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Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive13#Willy on Wheels legal action? → Wikipedia talk:Vandalism in progress/Willy on Wheels#Willy on Wheels legal action? — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 00:17, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

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Special:Log/newusers - See also Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Newuserlog. Originally posted by cesarb 22:34, 7 September 2005 (UTC) moved by — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 23:23, September 7, 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I, AllyUnion, in my official capacity as programmer-in-particular, hereby bestow upon the Wikipedia, the mighty and presigious Reset Button for all Sandboxes, including the templates "Please leave alone" templates. For any questions regarding this particular reset button, please let me know. --AllyUnion (talk) 11:34, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

General

New users log

Take a look: Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Newuserlog. --cesarb 22:34, 7 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think Special:Log/newusers is an excellent idea, but could we take it out of Recent changes? Zoe 23:22, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

I don't see what's wrong with putting it there. All you have to do is make an option that allows for it to not be in there. By the way, # (User creation log); 19:22 . . Dysphenctional (Talk) (newusers: Created the user "Dysphenctional" (Talk; Contributions)) is a bit wordy, don't you think? — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 23:25, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

I would prefer it on recent changes, just in case a long term vandal shows up, so you can block right away. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:40, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I love it! Thank you devs. And I think having it on recent changes is a good idea; swat the baddies as they go by. (I suppose it could be visible to admins only, or toggled on/off; many options possible) Antandrus (talk) 01:47, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's awesome, but can we get block links right there too? Is that possible? - Taxman ^Talk 21:27, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

Bah, all of my links have a block link :-) L upin 21:07, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ahhyes, I found your popups tool after I asked the above. I suppose that relives a developer from adding a block to the log. Not everyone is going to find that tool though. Anyway, thanks for working on it. I like it so far. - Taxman ^Talk 23:58, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

I've created a monobook.js script that adds additional links to the Newusers log: User:Func/wpfunc/nupatrol.js, including a block link. Func( t, c, @, ) 16:12, 15 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The MilkMan situation

The MilkMan promises to be nice. He claims that he is not Willy after all, and that he has seen the error of his ways. So I unblocked his last account MilkMan_New_And_Improved (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (which didn't turn out to be uncontroversial, as might be expected), and hope that assuming good faith works. However, obviously we should keep an eye on him. If he vandalizes again, feel free to come down upon him like a ton of bricks, but that would probably only mean hunting his socks again, and I hope that everyone agrees we have better things to do. We can avoid that if he really wants to be a good editor. -- grm_wnr Esc 01:57, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Update: He has now chosen a less controversial name for himself, Milky Way (talk · contribs). Of course above caveats still apply. -- grm_wnr Esc 02:03, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

He basically made that same statement on User talk:MilkMan Has A New Route. And I basically reminded him of the famous quote, "Heav'n hath no rage like love to hatred turn'd, nor Hell a fury, like a woman scorn'd" Zzyzx11 (Talk) 18:34, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

why do some people think the world must be so terribly interested in them? dab (ᛏ) 10:09, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm willing to assume good faith on in terms Milky Way turning over a new leaf, so on the assumption that he is being a good user we need to start dealing with all the people trying to impersonate him and sully his reputation even before he has a chance to build up a good reputation. Jtkiefer ^{T | @ | C} ----- 01:08, 15 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Kurdish people

People are keeping on restoring baseless statistics. Can you interfere? --Cool Cat ^Talk 00:29, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I just interfered by adding a lot of references for these statistics. Could you on the other hand, stop deleting important information, just because they doesn't suite you personal PoV, Coolcat? -- Karl Meier 09:15, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thats false not one mentions numbers you posted regarding at least europe. It is baseless and unsourced. --Cool Cat ^Talk 16:23, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Statistics should be discussed on the article's talk page. I have half the mind of zapping it there right now. — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 00:12, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

I agree but Karl Meier prefers senseless reverting and avoids all discussion. --Cool Cat ^Talk 02:01, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Special:Listusers

Can we get some user accounts deleted? Looking at just the first page of Special:Listusers isn't particularly pleasant right now. violet/riga (t) 09:11, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

yes, with all the throwaway vandal accounts, these start to clog up the database. I imagine that, likewise, all the indefinite blocks will affect performance. It would probably be safe to delete all indefinitely blocked accounts with less than 20 edits or so this would rid us of documents like [1]. dab (ᛏ) 10:06, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

it would be posible to create 50 accounts that fill the first page.Geni 15:32, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

For GFDL reasons, we can not legitimately delete any account that has made a contribution, even if they are subsequently permanently blocked. I would have no objection to deleting accounts that are old and have never been used. For the blocklist, recent inquires were made about whether the 4000+ entries are slowing down performance, and the conclusion was that checking this only amounts to a couple percent of present processing time per action, and so is not currently a good target for improving performance. Dragons flight 16:19, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

What if their contributions are also deleted? If they just made a user page, it can be deleted; if they vandalized an article, can't it be deleted and then every revision but the vandalism and its reversion restored? ~~ N (t/c) 16:32, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

At a technical level, such contributions should probably be removed from the database, not just deleted, if the account that made them was also going to be deleted, so that the edits could not be restored. This is a technical capacity that only developers have currently. At a legal level it would be necessary to check (probably by hand) that there were absolutely no future versions of any article or talk page derived from any edit of the person in question. This means not only checking that the edits were reverted but also that no one later put any of that material back. I think that the legal morass would plainly outweight the benefits in all but the unproductive cases of vandalism (e.g. WoW). For someone like Willy who frequently does absolutely nothing of benefit, deleting his "contributions" and those accounts is probably okay in most cases, but it would also mean erasing most records of what he had done. I am inclined to believe that having a record of his actions is probably better than removing a few accounts from Special:Listusers. However, as above I have no object to removing accounts that have never been used at all. Dragons flight 16:58, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

I am aware that it is not a trivial matter, but those accounts whose edits were all reverted, the edits can be safely removed from the database, and the account deleted, GFDL or no GFDL. That will need quite some churning, I imagine, but I imagine if we want to do it, such a db cleanup process could be running in the background, and slowly remove traces of those account that left no trace in article texts anyway. A better approach would be to not block vandal accounts, but block their IPs instead -- the vandals don't care if their throwaway accounts are blocked, so why burden the blocklist with those? For this, admins would need access to the IPs of logged-in vandals. This would also allow us to put temporary rangeblocks on the ISP on re-dialling logged-in vandals. dab (ᛏ) 11:53, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What about account name squatting? — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 00:10, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps the accounts could be renamed to something else though. -- Joolz 00:49, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

AfD for 3 September seems messed up.

Anyone know what's gone wrong on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2005 September 3. Maybe it's just me but there are scores through everything (including page controls). I don't get this on any other wikipedia page that I have tried. JeremyA (talk) 18:46, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's just you. It looks ok to me at the moment. -Splash 18:56, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, you're probably right because it looks fine to me now too. I think that maybe one of my AfD closures messed it up for some reason, because after I closed another one it was fixed. JeremyA (talk) 19:03, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Please help!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S

Acharya S is subject to repeated harassment and threats from religious fanatics. Wikipedia is being used to disseminate personal information about the author. I doubt the creators of Wikipedia envisioned that it would be used in such a way. It is akin to publishing the whereabouts of Salmon Rushdie, or abortion doctors, then feigning innocence as to the implications.

Please help!

24.64.223.203 21:33, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This sound like Tawana Brawley to anyone? How about some evidence? I hate to break it to anyone but there have been far more persuasive and damaging critics of Christianity than her tired and derivative stuff. You can find similar books claiming Christianity is a fraud or a rehash of other myths remaindered every day at Barnes & Noble. Even Pat Robertson can do more damage to Christianity in a single speech than you have in a lifetime. Find another hobby. alteripse 22:15, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to complain about the behaviour of the above admin Alteripse. He has not helped in resolving the issue, instead choosing to inflame it even more. It should be obvious that the author in question does not want her name published, otherwise she would not have published under a pen name. In addition, in one of the articles linked to on the page, she notes that her name was originally published without her permission.

The author does not limit her subject matter to Christianity; she writes about religion in general, including Islam. It is a very controversial subject, and her privacy should be respected! She has received threatening emails along the lines of 'we know who you are' which link to the Wikipedia article in question. It's disgusting that Wikipedia would be used this way. When I point this out, his response is along the lines of a dismissive 'I don't believe you.'

In addition, besides refusing to remove her name, (and in fact, inserting it back in after it was deleted... in bold no less!), the above admin Alteripse has acted (I believe) inappropriately in his (or her?) capacity as an admin in other ways. For instance, he replaced a list of the authors credentials:

Acharya S was classically educated receiving an undergraduate degree in Classics, Greek Civilization, and received her Masters Degree from Franklin & Marshall College. She is a member of an institute for the study of Ancient Greek Civilization, the American School of Classical Studies at Athens, Greece. She has served as a trench master on archaeological excavations in Corinth, Greece, and Connecticut, USA, as well as a teacher's assistant on the island of Crete. Acharya S has traveled extensively around Europe, and speaks, reads and/or writes English, Greek, French, Spanish, Italian, German, and Portuguese.

with:

Acharya S is... an American critic of Christianity, and amateur "historian, mythologist, religious scholar, linguist, and archeologist".

