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March 5

Rock star whims

Why Hollywood and rock stars tend to have weird whims? example. Is it because people get more pedantic when they realize they can get away with wathever they ask? Is it a marketing strategy? Is it to appear with a extravagance halo? (as an aside note, I'm a bit surprised there is no whim (psychology) article)--85.55.220.40 (talk) 00:36, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

One theory I heard once is that it's actually a way of measuring the amount of detail that the people providing the amenities put into their job. I.e., if they M&Ms have been purged of the yellow ones, then you can be sure that the sheets are being changed and the bathrooms kept clean, etc. Evanh2008 (talk) (contribs) 03:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Not necessarily, if they're spending all their time searching the M&Ms. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Confirmed by David Lee Roth in his autobiography (Snopes article). -- BenRG (talk) 06:53, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd say it's their way of showing they are the boss. While this can happen with anyone rich and/or famous, it's probably more common in those who achieve fame and fortune early, without learning to be humble first. Rock/pop/rap stars, sports stars, and actors can fall into this category. But then again, Donald Trump seems to have managed to become quite a jerk, even though he inherited his money and/or made his money in real estate. StuRat (talk) 03:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Richard Stallman of free software fame has some pretty specific instructions for people who want to invite him to speak, see here. In some cases famous people clearly do it just because they can get away with it (the Bob Hope impersonators and all that), but on the other hand, life on the road is tiresome. People have drunk themselves to death staving off the homesickness. And it's no fun having to tell kind strangers that their thoughtful attempts at making you comfortable are actually making you uncomfortable, when instead of a five-star hotel all you want is to sleep on someone's couch or instead of champagne you just want Haribo brand gummi bears. Actually, now that I mentioned that, particular brands of candy seem to figure pretty often on these lists - comfort snacks, obviously.--Rallette (talk) 07:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

What do you expect? Picture this scenario. A rather ordinary-looking guy with a modicum of talent as a singer, drummer, guitarist, whatever, finds himself a clever manager who lands him a record contract. He gets lucky and he/his band sell lots and lots of records. The power trip naturally comes as a resuly of people constantly kissing his ass, groupies kissing other parts of his anatomy, kids telling him they have all his records, journalists asking him his opinion on world affairs, even if he has never opened a book in his life...obviously at some stage he's going to believe he's a modern King Louis XIV.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Stallman's demands, by the way, are so lovably and understandably sincere and specific. He's not particularly demanding, but he's very exacting. 68.190.231.128 (talk) 20:13, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Most of the requests on those lists tend to be more or less reasonable. The exceptions are often understandable. Mary J. Blige wants a brand-new toilet seat in her dressing room. Heck, why not? If I was a pop star, why not take advantage of the fact to ensure I can sit on a toilet seat that's never been infected with germs? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:43, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

A truly discerning person prefers used toilet seats for their residual warmth. Bus stop (talk) 03:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Of course someone who can demand a new toilet seat wherever they go can also demand a heated toilet seat.... Nil Einne (talk) 15:02, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

There's far more germs on a damn door knob than on most toilet seats. People fuss self-importantly about the most ridiculously trivial things, and ignore the elephants in the room. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:16, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Do rock stars ever demand elephants? AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:23, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Contemporary erotic painting

Hello, if anyone knowledgeable about this subject please reply. I want to know the name of notable painters associated with erotic painting in contemporary art (i.e. 1950s onwards). Some notable contemporary erotic painters I know are Cecily Brown and John Currin. Some other notable names (excluding pin-up artists and comic book artists) who's themes in painting include modern settings such as striper, nightclubs etc? --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 03:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Mel Ramos, John Kacere, Hilo Chen, Hubert De Lartigue, Jock Sturges, John De Andrea (sculptor). I found all of those names at this gallery's web site. We have an article on one of the owners of that gallery, Louis K. Meisel. Tom Wesselmann. Bus stop (talk) 03:45, 5 March 2012 (UTC) Bus stop (talk) 03:19, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

IIRC, some of Eric Fischl's stuff is quite racey. Alansplodge (talk) 11:25, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Balthus? Bus stop (talk) 11:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Beryl Cook? More comical than erotic, but certainly often set in strip clubs, nightclubs etc. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:41, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the links! --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 14:42, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

No one mentioned Jeff Koons' Made in Heaven series featuring his then wife Ilona Staller. Astronaut (talk) 17:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

What was the ideology of the Republican Party in the South after Reconstruction 1877-1928?

It seems like most histories of electoral politics in the South end the Republican narrative in 1877 with the end of Reconstruction and don't pick up again until 1928 when the Solid South began to crack. I was wondering what was the status of the Republican party between 1877-1928? I realize that the South was effectively 1-party during that period and that the Republicans were a hopeless minority. I was wondering if there was any organizational Republican structure in the South (especially the Deep South) at all during this time? Was the racial makeup all-white? What was the ideology of the Republican Party in the south and how did it differ with that in the North? Was the Southern Republican party to the left or right of the Northern Republicans and Democrats? --Gary123 (talk) 04:02, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

There's a lot of articles e.g. Scalawag and Carpetbagger with small bits of information on Republicans in the south. The Republicans had strong support in parts of the former Confederacy, e.g. in Appalachia where there were fewer former slave owners, but not so much in the Deep South. In Georgia the Georgia Republican Party briefly held power after the war, with the support of blacks and those from the mountainous north and west. In South Carolina the situation was somewhat similar, with Republicans holding power thanks to freed slaves and carpetbaggers; see South Carolina Republican Party. In the South, the Republicans were sometimes in alliance with the radical anti-corporate Populist Party (United States), particularly pre-1900 when the Democrats were more pro-business. It's a long period with complex issues; you could explore the articles on the individual states' Republican parties, though these are of varying quality. --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

During that time period, especially in the early part of it (say, last 3 decades of the 19th century), the Republican Party had almost no presence in the south. In many places, Democrats ran unopposed in local elections. During the latter half of the 19th century, the Republican Party, nationally, had two main sources of support: Large, corporate support from industrialists and abolitionists. Neither were very welcome in the south. The Solid South article sadly doesn't discuss the time period as much as it discusses the fall of the "Solid South", but basically the local Republican Party all but disappeared from the South (except for, as noted, some pockets in Appalachia) for many years. --Jayron32 23:17, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

During the the Nadir of American race relations, Southern Republicans often turned their back on blacks -- see Lily-White Movement. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

In my readings on McKinley and Hanna, I've learned that blacks were a large part of the Republican Party in the South. Even where they couldn't vote. There was considerable competition to be a delegate to the national convention, which was in the 19th century generally 2 delegates for each of a state's electoral votes, even though Republicans in the South rarely won them. The reason for this was, if you helped elect the winning candidate, you might get civil service patronage. You might want to review William McKinley#Civil rights and the sources supporting.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:43, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, it is not quite true that the Republicans won nothing in the South. They took a congressional seat or governor's mansion now and then, and even had some success in the early 1890s with fusion tickets with the Populists. Republicans won a handful of Southern seats, in an arc from Virginia to Texas, in 1894, though nothing in the Deep South.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

That "arc" you describe is basically Appalachia and the Ozarks, which was already noted as the one place that the Republican party survived in the South; Hillbilly politics always worked very differently than it did in the deep south, --Jayron32 20:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The supplanting of the Republican Party in the South was, as I understand it, a slow process with many stops and starts. There was always a tension, similar to one that lasted into the 1970's, between Republicans who wanted to keep or restore their traditional alliance, sealed in a bloody conflict, with Afro-Americans (who still voted in the North as their votes were being taken away in the South) and those who saw a natural conservative affinity with the upper and middle classes of white Southern society. Among the books I've found useful in trying to understand the conundrum are Stanley P. Hirshson's Farewell to the Bloody Shirt: Northern Republicans and the Southern Negro, 1877-1893 (Indiana 1962), Dewey W. Grantham's The Democratic South (Norton 1965; a lecture series), George Brown Tindall's The Disruption of the Solid South (Norton 1972; a parallel lecture series focused mainly on the mid-20th century but with very useful insights on the 19th), Eric Foner's Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution, 1863-1877 (Harper 1988; a massive work whose last two chapters do pursue what happened after 1877) and C. Vann Woodward's The Strange Career of Jim Crow (Oxford 1955, 1957, 1965, 1974, a classic short work based on yet another lecture series). I've seen but never read another C. Vann Woodward standard classic, The Origins of the New South, 1877-1913, Volume 9 in Louisiana State University Press's History of the South (LSU, 1951, 1968, 1971). Some insight could also be gained by studying the post-Reconstruction careers of the first two black U.S. Senators (both Mississippi Republicans), Hiram R. Revels (1827-1901) and Blanche K. Bruce (1841-1898). There's also useful material in Kevin Phillips' The Emerging Republican Majority (Arlington House 1969, Doubleday 1970) and E.E. Schattschneider's The Semisovereign People: a realist's view of democracy in America (Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1960, 1965 reprinted 1975 by Dryden Press). The latter points out that many Southerners still voted Republican in presidential elections (for example 37% of Georgia's vote went to McKinley in 1896; other statistics in Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections). The one concrete detail I remember about Southern Republican parties between Hayes and Nixon is that some of them had no interest in growing; the fewer members the less competition for local Federal jobs in (for example) the Post Office and customs whenever Northern Republicans succeeded in electing a GOP president, which they did for all but 16 years from 1860 to 1932. These small state parties still sent delegations to Republican National Conventions but could be easily influenced (in the manner of pocket boroughs in British parliaments) to support an establishment candidate, such as William Howard Taft in 1912. Their authenticity was also a question in the 1952 nomination battle between Robert Taft and Dwight D. Eisenhower. —— Shakescene (talk) 11:02, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

West-gate of Moria

Why does the inscription on the arch of the West-gate refer to Khazad-dûm as "Moria"? The inscription was written in the Second Age, but the city was only renamed "Moria" in the Third Age. Double sharp (talk) 09:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

An inconsistency or mistake on Tolkien's part, at least according to http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Doors_of_Durin Pfly (talk) 10:09, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Incident in early Islam

On the Entertainment desk there was a question about movies taking place during the First Fitna, which reminded me of a movie I was watching about an incident in the very early history of Islam, where a local Christian ruler attacked the Muslims, possibly after pretending to form an alliance with them first. It was while they were still in Arabia, so it wasn't a Byzantine or Abyssinian ruler. While I was watching the movie I remember looking up the details on Wikipedia, but this was about a year ago and I can't remember anything about it anymore. Was this actually an historical event or am I just misremembering everything? Adam Bishop (talk) 09:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

The only movie you may have seen 'about an incident in the very early history of Islam' is probably this film, but I have seen it many years ago and cannot remember its details. --Omidinist (talk) 17:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I have seen that, but this one was in Arabic (with badly translated subtitles). I was actually watching it on a Saudi Arabian satellite channel. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

"The cry was no surrender" - The Siege of Derry

Disclaimer: I have (to my knowledge) neither English nor Irish background. But I find the history intriguing anyways.

