Talk:Battle of Ankara

A historian, please take a look

There is a lot of room for expansion for this article. A historian should take a look.

This could be added: one of the reasons of the Ottoman defeat was that many "Bey's"(Turkish equivelant of Lord) that joined the battle on the Ottoman side defected because they sought independance from Ottoman rule. I read quite a few articles that said that the traditional idea that the Ottoman defeat was due to the use of Elephants by the forces of Timur is not very true, and that the Ottoman defeat could be accredited to political reasons.

War elephants were there and in a sense they were effective but we can't forget the powerful and fast Turkish horsemen. In my opinion, Bayezid I lost the battle because of Timur's tactics. Timur made the Ottoman force tired before the start of the battle. With respect, Deliogul 14:35, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Well its a combo of all of those. His army was tired, thirsty, forced onto the offensive against elephants, many of his soldiers defecting. There couldn't be a better disaster. Tourskin 21:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The strength of the armies

'Forces' section contradicts the reference used for the strength of the armies; "The size of the two armies are reliably estimated at 140,000 on Timur's side and no more than 85,000 under Sultan Bayezid I." (David Nicolle, Armies of the Ottoman Turks, see notes), and the 'source' given in this section should be moved to the external links. Lysandros 17:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I do not understand why you marked he even counted a few Indian war elephants amongst his numbers as dubious? If you have some other sources denying it or explaining it better - please, add it to this section about forces of both sides. It is quite possible for Timur to have the elephants that time - due to his successful campain in India preceeding this battle.--BarryMar 18:34, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

A little mistake, the statement that i find dubious is; "While Bayezid's army was approximately equal to Timur's..." because it contradicts the reference that i provided. Lysandros 03:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Do not see why my might be dubious if it disagrees to your reference?! What makes your reference more reliable? You are always welcome to point at another reference and, however, to show us why your reference is more reliable.--BarryMar 02:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

"The decisive battle finally took place at the plain of Çubuk, outside Ankara, on July 27, 1402. The sources vary widely as to the size of the two armies, but all agree that Tamerlane's force was larger." Stanford J. Shaw & Ezel Kural Shaw, History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey, Cambridge University Press (page 35). Lysandros 05:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Me?

I have a reliable source; Battle, by R.G. Grant, which stated that Bayezid and Timur's army wearing marching towards each other, missed each other. Then, Bayezid was forced to turn back his army. When it found Timur's army, it was blocking the path to the nearest water source. Therefore, Bayezid's army was forced on to the offensive to reach the water source since his army was tired and thristy. He failed to break through and a Timur counter attack won the day for Timur. 86.136.28.42 23:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I added the fact that Bayezid escaped temporarliy with a few thousand hundred horsemen, before being captured. Tourskin 04:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

name of turkish commander

it's aba yazeed, meaning father of yazeed; not beyazid, what does that mean anyway? 213.42.21.156 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 00:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

In Turkish the Ottoman Sultan is known as Beyazid Yildirim (Thunderbolt), Aba Yazeed is probably Arabic.--Lettersound (talk) 03:25, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Date

Why do some people give July 28 as the date of the battle? -- Tseno Maximov 19:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

False reference

The reference as given

Bury, John Bagnell, The Cambridge medieval history, (Camb. Univ. Press, 1923), 562

is non-existent. However there is

The Cambridge Medieval History, Volume IV, The Eastern Roman empire (717- 1453) by J. R. (Joseph Robson); Previté-Orton, Charles William; Brooke, Z. N. (Zachary Nugent), eds.; planned by J. B. Bury (John Bagnell) Tanner (Author); Macmillan (1923)

This book does not support the text where it shall be attached to (instead the non-existent one).

--138.88.103.233 (talk) 00:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I think you should tread very carefully. I do not use false references. Considering you first remark was political propaganda", your continued insulting tone won't last here!!

http://books.google.com/books?q=The+Cambridge+medieval+history+Bury --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

• Yes, you do use false reference. What you have offered here is a list of books coming from the Google search engine. Neither of them is: Bury, John Bagnell, The Cambridge medieval history, (Camb. Univ. Press, 1923), nor such book ever existed.

As to the 'political propaganda' - it is my qualification of the Anzulovic's book, not an insult thrown at you!--138.88.103.233 (talk) 01:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)