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Acharya_S&diff=23158313&oldid=23156577

When confronted with the above not-so-subtle attempt to smear the author, he says:

"I am curious as to why you think calling her an amateur is a "smear" or is inaccurate. It means she doesn't work as a professional religious studies scholar or academic classicist. It changes the standards by which we judge an author's work. Why is that a smear?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Acharya_S

Oh phuleease! That's not what my dictionary says...

All this leads me to suspect that Alteripse is biased and has an axe to grind. However, that's not for me to decide. I am just writing to alert you to his behaviour. As it stands, he has agreed not to repost her name, for which I am thankful.

Thank you for your attention.

James, BC Canada

24.64.223.203 20:03, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

you have an odd dictionary. I'm an amateur admin (we all are).Geni 22:20, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You will have to make allowances: lots of words seem to mean something different to James than to the rest of us and he has a little trouble with accuracy. I did not replace the paragraph but moved it one paragraph further down because it was less important than the one he put it front of. alteripse 22:34, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Acharya S is not an 'amateur'. She is a professional. Consider her credentials. She is highly trained, and gets paid for researching and writing books. I realize you are amateurs; this is wikipedia after all. I just expected that efforts would be made to help protect the privacy of living authors who are routinely threatened by religious fanatics, from different denominations, due to the controversial nature of her work. BTW, I hear that Natalie Portmans privacy was protected here on Wikipedia. Please extend the same courtesy to this author!

24.64.223.203 22:59, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm curious, if her name is publicly available, not something somebody dug up, what is wrong with having the name (in the current initialized form) in the article? As for Natalie Portman, her article DOES provide her real name. --Ragib 23:06, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm asking as a courtesy. Her name was originally published without her permission and against her wishes. She receives a steady stream of hate mail and threats due to the controversial nature of her work. While her name is disseminated on fringe Christian websites and message boards such as 'RisenJesus.com', I was hoping that the admins here would not allow Wikipedia to be used for that distasteful purpose.

(Also, I understand that Natalie Portmans privacy was respected for some time, but I wasn't there.) 24.64.223.203 00:36, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your requests are unreasonable. We can't "remove" information, because it's still stored in the page history. Thus, we'd have to delete it. However, the person in the article appears not to fit into deletion criteria: she seems to be notable, no one has nominated the article for deletion yet, so it would against the goals of Wikipedia to remove the article. Publishing a persons last name, books they have written, and a brief background of academic endeavours is not an unreasonable look into someone's life for any Encyclopedia article. And last and foremost of all, this belongs on the pertinent article's talk page. — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 01:10, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Can admins delete words from edit summaries?

Hi admins, I was just wondering if any of you can delete an edit summary, I mean in this one [2] (it might be an insignificant thing, but I'm really proud of this article :) and I don't like vandals :( Alensha 22:33, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Short answer, no. Long answer, no, because we don't have the technical capabilities to do it, and the developers (if they have the capabilities, which I'm not sure they do) are unwilling/unable to do it because edit summaries are supposed to be a permanent record and may be important in GFDL citations, etc. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 22:44, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. Alensha 22:46, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A partial solution is to delete the article, and then undelete all revisions other than the vandalised one (and perhaps the reversion of that vandalism). This will stop it showing in the page history, but it will still be visible at Special:Undelete. Angela . 22:38, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Please fix forked talk page

For what seem to me transparently disruptive reasons, the rejected policy proposal WP:TOBY now has two forked talk pages. Although one claims to be a version of the other with images removed, this is in fact not the case; discussion has forked, with people replying on one page or the other.

This state of affairs is disruptive.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, J. Random User like me can't fix it with a couple of page moves, because of the (perfectly reasonable) restrictions on page moves. (I actually haven't tried, for fear of breaking it worse.) So it needs administrative attention.

The current state of affairs is likely to lead to or worsen a dispute, since there currently is starting to be a bit of Bad Reverting Behavior on the proposal page itself, over whether the page is a {{proposal}} or a {{rejected}}. In order to resolve disputes we need to have a working talk page without anyone bozoing it up with "censorship".

The idea of a "censored talk page" is contrary to Wikipedia policy anyway.

So would some fair-minded administrator please move the "uncensored" page to Wikipedia talk:Toby and the "censored" one to something like Wikipedia talk:Toby/"Censored" Archive? Or something? Anything?

Thanks much. --FOo 23:59, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If anything, do it the other way around, because the censored page has more (and more recent) discussion. Also, if one page is "transparently disruptive", it's the uncensored one; I don't want useless images of syphilitic genitals staring me in the face while I debate a policy. ~~ N (t/c) 00:11, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't give a damn, honestly, just as long as there is one (1) -- eine, un, odin, uno -- talk page. Not two. --FOo 01:14, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the harm in having two, seeing as the uncensored one hasn't gotten any edits in days. ~~ N (t/c) 22:20, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:Sam999

Looks like User:Sam999 is back as User:RememberOctober29. Vandalising pages with the same Apple employment racism allegations. AlistairMcMillan 19:56, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User has been blocked. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:47, 15 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:Uriah923 SEO block

Hi, I've blocked this user from editing, and I am quite sure he is going to complain loudly. I believe I was very justified in making the block based on the user's continued and very clear history of SEO and linkspamming. It is clear his only intention is to get as many links to Omni Nerd as possible, in fact promotion is one of his roles at that site. Please read through User:Uriah923/OmniNerd (the bottom is pretty easy to start with and follow the user's contributions. I very clearly warned the user that I would block him if he kept up spreading his links all over, and that is exactly what he did [3] [4] [5] [6], for the most part on userpages of editors less likely to be familiar with our linkspam policies. So, if someone doesn't like that I did the blocking, go ahead and unblock but only if you've reviewed the situation and are prepared to block him yourself. I also reverted the linkspam from those four edits, which in hindsight wasn't the best idea, so I'll fix that in a minute, but still remove the link. - Taxman ^Talk 17:36, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To add a bit more, I was the one that unblocked this user when Dmcdevit blocked him for similar behaviour. Since then the very clear consensus emerged against the user's actions and I left a very clear warning on the user's page. Based on that I feel involvement in the situation was not a big enough problem to avoid making the block. - Taxman ^Talk 17:49, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry Taxman, anyone familiar with the preceding events and discussions knows that Uriah was pretty much just a role account, and deserved to be blocked on that score anyway. If the consensus on the ON discussion page was any indicator, you have the general support of the editors who were involved. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:04, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to add a comment to express the consent from this non-admin's point of view that Uriah definitely needed to be banned. The promise on his talk page that the bans will get longer and longer until they are permanent must be carried out unless he spontaneously decides to edit Wikipedia for purposes of creating an encyclopedia rather than adding links. Uriah doesn't respect Wikipedia policies at all, so complaints from him or anyone else that Taxman was too "involved" with the situation to ban him are laughable or uninformed, and certainly disingenuous coming from Uriah. Taxman's "involvement" has been only that of an admin enforcing Wikipedia policies. We need quicker and swifter action like this against linkspammers. Jdavidb 20:55, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

After a subsequent 72 hour block by Happycamper, Uriah has agreed not to promote ON at all. In return I've agreed not to post to his talk page. But some of his recent contributions look like they could be copyvio's also, but simply from better sources. Or it could just be more ON material. Anyone mind taking a look? In one case it just seems like too much added material from one source to not be a copyvio. - Taxman ^Talk 17:50, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Who is the "taxman posse" he refers to on his talk page archive? Am I considered part of your "posse" because I signed the ON log? I certainly did not agree not to post on Uriah's talk page, and I will definitely do so if he continues to vandalize wikipedia, as should any other editor on that list. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:49, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the so-called "Taxman Sophist Posse" refers to Taxman, me, and Jdavidb. Posse or not, any user who knowingly inserts copyrighted material into Wikipedia repeatedly constitutes a liability for Wikipedia. Not to mention spamming.

Consider this scenario: A user inserts copyrighted material into a whole bunch of articles from various sources. Say, a paragraph or two, snug in an article somewhere. Let's say, they do this, knowingly or not. A few weeks later, someone (possibly the same person) claims "copyright infringement". How are we going to handle this?

The reason why we have this situation here today, is because we have here a perfectly grey area, and an extremely messy beehive to tame. Notice how my posts to the user were constructed to reflect this. The fact that the semantics were not lost indicates that these vandals are extremely keen - and they are quite aware of it. It will be a tremendous mess to clean up, and I indeed consider this a form of vandalism that is exceptionally chronic and extremely malicious. I can see no reason for it other than to hurt Wikipedia, or for selfish promotion.

