Talk:Abd al-Mu'min

Abdelmumin was born in the moroccan almoravid empire.

At the time Abdel-Moumen was born (1094 AD), Tlemcen, Algiers and all of the western Zenata areas were under Almoravid empire (Tlemcen and Algiers were conquered circa 1080-1082)

1. Reference (English):

The history of the Maghrib an interpretive essay by Abdellah Laroui page: 163 https://archive.org/details/TheHistoryOfTheMaghribAnInterpretiveEssay/page/n169/mode/2up

1. Reference (English):

Morocco from empire to independence by C.R Pennell, Page 44

1. Reference (Arabic):

تاريخ دولتي المرابطين والموحدين في الشمال الإفريقي عن المؤرخ علي محمد الصلابي. صفحة 72 Translated: History of the Almoravid and Almohad states in North Africa; by the historian Ali Muhammad Al-Sallabi. page 72

1. Refernce (English):

Almoravid and Almohad Empires By Amira K. Bennison, page 40. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Warrior4just (talk • contribs) 06:28, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

None of these sources mentions where he was born (in fact, they don't even mention his name). To avoid wasting people's time, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the WP:OR policy and the talk page guidelines. M.Bitton (talk) 14:00, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- John Carter 21:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Abdelmumin was born in the moroccan almoravid empire.

Abdel Al-Mumin was born to a period during Almoravids. Tlemcen was part of Almoravids by 1080 AD, Tlemcen during 1094 (date of birth) was not part of the Hammadids.

Source: Almoravid and Almohad Empires By Amira K. Bennison, page 40. Publisher ‏ : ‎ Edinburgh University Press; 1st edition (August 1, 2016)

1) Nowhere in the source that you're citing does it say that Abd al-Mu'min was born during the Almoravid period. 2) The Almoravids were not Moroccans (as they invaded present-day Morocco). 3) Not liking or not understanding something doesn't give you the right to remove it or to disrupt the project. M.Bitton (talk) 11:16, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Abdelmumin was born in the moroccan almoravid empire.

"Abd al-Mu'min was born near the village of Tadjra, in the Tlemcen area, in present-day Algeria,[2] then belonging to the Hammadids."

nedroma and tlemcen were not part of the hammadid kingdom during the year 1094 as shown in this map.

https://preview.ibb.co/b2Jgvd/map_1094.png

edit: here's another source: https://books.google.com/books?id=6XMBAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA700&lpg=PA700&dq=almoravides+conquered+tlemcen&source=bl&ots=ivFJvE2P38&sig=ofk-UQuRS3-VMpbJytolQLgKboE&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIwrbysI3bAhWJw6YKHYDND40Q6AEIfDAP#v=onepage&q=almoravides%20conquered%20tlemcen&f=false

--History21st (talk) 23:15, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

M.Bitton...

Britanicca is not a reliable source when it comes to african history.

his birthplace; in the end of the 11th century, was part of the Almoravid empire. and not of this hammadid kingdom which was crushed and pushed near actual Tunisia during earlier battles.

1.(in french)

1079 AD: Les Almoravides fondent Taghrart (Tlemcen)

which means

Almoravides founded the city of Taghrart(Tlemcen)

link: http://www.amazighworld.org/history/history_revised.php?page=4

1082 AD: Les Almoravides prennent Alger en 1082 grâce à Youssef U Tachfin. Ce dernier défait tous les Zénètes de l'ouest du Maghreb. La première grande mosquée sunnite de rite malékite, la Grande Mosquée d'Alger, est alors bâtie par Youssef U Tachfin. Les Almoravides n'ont toutefois jamais fait la guerre aux Zirides ou aux Hammadides, les deux dynasties étant issues des Sanhadja.

link: http://www.amazighworld.org/history/history_revised.php?page=4

which means

that in 1082 AD, the almoravids took the city of Algiers, there's no way he could have been born in the hammadid kingdom. the hammadids were never been able to push back the almoravids after the conquest of algiers.

2.show me any other source than Britanicca that says that Abdelmumin was born in the Hammadid kingdom. I can give you multiple sources and maps that supports my argument. thank you

--History21st (talk) 15:05, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

birthplace = Almoravid empire

(french source)

Les Almoravides, maîtres du Maroc…

Tlemcen tombe en 1079, Oujda en 1081. Ténès et Oran sont prises l'année suivante par les envahisseurs, qui poussent jusqu'à l'Ouarsenis et la vallée du Chélif, au centre de l'actuelle Algérie. Après la chute de Ceuta, qui appartenait au roitelet musulman de Malaga, les Almoravides sont maîtres en 1084 de tout l'ouest du Maghreb. C'est à ce moment que les princes musulmans d'Espagne se résignent à faire appel aux Voilés venus donner un nouveau souffle à l'islam occidental.

https://www.clio.fr/BIBLIOTHEQUE/l_espagne_sous_la_domination_almoravide_et_almohade.asp

--History21st (talk) 19:28, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Tagra

There is currently no encyclopedia article on Tagra, and a Google Book search only returns sources saying that Abd al-Mu'min was born there, and that it is near Oran/Tlemcen. Based on the French references, I believe Tadjra is an alternate romanization of this place.

I'm also unclear whether Nedroma (which has been listed as his birthplace in some of the revisions of this page, and is also listed in some sources) is supposed to be the same location, or is the closest modern city to the location. power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:56, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Why it's writing village of Tagra because it's just hills, secondly why it's writing Nedrome was under Hammadid Kingdom because that's information is false. We can't write bullshit like this with any references. When Abd Al Mumin was born this territoiries from part Almoravid Kingdom, all of that it is because algerians don't want to recognize their has been a long time under Moroccan dynasties. Also they would to appropriate a great conqueror for their history but Abd Al Mumin rule a Moroccan dynastie that's a fact. So now you should delete this part because it is fake information and some people which don't know Moroccan history took Wikipedia as the first reference but we can write every thing and whatever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.26.25.166 (talk) 22:08, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Revisions made, but sources need improving

I've made as many improvements as I could for now, but much of the article's main section (currently named "Political life"), relies solely on Ibn Khaldun, a historical primary source. As per WP:RSPRIMARY, primary sources should be avoided for Wikipedia articles. I've added some secondary sources and used one of sources already present, but this needs to be done consistently across the article to verify and revise the existing text. Once this is done, I'd recommend removing the Ibn Khaldun citations altogether. R Prazeres (talk) 20:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)