Talk:The Wiggles

Image improvement drive

One of the biggest weaknesses of this article (and other Wiggles-related articles) has been the images. I think that in the last couple of days, I've been able to accomplish much to remedy this situation, thanks to the donation of some pictures taken at concerts over the summer. I'm much happier with the images currently on this article, but it's not perfect--not yet. Below is my Wiggles image wishlist. Please add to it if you think of others.

• Big Red Car, with all four current members clearly shown, to replace the current infobox image. I like the idea of this depiction of The Guys in their infobox, but I'd like a clearer and better-quality image than the current one.

• Greg Page. For his bio article as well.

• "Finger-waving move". This has been a long-standing wish. I want this pose, but with all four guys. (I'm certain that the current image was taken when Anthony had the flu and had bowed out of the meet-and-greets, because that's exactly what happened when we attended the Spokane, WA concert in July.)

--Christine (talk) 18:55, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Since working on this article's images as described above, some additional frustrations occurred, mostly due to my ineptitude with images. It's my intention to address the issues that arose in the coming days. --Christine (talk) 05:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Discrepancies

I have found yet another possible discrepancy in this article. There seems to have a been a number of them, and as I've been able to find them, I've corrected them. The most recent one has to do with Greg Page's role in The Wiggles. The newest source, an article from CNN [1], states that Greg was a roadie for The Cockroaches, that Anthony and Murray met at Macquarie while training to become teachers. It also seems to suggest that they were teachers, not Greg. The 2006 New York Times article [2] referenced in this article suggests that Greg was also a teacher, and that he met the other two at uni. That concerns me a bit, because to be frank, there has been many "facts" in the NYT article that have turned out to be plain wrong. I don't think the CNN article is clear enough to make any changes, though, and it may be incorrect about this as well. So if anyone finds any evidence regarding this issue, please bring it to our attention.

So the question that arises here, to summarize, is: Is Greg a teacher? Did he attend Macquarie to gain his early ed training? When exactly did he meet the other guys? Any help to clear up this discrepancy would be greatly appreciated. --Christine (talk) 06:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Recent deletion of Awards and nominations section

Performances artists generally have a section on their awards and nominations (or a link to an article with this information). Thus, I recently started such a section for the Wiggles and began with their 2007 APRA Award wins. I supplied two references for the material I added.

However the whole section was deleted/reverted with the following explanation (tranferred from my talkpage):

== [[The Wiggles]] ==

Hi, you might have noticed that I reverted your edit. I did it because the information was elsewhere in the article, and because the source you used isn't really appropriate. It's just the link to the APRA webpage, and says nothing about the actual award. The kicker part about it is, though, while I was in the middle of the revert, I literally had an edit conflict with an anonymous IP vandalizing the article again--and it was about poor Greg! Anyway, wanted to explain. --Christine (talk) 03:00, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

My edit was:

==Awards and nominations== ===APRA-AGSC Awards=== The annual [[APRA Awards|Screen Music Awards]] are presented by [[Australasian Performing Right Association]] (APRA) and Australian Guild of Screen Composers (AGSC) for television and film scores and soundtracks.<ref name="APRAScreen"/> {{Awards table}} |- |rowspan="2"| [[APRA Awards of 2007|2007]] || The Wiggles: [[Murray Cook]], [[Jeff Fatt]] , [[Anthony Field]], John Field, [[Greg Page (musician)|Greg Page]] || International Achievement Award<small><ref name="SMAWin2007"/></small> || {{won}} |- | Cook, Fatt, Anthony Field, John Field, Page || Most Performed Screen Composer - Overseas<small><ref name="SMAWin2007"/></small> || {{won}} {{end}}

With the following references added in the specific section:

<ref name="APRAScreen">{{cite web | url = http://www.apra-amcos.com.au/APRAAwards/ScreenAwards.aspx | title = Screen Awards | publisher = [[Australasian Performing Right Association]] (APRA) | accessdate = 28 April 2010 }}</ref> <ref name="SMAWin2007">{{cite web | url = http://www.apra-amcos.com.au/APRAAwards/ScreenAwards/History/2007Winners.aspx | title = 2007 Winners - Screen Music Awards | publisher = Australasian Performing Right Association (APRA) | accessdate = 2 May 2010 }}</ref>

Which is rendered as:

Awards and nominations

APRA-AGSC Awards

The annual Screen Music Awards are presented by Australasian Performing Right Association (APRA) and Australian Guild of Screen Composers (AGSC) for television and film scores and soundtracks.