My suggestion? Lay low, don't do anything, and just observe. The first edit that crosses the line, we'll ban the user indefinitely. Then, most certainly due to the controversy of it, there will be copious discusson on the user's talk page. We can only do this, provided that we are prepared to devote time and energy to to explaining the block. Regardless of whether the user understands the ramifications, once we have explained Wikipedia's position, there is no need to further negotiate or listen to the non-compliant user. In this case, this user has had plenty of chances to do this, and I am inclined to feel that we should not prolong this situation any further by allowing compromises. Take a look at his talk page right now for example. Links to that site everywhere. Does that constitute enough of a violation for a ban? I'd be willing to bet you that they were posted deliberately to test the boundaries of permissible activities on Wikipedia. Their defense will be as follows: "You dare do this to me, you'd better do this to everyone else! Hah!". To counter this, essentially, we need to explain the interpretive difference between equity and equality, and how it has been applied specifically for this user.

Now, we don't need to do things the way I have outlined them here. It's only one of many alternatives I'm considering at the moment. Right now, our priority is to put on our super-sleuthing hats and track down whether these edits are copyvivos or not. If they are, we'll take quick action. Sound good? --HappyCamper 18:56, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As I think he has removed all pretenses of good faith now, I blocked him for 2 more weeks for linking to ON on his user page. It becomes clearer each time that his only goal is to get links to that site, and he is just brainstorming different ways to try to get away with it. I didn't have time to confirm, but it looks like some of his recent contributions are copyvios too. I suggest we extend the block because he hasn't shown any desire to contribute according to our policies, but I'll leave that to someone else. - Taxman ^Talk 12:30, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That may be more on the edge. Generally I think we pretty much allow anyone to link to any websites they want from their user page, right? As long as he's not linking to ON from articles or wasting time campaigning for ON links in articles on talk pages, I think we should've let him keep going (and see if he wants to play by the rules or not). Jdavidb 16:18, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Avengers (comics)

This is so lame that I hesitate to mention it. But here's a basic history. Avengers_fan (talk · contribs) created the New Avengers article, which is based on a comic that is a continuation of the old Avengers book. I proposed that it be merged with Avengers (comics), and despite vocal opposition from him, the consensus was that the articles should be merged, and it was done. In the process, a large portion of the writing in New Avengers was removed, because it was already summarized in Avengers (comics) in a paragraph or two which, as far as I'm concerned, retains all the essential information.

Now, Avengers_fan (talk · contribs) is insisting on reinserting his expanded edits, even though I and another editor have broken down his edits and explained why they should be condensed, are redundant, etc. Tempers are fraying because of this, but there's no 3RR because the edits are being inserted and revered about one every 24-48 hours or so. My question is: how do we deal with this? And can someone else objective have a look at it and offer an opinion on this? The Talk:Avengers (comics) page contains the arguments that have been going on. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 00:35, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Could someone please weigh in on this or suggest a course of action? I don't want to take any admin action myself because I'm one of those involved, but having to revert this guy's edits every 12 hours or so is getting ridiculous. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:47, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Take New Avengers to WP:AFD, if need be. The deletion or merging of the information through WP:AFD should be sufficient enough, presuming community consensus backing on your support, for an Administrator to take appropriate action should the article be recreated. You can try mediation as well. --AllyUnion (talk) 05:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

policy vote

Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/Blatant copyvio material. If you saw the backlog on WP:CP you would have to admit that we need this.Geni 11:57, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

New speedy deletion criterion

A reminder: Jimbo recently set a new speedy deletion criterion:

Images in category "Images with unknown source" or "Images with unknown copyright status" which have been on the site for more than 7 days, regardless of when uploaded. [7]

So he is asking us to go ahead and clear out those cats as soon as possible. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:10, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Important: Remember to change all of the pages listed in "File links" before deleting the image. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:10, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was under the impression that the more important perogative was to delete them to alleviate Wikipedia's potential exposure to legal problems? --HappyCamper 02:45, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

no need to mess up articles if it can be avoided though.

Plus the fewer annoyed users you need to explain the action to the more images you can get deleted. :) If anyone needs someone to go discuss the matter with an irate user whos pet images have been deleted, please drop me a line on my talk page or on IRC. --Gmaxwell 03:43, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any semi-automated way to get a list of images in the suspect category that are orphaned? Nandesuka 16:17, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like a nice generated list with all the orphan images in those categories. That would be fun. In the meantime, there's Special:Unusedimages, and I have a generated list of orphan images by user at User:TheCoffee/Orphan_images. Coffee 16:56, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Images that would now fall under the new CSD criteria but which are currently listed at WP:PUI or WP:IFD should be left to complete under those processes. It would seem only fair to the uploaders in these case since they would have been previously notified and given their last chance to provide source/copyright info. Otherwise, I'm in full agreement with the new CSD criteria. RedWolf 18:58, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:JarlaxleArtemis indefinitely banned

JarlaxleArtemis has been banned indefinitely. If he emails you asking to be unbanned, do not allow him. Look at User:Linuxbeak/Admin_stuff/JarlaxleArtemis for more information.

Linuxbeak | Talk | Desk 03:38, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Indopedia

I don't know if this article is even notable, but I had added it to give recognition to that website. Is it legally able to do what it is doing? Does anyone know about this - which even the former deletion edits did not show me that anyone was aware. Please look at their homepage [8] here. Tell me of anything going on on my talk page please, Molotov (talk) 19:16, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't explained what illegal thing you think that site may be doing. They're largely a wikipedia mirror; they don't properly comply with the GFDL, but they're no worse than many of those listed in Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. They don't seem to be abusing the wikipedia trademark (in that they're not claiming to be wikipedia). Wikipedia has no monopoly on the -pedia suffix. The article, however, makes no assertion of why it's a notable website, so it's quite likely someone will nominate it for deletion. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:16, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Indopedia is a particulary bad mirror in that they they aren't really compliant and their "About" page is the same as ours with a find and replace on "Wikipedia," resulting in botched statements like "Indopedia was founded by Jimmy Wales and is a trademark of Wikimedia". However, this was brought up to Angela and I think the legal mailing list and it doesn't seem to be a big priority, at least not that website in particular. As to the article, there was a Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Indopedia where it was deleted. While it is different content, would this be speedyable? Dmcdevit·t 22:27, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

GordonWatts

I usually ignore all this crap but the early closure and the page protection of this nomination smack of censorship. Wikipedia's purpose is to create a trusted encyclopedia, with these Wikipedia namespace pages mostly only existing to provide structure to the wiki and some order to the chaotic creation process. However, despite disagreeing strongly with Gordon on his pet issue - i.e. Terry Shiavo's guardian (her husband) should make decisions on her behalf and if the parents had any proof they should have brought it before the judge ruling on whether he could remain guardian instead of pulling all the political shenanigans etc - his nomination deserved to run the normal time - and the comments on it (as well as ending it early) show that idealogy is an important deciding factor for some. Now I don't have time to know all the things he did - but the early closure and protection speak volumes about some within wikipedia's desire to control debate. I find it completely unwiki. Back to editing anonymously-Abeo 20:48, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It is standard on RFA to prematurely close discussions which have overwhelming oppose votes. --cesarb 21:27, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, there's no point in wasting time on nominations when it's very clear that there will be no consensus for adminship. Tuf-Kat 21:35, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed with Cesar and Tuf-Kat. Holding a nomination open, when the overwhelming majority votes to oppose, has no useful effect on the community, and only serves to spread poison and ill-will. I fully support early close of these affairs. When there's a huge negative pile-on it only hurts us. Antandrus (talk) 21:43, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I know that ending the debate early is the standard - and I hadn't followed or voted because I assumed it would end quickly. However, he seems to want to hear the criticism - hopefully to be influenced by it. And doesn't seem to be phased by the vitriolic nature of some of it - a better man than me. If one purpose is to protect the nominee, and the nominee vehmenently opposes it, I see no reason to force it closed with a page protect - let it run its course - and let Gordon waste his time responding - I doubt many of those opposed would bother to read his stuff - then it will whimper out of existence. I see no logical reason for not letting him use the page to respond to the accusations, and ending it early just makes everything more suspect and supports the cabel accusations - when it is 4/100 it will be clear that there are not untapped masses waiting to support his adminship. And if socks gather - those will be easily discovered.

