User talk:Brian Josephson: Difference between revisions

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Welcome!

Hello, Brian Josephson, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -- ALoan (Talk) 17:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Psi

Hello, if you are 'the' Brian Josephson, I'd like to personally welcome you to Wikipedia, your insights on parapsychology and psi are really needed here. Very dogmatic sceptics often hijack Wikipedia, so the community here would benefit greatly from an eminent scientist adding solid support for psi. I have just been engaged with a discussion on psi and Dean Radin on my talk page, take a look if you are interested in commenting. Best wishes - Solar 19:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC) PS - I have also been discussing neuroscience and OBE, which might also be of interest.[reply]

Unfortunately, my experience suggests that being an 'eminent scientist' cuts no ice at all in these parts! --Brian Josephson (talk) 13:12, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reincarnation

Sire, in the Beyond belief symposium of 2006 you have been mentioned as a supporter for reincarnation, yet I failed to find any references or quotations that I may use to study it further, from your point of view. Thank you. :)

Curiositly yours --Procrastinating@^talk2me 19:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I guess my attitude is that I put it in the class 'quite likely to be true'. The reason you've not located any references or quotes of mine on the subject is that I've not written anything on it! Brian Josephson 09:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which are some facts that would support the existence of reincarnation?--5.15.46.186 (talk) 19:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, this user page is not a helpline. Try Google Search. --Brian Josephson (talk) 20:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dreadstar RfA

Click there to open your card! → → →

Thanks for your support! I took the easy way out of thanking everyone by ~~stealing~~ borrowing someone else's card design...but know that I sincerely appreciate your support and confidence in me! It is such an honor to have earned your vote, I thank you from the bottom of my heart..it's wonderful to have your support, Professor...! Dreadstar † 09:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Sven Kullander (physicist)

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A tag has been placed on Sven Kullander (physicist) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, a rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Melaen (talk) 13:55, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Purely for record purposes, I note here that this issue was dealt with some time ago (matslewan put in content) -- Brian Josephson (talk) 15:42, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring

You are edit warring at Energy Catalyzer. If you continue to revert the article to your preferred version without establishing a consensus for your changes on the article talk page first, I will ask that your editing privileges be suspended. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:33, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How extraordinary -- I was just about to suggest myself that the issue be resolved on the talk page! However, I differ in one respect. I think most people in physics would judge me more expert in matters of physics than those who have been removing the content (I am Emeritus Professor of Physics at Cambridge University, in case you did not know, and the person whose profile I looked up is a computer scientist, hardly good training for understanding issues of calorimetry. His comment, if I am recalling the right person, clearly demonstrates that he knows little about what is involved), in consequence of which the default should be to keep the content until the issue is resolved on Talk. The whole problem with Wikipedia, as this 'warring' clearly demonstrates, is that amateurs have as much say as experts in determining content. I might add that barring a Nobel prizewinner from editing w'pedia pages would hardly enhance the reputation of w'pedia -- Brian Josephson (talk) 15:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As a Nobel laureate affiliated with a large, well-established, highly-reputable institution, you enjoy access to resources and connections that most scientifically-minded Wikipedia editors can only dream of. If you feel that the Energy Catalyzer is worthy of close investigation and endorsement, then I would encourage you to use those resources to arrange open, honest, and independent tests of Rossi's device in order to answer the multiple serious criticisms it now faces. I look forward to your peer-reviewed publications on the issue.

In the meantime, while I believe that your long experience and accumulated accolades deserve a suitable level of respect, I cannot accept your implicit expectation that your words should carry exceptionally greater weight than those of other editors who have a reasonable measure of scientific training. As an experienced physicist, I am sure that you are aware that expertise (even Nobel Prize-worthy expertise) in some subdisciplines within the field of physics does not imply that an individual will have exceptional skills or qualifications across the entire spectrum of the physical sciences, nor even necessarily across all of physics. The award of a Nobel Prize can allow a scientist significantly more freedom to pursue unusual projects, sheltering them from the potential career damage that a younger or less-established researcher might face. However, this shelter and power of reputation can also have subtle harmful effects on the scientist himself; loosely speaking, I would describe this as the "I'm a Nobel laureate and you're not" problem. Linus Pauling's vitamin C megadosing and Luc Montagnier's homeopathy work represent a couple of examples where the "Nobel Prize halo" inappropriately adds luster to bad science. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:11, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please reconsider this comment. In my opinion it violates WP:NPA, our policy against personal attacks. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:25, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have responded to you on the relevant page, but I will reword the comment. --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:13, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~See Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#Editor_Brian_Josephson_at_Talk:Energy_Catalyzer~~ (out of date) --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:46, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:38, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unsubstantiated allegations and implications

It is not acceptable for you to continue to make (implicitly or explicitly) allegations of a cabal or conspiracy or squad of editors with some vaguely-specified but utterly repugnant conflict of interest. While I realize that you disagree with me about the nature or seriousness of your remarks, I have asked for independent comment at Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts#Unsubstantiated allegations of cabals and conflict of interest by User:Brian Josephson. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:18, 22 April 2011 (UTC) (out of date) --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:48, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sarfatti

Hi Brian, thanks for your comment on the Sarfatti page. I was about to try to find an email address for you (I didn't realize you were a Wikipedian) to ask for your advice. I'm trying to rewrite this, and I was hoping for input from someone knowledgeable in the area to make sure I'm using the right sources and interpreting them correctly.

Would you mind keeping an eye on the article as it develops, and giving me a nudge if I've misunderstood or overlooked something? Any input like that would be much appreciated—bearing in mind that I can only use what has been published, per WP:V and WP:NOR, including material published (and self-published) by Sarfatti himself. SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 16:18, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence and sources

I've observed your interest about Energy Catalyzer, and I have a question: if you really are the Nobel prize Brian Josephson, what does have caused this interest? Why do you think the experiment to be considerable? ^musaz † 14:42, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your query. Back in 1989 I accepted without question the general view that the CF claim was in error. Then several years ago a visitor gave me the 'Fire from Water' video (which you can see on Google Video I believe). This showed what appeared to be ordinary scientists discussing expts. in the usual way. It then, on a basis of a detailed study, seemed to me very likely that the scientific community had made an error.

The next stage was that I was in Boston for a conference, and before setting out I asked the late Gene Mallove if there was any possibility of seeing an expt. in the area while I was there. He arranged for me to visit Mitchell Swartz's lab. He explained how he measured the excess heat (it involved using a resistor as control). This seemed to be pretty straightforward and definitive. I have visited a number of other CF labs since.

So I am 2 steps up on yer average sceptic: (i) I have studied the evidence rather than dismissing it out of hand (ii) I have visited actual labs -- very important as you get pretty limited information if you just read about an expt., and you can ask questions.

Re the Rossi reactor, someone told me about this beforehand as they wanted my advice. Let me summarise by saying the evidence seems pretty convincing so far and overall hard to reconcile with either fraud or error. I have to say I find it pretty shocking the way w'pedia seems to work -- expertise seems to count for nothing, and I suspect that most people after studying what is happening would conclude that certain people are not interested in providing information but only want to exclude anything too positive. The rules surely allow some flexibility but just look at the way they wanted to highlight the failure of the patent application and allow nothing to be included about the positive side. And all this 'dog and pony show' stuff. Dear, dear! But then, I meet stupid people all the time, even scientists -- they will happily trot out clearly invalid arguments to disprove memory of water, ESP, etc. You might like to look at some of my videos/ppts on this, e.g. http://sms.cam.ac.uk/media/664718, Pathological Disbelief --Brian Josephson (talk) 15:42, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the awnser. I asked you that because i'm a student, and I think the experiment is a fraud being impossible to realize nuclear reaction at 800K in a small-volume space. There aro no scientific pubblication explaining what happens in the E-cat, and the inventors affirm not to know about the psysical process involved by the experiment. So I was a bit interested in the scientifical features that suggest you the experiment's validity. Regards, ^musaz † 18:25, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well -- nuclear energies would be enough. If you think it is fraud you need to say (a) how it was done despite the precautions being taken by the investigators, and (b) what would be the point in it, given that Rossi's contracts stipulate that no money changes hands until the buyer is satisfied. --Brian Josephson (talk) 21:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These questions should be awnsered by the inventors, not by me or someone else. The inventor has to explane how does the invention works, and if his argumentations are acceptable i can value the physical meanings of the experiment. Other ways to deal the question are not scientific, because the heat they notice could have been preduced in a lot of fraudolent ways. ^musaz † 14:15, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's a commercial device not a scientific experiment, so different criteria apply. --Brian Josephson (talk) 14:18, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, i asked you because i thought you stated the experiment was a scientific experiment, and i didn't understand how you could have belived in it. In my honest opinion the experiment's fame is not sufficient to justify a wikipedia article, but I really thank you for the awnsers. Regards, ^musaz † 13:50, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is getting distinctly confused so is best terminated at this point. --Brian Josephson (talk) 15:02, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

