Talk:Cyber-dissident

I'd suggest that the definition is far beyond a professional or citizen journalist. Dissidents aren't always from the media domain.

Propaganda-pushing by RJ CG

RJ CG has repeatedly attempted to claim that "Aljoša Mirnõi" is:

• a "cyber-dissident";
• being persecuted by Estonian authorities.

Neither is the case. Mr. "Mirnõi" is a Russian Federation's citizen, living in Russia, who made calls for terrorist attacks on Estonia's infrastructure; hardly a respected mode of dissidency. Furthermore, the extent of this supposed "persecution" is requesting legal assistance from Russia. To the best of my knowledge, this request has not received positive response from Russian authorities so far.

Accordingly, I have reverted. Digwuren 18:16, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Couple of comments here. 1st, calls for violence are irrelevant. Mr. Berezovsky had repeatedly made calls for violent regime change against current Russian regime and it did not cause British authorities to withdraw his protection. You can respect or hate dissidents who're calling for a violent struggle against regimes they consider hostile, but they do not stop being dissidents because of that. 2nd, my (Estonian) source says that Estonia tries to issue an international arrest warrant, not to request a legal assistance from Russia. That is enough to consider Mr. Mirny persecuted, as Egyptian guy had not been tried either, he was just arrested. Estonians did not arrest Mr. Mirny for the lack of trying. RJ CG 18:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

By the way, thank you for adding proof to evidence list for WP:STALK. You appeared on this page to revert my edit and then started to randomly shuffle paragraphs. Do you hope this would be considered legitimate edits, not related to revert wars you started? RJ CG 18:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't get it - how could person from foreign country, with foreign citizenship, who probably has never been in Estonian soil and has nothing to do with Estonian regime himself, be called "dissident"? And if he has somehow broken Estonian law, how could legal measures, taken against him, qualify as "persecution"? Applying same logic, isn't then every ordinary scriptkiddie, acting against foreign country webpages, somehow dissident, and battle against international cybercrime - oh dear - systematic persecution of dissidents?
Well, RJ, I think that you owe us here a bit more explanations, or maybe some independent sources that would also call mr Mirny "dissident". Otherwise, I'm afraid we have to remove this section.
--Ptrt 13:12, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, we had been through it before while editing Rein Lang article. Drama "Adolf" had been (and still is) called "antifascist" on the ground that it "reveals Hitler's warped mind" and so on. Mr. Mirny's alleged crime is "calls for violent regime change in Estonia" made in Internet. A Dissident, broadly defined, is a person who actively opposes an established opinion, policy, or structure. There's nothing in this definition about nationality, ethnic origin or previous credentials. So he's a dissident and he committed his alleged crime in cyberspace. If it doesn't fit the bill, I don't know what it. BTW, yandex.ru (biggest search engine of Russophone web segment) returns 26 hits on "Alyosha Mirny" and "dissident". I consider that proof enough.RJ CG 14:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Mr. "Mirny"'s crime is calling for terrorist acts against Estonian infrastructure, with particular instructions to use arms and attack factories, bridges, governmental constructions and other objects. Such calls constitute a crime under both laws of the Republic of Estonia and the Russian Federation; accordingly, a MLAT applies and Russia can be expected to provide assistance. In practice, that's unlikely, though.

Calling a random criminal a "dissident" is demeaning to real dissidents, not to mention counter-factual. Digwuren 14:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Let's stick to question about being dissident (or not), Lang or Adolf and discussions held in past somewhere else are completely irrelevant here.
Question: why is poor mr Mirny "persecuted"? Is it only because his beliefs or because his criminal activity? Calls to violence, what my opponent is very keen to call irrelevant, are the one and only reason why Estonian police is interested from this poor blogging individual. That kind of activity is some or other way criminalized everywhere, it doesn't matter against what you are, violence is the keyword. So, while I even could agree to call mr Mirny "political dissident" by definition, I'm strongly objecting to call legal actions against him "persecution" - this is normal criminal investigation (where unfortunately one country refuses to provide any assistance, despite agreements between countries).
As with yandex, like my opponent himself said, this is "search engine of Russophone web segment" - so I'm little concerned how independent these results really are - sorry, but it's known fact that Russophone web is a bit biased when dealing with Estonia.
So, bottom line - sorry, but I'm still not very convinced that this saga about poor mr Mirny is appropriate here.
--Ptrt 15:42, 10 August 2007 (UTC)