In other words what purpose does it serve to not just let it run its course? Whose time does it waste? Abeo 21:39, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting from the RfA page: Nominations that will clearly fail may be removed earlier to prevent discussions that generate ill will. Paul August ☎ 21:56, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's pretty clear that continuing with a request for adminship is not going to succeed at this point. Hm. An RfC seems to be the proper forum for general criticism—perhaps an informal one similar to the one Bmicomp has set up? I don't know. But it has ceased to be a viable request for adminship, and if Gordon just wants a community forum for criticism, he can set one up somewhere else. RfA is not the place for general discussion of a user's editing behavior or philosophical debate. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 22:08, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

(Quoting selected statements from above -and commenting)

"this nomination smack of censorship" Yes, it does, and you follow John 13:15 in having followed your namesake's example and role model.
"despite disagreeing strongly with Gordon on his pet issue...i.e. Terry Schiavo’s guardian (her husband) should make decisions on her behalf" Incorrect: I opposed his appointment as guardian because he went above and beyond the (questionable) removal of the feeding tube and denied regular food and water, which is a class II felony where the crime of denial of food and medical treatment was committed: 825.102(3):"Neglect of an elderly person or disabled adult" means: A caregiver's failure or omission to provide an elderly person or disabled adult with the care...including, but not limited to, food, nutrition, clothing, shelter, supervision, medicine, and medical services..." --and also Matthew 25:31-46, which says in relevant part that: "for I {King Jesus} was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;...And these {who denied the least of the brethren and sisters food and WATER, like Terri Schiavo hello} will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
"when the overwhelming majority votes to oppose, has no useful effect on the community" Yes, it does: It can prevent others from having to endure this: "If the rights of one are violated, the rights of all are at risk" --Thomas Paine [9]
"and only serves to spread poison and ill-will." No one is forcing editors to read the page; If they do and have ill will, it can only mean they have a guilty conscience; A clean conscience would not be bothered: The RfA page is for the uneducated, and -since it is not the "main page" in Wikipedia, it won't disrupt anything; you are unnecessarily superstitious and uncertain of your case if this little page will rock your world; Are you sure you're not feeling guilty for not supporting me?
Updates here: User_talk:GordonWatts/RfA -if you can handle seeing massive policy violations.--GordonWatts 00:23, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find any evidence that any of the people you quote have at any time edited wikipedia.Geni 00:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"I can't find any evidence that any of the people you quote have at any time edited wikipedia." Are you talking to me, Geni? The quotes appear in the paragraphs immediately above my post. Do you not see them? I boldfaced the excerpts and put quote marks around them -just like I did your quote. Look at the top where it says: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/GordonWatts|GordonWatts and then scroll down to see who I quoted and what I had to say.

PS: I tried to post this last night, but Wiki was down.--GordonWatts 10:14, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

J.O.K.E. I'm pretty sure whoever wrote the gosple of of john never edited wikipedia. Dto Thomas Paine (Ths is wikipedia. You have no "rights"). The people who make the descission that a vote should end eary (basicaly buracrats and admins) belong to a group large enough to make sure that anyone who they don't want as admin doesn't become one (well unless jimbo or the comitte intervens). Your RF was going to fail (at an absolute minium you would have needed 68 support votes). Complaints about it being removed atchive nothing other than provideing cover for someone who really did want to abbuse the system by removeing one (and for that the cabul thanks you). Your Editcountitis bit is odd since your data shows that people with far less edits than rejected candidates can get through (to mess up your claim even further I had only 1200 edits). The raw number of admins thing ignores the role that non admins can play in looking after pages. FWIW Jimbo can pretty much do what he likes. Live with it or try and get elected to the comitte.Geni 12:28, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

'J.O.K.E.' OK, I missed that -I must have been too logical, like Mr. Spock, lol. "Your Editcountitis bit is odd since your data shows that people with far less edits than rejected candidates can get through..." You miss the point about how I have only edited 200 or so pages, and have about 11.7 edits per page; That is what I mean: People criticize an editor if he or she has "concentrated" on a few pages, but that does not make one a bad editor: 200 is still quite a large number, even if it is not as much as some people have edited (some people have edited around a thousand pages -wow -get a life people!)--GordonWatts 13:15, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to avoid commenting on this whole sordid affair, but I can't let this pass. Get a life? You're doing yourself no favors here. android79 13:27, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Get a life? You're doing yourself no favors here."I am actually quite busy cleaning my room, looking for a job, but also trying to help people get straight on some lingering Wikipedia abuses; No, Wikipedia is not evil, but it have major problems, but I think my advice to them "super-editors" (get a life) is good advice for me too; Thx for weighing in; I hope to take your advice.--GordonWatts 14:02, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Doing the stuff admins powers are useful in helping in will as a matter of course mean that you edit a large number of pages rather than sticking around on a relitivly small number. We hve no use for more paper admins.Geni 14:10, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I just hope that no court judges what is a felony and what isn't based on what the Bible says. — JIP | Talk 12:42, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- — JIP, I was directing my commentary about the Bible to the original poster, because he believes in the Bible like me; You don't have to believe like we do, but I think it would be good --even for the judges, because the way this World is getting evil, maybe they need to make some changes, and "Thous shalt not kill, tell lies, commit adultury, cheat, or otherwise be bad," would probably help this evil, crime-ridden world.--GordonWatts 13:15, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  - Sorry, I did not notice you were directing your comments to a fellow believer. I mistook them to apply generally. "Thou shalt not kill, tell lies, commit adultery, cheat, or otherwise be bad" are all good ideas and I wish judges would hold them as ideals. However, this is because they're good ideas on their own right, not because they're in the Bible. "It's in the Bible" should never be used as a blanket statement in verifying or proving anything. — JIP | Talk 13:29, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    - No big deal, — JIP, and you're right: It's correct because it's correct, not because it's in the Bible. But that old book does have a good track record for having good advice in many cases, even if some of it's hard to understand in modern culture. Thanks again for your feedback; You all have a good one.--GordonWatts 14:02, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Imitation of user on Expansion theory

Someone, who has been engaging on a single-handed revert war, has imitated my username on Expansion theory. In particular there are four reversions: [10], [11] [12] [13], by somone who has a user name that appears identical to mine, but who is not in fact me. Clicking on the imitator's talk and user page lead to an empty talk and user page, yet I can't tell the difference between our usernames. Salsb 12:39, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's User:SaIsb, with a capital I (eye) as the third letter. You are User:Salsb, with a small l (ell) as the third letter. I will temporarily block him for now, other admins might investigate whether he should be blocked permanently for impersonation. — JIP | Talk 12:49, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Imitating another username with the intention to impersonate is clearly prohibited by the username policy. I have blocked indefinitely. Carbonite | Talk 12:53, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I blocked him for 24 hours 4 minutes after you blocked him indefinitely, because I had not yet seen your comment. Is there any harm in this? — JIP | Talk 12:57, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not. I'm not 100% sure about the way blocks interact with each other (especially with MediaWiki 1.5), but I believe the first block takes precedent. If this isn't the case, any admin can reblock should they see the fake account editing again. Carbonite | Talk 13:03, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Unless this has been fixed very recently (say the last month), then it is a quirk of blocking that the shortest block takes precedence. Hence it is necessary to clear the short block before adding an infinite block. I have now done this for this case. Dragons flight 14:23, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I added the {{impostor}} template and protected the user page. Not even that creative an impostor – he didn't even bother to copy your user page text! android79 13:01, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks everyone! Salsb 15:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've blocked the following additional impostor accounts:

SaIsb_( (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Salsb_( (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Salsb: (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Note that the last one fits the following pattern:

Phroziac: (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Wikibofh: (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Sasquatch: (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Tony_Sidaway: (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Any idea which user(s) recently interacted with any/all of them? There may be a bigger pattern here; watch out for further activity. --MarkSweep✍ 14:10, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A partial pattern appears to be that the people impersonated have all edited Talk:Expansion theory, except Phroziac (talk · contribs). Because Phroziac was targetted, I suspect this could be a disguised Marmot incident.--Tony Sidaway ^Talk 14:48, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

While we're on the subject, I noticed I am a potential target for impersonation myself. So I thought, since I'm an admin, why don't I create the obvious impersonator user myself, then log in to my real account, and immediately block the fake impersonator indefinitely? AFAIK you cannot create a user with the same name as an already existing one, even if it's been blocked indefinitely. — JIP | Talk 09:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why woild you need to block it? If you have a sleeper account, nobody can create it, so you should be OK with a good password. I only ask because I also have a lowercase l (ell) in my username, too. Filiocht | Talk 10:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As far as new user patrol is concerned, any accounts that are not supposed to be used (whether created by impostors or to prevent impostors) should be blocked so that they don't show up as suspicious accounts on anyone's radar. Better yet, don't create any doppelganger accounts: it's unlikely that you'll cover all the bases (with Unicode, there are just way too many options), and it just creates more work for everyone. Impostors are usually quickly spotted and blocked, so there's no reason for any preemptive strikes, IMHO. --MarkSweep✍ 18:54, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Doppelganger accounts. --cesarb 19:30, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