However, I will just add that it is the invention's promise rather than its fame that justifies its inclusion in w'pedia. But would the 'cabal', or however they would prefer to be called, allow that to be talked about? I suspect not directly -- the cabal can always cook up their reason -- though if you read through the Ny Teknik articles in the references you can probably pick this up. --Brian Josephson (talk) 16:06, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The 'cabal' would allow the experiment to be talked about if the invention's promise became true. If it happens, there will be a lot of authoritative souces that make the experiment a good wp article. ^musaz † 10:17, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously, different people will have different opinions as to what makes an article 'good' and, quite frankly, it seems (to me at least), that a lot of irrelevant arguments are being put forward (quite legitimately in view of w'pedia's rules) by people who don't have the expertise needed to make adequate comment. We'll have to agree to differ on that issue. --Brian Josephson (talk) 15:39, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

With the greatest respect, perhaps it has eluded you that users of Wikipedia have no way to verify the identity of editors. The consequence is that the credibility of content cannot be contingent on the credibility of those editors. Hence we have a hard and fast rule that "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable", as every editor is reminded with every edit. "I'm an expert authority and I say X is true" carries less than zero weight here simply because it demonstrates that the writer understands neither the audience nor the medium. On the other hand, experts who arrives normally bring a ready familiarity with and understanding of the significant publications in their field, so that wp:citing sources is more readily done for them. One area that experts often find troublesome at first is Wikipedia's preference for secondary sources over primary ones. This too comes down to the same cause. Our readers should not be asked to trust that pseudonymous editors are competent to assess the relative merits of primary papers. We instead await (or at least should await) secondary sources to see which results stand the test of time under the publication, peer scrutiny and review processes. Fortunately we have no deadline and can afford to wait for experts to publish reviews or other secondary texts in the subject literature. Regards, LeadSongDog come howl! 18:07, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What a way to run an encyclopedia! But I can't quite see how your remarks are relevant anyway as the references concerned are primarily secondary ones, having been reported in e.g. reputable technical newspapers which have high standards. Mainstream news reporting is generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact (In the talk page, Mats Lewan has made it clear that that is the category in which his articles should be placed). Tilting at windmills? --Brian Josephson (talk) 11:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd challenge, at least in part, the statement that editors are not verifiable as to their character and reliability at least. Looking at the totality of what individual editors do, I think one can build up a pretty good and I would say pretty reliable picture of those editors. Some clearly understand the subject matter while some do not, some seem to make thoughtful contributions to the debate while others seem more interested in the book of rules (and, quite frankly, I think we could do without so many editorial interventions by the latter kind). People whose jobs don't involve much in the way of making judgements of this kind may have more difficulty, of course.

And again, say an editor has a user name like 'Brian Josephson' or 'matslewan', people can look at what the w'pedia person is doing and what the person with the equivalent real name does and decide for themselves if they are the same. Fake writers don't often go without detection for very long; it's not like the world of art.

And I think experienced people, once they have appreciated that W'pedia is not a blog, will quickly pick up the point about needing secondary sources. After all, when one is writing a paper one gives references and is careful about the choices. One does, admittedly, sometimes say 'private communication', but normally only when the person cited has the relevant qualifications so there is some reason for people to trust what they say. And if you say you don't trust experienced people, I have to ask you, why? And if you say you can't make such judgements then I would say, just stay out of it. --Brian Josephson (talk) 17:55, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Running an encyclopedia this way certainly has numerous difficulties, yet openness has also brought substantial results. There are few other venues where so many disciplines intermingle so freely, with experts and near-illiterates contributing in their own ways. (Some even argue that vandalism exerts a constructive force, though on balance that's hard to support.)

In cases such as yours or Mats', where an editor voluntarily chooses to associate an on-wiki account name with their off-wiki identity it is, of course, possible (even simple) to make that association more or less incontravertible. Indeed you have both done that. But Wikipedia is "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit", where that "anyone" includes people who need or wish to protect their off-wiki privacy. It is also written for a worldwide readership with the widest possible range of background knowledge. While one reader will take as true anything he reads from any writer, the next will actually read the cited references to articles. As editors we have to cater to them both, we can't simply say "I trust author Z so you should too." The best articles have been based on tough vetting of sources, but they still cite them. Although someone writing in Phys. Rev. Lett. might be free to omit citations in support of statements which any BSc(Phys) would take as easily established or conventional, we do not have the luxury of leaving verification as an exercise for the reader. We strive to minimize the barriers to readers so far as possible without undue "dumbing down". An intelligent but innocent reader with some diligence should be able to understand what publications back up an assertion. Of course citation has the ancilliary benefit that in the process of reading those sources readers may gain a better understanding of the topic, but that is not the principal reason.

Similarly, we can not assume that a reader of Wikipedia will know how to, or bother to, look behind the covers of the editing process to find out which editor made a specific edit and then assess their credibility. It is intended and accepted that articles are reused by many different republishers, usually without the associated edit history and talkpage content.

Finally, in the all too rare case that an expert editor such as yourself can attend to an article, we want to make it possible for you to efficiently see the sources, so that any errors in representation of those sources within the article can readily be identified, explained, and corrected. We value your time and want it to have the most positive effect possible upon the quality of our collective product. LeadSongDog come howl! 19:59, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed the title of this section to one that I think better reflects its content. In the main I agree with all that you've said, but differ to some extent on matters of detail. One problem is that while I agree with the principle that articles should have suitable backup, a number of editors don't really know which sources can be considered a priori reliable. Take the case of the reports on the reactor. The point of a report as opposed say to an email or a blog is that the person's reputation is behind it -- if there is an error in a report that someone produces it reflects badly on that person in a way that something in a blog doesn't, just because reports are supposed to be carefully considered before they are released. They may still contain errors, of course, but then the same applies to journal articles -- referees will spot obviously dubious papers or obvious errors but some things may not be noticed, and in any case in the case of data this has to be taken on trust (cf. the case of Schon, who got numerous fraudulent papers published before someone spotted something fishy). In the case of the E-cat article, editors who seem to go by unreliable gut feelings rather than knowing what they are doing have tried to get characterised as unreliable sources and thus subject to removal references that add greatly to the value of the article.

Re what readers do, I think it is widely understood that w'pedia can be extemely useful but content should not be taken as necessarily reliable. I suspect that when people want to check on something they have read they will find it hard to judge just seeing where something has been published but will do a search to see how much other sources agree (the Ecat is a special case as for sociological reasons and because of the commercial aspects very little can be found outside the references in the w'pedia article). I agree with your point that readers' background knowledge cannot be assumed and that good references should be given to help such people.

When I wrote, why don't you trust experienced people, I was referring to trust not by readers but by editors. Editors do have a chance to consider the status of other editors and should, where appropriate, be able to trust their judgements. Readers in turn should be trust that the editors have acted appropriately. But do they act appropriately always? Who will vet the vetters, as a Roman said once? ~~I think that if someone uses language such as ????~~ For example, comments that certain editors make in reference to material under discussion make it plainly obvious that attention to detail by the writer concerned was virtually non-existent. --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:02, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

commenting about other editors

here you doubt the intelligence level of people who are opposing your edit. Implying that people oppose your edits because they are not intelligent enough to understand the nuances of your reasoning.