A few questions about the Siege which our article doesn't seem to answer:

1. Did King James ride up to Bishop's gate in person to ask the city to surrender? Was this common practice for His Majesty alone to personally take such an action? He's the king - how would he take this risk upon himself?! He was lucky the defenders didn't succeed in killing him when they fired at him!

2. The city's decision not to surrender was no doubt brave - but to what end? Was it just patriotism (religious or secular)? Or were the inhabitants fearful of being dispossessed or slaughtered if they surrendered? Did King James have a reputation of cruelty towards those who surrendered to his forces?

3. If King James had prevailed, would it have likely made any difference to the ultimate outcome of the Williamite War in Ireland? (A "what if" question, I know). Our article says nothing about any effects of the failure of the Siege of Derry on the wider campaign.

4. Why didn't the Jacobite forces make greater efforts to secure (i.e. clog up) the river-head? The Royal Navy's tactic of forcing the way up-river would have been obvious, wouldn't it? Compare to the Defence of Fort McHenry, where the defenders clogged the river by sinking ships. Couldn't the Jacobite forces have placed better impediments to a naval force than a flimsy floating boom, easily dismantled by properly-equipped combat engineers? 203.214.66.250 (talk) 11:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

• Question 1: Yes, at least according to the rather florid Protestant accounts. Quoted from a speech to mark the 150th 138th anniversary in 1826: "...the Monarch... who came down attended by a numerous retinue, to the brook in this side of Foyle Hill, within 300 yards of Bishop's Gate. He thought his royal presence would awe the garrison, surrounded by monks and Jesuits; he thought that he had nothing to do but hold up the beads and the ropes and that Derry's gates would fly open at their touch... after giving an astounding shout of "No surrender!", the beads were answered with a shower of 18-pounders". It goes on to say that one of the King's aides-de-camp was killed by a shot from Roaring Meg. These were big (for the time) seige guns and hitting any particular person with one would have been a very lucky shot indeed. 300 yards was well outside of accurate musket range (only 50 to 75 yards).
• Question 2: see Bloody Assizes, Judge Jeffreys and Jack Ketch, all of which are still bywords in England for merciless judicial barbarity. See also Alice Lisle (aged 68), who was convicted of harbouring fugitives from the Battle of Sedgemoor and was sentenced to be burned alive (although this was commuted to beheading). Alansplodge (talk) 16:53, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
• Question 3: See What if James had won the seige? for an opinion by Richard Doherty.
• Question 4: The boom was constructed by a clever French naval officer called Bernard Desjean, Baron de Pointis. France led the world in the art of military engineering in the reign of Louis XIV (you may have heard of Vauban) and I expect that they trusted their expert. To be fair, it did prevent Percy Kirke's squadron from entering Derry and left it hanging around in Lough Foyle for more than a month. The assault itself wasn't easy; the Mountjoy bounced off the boom and ran aground; she only avoided capture because she was refloated by the recoil of her guns. It may also have crossed the Jacobite's minds that if they won, they would have needed the city to start trading again fairly quickly - not really possible if you've blocked the river without any means of unblocking it afterwards. Alansplodge (talk) 17:04, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I finally found a Jacobite narrative of the Seige of Derry. In respect of your Question 4:"the said town could not be relieved with provisions but by a straight branch of the sea, which was not deep enough to bear a middling vessel at the ebb of the tide. By this we see the taking of the town depended on the stopping of a single ship from coming up the river, which was an easy task; for the work would be infallibly done by sinking across the channel a gabbard or two, which medium was proposed to general Hamilton in process of the siege, when three ships came into the river with corn for the king's army. But the general answered he would not have that done, because it would afterwards spoil the commerce of Londonderry, and thereby lessen the royal revenue. It is said that he had for his prohibition the king's authority." (pp. 65-66)

Further on, the author examines the failure of the seige: "...it is not so easy to understand how came this ship to pass scot-free by so many batteries, and yet in four or five weeks before, three vessels attempting the same fact were repulsed. The king's soldiers answer that the gunners of the batteries, or some of them, were this morning, the thirty-first of July, drunk with brandy, which caused them to shoot at random." The author goes on to speculate that the brandy might have been paid for by the English. He continues: "In the interim those gunners lost Ireland through their neglect of duty... However, some will excuse them, and say that their guns were so small and so few that they could not sink a ship in the passage. This makes me reflect on the best advice that was given in this business, which was that a bark or two should be sunk in the channel, and this infallibly would have done the feat and saved the kingdom, for no carelessness or treachery could there have place." (p. 84) So there you have it. Alansplodge (talk) 11:45, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

(From the OP - different computer) Thanks so much for your well-researched answer. It is intriguing. King James (accompanied by his retinue of monks and Jesuits): "Open up these gates in the name of the Catholic version of Jesus!" I suspect that speech has some heavy propaganda-influence. Likewise the Jocabite idea of the Williamites secretly furnishing the gunners with brandy to sabotage them. Both could, of course, be true in theory. Thanks again. 203.45.95.236 (talk) 14:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

You're very welcome. I only had a sketchy view of events before I started digging around, so we've both learned something. I may revise the article at a later date. Of course, King James could have said anything, because nobody could have heard him 300 yards away, no matter how loud his voice was. I expect that he had a lacky to do the shouting for him. Alansplodge (talk) 19:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Numbering systems in the West?

Before the adoption of the Arabic numerals, what was the numbering system most commonly used in the West?200.119.78.251 (talk) 13:00, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Roman numerals. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

And the abacus was used to do calculations.
Sleigh (talk) 03:06, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Death penalty in Texas

How many innocents have been killed by the state of Texas? --Broadside Perceptor (talk) 16:23, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Before someone steps in to criticise the question, let me reformulate it for the OP's benefit. How many people have been executed in Texas for crimes which it has subsequently been proven they did not commit? --Viennese Waltz 16:33, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

We are not allowed to speculate, so our response will necessarily omit people who were innocent but whose innocence was never proven. Marco polo (talk) 16:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

A core problem in answering your question is that virtually all parties have a much stronger interest in overturning capital sentences prior to execution than afterwards. However, our wrongful execution article references this Executed but Possibly Innocent page from the Death Penalty Info Center, which lists 6 contemporary Texas executions. Likely no meaningful data exists for the historical record. We also have an article on capital punishment in Texas, and estimates could probably be made by projecting the rate of overturned convictions in recent years onto the number of executions in prior years (note that you can't as readily project onto contemporary executions as [some] improper convictions are already stripped out of that data set). — Lomn 16:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

List of exonerated death row inmates lists zero people anywhere in the US who were executed since 1970 and then later exonerated. Staecker (talk) 23:27, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

As far as people who we are 100% sure must be innocent of any crime, probably none. However, there are many for which we aren't 100% certain they were guilty of the crime for which they were executed (and many of these are a matter of degree, such as if they did commit the murder, but it wasn't premeditated). StuRat (talk) 00:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

As the Death Penalty Info Center site Lomn refers to says: "Courts do not generally entertain claims of innocence when the defendant is dead." So the non-exoneration of the executed in the USA is a matter of the logic of the law, not of the non-existence of innocent people executed.Cameron Todd Willingham was executed for murder in Texas, where the weight of subsequent expert opinion is that no murder was committed at all.John Z (talk) 02:48, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

More cautiously, one might characterize expert opinion as declining to find convincing evidence of arson. Subsequent investigators have said that the reasoning of the original investigator was, basically, nonsense. I have not, however, heard any of them say "if this had been arson, we would have seen such and such, and we didn't".

It is hard to imagine that Willingham could possibly be convicted in a trial informed by current expert opinion. That is not the same as to say he was innocent. Personally I can't come to a conclusion on that either way.