So it is not a bad idea, and no need to block? Filiocht | The kettle's on 14:15, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

image deletion

Per an exchange at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(assistance)#User_talk:Zscout370.23Photos, the new image deletion policy is seriously annoying at least some users. One such user has proposed what I think is a great solution to the image copyright problem that may help avoid more hard feelings about it. Can we please make sure users are warned before deleting images they've contributed? And if an aggrieved user lashes out at you can you please respond in a sympathetic manner? Copyright violations are serious business, and we need to fix it, but let's try very hard to fix it in a way that is least annoying to our many, many, many good users. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:17, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There are 12,000 images in one of those cats and uncounted many thousands in the other. Giving out messages is wildly unfeasible. As it is we have to check the images history to see that it was tagge >7days ago and then remove it from the article and then delete it, and give a delete summary for why. Adding more to the process is just too much. -Splash^talk 03:31, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The proposal is to sort them by user, and deal with them user-by-user rather than as a massive clump of unsorted images. user:Beland is quite adept at making lists of things - I've asked if he can do this. The request is to pause a bit to let this proposal play out. If we can achieve the goal (eliminate unsourced images) without alienating more users, I think it's worth a little inconvenience on our part in the interim. We may even be able to create lists sorted by user, showing the date of the user's last contribution. I'm unwilling to say "wildly unfeasible" until we've thought about it a bit. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:48, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think users should necessarily be notified, but these images should be deleted manually, I've already found and tagged a number of PD images (and reuploaded 1 that was deleted). For maximum awareness this project should be announced on the header of recent changes, maybe that will also get some people who know they have uploaded unsourced images to go back and check and tag.--nixie 04:23, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't do the grouping by user, but meta:DynamicPageList might be a better way to sweep. See, for a non-working example, User:Bovlb/no source which would display no-source images by last edit, oldest first, displaying the date they were added to the category. Bovlb 07:14, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds like a perfect use of a bot for me. Bot gets list of images, sorts by user, gives user a notice, and a few days later checks and if necessary deletes the image. -- Chris 73 Talk 10:42, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. Two suggested tweaks: 1) bot checks uploaders contribs - if user hasn't edited in a long time, there's no point in warning them, and deletion can proceed immediately. 2) it's probably better for the bot to generate an "images to be deleted today" list (perhaps divvied up into handy blocks, so labour can be efficiently divided), as people might be squeamish about such an extensive deletion bot. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:51, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The deletions should not be done by a bot. Firstly, the images have to removed from articles, and I wonder if we have bot that is capable of searching the code reliably for a particular image and removing it without causing carnage. Secondly, just occasionally, there is some sort of info in/around the image that does indicate its license status (or likely status) and we wouldn't want to discard those. -Splash^talk 14:21, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I posted sample lists, linked from the above-mentioned Village Pump page. I also agree that user notification (but not irreversable image deletion) would be a good job for a bot. The upload form could also be better designed to prevent this sort of problem. Really, the thing to ask most people is whether or not they 1.) took the picture or made the drawing themselves, 2.) downloaded it from the web, or 3.) got it from an offline source. If 1, then we can presume GFDL based on a click-through license, unless they specify something different. If 2, we can ask for the URL, and then someone can find the copyright holder's original license, or at least e-mail their webmaster. If 3, we can ask for the name of the copyright holder, and whether or not the uploader has personal knowledge that the copyright holder has declared that the image may be used by anyone, for any purpose, without fee or restriction. I really don't think just tagging an image "CC" or "PD" or "GFDL" really gives enough information, especially if there's a dispute. I think due diligence would include at least trying to gather some evidence that the claimed license is correct, or having some way to verify that. There's absolutely no guarantee that the uploader will be around a month or a year or even a day from now to answer questions. -- Beland 05:15, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To notify folks about this, how about if rather than a talk page message we include a note in one of the "trim" messages displayed with a user's watchlist (e.g. MediaWiki:Watchlistsub) or something similar to the "please donate" messages? Something like "NOTICE: Any images that do not have verifiable source and copyright information will be deleted on <date>. Please make sure this information is provided for any images you've uploaded. See <somewhere> for details about this." Where <date> is perhaps October 1 and <somewhere> is a page including at least a link to the upload log for the user. Seems like either of these would be noticed by pretty much anyone still actively editing. -- Rick Block (talk) 13:12, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is a great idea. We could edit MediaWiki:Watchlistsub or MediaWiki:Watchdetails. Coffee 16:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the text I'm thinking about adding to MediaWiki:Watchdetails:

NOTICE: All images that do not have verifiable source and copyright information are being irreversibly deleted in accordance with Wikipedia policy. Please make sure this information is provided for any images you've uploaded (images you've uploaded can be found using this log - enter your username in the "User:" box). Also see Wikipedia's image use policy.

Any suggestions (in particular, anyone know how to get the current username so the upload log link can be the log for the individual user)? -- Rick Block (talk) 03:57, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If we only do a blanket watchlist notification, I'm sure a lot of people won't get it. I certainly wouldn't - my watchlist is too large to check regularly. I'm sure many people who are unaware of proper procedure for image uploading don't regularly use their watchlists, either. Putting a message on the user talk page also has the benefit that you get the message even if you are doing casual reading and not intending on editing. The blanket notification is perhaps useful in the near term, but unidentified image deletion will be an ongoing issue, so I think a bot would still be useful. Having one would allow admins who want to clean these categories to just delete images that have been sitting there the requisite length of time without comment, knowing the uploader has been duly notified without having to check. -- Beland 03:29, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. - I've added a Wikipedia:Bot requests, though I don't know if I'll be able to implement it myself in the near future. -- Beland 03:30, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if we have bot that is capable of searching the code reliably for a particular image and removing it without causing carnage

Well, actually, all the bot would need to do is use the "What links here" and remove the image appropriately off the page. Such a bot can be programmed reasonably using the Python Wikipedia Framework, although it's a fair daunting piece of code work that would need to be done for it to do so properly. I whole hardly agree on the fact that the bot should not be deleting the image, but I think a proper solution is for the bot to post the list of images, what pages it is being used on, confirm the notification to the user, and indication of when it can be deleted assuming no response at a certain page. I am also in agreement here with Beland on the implementation of the bot, as there are several unresolved issues that need to be addressed before the bot can be properly programmed.

Although... I do have a thought for two separate scripts:

A script for the assistance of notification of unverified or unfree images
A script that removes the image from all linked pages where it is being used and generates a link for the deletion of the image.

Anyway... some food for thought. --AllyUnion (talk) 06:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Improve this article about Wikipedia

As I just posted on the Village Pump, there's a journalist doing a story about Wikipedia, and is inviting Wikipedians to help edit part of his story (and I would encourage everyone to take a look).

Which means we should probably expect a steady influx of vandalism—so this is a heads-up to admins to be on the lookout for vandalism on Wikipedia:Improve this article about Wikipedia of both the obvious and sneaky varieties. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 17:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This has recently ended. -- user:zanimum

Cheese Dreams sockpuppet?

I've received notification (via a private email) that 132.241.245.49) looks suspiciously like a sockpuppet of banned user CheeseDreams (to the point where the IP is even signing as 'CD'). Could someone look into this? →Raul654 23:35, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

California State University? Not all comments signed CD I don't know.Geni 23:42, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with witchhunting is that you start seeing witches everywhere. There's no way this is CheeseDreams. CD is a woman, literate and, so far as I know, English. That should narrow it down for you, Mark. Grace Note 23:55, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RM

There is now a three week backlog of requests at WP:RM. I've not been around to do the process much, and it seems that nobody else has either. violet/riga (t) 09:38, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:Anittas

I wasn't going to bring this up here (or anywhere), but it might be worth forewarning people. I corrected some edits made by Anittas (talk · contribs), and copy-edited an article that (it turned out) he though that he owned (Battle of Vaslui). He reacted extremely aggressively and insultingly ([14]), and reverted my edits wholesale([15]). So far, so depressingly familiar. He's also gone on to try to enlist other editors and admins against my appalling behaviour in editing his articles (e.g., [16]),with little success, and then went in for a bit of stalking, leaving messages full of hysterical vitriol against me for editors with whom I was in disagreement (e.g., [17], etc. He's been trawling through edit histories, trying to find anyone with whom I've been in disagreement (mostly banned vandals such as Enviroknot (talk · contribs) and his sockpuppets), and leaving messages on their Talk pages trying to enlist their help against me. A number of editors have tried to reason with him, but to no avail. At the moment he's just a nuisance, even mildly amusing, but it might escalate, so I'm explaining here in advance. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:07, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Where I come from being called a "nihilistic snob" is quite a compliment and his confusion over your rouge admin status bordered on vaudevillian... Or is it vaude-villain? FeloniousMonk 23:46, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hey FM, was rouge deliberate? ):- Moriori 23:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's a pun on Mel and a few others having been labled "rogue admins" some time ago by an editor with a history of misspellings. It's evolved into a running joke with it's own award... see my talk page for an example. FeloniousMonk 00:07, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sollog

Could someone remind me, is sollog banned or not? --fvw * 01:57, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If you're referring to User:Sollog Fan, he's pretty blatently a troll/impostor of User:Sollogfan. --Carnildo 03:58, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've blocked him indefinitely. --MarkSweep✍ 04:39, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. --fvw * 04:48, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think anybody who has relations to sollog is banned for vandalising Wikipedia... not sure if it's written anywhere but that's my general impression. Sasquatcht|c 04:34, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That might be a bit too radical, but I certainly don't see any problems with considering sollog and those who can reasonably be assumed to be sollog banned, which in effect is pretty close to that. --fvw * 04:48, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, pretty much if a user has "Sollog" as his/her name and likes to edit the Sollog article... you should watch them very very carefully... Sasquatcht|c 02:35, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

How can it be Sollog? Isn't he in jail? Everyking 04:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Iasson

Iasson (talk · contribs), who is under a constantly reset 1-year block (currently set to expire on 20 September 2006), created a couple of obvious sockpuppets (one admitted (Hermodike (talk · contribs)) and the other obvious (Demodike (talk · contribs)). As per his usual practice, he used the user names as the passwords, so I have taken the liberty of changing the passwords. If this action was inappropriate, please let me know. And if the person behind either name or an administrator wants the new password, I will gladly send it along if they send me an e-mail. --Calton | Talk 07:12, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That action is fine.Geni 10:52, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The same old mistake and misunderstanding! Demodike is Faethon. Iasson never used his user name as his password! I just wanted to check, after such a long long time, whats happenig with Iasson's case, and I realized that some people are having an enormous obsession with him. They are patroling his rfc 24 hours per day! I added a comment in Iasson's RFC pretending that I am supporting Iasson's POV (which in reality I dont), and it has been reverted in a few seconds. FaethonAgain 11:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have indefinitely blocked FaethonAgain (talk · contribs) [18] for being either a sock or an imposter of Iasson/Faethon. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 11:20, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User SPUI

I personally find User:SPUI talk page offensive. Can anything be done? 207.69.139.149 09:17, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not. --SPUI (talk) 09:38, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You go girrl. keep up the baiting and they will come. and don't ever let anyone tell you that your attention seeking is pitifull, just keep telling yourself that you're right and the rest of the world is wrong, over and over again. I love you just the way you are SPUI. don't ever grow up. ...Can anything be done?. Hee hee, Nice touch baby!! (although you could have picked a more creative ip). ROLFFLMAO.