Please use Occam's Razor and consider the following scenario: people do understand your edit, but they are opposing it because it goes against some content policy or content guideline. Some editors will think that it goes against Wikipedia:No original research (concretely WP:SYNTH). Or that this sort of assertion has to be sourced to an outsider of the CF field, possibly to a work about sociology of science or about metrics of information, like the articles by Ackerman, Bettencourt and Simon. Other editors might not agree about the relative significance of the rise. Some other editors will point at WP:RECENTISM and demand sources that lag a few years/months behind the facts in order to get perspective, etc. Several editors have given you reasons for opposing your edits. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:34, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Enric, I don't think 'no original research' is a credible reason for opposing my latest edit. A key question is whether the editor who said it was OR had looked at the Britz plot? If not, he would be guilty of BD (blind deletion). I'll post the plot if there's a mechanism for doing this so that all can see the point. --Brian Josephson (talk) 08:56, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

According to wikipedia policy [[1]], comments "should be directed at content and actions rather than people." Please do not comment about the lack of intelligence of editors. Olorinish (talk) 01:26, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, I'll check it out and amend it. --Brian Josephson (talk) 08:54, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edit war over cold fusion

Dear professor,

I understand your point:

These surveys do not however take into account recent publication history. The Britz survey [2], which includes more recent data, showed 'a subsequent rise' in recent years rather than continuing decline, contradicting the 'pathological science' ascription.

But I think your statement is better suited to the talk page than to the article itself. You seem to be trying to convince your fellow contributors, than describing a viewpoint. --Uncle Ed (talk) 04:12, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

New Energy Times report on the Rossi 'Energy Catalyzer'

Professor Josephson, I don't know whether you have as yet seen the New Energy Times report on the Rossi 'Energy Catalyzer'? [3] It seems somewhat damning, and I'd like to hear your opinion regarding the validity of the science-based arguments therein. Can I ask in particular whether you think that the diagrams "Conceptual Diagram of Correct Way to Measure Energy Balance" and "Conceptual Diagram of Incorrect Way to Measure Energy Balance" are valid criticisms of the tests previously done on the 'Cat'?

There are other matters regarding Rossi etc in the report which also seem to indicate a less-than-transparent approach (e.g. his 'factory' on the 5th floor of a Miami Beach apartment block), but that is rather by-the-by if the 'Cat' turns out to be nothing more than a way of heating water by mains electricity, as the NET article seems to imply - except for anyone who may have invested in the device... AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:22, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Things are never as simple as they seem, especially when the 'Black Knight' is involved (see below), but I accept there may be problems with some of the measurements. In any event, I am in contact with the people who will be testing the 1MW device and am confident that they at least will use a rigorous measurement technique. The 'Black Knight' who runs the web site is not renowned for his interest in accuracy -- he has made two inaccurate statements about me in the past (a claim that I organised a lecture because I had a financial interest in the company owned by the lecturer, and a claim that I had used a Bushnell quote out of context) and, much more seriously, refused to make a correction or even allow comment. In the latter case, he even removed the comment facility I had used to try to set the Bushnell situation straight.

Incidentally, Rossi claims the device continues to generate heat even when there is no energy input. If this statement is correct, then the reactor is a genuine device though it may not generate as much heat as has been suggested. All this should become clear when the rigorous test is carried out.--Brian Josephson (talk) 08:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'd perhaps best not comment on the animosity between Steven Krivit and yourself, though it does put the NET article in a rather different light. As you say, the important thing is going to be the results from rigorous tests, and I look forward to seeing these - assuming that the apparent breakup between Rossi and Defkalion doesn't delay things further. This split seems to leave several questions unanswered - notably the disparity between what Defkalion had claimed to be doing, and what Rossi has said regarding the information he disclosed to Defkalion. All rather odd, but perhaps things will become clearer in the next few days. The again, perhaps not... AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:06, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Defkalion

I notice that the agreement between Defkalion and Rossi is at an end. I also noticed that, according to Daniele Passerini's blog, you will be present at the USA test of the 1MW plant... could you please confirm? 94.170.239.207 (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not at all keen on travelling and will be happy to read the reports! By the way, I'll 'reject' your YouTube comment as it seems to me it was basically just a communication to myself. YouTube does have a mechanism you can use to contact people directly (and I get notified by email when this has happened) (unless of course you are the user I blocked eventually because a pointless discussion had arisen and I did not wish to waste further time with that person, in which case it would not have got through to me).

I should add that I'm planning to add a comment on the Defkalion situation to the YouTube video as no doubt a lot of people will be wondering about this.--Brian Josephson (talk) 08:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response; I've not had any pointless discussion with you (yet :), so yes I will use the other mechanism if needed. 94.170.239.207 (talk) 18:11, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I deleted that comment as I was able to check who I had barred and saw that it was a different person. --Brian Josephson (talk) 20:10, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Elizabeth Rauscher

Hi Brian, there's currently an attempt to have the above deleted as non-notable. I've been doing some reading in an effort to expand it to avoid deletion, and I found a photograph of you and Dr Rauscher in the 1970s at a conference in Spain (p. 173 of David Kaiser's new book). I therefore wondered if you'd be willing to glance at the article and comment at the AfD. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elizabeth Rauscher (2nd nomination). No worries if you'd rather not. SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 07:34, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've put in a comment. That must have been the Cordoba conference 'Science et Conscience'. --Brian Josephson (talk) 11:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comment. I'm sorry to bother you with this again, but some of the editors who wanted to see the article deleted are now objecting to its contents, specifically the lead and first sentence.

The first sentence currently says: "Elizabeth A. Rauscher is an American physicist with an interest in parapsychology."

One editor wants to change this to: "Elizabeth A. Rauscher" is an American physicist and parapsychologist."

Another suggested: "Elizabeth A. Rauscher is an American physicist and paranormal researcher." [4]

Or "Elizabeth A. Rauscher is a former physics researcher ..." [5]

Of the first two options (currently being discussed here), would you say it's more accurate to say "physicist with an interest in parapsychology" or "physicist and parapsychologist"? SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 23:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The 2nd seems better to me in view of the fact that parapsychology looks like a pretty significant interest of hers. From the refs. it looks as if she started as a physicist and then moved into parapsychology. BTW, the Targ w'pedia article has something later by her but there's no link so it is unclear how it is related to the one in her own article. --Brian Josephson (talk) 11:16, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll just add that 'parapsychologist' seems to me a more neutral term than 'paranormal researcher'. After all, we don't say 'chemical researcher', do we? Using an adjective has its own confusing connotations, the way 'historical researcher' suggests perhaps a researcher of the past, while 'historian', by virtue of being a technical term, makes it quite clear that the reference is to someone doing history.

E-Cat suggestion

Hello Prof. Josephson. According to some, you have agreed to participate in a 12 hour examination of the E-Cat on October 6. I just wanted to drop you a message to suggest an obvious idea. If time constraints eliminate the possibility of a control experiment, venting the hydrogen during the last part of the test and observing the effect on output could be an excellent compromise. Previous tests have not held the other test variables constant after venting. Thank you for your hard work and dedication to true critical thinking. Enslaved robot boy (talk) 18:22, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently the rumor was false, sorry to disturb you. Enslaved robot boy (talk) 19:41, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nuclear reactor

Hello Prof. Josephson! Could the E-Cat be considered (reliably sourced) a nuclear reactor? Some people disagree! Please share your thought at Talk:Nuclear_reactor#Energy_Catalyzer.--79.119.214.15 (talk) 09:35, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia

Welcome to Wikipedia. I hope you are not put off by the somewhat less than warm welcome or are shocked by the very hard uncompromising positions of some. This place is not so bad compared with my early experience in the work-place where I was seated between one man on my left who was a holocaust denier while on my right sat a man who had fought his way across Europe and was among the first to enter a newly discovered death camp. It made for interesting times.

The truth will out eventually. But in the meantime I must say it is a shame that people with real insights are pushed to one side. We can always hope that reasonable words will win out eventually. In the meantime there is a small cadre of those who have learned to quote the rules, spout invective, and generally poison the waters until the more moderate editors leave, then they can rule the roost. They have learned to game the system and the system really is not too interested in pulling them into line or throwing them out for fear of being labeled tyrants.