There is no individual case, at least in the post-Furman era, where a person was executed by Texas and it subsequently became entirely clear that that person had been innocent. But there are enough cases where it seemed dubious that it seems almost a statistical certainty that some of them have been innocent. --Trovatore (talk) 02:58, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

"There's nothing to suggest to any reasonable arson investigator that this was an arson fire. It was just a fire." quoted in our article is quite strong. Would a cautious expert make a stronger negative statement about any fire? Being able to say "if this had been arson, we would have seen such and such, and we didn't" is an impossibly hard standard to meet. John Z (talk) 05:53, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

While the arson may not have been as was presented in the trial, Willingham's bizarre behavior, like trying to save his car while his kids were burning to death, makes it hard for me to imagine him to be innocent. However, others with similar bizarre behaviors, like Casey Anthony, who felt the need to duct tape her daughter's mouth and dump her in the woods, didn't seem to be enough to convict them of murder. When the direct evidence of murder is weak, juries seem divided on convicting based on behavior alone. StuRat (talk) 05:57, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

That's extremely weak evidence. The fact he may have been a disgusting person who didn't give a damn about his kids and perhaps was happy to see them die (I'm not saying this is the case, simply that it's a possibility if we accept what StuRat said as true) doesn't come close proving he murdered them in itself. Many people are happy Adolf Hitler died and wouldn't have helped him when he was dying, who weren't even born when he was alive. (I'm not saying the Adolf Hitler is the same as his kids, simply pointing out an obvious case when plenty of people wouldn't help a person dying yet clearly weren't involved in his death.) If the standard in Texas for a murder case with the death penalty is really so weak then it seems likely a lot of innocent people have been executed. Nil Einne (talk) 07:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I imagine the thought in the mind of the jurors was "I'm not positive he's guilty, but, even if he isn't, he still deserves to die for being a 'disgusting person who didn't give a damn about his kids and perhaps was happy to see them die' ". StuRat (talk) 07:27, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I know we all speculate a lot here, in general, but can you try to not do so when it's so blatant? Shadowjams (talk) 09:02, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. I would note that even if we accept the suggestion the jurors had resonable doubt but decided to ignore it because he 'deserves to die', this doesn't mean they would have decided to convinct without the arson evidence, a standard suggested earlier. In fact, while I'm sure some questionable cases could be found, the only other case presented by StuRat suggests perhaps juries don't infact generally convict people just because of dodgy behaviour. Nil Einne (talk) 13:39, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Jury nullification is when the jury agrees that the person is guilty, but declare them innocent anyway, perhaps because they consider the sentence to be too harsh for the crime. I wonder if there's a term for the reverse, when a jury agrees that the person is innocent, or at least doesn't agree that they are guilty, but still convicts, because they despise that person and think letting them go is too lenient. StuRat (talk) 00:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

As a post script, one salutary case in the UK that gave real impetus to the abolition movement, was the wrongful execution of Timothy Evans in 1950. He was hanged for the murder of his wife, on the evidence of his landlord, John Christie (murderer). Three years later, it was found that Christie had hidden the corpses of several other young women in his apartment, and he confessed to the murder of Mrs Evans. By then, Evans had been dead and buried for some time. Alansplodge (talk) 11:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Chester Bowles Asian Fellowship

Was the Chester Bowles Asian Fellowship which Gloria Steinen ws awarded associated with Chester Bowles, Former US Ambassador to India? Is there a list of other recipients? -- 16:34, 5 March 2012‎ 96.56.168.74

Painting by Milon

Hello,

I have a very large framed oil painting with the artist's name in the bottom left side as MILON in large green letters. It is approximately 35 to 40 years old, maybe older. It is in colors of reds and greens and of a potted plant, a bottle,(looks to be champagne), and a bowl of green apples (?). I have tried different sources for information on this artist and can't find anything. The Milon I did come up with was into glassworks. Does anyone on this site have any information on this artist? It's actually a pretty painting hanging in my living room. Thank you in advance for any assistance. L. Griffin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.217.6.134 (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

There is an artist Milon Mukherjee who signs his works as "Milon" - here, and some more information here, here and here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Sir Henry Arthur Blake

Was he generally known by his first or second name? Kittybrewster ☎ 17:30, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

In this NY Times article he is consistently referred to as Sir Henry Blake. Almost all other references agree, except this page from Stanford, which names him Sir (Henry} Arthur Blake. I believe this is an error, however. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:02, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Ditto here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:05, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

His London Times obituary has the title A Distiguished Irishman - Death of Sir Henry Blake MilborneOne (talk) 19:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Use of UK libraries restricted to local residents?

Am I able to use a public library in another area of the UK from which I don't pay council tax to? eg: a Liverpudlian travelling up and using Newcastle library etc?

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.244.252 (talk) 21:27, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Depends on local arrangements. You'll need a proof of address that you're from the qualifying area, whatever that is - generally a county, but with some exceptions (e.g. the "Libraries West" arrangement allows any resident of former-Avon, Wiltshire, & Somerset to use each others libraries). Obviously, this only covers getting a card, & borrowing things - if you're just talking about walking in and using the facilities, anyone can --Saalstin (talk) 21:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks. I was just wanting to visit, so that's that sorted. As a visitor, though, you're still allowed to photocopy books when there, correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.244.252 (talk) 21:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

This is OR from personal experience, but (at least in popular holiday locations) one can get a 'holiday membership' to a library, often on payment of a nominal fee - say £5. It generally allows borrowing of fewer books over a shorter period than regular membership, but it's worth asking about. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 23:33, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

People like teachers can sometimes get membership in the municipality where they teach, even if it's not where they live. HiLo48 (talk) 01:13, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I used an "away" Cornall library, was asked if I was a member of my local library, and on answering yes, was given free access to their internet facilities. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:28, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

City of Westminster library, which I use, allows anyone with proof of permanent address anywhere in the UK to join. If you are actually intending to use a non-local library, it is probably easiest just to call them or check on their webiste. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:49, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks all for the replies! I emailed the library in question and can become a member if I bring with me proof of ID and address. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.244.252 (talk) 14:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Looking for an ancient poem or song

In a documentary by Richard Miles he refers to (quote from memory, I'm certain there are many errors here) "a 4,000 years old poem... describing a good city: The stores are well provided/and the people bath to the holiday/ The old man are mighty in wisdom/ and the old women give good advice/ the young man are eager to fight/ and the young women eager to dance/ The children play with joy/ The people are happy." Any idea as to the source? If I remember the dating right, it must predate Home by more then a millennium. 109.64.24.206 (talk) 21:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

If it's really that old then it pretty much has to be either Egyptian or Mesopotamian. The Epic of Gilgamesh seems like the highest probability. Looie496 (talk) 23:25, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

In the introduction to Ancient Worlds, Miles says it's from the "Curse of Akkad."--Cam (talk) 05:18, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but here [1] seems to be the entire (?) text, and no such description of the city. 79.183.18.214 (talk) 07:30, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Better to look at The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature for example: Here's their translation. Compare the lines you remembered with: "She [i.e. Inana] endowed its old women with the gift of giving counsel, she endowed its old men with the gift of eloquence. She endowed its young women with the gift of entertaining, she endowed its young men with martial might, she endowed its little ones with joy. The nursemaids who cared for (some mss. have instead: of) the general's children played the aljarsur instruments. Inside the city tigi drums sounded; outside it, flutes and zamzam instruments. Its harbour where ships moored was full of joy. All foreign lands rested contentedly, and their people experienced happiness." ---Sluzzelin talk 09:32, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you all VERY much! 79.183.18.214 (talk) 10:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

March 6

negotiation

is the article on negotiation a possible research topic? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinyho (talk • contribs) 08:35, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I think you need to clarify your question. Are you asking about improving the existing article on negotiation in Wikipedia? If so, the answer is definitely "yes". But if you're asking about whether you can base a research paper for some academic institution on the Wikipedia article, the answer will depend on the requirements of the course and institution; but is likely to be "no" because in general encyclopaedia articles are not appropriate bases for research other than by providing a list of reliable sources to examine. --ColinFine (talk) 09:27, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

However, the "References and further reading" section at the end of our article could get you started on primary sources for your paper. StuRat (talk) 00:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Help in identifying subjcts in photo

Creole girls, Plaquemines Parish, 1935

Would anyone happen to know the identity of these three girls in this photograph taken in Plaquemines Parish, Louisiana in 1935? Thank you.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:36, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

If you take a look at the Library of Congress site, [2] from which the photo was uploaded, there are dozens of 35mm photos which might have been taken around the same time and place as the one of the three women (sisters?). None of the others seem to show the same three women, but might be photos of neighbors. One creole individual is identified in on of the photos, and the occupation (unemployed trappers) is given. They might or might not be related to the three girls, who seem more prosperous (better clothes, jewelry). There is also identified a white family of tenant farmers. Several homes appear to be up near a levee, similar to ones I have seen by the Mississippi near New Orleans. I did not see a wire fence like the one behind the girls in the other photos. I won't give the names here because some of the children might still be living and it wold seem an invasion of their privacy. Given the parish and a couple of family names, one could then turn to the 1930 US Census to see who lived in and near the plantation. The 1940 census will also become accessible to the public a few days from now, and is accessible through Ancestry.com and other genealogical sites (subscription required.) Edison (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

OT, but an interesting style of guitar I haven't seen before. It's evidently manufactured rather than home-made, as one can dimly discern a label through the soundhole. Can anyone point me to information on such? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.254 (talk) 19:01, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

It looks like a Balalaika to me. At least, that's where I first go when I see a triangular-bodied guitar-like instrument. --Jayron32 20:08, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

There are too many strings to be a balalaika. The fingerboard looks like a standard guitar fingerboard. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 20:24, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

There are uncountable number of hybrid string instruments. Like the guitjo and the banjolele and banjolin and any number of other such hybrids. They were actually quite popular in the 1920s and 1930s (c.f. George Formby), so I would not be surprised that a commercially availible "balalaika-guitar hybrid" of some sort were availible at the time. --Jayron32 20:32, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not disputing the hybrid aspect, but I just don't think it has anything to do with a balalaika. If you look closely, the body depicted here isn't even a triangle. There are four sides, whereas balalaikas have three sides with the apex of the triangle meeting right at the neck. The only similarity this instrument has to a balalaika is that it is vaguely triangle-shaped when seen from a distance. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 21:00, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The guitar is a "Harmony Supertone Hill Country" guitar.--Cam (talk) 00:46, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Well found! --Jayron32 04:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