User:MutterErde

This user appears to be using Wikipedia to store pornographic images. Check especially User:MutterErde/Nudity2; this page is a gallery of various softcore porn images (all apparent copyvios). I can't investigate this further right now; it would be good if someone went through his contributions and checked to see if he does anything OTHER than upload porn. If not, I recommend that he be banned. Note: I've been told on IRC that this user is banned from dewiki; might be an idea to find out why. Kelly Martin 14:01, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

See de:Wikipedia:Benutzersperrung/Archiv/Mutter Erde and de:Wikipedia Diskussion:Benutzersperrung/Archiv/Mutter Erde, also de:Spezial:Contributions/Mutter_Erde. The user was apparently banned for forging a signature and uploading porno. Lupo 14:27, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

MutterErde on de seems to be a hot topic. There's tons of stuff to read, a lot of nastiness, and I don't want to dig through all that. It might make sense to get a summary from User:Elian, she seems to have been involved. -- grm_wnr Esc 14:30, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I weeded trough the stuff in the German wikipedia (and it took me quite a while) and it's a little bit more than the offenses mentioned above (I would say it includes WP:POINT to a certain extent, amongst others), and will contact Elian right afterwards (although her wikistress level seems to be quite high at the moment, so let's hope she won't explode :) ). Let's see what she has to say. Lectonar 06:36, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jimbo added an indefinite block on MutterErde last night. Ral315 21:00, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vandal on Hurrican Rita page

Somebody is adding comments aboutthe hurricane being vengance on the infidel at the end of the first paragraph. However, this text does not appear on the edit page!!213.202.147.160 14:13, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Infinite block of an IP

I have indefinitely blocked this IP address, 70.88.129.205 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log).

It has three edits on Sept 22, all vandalisms. This is apparently because it was blocked 48 hours on Sept 19. And possibly again on Sept 16.

Before September, it's quiet - two edits in August, then nothing til May. But in May, it has the exact same kind of vandalism - racism, with a dash of antisemitism.

January? Same thing. Same article. Same vandalisms. Its first edits were made in November 2004; I'm sure you can guess what they were.

This is nine months of constant vandalism from an IP address, and I really see no reason why we should put up with it. --Golbez 16:06, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

because IP's can be reasighned. Unless it is an open proxy don't block for more than a year.Geni 16:13, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

When it's reassigned, the new innocent person can contact us. However, a year is probably sufficient. --Golbez 16:18, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wait. Waitwait. LOOK AT THE BLOCK LOG.

# 15:37, May 24, 2005 Phils blocked "User:70.88.129.205" with an expiry time of 1 month (repeated vandalism, ignored warnings)
# 15:35, May 24, 2005 Phils unblocked User:70.88.129.205 (block period longer than allowed maximum, blocking for a month (see ANN/I))
# 10:33, May 24, 2005 Geni blocked "User:70.88.129.205" with an expiry time of 1 year (Repeated vanalism ignorded warnings)

# 10:10, February 2, 2005 Rdsmith4 blocked "User:70.88.129.205" with an expiry time of 6 months (IP has done nothing but vandalism for months)
# 10:09, February 2, 2005 Rdsmith4 blocked "User:70.88.129.205" with an expiry time of 6 months (Account has done nothing but vandalism for months)

My recommendation of an indefinite block remains. 6 months didn't stop him, why the hell would a year? I've dropped it to a 24 month block; I'd like to be notified if anyone considers this too long. --Golbez 16:19, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, he never actually got a 6 months block since it collided with a 1 week block and our quirky software is such that shorter blocks always win. I agree with the others here though. IP blocks for persistent vandals can be long but not forever. Dragons flight 16:40, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I saw you reblocked for 24 months.. I think that's better than indefinite. At least it'll expire at some point. There's a vandal on a Comcast IP who I've been blocking for month-long periods for a while.. his IP changed recently, so I'm glad that I've only been doing month blocks. Rhobite 16:28, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I figure just block for a month and if he comes back at the end of the month, block for another month. That's easy enough without going out on a limb making an excessively lengthy block. Everyking 22:57, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:John Henry DeJong

The following has just been left on my Talk page:

Mel -

I am the real, legitimate John Henry DeJong. Apparently, one of the losers who was jerking around with Chad Bryant's entries here a while back decided to use my name - among many others - to do it. I notice that you have placed a lock on this username. I would like to register with Wiki and perhaps contribute across a wide range of subjects including MS Access programming, web design, graphic design, web development, and most facets of popular culture, and I think it'd be real cool if I could do so under my own name (also thereby eliminating the various google hits containing my name which turn up in a search, all of which are tied to the insipid nonsense with the anti-Chads).

You may feel free to contact me by telephone at (919) 691-5425 at your leisure, or via e-mail at any one of the following addresses to verify my identity:

john at lowgenius dot com (this is the domain of my web design business; a quick look at www.lowgenius.com will show you the same phone number in the page footer)

webdesign at lowgenius dot com

domainregs at lowgenius dot com

john at roadlesstraveledtheatre dot com

lowgenius at gmail dot com

johnhdejong at hotmail dot com

lazaruslong.geo at yahoo dot com

You can also reach me via instant message: Yahoo! and MSN using the last two addresses above, AIM under the name 'jhdalg', or ICQ UIN 18076883.

Thank you for your time and consideration,

65.190.213.86 15:59, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

John Henry DeJong

Owner, Lead Designer

LowGenius Web Design

Information Director,

The Road Less Traveled Theatre, Inc.

Any thoughts/advice? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:24, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

He's perfectly able to use a variant of it, I see no reason why he has to use that particular name. --Golbez 17:29, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Registering as your exact real name helps increase your credibility on the wiki. It is one of the primary reasons why account renames are performed. I'm thinking about moving to my real name someday. — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 20:50, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I thought the same as Golbez (I also wondered why a vandal chose to use this person's name...). Anyway, Curps has suggested that I ask a bureacrat to perform a bit of technical wizardry that only a bureaucrat can, and that's what I've done. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:33, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Homosexuality in Singapore

Someone please end the nonsense going on this article. There is a revert war going on that shouldnt. --Cool Cat ^Talk 01:49, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Urdu language, Bollywood, Bhangra

All three articles are under intermittent attack by a user whom I believe, on the evidence of shared obsession and shared anon IP and sock usage, to be Harprit/70.177.166.200/69.175.46.66/JusticeLaw/205.188.117.14. The IPs may be shared IPs at a large ISP, since not all the anonIP edits match Harprit/JusticeLaw's editing pattern, just some of them.

Problem at Urdu language and Bollywood -- Harprit seems to believe, contra ALL linguistic evidence, that Urdu and Hindi are two completely different languages. He shows no inclination to discuss, just reverts. In Bhangra, he's insisting on ranking Bhangra artists into categories based on whether he thinks they're great, good, or so-so.

Urdu language was protected once, and as soon as it was unprotected, Harprit resumed the attack. It may be time to protect it again. So far, I've been able to hold him off at Bollywood and Bhangra. Zora 07:32, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I protected the page, but that's not really the solution. How about opening an RfC on this? I agree with your point on the changes from 70.* being vandalism, but opening an RfC might help resolve this dispute. Thanks. --Ragib 07:48, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen the same behavior. He does it to Hindi sometimes too. Each time no effort is made to substantiate his position. Posts the to his talk page go pretty much ignored. - Taxman ^Talk 17:45, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:Joseph108 on Vishwa Nirmala Dharma

Would anybody care to step in? Joseph108 keeps removing sections from the article without so much as an edit summary. I have left a couple notes on his talk page which have gone unanswered so far. I have already used up my three reverts, so any help would be appreciated -- Ferkelparade π 10:40, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

On it, though I'm out of here in 5 minutes. But let's see if a word from someone else has helped. --fvw * 10:49, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

AOL IP Ranges

I'm beginning to question the wisdom of the 15 minute limit on blocks to AOL IP addresses. I don't know if this has already been discussed, but the lack of effective blocking on AOL IPs in general makes AOL vandals pretty much untouchable from an admin perspective. I'm also concerned that this limit may not be totally necessary. The idea, of course, is that AOL-dialup users can change IP addresses on every page load. However, the growing class of AOL-DSL users should presumably be the same as any other broadband users, and probably retain the same IP address until they manually renew it. Can we isolate out the block ranges for dialup users, and just list those on Special:Blockip rather than extending the block protection to all AOL users? If there is a more specific place for this discussion, please let me know. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 13:39, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is that while individual AOL users may retain the same local IP address for their entire session (for DSL users, that may well be days or weeks) all of the AOL connections are passed through a limited number of proxy servers. It is the IP address of those proxies that we see on Wikipedia. Two problems seem to arise.