One rotten apple can in fact spoil the whole barrel or in the parlance of a manufacturing engineer: the 0.01% of miss-manufactured parts if allowed to enter the assembly cause 99.99% of the trouble. I suspect much the same is true of human populations, large and small. Only a small percentage of career criminals commit the majority of crimes and only a small number of irritating people can spoil the atmosphere on Wikipedia.

I wait each day for the next shoe to drop W.R.T. the E-Cat. It’s invention may be a harbinger of truly dramatic changes. We live in interesting and hopefully better times. Zedshort (talk) 04:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A We the People Petition

I have created a “We The People Petition” for the review of the E-Cat by the White House that you can sign by going here: http://wh.gov/j3P

I suppose only U.S. citizens can sign the petition but maybe you can spread the word. Zedshort (talk) 02:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A petition asking Rossi to allow his E-Cat to be properly independently tested would be a darned sight more useful... AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:59, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Defkalion appear to be doing this at least. Mats Lewan (see bit.ly/CFteknik) has reported on the involvement of the Greek govt., though so far only safety checks have been done. --Brian Josephson (talk) 09:20, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

:Energy Catalyzer - your open letter to Rossi etc

Professor Josephson, given that Talk:Energy_Catalyzer#UK_Department_of_Energy_and_Climate_Change.2C_Josephson.27s_open_letter_to_Rossi. relates to you, I wondered if you would have any comments? Thanks. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:13, 25 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The people who edit and discuss this page are beyond the pale as far as I am concerned and I'm not going to waste my time on this (I found out about your comment because I logged in to comment on a conventional article on maths and saw an alert). The US military seem satisfied enough to have ordered more than a dozen reactors, and soon the second buyer, who is not as coy about his identity as the defence people, will probably be giving a favourable report. If and when that happens all this critical stuff will miraculously disappear. If of course that doesn't happen then you people will be having a field day. C'est la vie! --Brian Josephson (talk) 21:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"If and when that happens...". Yup. "If" - as the Spartans once replied to Philip II of Macedon: [6] Thanks for the response, anyway, and have a happy whatever-you-celebrate-(if-anything)-at-this-time-of-year. Maybe by this time next year everyone will be roasting marshmallows over a red-hot E-Cat, though no doubt I'll be restricted to a diet of Brussels-sprout and stale-bread sandwiches for being so wrong... AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:54, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Charming! --Brian Josephson (talk) 22:36, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Henry Stapp

Hi Brian, sorry to be so slow to respond to your note on my talk page. Just to say you're welcome (re: getting rid of the non-notable template). Glad to be of help. SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 22:47, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A bit of humour for you

The E-Cat event and the seemingly interminable waiting drove me near to madness and so I was compelled to seek for humour and condense it into a play: Waiting for E-Cat. http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/2012/03/waiting-for-e-cat.html

I hope it gives you a laugh. Everyone is skewered but no one dies. There is time enough until the end of the year and no doubt more events to come so I have no doubt I will have material for a third act.Zedshort (talk) 16:33, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is currently anticipated is the e-cat factory swinging into larger scale production, and patents being granted in due course, all of which take time. Just like any new technology, in fact! --Brian Josephson (talk) 16:54, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide an estimated time frame for when you would be surprised if it wasn't available? A month? 6 months? a year? IRWolfie- (talk) 23:15, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

People who are familiar with the trials of bringing an invention to market say these things are unpredictable, so I will not venture an estimate. Perhaps you should consult a psychic. --Brian Josephson (talk) 09:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are in a better position than I to recommend someone with good psychic ability, no? :) IRWolfie- (talk) 22:08, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, you're on your own here. I must get on now so responses may be limited for a while. --80.3.229.12 (talk) 22:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, cheers, IRWolfie- (talk) 22:19, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Before people write in to object, the remark concerning psychics above was a joke. As regards times, there is an assertion at http://pesn.com/2012/09/11/9602180_2012_E-Cat_Conference_Report--1_MW_E-Cat_Ready/ that "Within a couple of months, a 1 MW unit is supposed to be installed in Northern Italy that will be able to be inspected by potential buyers." --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How much weight do you, personally, give that assertion? IRWolfie- (talk) 21:31, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I, personally, prefer to wait rather than to weight. --80.3.229.12 (talk) 21:45, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No E-Cats yet, IRWolfie- (talk) 10:24, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

see http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791&cpage=3#comment-663403 for latest developments. --Brian Josephson (talk) 12:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Who are they? IRWolfie- (talk) 12:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No doubt when (if) they publish they'll reveal their identities! Brian Josephson (talk) 12:50, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And if these purported experts never publish and are never disclosed, what will you conclude? IRWolfie- (talk) 14:29, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems the purported independent experts where in fact Levi et al (Levi has had a long association with Rossi, if I recall correctly didn't Bologna University sign an agreement with Rossi for a time?), and they still didn't have independent access to the machine, IRWolfie- (talk) 09:39, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Superconductors′ electrochemistry

Hello Prof Josephson!

Do you happen to know if there are some achievements in this field?--82.137.11.181 (talk) 14:20, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A superconductor is a region of constant chemical potential, so it is not clear that anything of interest can happen here! --Brian Josephson (talk) 16:57, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the question implied an interface between a superconductor and an electrolyte.--188.26.22.131 (talk) 17:32, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This context raises a question concerning the existence of superconducting electrolyte.--188.26.22.131 (talk) 17:36, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll leave it to the experts, I'm not working in this area at this time. --Brian Josephson (talk) 17:47, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know some experts who might have adressed this topic in some works, perhaps among them John Bockris?--188.26.22.131 (talk) 09:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Josephson effect - request

Hello Professor Josephson!

Could you add more details concerning the derivation of the equations at Josephson effect?--188.27.247.229 (talk) 08:04, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm ... W'pedia doesn't think highly of people who know what they are talking about, and experts tend not to have much spare time anyway. If you were thinking of editing the article yourself, I could draw your attention to the fact that the calculation was based on one by Cohen Falicov and Phillips that was referenced in the paper, but included the influence of the phase that is present on account of broken symmetry (the article on that is not very good however). There seems not to be a link to my Nobel lecture, which would be helpful and more so than the Nobel link that is there. You need to find someone with both time and knowledge to make it a proper account! --Brian Josephson (talk) 09:52, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since I wrote the above, our college library has scanned my Trinity College fellowship dissertation of 1962 (NB not my 1964 Ph.D. thesis for the University), and you can see it at http://www.dspace.cam.ac.uk/handle/1810/243916. This goes into the logic in much detail. --Brian Josephson (talk) 09:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The readers of wpedia thank you for the availability of this link. 82.79.26.145 (talk) 15:29, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia loves people who know what they are talking about, but not those who assert as fact views that are out of line with the scientific consensus. We also recommend those who are directly involved with a subject to propose edits on the discussion page to avoid any potential reputational damage due to perceived conflicts of interest. Guy (Help!) 20:59, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I normally do, so what inspired you to write that? --Brian Josephson (talk) 21:25, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Guardian wins the race

Cold fusion generally (not the E-cat) has suffered from a vicious circle where a false account of CF is endlessly recycled and never corrected since the real situation is blocked from view by editors unduly influenced by the false account. The Guardian has bucked the trend by publishing my obituary of Martin Fleischmann based on a wider perspective; contrast this with the presumptive review in Nature by Philip Ball. Ball's full text is available only to subscribers but his conclusion will indicate his misguided main theme: "... once you have been proved right against the odds, it becomes harder to accept the possibility of error. To make a mistake or a premature claim, even to fall prey to self-deception, is a risk any scientist runs. The test is how one deals with it."