$2.98 in the Sears catalog! --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 16:21, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Cam. (And apologies for veering from the OP's query). Now I wants one, but not, sadly, at that price. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.188 (talk) 12:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

In point of fact I was curious about the guitar as well. What is truly incredible to realise is that the girls would all be in their 90s if they are still alive.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Speaking technically, Jeanne, if you realise something, it's ipso facto credible, at least to you. But I sort of know what you're getting at.  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 19:39, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for you, JackofOz. I posted a question here and I fail to see how your sarky comments provide me with the answer. I sadly conclude that you just couldn't resist the temptation to put someone down. May I suggest that if you cannot find anything constructive to do around here why not try editing some stubs that are in dire need of expansion. Hmm?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Whoa. Sorry if I upset you, Jeanne. It was a light-hearted comment (see the smiley), not a put-down of you or anyone. It had zero sarcasm, but if it came across that way to you, that's something I take on board for the future. Thanks for the feedback. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 19:48, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Incredible also to realize is that someone in their 90s once looked like those girls. Bus stop (talk) 20:21, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

italian poetry, read, online

are there free audio readings online of italian (not latin) poetry? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.92.82.6 (talk) 16:19, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

commons:Dante#Sounds. – b_jonas 10:53, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

things fall apart

with reference to Achebe's 'THINGS FALL APART' discuss Achebe's response to the colonial notion that Africa has no historical interest of its own ,for we find it's inhabitants living barbarism and savages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.205.183.34 (talk) 17:32, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

We don't do people's homework for them. Read our Chinua Achebe and Things Fall Apart articles. And read Things Fall Apart itself. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:40, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

PLUTONOMY MEMO

Was the Citigroup Plutonomy memo really produced by the corporation Citigroup?If so where can I get a copy of the plutonomy memo that I can cite for my research papér? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.152.20.215 (talk) 23:18, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

No doubt about it. Right now, the link in our Citigroup article is working. No link to the second memo, "Revisiting Plutonomy" there though. Can be hard to get them because Citigroup tries to pull them off the web.John Z (talk) 01:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Here's the second report. [3] I find it quite cute that Citigroup et al thinks they are capable of censoring the entire internet. Anonymous.translator (talk) 04:54, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

- So what the hell guys? I could've sworn that there was a wiki article on the Citibank Plutonomy memo, what happened? No mention of it on wikipedia, is it their PR doing this?

March 7

Young adult novel where boy hears dead mom in fan?

Does anyone know the name of a young adult novel about a boy whose mother has died telling a girl that he hears the voice of his dead mother when he talks into an electric fan. --Gary123 (talk) 02:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

different "Wake Up America" poster

I'm trying to find a different "Wake Up America" poster. No, I'm not referring to the WWI and WWII versions by James Montgomery Flagg. I'm referring to a poster which depicts a bird singing and buildings appearing to be waking up. Where can I find such a copy?24.90.204.234 (talk) 05:35, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, a lengthy Google search failed miserably. I did find this image, which seems to fit in well with the discussion above about circumcision in the US ;-) Alansplodge (talk) 17:13, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

No! How could you?! >:( 24.90.204.234 (talk) 14:27, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

The two Universities shall kiss at Stamford

...a prophecy (to which you may find allusion in the fourth book of "The Faerie Queene" that both Universities [i.e. Cambridge and Oxford] would meet in the end, and kiss, at Stamford. Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch, "On The Art of Writing". [4]

Can someone who knows more about Spenser than I do resolve the reference? And does anyone know of any other record of this prophecy? Marnanel (talk) 13:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

The most famous "prophecies" in 16th-century England were probably those of Mother Shipton... AnonMoos (talk) 13:46, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I can't find quite that in The Faerie Queene, but Book 4, Canto 11, stanza 35 has this:

And after him the fatall Welland went,
That if old sawes prove true (which God forbid)
Shall drowne all Holland with his excrement,
And shall see Stamford, though now homely hid,
Then shine in learning, more then ever did
Cambridge or Oxford, Englands goodly beames.

I think I can go some way toward explaining those lines. In 1261 a number of Cambridge students seceded from the University and tried to set up a rival university in Northampton. In 1333 many Oxford students and teachers made a similar attempt to set up a Northampton University, before moving on again to Stamford. Neither project lasted more than a few years, but they were remembered for much longer. In the 15th century the chronicler John Hardyng built the facts up into a claim that a University of Stamford had been founded by the mythical king Bladud, father of Lear, and had lasted until it was suppressed by Pope Gregory the Great. He also included in his chronicle an alleged prophecy of Merlin:

That studious throng which
Oxenford doth cherish
In time to come the Stoneyford
Shall nourish.

The historian Richard White (1539-1611) combined the two genuinely historical incidents into a move by students from both Oxford and Cambridge to Northampton, and then (1264) to Stamford. All the above is abstracted from Martin Smith Stamford Myths and Legends (1991). --Antiquary (talk) 19:53, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Lieutenant Governor (question about the word)

After I have asked several persons I know I am going to ask it here.

Why is the Governor's deputy in U.S. States called Lieutenant Governor and not Vice Governor? The President's deputy is also called Vice President and not Lieutenant President. Does the word Vice Governor exist in American or not? I question this because in my native language (German) a Lieutenant Governor is called "Vizegouverneur" what means Vice Governor in English. Because the word Vice exists in Engish (such as in Vice-President or Vice-Admiral) I wonder why it is not used for a governor. Is there an explanation to that? Thanks in advance, Jerchel (talk) 19:57, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

The term *vice governor is not in use in the United States. Instead, as you have said, the stand-in for a governor is called a lieutenant governor. See Lieutenant#Etymology, which explains that the word lieutenant means "someone who holds a position in the absence of his superior", which is exactly what a lieutenant governor does. Sorry that I don't know why this word was chosen for the governor's stand-in while vice was chosen for the president's stand-in. Vice is apparently a Latin word, while lieutenant is an originally French word with roughly the same meaning. English is like that; it often has more than one word from different sources with similar meanings. The use of one such word rather than another is generally a historical accident. Marco polo (talk) 20:48, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

The USA got the term "governor" from Britain, and Commonwealth countries that have state or provincial governors (Australia, Canada, maybe some others) have "lieutenant-governors". The question is not so much why they're not called "vice-governor" in the USA, but why the Vice-President is not called "Lieutenant-President". Probably because it sounds too militaristic. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Aside from its use in lieutenant governor, the term lieutenant is most often used for military ranks, such as lieutenant colonel or lieutenant general. Its use for the governor's stand-in in North America may date to the time before independence when (British) colonial governors, such as John Murray, 4th Earl of Dunmore or William Phips, also served as commanders of colonial militias. Marco polo (talk) 21:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

See this previous question on the Language Desk. Alansplodge (talk) 21:53, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

EO indicates that "vice-" means "deputy", while "lieu(tenant-)" means "in place of". A paper-thin distinction, it would seem. But maybe connected with the level of the office. For example, "viceroy", a "deputy king". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

UK Social Services

I heard on tv today about a chap who accidentally came across a site containing pornography. He was shocked and reported it to the police. They “borrowed” his computer and got the Social Services involved. They got an order from the court whereby he cannot see his daughter for nine months. Can anybody find a written source for this please? Kittybrewster ☎ 22:08, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

[5], but it's four months not nine and of course we only have his word for it that he "accidentally" came across the images. --Viennese Waltz 23:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, he found the images on his computer – which he claimed were a result of accessing particular sites but may not have been, I don't know. Given the seriousness of child pronography offences, I'm sure the police are examining the possibilities thoroughly.

Secondly, he is allowed to see his daughter, just not on his own. "When his wife works late, as regularly happens, Mr Robinson's daughter goes to his mother-in-law's home." Generally, then, this is not nearly as much of a problem as a full ban. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 23:09, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

well I think he was a chump to have reported it. Kittybrewster ☎ 23:20, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Considering his suggested alternate solution was just throw the computer away, with no mention of wiping the HDD/s, it's perhaps fortunate for him that he did report it or he may very well be now completely banned from seeing his daughter. Nil Einne (talk) 07:41, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Money Market savings account vs. standard savings accounts

Why do banks usually give better rates for money market accounts than savings accounts? Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:15, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Judging by the first paragraph of money market accounts it's to do with minimum balances. If you have a savings account where you have to keep say $1,000 dollars in it at all times then that's a more stable account than one where money can be constantly coming and going. Usually every extra barrier to preventing you spending/withdrawing your savings will result in a little more interest being thrown your way. ny156uk (talk) 22:46, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

[6], [7]: Money market accounts have higher minimal balances, and limit the number of transactions per month. This means that the bank has more freedom to use the funds in the account, so can afford to pay a bit higher (though typically still quite low) interest rate. Buddy431 (talk) 05:06, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

In the US, a bank savings account is protected by the FDIC (within limits), and requires the bank to hold a portion (8% or so) in reserves. Money market accounts do not have these same conditions, and may be re-invested in riskier asset classes such as bonds. DOR (HK) (talk) 05:42, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Money market accounts are insured by the FDIC too [8]. Money Market accounts are distinct from Money market mutual funds which, despite the name similarity, are really quite different. Money market mutual funds are not FDIC insured. Buddy431 (talk) 18:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Flatulence as torture method?

