innocuous formatting edit, swapping the {{xt}} template for the {{tqb}} one. I assumed the latter would be more appropriate, by highlighting the text quoted. Nutez (talk) 16:28, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, woops! I grabbed the wrong diff!! I meant this one, haha. Sorry! –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 17:17, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, fine then. I may concede that I was a bit agitated when replying, and could have phrased my response in a more mellow manner. I would agree with you that I had already established my point wrt. Infoboxes; hence my frustration with the incessant peppering by two different editors who would continue to antagonize me with increasingly hostile remarks beneath my !vote. Nutez (talk) 17:46, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've already spoke to one of them about it. Hopefully, Fieari will not feel the need to respond further since I don't think that single part of the discussion is getting anywhere productive. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 18:05, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ANI response

Your thread at ANI was closed before I could respond: my response is here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

＠SandyGeorgia: Okay, I see you have plenty of admin support (as expected), so I'll give up. You win. I don't know why you keep talking about misogyny – I am myself a female editor, and now I'm being misgendered by your friend Iridescent at their talk page. Hilarious (also: their Google translate theory made me spit out my coffee). You are also using this incident to attack The ed17 and J Milburn, simply because you didn't like their work for the WikiCup. I remember that kerfuffle clearly, and your frivolous attacks on me and other editors associated with it: Wikipedia_talk:WikiCup/Archive/2011/2#Example for instance (my account was Eisfbnore back then). It's depressing to me that you keep getting away with this vituperative style of commenting. I won't bother looking diffs (wouldn't know where to look, in what archives), but I remember clearly you antagonizing Lecen, and other admins backing you up. Anyway, I'm wasting my time here, the slopes are amazin outside, think I'll go skiing. Happy New Year. Nutez (talk) 10:45, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Drop yourself into {{he/she}}: User:Gertanis ⋅ he/him · 897 edits since: 2017-05-19, last edit on 2018-11-06 and User:Eisfbnore ⋅ he/him · autopatrolled, rollbacker, 9261 edits since: 2009-01-14, last edit on 2020-08-17. My emphasis. The default is "they", so the only way I'm "misgendering" you is if you yourself have set the preference incorrectly. ‑ Iridescent 10:55, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that feature. I used those other accounts prior to my transition. I've adjusted the preferences accordingly. Nutez (talk) 10:58, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are you supposed to subst: that template? How can we know that you used the template at all? The source code and diffs from your talk page give no indication. Nutez (talk) 11:05, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I personally prefer to use they unless someone asks me to use something else so I have little experience with the templates, but personally I would not want to leave multiple unsubstituted templates in any comment I make so would always substitute. In any case, if someone tells you they checked, you should be AGFed they did. AFAIK it's generally accepted that it's reasonable to follow someone's user setting preference with or without templates anyway.

Getting to the main issue, you seem to think this is something to do with "admin support" for an editor yet I fairly doubt it's particularly relevant. As you know, I'm not an admin, I do have some respect for SandyGeorgia but have also disagreed with various things they've done. I was serious when I said I wondered if you were a troll. When I looked at your comment, I found the single diff although it was supposedly part of a pattern, investigated it and saw absolutely nothing like you described. I started to write a reply, and then before posting given that you used such a strong description about fairly tame edit summaries, started to seriously wonder if you were just some lame troll that we often get at ANI. I checked your edit history and confirmed that it looked like you weren't.

While doing that, I also noticed it didn't look like you'd yet informed SandyGeorgia of the thread as the boxes tell you to do. I admit, I wasn't surprised by this since new editors who post bad ANIs tend to do that, but it's something that bugs me no end. Yes I appreciate banner blindness and all that, but it just seems to me if you're posting somewhere where you have little experience, perhaps you should make an effort to look for what you should do. For editors who have some experience with Wikipedia even if not with ANI, I feel even more strongly that way.

All this added up to my feeling your post was a bad ANI post which I tried to summarise at ANI. (As can be seen from this and my other posts, I often write long, perhaps too long posts.) Yet I fairly doubt I would have felt any different if I had never heard of SandyGeorgia. Or for that matter if SandyGeorgia had made a very similar post about you. The only difference would be that I wouldn't have seriously though SandyGeorgia was a troll, although I might have seriously wondered if their account was hacked.

To be clear, as I said at ANI, the two edit summaries I saw are not "incredibly vile edit summaries, laced with profanity and anger". If you were trying for hyperbole, well that was a bad idea. If you really feel that's an accurate description of someone saying "setting up to do the darn things myself" and "STILL", I don't know if this is because you don't speak English natively or what, but as me and others have said, it's not. Note that personally I feel that there is too much incivility on Wikipedia. But while I feel, it would have been ideal for SandyGeorgia not to use those edit summaries, they aren't the sort of edit summaries which I feel even if we dealt with incivility better, would ever warrant ANI attention.