The Obituaries Editor Robert White is to be congratulated on this: when I sent him some text first he said they were already planning an obituary and suggested I send in my piece as a comment. But he began to recognise that there was an important story here and suggested I send in modified text based on their traditional format. The final result was a collaborative effort by the two of us (plus some advisers who supplied additional detail). --Brian Josephson (talk) 09:50, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can add to this account the fact that Nature published a letter from me correcting the aforementioned typically misleading obituary by Philip Ball.--Brian Josephson (talk) 17:19, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A very good friend of mine was in Fleischmann's lab at Southampton during the cold fusion debacle and actually played a part in running some of the experiments. He is a full professor at an English university now, with an extensive list of publications and patents. I asked him about the article, he considers the version that we Featured some years back to be accurate, balanced and entirely fair. Guy (Help!) 21:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There could well have been a time when it was thus. But that was yesterday, and yesterday's gone (with thanks to whoever it was who wrote that originally!) --Brian Josephson (talk) 21:23, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I showed him the Featured version about two or three years ago. What has materially changed in the last two or three years? Other than us having to ban a few True Believers... Guy (Help!) 12:06, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I had a look at one from early 2011 and it looks like I was wrong -- things were just as bad then. By way of clarification, have a look at the letter by me that Nature (more open-minded than w'pedia, clearly!) published, and show it to your friend too. That letter explains how most scientists got misled in various ways into erroneously dismissing cold fusion, and misled into characterising the w'pedia article as being, and I quote: "accurate, balanced and entirely fair". Still, one can't blame busy people for just accepting the general belief and passing it on to keep it going, rather than taking the the practical approach as I have, of not only studying what has been done in this area but also visiting a number of CF labs to acquaint myself with what has been going on.

You might also find it of interest the views of Robert Duncan, vice-chancellor of research at the University of Missouri. --Brian Josephson (talk) 14:52, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation to comments

Come join us on talk:Cold fusion. I've posted all sorts of proposals, It would be great to have your opinion about these.

Thanks! --Brian Josephson (talk) 19:21, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Your quote from Nature

Hello, Prof Josephson! On talk:Cold fusion I expressed the view that your quote to Nature must be included in the article. I'd insert it myself but it seems that unregistered users are prohibited to edit the article thus creating discrimination towards unregistered users.--5.15.205.101 (talk) 19:56, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Useless suggestion! Don't imagine such a change would last for more than a moment!--Brian Josephson (talk) 19:18, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

After my most recent comments regarding the source, no one has posted any objections. It seems that the consensus for inclusion is formed. I could register as I explained in the section with unlocking request and insert the citation in the article. Then we could see who makes a misconceived revert against the consensus.--5.15.200.238 (talk) 17:48, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation

Hello! As there is a Wikipedia article about you, you are cordially invited to contribute a short audio recoding of your spoken voice, so that our readers may know what you sound like and how you pronounce your name. Details of how to do so, and examples, are at Wikipedia:Voice intro project. Please feel free to ask for help or clarification on the project talk page, or my talk page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:01, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Doubtful reasoning against CF

Prof Josephson, how do you regard (the validity of) Huizenga's reasoning against cold fusion by appeal to a supposed Nernst equation missinterpretation by F&P?--5.15.200.238 (talk) 17:41, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, can't comment, as I've never heard of this before. I see you have to read the book to find out what was said. I wonder what makes a book a reliable source? I'd have thought that H., being a high-energy/nuclear physicist, might well have been writing outside his 'area of expertise'.--Brian Josephson (talk) 18:17, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As a nuclear physical chemist Huizenga (having received 2 awards in nuclear chemistry as pointed out by Google search) may have considered that he was entitled to suppose that some missinterpretation of a basic electrochemical concept like the equation mentioned must have occured to F&P because their results deviate considerably from the common knowledge about nuclear processes. This is somewhat similar to the common knowledge in geophysics when Wegener formulated his hypothesis on continetal drift. Similarly today the exact conditions of occurence of CF phenomena are not known exactly compared to the nuclear fission where it is known that the neutron flux holds the main role in sustaining nuclear fission chain reaction.

Concerning the established fields of expertise it is naturally that when new experimental facts appear which do not fit exactly in established fields of expertise some experts are inclined to disconsider facts as anomalous based on the established lines of reasoning instead of a rigourous application of the scientific method. The labelling pathological science is due to Huizenga based on the omission of statistical aspects in his conception of reproducibility. New experimental anomalous facts may require emergent fields like nuclear electrochemistry or nuclear solid state physics which draw from more established field like nuclear chemistry and physics.

The lack (yet) of a wikiarticle for Huizenga seems surprising considering his involvement in the development of the field.

It is unfortunate that the teaching of (established) sciences does not delve much into the character of the making of experimental science, which as you've mentioned, is much like the production of industrial goods. The key aspect which is defficient is a better structuring of knowledge required for a rigourous application of the scientific method. It seems that the necessity of exercising the scientific method is insufficiently considered or completely ignored in the process of training the specialists.--5.15.177.40 (talk) 15:00, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

John Adkins and I 'proved' experimentally that the supercurrents I had predicted didn't in fact exist, or at least if they did exist they were orders of magnitude less than the prediction. They do exist of course, but for a rather subtle reason discovered by Anderson they were unobservable under the particular conditions of the expt. There's a moral there for cold fusion deniers perhaps.--Brian Josephson (talk) 20:31, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed it should be. But is seems that regarding CF on w'pedia some sources (Huizenga-like, the deniers) are considered by some to be reliable by default, while others (Josephson-like, etc) are questioned instantly. How is this situation that Huizenga's reasonings should have more wp:weight than Josephson's? On what grounds? Is Huizenga more entitled to wikiprominence than Josephson?--5.15.179.120 (talk) 19:33, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Prof Josephson, given the context of the most recent discussions you've been part of, to what extent (if any) do you consider that wikiconsiderations like mainstream and fringe positions apply in the case of cold fusion article?--5.15.194.246 (talk) 17:59, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the situation could be summarised by saying it is pretty well mainstream by now but most scientists go round wearing blinkers and haven't noticed. Of course the fact that people still go on referring to it as if it is all an error has something to do with it. --Brian Josephson (talk) 11:04, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free media (File:Defkalion demo display of power info.png)

Thanks for uploading File:Defkalion demo display of power info.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Werieth (talk) 15:58, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing out the problem. I used the screengrab concerned in the discussion at Talk:Cold Fusion but it seems to have disappeared, so I've put it back. It is difficult to make the point I was making without actually showing the display I was referrring to. --Brian Josephson (talk) 16:19, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Original research

Hello. Wikipedia's policies do not permit novel synthesis (or original research). Your recent edits to cold fusion include such material. Please also be advised that this article is under general sanctions due to past whitewashing and other problematic activities by advocates. If you are the Brian Josephson then you may well be considered as having a material conflict of interest; either way I recommend you discuss proposed edits on the article's discussion page as most of your edits are being rapidly reverted as violating policies and guidelines. Guy (Help!) 20:57, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the courts, a key test is, what would a reasonable person conclude? I doubt if a reasonable person who had studied the w'pedia page on novel synthesis would think it reasonable to invoke it to throw out my edit. This is a nice example of tendentious editing. --Brian Josephson (talk) 22:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To amplify this point for the benefit of people who don't know the details: the cold fusion article has a paragraph related to the fact that people had difficulty reproducing the claims of Fleischmann and Pons. I added a highly relevant fact (including citing an appropriate reference), that the behaviour of materials is often not reproducible, something that would reduce the significance of people not being able to reproduce the F-P claims (and which is probably responsible for some of the failures, though many failures were simply the result of people not getting the conditions right). I also indicated that the previous comments did not take materials irreproducibility into account (I hadn't in fact checked this and would have withdrawn the comment if someone had been able to challenge it, but it is my assumption that if they had taken it into account they would not have drawn the conclusions cited). I submit that a reasonable person would have said 'good point' and considered it a good addition to the article. Instead we have editors set on their PoV quoting the rules as an excuse for removing the comment, no doubt glowing in self-satisfaction as they did so. --Brian Josephson (talk) 07:46, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you are best placed to judge how an independent person might view your edits (none of us is, after all). Several experienced Wikipedians appear to have independently reached the conclusion that your edits are problematic, so it is probably best to simply propose changes on the talk pages for discussion and avoid drama. In any case, it reads to me as special pleading, and there is an extensive history of that kind of issue with this specific article. The standard on Wikipedia is verifiability not truth; it is verifiably the case that the overwhelming view of science as expressed in several reviews not least by the US Department of Energy, places cold fusion in the realm of pathological science. Guy (Help!) 12:04, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

DoE report

If you think the DoE characterised CF as pathological science, you are seriously misleading yourself. Look at the actual report (the second one especially), rather than going by second-hand reports on it. If I recall correctly, a large proportion of the independent committee felt there was good evidence for excess heat, hardly 'pathological science'. I cannot emphasise too highly the importance of going to the source, and hope you will look seriously into the subject.