Yes, yes, giggle. Now, I saw this on South Park as a parody of 24. It would be bloody unpleasant I'm sure, but has anyone ever done any serious research into this, in terms s of torture effectiveness? I'm thinking CIA type conditioning... Rixxin (talk) 22:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Torture for the recipient or torture for the producer? Bus stop (talk) 01:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

South Park! Next Ref Desk question please ( this one stinks).--Aspro (talk) 01:35, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me there are far more effective tortures, both in terms of unpleasantness and humiliation. The difficulty of needing to fart on cue is another problem. StuRat (talk) 07:21, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a job for Johnny Fartpants! Alansplodge (talk) 13:28, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I think the answer to the question is that no, nobody has ever seriously investigated it, but it may well have been done at some point in an impromptu or unauthorised way. Humiliation and sexual abuse are sometimes used as part of torture, and could involve many things. Another method (which has been used by the USA) is to restrain people until they piss and shit themselves. See Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, Torture and the United States, and the rather poor article List of methods of torture. Abuse and humilation of prisoners takes many forms, but I'd be surprised if someone hasn't farted at a prisoner at some point. Pretending to shit on the Koran is reported in a number of cases (see previous links) and this may well have involved a little anal flatulence.

Offensive-smelling chemical compounds are sometimes used for crowd control - see Non-lethal weapon#Scent-based weapons - but I can't find any evidence of them being used as torture. Unpleasant odors (feces, urine, burning flesh) would be an incidental part of many forms of imprisonment and torture.

On the other hand, a Swedish convict was punished for farting at his guards.[9] --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:38, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

March 8

Livonian fashion

Livonian belles

Our article on Livonia includes this rather splendid picture by Dürer. Is the burqa/birthday cake type affair in the middle accurate, or could it be Dürer's fantasy? If real, were such things common in medieval Europe, or was this a particularly Livonian taste? Henry^Flower 04:52, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Definitely not common in medieval Europe. StuRat (talk) 04:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

According to this page, from the Finnish National Board of Antiquities, as late as the 18th Century Livonian women were wearing a garment with prehistoric roots in the Baltics and Finland, a large shawl fastened at the front with a silver clasp and covering the head and shoulders. There is unfortunately no illustration, but my guess is this would be the "burqa" in Dürer’s drawing, although Dürer is no doubt embellishing a bit.--Rallette (talk) 07:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

These costumes show a slight Byzantine influence.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:50, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Which Are The 4 Publicly Funded Art Universities?

Here claims that it is one of 4 publicly funded art universities in Canada (paraphrased). Which are the other 3?Curb Chain (talk) 10:01, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

If you had looked further into that Web site, you would have found the first sentence here. Deor (talk) 11:13, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Hound names

Quote from "Looking back" by EM Creighton: "Beagles are not given 'doggy' names, they have what is known as hound names.". What does this mean? Kittybrewster ☎ 10:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

A bit of digging found this book about hunting with dogs, which discusses the naming of beagles and other hounds. Even in 1903, the names are described as "old fashioned" but still "preferable". "How infinitely to be preferred, for example, are such names as Bravery, Champion, Stormer, and Statesman, to Squeaker, Sally, Thwacker, and Gaslight, all of which I have encountered". Hound names seem to be more solid, masculine names, as opposed to the slightly more light-hearted names you'd give a pet dog. Smurrayinchester 12:15, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

"Wolves and hounds were especially meaningful to the Celts. The implied meaning of many wolf and hound names is that of a warrior."[10] Bus stop (talk) 13:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

"The naming of hounds is important because a Foxhound is an animal of enormous dignity and is far and away better bred than most of the humans who are likely to come in contact with it. It deserves a name in keeping with its station."[11] Bus stop (talk) 13:13, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I would think the point was to name an animal in some connection to its function, i.e. "workers" vs. "pets". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:42, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Mayan Calendar, Leap Days & The Winter Solstice

Main Question: Is it just a coincidence that the Mayan calendar rolls over to the next long count on the winter solstice?

It's my understanding that the Mayan long count calendar is not designed to track the seasons (as the Gregorian calendar does) but rather just to count the number of days since their creation, which is why it does not have any leap days. Is this correct?. If it is, then is it just a coincidence that the next rollover on 13.0.0.0.0 happens to fall on the winter solstice? Thanks in advance for any help. --CGPGrey (talk) 11:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, according to Mesoamerican Long Count calendar the previous rollover, 12.0.0.0.0 happened on September 18, 1618, and the one after, 14.0.0.0.0 will happen on March 26, 2407. The Mayan calendar wasn't year based but day based, so there's no reason it should follow solstices. Indeed, the Mayans, being tropical, wouldn't have cared about the solstices much at all since in the tropics, the sun doesn't reach its highest/lowest point on the solstices and without accurate clocks there's no other way to tell what day the solstice is. Instead according to an (uncited) claim in our article on Maya civilization they cared about zenial passages, when the sun is directly overhead - much easier to measure. Smurrayinchester 12:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Will EU be like SO?

Given the current economic problems in Europe (Greece, Portugal, Spain, etc.) and the European Union being in disarray, do you think it will cease to exist in the way the Soviet Union ceased to exist? B-Machine (talk) 17:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

"The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions or predictions about future events. " RudolfRed (talk) 19:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

It can't cease to exist in the way that the Soviet Union ceased to exist, because it does not exist in the way that the Soviet Union existed. The members of the EU have much more sovereignty than Soviet republics had. Looie496 (talk) 19:35, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, EU does not have centrally planned economy. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 23:39, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

However, if the EU goes out of business, it will indeed be like the USSR, in the sense that it will be non-existent. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:40, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Another difference is that the EU isn't held together by the KGB and the tanks of the Red Army. Alansplodge (talk) 17:21, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

It would only cease to exist if all the member governments wanted to withdraw - and that seems extremely unlikely in the foreseeable future (are there even any major political parties that support withdrawal?). 130.88.99.218 (talk) 18:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, you have to keep in mind that not all countries would withdraw at the same time (which would be unlikely) should a withdrawal occur. If one of the "power nations" such as France or Germany should withdraw (and indeed there are significant factions in both that support withdrawal from the EU) then the smaller nations would not see any point in staying in. It's a domino effect. 24.92.85.35 (talk) 17:14, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

When does crown copyright expire in Australia?

So I checked the section about Australian crown copyright, but there is no mention of how long it lasts, unlike the other sections. However, in the article about Cyclone Tracy, there is a mention of a "30-year rule". Does that mean that crown copyright in Australia lasts for 30 years? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 22:32, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The thirty-year rule generally refers to a system by which confidential official documents are made public after thirty years - nothing to do with copyright, but simply that they're now available to researchers through public archives, etc. Some particularly sensitive material used to run on a hundred-year rule, which was the same thing only stricter. (These strict rules are now a bit vaguer in some places because of freedom of information legislation, which usually doesn't set a fixed time but mandates that material can be released when asked for, if not otherwise protected. So some material that would normally have been closed after thirty years is now released much sooner; other material remains closed, if not applied for, until it's released under the normal run of things.)

Crown copyright in Australia currently lasts for 50 years (in most cases) - see Copyright law of Australia#Government-owned copyright. Shimgray | talk | 23:13, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The Black Duke's Hand

I've been (hopefully) improving the Black Brunswickers article, which has a "Wikipedia:Good articles/History" rating, despite (until very recently) containing some machine-translated gibberish from the German article. Anyway, this site, describing the demise of the "Black Duke" at the Battle of Quatre Bras says; " It was a fatal wound, the musketball smashed through the Duke's one hand, his abdomen and his liver." Our article Frederick William, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel doesn't even mention that he only had one hand. So what happened to the other one? Google has failed me for once. Alansplodge (talk) 23:18, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Sounds more like an awkward way of saying it smashed through "one of the Duke's hands", i.e. the other one was perfectly fine. But then, "one of his hands" is also a bit awkward because it sounds like he has a bunch of hands, while "one of his two hands" is redundant because obviously he only has two. Strangely enough "through the Duke's hand" sounds fine to me. I suppose the best solution would be to find out which hand and specify it. Or maybe he did have just one hand! (Or maybe you are being sarcastic and I just can't tell?) Adam Bishop (talk) 00:20, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

No sarcasm intended. Alansplodge (talk) 01:11, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I see that the Black Brunswickers article says "the Duke's only hand", but could this be, as you say, a poor machine translation? Adam Bishop (talk) 11:56, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Probably an error. According to this 1837 source, he was on horseback and the bullet went through his left hand. Iblardi (talk) 12:32, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid that I added "the Duke's only hand" in a fit of over enthusiasm. I'll take it out again. I believe that the original language of the website I quoted above isn't English, so you're probably right - it's a translation error. Thanks for the reference Iblardi; my German is really poor, but isn't that gothic typeface difficult to read? The statue of the Duke shown on our WP page has him holding a sabre in his right hand, so I think we can conclude that he did have two hands. Thank you both. Alansplodge (talk) 15:35, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I didn't think of doing a Google Image search. Here's the Duke's statue from a better angle, showing both hands. This portrait makes him look as mad as a box of frogs! Alansplodge (talk) 15:41, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Resolved

March 9

Capability of the UN regulating the internet

Regarding the new treaty on internet governance backed by China and Russia, how would the UN be able to regulate the internet? They'd have to go through the United States to take control of the domain name system. The United Nations is impotent, so I don't see how all of these other countries would be able to regulate the internet. Would it be within their own borders or would traffic be intercepted internationally in a coordinated manner? --Melab±1 ☎ 01:09, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

They would only be able to do it with the cooperation of the member states who actually have physical control over the internet lines, hubs, etc. The Internet is a bunch of hardware connected by a bunch of wires — it is a physical thing that lives in a physical world. It's not unregulatable, but you really have to take that into consideration when thinking about how it'd be regulated. There is zero possibility that the UN could do it without a lot of active participation from the member states. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:04, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Since China's main interests in the internet are for cyber-attacks, copyright infringement, and censorship, it's quite possible they may want to have the UN regulate it, knowing full well they will be incompetent at it, leaving China free to do as it pleases. StuRat (talk) 02:17, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Why would a UN organisation be less competent at regulating the internet than anyone else? And why would incompetent regulation be better for the Chinese government than no regulation? Seriously, what is with these bizarre assertions about the UN? Though I'm not sure what treaty are we talking about exactly - the only references I can find are from random blogs that call it the 'internet control freak treaty'. To Melab: I'm not really sure why you think it would be necessary to take control of the domain name system globally - countries already routinely filter access to domains; there is no reason why you can't do this on a local level. I imagine it would be trivial for China to separate from the existing domain name system if they really wanted to. 130.88.99.218 (talk) 17:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

How many examples can you think of where the UN solved any major problem ? For example, how did they do at preventing genocide in Rwanda ? They make lots of resolutions about Israel/Palestine, so I take it they've solved that problem ? StuRat (talk) 22:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I take it you realise that the UN Security Council is only one dimension of the UN?

