User talk:Tiamut

(Inhale, deeply, smell the flower ... Exhale ...)

Lilies are often used to denote life or resurrection

Archive #1 by Werdnabot /Archive 2 /Archive 3 /Archive 4 /Archive 5 /Archive 6 /Archive 7 /Archive 8 /Archive 9

DYK for Place names in Palestine

On 18 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Place names in Palestine, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

~ User:Ameliorate! ^{(with the !) (talk)} 05:21, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Candy for a girl who has had her braids pulled!

I hope this will sweeten you day! Take care, Huldra (talk) 11:12, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

PS: Do you know anything about the photographer Fadil Saba from Nazareth? (Besides what is mentioned in the Karimeh Abbud article.) I have made a cat. for his photos (postcards) on the commons: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Fadil_Saba

Sweet Huldra. I love jellybeans! Thanks. :)

I have heard of Fadil Saba. His photography legacy is locally famous here. Will look for English sources to pass on to you and see what I can find in Arabic too. Good to hear from you again.

And thanks again for the candy. Tiamut^talk 11:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I have also seen older postcards by a "N. Saba, Nazareth", like this from 1899: [1] Perhaps a relative? And enjoy your candy, it is well deserved! Huldra (talk) 14:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I will ask some my elders here in Nazareth if Fadil had a brother he worked with (I recall someone mentioning something about that) to see if we can get a full name for this "N" initial. I tried to find English-language sources, but they are very few (one from the Palestine Exploration Fund which I can't access the full text of and a couple that refeence his photos only). So it looks like Arabic sources will be the main preserve of where information about him might be found. I'll see what I can do, and get back to with more, if I find it. Tiamut^talk 15:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

And same to you! Very pleasant editing with you, indeed! (..and I cannot say that about *all* editors that I meet in the ME-area... no need to mention names ;-D ) Have a nice evening..and I hope Al Almeer son is happy with the expansion of Nabi Rubin, Cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:13, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Q-D-S

On 18 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Q-D-S, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

17:31, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion

مـرحـبـا,

I'm so sorry to see you being plagued with this continuing nightmare. I do think Nishidani's advice simply to ignore him is the best course – which is more-or-less what I've been doing. Not so easy for you, though, if he keeps trampling all over your work.

I noticed that you mentioned J's latest action on Ryan's talk page, as his mentor Durova wasn't around. I just thought I should mention that Avi is also mentoring J (at my suggestion, and with Durova's agreement, and AFAIAA this is still the case) and that you could raise future problems with Avi, if you so wish. I believe J is more likely to heed Avi's wise advice than either of us, and I trust Avi's discretion on this.

تحياتي --NSH001 (talk) 22:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

PS. One of the few things my late father said about his experience as a Japanese PoW - he worked on the Burma Railway - was that the best way of dealing with the horrors was sometimes simply to laugh at them. (The memories were so horrific for him that he refused to talk about it, and we knew better than to ask, but very rarely something would trigger a remark.) Just a thought.

A Palestinian refugee from Lebanon] told me the same thing: "If we don't laugh, we die (figuratively speaking, as in the soul does)." Anyway, it's good food for thought. Thank you. Tiamut^talk 23:54, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Moses Montefiore Windmill

Re your edit, I'm not sure that it is necessary to actually give the source in the text when it is referenced anyway. The Middle East is not my area of expertise and I realise that how the various peoples are described may be a sensitive area. Also, attitudes in the 1930s were different to attitudes today. For that reason, I'm not going to revert the change you made. I will propose a new version of that paragraph and post it on the article talk page so that consensus may be obtained. Your comments would be welcome there. Mjroots (talk) 03:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Did you get my e-mail with the text from WCF's book? Mjroots (talk) 20:24, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I have replied on article's talk page re your proposed new paragraph. Mjroots (talk) 07:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Wow

That's beautiful stuff in there, Tiamut. Great work. I must start harassing you myself, if this is what you can achieve under stress!Nishidani (talk) 16:24, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Q-D-Š

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Q-D-Š, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

Not appropriate for English Wikipedia, as it is not about an English language concept.