A large number of AOL users will pass through a particular proxy, making collateral damage due to AOL IP blocks severe.
In some cases, AOL will route a particular user through several different proxies on successive edits, making an IP block even less effective.

Correct me if I am mistaken in my understanding of AOL's network architecture.... :I'd love to be able to block certain IP ranges from anonymous editing; that would solve both problems. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:03, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This may not be popular, but what I'd like to see is a block of all the AOL proxies with instructions on how to disable proxies in your browser. For the few people still using the AOL branded browser which allegedly forces you to use the proxies, either find some technical fix or educate them on how to use a different browser. It might deviate a little from the basic anyone anywhere anytime can edit, but it would at least force vandals to redial/re-dhcp/repptp/whatever and put a serious dent in AOL's unblockability. If they have any sensible IP assignment structure it might even be possible to block certain vandals by area, at least for the DSL customers, meaning they really have to find a different ISP or open proxy to continue vandalising. --fvw * 14:14, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

whenever I use AOL I go through firefox. My IP still changes a lot. The only way people could stop this from happening is to change provider.Geni 14:21, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure you're not editing through a proxy? I haven't actually used AOL dialup, but my experiences with other people using it suggest they do assign you a routable IP address and don't use transparant proxies. --fvw * 00:20, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I really like TenOfTrade's suggestion, that we allow AOL editors, but they may not edit anonymously. Is that even possible in MediaWiki? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 15:58, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally, I've created a monobook.js script that indicates on the Special:Blockip page if an IP address is in the AOL range: User:Func/wpfunc/blockiphelp.js. Func( t, c, @, ) 17:40, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you could just revert them and not worry so much about excluding users? Just a thought. Yes, I know it's aggravating but it has to be a better solution than discriminating against AOL users. Grace Note 00:16, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:FlashAmI

The majority of edits by User:FlashAmI are needless links advertising a site (interviews with band members, not really consequential to their wikipedia articles at all). Is there a fast way to remove these without reverting (which would remove any work done since his edits)? If not, I can go through and remove them all manually later today, but an easier solution would be great too. Kertrats | Talk 13:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

AFAIK, if the article in question has been edited by someone else since the particular edit you wanted to remove, it is not possible to revert (or roll back) without loosing the changes done by other editors. I'm afraid you'd have to edit out the links concerned. Regards, Redux 03:03, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Porn star articles

Lately we've seen three articles about former porn stars publishing their real names and links to their personal (non-porn) blogs. I suggest that if this happens in the future, we remove the personal information both from the article and from its history on sight, and if all that remains is the porn star's pseudonym and a link to a porn site, delete the entire article. This would avoid discussions on this noticeboard and in WP:AFD. — JIP | Talk 14:29, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No. I've every sympathy with the sentiment that we should remove personal info from article where that information isn't generally in the public domain (or where it's published in some very minor venue, such as a chatroom or non-notable blog). But where such information is in general circulation (which is really another way of saying that it's verifiable) we should include it. This was the test we applied to the name of Kobe Bryant's accuser. It's a policy consistent with our mission to collect published information (rather than publishing new facts). I don't think an actor's real name is merely trivial - we publish the real names of Cary Grant, Rock Hudson, and Marilyn Monroe, for example. On looking at our pornstar cats, we publish the real names of Tera Patrick, Silvia Saint, and Linda Lovelace. These are all generally well known (although there are spelling variances on Saint's real name). IMDb publishes them all, as do plenty of other sources. I think the real name of a person notable enough to have a wikipedia article is itself a notable fact (generally their address and where they work now and stuff like that clearly isn't). This test (the test of verifyiability) wouldn't have prevented us from removing the material from Jordan Capri et al (as they weren't from reliable sources). JIP's test (if taken literally, as some would be wont to do) would result in our removing perfectly encyclopedic information that's widely available from respectable sources. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:31, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Finlay. An encyclopedia shouldn't be trying to reveal well-kept secrets (e.g. Jordan's real name), but it also shouldn't hide from information that is already well-established in the public sphere. It is WP:V and WP:NOR that protect the real identities of these women, which is something that has to be looked at on a case by case basis. Dragons flight 16:41, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify my point, I'm certainly not in favour of publishing stuff like actresses' addresses or present occupations. That's a general policy we seem to have arrived at by (mostly unspoken) consensus over the years - we don't publish the same details about politicians, actors, movie stars, sportsmen, or anyone else. There's a few exceptions to that, where the information is itself notable - our article on The Dakota being such an example. I'm really saying that porn performers aren't a special case, and the same criteria for inclusion and exclusion should apply to them as to everyone else. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, furthermore, on looking at Capri's realname blog, she says "I became the second most popular softcore ameture gal on the internet". As I said, I'm not in favour of exposing someone's secret identity, but it doesn't look like she's trying terribly hard to keep the correlation between her old life and her new one much of a secret. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:02, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify my point, I am only suggesting removal of real names of those porn stars who haven't revealed it themselves. If we are the primary source of a porn star's real name, it must be deleted. But if another notable online source has already revealed it, it's not so important. I too have looked at Jordan Capri's personal blog. She blatantly admits to having been a famous porn star. However, as far as I have seen, her blog never mentions either her real name or her porn pseudonym. What I disagree with her in, is the "amateur" status. She had a full-time contract with a porn studio, and was earning more on a single photoshoot than I earn in a year. That makes her a professional, like it or not. — JIP | Talk 17:41, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

JiP's right. There's absolutely no way we should publish someone's real name if it's not available elsewhere. That would be a breach of the policy on original research and would make Wikipedia a primary source, which is something I hope we can all agree should be avoided. Grace Note 00:18, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. A verifiable source that predates the inclusion of the particular piece of information on Wikipedia is required. If there's none, it must be axed out. Regards, Redux 02:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Anybody think it would be appropriate to contact the girls in question and let them know what happened? If they weren't "out" before, Wikipedia is a very public venue, and the mirrors will be around for a while regardless of what we've done, so a heads-up might be in order. Isomorphic 07:38, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Sarfatti dispute

There's been a dispute at Jack Sarfatti. The article was nominated for deletion by JIP, and then was closed also by JIP as a keep, saying to "keep as rewritten by User:Hillman". User:JackSarfatti, who claims to be the person Jack Sarfatti, and other editors, mainly User:Hillman and User:Chan-Ho Suh, seem to be engaged in an edit war. User:JackSarfatti has made numerous legal threats, claiming that Hillman is someone attempting to slander and libel him. Please see User talk:JackSarfatti, Talk:Jack Sarfatti, and Jack Sarfatti for more information.

The reason I'm posting here is to have another administrator look over the dispute and my actions. After leaving a note with User:JackSarfatti, warning him about legal threats and informing him of the WP:3RR rule (which he did violate, but I felt there was no good reason to block), I proceeded to protect the Jack Sarfatti page. I would appreciate any input on this matter, especially since involves a (seemingly) geniune legal threat against a Wikipedia user. Thanks a lot! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | W_S 00:43, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Immediate input would be appreciated, as User:JackSarfatti seems to be logged in right now. He appears to be sincere about his legal threats: "On Sep 23, 2005, at 5:39 PM, Jack Sarfatti (sarfatti@pacbell.net) wrote to Tony Smith physicist/attorney:

OK Tony they locked me out. I will inquire with the Attorney General of Florida on Monday and if Wiki is incorporated there I fill file a formal complaint that, if successful, can result in the loss of their tax exemption with the IRS." (posted to my talk page, apparently referring to the protection of the page) Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | W_S 00:48, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, the policy is to block (not ban!) people doing things like this indefinitely. --Phroziac ^(talk) 01:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

After asking on IRC, this was confirmed as true, and I have blocked the user. --Phroziac ^(talk) 01:20, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good call, for what it's worth I agree with this block entirely. --fvw * 01:25, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hehe, he's got to be kidding about the Attorney General of Florida, right? After reading the article and his rantings on the talk page, I refuse to believe anyone would take him seriously. Um, this laywer of his...is he from the future? ;-) Func( t, c, @, ) 01:35, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Folks -- I've been seeing Sarfatti come and go for years. Do not bother trying to reason with him; he is immune. Do not try to make sense out of him either. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:21, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- I can confirm what jpgordon says. Just be grateful he hasn't responded with thousand-word screeds. --Calton | Talk 11:44, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

New development: [19]. Sockpuppet? --cesarb 13:33, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so. I think it's really one of his "lawyer" friends. This diff convinces me he's really copying those emails from somewhere, not making them up from scratch. Still nothing to worry about though. Superm401 | Talk 17:59, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yellowikis