ALR (talk) 22:51, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but how has the UN done at accomplishing most of it's goals ? StuRat (talk) 23:39, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

The World Meteorological Organisation and UNESCO are both arms of the United Nations. They have achieved a lot. HiLo48 (talk) 01:58, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Well given that the goals of the UN are centred around facilitating international co-operation and dialogue in many areas it's pretty successful. From a personal perspective I think the UNSC structure is not conducive to delivering that around conflict but that's a legacy of when the UNSC was formed and reducing the power of the five permanent members is well nigh impossible; turkeys rarely vote for Xmyth.

In other areas ICAO and IMO are pretty successful, the International Court of Justice has had many successes in areas that national courts are limited. ITO is a success. UNIDO has been less effective in the last couple of years although that's largely down to economic retrenchment and increased protectionism.

With respect to the issue at hand I think it's going to be a real struggle as it brings the ITU into opposition with the WTO, although that's not a UN body. Implementation would appear to involve a number of anti-competitive measures that I'm not convinced are within the purview of the body.

ALR (talk) 11:23, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

The World Health Organization has been hugley successful, for example in co-ordinating the eradicate of smallpox, and in many other ways. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 12:29, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Beyond the examples given above, I would suggest the United Nations Development Programme has also had some success. In fact, if you look at List of specialized agencies of the United Nations, I would suggest most agencies there have had some success. E.g. UPU, FAO, ICAO, IFAD. Even the IMF and the World Bank (parts of which are UN agencies) for all the criticism they tend to come under would seem to have been successful in some areas. And whether or not the goals here are smart, it seems to me that the ITU has been somewhat successful in a number of areas particularly around standardisation. In fact, logic would suggest if the ITU was really as useless and toothless as suggested, then people like the FCC commissioner below wouldn't really give a damn. (This doesn't mean the treaty, if agreed to, will work.) Nil Einne (talk) 16:25, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

The agencies list is relatively short; see Category:Organizations established by the United Nations for more (including some now-defunct ones). It's hard to argue that, eg, UNRRA or UNICEF have not had a net positive effect. Shimgray | talk | 18:42, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Activists in unfree/partly free section of the world gain information about freedom and rights through the internet, and the servers of most websites are based in the free world (i.e. the first world). So it is predictable that some countries, such as those mentioned above, will try to destroy the epicenter of knowledge, which is possible only through the United Nations. If the United States doesn't shut down servers/websites in their land, they will be accused of violating international laws. Here is a critical analysis. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 04:48, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Note that that article is by a commissioner of the US Federal Communications Commission, so hardly a neutral party. I'm a little bit surprised by the lack of independent analysis of any of this - maybe I'm just choosing bad search terms. 130.88.73.65 (talk) 18:40, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Queen Anne Boleyn's polydactyly

Interesting and funny (even if a rumour) :

• the english article Anne Boleyn reads "... and on her right hand six fingers"
• the french article fr:Anne Boleyn : "... polydactylie (six doigts à sa main gauche)" = left hand
• the german de:Anne Boleyn : "... an jeder Hand sechs Finger (Polydaktylie)" = both hands

I asked the question here fr:Wikipédia:Oracle/semaine 10 2012#la reine Anne Boleyn (Oracle = Reference desk) and someone who searched different books on google books answered that the left hand was mentioned more times...

Anybody, another information ? 84.227.88.17 (talk) 07:56, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, according to the Chicago Medical Recorder, Volume 37 published by the Chicago Medical Society, she had 6 fingers in both hands, and 6 toes in both feet. But a quick google search shows there is no proper information available and different sources are making different claims. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 08:19, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

A BBC article claims historians dispute whether Anne Boleyn really had polydactyly. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 08:21, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

The six fingers allegation derived from the pro-Catholic Nicholas Sanders who was overtly hostile towards Anne and greatly contributed to the monster image of Anne Boleyn.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:15, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Jeanne, that's certainly been persuasively argued, but I'm not sure that historians agree on it. --Dweller (talk) 13:49, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

So, how reliable is the information about her third nipple/breast? Astronaut (talk) 14:37, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

How would you know if a woman had third nipple in 16th century? Of course reality show didn't exist at that time. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 00:00, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Considering people of all social class were wildly superstitious in the 16th century, the presence of six fingers, a third breast and a large wen on her neck - all believed to have been the marks of the Devil - would this have made her popular at the French and English courts, not to mention endearing her to Margaret of Austria? The likely destination of a girl with these obvious birthmarks would have been a convent not three royal courts.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:29, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, considering that the king had executed Boleyn, saying nasty things about her would have been a good way to win the king's favor. Certainly few would have dared to speak up in her defense. Marco polo (talk) 17:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I changed the info in the German WP, now matching the English WP (six fingers at her right hand), in order to match the original 1585 quote (Anne Boleyn was rather tall of stature, with black hair and an oval face of sallow complexion, as if troubled with jaundice. She had a projecting tooth under the upper lip, and on her right hand, six fingers), see Nicholas Sander; Edward Rishton (editor): De origine ac progressu schismatis Anglicani, Cologne 1585, fol. 16 and Ingolstadt 1587, p. 16.. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 18:09, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

ECB liquidity boost for banks

So the European Central Bank lends banks money at ultra-low interest rates, which enables the banks to purchase government bonds that yield much higher rates. It's like the Fed's quantitative easing, no, but instead of banks parking the money at the Fed they're buying high-yielding investments? Isn't this just giving money to the banks? If it's just another form of government bailout, wouldn't it make more sense for taxpayers to take a stake in the banks in return? 66.108.223.179 (talk) 14:40, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Debt holders get paid before equity holders in a bankruptcy, so the ECB is taking less risk by lending money to banks than it would be if it bought a stake in the banks. (You can combine the two with convertible bonds, but I haven't heard that proposed.) Generally, governments want to try and keep at an arm's length from the actual management of private businesses, which is difficult once you own large stakes in them. As for banks buying high yield government bonds, I'm not sure they are. Governments bonds in most EU countries are at very low yields at the moment. (Greece is obviously an exception, but nobody is buying Greek bonds - that's why Greece needs EU and IMF bailouts.) --Tango (talk) 16:10, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it is a handout to banks. One hand washes the other. Imposing government ownership on the banks might lead to things like limits on vast compensation for managers (effectively) at public expense. Politicians in many countries are (partly) dependent on bankers for campaign funding, so they are loath to interfere with bankers' privileges. Note that François Hollande has threatened to do so, and as a result other European leaders are shunning him. Marco polo (talk) 18:00, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm well aware that US politicians are all bought and sold by major campaign contributors, but wasn't aware that this was also true in Europe. Is it ? StuRat (talk) 22:21, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Spanish and Italian bonds yield quite a bit, and even safer governments are paying more than what the ECB charges in interest, no? 66.108.223.179 (talk) 21:04, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Correct. To be fair, while the ECB certainly intends to help banks, it also intends to help governments. By flooding banks with cheap euros, the ECB intends to increase the supply of credit to countries such as Italy and Spain, thereby helping the financial position of those governments, and, by keeping interest rates down, supporting the euro-zone economy. The ECB works through banks rather than buying government debt directly (as other central banks do) because its charter forbids such direct action. Is it pure coincidence that its charter forces the ECB to act in a way that benefits banks? Marco polo (talk) 22:03, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't believe the intention is to enrich banks. I think it is a side effect that is accepted due to the lack of a political backlash. Bailout sound so much dirtier than quantitative easing, even though it's more fiscally responsible. Also, bailouts (in the form of preferred stock placements, say) require political action, while QE takes only a central bank. 66.108.223.179 (talk) 03:42, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

What rate is the ECB charging? The ECB's page on the most recent 3-year bonds issued to banks is here, but it doesn't give an interest rate. The ECB's front page says the rate for its "main refinancing operations" is 1.00%, but I believe those are for the normal 1-week bonds (and compares with 0.14% on German 3-month bonds, I can't find anything other than 10 year yields for Italy and Spain). --Tango (talk) 01:12, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

It was 1%.[12] The link works if you reach it through Google, I think ("European Central Bank long-term refinancing operation"). 66.108.223.179 (talk) 03:38, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Well found, thanks. The 3-year yield on German bonds is 0.28%, and it looks like it's around 3% for Italy and Spain. That suggests banks can make significant profits by borrowing from the ECB at 1% and buying Italian or Spanish bonds at 3%, but they are taking the risk that Italy or Spain may default on those bonds (it is that risk that gives them a high spread against German bonds). --Tango (talk) 16:44, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

politcal eating

what does tony blair eat? Anthony J Pintglass (talk) 15:30, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Food, I would imagine. --Tango (talk) 16:03, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