Further, I don't think my colleagues, and people who have talked with me, would dismiss me as being unable to be objective (as you appear to be doing), and as a professional scientist I feel rather insulted by the suggestion. Perhaps it is rather your own lack of objectivity that needs to be looked into instead. --Brian Josephson (talk) 21:18, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You may well reply in response to this that there are other professionals, including your friend, who have come to the opposite conclusions to myself, and we cannot both be right. Indeed that is so. However, in the CF community it is well known that misconceptions and fallacious arguments are rife in the scientific community as a whole, and that is a very significant point. Those who have studied the issues in depth have more right to be taken seriously than those who have not. --Brian Josephson (talk) 21:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, the DoE characterised it as not supported by the best evidence. Commentators (e.g. Bob Park) characterised it as pathological science, and that is well supported. The issue is not whether individuals have come to one view or another, but the scientific consensus. Which is, t put it mildly, uncharitable towards cold fusion. The "CF community" are ignorable. Wikipedia's job is to document things, not to Right Great Wrongs. Guy (Help!) 23:17, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm hardly surprised to see a gross oversimplification here. What this oversimplification fails to mention is the fact that fully half of the reviewers believed there was convincing evidence for excess heat:

Evaluations by the reviewers ranged from: 1) evidence for excess power is compelling, to 2) there is no convincing evidence that excess power is produced when integrated over the life of an experiment. The reviewers were split approximately evenly on this topic. Those reviewers who accepted the production of excess power typically suggest that the effect seen often, and under some understood conditions, is compelling.

As you say, 'Wikipedia's job is to document things', and in the light of that fact the quote above, which seems to me to be extremely notable given the credibility of the source, and which serves to discredit your PoV and that of many other hostile editors, should certainly be in the article to correct any unbalanced impression that might be obtained from the selective quote currently there. I trust you would not object to its inclusion? --Brian Josephson (talk) 08:57, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll just add that what the reviewers felt was not well supported was the claim of a nuclear reaction, which is more difficult to establish than excess heat as the reaction products corresponding to the excess heat are present in quantities that are difficult to detect. The two should not be confused; failure to establish one claim conclusively does not discredit the other. --Brian Josephson (talk) 09:44, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image reply

Hi Dr. Josephson, I think I may have forgotten to reply to a message you left me a few weeks ago. I think what happened was a non-free image was only being used on a talk page, and copyrighted images have to be used in an article by policy. I used a script to bulk delete all the non-free images that hadn't been in an article for one week, and part of the script's function is to add the "commented out" notice around images. It doesn't make as much sense to hide the link in this case, but I'm glad to see you were able to replace it with an external link. Thanks for your contributions, Mark Arsten (talk) 23:10, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK, fine!--Brian Josephson (talk) 10:15, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The World is Watching!

Interesting article here from MIT Technology Review, on The Decline of Wikipedia. The main thrust of the article itself is that the decline in number of editors is leading to a loss in quality. But it is the comments that really get to the point; here for example is a contribution by one Le_comment:

If there were a movie of Wikipedia editing, it would look something like "The Road Warrior". Since no one was in charge, roving gangs formed to impose their edits and bully anyone who got in their way - with a focus on suppressing women. The rules became so arcane that they could only be used (selectively) to win a "wiki war": the winner would always be who knew the minutia of wiki rules and where the hidden dust bins were, not who had made the right edit. The NPOV tag was horribly abused by self-aggrandizing (male) wiki-weenies who scored ego points by imposing their own point of view as transcendentally neutral. ...

And again from ZimbaZumba:

Wikipedia is Orwell's Animal Farm in real life. Wikipedia started as an optimistic, open and free entity. With time some animals became more equal than others and it spiraled into a hierarchical and dictatorial dystopia, just as Orwell would have predicted.

The comments as a whole really make it clear to readers the way some very dubious editing practices by fanatics are impinging on the value of the encyclopedia.

And now from indio007:

The administration of wikipedia is replete with double standards, arbitrary rules enforcement and little men. Politically sensitive topics , usually involving the government and any facet of criminal justice, are manipulated with a fervor reminiscent of OCD.

While again mkschreder has said:

The last two times that I have tried contributing to wikipedia, I was met with a dick admin that deleted my articles with an attitude as though my articles were against his own opinion on things. HELLO! wikipedia was supposed to be free. Where is the voting system where 1000 votes would be needed to say that some piece of information is false? Where is the system where each paragraph can be voted by the users to be as true or false? It's this arbitrary reversion and deletion of people's content that they have spent their time contributing without getting any pay is what conditions people around the world to never contribute anything to wikipedia ever again.

... just to let the editors who manipulate pages such as that for Cold Fusion see how their efforts are seen by the outside world. --Brian Josephson (talk) 15:55, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A new one just in:

BarryG said:

kww Bahnfrend I'm sure there are political and science denier nutters out there who need a ton of editing, but there's also guardians over various topics that keep out changes they don't like and they win by being more anal/have more time to waste. I've contributed mostly to technical topics, often trying to give an additional alternative, easier explanation or a "gist" to an area or at least how something is actually computed in practice (and discrete computers often technically violate a theory done in terms of continuous space). Anyhow, I've had these edited away as technically mathematically incorrect or mostly it's just erased w/o comment. I've given up and so a lot of arcane technical stuff remains correct but unreadable to most even though I left the rigor and just provide an intuitive understanding below.

--Brian Josephson (talk) 11:03, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They just keep coming, these comments from people who have seen what is happening:

kroyall said:

Wikipedia is a product of the true believers who have the time and patience to see to it the site reflects their version of events ... etc.

gustnado responded:

kroyall You are absolutely right about areas of controversy. I learned that the hard way trying to correct a history of an event I was present at. ... etc.

and then Smink:

bowlweevils You are typical of the type of person who should be motivated to voluntarily share knowledge in some non-profit broad-based project. People like you who manage to overcome the wikimarkup barrier quickly encounter a group of immature (mostly teen-age) admins who will torture and abuse you until you flee. The other type of contributor is the paid editor/PR agent, who puts up with the admin abuse, for money. The end result of the wikitext barrier, the immature admin corps and the paid editors is a conversion of what was once an interesting collaboration into a mess with a lot of point of view bias and highly unreliable information.

--Brian Josephson (talk) 11:45, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

followed later by this from the same person:

The point is that the Wiki-pros play their little game to win. One of their popular techniques is to "ban" people who disagree with them or who call them out. So, we have a group of admins (many of whom are teenagers) who have adopted the goal of "banning" editors who question their tactics (many of whom are subject-matter experts.) The result is a long-term trend away from building a valuable reference work toward a site where wiki-warfare predominates.

--Brian Josephson (talk) 22:16, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are any number of people who have criticized Wikipedia after being unable to get their point of view "properly" displayed, either because it is not appropriate for Wikipedia, or they are unable to present their view as being from reliable sources. (Few people want to be thought of as "unreliable", even though many subject-matter experts may be, unless published.) — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:00, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That may give them a motive for criticising w'pedia, but does not mean they are wrong to do so. And 'unreliability' as defined by wikipedia is just a bit of w'pedia jargon, and in all probability the people involved in the above quotes are reliable in the usual sense of the term. --Brian Josephson (talk) 09:32, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, IMO, some of the criticism is justified, although many subject-matter experts are incapable of accepting the fact that they could be wrong or that their view may not be "mainstream" (or may even be "fringe") in their field. (I know this from real life, rather than from Wikipedia.) :::As in the mainstream media, Wikipedia's editors are generally left of center (in their respective countries), and the content of political articles follow.