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Editor2020 (talk) 23:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Nabi Shu'ayb

I just started Nabi Shu'ayb, but I did not research it much (mostly used the source you gave and a web page). You should add to it whenever your free. Maybe we could do a joint DYK nomination? Also, I will later ask Huldra for a(n) image(s) of the shrine or festivals held at the shrine. --Al Ameer son (talk) 01:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It'll be tough getting 4,000 more bytes, but we should definitely try. I will add a Demographics section that should be of decent size. I'll also look for more history of the village. Also, what do you think about mentioning Jethro taking refuge in Hittin in the article? --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Yea I forgot the time difference. Good night. --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:05, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I think you should go ahead and nominate it because I'm at school right now, and won't be back home for about 4 hours. Nice job expanding the article, as well Hittin. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

		Civility Award
		For managing to put across your frank views on the anecdotes relating to the Moses Montefiore Windmill without resorting to personal attacks and an edit war. Mjroots (talk) 12:29, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

November 2008

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on List of massacres during the 1948 Arab–Israeli war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Oo7565 (talk) 18:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

For the passerby, I was reverting the blanking of the entire page by an anon IP. Using bots to pass out these messages maybe? Tiamut^talk 22:30, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

al-Lajjun

Greetings Tiamut! I just started an article on al-Lajjun, but I got nothing on British Mandate times and the village's capture by Israel. Could you please help me start/expand those parts of the article. I asked Huldra to help too. Hell, this could be another joint-DYK and as I was telling Huldra, like Bayt Jibrin, maybe we could make this article a Good article. I'm already planning Geography and Archaeology sections. --Al Ameer son (talk) 07:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I don´t think there is anything wrong with the time-stamps (?) ..it is just that you, I and al Almeer son conduct a conversation over (at least) 3 user-talk-pages + (at least) 3 article-talk-pages + in all the edit-summaries...I have given up remembering what I read where ;- ) Anyway, take care, go to sleep, knowing you have done a good job. Cheers, and good night, Huldra (talk) 18:27, 21 November 2008 (UTC)(PS: did you get the Abulhawa-book? I sent it to the Nazareth-library before x-mas last year, and forgot to ask you)

Note re roots

Worried that there might be some intrusive political battle in the air, I sought of DBachmann's advice, on how to handle these pages, and he answered here [2]. Cripes, it would be a pity if all this fresh work were removed. Perhaps I shouldn't have asked. In any case, I thought you and the pages should be notified. Perhaps some measures can be thought out preemptively, in case this issue were to come up. Think about it. Sorry for the bother I may have inadvertently caused.Nishidani (talk) 15:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Phew, that's a relief! Apart from their intrinsic interest, we do need pages where a wikipedian can simply write to snuff, without the constant harassment of the usual contentious I/P kind, though on I/P issues. I'd like to edit, but am very busy, just sneaking about and intruding like a bad smell on one or two pages when I get the time. Like my mother of old, though, a pharmacist, am always on call, if I can be of help.Nishidani (talk) 17:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

A thought and a question

Sorry for intruding. I had a thought, after someone posted the Arabic equivalent (ar.Wikipedia) tag(?) for the 1973 oil crisis. The thought was, how connected are these articles, or are they totally different? Were they developed from a different, local consensus, or were they transliterated from .en.wiki. What differences are included; what gems in en.wiki’s have been hasbara’d to get or keep out? I’m not thinking about the bile and highly pov’d stuff, I’m looking for glaring ref-able holes related to the ‘real world’ and historic/political events and their aftermaths. Like these, [3], [4], [5], [6], for example. You had a question about the last one, which has been answered and helpful.

A question: Have these thoughts about ar.Wiki been discussed or noted before? Ana mabarf. Regards, CasualObserver'48 (talk) 04:36, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

None taken, and somehow it just doesn’t surprise me, but I am a cynic at times and places. It sounds like the modern era’s Shibboleth to me; what goes around, comes around. Let me think on it for a while, to see if I can find some probable candidates worth your work. How much of a sniff test can you do with just a quick read through, without written translation?