Once again, I'm objecting to "transwikiing" to yellowikis. See Wikipedia:Transwiki log/Articles moved from here/yellowikis. this is the only non-Wikimedia project which has its own "transwiki" page. Again, this gives the impression that yellowikis is a sister project. And Uncle G, there is no point in you making any attacks on me here. User:Zoe|^(talk) 06:24, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why does it matter that it is non-Wikimedia? It just means that they are mirroring our content. And considering that it is also MediaWiki and GFDL, it is just a mirror site with more documentation and compliance than most. You object to listing it on the TL? That's not a big deal at all, though I don't really mind. I also have a hard time believing Uncle G has attacked anyone, so what is that supposed to mean? 134.10.44.224 08:06, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Heh it means we know what has been coppied. What's the problem?Geni 15:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

So why do we care? If I copy an article to another wiki, I should let the world know about it at Wikipedia:Transwiki log/Articles moved from here? As I mentioned above, only yellowiki gets the privilege of having its own page, among non-Wikimedia properties. User:Zoe|^(talk) 21:23, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

(That anon was me, btw). I have to admit this is the first time I've ever seen the transwiki log referred to as a privilege. Take a look at some of the horribly unencyclopedic articles that have languished there for months. The transwiki log exists for two purposes. To aid in the transparency of the traanswiki process, which is good ofr GFDL compliance as well. And to (in my dreams) serve as a place where such unencyclopedic articles that needed transwiki could be combed through and deleted/merged/fixed somehow. Neither of those are concerns that are only for Wikimedia projects, as they both apply to that wiki as well. Try to do some cleanup at the TL and you'll see that it isn't a privilege. Again, I simply don't see why it would even matter. Dmcdevit·t 00:12, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Because nothing has yet been transwikied to other non-Wikimedia properties. If you can find another GFDL wiki, feel free to start suggesting appropriate things be sent there. I doubt there was an official decision that Yellowikis is special. ~~ N (t/c) 00:36, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I find it somewhat disturbing to be literally handfeeding our competitors content. They can go collect their own editors, or take a copy of the next database dump. -Splash^talk 00:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yellowikis doesn't really strike me as a potential "competitor" of WP, and in any case we encourage "competition" by using the GFDL and producing database dumps. The idea of "competing" against other wikis seems so against the WP ethos to me. ~~ N (t/c) 00:36, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

(after edit conflict) Why should another GFDL wiki be seen as a competitor? Seems to me that we would inherently be friends with any other source of GFDL content. Which is not to say that I plan to expend energy helping them, but I don't see any reason to complain about people that do so. Dragons flight 00:38, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say to be considered friends in this sense wikis should not only be GFDL but also once they reached a nontrivial size they should provide bulk content dumps. Otherwise any content placed there is effectively locked into only being availible in small peices not en-mass for re-use. Plugwash 00:59, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's irrelvant. Dumping large amounts of stuff on a wiki is quite an effective way to kill it. Wikinfo hasn't really taken off has it? Beyond a certian size you run into the problem that you don't have enough people to handle the size so all the imported article become a deadweight.Geni 01:02, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Just to make my concerns clear: I have no problem with people copying GFDL content from Wikipedia to any other GFDL site in the world. My objections are to the use of the term "transwiki", which implies an official relationship, and the setup of an official page to indicate the copies. Just do it and don't mention it, why should anybody care? User:Zoe|^(talk) 04:24, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well since "transwiki" seems literally to mean just moved from one wiki to another, I've never assummed the word was limited to just Wikimedia wikis. Is there some reason for thinking the word does imply an official or priviledged relationship, cause I've never read it that way. Dragons flight 04:34, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Come on. Did you read what I wrote above? I gave two good reasons. There is no implication of officiality. Indeed, I am highly suspicious that only I and two or three other editors ever look at the TL. And I don't see why this is even on the AN in the first place. It should have been brought up on the TL talk page, on individual editors' talk pages, or even the village pump or something. Bu it hasn't got a thing to do with administrators, and is not really important at all anyway. Dmcdevit·t 07:35, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Version deletion

I added a brief section on deleting revisions from the page history to Wikipedia:Deletion guidelines for administrators. I couldn't find any documentation on this ability, so I added some. It's very rough, and others should look over it, approve, and edit. Thanks! Isomorphic 08:07, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright violation, Nablus and Shechem

User:Guy_Montag has been repeatedly and belligerantly posted material that User:Jebro has painstakingly documented as having come from copyrighted sources. I have not reviewed Jebro's evidence carefully, but Guy Montag has not in any way denied it. If this matter is not dealt with swiftly, I will contact the owners of the violated copyrights, and their lawyers can address it. Marsden 13:50, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think all the heated middle east articles need is lawyers in the mix. Are the normal procedures for copyvios being followed? Secret london 14:05, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The only normal procedures I know of for copyright violations involve lawyers. As you allude, it might be better to try address the problem otherwise. Marsden 14:18, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You'd probably get better results if you didn't start threatening legal action against people who you're approaching for assistance. I'm just saying. I've left a warning on Guy's page. Do let us know if he does this again. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 14:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was never asking anyone for assistance. Please be very clear about that. If anything, I was helping Wikipedia avoid being involved in a crime. And someone ought especially to thank User:Jebro for all of his effort on this. Marsden 14:38, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The copyvio'ed material must be removed, which you did. Since he was edit warring to put it back, coming to us was the right thing to do. Based on his statements, and an assumption of good faith, I am going to assume he thought using that material was okay, but it clearly does not look that way. If he continues to readd it without some substantive proof that it is some how free content, then he should be blocked for a reasonable amount of time. If after that he still doesn't get the point, well Jimbo considers intentionally violating the copyrights of others to be grounds for a permanent ban, so admins have quite a lot of discretion in dealing with an issue such as this. Dragons flight 14:49, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merging page histories

User:Coolcat moved the page on the Valkyrie and Norn Skuld to Skuld (Oh My Goddess!) some while ago and made Skuld into a disambiguation page. In accordance with the vote at Talk:Valkyrie, where a requested move by Coolcat was rejected, I have tried to restore the page Skuld as an article on the mythological Skuld. However, most of the edit history of the mythological Skuld is now at Skuld (Oh My Goddess!), and it should be moved to Skuld. I am not familiar with how to merge page histories and I wonder how to proceed.--Wiglaf 16:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There are two mythological Skulds aside from the anime character. There is a very serious need for a disambig there. --Cool Cat ^Talk 16:24, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As for the princess Skuld, she is quite obscure, and does not warrant Skuld to be a disambiguation page.--Wiglaf 16:29, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Wiglaf. When one of the Skulds is clearly more notable than the other, perhaps you can just provide a short disambig sentence on top of the article, like at Barak. If there are several disambig articles for the same subject, it's much better to just create a seperate disambiguationarticle, like at John Doe (which provides a link to John Doe (disambiguation)). --Death phoenix 16:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC) forgot to sign[reply]

Apparently, User:Phroziac agrees with Coolcat's old move. I have asked him for an explanation and reverted the move.--Wiglaf 17:22, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wells Fargo Center

There is a senseless revert war going on this article. There are apperantly two Wells Fargo Center buildings in two different states, hence prompting the page Wells Fargo Center be a disambig page. Thanks. --Cool Cat ^Talk 16:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That looks really senseless. Is one of them the Wells Fargo Center? Secret london 16:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, what about the ones in LA, Sacremento and Seattle? I think they just call all their buildings the Wells Fargo Center. Dragons flight 16:53, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Are they all notable? Secret london 17:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Not as far as I care. But if every high school in the world is notable, it wouldn't surprise me if someone wants to make that argument. Dragons flight 17:27, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

We've also got one here in Spokane, but the most notable thing about it is that the middle section of their lit sign on the top of the building was out for a few weeks, leaving a very large "WELL GO" quite visible from the northern half of the city. --Carnildo 20:03, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

On looking on the history of Wells Fargo Center, it looks like an anon did a cut and paste move to make room for the disambig. That needs to be reversed, the page moved, and a new disambig written. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:00, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have reversed the cut&paste move. I have not re-protected the page, as I assume that the "cut" part of the move was the reason for the reverts. Unfortunately, no-one has actually explained why they were reverting, so I cannot be sure about that; if the revert war starts again, someone should protect the page again. Eugene van der Pijll 17:55, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 638: / Line 638: @@
 :: Are they all notable? [[User:Secretlondon|Secret]][[User talk:Secretlondon|london]] 17:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 ::: Not as far as I care.  But if every high school in the world is notable, it wouldn't surprise me if someone wants to make that argument.  [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 17:27, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
+::We've also got one here in Spokane, but the most notable thing about it is that the middle section of their lit sign on the top of the building was out for a few weeks, leaving a very large "WELL GO" quite visible from the northern half of the city. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 20:03, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 : On looking on the history of [[Wells Fargo Center]], it looks like an anon did a cut and paste move to make room for the disambig. That needs to be reversed, the page moved, and a new disambig written. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter | Talk]] 17:00, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

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