However, "mkschreder"'s comments show a lack of understanding of what Wikipedia is or could be, and "BarryG" attacks a question on the purpose of Wikipedia. "BarryG" probably should be editing WikiBooks rather than Wikipedia, although it may have its own problems. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:12, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your comments to quite some extent. The difficulty is that one can't have a real discussion with the editors to find out what's really behind what they are doing. Some I think one has to assume are only interested in 'policing' articles to keep out views they don't like, while others are uncertain what to think and fall back to the 'fail safe' position of the rules. Whatever the motives may be, it is not possible, in my experience, to have a meaningful discussion on the talk pages on controversial topics because of the way the wikipedia 'gangs' or cabals take over. --Brian Josephson (talk) 18:14, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

--Brian Josephson (talk) 17:49, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As for Cold Fusion, I've read a number of the references you've suggested, and most either do not support the statements or represent fringe views—enough so that I no longer check the rest of them. My apologies, but "WP:AGF is not a suicide pact". You have to admit that your views are considered "fringe" by some of your colleagues. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:18, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think my colleagues use terms such as 'fringe', so perhaps you should rephrase that comment so we can understand what the claim is. I'm having problems discovering what references I have given and what the context was, as many of them seem to have been 'disappeared'. In any case, there seems to be some circularity in what you say, if you are going to say 'paper X supports CF, so it is 'fringe', so I can ignore it. Under such conditions, how would it be possible to take it seriously even if there is good evidence? --Brian Josephson (talk) 18:31, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dean Radin

you are a notable defender of Radin. His article has recently become rather antagonistic to him. There is a section of the talk page that concerns your arguments - it would be ideal for you to contribute to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dean_Radin#Brian_Josephson

There is also an interesting article that has some statistics and corroborating examples that you might like to use - you might also find it of interest for philosophical reasons: http://www.explorejournal.com/article/S1550-8307%2812%2900219-4/fulltext

I have done what I could in this case, and contributed what I am willing to contribute - the ball is in your court. For obvious reasons, you may want to extend the defense you made many years ago to a defense in talk section of, and corresponding edits to the wikipedia page, lest it be unnecessarily antagonistic.98.210.147.182 (talk) 00:09, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your efforts, but really, you are wasting your time trying to fight the cabal, or 'Guerrilla Skeptics' as they like to call themselves. You might be interested to watch their instructional video on 'how to impose your own PoV on to a wikipedia page' (that's not its official title, but that's what it's all about. By the way, I've archived the video just in case it should disappear). --Brian Josephson (talk) 15:59, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps a better name would be Skepto-Inquisition.--86.125.176.38 (talk) 18:44, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting to notice this ′charming′ link. It is also very amusing their claim about helping ″the public have a better understanding of science and critical thinking″.--82.137.12.87 (talk) 21:15, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aneutronic fission

Prof Josephson, I've noticed your posts at Talk:Cold fusion. I was wondering in the context of this topic what is known concerning the possible triggering of the conventional fission of uranium by other factors than neutron flux, perhaps a flux of protons, deuterons or alpha particles? Could the flux of protons and deuterons act not only in gas phase from accelerators, but also in electrolytic environments of say uranium salts subjected to a perturbation like an alternating electric field like that required by, for instance, Wien effect and Debye-Falkenhagen effect?--188.27.144.144 (talk) 13:25, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One could remark also the existence of the wikiarticle aneutronic fusion, but not aneutronic fission.--188.27.144.144 (talk) 13:28, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Labs visited

Prof Josephson, you have mentioned somewhere having visited some labs with experimental CF results reported. Could you specify some of the labs?--5.15.62.129 (talk) 11:00, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Right. As far as I can recall there were 4 scientific labs, visited while I was in the area concerned:

Mitchell Swartz's lab in the Boston area. He has his device inside a metal box and uses temperature rise to measure heat generated, with ordinary resistive heating in an identical box for calibration.
Thomas Claytor's lab near Los Alamos (while this was funded by NSF the work was done in LANL itself). He measures tritium generation, verifying it is tritium by (a) the spectrum (b) the decay rate. See http://institute.lanl.gov/ei/LADSS/lecturers/2006/Thomas%20Claytor.pdf for his biography.
X.Z. Li's lab at Tsinghua University in Beijing.
Francesco Celani at INFN (Italy's National Institute of Nuclear Physics), Frascati. Celani has made his samples available to people so that they can attempt replications. Here is a lecture given by Celani at CERN.

Of these, only Claytor attempts to detect nuclear processes directly, the other people detecting only excess heat. Besides these I have been a consultant for a UK firm, who moved to Europe to get a more supportive environment. Their results were replicated by a group at York University using samples that they provided. Their heat measurement process, based on the temperature rise of water flowing past their device, has been verified by the UK's National Physical Laboratory.--Brian Josephson (talk) 15:51, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

About Francesco Celani, is it possible he might be somehow also connected to the E-Cat tests? I remember some comments posted on E-Cat talk page 2 years ago by an IP who said : ″It′s me, Francesco″. Or perhaps other Francesco (Scaramuzzi?) was involved?--5.15.203.84 (talk) 18:36, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A search on the talk archives shows that this was a reference to a Forbes article re one of the e-cat demos, posted by Celani. The 'it's me, Francesco' is there because he was not logged in when he posted the reference first so added that info later. His connection is just that of being interested. In fact he was st the first demo and was told to turn off his spectrum analyser! --Brian Josephson (talk) 18:46, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

″By whom (it was told)?″ is a natural question following in this context.--5.15.187.19 (talk) 20:21, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By Rossi himself. Speculation has it that gamma rays are part of the secret process and knowing the spectrum might have given clues as to what this process was. --Brian Josephson (talk) 20:42, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I thought that the neutron spectrum analyser was involved somehow. I've talked to someone who has measured neutron emission, from here the supposition that perhaps someone other Rossi requested the turning off in a conspiracy style.--5.15.49.211 (talk) 21:20, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Awareness to the scientific method

Prof Josephson, how do you consider, based on your experience, the state of awareness (or its insufficiency) to the subtleties of the scientific method among average scientists?--5.15.177.124 (talk) 15:05, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Briefly, I'd say most scientists are probably well trained in the scientific method. But on controversial issues there is a lot of groupthink, and there is the sometimes unwarranted assumption that if the majority of scientists believe X then X is the case. As I say on my home page, my motto is 'take nobody's word for it'. This extends to people who advocate controversial issues that I view positively as well -- I consider their claims carefully and on occasion point to flaws. --Brian Josephson (talk) 15:15, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is somehow groupthink involved in the reaching of scientific consensus in controversial topics?--5.15.53.77 (talk) 10:30, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Another question appears in this context: what is the exact relation between the existence of scientific controversies and awareness of scientists to the scientific method?--5.15.53.77 (talk) 11:46, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that subtle deviation from the scientific method manifests itself sometimes especially at a collective level by the propagation of unwarranted assumptions based on majority beliefs. This is a case of majority argument.--5.15.177.124 (talk) 16:19, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Especially in controversial issues the subtleties and strength of the scientific method must be fully acknowledged and come into play when dealing with competing hypotheses. It seems that some scientists are more prone to fallaciously disregard some hypotheses and evidence. This situation is quite manifest in the case of cold fusion for instance applied to Huizenga.--5.15.177.124 (talk) 18:20, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have just noticed the groupthink article which I have linked above. Is there some case study available regarding the groupthink in the scientific community to include in the article to Case studies section?--5.15.37.249 (talk) 18:44, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding groupthink involvement in the reasoning about CF I′ve noticed the following blog which states (just above - An alternative - section): ″To some extent, both skeptics and believers are victims of Groupthink, dualistic thinking and thinking small.″--5.15.21.138 (talk) 10:41, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the case of wikipedia I get the feeling that it is not just groupthink that is involved, but also something not unrelated to the 'rule by roving gangs' that I quote above in the section The World is Watching. I may write more on this subject when I have the time.--Brian Josephson (talk) 11:50, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure you'll find it a rewarding exercise hunting for something suitable yourself! ;-) --Brian Josephson (talk) 18:55, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

However, you might find it worth listening to the lecture I have suggested for the memory of water page (see section near the bottom of the talk page for that article, currently awaiting an excuse from the cabal for it not to be included as a reference :-) ). --Brian Josephson (talk) 12:40, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it is worth listening.(I′ve had some problem with the player and could not write this feedback sooner).--5.15.185.254 (talk) 21:04, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Statement about the scientific method