I am interested in creating something with the article that you had question about; it sure wouldn’t be easy, but it might lead to understanding…if not agreement. You might also be interested in this, which I bought while on my wiki-break. Regards,CasualObserver'48 (talk) 13:31, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Your DYK submission of Lajjun

Hello! Your submission of Lajjun at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed. There still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 08:03, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Your DYK submission of Hittin

Hello! Your submission of Hittin at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed. There still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 20:38, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Passing along the wikilove

--MPerel has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Cheers, and Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Israeli Apartheid Week

I picked this article up from wikiproject palestine's need to assure neutrality (it was quite simple to get it done really), but if you see the article now its come under dipute again. I am trying to tell the edit that his link may well be valid but it's wrong here, yet he insists on putting it here. Some of these hot-topic israel-Palestine issues are totally run by opinion here. I gave on allegation of zionist terror and, oddly, the holocaust article. but it has to stop somewhere.

ps- I created Indo-Palestinian relations. Should I put it on the wikiproject palestine page to get more updates? Although a map would be nice for this? Lihaas (talk) 04:19, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I am on the same page as you on this over-zealous editors. Only that sometimes it never dies down. But I'll monitor the page, I actually only found it from WP Palestine's list of NPOV articles (of which more could use such edits)

Thanks though. Lihaas (talk) 16:45, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK for K-B-D

On 23 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article K-B-D, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

19:11, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Tiamut. You have new messages at WT:DYK.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

DYK for Lajjun

On 24 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Lajjun, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 07:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Love you. I didn't answer right away because I am away, touring Egypt. --Ravpapa (talk) 19:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Hittin

On 24 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Hittin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 19:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Nabi Shu'ayb

On 26 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Nabi Shu'ayb, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 14:13, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Jericho

Great job expanding Jericho's history! Every few minutes I see a new improvement in the article on my watchlist. I'll try to find more on the Arab caliphate and Ottoman history, and as always, will add a Demographics section. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:54, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I added just a bit on it being a principal city in Jund Filastin, however le Strange's Palestine under the Moslems on page 396-397 contains a large quote by al-Muqaddasi as well as others by Yaqut al-Hamawi, Abu-l Fida, and Ali of Herat. I'm logging off right now, so go ahead and take anything useful from the quotes. --Al Ameer son (talk) 18:11, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and added some info. There's something interesting that Yaqut says: "The city is named after Ariha ibn Malik ibn Arfakshad ibn Sam ibn Nuh. I'm not sure if its true, so I didn't add it. --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Nazareth

You write: > Perhaps we could work on representing the differing opinions regarding the extent of the archaeological evidence? Your formulations seem to present Bagatti's work as confirmation of your thesis regarding a lack of settlement in the first century. Others seem to think differently, as evidenced above. All significant viewpoints should be represented to achieve NPOV. Tiamuttalk 16:27, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello Tiamut. The difficulty is that the "alternate" opinion (no Nazareth at the turn of the era) has long been suppressed, though it's been around for a very long time. It's found in scattered dictionary articles (going back to Encyclopedia Biblica, 1899), in the articles of Atheist Frank Zindler, and perhaps most substantially in my own recent book on the subject: THE MYTH OF NAZARETH: THE INVENTED TOWN OF JESUS (American Atheist Press,March 2008). See http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Nazareth-Invented-Town-Jesus/dp/1578840031/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206072072&sr=8-1 People should start citing this book soon. Since Wiki has a "no personal research" policy, I can only cite the work of others (such as H.P. Kuhnen). Incidentally, the book is available through my website at a discount: www.nazarethmyth.info. It is necessary reading for anyone who wishes to write about Nazareth history.

To respond to your remarks, I use Bagatti's work but do not accept his conclusions, which are tendentious. You should note this, as you have written Wiki articles on the Church of the Annunciation, etc. Other archaeologists (e.g., Israeli) have reviewed Bagatti's specific findings and have come to different conclusions. But their reports are scattered, obscure, and in various languages. I have collected all that data in THE MYTH OF NAZARETH. The result is a very new (and more correct) history of the settlement, one which contradicts the Gospel accounts of Jesus "of Nazareth." This point of view is now the subject of professional discussion among scholars (e.g., Amherst, N.Y. in two weeks).

I think that the Wiki article would benefit from having the extensive Chad Emmett material severely abbreviated or deleted. Emmett was not knowledgeable on Nazareth archaeology, and his views on the matter should not be cited.