If there were worse edit summaries, and given you did claim there was a pattern, it was your responsibility to present these diffs, no one else. You can't start an ANI and expect someone else to find the diffs, that nearly always fails and makes the OP look bad. In fact, in some ways the fact you presented that single diff was worse here since it was so far from what you claimed.

You did present some more diffs afterwards, but from what I saw these were all ancient, close to being 10 years old. Stuff that happened 10 years ago of very limited relevance. If you've established an ongoing pattern, you can perhaps show it may be okay to show it was the same 10 years ago, but you need to establish the problem still exists first which you never seemed to do.

Nil Einne (talk) 05:10, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 :::Are you supposed to <code>subst:</code> that template? How can we know that you used the template at all? The source code and diffs from your talk page give no indication. [[User:Nutez|Nutez]] ([[User talk:Nutez#top|talk]]) 11:05, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
 ::::<p>I personally prefer to use they unless someone asks me to use something else so I have little experience with the templates, but personally I would not want to leave multiple unsubstituted templates in any comment I make so would always substitute. In any case, if someone tells you they checked, you should be AGFed they did. AFAIK it's generally accepted that it's reasonable to follow someone's user setting preference with or without templates anyway. </p><p>Getting to the main issue, you seem to think this is something to do with "admin support" for an editor yet I fairly doubt it's particularly relevant. As you know, I'm not an admin, I do have some respect for SandyGeorgia but have also disagreed with various things they've done. I was serious when I said I wondered if you were a troll. When I looked at your comment, I found the single diff although it was supposedly part of a pattern, investigated it and saw absolutely nothing like you described. I started to write a reply, and then before posting given that you used such a strong description about fairly tame edit summaries, started to seriously wonder if you were just some lame troll that we often get at ANI. I checked your edit history and confirmed that it looked like you weren't. </p><p>While doing that, I also noticed it didn't look like you'd yet informed SandyGeorgia of the thread as the boxes tell you to do. I admit, I wasn't surprised by this since new editors who post bad ANIs tend to do that, but it's something that bugs me no end. Yes I appreciate banner blindness and all that, but it just seems to me if you're posting somewhere where you have little experience, perhaps you should make an effort to look for what you should do. For editors who have some experience with Wikipedia even if not with ANI, I feel even more strongly that way. </p><p>All this added up to my feeling your post was a bad ANI post which I tried to summarise at ANI. (As can be seen from this and my other posts, I often write long, perhaps too long posts.) Yet I fairly doubt I would have felt any different if I had never heard of SandyGeorgia. Or for that matter if SandyGeorgia had made a very similar post about you. The only difference would be that I wouldn't have seriously though SandyGeorgia was a troll, although I might have seriously wondered if their account was hacked. </p><p>To be clear, as I said at ANI, the two edit summaries I saw are not "incredibly vile edit summaries, laced with profanity and anger". If you were trying for hyperbole, well that was a bad idea. If you really feel that's an accurate description of someone saying "setting up to do the darn things myself" and "STILL", I don't know if this is because you don't speak English natively or what, but as me and others have said, it's not. Note that personally I feel that there is too much incivility on Wikipedia. But while I feel, it would have been ideal for SandyGeorgia not to use those edit summaries, they aren't the sort of edit summaries which I feel even if we dealt with incivility better, would ever warrant ANI attention. </p><p>If there were worse edit summaries, and given you did claim there was a pattern, it was your responsibility to present these diffs, no one else. You can't start an ANI and expect someone else to find the diffs, that nearly always fails and makes the OP look bad. In fact, in some ways the fact you presented that single diff was worse here since it was so far from what you claimed. </p><p>You did present some more diffs afterwards, but from what I saw these were all ancient, close to being 10 years old. Stuff that happened 10 years ago of very limited relevance. If you've established an ongoing pattern, you can perhaps show it may be okay to show it was the same 10 years ago, but you need to establish the problem still exists first which you never seemed to do. </p><p>[[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 05:10, 1 January 2022 (UTC)</p>
-::I saw some names here that I hadn’t seen in ten years! Time passed, now I’m a professional historian and SandyGeorgia and her lackeys are still around wasting their lives. How pitiful. Nutez, one advice: let go of Wikipedia. It’s not worth it. It’s a broken website and will always be broken as long as anonymous editors can hang up to force their way, especially against professionals or people with actual knowledge. Forget SandyGeorgia and her buddies. They are pitiful creatures, who can only find a modicum of joy in their miserable lives by tormenting others in an online environment. Be well and happy new year! --[[User:Lecen|Lecen]] ([[User talk:Lecen|talk]]) 04:34, 4 January 2022 (UTC)