Year	Nominee / work	Award	Result
2007	The Wiggles: Murray Cook, Jeff Fatt , Anthony Field, John Field, Greg Page	International Achievement Award	Won
	Cook, Fatt, Anthony Field, John Field, Page	Most Performed Screen Composer - Overseas	Won

References

Christine makes some claims in the statement above which I dispute:

Which, if you don't mind, I will respond to:

1. reverted [...] because the information was elsewhere in the article"

The purpose of this section is to make it easier to find these awards & noms and not have to wade through so much text. It is unlikely that the article will specifically mention all of their awards and noms. This will be especially true when the whole list of awards and noms is formed: at some point editors may want to create a separate article from this section. One has to start somewhere and so I started with 2007 APRA Awards. The article currently states They won APRA song writing awards for Best Children's Song three times but does not specify when these awards occurred nor does the article show the APRA awards from 2007 that I had included above.

This is a featured article. Adding content that's half-finished decreases its quality. Perhaps a better way is to start the list in a sandbox, and when you complete it, you could add it. The WP MOS recommends that when possible, prose is a better choice than an embedded list. As a matter of fact, an old version of this article had a section, "Honours", but it was suggested way back in a peer review to make it into prose. The reason why the sentence you cite above isn't specific is that there were no reliable sources we found that stated them. It looks like you found it, so the information needs to be included. I will add it in the next day or so, I promise.

As indicated, I have no current intention of creating a List of awards and nominations received by The Wiggles page but felt that it was remiss of a Featured article on a performance artist to not include, at least, a wikilink to such an article or to ignore such important awards. Further work is sorely needed on both the prose and referencing of the existing descriptions of their APRAs and ARIAs.

2. because the source you used isn't really appropriate

In what way is APRA not an appropriate source for information on its awardees? Check footnote 7 where ARIA supplies information on its awardees: is this likewise not an appropriate source?

3. It's just the link to the APRA webpage, and says nothing about the actual award

The first source directs the reader to a greater description of the Screen Music Awards which are mentioned in the lead-in to the results table. This clearly describes what the awards are given for and by whom: they were awarded by APRA in conjunction with AGSC in November 2007.

The second source verifies what exactly the Wiggles actually won. 'International Achievement Award' and 'Most Performed Screen Composer - Overseas' for its members.

Taken together the two sources clearly indicate what awards were won, which organizations presented the Screen Music Awards and when it occurred.

Note: neither of these two APRA wins was for 'Best Children's Song'. Furthermore the current article's claim that the Wiggles won these awards is supported by the Wiggles website: is this an independent source?

Sorry, I misspoke. I think that the APRA webpage as a source for its awards is appropriate. I have no problem with the second reference, the actual list of winners. However, the first source is unnecessary. All that's required is a link to APRA's WP article, which I assume will have their webpage linked. Currently, it feels like an advertisement for APRA, which as I'm sure you're aware, WP is not. Again, we need to change the content in the prose. To answer your second question, APRA is the more reliable source, I believe, so the article should be edited to reflect it.

You'll need better references for the APRA wins for 'Best Children's Song': including the category titles as 'Childrens Composition of the Year' in 1994 for "Hot Potato" (see here) and 'Most Performed Children's Work' in 1996 for "Wake Up Jeff" (here). Note: I have not checked all of APRA's history for their other nominations/wins.

As for advertising APRA, I dispute your claim, the lead-in sentence describes the award giving bodies and the Screen Music Awards very briefly. The first reference supports this description as well as giving more details of the awarding process. In any case, if you're not using the awards table format/an embedded list then this Lead-in is not required and so this point is moot.