In general, there is no NPOV possible. Rather, we have two mutually-exclusive positions presently articulated in scholarship, both of which should be represented in the article: (A) The majority opinion: a named village of Nazareth existed at the turn of the era in Lower Galilee; (B) The minority opinion: a named village of Nazareth in Lower Galilee came into existence between the two Jewish Wars (c. 70-130 CE). The minority opinion is gaining currency but is still very much "underground" as it were.

I have a suggestion that requires a wholesale rewrite of the article. If you agree that we delete (or drastically reduce) the Chad Emmett material, then I will agree to move the minority opinion (B) to the section "Contrary views regarding Jesus at Nazareth." However, there will still need to be full clarification of the actual archaeological facts (with references) in the section "Earliest History & archaeological evidence." I would be willing to draft an article and send it to you for preliminary "vetting" if you like. Renejs (talk) 20:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

rjs-at-epud.net

Kafr Lam

Hi, I think I´m finished adding to Kafr Lam, your turn now to ce and adding! (and thanks for starting the article!) Anyway, if your friends in Nazareth recieved a parcel from Sweden, it was not from me! (I´m based further west..) Anyway, take care, and I hope Kafr Lam makes a DYK, cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Hummus

Sorry Tiamut, but you reinserting that material into the Hummus article has pretty much rid me of any respect or GF that I had for your editing. You know full well that the material is being used to turn an article about a foodstuff into an attack article, and I'm quite shocked that you are willing to play along with it. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

TBH, talkpage discussions on this kind of issue are completely pointless because they just go in circles. I've been in them before with the likes of Jaakobou and PalestineRemembered and nothing good comes from them; the only thing that happens is that good editors are driven away from such topics because they are not as persistent and tenditious as the POV pushers. The fact that the material is reliably sourced is irrelevant, because the material is unwarranted and completely undue.

Any editor "working hard to include" that kind of material should be topic-banned on sight because they are doing nothing but poisoning the well. If someone wants to write about that kind of nonsense, then I'm sure there's an article out there about cultural wars in the Middle East. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I've already written to you on your talk page about your wholesale deletion of this reliably sourced material which three editors have voiced support for including on the talk page. If you lose good faith towards me simply because you disagree with my position (and that of two other editors) there could not have been much there to begin with. I'm quite shocked that you would unilaterally impose your own view onto a page without engaging in any form of discussion. And you accuse me of bad judgement? Please. There are right ways and wrong ways to approach a disagreement over content. You just exemplified the latter. Tiamut^talk 16:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

PS - I haven't lost faith in you because I disagree with your position, I've lost faith in you because you've clearly lost the ability to think in terms of NPOV. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Self-reflection anyone? Tiamut^talk 17:04, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Not self-reflection at all. You seem to have forgotten that I spoke out about pro-Israel bias in articles many times and pushed for the banning of several editors for such behaviour. However, there has been a shift in editing weight over the past 18 months; many of the pro-Israel lot (e.g. Tewfik, Humus sapiens, Isarig etc) have left, but there has not been an equal decline in the number of pro-Palestinian editors (whose number has possibly actually grown with the addition of the likes of Imad marie). I've certainly noticed that 18 months ago most articles had pro-Israel bias, whereas now it seems to be anti-Israel - before it was difficult to keep the Kach article in a state where it made it clear that it was a banned terrorist organisation - now that kind of stuff keeps creeping into the Likud article.

I'm sorry if I was overly harsh earlier, but I've recently been dealing with some unpleasant editors in Irish-related POV pushing (and actually temporarily retired from editing as I was getting so sick of national bias), but I am genuinely disappointed that you can't see that the Hummus article is very clearly an attack article with the inclusion of all that cultural theft stuff. пﮟოьεԻ 57 17:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

"cultural theft stuff"? Tiamut, I am not yet sure what Number 57 is referring to because I just took a look at the article after seeing something on AN/I. I think it is correct to follow what is said in sources according to WP:verify, but if there is a POV issue driving this, that would be disappointing. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 19:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi Tiamut! Thank you for your arguments in hummus debate. Wikipedia should include all relevent information if it can be found in mainstream publication and reflect different aspect of international view. Censoring one aspect of information, even if found disagreeable by some people, is dis service to world. i dont know why other people do not understand this. thanks. Ani medjool (talk)