There were a lot of jokes about Old Labour's steriotypical working class "beer and sandwiches" (see [13][14][15]) being replaced by New Labour's "Perrier water and wild rocket salad" (supposedly a Yuppie staple). See [16][17][18][19][20] Alansplodge (talk) 16:57, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Well Peter Mandelson famously ate pea guacamole with his fish and chips... --TammyMoet (talk) 18:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

It should be pointed out that Peter Mandelson never actually confused mushy peas with guacamole dip. It was originally an American intern, working in Jack Straw's office but drafted in to help in the 1986 Knowsley North byelection, who did; the story was applied to Peter Mandelson afterwards. Sam Blacketer (talk) 20:15, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes the link did say the story was apocryphal... --TammyMoet (talk) 21:46, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Something politicians very rarely eat is humble pie. HiLo48 (talk) 21:05, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

His Sedgefield constituency leaflet, along with an interview in the Sun, claims fish and chips are his favourite foods, the Islington cookbook he contributed to says fettucini with sun-dried tomatoes, capers and olive oil. They're probably political choices though - unsurprisingly, Islington is upper middle class, Sedgefield is working class. He's also claimed meatballs in tomato sauce are his favourite. People who've eaten with or served him say his favourite foods are steak and chips, BLT sandwiches and Beck's beer, pistachios and bananas - probably more likely what he actually eats on a day to day basis. Smurrayinchester 22:03, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Gustave Le Bon and Plato

Were Gustave Le Bon's ideas on propaganda influenced by platonic philosophy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.146.124.35 (talk) 15:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

You may find crowd psychology a common denominator between Le Bon (La Psychologie des foules) and Plato (Republic) and relate that to propaganda. --Omidinist (talk) 04:40, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

tulpa

Is it true that tulpas can become stron enough to take over the host body? 93.12.151.111 (talk) 19:03, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Are you talking about this? Falconus^{p t c} 19:22, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

How long would it take a wealthy student to reach New York City from Princeton, New Jersery, in the year 1772?

How long would it take a wealthy student to reach New York City from Princeton, New Jersery, in the year 1772? 82.31.133.165 (talk) 23:38, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

It might depend on the time of year, but it's about 60 miles, which sounds like a day's trip by horse, to me. However, 60 miles in a day is a bit rough on one horse, so, ideally, you'd either switch horses halfway or spend the night. Since spare horses are hard to come by, making it a two-day trip might be more realistic, assuming you don't want to drive your horse too hard. StuRat (talk) 00:20, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

In many parts of England around that time, there was a well-developed network of "posting inns" where people who were "traveling post" (i.e. not using their own horses) could change horses, and toll roads which were reasonably well-maintained. Not sure how much of that was duplicated in North America... AnonMoos (talk) 02:44, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

How did they run such a system ? I'm aware that the Pony Express used a similar system, but there the same company owned all the horses. Did they just rent out ("hire") the horses ? This wouldn't work for one-way or extended trips, unless somebody else was willing to ride the horse back. And it seems likely people would tend to abuse rental horses, just as they do rental cars, so they wouldn't last very long. StuRat (talk) 02:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't know all the details, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single centralized company. And the horses were rented out for one specific fairly short "stage" of a journey (from one posting inn to another one within a few hours' travelling time on the route). The whole point of travelling post was to avoid delays that would be necessary if one travelled with one set of horses the whole way, so a more extended rental period would be pointless. Presumably the exchanged horses were rested up for an hour or two, and then were available to be given to travellers going the other way... AnonMoos (talk) 06:23, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

yes, remember that although the human would travel 200 miles, each horse would spend his life going back and forth over the same ten mile stretch. If he had an odd number of journeys in a day hed have to spend the night in a different stable and be sent back home to his owner at the last inn with the first customer in the morning. Amazingly the Russian Empire (under the Tsars I mean) did the same thing with teams of reindeer/horses and boats. You could book a 5,000 mile journey from Siberia to St petersburg and have a new reindeer team/horse/boat ready and waiting for you at each change — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.172.239.226 (talk) 15:52, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

1773, however...  Omg †  osh  00:40, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

According to [21], The fastest service, called the "flying machine," took only a day and a half between Philadelphia and New York during the 1770s, but most intercity travel was difficult: the first regularly scheduled stagecoach route between New York and Boston in 1772 took one week. We have pages on the King's Highway (Charleston to Boston) , Boston Post Road , and Old York Road (the last of which cites a two day stage coach service between Philly and NYC). Sounds like if the wealthy student was willing to pay for the best service, it could be done in about a day. If nothing else, there was a decent road to use. Pfly (talk) 03:43, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I measure about 45 miles from Princeton to New York. Also Princeton is pretty nearly on the route from Philadelphia to New York, which as Pfly said had regular coach service at that time. So I expect it would have been easily done in a day. Looie496 (talk) 03:56, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, if they lacked the post system, even 45 miles is a bit much for one horse in a day. So, the answer seems to be 1 day if they had a post system, 2 days otherwise. StuRat (talk) 22:53, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

March 10

The rights of illegitimate children

I wonder about the legal rights of illegitimate children in 18th century France prior to the French revolution.

I am particularly interested in the legal status of illegitimate children of noblemen/noblewomen, who had been officially acknowledged by their parents. Did an official acknowledgement of the parent mean any change in their legal status? Did they have rights, or was their well being entirely up to the personal choice of their parents?

Considering that the rights were different depending on class in pre revolutionary France, I also wonder if their rights differed depending on of their parents were:

• 1) Father noble and mother commoner;
• 2) mother noble and father commoner;
• 3) both parents noble.

Did their rights differ?

I would be very grateful if someone could be able to help. Thank you very much. --Aciram (talk) 01:20, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Who was the highest ranked servant?

My question is about the staff at a country manor belonging to a French nobleman in 18th century prior to the French revolution. Who would be the highest ranking male, and female servant? In a typical household such as that, who would be the highest ranking servant in the house, with responsible for the entire staff? Would it be a man or a woman, or perhaps one of each? I assume France did not have the same custom as Great Britain.

My question particularly pertains to a manor were the nobleman and his family is often absent, and the responsibility would fall heavily on such a person. I would be grateful if someone could help. Thank you very much. --Aciram (talk) 01:26, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Don't know about 18th-century France specifically, but a general term for a "high" servant who could be responsible for managing a household during the absence of the owner was "steward"... AnonMoos (talk) 06:08, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Try Defining servants in Western Europe (16th - 18th Centuries). Alansplodge (talk) 10:28, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Books about Socialist Party of France

Is there any books in English about the Socialist Party of France? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.23.118 (talk) 03:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Why don't you search google before posting in Wikipedia reference desk? --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 04:16, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Fellows, let's be reasonable, huh? This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed autopsy on a fish... And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock. Anthony J Pintglass (talk) 23:16, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Francophonie Prime Ministers of Belgium

How many Prime Ministers of Belgium were Francophonies? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.23.118 (talk) 04:14, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I think you mean "Francophones"... AnonMoos (talk) 06:04, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

All of them? Do you actually mean "how many Prime Ministers of Belgium were Walloons"? The difference is that (from what I remember) all Belgium schools are supposed to teach Flemish, Walloons and English, but the French-speaking part of Belgium is Wallonia and its inhabitants called Walloons, as is its language. (Note I said "supposed". I am aware that this may not happen everywhere. I have Belgian friends of all persuasions...) --TammyMoet (talk) 09:21, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

See Language in Belgium and Belgian French . 109.170.169.29 (talk) 09:58, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

No, no, no. I mean before Elio di Rupo becoming Prime Minister, who else became Belgium's Francophone PMs? Who were they? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.228.33 (talk) 15:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Let's get this straight then. Do you mean which PMs came from Wallonia and had Walloons as their first language? --TammyMoet (talk) 17:24, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

If you look at our article on him, you will find " (Edmond Jules Isidore Leburton 18 April 1915 in Waremme - 18 June 1997 in Waremme) was a Belgian politician and former Prime Minister. Leburton served as the 42nd Prime Minister of Belgium from January 1973 to April 1974. He was the last native French speaker to hold that office, disregarding the bilingual Paul Vanden Boeynants from Brussels, until Elio di Rupo took office in December 2011." Which helps in determining that you don't need to look later than 1974. I've had a look at those listed in Prime Minister of Belgium up to then, and while it doesn't say precisely, it may be possible to guess. If you need me to spell them out for you let me know and I'll have a go. --TammyMoet (talk) 17:41, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Belgium is a difficult country to understand.

• all Prime Ministers of Belgium were francophone in the sense that they were speaking French but French was the first langage of very few of them.
• at the creation of Belgium, French was the only official language (Flemish and Walloon, talked by the "normal" people were not).
• Walloon is not talked any more in Belgium. All Walloon learn French at school. That is also the reason why this region fits roughly to what was until recently named the French Community. It was renamed Brussels-Wallonia Federation last year.
• Flemish is still spoken in Belgium. It is the most spoken language in term of number of unhabitnats.
• hopefully, Belgian people do not learn French, Flemish and English at school. Note that German is also an official langage in Belgium but not English. People are usually taught in their first langage (Flemish, English or German) and they can learn any other langage later. Of course, a majority of Walloon, who studied in French, then learn Flemish and a majority of Flemish, who studied in Flemish, then learn French.
• Only two Prime Ministers came from the Wallonia and none from the German-speaking community. Most came from the Flemish-speaking community and the Flemish region.