I′ve noticed recently a book by F. Woodbridge Constant ″Fundamental Principles of Physics″ which is one of the fewest to unique from what I′ve encountered to contain an explicit reference to the scientific method (approximate quotation from memory): It would be better to say that there is not a scientific method but (4) key ingredients that account for the success of the scientific procedure: experiments, unbiased judgements, the noticing of surprising events that occur fortuitously and ability to correlate various facts from different subfields of science.--5.15.0.43 (talk) 11:01, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Neutron-involving CF models

Prof Josephson, from the diversity of proposed models regarding CF how do you consider the status/plausibility of models involving neutron role in CF, like Widom Larsen or Kozima′s Trapped Neutron Catalyzed Fusion which assume the existence of trapped neutrons in certain solids originating from background neutrons?--5.15.37.249 (talk) 21:04, 10 November 2013 (UTC) ...in regard to their predictive or explanatory power?--5.15.51.242 (talk) 12:27, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've not been following theories of CF in detail, readers of this page please note! --Brian Josephson (talk) 12:34, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Religious aspect to editing

When I read this article: 'The supreme court is hearing arguments that Obamacare violates company owners' religious freedom. It's a bogus claim' from today's paper, describing how fundmentalists in the US are trying to control how employees can use their healthcare benefit, the thought that ran through my mind was how similar this is to what is liable to happen on wikipedia. Should one infer that belief in the nonexistence of the paranormal, water memory, etc. can be of a religious character, and that some edits on w'pedia get reverted or disputed because they are experienced in a similar way to the way an attack on a person's religion would (that's a change from the 'teenage gang' theory that some have espoused)? --Brian Josephson (talk) 21:12, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly some fundamentalism is involved in the denial of some topics. The religious denial of some concepts is not new, but it was considered stronger some centuries ago like in the debate over heliocentrism and geocentrism, for instance.--5.15.49.211 (talk) 21:47, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Continued discussion from CF talk

Here seems an appropriate place considering the context for continuing a discussion from cold fusion involving tangentially cosmic harmony and its (religious) ideatic background. The following excerpts are useful pointers:

Perhaps this discussion should be continued elsewhere or the cabal will become restless ;-) I just wanted to make the point though that surely Newton at least was aware that hyperbolic orbits were equally in conformance with his laws? --Brian Josephson (talk) 12:17, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Of course the discussion could be continued elsewhere to prevent allegations of irrelevance. I was trying last night to post something similar on your talk page, but the content has at some moment suddenly disappeared. I′ve posted a rephrased version of the lost content here this morning.--5.15.197.78 (talk) 12:41, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

continued discussion:

Concerning Newton′s laws and trajectories/orbits involved it seems curious that Roger Cotes contributions regarding spiral trajectories and their connection to an inverse cube term in force law expression seem to overlooked in some textbooks.

This discussion about force laws could also be relevant for cold fusion considering the usual objection to the fusion of deuterons in CF different from the thermonuclear standard version namely that usual forces assumed to be involved are not enough to bring the deuterons close enough to fuse in condensed matter fusion.--5.15.34.105 (talk) 13:36, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback from the founder of Wikipedia

Concerning the persistent tendentious editings due (partially) to the lack of WP:Competence, what reaction do you anticipate that Jim Wales would have if you notify him on his talk page about the situation where technical understanding is required in assessing RS status for some wikiarticles, understanding that seems to be lacking to some editors who persistently interfere by denying RS status to some sources?--5.15.177.249 (talk) 14:41, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is said that he is not keen on 'experts' himself.--Brian Josephson (talk) 16:20, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He may be not very fond of experts (a subjective factor), but the issue of RS denial due to lack of technical understanding is a very serious aspect that can affect Wikipedia. I posted some thoughts on WP:CIR talk page and I intend to probe his view/reasoning on the issue by posting something on his talkpage.--5.15.198.179 (talk) 11:06, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Defkalion status

Professor Josephson, what are latest news/info that you are aware about the (trial/commercial) status of Defkalion devices?--5.15.177.249 (talk) 14:53, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No recent information. I guess perfecting a device to the level where it can be sold to people takes time. Also safety people need to be satisfied your device is safe, and of course since nuclear reactions are involved that can be more difficult. But you may well have a radioactive device in your home. --Brian Josephson (talk) 16:21, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the broader context of recent discussions regarding among other conference articles I have noticed this conference article about Defkalion PIM 2013.--5.15.7.8 (talk) 10:45, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. John (Yiannis) H., one of the authors, is the chief experimental officer of Defkalion. Of course, since this conference includes an invited or plenary paper on cold fusion it cannot be a RS as we know [wink], even though the Proceedings were published by the American Institute of Physics. --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:55, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your thanks and I'll continue to bring info/facts to your attention.--5.15.54.28 (talk) 11:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Of course that is something some people would want to th(w)ink based on begging the question error, but the conference was not an exclusive CF conference but on the broader topic of processes in isotopes and molecules. Therefore it can have relevant aspects/papers that can be included in the mentioned domain.--5.15.54.28 (talk) 11:18, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Another bringing to your attention of a conference: The 14th Meeting of Japan CF-Research Society JCF14 ABSTRACTS, December 7-8, 2013, Tokyo Institute of Technology. (Perhaps you were aware of this conference). At this conference the previous mentioned Kozima will present some papers. It has been brought to my attention by the co-author of Yiannis at PIM. I′ll exchange some emails with H. Kozima in the following days on his hypothesis concerning the trapped neutron in solids and possible generation mechanisms.--5.15.30.52 (talk) 21:14, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard of that, but that is an exclusively CF conference of course. National Instruments in the US has organised some meetings, I believe -- they have connections with Rossi. But I don't have time to take up such issues in the CF/Rossi reactor pages. --Brian Josephson (talk) 21:18, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Explanatory theory vs experimental facts

I open here a new thread/section regarding the very important issue described in the title. I notice a POV that disconsider facts due to lack of explanatory theory. This brings up very important epistemologic issues connected to the scientific method. Please share your thoughts.--5.15.54.28 (talk) 12:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Let's wait and see what user Jojalozzo has to say in answer to my question. That should be very interesting. --Brian Josephson (talk) 14:51, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The answer is rather trivial. It appeals to the necessity to use secondary sources.--5.15.30.52 (talk) 19:52, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that he should have said something so obviously wrong in the first place bears out the idea that our critical editors are driven mainly by the wish to disrupt, and don't bother to consider very much whether their objections make sense or not. But no doubt this was 'just an accident'. --Brian Josephson (talk) 20:15, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This POV that disregards facts has some similarity to Huizenga-like reasoning style.--5.15.54.28 (talk) 12:05, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A quote from Edmund Storms very relevant to the perception of cold fusion and denial of experimental facts:

″People reach conclusions about cold fusion without any knowledge of what is known about the subject or even what is accepted in conventional science. I can understand why conventional scientists think the people who believe CF is real are deluded. If I had not studied what is known and seen the effect myself, I would be one of them″ (from CMNS group).

Perhaps this could be posted on CF talk page.--5.15.41.17 (talk) 13:59, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A quote by Gell-Mann on the alleged theoretical impossibility of CF occurrence and criteria_of_acceptance_for_a_cold_fusion_theory - lecture in the Portland State University in 1998: (from PowerPedia)

“It's a bunch of baloney. Cold Fusion is theoretically impossible, and there are no experimental findings that indicate it exists?(ref7) .--5.15.41.17 (talk) 14:15, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 531: / Line 531: @@
 Perhaps this could be posted on CF talk page.--[[Special:Contributions/5.15.41.17|5.15.41.17]] ([[User talk:5.15.41.17|talk]]) 13:59, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
+A quote by Gell-Mann on the alleged theoretical impossibility of CF occurrence and criteria_of_acceptance_for_a_cold_fusion_theory - lecture in the Portland State University in 1998: (from [http://peswiki.com/index.php/Don_Borghi%27s_experiment#Criterion_of_acceptance_for_a_cold_fusion_theory PowerPedia])
+“It's a bunch of baloney. Cold Fusion is theoretically impossible, and there are no experimental findings that indicate it exists?(ref7) .--[[Special:Contributions/5.15.41.17|5.15.41.17]] ([[User talk:5.15.41.17|talk]]) 14:15, 2 December 2013 (UTC)