It is my contention that APRA is the appropriate source for information on APRA awards. Just the same as ARIA being the appropriate source for ARIA awards. Until a separate page is created for all their Awards and nominations I believe the above information should be returned to the article. At some point in the future a separate List of awards and nominations received by The Wiggles page can be created with a link left in the main article.--shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:41, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

If you want to create such an article, go right ahead. There are other lists associated with it. The standard practice is to create a section summarizing the honours in prose, so I'm not opposed to that. However, I oppose placing an embedded list in this article, for the reasons I described above. Thanks for your input, though; you found some missing but valuable information we can add to the article. --Christine (talk) 16:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll leave the creation of such an awards page for others: I was surprised that such a notable performance group did not already have one. While talking awards, why does note 7 only list four of The Wiggles nine ARIA wins? Why does the main text neglect the fact that The Wiggles are notable for winning and being nominated in the same category for the most times?

The main text claims In 2003, they received ARIA's Outstanding Achievement Award for their success in the US. but see here and here. ARIA seems to have left The Wiggles winning of the 2003 'Outstanding Achievement Award' from their summary lists! However, see text introduction to their 2003 list here. See also here where Andrew Denton is quoted when presenting the award to The Wiggles. These refs would be better than using The Wiggles own page to verify their award win. Also this award was for their early work (including as The Cockroaches) as well as their international success (not just US). With this added they have won nine ARIAs not eight! Hope I've helped rather than hindered.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:56, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree with everything you've said, especially regarding The Wiggles being "a notable performance group". I'm just not used to that description being used in reference to The Guys in Wikipedia, the place it took four nominations before their article became FA! ;) I appreciate the references; they weren't included because I didn't know about 'em. That's what's great about WP, doncha know--where I fall short, other editors come around and fill in. The important thing is that this article is deserving of The Wiggles. So thanks again; I'll include the content in the next few days, if not before. --Christine (talk) 22:57, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Still pending?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Been a little busy; will take care of this in the next few days, I promise. Christine (talk) 04:49, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Early career - Non-contact of children

The reference to not touching children could probably do with a little clarification. Either that this rule was only enforced at the beginning of their careers, or it is only for official photo shoots. I was just watching Live Hot Potatoes with my daughter and at around the 20m 30s range, one of them is holding the shoulder of a boy in the audience. Not in any way does this look inappropriate, I just remembered reading this section yesterday, and thought it could do with re-writing/clarifying. No idea how to rewrite the sentence, or if people would consider this important enough to alter. --AntiSceptic (talk) 09:38, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Anti, thanks for the input. I've noticed the same kind of thing myself. However, the information about this policy is well-sourced, and to change it based upon our observations of concerts and DVDs, I think, constitutes original research, something that's frowned upon in Wikipedia. Plus, it's a quote from Paul Paddick, who should know. That being said, though, I've found that many of the MSM articles written about The Guys through the years have been notoriously inaccurate. They need to do an interview correcting all the factual errors, gotten through reliable, third-party sources as required by Wikipedia, in their article. Next time you talk to Anthony Field, could you ask him to do that? ;) Anyway, thanks. BTW, please make sure that you put new conversations at the end of a talk page; it's easier to find that way. And it's convention here to only capitalize the first word in a heading. Christine (talk) 14:12, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the guidance. I'll try and remember how to add to talk pages correctly in the future, and I hadn't considered the issue of Original Research. AntiSceptic (talk) 09:03, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

JB

I have a question is JB a character on the Wiggles. --MikeySalinas17 (talk) 21:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, JB is a character specific to the Wiggly Waffle. Whether JB will make it into future Wiggles videos is uncertain; JB was not featured in Let's Eat, even though that had the Wiggly Waffle day of the week skits. Perhaps someone can add JB's involvement in Wiggly Waffle? AngusWOOF (talk) 21:04, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Wiggly Old School

I think there's gonna be a new Wiggles 20th birthday DVD called "Wiggly Old School". I made a picture of the front cover myself. --Daniel (talk) 20:25, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

no Daniel threre is not going to be a DVD by that name Jena (talk) 23:28, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're right, Jena. By the way, there's no such as a new DVD by any name. --Daniel (talk) 17:26, 1 September 2011 (UTC)