81.247.85.132 (talk) 18:27, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, but my Belgian friend whom I consulted earlier told me he had to learn Flemish first, then French/Walloon and English (he's from Dendermonde) and that all Belgian children learnt these languages. Except in the German enclave, and he didn't know whether they just did German/Flemish or what... He also told me that if you spoke French you could understand and be understood by everyone, if you spoke Flemish you would be understood by everyone, and if you spoke English you would be understood by everyone. If you spoke German everyone would reply in English. As a Belgophile I will bow to the natives every time! --TammyMoet (talk) 19:33, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello,

Your Belgian friend is from the Flemish region. I am from Wallonia.

It is correct that at secondary school (13 -> 18), students learn 3 langages (their first langage and two others). Usually, people choose the other main national langage and then English but that's a choice. That is not mandatory. Personally I chose English and then Flemish, which I forgot because except at Brussels, the other national langages are not usually practiced. Few Flemish speak French and even less Walloons speak Flemish. Walloon is a dead langage. There is nobody any more who speaks this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.247.85.132 (talk) 21:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Documents showing amendments

Does anyone know whether there's a specific name for documents detailing the effect of amendments (or proposed amendments) to legal texts—usually marking deletions with italics, brackets or a strikethrough, and insertions with boldface or underlining (example here)? I have a vague recollection of actually reading a Wikipedia article on them, but I can't remember what they're called and can't find the article again. Any help would be much appreciated! —Alkari (?), 10 March 2012, 06:14 UTC

Are you thinking of revision tracking? That's what Microsoft Word calls it. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:17, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I would go for Codicil. Alansplodge (talk) 09:46, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Hmm... What I have in mind is akin to revision tracking, I suppose, but more specialized—it's a document specifically to illustrate the effect of amendments on a legislative text (bill, statute, constitution etc.). I don't think it's a codicil, since that seems to refer to the amendments themselves; this is rather a copy of the original text with the changes indicated. Thank you for your help, though. —Alkari (?), 10 March 2012, 23:07 UTC

contravarsy about indian national anthem!

what is the truth behind the Indian national anthem? was it made in the honour of king or our motherland? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rp9rocks (talk • contribs) 10:31, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

• We have some explanation about the difference of opinion at Jana Gana Mana (the complete song). MilborneOne (talk) 10:36, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

what is the 100% truth behind Indian national anthem?was it really written in the honour of king?or our motherland? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rp9rocks (talk • contribs) 10:37, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

If you want 100% truth, the only sure answer is "Neither, either, or both". History rarely provides us with 100% certainty on the motives and thoughts of its protagonists. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:47, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Marriage of clerics in medieval times

I'm given to understand that, in the early medieval period, it was permissible for church clerics to marry, so long as they had not been admitted to the minor orders and did not perform the sacramental liturgy. I would like to assert that in an article, but my source is not the greatest and I can't seem to google-fu a better one. I'm surprised we don't have an article, but my searches all come up with bits about the Catholic view of marriage or clerics that performed marriages, so it could well be that I'm using the wrong terms. Specifically, I would like a reliable source that talks about the situation in Europe in roughly the 11th through 13th centuries, but hints about what search terms to use might also be useful. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Matt Deres (talk) 15:37, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I take it that you've found our article Clerical celibacy (Catholic Church)? Some information at Celibacy and the Priesthood, Married Priests From the First Centuries Practiced Celibacy and ON PRIESTLY CELIBACY AND THE PRESENT CRISIS IN ROMAN CATHOLICISM although it's hard to find anything without an agenda. There's quite a detailed essay in the Catholic Encyclopedia: Celibacy of the Clergy - scroll down to "History of clerical celibacy". Alansplodge (talk) 17:33, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Dammit, "celibacy" is the word I should have been searching for all along. Thanks for that. The links provide more context, but I fear they likely wouldn't count as reliable sources (the link for American Catholics seems to be confusing chastity and celibacy for one thing), but the article you linked seems promising. No, I hadn't found that; I was barking up the wrong tree. Thanks for the help! Matt Deres (talk) 20:48, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

We also have a clerical marriage article, but that won't help much with medieval Catholicism. It was always sort of prohibited, as far back as the Council of Elvira, but it never really caught on. The First Lateran Council and Second Lateran Council forbade it in the twelfth century, but since they had to repeat the prohibition numerous times, and it had already been 800 years since it was first prohibited, obviously not much had changed. As a good and very recent source, I would suggest "Clerical Celibacy in the West" by Helen Parish. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:35, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

meditating

I have been reading online about meditating, and I don't understand how to do it. Some say that a person can enter deep meditation within 10 minutes. What do I need to do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.145.71.230 (talk) 21:56, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

There are many methods of entering a meditative state, which are designed to make you stop thinking constantly. I don't understand why you can't find these techniques online, though. What have you tried ? StuRat (talk) 22:50, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Are you talking about online products like books and machines that claim to teach you how to get into deep meditation in 10 minutes? I think what you are talking about sounds a little bit too good to be true. If you want good quality meditation instruction for free, it's probably the easiest to check out online stuff from religious groups. A lot of religious groups really want to get people interested, so there is often a lot of free online materials.

If you choose to go that way, you should first decide what sort of religious group to look for online, but a lot of them have diferent goals. If you tell us what exactly you are trying to get out of meditation, then maybe someone could point you towards a form of meditation that will give you what you want. Rabuve (talk) 23:02, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

But if you go to a religious group to learn meditation, and they offer you Kool-Aid, you might want to pass on that. :-) StuRat (talk) 05:29, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

In this context "deep" is relative and can mean many different things. Ten minutes can be surprisingly long, but is short compared to hours, naturally. As with most practices the more often you do it and the harder you work at it the better you'll get, at least once you have a basic understanding of what to do (and/or what not to do). As StuRat said, there are many methods of meditating. The meditation page has a lot of info and links to more. Pfly (talk) 04:47, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

March 11

Leopold I of Belgium

Was Leopold I of Belgium the only choice to be King of the Belgians? Presumably, if his first wife, Princess Charlotte of Wales had not died, Leopold would not have been considered for the Belgian throne. Who, then, would have been second choice? Was there a list of possibles somewhere? 69.62.243.126 (talk) 00:16, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

It would seem that the Duke of Nemours, son of King Louis-Philippe of France, was the first choice for the position, but was dissuaded from accepting the position by his father. Erasme Louis Surlet de Chokier then served as regent until Leopold I was chosen by the National Congress. More info on this page. I♦A 04:32, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. 69.62.243.126 (talk) 18:52, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Registration in a community

In the UK, we don't really have the concept of registering your place of residence when you move to a new town/city. In theory, you can rent accommodation somewhere and not tell anybody you are there. Of course, if you require services like water/gas/electricity/internet you will need to create accounts so you can pay the providers for those services and eventually a letter will arrive about paying the council tax, unless the landlord includes these as part of your rent. However, I have become aware that in some other countries, new residents in a community are expected to register with the local authorities. For example, in the Netherlands you take your id down to the town/city hall and fill out a lengthy form which includes questions about your birth place, details about your parents, and so on. Do many other countries run a system of community registration, and for what reasons? Astronaut (talk) 12:28, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

China's Hukou system comes to mind. Japan also have a similar system. Unlike other countries where the registration serves a means of community building, the Hukou system is just the tip of the iceberg of the overall government database (Dangan) for population control. 99.245.35.136 (talk) 14:42, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

If you want to vote in the UK, you need to register when you move house. You are also supposed to keep the address on your driver's license up-to-date. --Tango (talk) 16:37, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Largest coin

I read about Euro gold and silver commemorative coins (Austria)#Vienna Philharmonic Coin and in particular the immense size of the €100,000 coin. I this just a large coin (370 mm in diameter, 20 mm thick and over 31 kg in weight), or is it the world's largest coin? Astronaut (talk) 12:56, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Canada had a $1 million gold coin, they used to have one on display at their mint in Winnipeg, but I believe they sold it. Getting beyond that, "coin" can be a debatable term, for example the Yap Island stone rings, and also such things as Swedish plate money.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:16, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

A mere tiddler compared to the Big Nickel listed in the Guinness Book of Records. Whether it will pay for the hernia caused by trying to lift it though, is another matter. --Aspro (talk) 13:45, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Let's qualify this slightly with ... the world's largest coin that is actually still money. Astronaut (talk) 16:11, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Driving in Italy quote

I'm looking for a quote that I read about a decade ago in which someone said that he did not drive in Italy for fear he would not be able to resist running over a priest on the side of the road. I think it was said by an English ex-pat. LShecut2nd (talk) 16:24, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

American (US) ambassadors of Chinese descent/heritage? -- the most recent being Governor Gary Locke, now US Ambassador to China.

Can you help confirm the names of the first American (US) ambassadors of Chinese descent? Per this recent article, it lists the first five as:

Julia Chang Bloch, US Ambassador to Nepal (under President Reagan) Marge Fong Eu, US Ambassador to Micronesia (under President Clinton) Linda Tsao Yang, US Ambassador to the Asian Development Bank (under President Clinton) Curtis S. Chin, US Ambassador to the Asian Development Bank (under Presidents George W Bush and President Obama) Gary Locke, US Ambassador to China (under President Obama)

http://www.nwasianweekly.com/2012/02/former-u-s-ambassador-curtis-s-chin-says-new-year-offers-opportunity-for-apis/

Was President Reagan the first to nominate a US Ambassador of Chinese descent? Can you provide biographical information on all 5 of them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki4info2012 (talk • contribs) 18:18, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

We have articles about some of them - the United States Ambassador to China, United States Ambassador to Nepal, and United States Ambassador to Micronesia, and about Julia Chang Bloch, March Fong Eu, and Gary Locke. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:11, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

best selling authors

Can't seem to find a list of the best selling authors, either world wide or by language. Does such a list exist? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.146.112 (talk) 20:17, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

This list should be a starting point. --178.191.228.164 (talk) 20:34, 11 March 2012 (UTC)